[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute
you mean some guy named Bradley Lehman's own crazy conspiracy theory
about Bach's tuning.
On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 1:54 AM, Stephan Olbertz
<[1]stephan.olbe...@web.de> wrote:
Not to forget Bach's own tuning:
[2]http://www.larips.com
Regards
Stephan
-UrsprA 1/4ngliche Nachricht-
Von: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:[4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag
von Christopher Wilke
Gesendet: Sonntag, 31. Januar 2016 20:58
An: Dante Rosati; Roman Turovsky
Cc: Lute Net
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute
"Well-tempered" is a non-specific term. It's been applied to
tuning
systems proposed by a number of theorists including Werckmeister,
Neidhardt, Kirnbertger, Valotti, etc. There is no scholarly
consensus
about which one of these - if any - Bach may have intended in
"Das
Wohltemperierte Klavier." Galilei obviously didn't use any of
those.
"Well-tempered," then, is a general term that apparently means
"tuned
well" in this context in reference to the composer's interest in
practical tuning. I don't think Zak is trying to mislead anyone
and
there's really no need for him to justify the album title.
Chris
[1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Sunday, January 31, 2016, 1:42 PM, Dante Rosati
<[5]danteros...@gmail.com> wrote:
i dont see anyone arguing against ET. the point is simple: the
CD is
called "the well tempered lute" (an obvious reference to the
"well
tempered clavier"), but, unlike Bach's cycle, which was
actually
meant
to be played in a "well temperament" (which is not equal
temperament),
the Galelei pieces are meant to be played in equal temperament,
and
according to Zak, that is indeed how his lute is tuned. Its
more an
issue of false advertisement. Thats why, when I saw his
original
post,
I was like "oh, that sounds interesting: a lute somehow
fretting in a
well-temperament! let me ask how he does it."
[cleardot.gif]
On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:57 PM, Roman Turovsky
<[1][2][6]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
uffa
Reminds me of an old armenian joke, about a guy who was
selling
a
weird
purple horse. Asked how come it is that way, he said: "It
is
mine, and
I paint it whatever color I want." You may tune your axe
whichever way
pleases you, if the end-result justifies it.
I'm certain Gorzanis and Galilei found ET to be as
beautiful as
I
do.
RT
On 1/31/2016 12:25 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
that is not relevant to the issue of calling a recording
of
Galelei
lute pieces "well tempered" when its not.
On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Roman Turovsky
<[1][2][3][7]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
Werckmeister switched to EqualT toward the end of his
life.
RT
On 1/31/2016 12:16 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
[2][3][4][8]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_temperament
On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Roman Turovsky
<[3][4][5][9]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
Early history
One of the earliest discussions of equal temperament
occurs
in
the
writing of [1]Aristoxenus in the 4th century BC.
[2]Vincenzo Galilei (father of [3]Galileo Galilei) was one
of
the
first
practical advocates of twelve-tone equal temperament. He
composed
a set
of dance suites on each of the 12 notes of the chromatic
scale
in
all
the "transposition keys", and published also, in his 1584
"[4]Fronimo",
24 + 1 [5]ricercars.^[6][22] He used the 18:17 ratio for
fretting
the
lute (although some adjustment was necessary for pure
octaves).^[7][23]
Galilei's countryman and fellow [8]lutenist [9]Giacomo
Gorzanis
had
written music based on equal temperament by
1567.^[10][24]^[11][25]
Gorzanis was not the only lutenist to explore all modes or
keys:
[12]Francesco Spinacino wrote a "Recercare d
[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute
i dont see anyone arguing against ET. the point is simple: the CD is called "the well tempered lute" (an obvious reference to the "well tempered clavier"), but, unlike Bach's cycle, which was actually meant to be played in a "well temperament" (which is not equal temperament), the Galelei pieces are meant to be played in equal temperament, and according to Zak, that is indeed how his lute is tuned. Its more an issue of false advertisement. Thats why, when I saw his original post, I was like "oh, that sounds interesting: a lute somehow fretting in a well-temperament! let me ask how he does it." [cleardot.gif] On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:57 PM, Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote: uffa Reminds me of an old armenian joke, about a guy who was selling a weird purple horse. Asked how come it is that way, he said: "It is mine, and I paint it whatever color I want." You may tune your axe whichever way pleases you, if the end-result justifies it. I'm certain Gorzanis and Galilei found ET to be as beautiful as I do. RT On 