[LUTE] Re: Island Poll
Alright, I'll play, deliberately selecting for significance (within my own relatively narrow experience) and diversity (of style, tempo, place of origin, etc.): - Dowland's fantasia P73 (represents the English camp and some historic significance of an early punteado tremolo effect) - Narvaez's setting of Mille Regretz (intabulation was such an important aspect of music making, and I'm a sucker for melancholy) - Capirola's Ricercare Septimo (to represent early Italian efforts at instrumental abstraction and a linear/melodic approach to lute virtuosity) Best, Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu On Behalf Of Tristan von Neumann Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2019 2:52 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Island Poll It's polll time: The island question! Take three Renaissance lute pieces with you - which ones would you pick? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: bandora question
The music Harwood was probably thinking of was the solos in Dd.2.11. Aside from the difficulties for the left hand, another factor to consider is how it sounds. My experience is that some music works on the D bandors we have now if you don't play too fast and it they have most of the faster notes of the higher pitched strings. Fast running notes sound a bit off to me at the lower pitches. There are a couple of things that support the idea of smaller bandoras - in Harwood's booklet published by the English Lute Society he talks about the probability that what we call the Rose orpharion, was a bandora since there is lettering around the sides saying it is. That instrument if it were tuned like an orpharion would probably be turned to G. The second idea that supports a "tenor" bandora is the one about the Morley/Holmes consort lessons be designed for a higher pitch, so that the tenor part does not end up need a recorder or flute that is so big as to be unrealistic, or be played an octave higher than the notation. Nancy What is the current thinking on Ian Harwood's closing remarks on the bandora in New Grove? "...the technique required in the solo music is considerable, involving some extreme stretches for the left hand. It seems likely that such music would have been played on the smaller, high-pitched instruments, as much of it is virtually unplayable on bandoras of the sizes described and measured by Praetorius and Talbot." Harwood argues for the existence of a smaller bandora with a top course at D rather than A. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Nancy Carlin Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org PO Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA 925 / 686-5800 www.groundsanddivisions.info www.nancycarlinassociates.com
[LUTE] Island Poll
It's polll time: The island question! Take three Renaissance lute pieces with you - which ones would you pick? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: bandora question
In case this may be of interest to you, Stuart: I just chanced yesterday on a piece by Tobias Hume for a treble viol tuned as a bandora - it's in the First part of Ayres, item 108: Deep throughts revived, "A lesson for the lyra viol with two treble viols, or two basses with one treble, tuned as the bandora". There is also a tuning in the Manchester lyra viol book of the 1660s 'lyra way bandora sette' but it looks the same as only the top four courses of the bandora. (and probably with a top D) There is definitely some sort of connection with viols and bandoras...the baroque baryton Granted "tuned as the bandora" might only refer to the intervals between courses, not pitch ... BTW, does anyone know of a better quality PDF copy of that book besides the one on IMLSP, that has a lot of see through...? Alain On 11/19/19 5:57 AM, WALSH STUART wrote: What is the current thinking on Ian Harwood's closing remarks on the bandora in New Grove? "...the technique required in the solo music is considerable, involving some extreme stretches for the left hand. It seems likely that such music would have been played on the smaller, high-pitched instruments, as much of it is virtually unplayable on bandoras of the sizes described and measured by Praetorius and Talbot." Harwood argues for the existence of a smaller bandora with a top course at D rather than A. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: historically accurate concerts
