[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
Apparently Fender sells a Jimmy Hendrix strato/tele(?)-caster for right-handed people: it's a left-handed model, with strings (and elements?) reversed. Now _that_ is what I would call a HIP guitar! ;-) David-- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
Bruno Fournier wrote:
this all left hand right hand stuff is all hogwash in my opinion. Left
Handed Piano? why bother? on the assumption that the weakest hand plays
the basses? didn't Ravel write a Piano concerto for the left hand
only? As Miles said, instruments that require two hands should be
required to play with equal dexterity. Who says the right on the
guitar requires more dexterity than the left hand, its two totally
different things. My left hand is not stronger than my right hand, yet
I consider pushing down on the strings and playing bar chords more
physical than plucking strings and definitely more physical than
strumming.
This fascinating topic comes up every so often and I'd disagree with
Bruno. I'm left-handed ('cack-handed' as my mother used to say) and play
right-handedly. Even after years
of playing right-handedly if I were to attempt to play 'air guitar',
air lute', or mime playing a plucked instrument, I spontaneously do so
left-handedly. (And I can't do it right-handedly.)
It's not just a matter of strength; if you are left-handed you hold a
pen, a paint brush, a tool with that hand. Delicate, fiddly things you
do with that hand - and on a plucked instrument I'm sure it would be
better and more natural to use that hand to actually produce the sound
on the strings.
I try paying with a plectrum sometimes and just now I picked one up. I
picked it up with my left hand and passed it to my right hand to play.
So playing right-handed, it you're left-handed, is a bit perverse I
think - but it makes life easier.
Stuart
We play the instrument the way we were shown how to play
it. I know a Venezuelan woman who plays left handed cuatro, without
reversing the strings, although I believe she is right handed ( I will
find out)...simply because her nanny played that way
it is not the weakest or strongest hand that dictates how you play, it
just turns out that way and how the instruments were designed.
Bruno
Right handed lutenist who wishes he could play left hand, cause his
left hand is slowly getting crippled due to disease I may be
forced one day to learn how to play the other way around...
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 8:33 PM, <[1]dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009, alexander <[2]voka...@verizon.net> said:
>
>
> Recorders, earlier ones, now often called "renaissance", were
designed to be played with the left hand in the upper or lower
position.
still are.
When keys for lower notes are fitted the tails are designed to be
used
ambidexstrously; when fingers will reach the lower holes two are
used,
each the equal of the other, the disused one is plugged with red
wax.
Cork is not much used on woodwinds until much later than the
renaissance
(Renaissance key-pads are commonly leather, joints are
thread-lapped).
--
Dana Emery
To get on or off this list see list information at
[3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
Luthiste, etc
Estavel
Ensemble de musique ancienne
[4]www.estavel.org
--
References
1. mailto:dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us
2. mailto:voka...@verizon.net
3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
4. http://www.estavel.org/
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[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
This would cause some problems in the orchestra :-) Stephan Am 9 Jan 2009 um 19:51 hat Edward Martin geschrieben: > Has anyone seen many lefty violinists? > > ed > > > At 04:25 PM 1/9/2009 -0500, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: > >Greetings All: > > > >I'm another stereotypical lefty...except when it's time to pluck. Every > >stringed instrument I have endeavored to play, I do so on standard > >instruments. > > > >As alluded by a few, most plucked string instruments to stop strings along a > >neck--from the very dawn of extant instruments--are braced asymmetrically to > >stiffen the soundboard nearer the bridge on the treble side in an effort to > >balance tone across range. Simply reversing strings, even if crafting new > >nut and bridge, aren't true conversions to mirror images of standard > >instruments because of this internal asymmetry. Unfortunately, the whole > >world of original vintage instruments is shut off to those who opt to learn > >to play in reverse to standard, because accommodating instruments > >historically were non-existent to very, very rare. > > > >Because playing music is very strictly anthropogenic, I contend that > >assignment of tasks, string plucking or stopping, may be relatively > >arbitrary. I'm not arguing that it makes no difference which job is > >assigned to the dominant hand, but that both jobs are relatively complex and > >strictly learned behaviors. I