1/31/2016 12:25 PM, Dante Rosati wrote: that is not relevant to the issue of calling a recording of Galelei lute pieces "well tempered" when its not. On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Roman Turovsky <[1][2]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote: Werckmeister switched to EqualT toward the end of his life. RT On 1/31/2016 12:16 PM, Dante Rosati wrote: [2][3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_temperament On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Roman Turovsky <[3][4]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote: Early history One of the earliest discussions of equal temperament occurs in the writing of [1]Aristoxenus in the 4th century BC. [2]Vincenzo Galilei (father of [3]Galileo Galilei) was one of the first practical advocates of twelve-tone equal temperament. He composed a set of dance suites on each of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale in all the "transposition keys", and published also, in his 1584 "[4]Fronimo", 24 + 1 [5]ricercars.^[6][22] He used the 18:17 ratio for fretting the lute (although some adjustment was necessary for pure octaves).^[7][23] Galilei's countryman and fellow [8]lutenist [9]Giacomo Gorzanis had written music based on equal temperament by 1567.^[10][24]^[11][25] Gorzanis was not the only lutenist to explore all modes or keys: [12]Francesco Spinacino wrote a "Recercare de tutti li Toni" ([13]Ricercar in all the Tones) as early as 1507.^[14][26] In the 17th century lutenist-composer [15]John Wilson wrote a set of 30 preludes including 24 in all the major/minor keys.^[16][27]^[17][28] [18]Henricus Grammateus drew a close approximation to equal temperament in 1518. The first tuning rules in equal temperament were given by [19]Giovani Maria Lanfranco in his "Scintille de musica".^[20][29] [21]Zarlino in his [22]polemic with Galilei initially opposed equal temperament but eventually conceded to it in relation to the [23]lute in his Sopplimenti musicali in 1588. RT On 1/31/2016 12:04 PM, Dante Rosati wrote: "something like" equal temperament. If you look at fret placing instructions in Bermudo, etc, there is nothing that gives exact equal temperament. There is also the use of tastini to take into account. But yes, the convergence on equal temperament that became universal a few hundred years later was probably spearheaded by the fretted instruments (including viols). In any case, a "well temperament" is not equal temperament. On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Roman Turovsky <[24][4][5]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote: Lute was an early vehicle of EQUAL temperament. and that is the scholarly consensus. RT On 1/30/2016 8:53 PM, Dante Rosati wrote: HI Zak - does the Galelei book talk about tuning? As you know, there were various methods of placing the frets back then, none of which were exactly equal temperament. maybe the problem is calling it "the well tempered lute", sin
[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_temperament
On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Roman Turovsky
<[2]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
Early history
One of the earliest discussions of equal temperament occurs in
the
writing of [1]Aristoxenus in the 4th century BC.
[2]Vincenzo Galilei (father of [3]Galileo Galilei) was one of the
first
practical advocates of twelve-tone equal temperament. He composed
a set
of dance suites on each of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale in
all
the "transposition keys", and published also, in his 1584
"[4]Fronimo",
24 + 1 [5]ricercars.^[6][22] He used the 18:17 ratio for fretting
the
lute (although some adjustment was necessary for pure
octaves).^[7][23]
Galilei's countryman and fellow [8]lutenist [9]Giacomo Gorzanis
had
written music based on equal temperament by
1567.^[10][24]^[11][25]
Gorzanis was not the only lutenist to explore all modes or keys:
[12]Francesco Spinacino wrote a "Recercare de tutti li Toni"
([13]Ricercar in all the Tones) as early as 1507.^[14][26] In the
17th
century lutenist-composer [15]John Wilson wrote a set of 30
preludes
including 24 in all the major/minor keys.^[16][27]^[17][28]
[18]Henricus Grammateus drew a close approximation to equal
temperament
in 1518. The first tuning rules in equal temperament were given
by
[19]Giovani Maria Lanfranco in his "Scintille de
musica".^[20][29]
[21]Zarlino in his [22]polemic with Galilei initially opposed
equal
temperament but eventually conceded to it in relation to the
[23]lute
in his Sopplimenti musicali in 1588.
RT
On 1/31/2016 12:04 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
"something like" equal temperament. If you look at fret placing
instructions in Bermudo, etc, there is nothing that gives exact
equal
temperament. There is also the use of tastini to take into
account. But
yes, the convergence on equal temperament that became universal a
few
hundred years later was probably spearheaded by the fretted
instruments
(including viols). In any case, a "well temperament" is not equal
temperament.
