Re: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers

[Andrew Pam via luv-main]

On 2/7/22 18:48, Jonathan Woithe via linux-aus wrote:

Linux Australia (LA) is also happy to handle domain registration and renewal
for LUGs and other similar groups.  We already do this for TasLUG and SLUG
(I think).  LA does not charge LUGs for the domains that it manages on their
behalf - it's part of the service we offer to the community.

If the relevant people are interested in pursuing this for LUV please
contact me or anyone else on the LA council, and we'll make it happen.


That sounds even better!  The LUV committee will make a note to contact 
the LA council when luv.au becomes available and when luv.asn.au is next 
coming up for renewal in 2024.


Thanks,
Andrew
--
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Re: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers

[Andrew Pam via luv-main]

On 2/7/22 14:56, Tim via linux-aus wrote:
I'm happy to offer the same 'service' that I offer PLUG, regarding 
domain registrations to any Australian Linux/Unix user group. I'll 
register the domain through my business wholesale account, and that way 
it's always automatically renewed and paid and I just invoice the LUG 
the cost of the domain (rounded up to the nearest dollar, so $10, so I 
can tell the ATO I am /trying/ to make a profit).


That sounds excellent, thanks.  I have just renewed luv.asn.au for 
another two years, and we currently have luv.au on Priority Hold pending 
release.


Cheers,
Andrew
--
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https://sericyb.com.au/   Manager, Serious Cybernetics
https://glasswings.com.au/Partner, Glass Wings
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Re: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

On Saturday, 9 July 2022 21:21:55 AEST Sonam Dorji wrote:
> Hi, I am happy to volunteer. Let me know how can I help. I am based in
> Canberra and I have just basic knowledge in Linux. However, I would like to
> learn more.

https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux

The Canberra's LUG has some activity on their mailing list, I don't know if 
they still have meetings.  If CLUG has a meeting some time when I'm in 
Canberra I could join that, I could give a talk on something interesting 
related to Linux that I've worked on recently.

http://clug.org.au/
http://matlab.anu.edu.au/

CLUG has 2 web sites, one is broken and the other hasn't been changed for 13 
years.  It would be good if you could find someone to work with you on 
updating those sites and getting more stuff going in Canberra.

https://flounder.linux.org.au/

Also Flounder has only online meetings and may be suitable for you.

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Re: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

On Friday, 8 July 2022 16:42:02 AEST hd via linux-aus wrote:
> How many emails go into the presidents mailbox? (ie ham)
> If all that is required is basic sorting and forwarding I could make
> some time every couple of days to do this.
> I have little knowledge of the workings of LUV, so will not be
> replying to email, but deleting spam and forwarding outstanding bills to
> the treasurer and other email to respective committee members does not
> sound impossible...

There's only 2-3 messages per day, most of which are from the web form and 
therefore identifying spam from ham isn't as easy as with most mail (the 
subject and sender aren't relevant).  But generally mail isn't urgent, you 
could check it once a week.

Most mail that isn't spam is questions about how to join LUV (give them the 
list subscription details) or simple Linux questions (you can answer any that 
you can and point them to a list for anything more difficult).

Nothing really difficult, just has to be done consistently.

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Re: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

On Thursday, 7 July 2022 11:50:56 AEST Paul Foxworthy wrote:
> Just get mailmanlists (mailmanlists.net) to do it. Sydney based and when I
> have needed support they have been very responsive.

Thanks for the suggestion.  While $13/month isn't an impossible amount of 
money I think it's best to avoid spending when possible.  The LA List server 
runs pretty well now that they don't have DKIM problems so running it there 
would be a better option if the choice is to now self host it any more.

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Re: LUV needs volunteers

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

On Friday, 8 July 2022 19:07:25 AEST Melissa Star wrote:
> I’m happy to help, and if you need money to renew the domain, I’ll take on
> the cost (assuming it’s the typical $10-$20ish cost of a .au domain
> renewal).