suspect a lefty who approaches music plucking > >with the right (from their perspective, non-dominant) hand very well *may* > >do so differently than righties. I thus also contend that left-handed > >beginners at least owe it to themselves to *try* to learn using standard > >instruments with neck in left hand. > > > >I sometimes wonder if lefties who insist on learning in reverse to standard > >do so because of the expectations they've learned growing up left handed. > >There certainly are left-handed keyboard players and violinists out there, > >but seeing any of them play in reverse to standard is rare in the extreme. > >I'm not certain why we find plucked string luthiers catering more to the > >whims of left handedness, perhaps because keyboards tend to be such > >substantial and often multi-user things, and the vintage violin market is > >much more serious than the vintage lute/guitar/mandolin market amongst > >"serious" musicians. > > > >Best, > >Eugene > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Miles Dempster [mailto:miles.demps...@globetrotter.net] > > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 3:46 PM > > > To: David van Ooijen > > > Cc: lute > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re : Re: restring? > > > > > > David, > > > > > > What an instructive and hilarious posting! Many thanks! > > > > > > I am a lefty, but from the very beginning of my plucking life (age 12 or > > > therabouts) I have played guitar and lute right-handed. Perhaps I am > > > ambidextrous to some degree, but I certainly throw a ball with my left, > > > and write with my left. > > > > > > Since both hands must be used skilfully, I wonder if there is any > > > fundamental reason why the plucking or bowing hand has to follow one's > > > dexterity or sinister tendencies. > > > > > > Just a thought > > > > > > > > > Miles Dempster > > > > > > - Message d'origine - > > > De: David van Ooijen > > > Date: Vendredi, Janvier 9, 2009 5:30 am > > > Objet: [LUTE] Re: restring? > > > À: lute > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Jean-Marie Poirier > > > > wrote: > > > > > I'm afraid it isn't that simple... I am left-handed so I know what > > > > I'm talking about. In fact a lute is not built like a guitar and it is > > > > not enough to change the strings the other way round to ba able to > > > > play a left-handed instrument. > > > > > > > > > > > > Another lefty here. Jean-Marie is right, it's not a good idea to use > > > > a > > > > right-handed lute the other way round, too many complications. Having > > > > said that, I do own one right-handed lute, and have re-strung it. Just > > > > so you know what a bad idea that is, I'll give a short summary of the > > > > problems playing that lute gives me. It's a 7-course: single first > > > > course, 6 double courses. That makes 13 strings. I have not altered > > > > the bridge or nut, so to have it as a left-handed 7-course I have a > > > > single first and a single 7, only the middle 5 courses are double now. > > > > That makes 12 strings, and one spare peg. It has a very awkward string > > > > spacing, left and right. For fixing that, changing the nut would not > > > > be a big problem, drilling some extra holes in the bridge is a little > > > > more tricky, especially as they must be very close to the existing > > > > holes. I never bothered. The neck is, as it should be, slightly > > > > off-centre. That means it's slightly off-centre the wrong way round > > > > now. You don't want to know how awkward that can be, playing in high > > > > positions. The neck, the whole instru
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
I once had a student whom I adviced to switch after an injury, but it never felt 'right' for him and he stopped plying some time after... Stephan Am 9 Jan 2009 um 21:19 hat Roman Turovsky geschrieben: > Reinhard Goebel taught himself to play lefthanded, after an injury. It is > very rare though. > Lefthandedness is usually a lifesentence to be a keybordist. > RT > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Edward Martin" > To: "Eugene C. Braig IV" ; "'lute'" > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 8:51 PM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring? > > > Has anyone seen many lefty violinists? > > ed > > > At 04:25 PM 1/9/2009 -0500, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: > >Greetings All: > > > >I'm another stereotypical lefty...except when it's time to pluck. Every > >stringed instrument I have endeavored to play, I do so on standard > >instruments. > > > >As alluded by a few, most plucked string instruments to stop strings along > >a > >neck--from the very dawn of extant instruments--are braced asymmetrically > >to > >stiffen the soundboard nearer the bridge on the treble side in an effort to > >balance tone across range. Simply reversing strings, even if crafting new > >nut and bridge, aren't true conversions to mirror images of standard > >instruments because of this internal asymmetry. Unfortunately, the