[LUTE] Re: Original composers of some songs
Thanks. That's extremely helpful. One question I have: If the setting of "On en dira" is not by Sermisy, where does the melody come from? Perhaps a popular melody of the time, as with "Il est bel et bon"? --Sarge On 8/13/2019 13:13, Arthur Ness wrote: You might want to check, especially, pages 301-04 and 329-30 in vol. 1. And the concordances and cognates and thematics in vol. 2. By the way "On en dira" is not by Sermisy. The two chansons share the same melody, but otherwise the settings do not agree. There is a direct concordance with one intabulation B[ernardo] N. in Munich 1511d (Sermisy or Le Peletier "Si mon malheure") with the same piece in the Marco fascicle. It is not unusual for a composer to include a few works by others (sometimes ones students) in a collected "edition" of a prominent composer. Marco's father was named Bernardo, but pieces by Sermisy generation composers would seem to modern for a person old enough to be Marco's father. I suggest possible lutenists named Bernardo in a footnote 36 of p. 304. (I seem to have had a Newsidler obsession back then.) -Original Message- From: Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. [1] To: [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu [3] Sent: Mon, Aug 12, 2019 9:17 pm Subject: [LUTE] Re: Original composers of some songs I don't think I am using HTML I have a copy of Art's dissertation, and it is searchable. I will check what I can glean from there. Thanks! --Sarge > Don't use HTML! > > >> --- >> >> I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS, trying to >> figure out who composed what. > > I assume you are talking about 266, right? > There are several "Herwarth manuscripts". > > Anyway, have a look at Arthur's dissertation: > > The Herwarth Lute Manuscripts at the Bavarian State Library, Munich > (Part 1) - A bibliographical study with Emphasis on the Works of Marco > dall'Aquila and Melchior Newsidler by Arthur J.Ness, February 1984 > (PhD Dissertation, New York University) > > The Herwarth Lute Manuscripts at the Bavarian State Library, Munich > (Part 2) - A bibliographical study with Emphasis on the Works of Marco > dall'Aquila and Melchior Newsidler by Arthur J.Ness, February 1984 > (PhD Dissertation, New York University) > > > It is available at the LSA web pages (possibly to members only) and > the text is searchable (probably run through some OCR Software). > > Rainer > > PS > > If you don't have (access to) the dissertation ask me - or Arthur :) > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net 2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Original composers of some songs
PS: To clarify, here's a recent mix. I am posting this because it cannot be denied that the percussion is spot-on with the Canzon. Also it highlights what I said: models are in use that can make a chanson as well as instrumental music. https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/claudio-merulo-canzon-vigesimaterza-raga-bageshree-ektaal-kaushiki-chakraborty (It is your free choice if you think this is coincidence or not, I don't care anymore.) On 13.08.19 22:46, Tristan von Neumann wrote: Dear Arthur, allow me to weigh in on the "on en dira". During that time, known melodies of chansons serve as models. It is highly probable that the other voices were improvised anyway (chord based modern instrumental counterpoint as opposed to oldschool vocal polyphony). So it makes sense to say "Sermisy", if he indeed invented the melody. Otherwise you need a new name for the model. Later, in Instrumental Canzonas (some are intabulated, see Barbarino and Donaueschingen), many unknown models are used or they are named differently, but the melody or soggetto is the same or very similar to older chansons. This is very confusing. Some possible intabulations of Instrumental Canzonas are even named "fantasy", like in Molinaro. The first one, for example is classic Chanson style, also some of Dowland's Fancies are similar. I assume people of the 16th century would always have named the piece after a chanson with the same model, if they can think of any. I don't like the terms "parody" or "paraphrase". The case of Albert de Rippe's "Pour ung plaisir" fantasy and the similar ones in Siena and Paris 429 come to mind. There is an underlying model to all of these and the chanson that is more than the mode, but not the actual chanson. The search for chanson models of certain fantasies are futile - there might be no Chanson, the models are invented, or searched (Ricercar...). Also the "Grefinger" Fantasy by Albert - or is it a "Gombert" Fantasy? Same