[LUTE] Re: Lubricating string ends/bridge holes?
Thanks again to everyone who responded, even Martin and Matthew, who seem to mistake me for someone who can be trusted with sharp objects. I widened the holes that needed it, and in the process discovered a really good local tool store that had an assortment of small drill bits. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] FundraiseRe: recording of music of Jean Paul Paladin by Alex McCartney
The English lutenist Alex McCartney is foundraising a CD of of music by the Italian/French composer Jean Paul Paladin (c.1500-1565). Alex has already recorded two CDs, one of music of René Mésangeau (fl 1567-1638) and one of Elizabethan music for lute. The perks for the supporters are quite good - e.g. for £20 you get a copy of the new CD plus the two previous ones. As of today,the amount raised is £1676 of £2000. âYou may want consider supporting this project: [1]http://alexmccartney.co.uk/paladin/ Matteo -- References 1. http://alexmccartney.co.uk/paladin/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Redrilling bridge holes for high action, was Lubricating string ends/bridge holes?
I apologize for the multiple posts earlier on, my internet provider has been playing tricks on me! Best, Matthew To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Redrilling bridge holes for high action, was Lubricating string ends/bridge holes?
Dear Martin and others, And also, of course, if one wishes to wholly preserve the rib and neck depths, the following procedure - but an even bigger, albeit more thorough, job than that you well outline below: Remove belly, fingerboard and neck; Take out the nail(s) in the top block ( easier said than done); Decrease the neck angle slightly by taking off small amounts (shavings) from the bottom of the neck or top block (I used a small single hand held block plane on the top block - careful not to chip off any end grain rib). Constantly check untill the lift is decreased to what you wish. Reglue neck (may need to make new nail holes if the change is large), reglue belly, reglue fingerboard. I've done this a few times - it requires patience and perseverance - and is not something I every look forward to. MH PS I once widened bridge string holes, where only a very modest increase was required, by heating a sewing needle, holding it with good sturdy pliers and burning through. Obviously placing a thick cloth over the belly to avoid accidental burns!... One could also, I suppose, use a very fine fret saw blade and gently saw all the way round to widen - perhaps finishing with a very fine needle file. __ From: Martin Shepherd To: Lute List Sent: Saturday, 30 June 2018, 11:33 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Redrilling bridge holes for high action, was Lubricating string ends/bridge holes? Matthew is right, redrilling the bridge holes is not a sensible way to lower the action (unless of course the bridge is ridiculously high to start with, in which case you really need the services of a lutemaker anyway). Matthew mentions the two main methods for lowering the action - planing down the fingerboard, and cutting down the body. It is also possible to remove the fingerboard and plane some wood off the neck, but all of these things are difficult for an experienced lutemaker never mind anyone else. I hadn't noticed the question about action - my suggestion was only for enlarging holes when they're too small. Martin --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. [1]https://www.avast.com/antivirus To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://www.avast.com/antivirus 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Redrilling bridge holes for high action, was Lubricating string ends/bridge holes?
Matthew is right, redrilling the bridge holes is not a sensible way to lower the action (unless of course the bridge is ridiculously high to start with, in which case you really need the services of a lutemaker anyway). Matthew mentions the two main methods for lowering the action - planing down the fingerboard, and cutting down the body. It is also possible to remove the fingerboard and plane some wood off the neck, but all of these things are difficult for an experienced lutemaker never mind anyone else. I hadn't noticed the question about action - my suggestion was only for enlarging holes when they're too small. Martin --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Redrilling bridge holes for high action, was Lubricating string ends/bridge holes?
