[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Daniel Shoskes]

What I said had nothing to do with iconographic thumb position in baroque lute 
and your point had nothing to do with Ido’s question. Thumb out, which is the 
historical baroque lute RH position and classical guitar position have 
similarities. Theorbo, depending how it’s held, often requires more external 
wrist rotation, and given the usual modern practice of single stringing, use of 
RH nails and due to the tuning system, many classical guitarists have told me 
the theorbo is the most similar RH natural transition. But Ido wants to buy and 
play baroque lute, which is a fine choice and which indeed will allow his thumb 
to remain out.

> On Oct 19, 2017, at 10:05 PM, Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> 
> <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>> 
> 
> on behalf of Daniel Shoskes <kidneykut...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:kidneykut...@gmail.com>>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:59 PM
> To: Ido Shdaimah
> Cc: Lute List
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute
> 
> " It’s actually the theorbo that has the hand position most similar to 
> classical guitar..."
> 
> The historical right-hand position for baroque lute is with the thumb 
> stretched out and the fingers perpendicular to the strings.  I would like to 
> see a single historical example of iconography that depicts thumb under on a 
> baroque lute.
> 
> RA


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[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[David van Ooijen]

   Highly subjective, ymmv, make your own choices, but ... I like curved
   fingerboards on Baroque lutes, they make sense to me. As they do on
   jazz guitars. They make life a lot easier. If you have the option, go
   for it!
   Stringing a theorbo as a baroque lute. Anything is possible, but think
   of how many of the basses you would want to finger once in a while, and
   think of double course/single strings, single 1st and 2nd and the rest
   double and then think of nut spacing on a theorbe vs nut spacing on a
   B-lute, and if you'd need to adjust a theorbo nut to your B-lute
   preferences, and think of the physical balance and weight of a theorbo
   vs a B-lute. Solo repertoire for B-lute is abundant, for theorbo there
   is not so much, this might well also have to do with the size of the
   thing. I know I prefer sitting an evening with a B-lute on my lap to an
   evening carrying a theorbo. Think of a well made theorbo, where the
   resonance of the instrument is, and how a well-made B-lute responds to
   the pitches of its string: would you play violin music on a bass, or
   viola music on a cello? Maybe a theorbo would be a bit boomy for a
   B-lute stringing, I don't know, but I would certainly want to try that
   out before spending the cash on such a conversion.
   Long story short: stringing a theorbo as a B-lute might go without any
   hitches, but it also might be a can of worms.
   Bridge spacing. I reject the one-size-fits-all theory. I am one size,
   and even on my different lutes I have different bridge spacings because
   of different hand positions/techniques that come with those lutes.
   Buying on-line is up to you, but for such a serious instrument I'd
   consider buying 2nd hand, so you can try, or going to a luthier and
   trying out before you order. The rental programmes of various lute
   societies, luthiers and even teachers (I have a spare R-lute I rent
   out) are a great way of trying out a lute.
   Lastly, you want a lute so I think you should go for a lute, but if
   you're really attached to your guitar, you could consider a 13-string
   guitar. I abhor these instruments, think they are as far away from a
   B-lute as you can get and a waste of (a lot) of effort and money, but I
   know they work for others and some people make wonderful music on them,
   of course.
   David

   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***
   On 19 October 2017 at 11:45, Roman Turovsky <[3]r.turov...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

 LeLuthDoree is planning to offer a small theorbo that can be easily
 strung as a baroque lute.
 It actually might be a perfect instrument for a classical guitarist
 making the switch.
 RT
 On 10/18/2017 5:59 PM, Daniel Shoskes wrote:

