Re: LUV needs volunteers

[Craig Sanders via luv-main]

On Sat, Jul 02, 2022 at 09:10:28PM +1000, russ...@coker.com.au wrote:

RE: reverting to mailman 2:

> It probably can, but it's a pain and no-one is volunteering to do it.
>
> https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=mailman

> But if you did it then you would have to support it, Mailman version
> 2.x is no longer in Debian.  At this time someone might suggest using a
> distribution other than Debian which still supports Mailman 2.x, but that
> makes supporting all the other stuff more difficult or requires a second VM.

I'm not volunteering to do the conversion (if the current lists work, why fix
them?), but...

The hard part would be converting the mailing lists, including subscriber
lists and archives back to mailman 2.x.  Mailman stores most of its config
data and subscriber lists in python's pickle format (a binary serialised
object dump - python devs think this kind of shit is a good idea*. Using a
fragile and non-human-readable/editable binary format can save nanoseconds,
perhaps even microseconds, compared to parsing plain text), and I expect the
objects and data structures have changed between the two versions.

* It can be a good idea in some circumstances, like quickly saving state for
a long-running process or saving an object into a key-value store or database
for convenient re-use by other threads on other machines. Internal-use-only
data.  Stuff that no human (or program written in another language) is ever
likely to need to interact with directly. Not for storing easily read config
data & subscriber lists.



Installing and running mailman 2.x is probably the easy part.  It still
runs fine on my debian sid system - I used apt-mark to hold it before
the transition to mailman3.  I even have a copy of the mailman 2.1.29-1
.deb file if anyone wants it, but you could probably get it easier from
archives.debian.org

You'd have to pick up a few obsolete dependencies from the archives, anyway -
like python (which is a dependancy-only package that depends on python2.7 and
related packages) and python-dnspython. python2.7 is still in debian.

It wouldn't be too hard to re-package mailman and python-dnspython to depend
on "python2.7" or "python2" instead of "python". just update the control file
and rebuild.

$ apt-cache show mailman
Package: mailman
Status: hold ok installed
Priority: optional
Section: mail
Installed-Size: 38226
Maintainer: Mailman for Debian 
Architecture: amd64
Source: mailman (1:2.1.29-1)
Version: 1:2.1.29-1+b1
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.14), python:any, debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, 
logrotate, ucf, lsb-base, apache2 | httpd, cron | cron-daemon, python-dnspython
Pre-Depends: debconf | debconf-2.0
Recommends: default-mta | mail-transport-agent
Suggests: mailman3-full, spamassassin, lynx, listadmin
Conffiles:
 /etc/cron.d/mailman 52d6ae0d505899f9ea4bb416bcbcbaf5
 /etc/logrotate.d/mailman 3e74d5981b732c80bda238f4076e44aa
 /etc/mailman/apache.conf b95d3687fc49957b896e2f27bb5ee165
 /etc/init.d/mailman 0ac814ea3e2cf0952fa5fd3bfa2c9484 obsolete
Description: Web-based mailing list manager (legacy branch)
 The GNU Mailing List Manager, which manages email discussion lists.
 Mailman gives each mailing list a web page, and allows users to
 subscribe, unsubscribe, etc. over the web. The list manager can
 administer his or her list entirely from the web.
 .
 Mailman also integrates most things people want to do with mailing
 lists, including archiving, mail <-> news gateways, and so on. It
 has all of the features you expect from such a product, plus
 integrated support for the web (including web based archiving),
 automated bounce handling and integrated spam prevention.
 .
 Note that this package contains the legacy (2.x) branch of Mailman.
 All new development happens in the Mailman 3 suite, available in
 Debian via the mailman3 metapackage.
Description-md5: c0704b09355713376b05bc252b17bf2c
Homepage: http://www.list.org/



$ apt-cache show python-dnspython
Package: python-dnspython
Status: install ok installed
Priority: optional
Section: python
Installed-Size: 618
Maintainer: Debian Python Modules Team 

Architecture: all
Source: dnspython
Version: 1.16.0-1
Depends: python:any (<< 2.8), python:any (>= 2.7~)
Description: DNS toolkit for Python
 dnspython is a DNS toolkit for Python. It supports almost all record types. It
 can be used for queries, zone transfers, and dynamic updates. It supports TSIG
 authenticated messages and EDNS0.
 .
 dnspython provides both high and low level access to DNS. The high level
 classes perform queries for data of a given name, type, and class, and return
 an answer set. The low level classes allow direct manipulation of DNS zones,
 messages, names, and records.
Description-md5: 5c7ff37ec0055b47241c383f2c0e3c03
Homepage: http://www.dnspython.org

$ apt-cache show python
Package: python
Status: install ok installed
Priority: standard
Section: python
Installed-Size: 68
Maintainer: Matthias Klose 
Architecture: amd64
Multi-Arch: allowed
Source: python-defaults