whole > >world of original vintage instruments is shut off to those who opt to learn > >to play in reverse to standard, because accommodating instruments > >historically were non-existent to very, very rare. > > > >Because playing music is very strictly anthropogenic, I contend that > >assignment of tasks, string plucking or stopping, may be relatively > >arbitrary. I'm not arguing that it makes no difference which job is > >assigned to the dominant hand, but that both jobs are relatively complex > >and > >strictly learned behaviors. I suspect a lefty who approaches music > >plucking > >with the right (from their perspective, non-dominant) hand very well *may* > >do so differently than righties. I thus also contend that left-handed > >beginners at least owe it to themselves to *try* to learn using standard > >instruments with neck in left hand. > > > >I sometimes wonder if lefties who insist on learning in reverse to standard > >do so because of the expectations they've learned growing up left handed. > >There certainly are left-handed keyboard players and violinists out there, > >but seeing any of them play in reverse to standard is rare in the extreme. > >I'm not certain why we find plucked string luthiers catering more to the > >whims of left handedness, perhaps because keyboards tend to be such > >substantial and often multi-user things, and the vintage violin market is > >much more serious than the vintage lute/guitar/mandolin market amongst > >"serious" musicians. > > > >Best, > >Eugene > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Miles Dempster [mailto:miles.demps...@globetrotter.net] > > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 3:46 PM > > > To: David van Ooijen > > > Cc: lute > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re : Re: restring? > > > > > > David, > > > > > > What an instructive and hilarious posting! Many thanks! > > > > > > I am a lefty, but from the very beginning of my plucking life (age 12 or > > > therabouts) I have played guitar and lute right-handed. Perhaps I am > > > ambidextrous to some degree, but I certainly throw a ball with my left, > > > and write with my left. > > > > > > Since both hands must be used skilfully, I wonder if there is any > > > fundamental reason why the plucking or bowing hand has to follow one's > > > dexterity or sinister tendencies. > > > > > > Just a thought > > > > > > > > > Miles Dempster > > > > > > - Message d'origine - > > > De: David van Ooijen > > > Date: Vendredi, Janvier 9, 2009 5:30 am > > > Objet: [LUTE] Re: restring? > > > À: lute > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Jean-Marie Poirier > > > > wrote: > > > > > I'm afraid it isn't that simple... I am left-handed so I know what > > > > I'm talking about. In fact a lute is not built like a guitar and it is > > > > not enough to change the strings the other way round to ba able to > > > > play a left
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
I always ask how they want the guitar to hold if they are left handed, and 99% want to do it the left way. Recently I had a right handed young boy who insisted to play the other way round. When I asked about it, he told me 'that's the way I use to play my tennis racket'. Well, he quitted the lesson after a few month, I guess the difference between the guitar and the racket was just too big. :-) Regards, Stephan Am 9 Jan 2009 um 21:57 hat David van Ooijen geschrieben: > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Miles Dempster > wrote: > > I am a lefty, but from the very beginning of my plucking life (age 12 or therabouts) I have played guitar and lute right-handed. > > A very wise decision, be it conscious or not. I always advice my > (guitar) pupils to play right-handed and to be normal like the rest of > the world. I'm the exception, I keep telling them. Somehow it doesn't > register, as many want to play left-handed; it appears to be part of > their personalities, they 'are' left-handed - never touched a guitar > before - so they must play left-handed. Stuff and non-sense, you need > both hands. Alas, they don't listen to me. > > > > Perhaps I am ambidextrous to some degree, > > Aren't we all? > > David - used to draw with two pencils at the same time, one in the > left and one in the right hand, holds sashimi knife in right hand, > writes with left hand, uses computer mouse with right hand, plays lute > with both hands. > > > -- > *** > David van Ooijen > davidvanooi...@gmail.com > www.davidvanooijen.nl > *** > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