 To answer your actual questions, I don't think there are enough
 people who have played the Luth Dore baroque lutes to really get a
 balanced opinion. You might want to ask Rob MacKillop off line
 because he received an early model. Of course once they start to be
 mass produced one hopes there will be consistency between
 instruments. I don't think you can make a blanket statement about
 bridge length. It really depends on your personal anatomy and how
 well the strings vibrate on the instrument. At that price point
 however there is little competition.
 There are people who have filed their nails on an angle, allowing
 flesh only for lute playing and a flesh/nail interface for classical
 guitar and/or theorbo. Pat O'Brien was a prime example of someone
 who easily switched between all instruments in that way.   It's
 actually the theorbo that has the hand position most similar to
 classical guitar, although there are differences for all the plucked
 lute family instruments. The primary difficulty with nails is
 cleanly striking both strings of a course together in unison.
 Especially that striking involves equal depression of both strings
 towards the soundboard and then follow through. A single strung
 theorbo avoids that problem, but you did say you wanted a baroque
 lute. Congratulations on that choice BTW, there is a surprising
 depth and breadth of music written in that tuning that traverses
 countries and styles. It's truly a wonderful instrument and it has
 given me years of joy.
 You didn't say where you live. If in the USA or UK, the local lute
 societies have lute lending programs that would allow you to try out
 a lute first. If you could attend one of the many playing days in
 the UK or lute seminar in the USA you would have the chance to try
 multiple lutes with different sizes and configurations. More ideal
 than buying sight unseen, which sadly most of us end up doing in the
 end.
 Danny

 On Oct 18, 2017, at 2:58 AM, Ido Shdaimah <[4]ishdai...@gmail.com>
 

[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Daniel Shoskes]

That would be a deal breaker for me, but again we all have our own anatomy and 
physiology.

> On Oct 19, 2017, at 5:55 AM, Roman Turovsky  wrote:
> 
> Besides the bridge spacing -
> LLD 13course have flat fingerboards.
> Normal baroque lutes have convex fingerboards which greatly facilitate 
> barre', and fretting in general.
> RT
> 
> 
> On 10/18/2017 2:58 AM, Ido Shdaimah wrote:
>>Hello fellow lute players and enthusiasts, I have a fair amount of
>>money saved and I would like to buy a lute. Currently I am eyeing Le
>>Luth Doré lutes, what is your take on these?
>>I would like a baroque lute, but Roman Turovsky advises against them
>>because of the 140cm bridge length, but I would like to hear other
>>people on the issue too.
>>More on these lutes: What is the difference between the cheaper and the
>>more expensive versions?
>>And finally, I currently play the classical guitar, and I'm not
>>planning to give up on it. So what should I do concerning the
>>nail/nail-less dispute? Should I find a middle ground, play nail-less
>>on both or maybe play with nails?
>>Thanks in advance.
>> 
>>--
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Roman Turovsky]

Besides the bridge spacing -
LLD 13course have flat fingerboards.
Normal baroque lutes have convex fingerboards which greatly facilitate 
barre', and fretting in general.

RT


On 10/18/2017 2:58 AM, Ido Shdaimah wrote:

Hello fellow lute players and enthusiasts, I have a fair amount of
money saved and I would like to buy a lute. Currently I am eyeing Le
Luth Doré lutes, what is your take on these?
I would like a baroque lute, but Roman Turovsky advises against them
because of the 140cm bridge length, but I would like to hear other
people on the issue too.
More on these lutes: What is the difference between the cheaper and the
more expensive versions?
And finally, I currently play the classical guitar, and I'm not
planning to give up on it. So what should I do concerning the
nail/nail-less dispute? Should I find a middle ground, play nail-less
on both or maybe play with nails?
Thanks in advance.

--


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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Roman Turovsky]

LeLuthDoree is planning to offer a small theorbo that can be easily 
strung as a baroque lute.
It actually might be a perfect instrument for a classical guitarist 
making the switch.

RT


On 10/18/2017 5:59 PM, Daniel Shoskes wrote:

To answer your actual questions, I don’t think there are enough people who have 
played the Luth Dore baroque lutes to really get a balanced opinion. You might 
want to ask Rob MacKillop off line because he received an early model. Of 
course once they start to be mass produced one hopes there will be consistency 
between instruments. I don’t think you can make a blanket statement about 
bridge length. It really depends on your personal anatomy and how well the 
strings vibrate on the instrument. At that price point however there is little 
competition.

There are people who have filed their nails on an angle, allowing flesh only 
for lute playing and a flesh/nail interface for classical guitar and/or 
theorbo. Pat O’Brien was a prime example of someone who easily switched between 
all instruments in that way.  It’s actually the theorbo that has the hand 
position most similar to classical guitar, although there are differences for 
all the plucked lute family instruments. The primary difficulty with nails is 
cleanly striking both strings of a course together in unison. Especially that 
striking involves equal depression of both strings towards the soundboard and 
then follow through. A single strung theorbo avoids that problem, but you did 
say you wanted a baroque lute. Congratulations on that choice BTW, there is a 
surprising depth and breadth of music written in that tuning that traverses 
countries and styles. It’s truly a wonderful instrument and it has given me 
years of joy.

