Re: webcams

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

On Friday, 5 November 2021 01:20:57 AEDT Andrew Pam via luv-main wrote:
> On 4/11/21 10:23 pm, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote:
> > Is there anything obviously wrong with the 1080p one from Kogan for$19?
> 
> At that price, I'd be surprised if it actually has a 1920x1080 sensor!
> Many cheap webcams list the displayed image size, not necessarily the
> actual raw capture resolution.  The image is upscaled by the firmware or
> the driver, which is a terrible marketing cheat.

That sucks.

On Friday, 5 November 2021 00:20:26 AEDT Irving Tjiptowarsono via luv-main 
wrote:
> I have had this link for a while now, perhaps it could be useful:
> https://reincubate.com/support/how-to/why-are-webcams-bad/

Seems like we can expect them to be bad.  So I guess it's a market for lemons 
so I should just buy something cheap as I'll get something nasty even if I pay 
more.
 
> I'm considering turning an old phone into a webcam, or using this as an
> excuse to grab the raspberry pi high quality camera module (already have
> most of the other bits)...

If using a phone as a webcam then I might as well just run Zoom or the web 
interface for Jitsi/BBB on the phone.

For making YouTube videos and for shorter video conferences I've got a USB-C 
microphone that I could attach to a phone and I've got a phone tripod 
somewhere.

For the day long training sessions I've still got a problem as a phone battery 
won't last that long and the USB-C microphone precludes USB-C charging.

> Some people at pyconf au suggested getting a ring light to help with
> image quality. Might be worth a try.

I guess so.

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Re: webcams

[Karl Billeter via luv-main]

On Thu, Nov 04, 2021 at 10:23:21PM +1100, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote:

> > I would go look at a few device reviews to get a feel for the current
> > options in the $100-200 range.
> 
> I think that $100-$200 for a webcam is unreasonably expensive given that high 
> end phones (which have lots of things in addition to such a camera) cost less 
> than $1000.

If you have a phone you don't need to use at the same time DroidCam
works well under Linux

K
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Re: webcams

[Craig Sanders via luv-main]

On Fri, Nov 05, 2021 at 12:20:26AM +1100, Irving Tjiptowarsono wrote:
> I'm considering turning an old phone into a webcam, or using this as an
> excuse to grab the raspberry pi high quality camera module (already have
> most of the other bits)...

Dunno what kind of rpi you have, but I watched this a few weeks ago...might be
useful for you:

"Raspberry Pi Zero is a PRO HQ webcam for less than $100!" - Jeff Geerling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fcbP7lEdzY

craig

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Re: webcams

[Andrew Pam via luv-main]

On 4/11/21 10:23 pm, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote:

Is there anything obviously wrong with the 1080p one from Kogan for$19?


At that price, I'd be surprised if it actually has a 1920x1080 sensor! 
Many cheap webcams list the displayed image size, not necessarily the 
actual raw capture resolution.  The image is upscaled by the firmware or 
the driver, which is a terrible marketing cheat.


Hope that helps,
Andrew
--
mailto:and...@sericyb.com.au  Andrew Pam
https://sericyb.com.au/   Manager, Serious Cybernetics
https://glasswings.com.au/Partner, Glass Wings
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Re: webcams

[Irving Tjiptowarsono via luv-main]

I am similarly in a market for something a bit better than my laptop 
webcam, but have not seen anything that seems to be an obvious 
price-performance sweet spot


I have had this link for a while now, perhaps it could be useful: 
https://reincubate.com/support/how-to/why-are-webcams-bad/


I'm considering turning an old phone into a webcam, or using this as an 
excuse to grab the raspberry pi high quality camera module (already have 
most of the other bits)...


Some people at pyconf au suggested getting a ring light to help with 
image quality. Might be worth a try.


Irving

On 4/11/21 10:23 pm, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote:

On Thursday, 4 November 2021 17:58:04 AEDT Yuchen Pei via luv-main wrote:

Perhaps take a look at .


Thanks, that's a good resource.

On Thursday, 4 November 2021 18:00:42 AEDT Paul van den Bergen via luv-main
wrote:

Recently purchased a webcam and had a similar discussion - but with a focus
on affordability versus utility.

Don't buy the cheapest webcams - they are truly crap.  But you also don't
need to spend huge amounts either. I purchased a Logitech C505 HD, and
there are a bunch of good logitech midrange webcams.

I would go look at a few device reviews to get a feel for the current
options in the $100-200 range.


I think that $100-$200 for a webcam is unreasonably expensive given that high
end phones (which have lots of things in addition to such a camera) cost less
than $1000.


I have had cheap SoC mass produced webcams in the past that use barely
functional windows only drivers with no problem on linux (with Cheese), but
the discovery process for some devices can be very ... involved...
especially USB microscopes - essentially webcams with a lens.