On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Roman Turovsky
<[24][3]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote:
Lute was an early vehicle of EQUAL temperament. and that is the
scholarly consensus.
RT
On 1/30/2016 8:53 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
HI Zak - does the Galelei book talk about tuning? As you
know,
there
were various methods of placing the frets back then, none
of
which were
exactly equal temperament. maybe the problem is calling it
"the
well
tempered lute", since "well temperament" such as Bach used
in
his
keyboard cycle is not equal temperament either.
On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:08 PM, zak ozmo
<[1][25][4]z_o...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Dear friends and colleagues,
I am excited to announce the upcoming release of my
new
solo lute
CD on
Hyperion Records: Vincenzo Galilei: The Well-Tempered
Lute:
[1][2][26][5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vuvffo2bPs
This is the first volume of the fascinating
well-tempered
lute
section
of Galileis Libro dintavolatura di liuto (1584),
covering
dances
in
major and minor tonality on the first four steps of
the
chromatic
scale; Galileis Libro was circulated 138 years before
J.S.
Bachs
The
Well Tempered Clavier!I hope the recording will be
of
interest.
With all best wishes,
Zak Ozmo
[2][3][27][6]www.zakozmo.com
[3][4][28][7]www.lavventuralondon.co.uk
--
References
1. [5][29][8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vuvffo2bPs
2. [6][30][9]http://www.zakozmo.com/
3. [7][31][10]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/
To get on or off this list see list information at
[8][32][11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:[33][12]z_o...@hotmail.com
2. [34][13]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vuvffo2bPs
3. [35][14]http://www.zakozmo.com/
4. [36][
[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute
in which case calling it "well tempered" is particularly inappropriate. notice that the 18:17 fret placing method is only approximately equal. On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote: Early history One of the earliest discussions of equal temperament occurs in the writing of [2]Aristoxenus in the 4th century BC. [3]Vincenzo Galilei (father of [4]Galileo Galilei) was one of the first practical advocates of twelve-tone equal temperament. He composed a set of dance suites on each of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale in all the "transposition keys", and published also, in his 1584 "[5]Fronimo", 24 + 1 [6]ricercars.^[7][22] He used the 18:17 ratio for fretting the lute (although some adjustment was necessary for pure octaves).^[8][23] Galilei's countryman and fellow [9]lutenist [10]Giacomo Gorzanis had written music based on equal temperament by 1567.^[11][24]^[12][25] Gorzanis was not the only lutenist to explore all modes or keys: [13]Francesco Spinacino wrote a "Recercare de tutti li Toni" ([14]Ricercar in all the Tones) as early as 1507.^[15][26] In the 17th century lutenist-composer [16]John Wilson wrote a set of 30 preludes including 24 in all the major/minor keys.^[17][27]^[18][28] [19]Henricus Grammateus drew a close approximation to equal temperament in 1518. The first tuning rules in equal temperament were given by [20]Giovani Maria Lanfranco in his "Scintille de musica".^[21][29] [22]Zarlino in his [23]polemic with Galilei initially opposed equal temperament but eventually conceded to it in relation to the [24]lute in his Sopplimenti musicali in 1588. RT On 1/31/2016 12:04 PM, Dante Rosati wrote: "something like" equal temperament. If you look at fret placing instructions in Bermudo, etc, there is nothing that gives exact equal temperament. There is also the use of tastini to take into account. But yes, the convergence on equal temperament that became universal a few hundred years later was probably spearheaded by the fretted instruments (including viols). In any case, a "well temperament" is not equal temperament. On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Roman Turovsky <[25]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote: Lute was an early vehicle of EQUAL temperament. and that is the scholarly consensus. RT On 1/30/2016 8:53 PM, Dante Rosati wrote: HI Zak - does the Galelei book talk about tuning? As you know, there were various methods of placing the frets back then, none of which were exactly equal temperament. maybe the problem is calling it "the well tempered lute", since "well temperament" such as Bach used in his keyboard cycle is not equal temperament either. On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:08 PM, zak ozmo <[1][26]z_o...@hotmail.com> wrote: Dear friends and colleagues, I am excited to announce the upcoming release of my new solo lute CD on Hyperion Records: Vincenzo Galilei: The Well-Tempered Lute: [1][2][27]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs This is the first volume of the fascinating well-tempered lute section of Galileis Libro dintavolatura di liuto (1584), covering dances in major and minor tonality on the first four steps of the chromatic scale; Galileis Libro was circulated 138 years before J.S. Bachs The Well Tempered Clavier!I hope the recording will be of interest. With all best wishes, Zak Ozmo [2][3][28]www.zakozmo.com [3][4][29]www.lavventuralondon.co.uk -- References 1. [5][30]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs 2. [6][31]http://www.zakozmo.com/ 3. [7][32]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/ To get on or off this list see list information at [8][33]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[34]z_o...@hotmail.com 2. [35]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs 3. [36]http://www.zakozmo.com/ 4. [37]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/ 5. [38]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs 6. [39]http://www.zakozmo.com/ 7. [40]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/ 8. [41]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References Visible links 1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristoxenus 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincenzo_Galilei 4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei 5. https://