Reinhard Goebel taught himself to play lefthanded, after an injury. It is very rare though. Lefthandedness is usually a lifesentence to be a keybordist. RT - Original Message - From: "Edward Martin" To: "Eugene C. Braig IV" ; "'lute'" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 8:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring? Has anyone seen many lefty violinists? ed At 04:25 PM 1/9/2009 -0500, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: Greetings All: I'm another stereotypical lefty...except when it's time to pluck. Every stringed instrument I have endeavored to play, I do so on standard instruments. As alluded by a few, most plucked string instruments to stop strings along a neck--from the very dawn of extant instruments--are braced asymmetrically to stiffen the soundboard nearer the bridge on the treble side in an effort to balance tone across range. Simply reversing strings, even if crafting new nut and bridge, aren't true conversions to mirror images of standard instruments because of this internal asymmetry. Unfortunately, the whole world of original vintage instruments is shut off to those who opt to learn to play in reverse to standard, because accommodating instruments historically were non-existent to very, very rare. Because playing music is very strictly anthropogenic, I contend that assignment of tasks, string plucking or stopping, may be relatively arbitrary. I'm not arguing that it makes no difference which job is assigned to the dominant hand, but that both jobs are relatively complex and strictly learned behaviors. I suspect a lefty who approaches music plucking with the right (from their perspective, non-dominant) hand very well *may* do so differently than righties. I thus also contend that left-handed beginners at least owe it to themselves to *try* to learn using standard instruments with neck in left hand. I sometimes wonder if lefties who insist on learning in reverse to standard do so because of the expectations they've learned growing up left handed. There certainly are left-handed keyboard players and violinists out there, but seeing any of them play in reverse to standard is rare in the extreme. I'm not certain why we find plucked string luthiers catering more to the whims of left handedness, perhaps because keyboards tend to be such substantial and often multi-user things, and the vintage violin market is much more serious than the vintage lute/guitar/mandolin market amongst "serious" musicians. Best, Eugene > -Original Message- > From: Miles Dempster [mailto:miles.demps...@globetrotter.net] > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 3:46 PM > To: David van Ooijen > Cc: lute > Subject: [LUTE] Re : Re: restring? > > David, > > What an instructive and hilarious posting! Many thanks! > > I am a lefty, but from the very beginning of my plucking life (age 12 or > therabouts) I have played guitar and lute right-handed. Perhaps I am > ambidextrous to some degree, but I certainly throw a ball with my left, > and write with my left. > > Since both hands must be used skilfully, I wonder if there is any > fundamental reason why the plucking or bowing hand has to follow one's > dexterity or sinister tendencies. > > Just a thought > > > Miles Dempster > > - Message d'origine - > De: David van Ooijen > Date: Vendredi, Janvier 9, 2009 5:30 am > Objet: [LUTE] Re: restring? > À: lute > > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Jean-Marie Poirier > > wrote: > > > I'm afraid it isn't that simple... I am left-handed so I know what > > I'm talking about. In fact a lute is not built like a guitar and it is > > not enough to change the strings the other way round to ba able to > > play a left-handed instrument. > > > > > > Another lefty here. Jean-Marie is right, it's not a good idea to use > > a > > right-handed lute the other way round, too many complications. Having > > said that, I do own one right-handed lute, and have re-strung it. > > Just > > so you know what a bad idea that is, I'll give a short summary of the > > problems playing that lute gives me. It's a 7-course: single first > > course, 6 double courses. That makes 13 strings. I have not altered > > the bridge or nut, so to have it as a left-handed 7-course I have a > > single first and a single 7, only the middle 5 courses are double > > now. > > That makes 12 strings, and one spare peg. It has a very awkward > > string > > spacing, left and right. For fixing that, changing the nut would not > > be a big problem, drilling some extra holes in the bridge is a little > > more tricky, especially as they must be very close to the existing > &g
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
this all left hand right hand stuff is all hogwash in my opinion. Left Handed Piano? why bother? on the assumption that the weakest hand plays the basses? didn't Ravel write a Piano concerto for the left hand only? As Miles said, instruments that require two hands should be required to play with equal dexterity. Who says the right on the guitar requires more dexterity than the left hand, its two totally different things. My left hand is not stronger than my right hand, yet I consider pushing down on the strings and playing bar chords more physical than plucking strings and definitely more physical than strumming. We play the instrument the way we were shown how to play it. I know a Venezuelan woman who plays left handed cuatro, without reversing the strings, although I believe she is right handed ( I will find out)...simply because her nanny played that way it is not the weakest or strongest hand that dictates how you play, it just turns out that way and how the instruments were designed. Bruno Right handed lutenist who wishes he could play left hand, cause his left hand is slowly getting crippled due to disease I may be forced one day to learn how to play the other way around... On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 8:33 PM, <[1]dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote: On Fri, Jan 9, 2009, alexander <[2]voka...