[LUTE] Re: Accompanying Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano
Thanks - lovely - and thanks for the introduction to the ArsAntigua website. Andrew On 23 Mar 2009, at 22:42, Jeff wrote: I recently recorded one of Ortiz's pieces for a podcast--violone soloist, virginal and bass lute accompany (not theorbo, as the intro says.) Simple chords, occasional filler--let the soloist shine; in most of these pieces, he/she has so much going on, you really do not want to add too much more to the mix. I've also played some of his more complex divisions on contrapuntal vocal works on a G lute. That can be tricky since the lute needs to cover the 3-4 voices of the song while the soloist noodles above and below. Anyway, podcast of one Ortiz piece at arsantiguapresents.com I think it is last month's podcast. jeff -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Accompanying Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano
Dear Simon, The first half of the Ortiz book describes how to work w/ adding more notes to a simple line so you may have everything you need there. As the lutenist you can add more chords to strengthen the rhythm as you like. A good source for seeing how to break up those chords and add a few bass walks would be the Bassus book of the Pacaloni trios. In there you'll find many of the same 'grounds' (Romanesca, Antico, Moderno, etc). You may need to do a little transposing and you can take out or add passing tones when you and your soloists decide on a tempo. Another source is the treble/ground English repertory. Continuo is an iffy word to use here since the long-necked lute (or what we'd generally think of as a continuo lute) was non-existant. You should be able to get a very nice sound from the instruments of the day: Gamba, lutes of various sizes, ren guitar, cittern and keyboard. The recercatas shine more from rhythmic drive than an anchoring bass. If you do go w/ a continuo lute be careful of the long ringing low strings muddying up the low registers. best wishes, Sean On Mar 23, 2009, at 9:04 AM, Lambert, SC (Simon) wrote: I have a question for our continuo experts on the list. I'm going to accompany some of Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano on the lute. For those who don't know the pieces, they consist of a simple bass line in long notes of equal value (the canto llano), above which a melody instrument (often a viola da gamba is used) has a more elaborate line, but not as flashy as the bastarda style, more soulful. The accompanying chords are very elementary, in fact most are just major or minor triads. And there is one chord per measure all the way through: D minor - A minor - G minor etc. My question is: how would you realise this accompaniment on the lute? Just playing the obvious chord at the beginning of each bar is not going to be very interesting, and because the music doesn't seem to need to go fast the sound would quickly die away before the next bar. I must admit I am tempted to try folk guitar style arpeggio patterns, anachronistic though it may be! Thanks, Simon Lambert -- Scanned by iCritical. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Accompanying Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano
Those pieces can accomodate two inner parts well. But you can also play just the chords. The madrigal style is more persuasive if not too busy. dtA t 09:04 AM 3/23/2009, you wrote: I have a question for our continuo experts on the list. I'm going to accompany some of Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano on the lute. For those who don't know the pieces, they consist of a simple bass line in long notes of equal value (the canto llano), above which a melody instrument (often a viola da gamba is used) has a more elaborate line, but not as flashy as the bastarda style, more soulful. The accompanying chords are very elementary, in fact most are just major or minor triads. And there is one chord per measure all the way through: D minor - A minor - G minor etc. My question is: how would you realise this accompaniment on the lute? Just playing the obvious chord at the beginning of each bar is not going to be very interesting, and because the music doesn't seem to need to go fast the sound would quickly die away before the next bar. I must admit I am tempted to try folk guitar style arpeggio patterns, anachronistic though it may be! Thanks, Simon Lambert -- Scanned by iCritical. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Accompanying Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Lambert, SC (Simon) simon.lamb...@stfc.ac.uk wrote: accompany some of Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano on the lute. For those who don't know the pieces, they consist of a simple bass line in long notes of equal value (the canto llano), above which a melody instrument (often a viola da gamba is used) has a more elaborate line, I tend to keep these accompaniments very simple: just a chord on each bass note. All attention has to go to the solo part, I'm there to indicate the bass line and add some harmony, nothing more. Just playing the bass, preferably on another gamba, but on a lute will do too, would be fine as well. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Accompanying Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano
I recently recorded one of Ortiz's pieces for a podcast--violone soloist, virginal and bass lute accompany (not theorbo, as the intro says.) Simple chords, occasional filler--let the soloist shine; in most of these pieces, he/she has so much going on, you really do not want to add too much more to the mix. I've also played some of his more complex divisions on contrapuntal vocal works on a G lute. That can be tricky since the lute needs to cover the 3-4 voices of the song while the soloist noodles above and below. Anyway, podcast of one Ortiz piece at arsantiguapresents.com I think it is last month's podcast. jeff - Original Message - From: Lambert, SC (Simon) simon.lamb...@stfc.ac.uk To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 11:04 AM Subject: [LUTE] Accompanying Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano I have a question for our continuo experts on the list. I'm going to accompany some of Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano on the lute. For those who don't know the pieces, they consist of a simple bass line in long notes of equal value (the canto llano), above which a melody instrument (often a viola da gamba is used) has a more elaborate line, but not as flashy as the bastarda style, more soulful. The accompanying chords are very elementary, in fact most are just major or minor triads. And there is one chord per measure all the way through: D minor - A minor - G minor etc. My question is: how would you realise this accompaniment on the lute? Just playing the obvious chord at the beginning of each bar is not going to be very interesting, and because the music doesn't seem to need to go fast the sound would quickly die away before the next bar. I must admit I am tempted to try folk guitar style arpeggio patterns, anachronistic though it may be! Thanks, Simon Lambert -- Scanned by iCritical. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Accompanying Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano
This is entirely a matter of taste, but for mid renaissance music I prefer to have voices of some sort present, even if they are in block form. The phalese airs print from the same time has a very good mix of accompaniments ranging from very simple to those of a slightly northern flavor. If you are comfortable reading score, I would suggest Arcadelt's first book which was the standard throughout much of Europe in the 16th century--it was even reissued by Monteverdi! Arcadelt's Voi ve is a great model for adapting the new homophonic style that was so popular. Without the presence of voices the music takes on a slightly baroque flavor. Even Ortiz' simple accompaniments are reminiscent of Lassus' three part settings, or perhaps more similar to da Nola, as in his setting of chi la galliarda. Proper lute parts, even in block form, generally follow the rules of counterpoint, even though the voices disappear from time to time. dt At 03:42 PM 3/23/2009, you wrote: I recently recorded one of Ortiz's pieces for a podcast--violone soloist, virginal and bass lute accompany (not theorbo, as the intro says.) Simple chords, occasional filler--let the soloist shine; in most of these pieces, he/she has so much going on, you really do not want to add too much more to the mix. I've also played some of his more complex divisions on contrapuntal vocal works on a G lute. That can be tricky since the lute needs to cover the 3-4 voices of the song while the soloist noodles above and below. Anyway, podcast of one Ortiz piece at arsantiguapresents.com I think it is last month's podcast. jeff - Original Message - From: Lambert, SC (Simon) simon.lamb...@stfc.ac.uk To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 11:04 AM Subject: [LUTE] Accompanying Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano I have a question for our continuo experts on the list. I'm going to accompany some of Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano on the lute. For those who don't know the pieces, they consist of a simple bass line in long notes of equal value (the canto llano), above which a melody instrument (often a viola da gamba is used) has a more elaborate line, but not as flashy as the bastarda style, more soulful. The accompanying chords are very elementary, in fact most are just major or minor triads. And there is one chord per measure all the way through: D minor - A minor - G minor etc. My question is: how would you realise this accompaniment on the lute? Just playing the obvious chord at the beginning of each bar is not going to be very interesting, and because the music doesn't seem to need to go fast the sound would quickly die away before the next bar. I must admit I am tempted to try folk guitar style arpeggio patterns, anachronistic though it may be! Thanks, Simon Lambert -- Scanned by iCritical. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Accompanying Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano
Sorry--didn't mean to imply just strumming changes! As David says, this is Renaissance music and the linear movement should dictate how to voice the chords. jeff - Original Message - From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 5:55 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Accompanying Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano This is entirely a matter of taste, but for mid renaissance music I prefer to have voices of some sort present, even if they are in block form. The phalese airs print from the same time has a very good mix of accompaniments ranging from very simple to those of a slightly northern flavor. If you are comfortable reading score, I would suggest Arcadelt's first book which was the standard throughout much of Europe in the 16th century--it was even reissued by Monteverdi! Arcadelt's Voi ve is a great model for adapting the new homophonic style that was so popular. Without the presence of voices the music takes on a slightly baroque flavor. Even Ortiz' simple accompaniments are reminiscent of Lassus' three part settings, or perhaps more similar to da Nola, as in his setting of chi la galliarda. Proper lute parts, even in block form, generally follow the rules of counterpoint, even though the voices disappear from time to time. dt At 03:42 PM 3/23/2009, you wrote: I recently recorded one of Ortiz's pieces for a podcast--violone soloist, virginal and bass lute accompany (not theorbo, as the intro says.) Simple chords, occasional filler--let the soloist shine; in most of these pieces, he/she has so much going on, you really do not want to add too much more to the mix. I've also played some of his more complex divisions on contrapuntal vocal works on a G lute. That can be tricky since the lute needs to cover the 3-4 voices of the song while the soloist noodles above and below. Anyway, podcast of one Ortiz piece at arsantiguapresents.com I think it is last month's podcast. jeff - Original Message - From: Lambert, SC (Simon) simon.lamb...@stfc.ac.uk To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 11:04 AM Subject: [LUTE] Accompanying Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano I have a question for our continuo experts on the list. I'm going to accompany some of Ortiz's Recercadas sobre un canto llano on the lute. For those who don't know the pieces, they consist of a simple bass line in long notes of equal value (the canto llano), above which a melody instrument (often a viola da gamba is used) has a more elaborate line, but not as flashy as the bastarda style, more soulful. The accompanying chords are very elementary, in fact most are just major or minor triads. And there is one chord per measure all the way through: D minor - A minor - G minor etc. My question is: how would you realise this accompaniment on the lute? Just playing the obvious chord at the beginning of each bar is not going to be very interesting, and because the music doesn't seem to need to go fast the sound would quickly die away before the next bar. I must admit I am tempted to try folk guitar style arpeggio patterns, anachronistic though it may be! Thanks, Simon Lambert -- Scanned by iCritical. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