I feel the same - that's why I like to play casually, not in a concert situation. You should try this at a dinner party. Pack your tabs and just play random pieces. :) On 19.11.19 17:28, Leonard Williams wrote: � �Your party experience sounds like the ideal venue for me--I freeze and stumble in a spotlight; background music is much less demanding for me �psychologically. Regards, Leonard Williams -Original Message- From: Tristan von Neumann [1] To: [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu [3] Sent: Mon, Nov 18, 2019 8:56 am Subject: [LUTE] historically accurate concerts Here's one thought: Lute concerts are often given in large halls or churches, though they are not really attracting a huge crowd. Huge crowds are also not really the setting in which lutenists florished back then. Recently, I had been invited to play the lute at a 30something birthday party on saturday night, a crowd of about 40 people max. Not one of the guests had probably ever heard Renaissance music. The host assured me that he wanted this and would deny any requests for other music from the stereo. It was a two bedroom late 1800s apartment with 11.5 ft./3.50m ceilings and all doors were open, I played in a 215 sqft/20 m � room where I sat on a chair in the corner at a table lit with a lamp. So I played straight from my 500+ p. book (message me if you are interested in my selection), for about 8 hours (it actually felt more like two). There was no programme, I just selected pieces on the fly according to "room temperature". There were sight-reading glitches, but no one noticed or cared. The reactions were very positive and no one complained about the music though most of the people normally listened to house, electro and other non-early musical styles. The music was described as: * never annoying * with a huge range of emotions * very pleasant for conversation * very interesting to listen to if you care to come close * filling the whole apartment (!) This was probably a setting more historically accurate than listening to French chanson intabulations in a church. The acoustics were perfect for a full and clear sound. I found this house concert situation very pleasing. You need to say goodbye to silence though. But having conversations to lute music is a whole other experience, as is playing lute for people not consciously listening most of the time. You end up with two or three people sitting closer and listening, the rest enjoying the atmosphere. I would highly recommend this experience. What are your experiences with house concerts? Has anyone ever played in the background? To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: bandora question
On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 at 17:33, Alain Veylit <[1]al...@musickshandmade.com> wrote: In case this may be of interest to you, Stuart: I just chanced yesterday on a piece by Tobias Hume for a treble [...] BTW, does anyone know of a better quality PDF copy of that book besides the one on IMLSP, that has a lot of see through...? I thought Scolar Press had a good facsimile. David Alain On 11/19/19 5:57 AM, WALSH STUART wrote: What is the current thinking on Ian Harwood's closing remarks on the bandora in New Grove? "...the technique required in the solo music is considerable, involving some extreme stretches for the left hand. It seems likely that such music would have been played on the smaller, high-pitched instruments, as much of it is virtually unplayable on bandoras of the sizes described and measured by Praetorius and Talbot." Harwood argues for the existence of a smaller bandora with a top course at D rather than A. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1][2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- *** David van Ooijen [4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [5]https://davidvanooijen.wordpress.com *** -- References 1. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 5. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
[LUTE] Re: historically accurate concerts
Your party experience sounds like the ideal venue for me--I freeze and stumble in a spotlight; background music is much less demanding for me psychologically. Regards, Leonard Williams -Original Message- From: Tristan von Neumann To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, Nov 18, 2019 8:56 am Subject: [LUTE] historically accurate concerts Here's one thought: Lute concerts are often given in large halls or churches, though they are not really attracting a huge crowd. Huge crowds are also not really the setting in which lutenists florished back then. Recently, I had been invited to play the lute at a 30something birthday party on saturday night, a crowd of about 40 people max. Not one of the guests had probably ever heard Renaissance music. The host assured me that he wanted this and would deny any requests for other music from the stereo. It was a two bedroom late 1800s apartment with 11.5 ft./3.50m ceilings and all doors were open, I played in a 215 sqft/20 m ² room where I sat on a chair in the corner at a table lit with a lamp. So I played straight from my 500+ p. book (message me if you are interested in my selection), for about 8 hours (it actually felt more like two). There was no programme, I just selected pieces on the fly according to "room temperature". There were sight-reading glitches, but no one noticed or cared. The reactions were very positive and no one complained about the music though most of the people normally listened to house, electro and other non-early musical styles. The music was described as: * never annoying * with a huge range of emotions * very pleasant for conversation * very interesting to listen to if you care to come close * filling the whole apartment (!) This was probably a setting more historically accurate than listening to French chanson intabulations in a church. The acoustics were perfect for a full and clear sound. I found this house concert situation very pleasing. You need to say goodbye to silence though. But having conversations to lute music is a whole other experience, as is playing lute for people not consciously listening most of the time. You end up with two or three people sitting closer and listening, the rest enjoying the atmosphere. I would highly recommend this experience. What are your experiences with house concerts? Has anyone ever played in the background? To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: bandora question