Thanks for the offer, but LUV has plenty of money being a subcommittee of 
Linux Australia.

While we can hand over the domain to Linux Australia and that would probably 
be the best thing to do given that LUV is a LA subcommittee that still leaves 
the issue that mail needs to be read.

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Re: [Linux-aus] LUV needs volunteers

[Luke Attard via luv-main]

Long answer:

The rule I go by, is if you are on the list, then you can send to the list.

You received the message, so you are on the list, and therefore can 
reply if you want.


Short Answer:

Yes

Regards,

Luke Attard


On 8/07/2022 23:28, Lyndsey Jackson via linux-aus wrote:

Ten bucks and a member gets a tax benefit seems like a good deal to me.

I love tax deductions tho

Am I allowed to reply to this? I don't know the rules

Lyndsey

On Sat, Jul 2, 2022, 2:27 PM Tim via linux-aus 
 wrote:


I'm happy to offer the same 'service' that I offer PLUG, regarding
domain registrations to any Australian Linux/Unix user group. I'll
register the domain through my business wholesale account, and
that way it's always automatically renewed and paid and I just
invoice the LUG the cost of the domain (rounded up to the nearest
dollar, so $10, so I can tell the ATO I am /trying/ to make a
profit). Many years ago we had this recurring issue with PLUG
domains expiring due to there not being a PLUG credit card to have
automatic renewals setup on, and just having an individual put
their card on the line was a little more than people wanted. At
one point we used prepaid cards, but they expire and also people
forget to topup the funds.

As long as the LUG eventually pays the invoice, I'm not concerned,
and I can pester them once a month until it's paid. For many years
I just donated the cost of PLUG's domain instead of bothering with
invoicing, but I no longer make money with my business, it's just
there to give non-profits access to cheap domains and webhosting.

Who am I to offer this? Many many many moons ago I was the PLUG
president, technically still am a PLUG system admin, and now my
involvement is mostly just lurking as having a family doesn't
leave as much free time (and I'm rural to Perth).

Regards

Tim

On Sat, 2 Jul 2022 at 09:55, Russell Coker via linux-aus
 wrote:

Currently no-one is reading the LUV president email.  Email
about the expiry
of luv.asn.au  have been going to the
president mailbox since April and now the
domain is suspended.  I'm CCing this email to the Linux
Australia list because
probably a lot of LUV members won't get this message through
the LUV list due
to the expired domain.

The LUV committee list receives almost no email, the committee
seems entirely
inactive in aggregate.  Presumably Andrew Pam will renew the
domain (as he did
last year) after my monitoring system detected that the domain
was suspended
(as it did last year) due to President email not being read
and it not being
renewed in time.  I'm putting this in a public email because I
don't want to
be falsely accused of being responsible for this debacle as I
was last year.

If LUV is going to run effectively it needs someone to
volunteer to read the
president email.  It gets an average of 2-3 spam messages per
day which is
probably not much compared to the spam that slips through most
of our spam
filters.

Most of the LUV president spam comes from the web contact
form.  The contact
page could be changed to not have a form for submitting a
message and instead
refer to a Matrix address or something, it's easy to change. 
While I've
generally given up on all LUV sysadmin tasks than the minimum
needed to keep
things running I would be happy to change the contact page to
something that
will get a response for people who want information (IE
anything other than
going to a mailbox that hasn't been read since early September
2021).

Finally one thing that should be considered is moving the LUV
mailing lists to
the Linux Australia server.  The latest version of Mailman is
a major pain to
run and the older version is deprecated.  It doesn't seem
likely that anyone
will volunteer to give the LUV mailing lists the attention
that's needed to
get them running properly and the LA lists are maintained
properly.

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My Documents Blog http://doc.coker.com.au/



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Re: LUV needs volunteers

[Melissa Star via luv-main]

Hi everyone,

I’m happy to help, and if you need money to renew the domain, I’ll take on the 
cost (assuming it’s the typical $10-$20ish cost of a .au domain renewal).

If anyone want to call my number is 0409 005 005.

