Re: bug report on version 1.1.2
If possible, please compress any files before attaching them to emails. I hope this wouldn't bother anybody. Actually, I have got problem getting this mail because the last part of MIME is truncated. I don't know why. Maybe because it's attached as text and there's some characters which aren't encoded. Anyway, compressing attachment could save a lot of bandwidth for everybody. Thanks for your comprehension. Seak
Re: bug report on version 1.1.2
If possible, please compress any files before attaching them to emails. I hope this wouldn't bother anybody. Actually, I have got problem getting this mail because the last part of MIME is truncated. I don't know why. Maybe because it's attached as text and there's some characters which aren't encoded. Anyway, compressing attachment could save a lot of bandwidth for everybody. Thanks for your comprehension. Seak
Re: multibyte support for lyx
Hello, I began (which much delay, sorry) looking at this, but I am not sure how to present information. Currently, we have on the relevant page: lia href="http://hpws3.ihep.ac.cn/~zhaojw/" Chinese document composing module/a will allow you to use LyX 1.0.1 to write Chinese documents. See also a href="http://www.ihep.ac.cn/~yumj" the chinput package/a. a href="http://tsikora.tiac.net/pub/os2/unix/xfree86/ports/LyX/" Alternate link/a. /li One or two of these links are invalid. Forgot which one(s).
Re: multibyte support for lyx
> Hello, > > I began (which much delay, sorry) looking at this, but I am not sure > how to present information. Currently, we have on the relevant page: > > http://hpws3.ihep.ac.cn/~zhaojw/"> > Chinese document composing module will allow you to use LyX 1.0.1 > to write Chinese documents. See also http://www.ihep.ac.cn/~yumj"> > the chinput package. href="http://tsikora.tiac.net/pub/os2/unix/xfree86/ports/LyX/"> Alternate > link. One or two of these links are invalid. Forgot which one(s).
What is this message?
I'm testing the 1.1.4pre2 and got this message. What are they? TextCache: buffer Buffer: 0x8280d90 Width: 667 TextCache: buffer delete all Buffer: 0x8280d90 Width: 667 TextCache: buffer Buffer: 0x8290640 Width: 667 TextCache: buffer Buffer: 0x8290640 Width: 667 Buffer: 0x8290fa8 Width: 667
What is this message?
I'm testing the 1.1.4pre2 and got this message. What are they? TextCache: buffer Buffer: 0x8280d90 Width: 667 TextCache: buffer delete all Buffer: 0x8280d90 Width: 667 TextCache: buffer Buffer: 0x8290640 Width: 667 TextCache: buffer Buffer: 0x8290640 Width: 667 Buffer: 0x8290fa8 Width: 667
Re: Bug in math editor using emacs-style key bindings
Angus Leeming wrote: A. My patience has snapped! I find LyX so impressive that I use it [] button (to click out). This functionality means that using emacs-style key bindings are a pain in the neck, as Copy marked text is Esc-w. I have to find the pull-down menu everytime, or cut and re-paste. Could I request that this feature be removed so that emacs-style bindings are useable. Please, please, please. Isn't it possible to bind Ctrl+C to copy? Nowadays, it's almost a universal convention to use Ctrl+C (or Option C for Macs) for copy in any system, any application. It'd better get rid of emacs' archaic keybinding. Seak
Re: Bug in math editor using emacs-style key bindings
Angus Leeming wrote: > A. My patience has snapped! I find LyX so impressive that I use it > [] > button (to click out). > > This functionality means that using emacs-style key bindings are a pain in the > neck, as Copy marked text is Esc-w. I have to find the pull-down menu everytime, > or cut and re-paste. > > Could I request that this feature be removed so that emacs-style bindings are > useable. Please, please, please. Isn't it possible to bind Ctrl+C to copy? Nowadays, it's almost a universal convention to use Ctrl+C (or Option C for Macs) for copy in any system, any application. It'd better get rid of emacs' archaic keybinding. Seak
Re: file format