@verizon.net> said: > > > Recorders, earlier ones, now often called "renaissance", were designed to be played with the left hand in the upper or lower position. still are. When keys for lower notes are fitted the tails are designed to be used ambidexstrously; when fingers will reach the lower holes two are used, each the equal of the other, the disused one is plugged with red wax. Cork is not much used on woodwinds until much later than the renaissance (Renaissance key-pads are commonly leather, joints are thread-lapped). -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Bruno Cognyl-Fournier Luthiste, etc Estavel Ensemble de musique ancienne [4]www.estavel.org -- References 1. mailto:dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us 2. mailto:voka...@verizon.net 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 4. http://www.estavel.org/
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
Has anyone seen many lefty violinists? ed At 04:25 PM 1/9/2009 -0500, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: Greetings All: I'm another stereotypical lefty...except when it's time to pluck. Every stringed instrument I have endeavored to play, I do so on standard instruments. As alluded by a few, most plucked string instruments to stop strings along a neck--from the very dawn of extant instruments--are braced asymmetrically to stiffen the soundboard nearer the bridge on the treble side in an effort to balance tone across range. Simply reversing strings, even if crafting new nut and bridge, aren't true conversions to mirror images of standard instruments because of this internal asymmetry. Unfortunately, the whole world of original vintage instruments is shut off to those who opt to learn to play in reverse to standard, because accommodating instruments historically were non-existent to very, very rare. Because playing music is very strictly anthropogenic, I contend that assignment of tasks, string plucking or stopping, may be relatively arbitrary. I'm not arguing that it makes no difference which job is assigned to the dominant hand, but that both jobs are relatively complex and strictly learned behaviors. I suspect a lefty who approaches music plucking with the right (from their perspective, non-dominant) hand very well *may* do so differently than righties. I thus also contend that left-handed beginners at least owe it to themselves to *try* to learn using standard instruments with neck in left hand. I sometimes wonder if lefties who insist on learning in reverse to standard do so because of the expectations they've learned growing up left handed. There certainly are left-handed keyboard players and violinists out there, but seeing any of them play in reverse to standard is rare in the extreme. I'm not certain why we find plucked string luthiers catering more to the whims of left handedness, perhaps because keyboards tend to be such substantial and often multi-user things, and the vintage violin market is much more serious than the vintage lute/guitar/mandolin market amongst "serious" musicians. Best, Eugene > -Original Message- > From: Miles Dempster [mailto:miles.demps...@globetrotter.net] > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 3:46 PM > To: David van Ooijen > Cc: lute > Subject: [LUTE] Re : Re: restring? > > David, > > What an instructive and hilarious posting! Many thanks! > > I am a lefty, but from the very beginning of my plucking life (age 12 or > therabouts) I have played guitar and lute right-handed. Perhaps I am > ambidextrous to some degree, but I certainly throw a ball with my left, > and write with my left. > > Since both hands must be used skilfully, I wonder if there is any > fundamental reason why the plucking or bowing hand has to follow one's > dexterity or sinister tendencies. > > Just a thought > > > Miles Dempster > > - Message d'origine - > De: David van Ooijen > Date: Vendredi, Janvier 9, 2009 5:30 am > Objet: [LUTE] Re: restring? > À: lute > > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Jean-Marie Poirier > > wrote: > > > I'm afraid it isn't that simple... I am left-handed so I know what > > I'm talking about. In fact a lute is not built like a guitar and it is > > not enough to change the strings the other way round to ba able to > > play a left-handed instrument. > > > > > > Another lefty here. Jean-Marie is right, it's not a good idea to use > > a > > right-handed lute the other way round, too many complications. Having > > said that, I do own one right-handed