Regards,

Melissa

> On 8/07/2022, at 4:42 PM, hd via luv-main  wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 02 Jul 2022 11:54:50 +1000
> Russell Coker via luv-main  wrote:
> 
>> Currently no-one is reading the LUV president email.  Email about the
>> expiry of luv.asn.au have been going to the president mailbox since
>> April and now the domain is suspended.  I'm CCing this email to the
>> Linux Australia list because probably a lot of LUV members won't get
>> this message through the LUV list due to the expired domain.
>> 
>> The LUV committee list receives almost no email, the committee seems
>> entirely inactive in aggregate.  Presumably Andrew Pam will renew the
>> domain (as he did last year) after my monitoring system detected that
>> the domain was suspended (as it did last year) due to President email
>> not being read and it not being renewed in time.  I'm putting this in
>> a public email because I don't want to be falsely accused of being
>> responsible for this debacle as I was last year.
>> 
>> If LUV is going to run effectively it needs someone to volunteer to
>> read the president email.  It gets an average of 2-3 spam messages
>> per day which is probably not much compared to the spam that slips
>> through most of our spam filters.
>> 
>> Most of the LUV president spam comes from the web contact form.  The
>> contact page could be changed to not have a form for submitting a
>> message and instead refer to a Matrix address or something, it's easy
>> to change.  While I've generally given up on all LUV sysadmin tasks
>> than the minimum needed to keep things running I would be happy to
>> change the contact page to something that will get a response for
>> people who want information (IE anything other than going to a
>> mailbox that hasn't been read since early September 2021).
>> 
>> Finally one thing that should be considered is moving the LUV mailing
>> lists to the Linux Australia server.  The latest version of Mailman
>> is a major pain to run and the older version is deprecated.  It
>> doesn't seem likely that anyone will volunteer to give the LUV
>> mailing lists the attention that's needed to get them running
>> properly and the LA lists are maintained properly.
>> 
> 
> How many emails go into the presidents mailbox? (ie ham)
> If all that is required is basic sorting and forwarding I could make
> some time every couple of days to do this.
> I have little knowledge of the workings of LUV, so will not be
> replying to email, but deleting spam and forwarding outstanding bills to
> the treasurer and other email to respective committee members does not
> sound impossible...
> H
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Re: LUV needs volunteers

[hd via luv-main]

On Sat, 02 Jul 2022 11:54:50 +1000
Russell Coker via luv-main  wrote:

> Currently no-one is reading the LUV president email.  Email about the
> expiry of luv.asn.au have been going to the president mailbox since
> April and now the domain is suspended.  I'm CCing this email to the
> Linux Australia list because probably a lot of LUV members won't get
> this message through the LUV list due to the expired domain.
> 
> The LUV committee list receives almost no email, the committee seems
> entirely inactive in aggregate.  Presumably Andrew Pam will renew the
> domain (as he did last year) after my monitoring system detected that
> the domain was suspended (as it did last year) due to President email
> not being read and it not being renewed in time.  I'm putting this in
> a public email because I don't want to be falsely accused of being
> responsible for this debacle as I was last year.
> 
> If LUV is going to run effectively it needs someone to volunteer to
> read the president email.  It gets an average of 2-3 spam messages
> per day which is probably not much compared to the spam that slips
> through most of our spam filters.
> 
> Most of the LUV president spam comes from the web contact form.  The
> contact page could be changed to not have a form for submitting a
> message and instead refer to a Matrix address or something, it's easy
> to change.  While I've generally given up on all LUV sysadmin tasks
> than the minimum needed to keep things running I would be happy to
> change the contact page to something that will get a response for
> people who want information (IE anything other than going to a
> mailbox that hasn't been read since early September 2021).
> 
> Finally one thing that should be considered is moving the LUV mailing
> lists to the Linux Australia server.  The latest version of Mailman
> is a major pain to run and the older version is deprecated.  It
> doesn't seem likely that anyone will volunteer to give the LUV
> mailing lists the attention that's needed to get them running
> properly and the LA lists are maintained properly.
> 