In case this may be of interest to you, Stuart: I just chanced yesterday on a piece by Tobias Hume for a treble viol tuned as a bandora - it's in the First part of Ayres, item 108: Deep throughts revived, "A lesson for the lyra viol with two treble viols, or two basses with one treble, tuned as the bandora". Granted "tuned as the bandora" might only refer to the intervals between courses, not pitch ... BTW, does anyone know of a better quality PDF copy of that book besides the one on IMLSP, that has a lot of see through...? Alain On 11/19/19 5:57 AM, WALSH STUART wrote: What is the current thinking on Ian Harwood's closing remarks on the bandora in New Grove? "...the technique required in the solo music is considerable, involving some extreme stretches for the left hand. It seems likely that such music would have been played on the smaller, high-pitched instruments, as much of it is virtually unplayable on bandoras of the sizes described and measured by Praetorius and Talbot." Harwood argues for the existence of a smaller bandora with a top course at D rather than A. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] bandora question
What is the current thinking on Ian Harwood's closing remarks on the bandora in New Grove? "...the technique required in the solo music is considerable, involving some extreme stretches for the left hand. It seems likely that such music would have been played on the smaller, high-pitched instruments, as much of it is virtually unplayable on bandoras of the sizes described and measured by Praetorius and Talbot." Harwood argues for the existence of a smaller bandora with a top course at D rather than A. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: historically accurate concerts
It ´s interesting to read through the years and the sources that the lute is indeed an instrument that has been played for a selected few- as George points out with the Burwell quote- or for more persons as Hans Newsidler described it in 1544: "... wo die Musica und zuvor die Lauten/ so ein kunstreich Instrument ist/ in Collationen bey versamlungen viler personen gepraucht wird/ verendert sich aller menschen gemuet beladen mit schwemuetigkeit/ in freyd/ wollust und ergetzlichkeyt..." Best, Magnus On Monday, November 18, 2019, 7:42:46 PM GMT+1, George Torres wrote: Eight hours? That's a heck of a party! Nevertheless, congratulations Tristan! Peripherally related, and just for kicks and gigglesâ¦the following quotes are from the Burwell lute tutor: "The lute is a noble instrument, not made for debaucheries, ranting or playing in the streets to give serenades to Signora Isabella. âTis a grave and serious music for modest and sober persons, and for the cabinet rather than for a public placeâ¦this instrument requireth silence and a serious attention." "The lute is a closet instrument that will suffer the company of but a few hearers, and such as have a delicate ear, for the pearls are not to be cast before the swine." "To play in taverns, that never happened but to a man in Paris (who was paid for his abuse by some learned of the lute, that made cinnamon beaten in breaking the lute upon his head) " Cheers, Jorge On Nov 18, 2019, at 8:48 AM, Tristan von Neumann <[1][1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote: Here's one thought: Lute concerts are often given in large halls or churches, though they are not really attracting a huge crowd. Huge crowds are also not really the setting in which lutenists florished back then. Recently, I had been invited to play the lute at a 30something birthday party on saturday night, a crowd of about 40 people max. Not one of the guests had probably ever heard Renaissance music. The host assured me that he wanted this and would deny any requests for other music from the stereo. It was a two bedroom late 1800s apartment with 11.5 ft./3.50m ceilings and all doors were open, I played in a 215 sqft/20 m � room where I sat on a chair in the corner at a table lit with a lamp. So I played straight from my 500+ p. book (message me if you are interested in my selection), for about 8 hours (it actually felt more like two). There was no programme, I just selected pieces on the fly according to "room temperature". There were sight-reading glitches, but no one noticed or cared. The reactions were very