Re: LUV needs volunteers

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

On Saturday, 2 July 2022 17:50:07 AEST Tony Langdon via luv-main wrote:
> On 2/7/22 2:04 pm, Andrew Pam via luv-main wrote:
> 
> > On 2/7/22 13:09, Yuchen Pei via luv-main wrote:
> > 
> >> Silly question: is the president email supposed to be read by the
> >> president? If so is this a call for someone to volunteer to be the
> >> president?
> > 
> > 
> > Yes it is!  We currently have a vice-president (acting president) and a
> > treasurer.  A volunteer for president would be most welcome!
> 
> 
> Is there a reason the domain renewals go to the president and not to the
> whole committee?  In normal circumstances, the secretary or a dedicated
> tech contact would handle this.

It's just the way it was setup.

But in any case all email needs to be read.  People send mail to that address 
in the expectation that it will be read in some amount of time significantly 
less than 9 months.

-- 
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/

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Re: LUV needs volunteers

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

On Saturday, 2 July 2022 20:12:25 AEST Yuchen Pei wrote:
> On Sat 2022-07-02 11:54:50 +1000, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote:
> > Finally one thing that should be considered is moving the LUV mailing
> > lists to the Linux Australia server.  The latest version of Mailman is a
> > major pain to run and the older version is deprecated.
> 
> I don't quite get this part.  LUV list server seems to be using
> mailman3, whereas mailman2 is still widely used, including the Linux
> Australia list server[1].  By the older version is deprecated do you
> mean that the LUV server cannot *revert* back to mailman2?
> 
> [1] https://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo

It probably can, but it's a pain and no-one is volunteering to do it.

https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=mailman

But if you did it then you would have to support it, Mailman version 2.x is no 
longer in Debian.  At this time someone might suggest using a distribution 
other than Debian which still supports Mailman 2.x, but that makes supporting 
all the other stuff more difficult or requires a second VM.

-- 
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/

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Re: Flounder FOSS phones meeting in 11.5 hours

[Yuchen Pei via luv-main]

On Sat 2022-07-02 01:36:48 +1000, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote:

> https://flounder.linux.org.au/events/flounder-july-2022/
>
> The July meeting will be 1PM Melbourne time (03:00 UTC) on the 2nd of July.  
> The above URL has the details.
>
> It will be about FOSS phones and what has to be done to make regular Linux 
> software work on them with the Librem 5 as a case study and demonstration.  
> Hopefully a demonstration of a PinePhone too.

Relevant to the topic, the h-node project[1] aims at the construction of
a hardware database in order to identify what devices work with a fully
free operating system.  It recently added replicant as a supported
distro.  If you have a phone that can run replicant, PureOS or any fully
free systems, please consider adding the phone to the database:
https://h-node.org/notebooks/catalogue/en

[1] https://h-node.org/

Disclosure: I'm the (sys)admin of the project.

>
> https://b.coker.com.au/
>
> No need to register, just visit the above URL at the appointed time to join 
> the meeting.

Best,
Yuchen

-- 
PGP Key: 47F9 D050 1E11 8879 9040  4941 2126 7E93 EF86 DFD0
  
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Re: LUV needs volunteers

[Yuchen Pei via luv-main]

On Sat 2022-07-02 11:54:50 +1000, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote:

>
> Finally one thing that should be considered is moving the LUV mailing lists 
> to 
> the Linux Australia server.  The latest version of Mailman is a major pain to 
> run and the older version is deprecated.

I don't quite get this part.  LUV list server seems to be using
mailman3, whereas mailman2 is still widely used, including the Linux
Australia list server[1].  By the older version is deprecated do you
mean that the LUV server cannot *revert* back to mailman2?

[1] https://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo

Best,
Yuchen

-- 
PGP Key: 47F9 D050 1E11 8879 9040  4941 2126 7E93 EF86 DFD0
  
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Re: LUV needs volunteers

[Tony Langdon via luv-main]

On 2/7/22 2:04 pm, Andrew Pam via luv-main wrote:
> On 2/7/22 13:09, Yuchen Pei via luv-main wrote:
>> Silly question: is the president email supposed to be read by the
>> president? If so is this a call for someone to volunteer to be the
>> president?
> 
> Yes it is!  We currently have a vice-president (acting president) and a
> treasurer.  A volunteer for president would be most welcome!

Is there a reason the domain renewals go to the president and not to the
whole committee?  In normal circumstances, the secretary or a dedicated
tech contact would handle this.

And no I'm not able to volunteer at this time, I have to sort a few
other things before taking on that kind of role.
-- 
73 de Tony VK3JED/VK3IRL
http://vkradio.com
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