How many emails go into the presidents mailbox? (ie ham)
If all that is required is basic sorting and forwarding I could make
some time every couple of days to do this.
I have little knowledge of the workings of LUV, so will not be
replying to email, but deleting spam and forwarding outstanding bills to
the treasurer and other email to respective committee members does not
sound impossible...
H
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Re: LUV needs volunteers

[Craig Sanders via luv-main]

On Sat, Jul 02, 2022 at 09:10:28PM +1000, russ...@coker.com.au wrote:

RE: reverting to mailman 2:

> It probably can, but it's a pain and no-one is volunteering to do it.
>
> https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=mailman

> But if you did it then you would have to support it, Mailman version
> 2.x is no longer in Debian.  At this time someone might suggest using a
> distribution other than Debian which still supports Mailman 2.x, but that
> makes supporting all the other stuff more difficult or requires a second VM.

I'm not volunteering to do the conversion (if the current lists work, why fix
them?), but...

The hard part would be converting the mailing lists, including subscriber
lists and archives back to mailman 2.x.  Mailman stores most of its config
data and subscriber lists in python's pickle format (a binary serialised
object dump - python devs think this kind of shit is a good idea*. Using a
fragile and non-human-readable/editable binary format can save nanoseconds,
perhaps even microseconds, compared to parsing plain text), and I expect the
objects and data structures have changed between the two versions.

* It can be a good idea in some circumstances, like quickly saving state for
a long-running process or saving an object into a key-value store or database
for convenient re-use by other threads on other machines. Internal-use-only
data.  Stuff that no human (or program written in another language) is ever
likely to need to interact with directly. Not for storing easily read config
data & subscriber lists.



Installing and running mailman 2.x is probably the easy part.  It still
runs fine on my debian sid system - I used apt-mark to hold it before
the transition to mailman3.  I even have a copy of the mailman 2.1.29-1
.deb file if anyone wants it, but you could probably get it easier from
archives.debian.org

You'd have to pick up a few obsolete dependencies from the archives, anyway -
like python (which is a dependancy-only package that depends on python2.7 and
related packages) and python-dnspython. python2.7 is still in debian.

It wouldn't be too hard to re-package mailman and python-dnspython to depend
on "python2.7" or "python2" instead of "python". just update the control file
and rebuild.

$ apt-cache show mailman
Package: mailman
Status: hold ok installed
Priority: optional
Section: mail
Installed-Size: 38226
Maintainer: Mailman for Debian 
Architecture: amd64
Source: mailman (1:2.1.29-1)
Version: 1:2.1.29-1+b1
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.14), python:any, debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, 
logrotate, ucf, lsb-base, apache2 | httpd, cron | cron-daemon, python-dnspython
Pre-Depends: debconf | debconf-2.0
Recommends: default-mta | mail-transport-agent
Suggests: mailman3-full, spamassassin, lynx, listadmin
Conffiles:
 /etc/cron.d/mailman 52d6ae0d505899f9ea4bb416bcbcbaf5
 /etc/logrotate.d/mailman 3e74d5981b732c80bda238f4076e44aa
 /etc/mailman/apache.conf b95d3687fc49957b896e2f27bb5ee165
 /etc/init.d/mailman 0ac814ea3e2cf0952fa5fd3bfa2c9484 obsolete
Description: Web-based mailing list manager (legacy branch)
 The GNU Mailing List Manager, which manages email discussion lists.
 Mailman gives each mailing list a web page, and allows users to
 subscribe, unsubscribe, etc. over the web. The list manager can
 administer his or her list entirely from the web.
 .
 Mailman also integrates most things people want to do with mailing
 lists, including archiving, mail <-> news gateways, and so on. It
 has all of the features you expect from such a product, plus
 integrated support for the web (including web based archiving),
 automated bounce handling and integrated spam prevention.
 .
 Note that this package contains the legacy (2.x) branch of Mailman.
 All new development happens in the Mailman 3 suite, available in
 Debian via the mailman3 metapackage.
Description-md5: c0704b09355713376b05bc252b17bf2c
Homepage: http://www.list.org/



