For me the point is that Carolyn Abbate fimly trounced the notion of an
urtext thirty years ago :)
I just don't see any point in revisiting it. It turns out that
composition works like quantum mechanics, the closer you look, the
fuzzier it gets.
So all this linear provenance, composers intent, etc, that went out the
window years ago. I mean, no one is saying don't speculate, but it is
just speculation.
As far as Bach renting instruments, that proves one of two things.
First, that he probaly did not rent them, because they would not have
been in his household inventory at the time of his death, and, second,
in the extremely unlikely event that he rented them, he must have
wanted them. Here's my 2 euro cents. The gamba sonatas, some of the
greatest music ever written for gamba, composed on a rent-a-viol? Good
thing they didn't get repo'd!
And there was no ocarina on his shelf. Just instruments that happened
to be used in the finest sacred pieces composed in the baroque
period--the John and Matthew passions.
Coincidence? Equally likely, IMHO, finding a moon rock in an astronauts
luggage. And I mean no disrespect, it just seems awfully tidy.
And I missing something, and maybe someone here can help me, but the
page marked "unplayable" in the article, doesn't this work fine on the
archlute?
Of all the arguments, playability certainly is intriguing.
dt
__________________________________________________________________
From: "Braig, Eugene" <brai...@osu.edu>
To: lute <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Wed, April 25, 2012 11:31:40 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] [LUTE] [LUTE] Bach's Lute Suites: This Myth
is Busted
I think the point, David, is that the music we have inherited as
"Bach's works for lute" doesn't have any linear provenance to actually
connect them to an intention by Bach for them to be performed on lute.
That said, transcriptions of any Bach music are as legitimately "lute"
as the alleged lute works.
Sure, he may have dabbled on a lute in his own collection, but who
knows with what music? While I own a Viennese ocarina, jaw-harp,
6-hole American cedar flute, chromatic harmonica, etc. there's little
likelihood of me composing music for any of them within my lifetime.
(Granted, I am not anything like a properly trained composer.)
As Titmuss points out, there is some speculation Bach also rented
instruments. If so, I wouldn't necessarily expect an intimate
compositional familiarity with the pieces in his rental stable.
Eugene
-----Original Message-----
From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David Tayler
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:17 PM
To: lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Bach's Lute Suites: This Myth is
Busted
Let's see, Bach owned a lute, but didn't play it. Probably used it
for
a planter.
In all seriousness, this argument hinges on the idea of an urtext,
which is simply not tenable for a composer who arranged and
rearranged
his own works as well as the works of other composers. We don't know
how Bach--and others--played this music, but the lautenwerk, the
organ,
clavichord, lute, archlute, gallichon, all possibilities.
Certainly a lute player might have come up with a scordatura that
would
be quite fabulous, and they of course sound great on the lautenwerk.
Classic example? Toccata and fugue is really not by Bach and also for
the violin. OK, or it really is by Bach and sounds great on the
organ.
The consistent model is that Bach composed for instruments in his
house--the viol, the lute, the harpsichord, the lautenwerk, the
violin,
viola, and so on, as well as many other instruments.
And while I think it is more likely, even very likely, that these
pieces are for lautenwerk, it is quite possible that someone someday
will play them on some kind of lute perfectly. Without 2000 edits :)
Add virtuoso, rinse, take the repeats.
__________________________________________________________________
From: William Samson <[3]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Luca Manassero <[4]l...@manassero.net>;
"[5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu"
<[6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Wed, April 25, 2012 7:01:08 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Bach's Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted
I won't believe it until it appears on Mythbusters :)
Bill
From: Luca Manassero <[1][7]l...@manassero.net>
To: [2][8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Wednesday, 25 April 2012, 14:37
Subject: [LUTE] Bach's Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted
An interesting post:
[1][1][3][9]http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suit
es-
thi
s-m
yth-is-busted-part-i/
Luca
References
1.
[2][4][10]http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites
-thi
s-m
yth-is-busted-part-i/
To get on or off this list see list information at
[3][5][11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1.
[6][12]http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-th
is-m
2.
[7][13]http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-th
is-m
yth-is-busted-part-i/
3. [8][14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:[15]l...@manassero.net
2. mailto:[16]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
3.
[17]http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-thi
4.
[18]http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-this-
m
5. [19]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
6.
[20]http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-this-
m
7.
[21]http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-this-
myth-is-busted-part-i/
8. [22]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
4. mailto:l...@manassero.net
5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
7. mailto:l...@manassero.net
8. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
9. http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites
10. http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-thi
11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
12. http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-this-m
13. http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-this-m
14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
15. mailto:l...@manassero.net
16. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
17. http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-thi
18. http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-this-m
19. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
20. http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-this-m
21.
http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-this-myth-is-busted-part-i/
22. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