You didn’t say where you live. If in the USA or UK, the local lute societies 
have lute lending programs that would allow you to try out a lute first. If you 
could attend one of the many playing days in the UK or lute seminar in the USA 
you would have the chance to try multiple lutes with different sizes and 
configurations. More ideal than buying sight unseen, which sadly most of us end 
up doing in the end.

Danny


On Oct 18, 2017, at 2:58 AM, Ido Shdaimah  wrote:

   Hello fellow lute players and enthusiasts, I have a fair amount of
   money saved and I would like to buy a lute. Currently I am eyeing Le
   Luth Doré lutes, what is your take on these?
   I would like a baroque lute, but Roman Turovsky advises against them
   because of the 140cm bridge length, but I would like to hear other
   people on the issue too.
   More on these lutes: What is the difference between the cheaper and the
   more expensive versions?
   And finally, I currently play the classical guitar, and I'm not
   planning to give up on it. So what should I do concerning the
   nail/nail-less dispute? Should I find a middle ground, play nail-less
   on both or maybe play with nails?
   Thanks in advance.

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[David van Ooijen]

   I've played (Renaissance) lute, archlute, Baroque guitar and theorbo
   with nails for years. There's a 3-CD box with me playing theorbo
   continuo where over the course of the recording sessions I've shed my
   nails and went from synthetic strings to gut. Though it was a giant
   leap for me I think it's but a small step in the ears of the listeners.

   David
   On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 at 00:02, Daniel Shoskes
   <[1]kidneykut...@gmail.com> wrote:

 To answer your actual questions, I don't think there are enough
 people who have played the Luth Dore baroque lutes to really get a
 balanced opinion. You might want to ask Rob MacKillop off line
 because he received an early model. Of course once they start to be
 mass produced one hopes there will be consistency between
 instruments. I don't think you can make a blanket statement about
 bridge length. It really depends on your personal anatomy and how
 well the strings vibrate on the instrument. At that price point
 however there is little competition.
 There are people who have filed their nails on an angle, allowing
 flesh only for lute playing and a flesh/nail interface for classical
 guitar and/or theorbo. Pat O'Brien was a prime example of someone
 who easily switched between all instruments in that way.   It's
 actually the theorbo that has the hand position most similar to
 classical guitar, although there are differences for all the plucked
 lute family instruments. The primary difficulty with nails is
 cleanly striking both strings of a course together in unison.
 Especially that striking involves equal depression of both strings
 towards the soundboard and then follow through. A single strung
 theorbo avoids that problem, but you did say you wanted a baroque
 lute. Congratulations on that choice BTW, there is a surprising
 depth and breadth of music written in that tuning that traverses
 countries and styles. It's truly a wonderful instrument and it has
 given me years of joy.
 You didn't say where you live. If in the USA or UK, the local lute
 societies have lute lending programs that would allow you to try out
 a lute first. If you could attend one of the many playing days in
 the UK or lute seminar in the USA you would have the chance to try
 multiple lutes with different sizes and configurations. More ideal
 than buying sight unseen, which sadly most of us end up doing in the
 end.
 Danny
 > On Oct 18, 2017, at 2:58 AM, Ido Shdaimah <[2]ishdai...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
 >
 >Hello fellow lute players and enthusiasts, I have a fair amount
 of
 >money saved and I would like to buy a lute. Currently I am
 eyeing Le
 >Luth Dorà © lutes, what is your take on these?
 >I would like a baroque lute, but Roman Turovsky advises against
 them
 >because of the 140cm bridge length, but I would like to hear
 other
 >people on the issue too.
 >More on these lutes: What is the difference between the cheaper
 and the
 >more expensive versions?
 >And finally, I currently play the classical guitar, and I'm not
 >planning to give up on it. So what should I do concerning the
 >nail/nail-less dispute? Should I find a middle ground, play
 nail-less
 >on both or maybe play with nails?
 >Thanks in advance.
 >
 >--
 >
 >
 > To get on or off this list see list information at
 > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [5]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***

   --

References

   1. mailto:kidneykut...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:ishdai...@gmail.com
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   4. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   5. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/

[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Daniel Shoskes]

To answer your actual questions, I don’t think there are enough people who have 
played the Luth Dore baroque lutes to really get a balanced opinion. You might 
want to ask Rob MacKillop off line because he received an early model. Of 
course once they start to be mass produced one hopes there will be consistency 
between instruments. I don’t think you can make a blanket statement about 
bridge length. It really depends on your personal anatomy and how well the 
strings vibrate on the instrument. At that price point however there is little 
competition.