Andre Poenitz wrote: I'd actually prefer ocirc; since this is non-ambiguous. Writing 8 bit in some encoding make life only simpler if you are reading the .lyx with the naked eye if you happen to use the correct enconding. And that should happen only in vary rare circumstances. It's true that even if, say ISO-8859-8, is written at the beginning of the file, it doesn't help us get the correct encoding automatically in a simple text editor. However, on the other hand, ; is useful and meaningful only for Latin-1 letters and simple Greek letters (with accents). To simply analysis, take a 8 bit non-Latin-1 encoding, say iso8859-8 for Hebrew (because that's the lastest success in LyX) as example. You see, in this encoding (as well as others, of course), if we have to use xxx; for non-Ascii characters, we could only write numeric forms because there's no entities for these (non-Latin1 characters). For example, take the letter "aleph", its code is \xE0 in ISO-8859-8 (correct me if I'm wrong), and thus it has to be written as #xE0; or #224; In this case, it's as ambiguous as using the binary value and it's not hard to imagine that this isn't readable either to naked eyes. The same problem will occur if Unicode (UTF-8) is used in the future. That's why it's absolutely necessary to precise the encoding at the very beginning of the file. But of course, we could have a compromise: for well-known entities like Aacute; szlig; etc, ; format is used. Otherwise, binary code is used. But the final decision is up to you because for normal users, it's very rare they have to read lyx file in a text editor :) The current format is not perfect (You'll notice this once you try to write a parser for it ;-)). If we switch to XML(...ish) we get a lot of cake for free: Everybody who writes a XML-to-something converter automatically writes a LYX-to-thesamething converter. Currently only LyX itself can read .lyx, and that is not tolerable in a setting where interoperability matters. I see. If we expect LyX-2-something converter to be written by others based on Xml-2-something, maybe we should use stricter Xml structure/syntax, no? Of course, this is the 'Correct Way'. However, LyX's internal structure does exactly look like what I 'translated'. The section's title is marked as 'Section', the content as 'Standard'. The 'Correct Way' would probably be to change the internals, too. But let's do this slowly ;-) I just remember that in latex, it's also written \section, right? Well, maybe we could change nothing at all. But we could invent another tag to englobe the whole section (well, if it's possible). Seak
Re: a plea for XML, was RE: file format
Andre Poenitz wrote:
*grin* Aehm... yes... now as you mention it... Part of my vision
is some interface to some computer algebra system. If LyX had this, I
could demonstrate my boss that LyX is indeed superior to Scientific
Workplace ;--)
You remind me something. Since the example file is too big, I failed to
find the mathematical formula. How is it written? Latex syntax like \frac{},
\int{} are used and embedded as string in attribute value? Or MathML is used?
We have to think of this seriously. After all, mathematic typesetting
constitute an important part in latex, and scientific community is its main
supporter.
Seak
Re: file format
Andre Poenitz wrote: > I'd actually prefer since this is non-ambiguous. > > Writing 8 bit in some encoding make life only simpler if you are reading > the .lyx with the naked eye if you happen to use the correct enconding. > And that should happen only in vary rare circumstances. It's true that even if, say ISO-8859-8, is written at the beginning of the file, it doesn't help us get the correct encoding automatically in a simple text editor. However, on the other hand, is useful and meaningful only for Latin-1 letters and simple Greek letters (with accents). To simply analysis, take a 8 bit non-Latin-1 encoding, say iso8859-8 for Hebrew (because that's the lastest success in LyX) as example. You see, in this encoding (as well as others, of course), if we have to use for non-Ascii characters, we could only write numeric forms because there's no entities for these (non-Latin1 characters). For example, take the letter "aleph", its code is \xE0 in ISO-8859-8 (correct me if I'm wrong), and thus it has to be written as or In this case, it's as ambiguous as using the binary value and it's not hard to imagine that this isn't readable either to naked eyes. The same problem will occur if Unicode (UTF-8) is used in the future. That's why it's absolutely necessary to precise the encoding at the very beginning of the