positive and no one complained about the music though most of the people normally listened to house, electro and other non-early musical styles. The music was described as: * never annoying * with a huge range of emotions * very pleasant for conversation * very interesting to listen to if you care to come close * filling the whole apartment (!) This was probably a setting more historically accurate than listening to French chanson intabulations in a church. The acoustics were perfect for a full and clear sound. I found this house concert situation very pleasing. You need to say goodbye to silence though. But having conversations to lute music is a whole other experience, as is playing lute for people not consciously listening most of the time. You end up with two or three people sitting closer and listening, the rest enjoying the atmosphere. I would highly recommend this experience. What are your experiences with house concerts? Has anyone ever played in the background? To get on or off this list see list information at [2][2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[3]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 2. [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Eugene Dombois Wikipedia page
Hi Ed, I’m a longtime wikipedia editor. Let me help :) Perhaps send the content to me directly? Best, Edward > On 19 Nov 2019, at 10:06 AM, Ed Durbrow wrote: > > Almost a year ago I attempted to make a Wikipedia entry for Eugene > Dombois. This is my first attempt to produce content for Wikipedia and > I don’t know what I’m doing. I could not publish the page and I think > the message was that it needed to be reviewed. I never heard back. > Could we make this a group effort? Or barring that, could anyone offer > help or advice on how to bring this page to fruition? It is a travesty > that he doesn’t have a Wiki entry. > > [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Edurbrow/sandbox > > This page has been deleted. The deletion, protection, and move log for > the page are provided below for reference. > * 12:06, 25 October 2019 [2]Edgar181 [3]talk [4]contribs deleted page > [5]User:Edurbrow/sandbox ([6]G8: Page dependent on a deleted or > nonexistent page) > * 16:16, 1 March 2019 [7]CNMall41 [8]talk [9]contribs moved page > [10]User:Edurbrow/sandbox to [11]Draft:Eugen Müller Dombois > (Preferred location for [12]AfC submissions) > > I have the content in a Pages (OS X) document on my computer. > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > [13]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch > [14]https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow > [15]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > -- > > References > > 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Edurbrow/sandbox > 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Edgar181 > 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Edgar181 > 4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Edgar181 > 5. > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Edurbrow/sandbox=edit=1 > 6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD#G8 > 7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CNMall41 > 8. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:CNMall41 > 9. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/CNMall41 > 10. > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Edurbrow/sandbox=no=edit=1 > 11. > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Eugen_Müller_Dombois=edit=1 > 12. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AFC > 13. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch > 14. https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow > 15. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Tiorbino
> On Nov 17, 2019, at 8:47 AM, yuval.dvo...@posteo.de wrote: > > I was offered a Tiorbino, and I'm wondering what one can do with it (except > of playing Bellerofonte-Castaldi): Are there any proofs that it was used for > playing solo instead of a big theorbo or for playing continuo? Probably no “proofs,” but maybe you’re asking the wrong question. The question I would ask is, “If I owned a tiorbino in 1642, what would I do with it?" Or for present purposes it might be better asked, “If the tiorbino wasn’t used for playing solo theorbo music and wasn’t used for continuo, why would anyone pay good money for one?” Even Bellerofonte Castaldi would have thought it pointless to have an instrument that was useful only for a few duets. I have no idea how many tiorbinos existed in the 17th century, but the idea that someone would have one and not use it for continuo or solo music makes no sense. Anyone who owned a tiorbino would have played solo music and continuo on it, because the alternative was keeping it in a closet 362 days out of the year. It’s not clear to me what you mean by “I was offered a tiorbino,” but if someone wants to give it to you and you decide you don’t want it, give that person my email address and say I’d be happy to take it. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