There are people who have filed their nails on an angle, allowing flesh only 
for lute playing and a flesh/nail interface for classical guitar and/or 
theorbo. Pat O’Brien was a prime example of someone who easily switched between 
all instruments in that way.  It’s actually the theorbo that has the hand 
position most similar to classical guitar, although there are differences for 
all the plucked lute family instruments. The primary difficulty with nails is 
cleanly striking both strings of a course together in unison. Especially that 
striking involves equal depression of both strings towards the soundboard and 
then follow through. A single strung theorbo avoids that problem, but you did 
say you wanted a baroque lute. Congratulations on that choice BTW, there is a 
surprising depth and breadth of music written in that tuning that traverses 
countries and styles. It’s truly a wonderful instrument and it has given me 
years of joy.

You didn’t say where you live. If in the USA or UK, the local lute societies 
have lute lending programs that would allow you to try out a lute first. If you 
could attend one of the many playing days in the UK or lute seminar in the USA 
you would have the chance to try multiple lutes with different sizes and 
configurations. More ideal than buying sight unseen, which sadly most of us end 
up doing in the end.

Danny

> On Oct 18, 2017, at 2:58 AM, Ido Shdaimah  wrote:
> 
>   Hello fellow lute players and enthusiasts, I have a fair amount of
>   money saved and I would like to buy a lute. Currently I am eyeing Le
>   Luth Doré lutes, what is your take on these?
>   I would like a baroque lute, but Roman Turovsky advises against them
>   because of the 140cm bridge length, but I would like to hear other
>   people on the issue too.
>   More on these lutes: What is the difference between the cheaper and the
>   more expensive versions?
>   And finally, I currently play the classical guitar, and I'm not
>   planning to give up on it. So what should I do concerning the
>   nail/nail-less dispute? Should I find a middle ground, play nail-less
>   on both or maybe play with nails?
>   Thanks in advance.
> 
>   --
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Dan Winheld]

I second Ron's RH recommendation very strongly, but it's not always 
simple merely because one maintains a thumb -out orientation. I would 
add a few points-


1. Within the general orientation of thumb-out only, there are 
nevertheless some very different RH angles that have all been used on 
Classical Guitar- I was taught a very bent stiff "Segovia" style that in 
no way resembles any historic 17th-18th century thumb out; (or for that 
matter late 18th - early 19th century guitar thumb out!) and by the time 
I got a decent B-lute -decades later, I moved into a more historically 
based thumb out style after having first implanted R-lute thumb under, 
followed by 10 course transitional thumb out.


Little finger down on the top; highly restrictive if not fatally 
destructive to Torres & post-Torres guitars (elevated fingerboard!) -can 
be a good thing for initially acquiring orientation for the RH and 
discharge tension while learning. Eventually, as also attested to by E. 
G. Baron , the more advanced player is free to lose that little finger 
contact as often as necessary to move around & play with greater freedom 
of expression. On my 13course lute I absolutely cannot play with that 
finger tied down anywhere on the lute top, except for very occasional 
situations. It just happens naturally when necessary.


2. At this stage of general lute knowledge I would be very surprised if 
there is anyone, anywhere who would dispute that there are differing 
techniques appropriate to differing instruments, times, uses, 
provenances, etc. as amply demonstrated in countless iconographic 
sources and writings.


3. Nails? Before you do anything, just try them and see how it works. 
Without getting into historicity, I have known several nail players who 
get just as good (1 player) and almost as good tone quality as decent 
finger-tip players. And the absolutely worst harsh sound I have ever 
heard on a lute was attained by a no-nails player!  I personally had to 
rid myself of nails (no longer interested in modern conventional 
classical guitar player, certainly no professional commitments or 
aspirations).


And of course- as mentioned- plenty of historical precedents (including 
some 20th century players) for no-nails classical guitar. You makes your 
choices and your "mileage may vary".


4. Bridge width- you need to get a set-up that fits YOU! -whatever that 
requires. Like buying shoes, pants, whatever- "If the lute don't fit, 
you'll have to quit."