[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute
"something like" equal temperament. If you look at fret placing instructions in Bermudo, etc, there is nothing that gives exact equal temperament. There is also the use of tastini to take into account. But yes, the convergence on equal temperament that became universal a few hundred years later was probably spearheaded by the fretted instruments (including viols). In any case, a "well temperament" is not equal temperament. On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote: Lute was an early vehicle of EQUAL temperament. and that is the scholarly consensus. RT On 1/30/2016 8:53 PM, Dante Rosati wrote: HI Zak - does the Galelei book talk about tuning? As you know, there were various methods of placing the frets back then, none of which were exactly equal temperament. maybe the problem is calling it "the well tempered lute", since "well temperament" such as Bach used in his keyboard cycle is not equal temperament either. On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:08 PM, zak ozmo <[1][2]z_o...@hotmail.com> wrote: Dear friends and colleagues, I am excited to announce the upcoming release of my new solo lute CD on Hyperion Records: Vincenzo Galilei: The Well-Tempered Lute: [1][2][3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs This is the first volume of the fascinating well-tempered lute section of Galileis Libro dintavolatura di liuto (1584), covering dances in major and minor tonality on the first four steps of the chromatic scale; Galileis Libro was circulated 138 years before J.S. Bachs The Well Tempered Clavier!I hope the recording will be of interest. With all best wishes, Zak Ozmo [2][3][4]www.zakozmo.com [3][4][5]www.lavventuralondon.co.uk -- References 1. [5][6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs 2. [6][7]http://www.zakozmo.com/ 3. [7][8]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/ To get on or off this list see list information at [8][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[10]z_o...@hotmail.com 2. [11]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs 3. [12]http://www.zakozmo.com/ 4. [13]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/ 5. [14]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs 6. [15]http://www.zakozmo.com/ 7. [16]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/ 8. [17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 2. mailto:z_o...@hotmail.com 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs 4. http://www.zakozmo.com/ 5. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/ 6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs 7. http://www.zakozmo.com/ 8. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/ 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 10. mailto:z_o...@hotmail.com 11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs 12. http://www.zakozmo.com/ 13. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/ 14. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs 15. http://www.zakozmo.com/ 16. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/ 17. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Vincenzo Galilei and The Well-Tempered Lute
HI Zak - does the Galelei book talk about tuning? As you know, there were various methods of placing the frets back then, none of which were exactly equal temperament. maybe the problem is calling it "the well tempered lute", since "well temperament" such as Bach used in his keyboard cycle is not equal temperament either. On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 5:08 PM, zak ozmo <[1]z_o...@hotmail.com> wrote: Dear friends and colleagues, I am excited to announce the upcoming release of my new solo lute CD on Hyperion Records: Vincenzo Galilei: The Well-Tempered Lute: [1][2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs This is the first volume of the fascinating well-tempered lute section of Galileis Libro dintavolatura di liuto (1584), covering dances in major and minor tonality on the first four steps of the chromatic scale; Galileis Libro was circulated 138 years before J.S. Bachs The Well Tempered Clavier! I hope the recording will be of interest. With all best wishes, Zak Ozmo [2][3]www.zakozmo.com [3][4]www.lavventuralondon.co.uk -- References 1. [5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs 2. [6]http://www.zakozmo.com/ 3. [7]http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/ To get on or off this list see list information at [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:z_o...@hotmail.com 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs 3. http://www.zakozmo.com/ 4. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/ 5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1uvffo2bPs 6. http://www.zakozmo.com/ 7. http://www.lavventuralondon.co.uk/ 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [Fronimo_editor] Francesco da Milano - Fronimo files