lute, and have re-strung it. Just > > so you know what a bad idea that is, I'll give a short summary of the > > problems playing that lute gives me. It's a 7-course: single first > > course, 6 double courses. That makes 13 strings. I have not altered > > the bridge or nut, so to have it as a left-handed 7-course I have a > > single first and a single 7, only the middle 5 courses are double now. > > That makes 12 strings, and one spare peg. It has a very awkward string > > spacing, left and right. For fixing that, changing the nut would not > > be a big problem, drilling some extra holes in the bridge is a little > > more tricky, especially as they must be very close to the existing > > holes. I never bothered. The neck is, as it should be, slightly > > off-centre. That means it's slightly off-centre the wrong way round > > now. You don't want to know how awkward that can be, playing in high > > positions. The neck, the whole instrument in fact, is slightly warped, > > perhaps designed to be so, perhaps it came about when the maker was > > adjusting the instrument, perhaps it happened over time. The result is > > a good action: low for the first course, a little higher for the > > basses. But that's good action for a right-handed lute, so more circus > > acts needed to play it as a lefty. Minor aberrations as slanted bridge > > or nut to compensate for tuning differences in high and low st
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009, alexander said: > > > Recorders, earlier ones, now often called "renaissance", were designed to be > played with the left hand in the upper or lower position. still are. When keys for lower notes are fitted the tails are designed to be used ambidexstrously; when fingers will reach the lower holes two are used, each the equal of the other, the disused one is plugged with red wax. Cork is not much used on woodwinds until much later than the renaissance (Renaissance key-pads are commonly leather, joints are thread-lapped). -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
Recorders, earlier ones, now often called "renaissance", were designed to be played with the left hand in the upper or lower position. They had two "pinkie" holes drilled, with the unused one being plugged by a piece of cork. A similar design in some shawms and similar crustaceans. There goes the left handed wind instrument. alexander > On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 18:17:33 -0500 > Leonard Williams wrote: > > > > Has anyone ever seen or heard about a left handed piano? Could be > > > interesting? > > > > Or a left-handed wind instrument? I think any instrument that requires both > > hands demands skillful, practiced use of both. > > > > Regards, > > Leonard Williams > > > >/[ ] > >/ \ > > | * | > > \_=_/ > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
C.P.E.Bach was a lefty, but had no problems with the normal keyboard layout. RT - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:25 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring? Has anyone ever seen or heard about a left handed piano? Could be interesting? And I suppose there really is no basis of bass being to the left, soprano to the right. Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
> Has anyone ever seen or heard about a left handed piano? Could be > interesting? Or a left-handed wind instrument? I think any instrument that requires both hands demands skillful, practiced use of both. Regards, Leonard Williams /[ ] / \ | * | \_=_/ On 1/9/09 4:25 PM, "wi...@cs.helsinki.fi" wrote: > > Has anyone ever seen or heard about a left handed piano? Could be > interesting? And I suppose there really is no basis of bass being to the > left, soprano to the right. > > Arto > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
IMHO The piano keyboard has remained standard with bass to the left and treble to the right. This is because the right hand is normally more dextrous to cope with the fast playing required at that end. The left hand, being slower can more easily deal with the bass notes. But the question remains, is there such a thing as a left-handed piano? It poses a lot of problems for visiting pianists, duettists and piano-tuners! (Maybe the brake and accelerator are the other way round too?) Best Wishes Ron (UK) -Original Message- From: wi...@cs.helsinki.fi [mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 9:26 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring? Has anyone ever seen or heard about a left handed piano? Could be interesting? And I suppose there really is no basis of bass being to the left, soprano to the right. Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 11:11 PM, David Rastall wrote: > On Jan 9, 2009, at 4:25 PM, wi...