Dan Winheld



On 10/18/2017 6:37 AM, Ron Andrico wrote:

I forgot to reply to all.
  __

From: Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 1:36 PM
    To: Ido Shdaimah
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Buying a Lute

I'll step in with some personal insights on your questions.

Without passing judgement on the output of the many excellent luthiers
across the globe, nor of recent efforts to produce instruments at a
lower cost utilizing labor from a rapidly emerging world power, buy the
best lute you can afford.  More importantly, buy an instrument from
someone who can promise to make adjustments and repairs as needed,
because you will need them.

As a classical guitarist, you will likely be more successful with
baroque lute.  Most baroque music is much more accessible, with a more
familiar treble and bass texture.  There is plenty of accessible
earlier music for renaissance lute, but the more satisfying music for
this instrument demands much deeper study in order to manage
polyphony.  With most baroque repertory, you get to play pretty
melodies with occasional added inner texture.  The work is in getting
your thumb to gracefully manage the bass notes (not like a
sledgehammer), most of which are open strings.  Further, the
historically appropriate right-hand technique for baroque lute is
really the same as that for classical guitar.  I will be dogmatic on
this point by asserting that the renaissance "thumb-under" approach on
baroque lute is historically indefensible and a complete absurdity.

Since you don't wish to give up on classical guitar, whether you choose
to use nails or not is really immaterial, unless you are interested in
playing on gut strings.  Gut strings plus nails equals large buckets of
money to replace strings that may only last a few days.  On the other
hand, many classical guitarists today are cutting their nails and
following the advice of Fernando Sor by playing with the fingertips.

Whatever you choose to buy and however you choose to approach the
instrument and its music, don't be taken in by people who will tell you
there is only one correct approach, my comments on the "thumb-under"
technique notwithstanding.  In that particular case, I'm telling you
that ne

[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Ed Durbrow]

You could file your nails on one side.

On Oct 18, 2017, at 3:58 PM, Ido Shdaimah  wrote:

> I currently play the classical guitar, and I'm not
>   planning to give up on it. So what should I do concerning the
>   nail/nail-less dispute? Should I find a middle ground, play nail-less
>   on both or maybe play with nails?

Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/








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[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Kay Lay]

Thanks, everyone, for your advice! I got two recommendations for
Marcello and an e-mail from him, so I am strongly considering his
6-course Duiffopruchar:
http://www.armandpilon.com/galleries/duiffo6.html

Another lute I really liked was the Descant by Larry Brown:
http://lkbrownviolins.com/descant_lute.htm

And the third, the most beautiful one:
http://www.lucianofaria.com/Imagens/WendelioVenere1.jpg
It is also the cheapest (perhaps because of the 44 cm string-length),
and is a treble lute; I'm not sure what difference this makes.

Anyway, does anyone have an opinion on which one I ought to choose?
They are all fine lutes, I think.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Edward Martin]

There is a great difference  The diuffonbruchar is 64 cm, tuned in 
f.  The other 2 are soprano lutes, at 44 cm, tuned in high c or 
d.  The higher pitched instruments are very nice for some ensemble 
playing, but I would get an all-around better instrument that would serve 
all purposes, so something in g would work best.

ed

At 03:54 PM 9/22/2006 -0400, Kay Lay wrote:
Thanks, everyone, for your advice! I got two recommendations for
Marcello and an e-mail from him, so I am strongly considering his
6-course Duiffopruchar:
http://www.armandpilon.com/galleries/duiffo6.html

Another lute I really liked was the Descant by Larry Brown:
http://lkbrownviolins.com/descant_lute.htm

And the third, the most beautiful one:
http://www.lucianofaria.com/Imagens/WendelioVenere1.jpg
It is also the cheapest (perhaps because of the 44 cm string-length),
and is a treble lute; I'm not sure what difference this makes.

Anyway, does anyone have an opinion on which one I ought to choose?
They are all fine lutes, I think.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202

[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[LGS-Europe]

 playing, but I would get an all-around better instrument that would serve
 all purposes, so something in g would work best.

Absolutely. And if _small_ size matters for you, try and find a lute of 58 
to 60cm tuned in g'. That is smallest for g' in 440, still practical. 64cm 
will get you into trouble if you want to tune it to g' at 440 with several 
kinds of strings (not just gut).