I recently ordered the reprint from Boulder Early Music Shop and it is excellent. I just wish it were a true critical edition in the sense that it provided information on the variants. As it is, variants are shown in the transcription without any indication of which sources they come from or how many sources share them. A supplementary volume with this kind of apparatus would make the edition truly complete & definitive! Even so, it is a magnificent edition and absolutely indispensable for FdM! On Sat, Jul 26, 2014 at 6:46 PM, AJN <[1]arthurjn...@verizon.net> wrote: A A Dear Sylvie and Harald, A A (My critical edition was continuously available from UMI/ProQuest in A A their "Books on Demand" division after the HUP edition sold out. A A (It was the "best seller" in the HUP music series.) A Many publishers A A back then used the now defunct UMI/ProQuest "on Demand" service to make A A their A A out-of-print books available to libraries and others needing A A replacement copies. A Their catalog held an amazing 140,000 titles! A A The original Harvard University Press edition of The Lute Works of A A Francesco Canova da Milano A A has been available for several years now in an AUTHORIZED REPRINT A A EDITION from Boulder Early Music Shop (now in A A Oregon) [1][2]https://www.bems.com/ A Price $80 (eighty dollars)--complete A A in two volumes. A The edition uses the A A 8 1/2 x 11 plates made by UMI for their "Books on Demand," A and A A includes a half page of updates (on p. xii). A A The tablature-only edition you cite by Seicento Editions costs 192 A A Euros (=$258). Nor do I know how accurate it is. A A As a quick look reveals, for each piece I examined, Rainer cites A A the same sources I used, A A and has many of the same emendations as I. A Of course, I gathered A A together perhaps a hundred microfilms, A A and examined and collated ALL of the existing original sources for A A Francesco's A A music. A It is standard procedure in preparing a critical edition of A A music to search out, find, and publish the most accurate readings. A A I compared over a two million ciphers and rhythm signs. A A Copies of the original HUP edition appear on the used book market about A A 2 or 3 times per year. A Use the "Book Fetch" / "Wish List" A A services of international antiquarian book dealers such as [3]abebook.com A A or [4]alibris.com A (their coverage is worldwide). A A Most are in very good condition and are reasonably priced A (usually A A well below $150; I bought for $35***; but one recently A A sold for $300). A A You must be quick, because most copies are sold within a few hours of A A being announced on the online antiquarian market. A A ***Mint condition. A A single pencil remark on No. 87a, "Magnificent!" A A Arthur -- References 1. mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net 2. https://www.bems.com/ 3. http://abebook.com/ 4. http://alibris.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Beethoven influences
>He was the best guitarist Beethoven knew, funny that Beethoven wouldn't write some music for such a "great" musician and bosom buddy (silly guitar part for 7th symphony doesn't count). Dante To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Matanya Ophee and the lutelist
Allow me to add that MO used to run a guitar list himself (now defunct). He kicked me off the list after I opined that publishing 3rd and 4th rate guitar music from the 19th century (in critical editions no less) was a waste of scholarly energy, so evidently he is in favor of list control and censorship and can hardly complain when such measures are applied to him. Karma in action. The funny thing I remember about it (before I was booted) was that MO and Gilardino were bragging about how skilled they were at wading through mounds of bad contemporary guitar compositions to find the few good ones to publish. I asked why it was important to find only the good contemporary compositions to publish, whereas (apparently) anything from the 19th c. was publishable no matter how bad it was. I never got an answer as I was unsubscribed forcibly by the list-fuhrer at that point. Dante >-Original Message- >From: gary digman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 3:18 AM >To: lutelist >Subject: [LUTE] Matanya Ophee and the lutelist > > >Dear All; > It doesn't seem quite fair to me to continue to discuss >Matanya and his views on sundrie matters without allowing him the >opportunity to respond and/or defend those views. > > Best to All, > Gary Digman >-- > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
RE: Happy New Year
$350 million is what is spent every two days killing Iraqis. Dante >-Original Message- >From: Roman Turovsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 12:33 PM >To: lute list >Subject: Re: Happy New Year > > >13 minutes ago >Assoc.Press; > >"On this first day of a new year, we join the world in feeling enormous >sadness over a great human tragedy," President Bush said Saturday in his >weekly radio address. >He announced on Friday that the United States would provide 10 times its >earlier $35 million offering an amount criticized as miserly for such a >rich nation" >RT > > > > >> Didn't GWB wait 4 (sic!) days before pledging any assistance? >> RT >>> Dear Bill: >>> >>> Thank you so very much for your off the subject post. I agree >100%, this >>> needed to be said. While other countries are making pledges >(welcome to be >>> sure), and bad mouthing the USA (*#$*& to all of them) The US is doing >>> something. >> __ >> Roman M. Turovsky >> http://polyhymnion.org/swv >> > > > > >To get on or off this list see list information at >http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
RE: I am sorry...