My gut feeling is a well known company like Logitech is much more likely to
be supported on Linux than anything on say Aliexpress. YMMV.


I generally don't look at things on Aliexpress.  I've found ebay to be pretty
good for online stores of new stuff and Aliexpress seems to be more aimed at
wholesale.

https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/p/j-burrows-1080p-webcam-with-autofocus-jbcm200bk

A private message recommended the above, 1080p for $49.

https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/logitech-c270-plug-and-play-full-hd-fhd-720p-webcam-with-video-calling-00097855070753/

Another private message recommended the above, 720p for $49.

https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/207347086-Group-HD

For Zoom 720p is for a "Pro" account and Zoom support has to enable it, also
the client must be in full screen mode (something I generally don't do).
1080p is for a "Business, Education, or Enterprise account" and probably not
supported by the Linux client.

https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html

For BBB 720p is the maximum supported.

https://community.jitsi.org/t/1080-jitsi-server-available-to-test-with/18796

For Jitsi 1080p has been supported for a while but not by default and until
very recently not for mobile devices.  It seems likely that most places that
host Jitsi won't have 1080p support enabled.  With Australian bandwidth issues
it's probably not a good idea to enable 1080p as that may require encouraging
people to turn off video when they aren't talking (bandwidth being of the
order of the users squared multiplied by the video stream size).

Also would I be correct in assuming that a 1080p camera running at 720p would
give a lower quality result than a native 720p camera?  So I guess 720p would
be the ideal resolution for only using current videoconferencing technology
but 1080p might be better at some future time.  Also 1080p would be good for
recording videos to upload later.

https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/reitter-full-hd-1080p-webcam-with-microphone-usb-streaming-camera-for-mac-pc-laptops-a-91tdms1qlhfau/

Kogan has the above 1080p webcam for $19 which lists "Linux with UVC（2.6.26 or
above" in the driver section.  Presumably that means any Linux kernel above
2.6.

https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/maysarah-720p-rotatable-usb-camera-live-broadcast-camera-teaching-webcam-with-noise-reduction-built-in-microphone-37whcublwxvsu/

The above is $20, but 720p.  Linux support.

https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/fashionstore-480p720p1080p-usb-webcam-video-web-camera-wmicrophone720p-fh1102702/

The above is $22 for 720p and $27 for 1080p.  With Linux support.  It seems
that Kogan is now running a scheme like Amazon where other companies are
selling through them, that's OK, Kogan will enforce the warranty which means
if it says Linux (or "Linx") and ends up only working on Windows I can send it
back.

Officeworks has nothing below $39.  If my first purchase from Kogan turns out
to be not adequate but not sufficiently bad for a warranty claim then I could
buy another and still not pay the Officeworks price.

The best price I could see on ebay for a product that specifically mentions
Linux was $19.50 for 1080p, so Kogan is cheaper.

Is there anything obviously wrong with the 1080p one from 

Re: webcams

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

On Thursday, 4 November 2021 17:58:04 AEDT Yuchen Pei via luv-main wrote:
> Perhaps take a look at .

Thanks, that's a good resource.

On Thursday, 4 November 2021 18:00:42 AEDT Paul van den Bergen via luv-main 
wrote:
> Recently purchased a webcam and had a similar discussion - but with a focus
> on affordability versus utility.
> 
> Don't buy the cheapest webcams - they are truly crap.  But you also don't
> need to spend huge amounts either. I purchased a Logitech C505 HD, and
> there are a bunch of good logitech midrange webcams.
> 
> I would go look at a few device reviews to get a feel for the current
> options in the $100-200 range.

I think that $100-$200 for a webcam is unreasonably expensive given that high 
end phones (which have lots of things in addition to such a camera) cost less 
than $1000.

> I have had cheap SoC mass produced webcams in the past that use barely
> functional windows only drivers with no problem on linux (with Cheese), but
> the discovery process for some devices can be very ... involved...
> especially USB microscopes - essentially webcams with a lens.
> 
> My gut feeling is a well known company like Logitech is much more likely to
> be supported on Linux than anything on say Aliexpress. YMMV.

I generally don't look at things on Aliexpress.  I've found ebay to be pretty 
good for online stores of new stuff and Aliexpress seems to be more aimed at 
wholesale.

https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/p/j-burrows-1080p-webcam-with-autofocus-jbcm200bk

A private message recommended the above, 1080p for $49.

https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/logitech-c270-plug-and-play-full-hd-fhd-720p-webcam-with-video-calling-00097855070753/

Another private message recommended the above, 720p for $49.

https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/207347086-Group-HD

For Zoom 720p is for a "Pro" account and Zoom support has to enable it, also 
the client must be in full screen mode (something I generally don't do).  
1080p is for a "Business, Education, or Enterprise account" and probably not 
supported by the Linux client.

https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html

For BBB 720p is the maximum supported.

https://community.jitsi.org/t/1080-jitsi-server-available-to-test-with/18796

For Jitsi 1080p has been supported for a while but not by default and until 
very recently not for mobile devices.  It seems likely that most places that 
host Jitsi won't have 1080p support enabled.  With Australian bandwidth issues 
it's probably not a good idea to enable 1080p as that may require encouraging 
people to turn off video when they aren't talking (bandwidth being of the 
order of the users squared multiplied by the video stream size).