@cs.helsinki.fi wrote: > >> Has anyone ever seen or heard about a left handed piano? Could be >> interesting? > > There is an English pianist named Christopher Seed who plays left- > handed piano: see www.lefthandedpiano.co.uk/ It's the guy I mentioned. It has to be said, there are stories of left-handed people, 'forced' to play right-handed who show musical talent but do seem to be able to express themselves adequately. Reversing their instrument/playing might help. I know of a pupil of my former guitar teacher. Left-handed kid, but played right-handed, bright pupil, good hands, good music, but somehow not as expressive as he could be. Teacher decided to restring his guitar, and within weeks the boy was better than he was before. But for me the question comes up, would any major change in his playing habits have resulted in a similar good outcome? In other words, is the theory that one hand is dominant in expressing emotions true, or does a major change in habits draw attention away from whatever is blocking you to express yourself in music? I have no answers, but as a practicing lefty, I am sceptical to the first theory. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
I suppose on that note I am a lefty too. I draw and write with my left hand (does that make me a pen-pusher?). I also use a spoon and toothbrush left-handed. But in all else, I am right-handed. I would give my right-arm to be ambidextrous! Best Wishes Ron (UK) Miles wrote... "What an instructive and hilarious posting! Many thanks! I am a lefty, but from the very beginning of my plucking life (age 12 or therabouts) I have played guitar and lute right-handed. Perhaps I am ambidextrous to some degree, but I certainly throw a ball with my left, and write with my left. Since both hands must be used skilfully, I wonder if there is any fundamental reason why the plucking or bowing hand has to follow one's dexterity or sinister tendencies". Miles Dempster To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
On Jan 9, 2009, at 4:25 PM, wi...@cs.helsinki.fi wrote: > Has anyone ever seen or heard about a left handed piano? Could be > interesting? There is an English pianist named Christopher Seed who plays left- handed piano: see www.lefthandedpiano.co.uk/ Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:54 PM, wrote: > > On 1/9/2009, "David van Ooijen" wrote: >> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:25 PM, wrote: >> > >> > Has anyone ever seen or heard about a left handed piano? >> >> Guy in Holland made a left-handed 'copy' of a forte-piano for a >> customer. Daft thing to do. I believe the player had his music printed >> upside down, or treble cleff on the bottom staff or something similar. >> Even made the regular news paper. > > BTW, why was that music printed upside down? If you're daft enough to order a left-handed piano, you might as well type-set all your music anew. Money and time did not seem to be an objection. Ask Stephen & Sandi, they knows the piano maker. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
On 1/9/2009, "David van Ooijen" wrote: > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:25 PM, wrote: > > > > Has anyone ever seen or heard about a left handed piano? > > Guy in Holland made a left-handed 'copy' of a forte-piano for a > customer. Daft thing to do. I believe the player had his music printed > upside down, or treble cleff on the bottom staff or something similar. > Even made the regular news paper. BTW, why was that music printed upside down? Is there really some true connection between low,down,left and on the other hand, high,up,right? Low-high note, down-up printing, left-right setting of the keyboard? BTW2: The modern "staff notation" is perhaps actually only a "piano tabulature"`? ;-) Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:25 PM, wrote: > > Has anyone ever seen or heard about a left handed piano? Guy in Holland made a left-handed 'copy' of a forte-piano for a customer. Daft thing to do. I believe the player had his music printed upside down, or treble cleff on the bottom staff or something similar. Even made the regular news paper. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
Has anyone ever seen or heard about a left handed piano? Could be interesting? And I suppose there really is no basis of bass being to the left, soprano to the right. Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
Greetings All: I'm another stereotypical lefty...except when it's time to pluck. Every stringed instrument I have endeavored to play, I do so on standard instruments. As alluded by a few, most plucked string instruments to stop strings along a neck--from the very dawn of extant instruments--are braced asymmetrically to stiffen the soundboard nearer the bridge on the treble side in an effort to balance tone across range. Simply reversing strings, even if crafting new nut and bridge, aren't true conversions to mirror images of standard instruments because of this internal asymmetry. Unfortunately, the whole world of original vintage instruments is shut off to those who opt to learn to play in reverse to standard, because accommodating instruments historically were non-existent to very, very rare. Because playing music is very strictly anthropogenic, I contend that assignment of tasks, string plucking or