file. But of course, we could have a compromise: for well-known entities like etc, format is used. Otherwise, binary code is used. But the final decision is up to you because for normal users, it's very rare they have to read lyx file in a text editor :) > The current format is not perfect (You'll notice this once you try to > write a parser for it ;-)). If we switch to XML(...ish) we get a lot of > cake for free: Everybody who writes a XML-to-something converter > automatically writes a LYX-to-thesamething converter. Currently only LyX itself can > read .lyx, and that is not tolerable in a setting where > interoperability matters. I see. If we expect LyX-2-something converter to be written by others based on Xml-2-something, maybe we should use stricter Xml structure/syntax, no? > Of course, this is the 'Correct Way'. However, LyX's internal structure does exactly > look like what I 'translated'. The section's title is marked as > 'Section', the content as 'Standard'. > The 'Correct Way' would probably be to change the internals, too. > But let's do this slowly ;-) I just remember that in latex, it's also written \section, right? Well, maybe we could change nothing at all. But we could invent another tag to englobe the whole section (well, if it's possible). Seak
Re: a plea for XML, was RE: file format
Andre Poenitz wrote:
> *grin* Aehm... yes... now as you mention it... Part of my vision
> is some interface to some computer algebra system. If LyX had this, I
> could demonstrate my boss that LyX is indeed superior to Scientific
> Workplace ;--)
You remind me something. Since the example file is too big, I failed to
find the mathematical formula. How is it written? Latex syntax like \frac{},
\int{} are used and embedded as string in attribute value? Or MathML is used?
We have to think of this seriously. After all, mathematic typesetting
constitute an important part in latex, and scientific community is its main
supporter.
Seak
XForm's website is down?
In LyX's website, there's a link pointing to XForm's website. But for more than one week, I'm still unable to get in it. Is this the only site? Is it down forever? It would be frustrating for new users who want to try lyx. Is there any backup xform library files available in LyX's website? At least source code? Seak
XForm's website is down?
In LyX's website, there's a link pointing to XForm's website. But for more than one week, I'm still unable to get in it. Is this the only site? Is it down forever? It would be frustrating for new users who want to try lyx. Is there any backup xform library files available in LyX's website? At least source code? Seak
Re: LyX-1.1.1 crashes with File-Export-Custom-Ascii-program
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: "Allan" == Allan Rae [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Allan I'm glad to see you are still in good spirits I was worried for Allan you and our other European developers given the wild winds you Allan had in Paris and the storms elsewhere. Well, here we just had a bunch of trees down (one half in the wood I'm facing right now) and some problems with electricity. In other parts of france, there are still tenth of thousand people without electricity/water/phone (pick two). Although it was really a catastrophe in France, it seems to me that the situation in France was exageratedly mis-reported in foreign countries. I learnt that in Asia, some TV reported that more than 2/3 of France lacked electricity and thus paralyzed! Well, that's a very bad interpretation of information. Actually, there're about 100 departments (equivalent to counties) in France. At a moment, about 70 departments were affected. But that didn't mean every department amongst them was entirely deprived of electricity (water/phone). Nevertheless, that's how the number 2/3 (~= 70/100) came from :-) But in terms of population, I think about 1/10 of the whole population was affected. What do you think, Jean-Marc? But the funniest part is that we had one of the only y2k bug: the countdown on the eiffel tower stopped to work 4 hours before midnight :) Yeah, that's really funny, but I don't understand why the counter was out of order several hours before midnight. I didn't expect a y2k bug to show up in this way!! Seak
Re: web site mirrors?