http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
RE: vihuela cd-rom
Hi Chris- could you print out a page for yourself and tell us if it is legible? thanks Dante > -Original Message- > From: Christopher Schaub [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 1:03 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: vihuela cd-rom > > > I just received the new vihuela cd-rom from the UK Lute Society. > It is really > wonderful -- all seven facsimiles of the surviving vihuela books. > It is really > professionally done and really fun to use. I'm really impressed. > Just a plug > for a good product. > > Chris Schaub > >
RE: Vihuela Songs - cd-rom
sounds good, Jason, but the crucial question is: how is the legibility when you print them out? thanks Dante > -Original Message- > From: Jason Yoshida [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 4:40 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Vihuela Songs - cd-rom > > > I just got the cd-rom with the 7 vihuela books yesterday. You can get it > from Los Angeles Classical Guitars. www.lacg.net > The cd-roms are not posted on the website yet because they received the > shipment on the same day I was there. Just call or email them to buy the > Cd-Rom. I think it was about six-eight or seventy-dollars. > It is a really nice Cd-rom and it comes with an eighty-six page booklet > (in Spanish). The facsimiles are accessed through a navigational GUI > program. You can also print from it. I think the program is a bit clumsy > to navigate if you are trying to play from the screen. Maybe I have not > figured it out yet, but you cannot go to the next page when the pages > are shown at full size. You have to return to the index. I also think > you cannot size fit taller pages to fit on the computer screen. Maybe I > need to play with it more but it's probably better not to spend a lot of > time reading music from a CRT. The reproductions are very clear. > The really wonderful part about this publication, besides having all of > the main vihuela books, is that the pieces for vihuela and voice are > reproduced in color. You can see the vocal melody notated as red numbers > in the tablature. > > Regards, > Jason Yoshida > > > -Original Message- > From: Monica Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 6:30 AM > To: Stewart McCoy > Cc: lutenet > Subject: Re: Vihuela Songs > > The Charles Jacobs Milan edition was published by Pennsylvania State > U.P. > in > 1971. The Leo Schrade edition of Milan originally published by Breitkopf > & > Hartel and reprinted by Georg Olms in 1976 (still available I think) > does > have both tablature with the voice part in italics and a transcription > > The problem with Charles Jacobs, and the MME volumes is that the music > is > sometimes transcribed in odd keys due to a misunderstanding about the > instructions which appear at the beginning of many of the pieces which > match > them to the hexachordal system. A list of Vihuela tablature - > facsimiles > and complete editions compiled by yours truly is in the October 2002 > issue > of > Lute News. > > The CDROM should be on sale at the Lute Society meeting in London on > Saturday - price £36. > > Monica > > > > - Original Message - > From: Stewart McCoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Lute Net <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 11:01 AM > Subject: Vihuela Songs > > > Dear David, > > Charles Jacobs has edited Luys Milan's _El Maestro_. I'm afraid I > don't have a copy to hand, so can't provide all the bibliographical > details. He also edited Fuenllana's _Orphénica Lyra_. I looked at > this book the other day to check something out, so have the details > jotted down: Miguel de Fuenllana, _Orphénica Lyra_, ed. Charles > Jacobs (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1978). A transcription of > the vihuela music of Narvaez and Valderrábano were published as part > of the Monumentos series. > > -o-O-o- > > Talking of the vihuela, a message has just been posted to the > Spanish Vihuela Mailing List by Carlos González. He is selling CD > Roms of all seven printed books of vihuela music in facsimile for a > mere 60 euros, or 50 euros for members of a lute society. The > contact address is > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I could pass on a copy of his e-mail (in Spanish), which he sent to > the Vihuela List, but I don't know if it is acceptable to copy > messages from one list to another like that. > > Wayne, please could you tell me if it would be in order to do this? > > Best wishes, > > Stewart. > > > - Original Message - > From: "David Rastall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 12:06 AM > Subject: Vihuela Songs > > > > Hi Luters, > > > > Are there any modern editions available of Spanish vihuela songs? > I > > have the Mudarra facsimile, which has some songs in it, but I'm > > wondering what there is available in modern edition of songs of > other > > 16th-century Spanish composers (unfortunately, my Milan "El > Maestro" is > > a black-and-white facsimile, so I can't tell where the vocal lines > are). > > > > I'm also wondering where I can find Bossinensis and Bottegari lute > > books in modern editions. Any suggestions, anyone? > > > > Regards, > > > > David Rastall > > > > > > > > > > > >