That is a bit of a specialist job and even lute makers tend to hate doing it (although it can be done). Unless the present holes are particularly high, you probably wouldn't gain much anyway and you might encounter the problem afterwards of the strings being too close to the soundboard for comfort (you are effectively loosing the benefit of whatever dishing there is). An over high action (measured from the fingerboard to the underside of the top string at the 8th fret) can be adjusted either by planing down the fingerboard if the luthier made it thick enough, (best case scenario) or by taking the top off and removing wood from the ribs (expensive business). If the action is really high you might even be talking about having to reset the neck. If you only need very minor gains then you could try retying the strings and use more windings around the bridge, pushing the strings down gently as you tune them up so that they lie lower. Best, Matthew Has anyone ever tried re-drilling the holes to lower the action? How might one do that without removing the bridge? A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. On Jun 29, 2018, at 12:37 PM, guy_and_liz Smith <[1]guy_and_...@msn.com> wrote: I enlarged a couple of bridge holes on my old Larry Brown, which was apparently drilled for relatively thin wound basses and couldn't accommodate larger gut strings. I used what's called a pin vise to hold the drill (standard item in machine shops), with some tape on the top to protect it from the vise. Then just gently spin the pin vise with your fingers to drill out the hole. The main trick is finding a vice that's skinny enough to handle the spacing between hole and top. Here's one example of a pin vise: [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.c om_Starrett-2D162A-2DVise-2D0-2D0-2D040-2DRange_dp_B06Y5SG9LD_ref-3D sr-5F1-5F6-3Fs-3Dhi-26ie-3DUTF8-26qid-3D1530300625-26sr-3D1-2D6-26ke ywords-3Dpin-2Bvise=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuK y6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=o18tltRbhed6j CjqKxpJAhCot28OtiG0dJ2bafjczwY=VkMbfG1-1rjLpHg35Z1_NPV0P7ozNZteRfj QLWQdI3Q= Guy -Original Message- From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[4]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Daillie Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 11:50 AM To: lutelist Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lubricating string ends/bridge holes? Hi Howard, Even in relatively dry climates gut somehow manages to absorb humidity and swell over time. Personally I would try to avoid lubricating the strings. Have you tried cutting the end at an angle to slip it through? You could probably also gently sand the last 5 mm or so of the end of the string with some very fine emery paper without the risk of fraying or weakening. Enlarging the bridge holes can be very straight forward with the appropriate tools (I can send you a photo of the tools I use if you're interested). Best, Matthew On 29/06/2018 19:14, howard posner wrote: I reconfigure the stringing on my archlute from time to time, which involves moving some extension strings so that, e.g. the 8th course becomes the 12th for one stringing B, then gets moved back for stringing A. I now find that couple of gut extension strings won't fit through bridge holes that they always fit through before. I tried blow-drying the string ends, on the assumption that they had swelled with humidity (not a sound assumption where I live), without success. So now, if I don't want to string the whole instrument lighter, it seems I have two options: widening the bridge holes or lubricating the string ends. I'd like to try lubricating first. Does anyone have experience with string lube jobs? What do you use? To get on or off this list see list information at [5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur03.safeli nks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-3A-252F-252Fwww.cs.dartmout h.edu-252F-7Ewbc-252Flute-2Dadmin-252Findex.html-26data-3D02-257C01- 257C-257C1c0cd246441345bb1e8408d5ddf13779-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa aa-257C1-257C0-257C636658950444650467-26sdata-3DkNJclNqJmJgD eC5C5VeNawW0K5F7LzF-252FTJcgosQSnHQ-253D-26reserved-3D0=DwIFaQ=l 45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvx MmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=o18tltRbhed6jCjqKxpJAhCot28OtiG0dJ2bafjczwY =jBrUoVSMUtmITLVDRIEt0FwUXuBrRJuRD8BNz-sI1r4= --- Cet email a fait l'objet d'une analyse antivirus par AVG. [6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur03.safeli nks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.avg.com-2
[LUTE] Re: Redrilling bridge holes for high action, was Lubricating string ends/bridge holes?