$ apt-cache show python-dnspython
Package: python-dnspython
Status: install ok installed
Priority: optional
Section: python
Installed-Size: 618
Maintainer: Debian Python Modules Team 

Architecture: all
Source: dnspython
Version: 1.16.0-1
Depends: python:any (<< 2.8), python:any (>= 2.7~)
Description: DNS toolkit for Python
 dnspython is a DNS toolkit for Python. It supports almost all record types. It
 can be used for queries, zone transfers, and dynamic updates. It supports TSIG
 authenticated messages and EDNS0.
 .
 dnspython provides both high and low level access to DNS. The high level
 classes perform queries for data of a given name, type, and class, and return
 an answer set. The low level classes allow direct manipulation of DNS zones,
 messages, names, and records.
Description-md5: 5c7ff37ec0055b47241c383f2c0e3c03
Homepage: http://www.dnspython.org

$ apt-cache show python
Package: python
Status: install ok installed
Priority: standard
Section: python
Installed-Size: 68
Maintainer: Matthias Klose 
Architecture: amd64
Multi-Arch: allowed
Source: python-defaults

Re: LUV needs volunteers

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

On Saturday, 2 July 2022 17:50:07 AEST Tony Langdon via luv-main wrote:
> On 2/7/22 2:04 pm, Andrew Pam via luv-main wrote:
> 
> > On 2/7/22 13:09, Yuchen Pei via luv-main wrote:
> > 
> >> Silly question: is the president email supposed to be read by the
> >> president? If so is this a call for someone to volunteer to be the
> >> president?
> > 
> > 
> > Yes it is!  We currently have a vice-president (acting president) and a
> > treasurer.  A volunteer for president would be most welcome!
> 
> 
> Is there a reason the domain renewals go to the president and not to the
> whole committee?  In normal circumstances, the secretary or a dedicated
> tech contact would handle this.

It's just the way it was setup.

But in any case all email needs to be read.  People send mail to that address 
in the expectation that it will be read in some amount of time significantly 
less than 9 months.

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Re: LUV needs volunteers

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

On Saturday, 2 July 2022 20:12:25 AEST Yuchen Pei wrote:
> On Sat 2022-07-02 11:54:50 +1000, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote:
> > Finally one thing that should be considered is moving the LUV mailing
> > lists to the Linux Australia server.  The latest version of Mailman is a
> > major pain to run and the older version is deprecated.
> 
> I don't quite get this part.  LUV list server seems to be using
> mailman3, whereas mailman2 is still widely used, including the Linux
> Australia list server[1].  By the older version is deprecated do you
> mean that the LUV server cannot *revert* back to mailman2?
> 
> [1] https://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo

It probably can, but it's a pain and no-one is volunteering to do it.

https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=mailman

But if you did it then you would have to support it, Mailman version 2.x is no 
longer in Debian.  At this time someone might suggest using a distribution 
other than Debian which still supports Mailman 2.x, but that makes supporting 
all the other stuff more difficult or requires a second VM.

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Re: LUV needs volunteers

[Yuchen Pei via luv-main]

On Sat 2022-07-02 11:54:50 +1000, Russell Coker via luv-main wrote:

>
> Finally one thing that should be considered is moving the LUV mailing lists 
> to 
> the Linux Australia server.  The latest version of Mailman is a major pain to 
> run and the older version is deprecated.

I don't quite get this part.  LUV list server seems to be using
mailman3, whereas mailman2 is still widely used, including the Linux
Australia list server[1].  By the older version is deprecated do you
mean that the LUV server cannot *revert* back to mailman2?