model. The only real thing I know of are the Paladin Intabulations/Fantasy pairs where we can be sure they are meant as some kind of "paraphrase". (I won't say "Raga", but these new models are the real concept of the 16th century, not the modes which fail to describe pieces like Pierino's Fantasia No. 18 in Siena.) Recommendation: Frank Heidlberger "Canzon da Sonar" (in German) to get an overview of the genre beyond Lute music. A good read that questions the terminology and shows the confusion. :) T* On 13.08.19 22:13, Arthur Ness wrote: You might want to check, especially, pages 301-04 and 329-30 in vol. 1. And the concordances and cognates and thematics in vol. 2. By the way "On en dira" is not by Sermisy. The two chansons share the same melody, but otherwise the settings do not agree. There is a direct concordance with one intabulation B[ernardo] N. in Munich 1511d (Sermisy or Le Peletier "Si mon malheure") with the same piece in the Marco fascicle. It is not unusual for a composer to include a few works by others (sometimes ones students) in a collected "edition" of a prominent composer. Marco's father was named Bernardo, but pieces by Sermisy generation composers would seem to modern for a person old enough to be Marco's father. I suggest possible lutenists named Bernardo in a footnote 36 of p. 304. (I seem to have had a Newsidler obsession back then.) -----Original Message- From: Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, Aug 12, 2019 9:17 pm Subject: [LUTE] Re: Original composers of some songs I don't think I am using HTML I have a copy of Art's dissertation, and it is searchable. I will check what I can glean from there. Thanks! --Sarge > Don't use HTML! > > >> --- >> >> I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS, trying to >> figure out who composed what. > > I assume you are talking about 266, right? > There are several "Herwarth manuscripts". > > Anyway, have a look at Arthur's dissertation: > > The Herwarth Lute Manuscripts at the Bavarian State Library, Munich > (Part 1) - A bibliographical study with Emphasis on the Works of Marco > dall'Aquila and Melchior Newsidler by Arthur J.Ness, February 1984 > (PhD Dissertation, New York University) > > The Herwarth Lute Manuscripts at the Bavarian State Library, Munich > (Part 2) - A bibliographical study with Emphasis on the Works of Marco > dall'Aquila and Melchior Newsidler by Arthur J.Ness, February 1984 > (PhD Dissertation, New York University) > > > It is available at the LSA web pages (possibly
[LUTE] Re: Original composers of some songs
Dear Arthur,
allow me to weigh in on the "on en dira".
During that time, known melodies of chansons serve as models.
It is highly probable that the other voices were improvised anyway
(chord based modern instrumental counterpoint as opposed to oldschool
vocal polyphony).
So it makes sense to say "Sermisy", if he indeed invented the melody.
Otherwise you need a new name for the model.
Later, in Instrumental Canzonas (some are intabulated, see Barbarino and
Donaueschingen),
many unknown models are used or they are named differently, but the
melody or soggetto is the same or very similar to older chansons.
This is very confusing.
Some possible intabulations of Instrumental Canzonas are even named
"fantasy", like in Molinaro.
The first one, for example is classic Chanson style, also some of
Dowland's Fancies are similar.
I assume people of the 16th century would always have named the piece
after a chanson with the same model, if they can think of any.
I don't like the terms "parody" or "paraphrase".
The case of Albert de Rippe's "Pour ung plaisir" fantasy and the similar
ones in Siena and Paris 429 come to mind.
There is an underlying model to all of these and the chanson that is
more than the mode, but not the actual chanson.
The search for chanson models of certain fantasies are futile - there
might be no Chanson, the models are invented, or searched (Ricercar...).
Also the "Grefinger" Fantasy by Albert - or is it a "Gombert" Fantasy?
Same model.
The only real thing I know of are the Paladin Intabulations/Fantasy
pairs where we can be sure they are meant as some kind of "paraphrase".
(I won't say "Raga", but these new models are the real concept of the
16th century, not the modes which fail to describe pieces like Pierino's
Fantasia No. 18 in Siena.)
Recommendation: Frank Heidlberger "Canzon da Sonar" (in German) to get
an overview of the genre beyond Lute music.
A good read that questions the terminology and shows the confusion.
:)
T*
On 13.08.19 22:13, Arthur Ness wrote:
You might want to check, especially, pages 301-04 and 329-30 in vol.