That is a bit of a specialist job and even lute makers tend to hate doing it (although it can be done). Unless the present holes are particularly high, you probably wouldn't gain much anyway and you might encounter the problem afterwards of the strings being too close to the soundboard for comfort (you are effectively loosing the benefit of whatever dishing there is). An over high action (measured from the fingerboard to the underside of the top string at the 8th fret) can be adjusted either by planing down the fingerboard if the luthier made it thick enough, (best case scenario) or by taking the top off and removing wood from the ribs (expensive business). If the action is really high you might even be talking about having to reset the neck. If you only need very minor gains then you could try retying the strings and use more windings around the bridge, pushing the strings down gently as you tune them up so that they lie lower. Best, Matthew Has anyone ever tried re-drilling the holes to lower the action? How might one do that without removing the bridge? A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. On Jun 29, 2018, at 12:37 PM, guy_and_liz Smith <[1]guy_and_...@msn.com> wrote: I enlarged a couple of bridge holes on my old Larry Brown, which was apparently drilled for relatively thin wound basses and couldn't accommodate larger gut strings. I used what's called a pin vise to hold the drill (standard item in machine shops), with some tape on the top to protect it from the vise. Then just gently spin the pin vise with your fingers to drill out the hole. The main trick is finding a vice that's skinny enough to handle the spacing between hole and top. Here's one example of a pin vise: [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.c om_Starrett-2D162A-2DVise-2D0-2D0-2D040-2DRange_dp_B06Y5SG9LD_ref-3D sr-5F1-5F6-3Fs-3Dhi-26ie-3DUTF8-26qid-3D1530300625-26sr-3D1-2D6-26ke ywords-3Dpin-2Bvise=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuK y6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=o18tltRbhed6j CjqKxpJAhCot28OtiG0dJ2bafjczwY=VkMbfG1-1rjLpHg35Z1_NPV0P7ozNZteRfj QLWQdI3Q= Guy -Original Message- From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[4]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Daillie Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 11:50 AM To: lutelist Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lubricating string ends/bridge holes? Hi Howard, Even in relatively dry climates gut somehow manages to absorb humidity and swell over time. Personally I would try to avoid lubricating the strings. Have you tried cutting the end at an angle to slip it through? You could probably also gently sand the last 5 mm or so of the end of the string with some very fine emery paper without the risk of fraying or weakening. Enlarging the bridge holes can be very straight forward with the appropriate tools (I can send you a photo of the tools I use if you're interested). Best, Matthew On 29/06/2018 19:14, howard posner wrote: I reconfigure the stringing on my archlute from time to time, which involves moving some extension strings so that, e.g. the 8th course becomes the 12th for one stringing B, then gets moved back for stringing A. I now find that couple of gut extension strings won't fit through bridge holes that they always fit through before. I tried blow-drying the string ends, on the assumption that they had swelled with humidity (not a sound assumption where I live), without success. So now, if I don't want to string the whole instrument lighter, it seems I have two options: widening the bridge holes or lubricating the string ends. I'd like to try lubricating first. Does anyone have experience with string lube jobs? What do you use? To get on or off this list see list information at [5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur03.safeli nks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-3A-252F-252Fwww.cs.dartmout h.edu-252F-7Ewbc-252Flute-2Dadmin-252Findex.html-26data-3D02-257C01- 257C-257C1c0cd246441345bb1e8408d5ddf13779-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa aa-257C1-257C0-257C636658950444650467-26sdata-3DkNJclNqJmJgD eC5C5VeNawW0K5F7LzF-252FTJcgosQSnHQ-253D-26reserved-3D0=DwIFaQ=l 45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvx MmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=o18tltRbhed6jCjqKxpJAhCot28OtiG0dJ2bafjczwY =jBrUoVSMUtmITLVDRIEt0FwUXuBrRJuRD8BNz-sI1r4= --- Cet email a fait l'objet d'une analyse antivirus par AVG. [6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur03.safeli nks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.avg.com-2
[LUTE] Re: Redrilling bridge holes for high action, was Lubricating string ends/bridge holes?