David


 ed

 At 03:54 PM 9/22/2006 -0400, Kay Lay wrote:
Thanks, everyone, for your advice! I got two recommendations for
Marcello and an e-mail from him, so I am strongly considering his
6-course Duiffopruchar:
http://www.armandpilon.com/galleries/duiffo6.html

Another lute I really liked was the Descant by Larry Brown:
http://lkbrownviolins.com/descant_lute.htm

And the third, the most beautiful one:
http://www.lucianofaria.com/Imagens/WendelioVenere1.jpg
It is also the cheapest (perhaps because of the 44 cm string-length),
and is a treble lute; I'm not sure what difference this makes.

Anyway, does anyone have an opinion on which one I ought to choose?
They are all fine lutes, I think.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



 Edward Martin
 2817 East 2nd Street
 Duluth, Minnesota  55812
 e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 voice:  (218) 728-1202



 

[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Edward Martin]

Precisely, David.

ed

At 10:48 PM 9/22/2006 +0200, LGS-Europe wrote:
playing, but I would get an all-around better instrument that would serve
all purposes, so something in g would work best.

Absolutely. And if _small_ size matters for you, try and find a lute of 58 
to 60cm tuned in g'. That is smallest for g' in 440, still practical. 64cm 
will get you into trouble if you want to tune it to g' at 440 with several 
kinds of strings (not just gut).

David


ed

At 03:54 PM 9/22/2006 -0400, Kay Lay wrote:
Thanks, everyone, for your advice! I got two recommendations for
Marcello and an e-mail from him, so I am strongly considering his
6-course Duiffopruchar:
http://www.armandpilon.com/galleries/duiffo6.html

Another lute I really liked was the Descant by Larry Brown:
http://lkbrownviolins.com/descant_lute.htm

And the third, the most beautiful one:
http://www.lucianofaria.com/Imagens/WendelioVenere1.jpg
It is also the cheapest (perhaps because of the 44 cm string-length),
and is a treble lute; I'm not sure what difference this makes.

Anyway, does anyone have an opinion on which one I ought to choose?
They are all fine lutes, I think.



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Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202







Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202

[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[KennethBeLute]

I would recommend staying away from a descant lute as a first  instrument.  
This lute is best when played in an ensemble with other lutes  of varying sizes 
and pitches.  My opinion: go for the 6 course  Duiffopruchar model!  You 
will be able to play most of the renaissance  lute repertoire on this lute and 
it is a good size to start with , fitting well  to the average person's hand 
and arm size.
 
Kenneth

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[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Manolo Laguillo]

Hi,

I agree with what Ariel says:

In my experience, I would go for the best possible instrument, specially if 
you want to study the lute seriously.


But let me explain the reasons, that are, among others, the following:

- a good instrument is easier to tune, and it stays tuned, both 
regarding pegs and frets;
- it has a good action, which means the left hand works way much better;
- it has a good balance between the different registers;
- it obeys your will regarding dynamics: if you play piano it sounds 
piano, and if you play forte, it sounds forte.

Briefly said: a bad instrument requires much more knowledge on the side 
of the player to sound well.

The tuning is specially important: even if very slightly untuned, the 
lute sounds bad, and the player tends to blame him/herself for something 
that is not his/her technique, but rather a bad tuning. That is, BTW, 
something that, if teached, can save many headaches to the student. The 
teacher must teach how to tune; a book can't explain the little gestures 
and arrangements that make the difference.

Saludos from Barcelona,

Manolo Laguillo

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[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Kay Lay]

Unfortunately, lute teachers aren't exactly commonplace, and that is
not an option for where I live (Mississippi). But, with an electronic
tuner to tell me when I'm on the right note, it's not really possible
to be WRONG when tuning, even if it is not the most perfect way of
doing it. I just have to do the best I can using literature.

Whew! Even from the responses there is so much to choose from. Arthur:
where could I find a professional lutenist to do that for me? $100 is
definitely resonable for such an important decision.

Martin: I know that the instrument isn't the only problem oftentimes,
and I certainly was willing to accept that I just didn't know
something which would enable me to make that stretch...but I was sad
to finally admit, after manually stretching my fingers across the
strings with the other hand and still finding it a good length away
from possible, that I simply had a poor lute.
Here is the lute and book I had: http://www.musicoutfitters.com/ethnic/lute.htm
I still have the lute, but it's back home in Richmond, VA.