1. And the concordances and cognates and thematics in vol. 2.
By the way "On en dira" is not by Sermisy. The two chansons share the
same melody, but otherwise the settings do not agree.
There is a direct concordance with one intabulation B[ernardo] N. in
Munich 1511d (Sermisy or Le Peletier "Si mon malheure") with the same
piece in the Marco fascicle. It is not unusual for a composer to
include a few works by others (sometimes ones students) in a collected
"edition" of a prominent composer. Marco's father was named Bernardo,
but pieces by Sermisy generation composers would seem to modern for a
person old enough to be Marco's father. I suggest possible lutenists
named Bernardo in a footnote 36 of p. 304. (I seem to have had a
Newsidler obsession back then.)
-----Original Message-
From: Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Mon, Aug 12, 2019 9:17 pm
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Original composers of some songs
I don't think I am using HTML
I have a copy of Art's dissertation, and it is searchable.
I will check what I can glean from there.
Thanks!
--Sarge
> Don't use HTML!
>
>
>> ---
>>
>> I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS, trying
to
>> figure out who composed what.
>
> I assume you are talking about 266, right?
> There are several "Herwarth manuscripts".
>
> Anyway, have a look at Arthur's dissertation:
>
> The Herwarth Lute Manuscripts at the Bavarian State Library, Munich
> (Part 1) - A bibliographical study with Emphasis on the Works of
Marco
> dall'Aquila and Melchior Newsidler by Arthur J.Ness, February 1984
> (PhD Dissertation, New York University)
>
> The Herwarth Lute Manuscripts at the Bavarian State Library, Munich
> (Part 2) - A bibliographical study with Emphasis on the Works of
Marco
> dall'Aquila and Melchior Newsidler by Arthur J.Ness, February 1984
> (PhD Dissertation, New York University)
>
>
> It is available at the LSA web pages (possibly to members only) and
> the text is searchable (probably run through some OCR Software).
>
> Rainer
>
> PS
>
> If you don't have (access to) the dissertation ask me - or Arthur :)
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
References
1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Original composers of some songs
You might want to check, especially, pages 301-04 and 329-30 in vol. 1. And the concordances and cognates and thematics in vol. 2. By the way "On en dira" is not by Sermisy. The two chansons share the same melody, but otherwise the settings do not agree. There is a direct concordance with one intabulation B[ernardo] N. in Munich 1511d (Sermisy or Le Peletier "Si mon malheure") with the same piece in the Marco fascicle. It is not unusual for a composer to include a few works by others (sometimes ones students) in a collected "edition" of a prominent composer. Marco's father was named Bernardo, but pieces by Sermisy generation composers would seem to modern for a person old enough to be Marco's father. I suggest possible lutenists named Bernardo in a footnote 36 of p. 304. (I seem to have had a Newsidler obsession back then.) -Original Message- From: Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, Aug 12, 2019 9:17 pm Subject: [LUTE] Re: Original composers of some songs I don't think I am using HTML I have a copy of Art's dissertation, and it is searchable. I will check what I can glean from there. Thanks! --Sarge > Don't use HTML! > > >> --- >> >> I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS, trying to >> figure out who composed what. > > I assume you are talking about 266, right? > There are several "Herwarth manuscripts". > > Anyway, have a look at Arthur's dissertation: > > The Herwarth Lute Manuscripts at the Bavarian State Library, Munich > (Part 1) - A bibliographical study with Emphasis on the Works of Marco > dall'Aquila and Melchior Newsidler by Arthur J.Ness, February 1984 > (PhD Dissertation, New York University) > > The Herwarth Lute Manuscripts at the Bavarian State Library, Munich > (Part 2) - A bibliographical study with Emphasis on the Works of Marco > dall'Aquila and Melchior Newsidler by Arthur J.Ness, February 1984 > (PhD Dissertation, New York University) > > > It is available at the LSA web pages (possibly to members only) and > the text is searchable (probably run through some OCR Software). > > Rainer > > PS > > If you don't have (access to) the dissertation ask me - or Arthur :) > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Original composers of some songs
Thanks! Very helpful. Seems the scribe (Bernardo?) heard the title but
didn't see it in writing...