That is a bit of a specialist job and even lute makers tend to hate doing it (although it can be done). Unless the present holes are particularly high, you probably wouldn't gain much anyway and you might encounter the problem afterwards of the strings being too close to the soundboard for comfort (you are effectively loosing the benefit of whatever dishing there is). An over high action (measured from the fingerboard to the underside of the top string at the 8th fret) can be adjusted either by planing down the fingerboard if the luthier made it thick enough, (best case scenario) or by taking the top off and removing wood from the ribs (expensive business). If the action is really high you might even be talking about having to reset the neck. If you only need very minor gains then you could try retying the strings and use more windings around the bridge, pushing the strings down gently as you tune them up so that they lie lower. Best, Matthew Has anyone ever tried re-drilling the holes to lower the action? How might one do that without removing the bridge? A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. On Jun 29, 2018, at 12:37 PM, guy_and_liz Smith <[1]guy_and_...@msn.com> wrote: I enlarged a couple of bridge holes on my old Larry Brown, which was apparently drilled for relatively thin wound basses and couldn't accommodate larger gut strings. I used what's called a pin vise to hold the drill (standard item in machine shops), with some tape on the top to protect it from the vise. Then just gently spin the pin vise with your fingers to drill out the hole. The main trick is finding a vice that's skinny enough to handle the spacing between hole and top. Here's one example of a pin vise: [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.c om_Starrett-2D162A-2DVise-2D0-2D0-2D040-2DRange_dp_B06Y5SG9LD_ref-3D sr-5F1-5F6-3Fs-3Dhi-26ie-3DUTF8-26qid-3D1530300625-26sr-3D1-2D6-26ke ywords-3Dpin-2Bvise=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuK y6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=o18tltRbhed6j CjqKxpJAhCot28OtiG0dJ2bafjczwY=VkMbfG1-1rjLpHg35Z1_NPV0P7ozNZteRfj QLWQdI3Q= Guy -Original Message- From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[4]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Daillie Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 11:50 AM To: lutelist Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lubricating string ends/bridge holes? Hi Howard, Even in relatively dry climates gut somehow manages to absorb humidity and swell over time. Personally I would try to avoid lubricating the strings. Have you tried cutting the end at an angle to slip it through? You could probably also gently sand the last 5 mm or so of the end of the string with some very fine emery paper without the risk of fraying or weakening. Enlarging the bridge holes can be very straight forward with the appropriate tools (I can send you a photo of the tools I use if you're interested). Best, Matthew On 29/06/2018 19:14, howard posner wrote: I reconfigure the stringing on my archlute from time to time, which involves moving some extension strings so that, e.g. the 8th course becomes the 12th for one stringing B, then gets moved back for stringing A. I now find that couple of gut extension strings won't fit through bridge holes that they always fit through before. I tried blow-drying the string ends, on the assumption that they had swelled with humidity (not a sound assumption where I live), without success. So now, if I don't want to string the whole instrument lighter, it seems I have two options: widening the bridge holes or lubricating the string ends. I'd like to try lubricating first. Does anyone have experience with string lube jobs? What do you use? To get on or off this list see list information at [5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur03.safeli nks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-3A-252F-252Fwww.cs.dartmout h.edu-252F-7Ewbc-252Flute-2Dadmin-252Findex.html-26data-3D02-257C01- 257C-257C1c0cd246441345bb1e8408d5ddf13779-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa aa-257C1-257C0-257C636658950444650467-26sdata-3DkNJclNqJmJgD eC5C5VeNawW0K5F7LzF-252FTJcgosQSnHQ-253D-26reserved-3D0=DwIFaQ=l 45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvx MmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=o18tltRbhed6jCjqKxpJAhCot28OtiG0dJ2bafjczwY =jBrUoVSMUtmITLVDRIEt0FwUXuBrRJuRD8BNz-sI1r4= --- Cet email a fait l'objet d'une analyse antivirus par AVG. [6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur03.safeli nks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.avg.com-2
[LUTE] Re: Redrilling bridge holes for high action, was Lubricating string ends/bridge holes?