Hmm...I considered it, David, but I think I would rather have a new
lute, because it would be more personal. =)

Unfortunately I don't remember the name of any of the songs I played,
although I used to have a couple memorized...

Thanks to everyone for your good advice! Hopefully I can find a
lutenist to help me choose.



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[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Kay Lay]

Jeffrey,

Who is this classical guitarist?? I never imagined there'd be someone
involved with lute-teaching down here. =)



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[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Ed Durbrow]

On Sep 20, 2006, at 11:27 PM, Kay Lay wrote:

 I soon reached a song which was impossible to play, due
 to the stretches required. No matter how much I stretched out my
 fingers (I am nineteen, and my ring size is 7), I would never have
 been able to do it; the lute was simply too big for me. I gave up for
 the time and have for about a year been missing playing my lute. I
 looked up some pages online for Italian lutes, such as that of Paolo
 Busato and Marco Salerno. With so many sellers and so many different
 kinds of lutes, it is difficult for me to find one to suit me now that
 I have enough money to buy a real lute!

Are you looking for an Italian maker? Marcello Armand-Pilon is very  
good.

Please promise you won't give up for a year again when you run up  
against a difficult piece! There are tens of thousands of pieces to  
choose from. You are bound to find something that is impossible to  
play on nearly any lute and by the same token you will find lots of  
beautiful music that fits your hands and your lute.

It would be interesting to see what the tab looked like that was so  
difficult.



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[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Stephan . Olbertz]

Renatus Lechner makes a very good smaller seven-course lute of 56 cm string 
length 
after Jakob Hes. And his lutes are cheap for the quality you get. See 
www.renatus-
lechner.de
However, any real instrument is easier to play than these Pakistani pieces of 
furniture, 
the usual string length of around 60 cm is ok for most of us. Get yourself a 
teacher 
and more easy pieces. Learn a proper technique carefully this way, saves you 
much 
time and gives more joy.

Regards,

Stephan

Am 20 Sep 2006 um 10:27 hat Kay Lay geschrieben:

 Hello,
 
 About a year ago I learned three or four songs from my beginner's
 lute-book, on a cheap Pakistani lute which cost me about $600.
 Unfortunately I soon reached a song which was impossible to play, due
 to the stretches required. No matter how much I stretched out my
 fingers (I am nineteen, and my ring size is 7), I would never have
 been able to do it; the lute was simply too big for me. I gave up for
 the time and have for about a year been missing playing my lute. I
 looked up some pages online for Italian lutes, such as that of Paolo
 Busato and Marco Salerno. With so many sellers and so many different
 kinds of lutes, it is difficult for me to find one to suit me now that
 I have enough money to buy a real lute! I could spend as much as
 $5,000; however, what I would really like is one between $1,000 and
 $2,500. I have a preference for Renaissance and specifically Italian
 lutes. Please, could you give me advice about purchasing one that
 would suit me? Otherwise I may just make another mistake.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Kay
 
 
 
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[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[ariel abramovich]

Hi,

In my experience, I would go for the best possible instrument, specially if 
you want to study the lute seriously.
I is better to invest right at the beginning (if you can afford it, 
obviously), as selling and buying normally menas loosing money.
Many good makers have fairly long waiting lists, which may be a problem, but 
some other don't, and there're many good and/or decent second hand 
instruments.
I can recommend specific names and models, if you want, depending on where 
you are. Email privately, better.

Good luck,
Ariel

 About a year ago I learned three or four songs from my beginner's
 lute-book, on a cheap Pakistani lute which cost me about $600.
 Unfortunately I soon reached a song which was impossible to play, due
 to the stretches required. No matter how much I stretched out my
 fingers (I am nineteen, and my ring size is 7), I would never have
 been able to do it; the lute was simply too big for me. I gave up for
 the time and have for about a year been missing playing my lute. I
 looked up some pages online for Italian lutes, such as that of Paolo
 Busato and Marco Salerno. With so many sellers and so many different
 kinds of lutes, it is difficult for me to find one to suit me now that
 I have enough money to buy a real lute! I could spend as much as
 $5,000; however, what I would really like is one between $1,000 and
 $2,500. I have a preference for Renaissance and specifically Italian
 lutes. Please, could you give me advice about purchasing one that
 would suit me? Otherwise I may just make another mistake.

 Thanks,

 Kay



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