--Sarge
On 8/12/2019 11:52, Andre Nieuwlaat wrote:
#94 Qui vouldra scavoir qui je suis - Pierre Sandrin. First published
by Moderne, 1538.
Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:40 schreef Andre Nieuwlaat
<[1]ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com>:
#81 Contentez-vous, amy, de la pensée - Sermisy, publ. 1536.
Other lute setting in Phalese, Theatrum Musicum (1563), fol. 30v
('Contente vous amy')
Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:35 schreef Andre Nieuwlaat
<[2]ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com>:
#77 ?? Si ung oeuvre parfaict doibt chascun contenter - Sermisy, publ.
1533.
4-part setting in Attaingnant, Chansons musicales a quatre parties
(1533), No. 20
Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:25 schreef Andre Nieuwlaat
<[3]ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com>:
#78 Vous usurpez injustement dames le commander, by Pierre Sandrin,
[4]publ.by Moderne in 1540.
Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:13 schreef Andre Nieuwlaat
<[5]ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com>:
Brown's index:
#79 On en dira ce qu'on voudra (Sermisy)
other settings in
- 1562-10 De Rippe, Tiers livre fol. 22r
- 1574-7 Phalèse Bellère, Thesaurus Musicus fol. 43r
Will have a look at the others later !
André
Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:05 schreef Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.
<[6]sa...@gerbode.net>:
--E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sorry, I included a bunch of irrelevant material in my last posting.
Here is a cleaner version.
---
I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS, trying
to
figure out who composed what.
I did figure out most of them, but a few have me stymied. I may
not
have gotten the titles exactly right, but this is my best shot.
Maybe
someone here knows the answer?
Some are attributed to B or Bernardo, but this seems to be the
intabulator, rather than the original composer.
#73 A la ventura
#77 Si une heure perfect
#78 Vous vsurpe
#79 Or dira ce que vouldre
#81 Content de vous
#93 *Ce qui soloyt*
#94 Ciel vouldra sauoys qui je suis
These are not the final edited versions... Still working on that.
Any help is appreciated. I will probably come up with a few more
also
in the near future.
--Sarge
--E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sorry, I included a bunch of irrelevant material in my last
posting. Here is a cleaner version.
---
I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS,
trying
to figure out who composed what.
I did figure out most of them, but a few have me stymied. I
may not
have gotten the titles exactly right, but this is my best shot.
Maybe someone here knows the answer?
Some are attributed to B or Bernardo, but this seems to be the
intabulator, rather than the original composer.
#73 A la ventura
#77 Si une heure perfect
#78 Vous vsurpe
#79 Or dira ce que vouldre
#81 Content de vous
#93 Ce
qui soloyt
#94 Ciel vouldra sauoys qui je suis
These are not the final edited versions... Still working on
that.
Any help is appreciated. I will probably come up with a few
more
also in the near future.
--Sarge
--E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE--
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
[7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com
2. mailto:ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com
3. mailto:ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com
4. http://publ.by/
5. mailto:ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com
6. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Original composers of some songs
I don't think I am using HTML I have a copy of Art's dissertation, and it is searchable. I will check what I can glean from there. Thanks! --Sarge Don't use HTML! --- I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS, trying to figure out who composed what. I assume you are talking about 266, right? There are several "Herwarth manuscripts". Anyway, have a look at Arthur's dissertation: The Herwarth Lute Manuscripts at the Bavarian State Library, Munich (Part 1) - A bibliographical study with Emphasis on the Works of Marco dall'Aquila and Melchior Newsidler by Arthur J.Ness, February 1984 (PhD Dissertation, New York University) The Herwarth Lute Manuscripts at the Bavarian State Library, Munich (Part 2) - A bibliographical study with Emphasis on the Works of Marco dall'Aquila and Melchior Newsidler by Arthur J.Ness, February 1984 (PhD Dissertation, New York University) It is available at the LSA web pages (possibly to members only) and the text is searchable (probably run through some OCR Software). Rainer PS If you don't have (access to) the dissertation ask me - or Arthur :) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Original composers of some songs
#94 Qui vouldra scavoir qui je suis - Pierre Sandrin. First published
by Moderne, 1538.
Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:40 schreef Andre Nieuwlaat
<[1]ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com>:
#81 Contentez-vous, amy, de la pensée - Sermisy, publ. 1536.