That is a bit of a specialist job and even lute makers tend to hate doing it (although it can be done). Unless the present holes are particularly high, you probably wouldn't gain much anyway and you might encounter the problem afterwards of the strings being too close to the soundboard for comfort (you are effectively loosing the benefit of whatever dishing there is). An over high action (measured from the fingerboard to the underside of the top string at the 8th fret) can be adjusted either by planing down the fingerboard if the luthier made it thick enough, (best case scenario) or by taking the top off and removing wood from the ribs (expensive business). If the action is really high you might even be talking about having to reset the neck. If you only need very minor gains then you could try retying the strings and use more windings around the bridge, pushing the strings down gently as you tune them up so that they lie lower. Best, Matthew Has anyone ever tried re-drilling the holes to lower the action? How might one do that without removing the bridge? A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. On Jun 29, 2018, at 12:37 PM, guy_and_liz Smith <[1]guy_and_...@msn.com> wrote: I enlarged a couple of bridge holes on my old Larry Brown, which was apparently drilled for relatively thin wound basses and couldn't accommodate larger gut strings. I used what's called a pin vise to hold the drill (standard item in machine shops), with some tape on the top to protect it from the vise. Then just gently spin the pin vise with your fingers to drill out the hole. The main trick is finding a vice that's skinny enough to handle the spacing between hole and top. Here's one example of a pin vise: [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.c om_Starrett-2D162A-2DVise-2D0-2D0-2D040-2DRange_dp_B06Y5SG9LD_ref-3D sr-5F1-5F6-3Fs-3Dhi-26ie-3DUTF8-26qid-3D1530300625-26sr-3D1-2D6-26ke ywords-3Dpin-2Bvise=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuK y6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=o18tltRbhed6j CjqKxpJAhCot28OtiG0dJ2bafjczwY=VkMbfG1-1rjLpHg35Z1_NPV0P7ozNZteRfj QLWQdI3Q= Guy -Original Message- From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[4]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Daillie Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 11:50 AM To: lutelist Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lubricating string ends/bridge holes? Hi Howard, Even in relatively dry climates gut somehow manages to absorb humidity and swell over time. Personally I would try to avoid lubricating the strings. Have you tried cutting the end at an angle to slip it through? You could probably also gently sand the last 5 mm or so of the end of the string with some very fine emery paper without the risk of fraying or weakening. Enlarging the bridge holes can be very straight forward with the appropriate tools (I can send you a photo of the tools I use if you're interested). Best, Matthew On 29/06/2018 19:14, howard posner wrote: I reconfigure the stringing on my archlute from time to time, which involves moving some extension strings so that, e.g. the 8th course becomes the 12th for one stringing B, then gets moved back for stringing A. I now find that couple of gut extension strings won't fit through bridge holes that they always fit through before. I tried blow-drying the string ends, on the assumption that they had swelled with humidity (not a sound assumption where I live), without success. So now, if I don't want to string the whole instrument lighter, it seems I have two options: widening the bridge holes or lubricating the string ends. I'd like to try lubricating first. Does anyone have experience with string lube jobs? What do you use? To get on or off this list see list information at [5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur03.safeli nks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-3A-252F-252Fwww.cs.dartmout h.edu-252F-7Ewbc-252Flute-2Dadmin-252Findex.html-26data-3D02-257C01- 257C-257C1c0cd246441345bb1e8408d5ddf13779-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa aa-257C1-257C0-257C636658950444650467-26sdata-3DkNJclNqJmJgD eC5C5VeNawW0K5F7LzF-252FTJcgosQSnHQ-253D-26reserved-3D0=DwIFaQ=l 45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvx MmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=o18tltRbhed6jCjqKxpJAhCot28OtiG0dJ2bafjczwY =jBrUoVSMUtmITLVDRIEt0FwUXuBrRJuRD8BNz-sI1r4= --- Cet email a fait l'objet d'une analyse antivirus par AVG. [6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur03.safeli nks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.avg.com-2