RE: Josquin, Missa l'homme arme super voces musicales, slightly OT
Pisador entabulated parts of this mass in his Libro de Musica de Vihuela, including Agnus Dei III. Dante > -Original Message- > From: Gernot Hilger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 2:55 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Josquin, Missa l'homme arme super voces musicales, slightly OT > > > Dear all, > only to illustrate what I mean: For those who might be interested, I > have uploaded a lo-fi 64kbps MP3 to my webspace > www.jsbach.mynetcologne.de/agnus.mp3 (2.7 MB, for those who've got > broadband) > The development beginning at about 2:30, the climax and the so-to-say > coda are plainly wonderful. Note the harmonic change at 2:50. > This is a live recording of the Bonner Kammerchor, which is actually > the choir I sing in, the only recording I've got. Maybe too romantic > for some of the purists, but - did I mention it already? - glorious > music. I wonder if it works on the lute? > g > > On 09.01.2004, at 14:23, Gernot Hilger wrote: > > > Has anybody heard of an intabulation of the Agnus Dei III from > > Josquin's Missa > > l'homme armé super voces musicales? This is one of Josquin's finest > > works, > > methinks. > > g > >
Cage, Boulez, etc.
Hi all- This thread caught my attention because I have recently been listening to these very composers, and other 20th c. music. The silence piece may be Cage's most famous (or "infamous"), but he wrote tons of music, some of which is very beautiful and interesting. His works for prepared piano, imaginary landscapes, and even his suite for toy piano are far from jokes. He was an experimenter, and not all of his experiments produce what we would call "music" in the sense of Bach or Beethoven. His thinking about music and sound was way ahead of its time and was also very influential on European composers like Boulez. Boulez is one of the most interesting composers of the post WWII period, for his music, his writings and his historical influence (he was definitly in the right place at the right time with the right stuff). "Marteau sans Maitre" is a full-blown masterpiece, and even has a prominant guitar part. Some of his more recent pieces are fantastic- check out "Sur Incises" (1998) for 3 pianos, 3 harps and 3 percussionsists, or "..explosante fixe..". Xenakis, Stockhausen, Ligeti, Lutoslawski- these are all tremendously talented composers, but you have to spend a certain amount of time becomming familiar with their language, and you cant listen to their music expecting to get out of it what you get from Brahms or Milano. In fact, Cage back in the 30's was already saying that maybe "music" is the wrong word to use for these kind of developments, and perhaps "sound organization" might be better. I have had a love-hate relationship with this kind of music for many years. For example, I used to hate Ferneyhough, and felt he was a perfect example of inaudible complexity that could just as easily be improvised. These days, I find his sonic landscapes fascinating. Go figure. In fact, if you give it a chance, I think you will find that the 20th century was a time of unprecedented exploration and creativity. One thing I have noticed, though, is that alot of this kind of music is "mental" or "intellectual" music. That is, without tonality, without the harmonic language that existed in western music for centuries, what you get is something that is often fascinating, but perhaps not as "moving" emotionally. Of course, you can see this as a failing, if you believe that all sound invention must be emotional. But if you enjoy and value the realms of the mind, then this kind of music can be appreciated in its own right without expecting it to be something else. Personally, I am finding it well worth the time to listen. Dante
RE: Bermudo
There is an extensive (40 page) synopsis in: Stevenson, R. "Juan Bermudo" Martinus Nijhoff/ The Hague 1960. It also contains a biography and bibliography. Dante > -Original Message- > From: Edward Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 11:24 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Bermudo > > > Is there an English translation available on Bermudo's Declaration? > > Thanks in advance. > > ed > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > voice: (218) 728-1202 > > >