Other lute setting in Phalese, Theatrum Musicum (1563), fol. 30v
('Contente vous amy')
Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:35 schreef Andre Nieuwlaat
<[2]ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com>:
#77 ?? Si ung oeuvre parfaict doibt chascun contenter - Sermisy, publ.
1533.
4-part setting in Attaingnant, Chansons musicales a quatre parties
(1533), No. 20
Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:25 schreef Andre Nieuwlaat
<[3]ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com>:
#78 Vous usurpez injustement dames le commander, by Pierre Sandrin,
[4]publ.by Moderne in 1540.
Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:13 schreef Andre Nieuwlaat
<[5]ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com>:
Brown's index:
#79 On en dira ce qu'on voudra (Sermisy)
other settings in
- 1562-10 De Rippe, Tiers livre fol. 22r
- 1574-7 Phalèse Bellère, Thesaurus Musicus fol. 43r
Will have a look at the others later !
André
Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:05 schreef Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.
<[6]sa...@gerbode.net>:
--E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sorry, I included a bunch of irrelevant material in my last posting.
Here is a cleaner version.
---
I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS, trying
to
figure out who composed what.
I did figure out most of them, but a few have me stymied. I may
not
have gotten the titles exactly right, but this is my best shot.
Maybe
someone here knows the answer?
Some are attributed to B or Bernardo, but this seems to be the
intabulator, rather than the original composer.
#73 A la ventura
#77 Si une heure perfect
#78 Vous vsurpe
#79 Or dira ce que vouldre
#81 Content de vous
#93 *Ce qui soloyt*
#94 Ciel vouldra sauoys qui je suis
These are not the final edited versions... Still working on that.
Any help is appreciated. I will probably come up with a few more
also
in the near future.
--Sarge
--E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sorry, I included a bunch of irrelevant material in my last
posting. Here is a cleaner version.
---
I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS,
trying
to figure out who composed what.
I did figure out most of them, but a few have me stymied. I
may not
have gotten the titles exactly right, but this is my best shot.
Maybe someone here knows the answer?
Some are attributed to B or Bernardo, but this seems to be the
intabulator, rather than the original composer.
#73 A la ventura
#77 Si une heure perfect
#78 Vous vsurpe
#79 Or dira ce que vouldre
#81 Content de vous
#93 Ce
qui soloyt
#94 Ciel vouldra sauoys qui je suis
These are not the final edited versions... Still working on
that.
Any help is appreciated. I will probably come up with a few
more
also in the near future.
--Sarge
--E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE--
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
[7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com
2. mailto:ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com
3. mailto:ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com
4. http://publ.by/
5. mailto:ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com
6. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Original composers of some songs
On 12.08.2019 20:04, Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. wrote: Don't use HTML! --- I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS, trying to figure out who composed what. I assume you are talking about 266, right? There are several "Herwarth manuscripts". Anyway, have a look at Arthur's dissertation: The Herwarth Lute Manuscripts at the Bavarian State Library, Munich (Part 1) - A bibliographical study with Emphasis on the Works of Marco dall'Aquila and Melchior Newsidler by Arthur J.Ness, February 1984 (PhD Dissertation, New York University) The Herwarth Lute Manuscripts at the Bavarian State Library, Munich (Part 2) - A bibliographical study with Emphasis on the Works of Marco dall'Aquila and Melchior Newsidler by Arthur J.Ness, February 1984 (PhD Dissertation, New York University) It is available at the LSA web pages (possibly to members only) and the text is searchable (probably run through some OCR Software). Rainer PS If you don't have (access to) the dissertation ask me - or Arthur :) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Original composers of some songs
#81 Contentez-vous, amy, de la pensée - Sermisy, publ. 1536.
Other lute setting in Phalese, Theatrum Musicum (1563), fol. 30v
('Contente vous amy')
Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:35 schreef Andre Nieuwlaat
<[1]ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com>:
#77 ?? Si ung oeuvre parfaict doibt chascun contenter - Sermisy, publ.
1533.
4-part setting in Attaingnant, Chansons musicales a quatre parties
(1533), No. 20
Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:25 schreef Andre Nieuwlaat
<[2]ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com>:
#78 Vous usurpez injustement dames le commander, by Pierre Sandrin,
[3]publ.by Moderne in 1540.
Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:13 schreef Andre Nieuwlaat
<[4]ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com>:
Brown's index:
#79 On en dira ce qu'on voudra (Sermisy)
other settings in
- 1562-10 De Rippe, Tiers livre fol. 22r
- 1574-7 Phalèse Bellère, Thesaurus Musicus fol. 43r
Will have a look at the others later !
André
Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:05 schreef Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.
<[5]sa...@gerbode.net>:
--E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sorry, I included a bunch of irrelevant material in my last posting.
Here is a cleaner version.
---
I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS, trying
to
figure out who composed what.
I did figure out most of them, but a few have me stymied. I may
not
have gotten the titles exactly right, but this is my best shot.
Maybe
someone here knows the answer?
Some are attributed to B or Bernardo, but this seems to be the
intabulator, rather than the original composer.
#73 A la ventura
#77 Si une heure perfect
#78 Vous vsurpe
#79 Or dira ce que vouldre
#81 Content de vous
#93 *Ce qui soloyt*
#94 Ciel vouldra sauoys qui je suis
These are not the final edited versions... Still working on that.
Any help is appreciated. I will probably come up with a few more
also
in the near future.
--Sarge
--E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sorry, I included a bunch of irrelevant material in my last
posting. Here is a cleaner version.
---
I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS,
trying
to figure out who composed what.
I did figure out most of them, but a few have me stymied. I
may not
have gotten the titles exactly right, but this is my best shot.
Maybe someone here knows the answer?
Some are attributed to B or Bernardo, but this seems to be the
intabulator, rather than the original composer.
#73 A la ventura
#77 Si une heure perfect
#78 Vous vsurpe
#79 Or dira ce que vouldre
#81 Content de vous
#93 Ce
qui soloyt
#94 Ciel vouldra sauoys qui je suis
These are not the final edited versions... Still working on
that.
Any help is appreciated. I will probably come up with a few
more
also in the near future.
--Sarge
--E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE--
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To get on or off this list see list information at
[6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
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References
1. mailto:ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com
2. mailto:ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com
3. http://publ.by/
4. mailto:ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com
5. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net
6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Original composers of some songs
#77 ?? Si ung oeuvre parfaict doibt chascun contenter - Sermisy, publ. 1533. 4-part setting in Attaingnant, Chansons musicales a quatre parties (1533), No. 20 Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:25 schreef Andre Nieuwlaat <[1]ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com>: #78 Vous usurpez injustement dames le commander, by Pierre Sandrin, [2]publ.by Moderne in 1540. Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:13 schreef Andre Nieuwlaat <[3]ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com>: Brown's index: #79 On en dira ce qu'on voudra (Sermisy) other settings in - 1562-10 De Rippe, Tiers livre fol. 22r - 1574-7 Phalèse Bellère, Thesaurus Musicus fol. 43r Will have a look at the others later ! André Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:05 schreef Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. <[4]sa...@gerbode.net>: --E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry, I included a bunch of irrelevant material in my last posting. Here is a cleaner version. --- I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS, trying to figure out who composed what. I did figure out most of them, but a few have me stymied. I may not have gotten the titles exactly right, but this is my best shot. Maybe someone here knows the answer? Some are attributed to B or Bernardo, but this seems to be the intabulator, rather than the original composer. #73 A la ventura #77 Si une heure perfect #78 Vous vsurpe #79 Or dira ce que vouldre #81 Content de vous #93 *Ce qui soloyt* #94 Ciel vouldra sauoys qui je suis These are not the final edited versions... Still working on that. Any help is appreciated. I will probably come up with a few more also in the near future. --Sarge --E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry, I included a bunch of irrelevant material in my last posting. Here is a cleaner version. --- I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS, trying to figure out who composed what. I did figure out most of them, but a few have me stymied. I may not have gotten the titles exactly right, but this is my best shot. Maybe someone here knows the answer? Some are attributed to B or Bernardo, but this seems to be the intabulator, rather than the original composer. #73 A la ventura #77 Si une heure perfect #78 Vous vsurpe #79 Or dira ce que vouldre #81 Content de vous #93 Ce qui soloyt #94 Ciel vouldra sauoys qui je suis These are not the final edited versions... Still working on that. Any help is appreciated. I will probably come up with a few more also in the near future. --Sarge --E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE-- -- To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com 2. http://publ.by/ 3. mailto:ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com 4. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Original composers of some songs