Also would I be correct in assuming that a 1080p camera running at 720p would 
give a lower quality result than a native 720p camera?  So I guess 720p would 
be the ideal resolution for only using current videoconferencing technology 
but 1080p might be better at some future time.  Also 1080p would be good for 
recording videos to upload later.

https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/reitter-full-hd-1080p-webcam-with-microphone-usb-streaming-camera-for-mac-pc-laptops-a-91tdms1qlhfau/

Kogan has the above 1080p webcam for $19 which lists "Linux with UVC（2.6.26 or 
above" in the driver section.  Presumably that means any Linux kernel above 
2.6.

https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/maysarah-720p-rotatable-usb-camera-live-broadcast-camera-teaching-webcam-with-noise-reduction-built-in-microphone-37whcublwxvsu/

The above is $20, but 720p.  Linux support.

https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/fashionstore-480p720p1080p-usb-webcam-video-web-camera-wmicrophone720p-fh1102702/

The above is $22 for 720p and $27 for 1080p.  With Linux support.  It seems 
that Kogan is now running a scheme like Amazon where other companies are 
selling through them, that's OK, Kogan will enforce the warranty which means 
if it says Linux (or "Linx") and ends up only working on Windows I can send it 
back.

Officeworks has nothing below $39.  If my first purchase from Kogan turns out 
to be not adequate but not sufficiently bad for a warranty claim then I could 
buy another and still not pay the Officeworks price.

The best price I could see on ebay for a product that specifically mentions 
Linux was $19.50 for 1080p, so Kogan is cheaper.

Is there anything obviously wrong with the 1080p one from Kogan for$19?

-- 
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/

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Re: webcams

[Paul van den Bergen via luv-main]

Recently purchased a webcam and had a similar discussion - but with a focus
on affordability versus utility.

Don't buy the cheapest webcams - they are truly crap.  But you also don't
need to spend huge amounts either. I purchased a Logitech C505 HD, and
there are a bunch of good logitech midrange webcams.

I would go look at a few device reviews to get a feel for the current
options in the $100-200 range.

I have had cheap SoC mass produced webcams in the past that use barely
functional windows only drivers with no problem on linux (with Cheese), but
the discovery process for some devices can be very ... involved...
especially USB microscopes - essentially webcams with a lens.

My gut feeling is a well known company like Logitech is much more likely to
be supported on Linux than anything on say Aliexpress. YMMV.



On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 at 17:52, Russell Coker via luv-main 
wrote:

> https://www.sades.com.au/shop/p/ktdgxmmjrp86f7sn5vcu4yrtzfv8as
>
> I've just ordered myself a Sades gaming headset that connects via USB
> 2.0.  As
> an aside don't buy it from that site, it's significantly cheaper on ebay.
>
> https://www.kogan.com/au/shop/?q=webcam
>
> Now I need a webcam.  Can I expect that a random webcam I buy (such as one
> of
> the above) will just work on Linux or do I have to be careful about
> compatibility?
>
> --
> My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
> My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/
>
>
>
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-- 
Dr Paul van den Bergen
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Re: webcams

[Yuchen Pei via luv-main]

Russell Coker via luv-main  writes:


https://www.sades.com.au/shop/p/ktdgxmmjrp86f7sn5vcu4yrtzfv8as

I've just ordered myself a Sades gaming headset that connects 
via USB 2.0.  As 
an aside don't buy it from that site, it's significantly cheaper 
on ebay.


https://www.kogan.com/au/shop/?q=webcam

Now I need a webcam.  Can I expect that a random webcam I buy 
(such as one of 
the above) will just work on Linux or do I have to be careful 
about 
compatibility?


Perhaps take a look at .

--
Best,
Yuchen

PGP Key: 47F9 D050 1E11 8879 9040  4941 2126 7E93 EF86 DFD0
  


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Description: PGP signature
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webcams

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

https://www.sades.com.au/shop/p/ktdgxmmjrp86f7sn5vcu4yrtzfv8as

I've just ordered myself a Sades gaming headset that connects via USB 2.0.  As 
an aside don't buy it from that site, it's significantly cheaper on ebay.

https://www.kogan.com/au/shop/?q=webcam

Now I need a webcam.  Can I expect that a random webcam I buy (such as one of 
the above) will just work on Linux or do I have to be careful about 
compatibility?

-- 
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/



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