[1] https://lists.linux.org.au/mailman/listinfo

Best,
Yuchen

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Re: LUV needs volunteers

[Tony Langdon via luv-main]

On 2/7/22 2:04 pm, Andrew Pam via luv-main wrote:
> On 2/7/22 13:09, Yuchen Pei via luv-main wrote:
>> Silly question: is the president email supposed to be read by the
>> president? If so is this a call for someone to volunteer to be the
>> president?
> 
> Yes it is!  We currently have a vice-president (acting president) and a
> treasurer.  A volunteer for president would be most welcome!

Is there a reason the domain renewals go to the president and not to the
whole committee?  In normal circumstances, the secretary or a dedicated
tech contact would handle this.

And no I'm not able to volunteer at this time, I have to sort a few
other things before taking on that kind of role.
-- 
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http://vkradio.com
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Re: LUV needs volunteers

[Andrew Pam via luv-main]

On 2/7/22 13:09, Yuchen Pei via luv-main wrote:

Silly question: is the president email supposed to be read by the president? If 
so is this a call for someone to volunteer to be the president?


Yes it is!  We currently have a vice-president (acting president) and a 
treasurer.  A volunteer for president would be most welcome!


Cheers,
Andrew
--
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https://sericyb.com.au/   Manager, Serious Cybernetics
https://glasswings.com.au/Partner, Glass Wings
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Re: LUV needs volunteers

[Yuchen Pei via luv-main]

On 2 July 2022 11:54:50 GMT+10:00, Russell Coker via luv-main 
 wrote:
>Currently no-one is reading the LUV president email.  Email about the expiry 
>of luv.asn.au have been going to the president mailbox since April and now the 
>domain is suspended.  I'm CCing this email to the Linux Australia list because 
>probably a lot of LUV members won't get this message through the LUV list due 
>to the expired domain.
>
>The LUV committee list receives almost no email, the committee seems entirely 
>inactive in aggregate.  Presumably Andrew Pam will renew the domain (as he did 
>last year) after my monitoring system detected that the domain was suspended 
>(as it did last year) due to President email not being read and it not being 
>renewed in time.  I'm putting this in a public email because I don't want to 
>be falsely accused of being responsible for this debacle as I was last year.
>
>If LUV is going to run effectively it needs someone to volunteer to read the 
>president email.

Silly question: is the president email supposed to be read by the president? If 
so is this a call for someone to volunteer to be the president?



-- 
Best,
Yuchen

Sent from a mobile device. Please excuse my brevity, typos and lack of pgp.
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LUV needs volunteers

[Russell Coker via luv-main]

Currently no-one is reading the LUV president email.  Email about the expiry 
of luv.asn.au have been going to the president mailbox since April and now the 
domain is suspended.  I'm CCing this email to the Linux Australia list because 
probably a lot of LUV members won't get this message through the LUV list due 
to the expired domain.

The LUV committee list receives almost no email, the committee seems entirely 
inactive in aggregate.  Presumably Andrew Pam will renew the domain (as he did 
last year) after my monitoring system detected that the domain was suspended 
(as it did last year) due to President email not being read and it not being 
renewed in time.  I'm putting this in a public email because I don't want to 
be falsely accused of being responsible for this debacle as I was last year.

If LUV is going to run effectively it needs someone to volunteer to read the 
president email.  It gets an average of 2-3 spam messages per day which is 
probably not much compared to the spam that slips through most of our spam 
filters.

Most of the LUV president spam comes from the web contact form.  The contact 
page could be changed to not have a form for submitting a message and instead 
refer to a Matrix address or something, it's easy to change.  While I've 
generally given up on all LUV sysadmin tasks than the minimum needed to keep 
things running I would be happy to change the contact page to something that 
will get a response for people who want information (IE anything other than 
going to a mailbox that hasn't been read since early September 2021).

Finally one thing that should be considered is moving the LUV mailing lists to 
the Linux Australia server.  The latest version of Mailman is a major pain to 
run and the older version is deprecated.  It doesn't seem likely that anyone 
will volunteer to give the LUV mailing lists the attention that's needed to 
get them running properly and the LA lists are maintained properly.

-- 
My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/
My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/



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