#78 Vous usurpez injustement dames le commander, by Pierre Sandrin, [1]publ.by Moderne in 1540. Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:13 schreef Andre Nieuwlaat <[2]ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com>: Brown's index: #79 On en dira ce qu'on voudra (Sermisy) other settings in - 1562-10 De Rippe, Tiers livre fol. 22r - 1574-7 Phalèse Bellère, Thesaurus Musicus fol. 43r Will have a look at the others later ! André Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:05 schreef Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. <[3]sa...@gerbode.net>: --E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry, I included a bunch of irrelevant material in my last posting. Here is a cleaner version. --- I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS, trying to figure out who composed what. I did figure out most of them, but a few have me stymied. I may not have gotten the titles exactly right, but this is my best shot. Maybe someone here knows the answer? Some are attributed to B or Bernardo, but this seems to be the intabulator, rather than the original composer. #73 A la ventura #77 Si une heure perfect #78 Vous vsurpe #79 Or dira ce que vouldre #81 Content de vous #93 *Ce qui soloyt* #94 Ciel vouldra sauoys qui je suis These are not the final edited versions... Still working on that. Any help is appreciated. I will probably come up with a few more also in the near future. --Sarge --E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry, I included a bunch of irrelevant material in my last posting. Here is a cleaner version. --- I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS, trying to figure out who composed what. I did figure out most of them, but a few have me stymied. I may not have gotten the titles exactly right, but this is my best shot. Maybe someone here knows the answer? Some are attributed to B or Bernardo, but this seems to be the intabulator, rather than the original composer. #73 A la ventura #77 Si une heure perfect #78 Vous vsurpe #79 Or dira ce que vouldre #81 Content de vous #93 Ce qui soloyt #94 Ciel vouldra sauoys qui je suis These are not the final edited versions... Still working on that. Any help is appreciated. I will probably come up with a few more also in the near future. --Sarge --E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE-- -- To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://publ.by/ 2. mailto:ajpm.nieuwl...@gmail.com 3. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Original composers of some songs
Brown's index: #79 On en dira ce qu'on voudra (Sermisy) other settings in - 1562-10 De Rippe, Tiers livre fol. 22r - 1574-7 Phalèse Bellère, Thesaurus Musicus fol. 43r Will have a look at the others later ! André Op ma 12 aug. 2019 om 20:05 schreef Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. <[1]sa...@gerbode.net>: --E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry, I included a bunch of irrelevant material in my last posting. Here is a cleaner version. --- I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS, trying to figure out who composed what. I did figure out most of them, but a few have me stymied. I may not have gotten the titles exactly right, but this is my best shot. Maybe someone here knows the answer? Some are attributed to B or Bernardo, but this seems to be the intabulator, rather than the original composer. #73 A la ventura #77 Si une heure perfect #78 Vous vsurpe #79 Or dira ce que vouldre #81 Content de vous #93 *Ce qui soloyt* #94 Ciel vouldra sauoys qui je suis These are not the final edited versions... Still working on that. Any help is appreciated. I will probably come up with a few more also in the near future. --Sarge --E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry, I included a bunch of irrelevant material in my last posting. Here is a cleaner version. --- I am busy working on the next 50 pieces from the Herwarth MS, trying to figure out who composed what. I did figure out most of them, but a few have me stymied. I may not have gotten the titles exactly right, but this is my best shot. Maybe someone here knows the answer? Some are attributed to B or Bernardo, but this seems to be the intabulator, rather than the original composer. #73 A la ventura #77 Si une heure perfect #78 Vous vsurpe #79 Or dira ce que vouldre #81 Content de vous #93 Ce qui soloyt #94 Ciel vouldra sauoys qui je suis These are not the final edited versions... Still working on that. Any help is appreciated. I will probably come up with a few more also in the near future. --Sarge --E9B68CA51DAED057D54555BE-- -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:sa...@gerbode.net 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