stopping, may be relatively arbitrary. I'm not arguing that it makes no difference which job is assigned to the dominant hand, but that both jobs are relatively complex and strictly learned behaviors. I suspect a lefty who approaches music plucking with the right (from their perspective, non-dominant) hand very well *may* do so differently than righties. I thus also contend that left-handed beginners at least owe it to themselves to *try* to learn using standard instruments with neck in left hand. I sometimes wonder if lefties who insist on learning in reverse to standard do so because of the expectations they've learned growing up left handed. There certainly are left-handed keyboard players and violinists out there, but seeing any of them play in reverse to standard is rare in the extreme. I'm not certain why we find plucked string luthiers catering more to the whims of left handedness, perhaps because keyboards tend to be such substantial and often multi-user things, and the vintage violin market is much more serious than the vintage lute/guitar/mandolin market amongst "serious" musicians. Best, Eugene > -Original Message- > From: Miles Dempster [mailto:miles.demps...@globetrotter.net] > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 3:46 PM > To: David van Ooijen > Cc: lute > Subject: [LUTE] Re : Re: restring? > > David, > > What an instructive and hilarious posting! Many thanks! > > I am a lefty, but from the very beginning of my plucking life (age 12 or > therabouts) I have played guitar and lute right-handed. Perhaps I am > ambidextrous to some degree, but I certainly throw a ball with my left, > and write with my left. > > Since both hands must be used skilfully, I wonder if there is any > fundamental reason why the plucking or bowing hand has to follow one's > dexterity or sinister tendencies. > > Just a thought > > > Miles Dempster > > - Message d'origine - > De: David van Ooijen > Date: Vendredi, Janvier 9, 2009 5:30 am > Objet: [LUTE] Re: restring? > À: lute > > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Jean-Marie Poirier > > wrote: > > > I'm afraid it isn't that simple... I am left-handed so I know what > > I'm talking about. In fact a lute is not built like a guitar and it is > > not enough to change the strings the other way round to ba able to > > play a left-handed instrument. > > > > > > Another lefty here. Jean-Marie is right, it's not a good idea to use > > a > > right-handed lute the other way round, too many complications. Having > > said that, I do own one right-handed lute, and have re-strung it. Just > > so you know what a bad idea that is, I'll give a short summary of the > > problems playing that lute gives me. It's a 7-course: single first > > course, 6 double courses. That makes 13 strings. I have not altered > > the bridge or nut, so to have it as a left-handed 7-course I have a > > single first and a single 7, only the middle 5 courses are double now. > > That makes 12 strings, and one spare peg. It has a very awkward string > > spacing, left and right. For fixing that, changing the nut would not > > be a big problem, drilling some extra holes in the bridge is a little > > more tricky, especially as they must be very close to the existing > > holes. I never bothered. The neck is, as it should be, slightly > > off-centre. That means it's slightly off-centre the wrong way round > > now. You don't want to know how awkward that can be, playing in high > > positions. The neck, the whole instrument in fact, is slightly warped, > > perhaps designed to be so, perhaps it came about when the maker was > > adjusting the instrument, perhaps it happened over time. The result is > > a good action: low for the first course, a little higher for the > > basses. But that's good action for a right-handed lute, so more circus > > acts needed to play it as a lefty. Minor aberrations as slanted bridge > > or nut to compensate for tuning differences in high and low strings I > > don't particularly notice, the other problems are great enough to > > occupy
[LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Miles Dempster wrote: > I am a lefty, but from the very beginning of my plucking life (age 12 or > therabouts) I have played guitar and lute right-handed. A very wise decision, be it conscious or not. I always advice my (guitar) pupils to play right-handed and to be normal like the rest of the world. I'm the exception, I keep telling them. Somehow it doesn't register, as many want to play left-handed; it appears to be part of their personalities, they 'are' left-handed - never touched a guitar before - so they must play left-handed. Stuff and non-sense, you need both hands. Alas, they don't listen to me. > Perhaps I am ambidextrous to some degree, Aren't we all? David - used to draw with two pencils at the same time, one in the left and one in the right hand, holds sashimi knife in right hand, writes with left hand, uses computer mouse with right hand, plays lute with both hands. -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