Allan Rae wrote: On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Amir Karger wrote: Hey Allan, remember this? Are you or anyone else interested in expanding our mirrorage? (I've had this mail sitting in my box for almost a year now, as you can see.) Do you want the list? I'm sure I sent that to the mailing list during the same discussion. IMO, it's not enough just to expand mirror sites list, but maintainence is also important. You see, right now there're 3 mirror sites. That one in Mexico is inaccessible, and the other two in Norway and Italy are totally out of dates (more than half a year late). I've reported the problem of the mirror in Italy several months ago, but it's never corrected. Adding mirror sites without proper maintainence would just give the impression of anarchy. Seak
Re: LyX-1.1.1 crashes with File->Export->Custom->Ascii->program
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > > "Allan" == Allan Rae <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Allan> I'm glad to see you are still in good spirits I was worried for > Allan> you and our other European developers given the wild winds you > Allan> had in Paris and the storms elsewhere. > > Well, here we just had a bunch of trees down (one half in the wood I'm > facing right now) and some problems with electricity. In other parts > of france, there are still tenth of thousand people without > electricity/water/phone (pick two). Although it was really a catastrophe in France, it seems to me that the situation in France was exageratedly mis-reported in foreign countries. I learnt that in Asia, some TV reported that more than 2/3 of France lacked electricity and thus paralyzed! Well, that's a very bad interpretation of information. Actually, there're about 100 departments (equivalent to counties) in France. At a moment, about 70 departments were affected. But that didn't mean every department amongst them was entirely deprived of electricity (water/phone). Nevertheless, that's how the number 2/3 (~= 70/100) came from :-) But in terms of population, I think about 1/10 of the whole population was affected. What do you think, Jean-Marc? > But the funniest part is that we had one of the only y2k bug: the > countdown on the eiffel tower stopped to work 4 hours before midnight :) Yeah, that's really funny, but I don't understand why the counter was out of order several hours before midnight. I didn't expect a y2k bug to show up in this way!! Seak
Re: web site mirrors?
Allan Rae wrote: > On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Amir Karger wrote: > > > Hey Allan, remember this? Are you or anyone else interested in expanding our > > mirrorage? (I've had this mail sitting in my box for almost a year now, as > > you can see.) > > Do you want the list? I'm sure I sent that to the mailing list during the > same discussion. IMO, it's not enough just to expand mirror sites list, but maintainence is also important. You see, right now there're 3 mirror sites. That one in Mexico is inaccessible, and the other two in Norway and Italy are totally out of dates (more than half a year late). I've reported the problem of the mirror in Italy several months ago, but it's never corrected. Adding mirror sites without proper maintainence would just give the impression of anarchy. Seak
Re: Internationalization and cvs
"Asger K. Alstrup Nielsen" wrote: However, if the toolkit (or any other external component) can not handle Unicode, we will have the code in LyX to convert to whatever is appropriate. XForm just only cannot support Unicode, or it cannot support multi-byte in general? Oh, by the way, the latest versin 1.5 of yudit works quite satisfactory. I think we could count on it when we want to do translations. I wrote a long document regarding the encoding and representation issue in LyX a year or two ago. This document used to reside on the old ftp-area, but that harddisk crashed. Maybe someone has a copy on this list, and can upload it to ftp again? I still have the file. I'll send it to you in another mail. Regards Seak
Re: Internationalization and cvs
"Asger K. Alstrup Nielsen" wrote: > However, if the toolkit (or any other external component) can not > handle Unicode, we will have the code in LyX to convert to whatever is > appropriate. XForm just only cannot support Unicode, or it cannot support multi-byte in general? Oh, by the way, the latest versin 1.5 of yudit works quite satisfactory. I think we could count on it when we want to do translations. > I wrote a long document regarding the encoding and representation > issue in LyX a year or two ago. This document used to reside on the > old ftp-area, but that harddisk crashed. Maybe someone has a copy > on this list, and can upload it to ftp again? I still have the file. I'll send it to you in another mail. Regards Seak
Re: Internalization
Shigeru Miyata wrote: Actually, newer versions of XFree86 support already natively Unicode, so do a lot of commercial X (if not all). It also introduces Big5 support. Other multibyte encodings have been supported for quite some time. Yup, I know that. I just mentioned Unicode because I wanted to high-light its usage. :-) So I suppose characters (eg in menus) are displayed using Unicode. What gain do we have? For LyX, Latin-1 languages and maybe even 8 bit encoded languages, I'm afraid the gain is quite small. One obvious advantage is that there's no need to translate menu/message strings to Unicode from their "original" encoding. But for other language, the benefit should be greater. In traditional Chinese, Big5 isn't the unique encoding: there're EUC-TW and XCN-11643-x and some extension created to suit daily usage in HK. In one word, it's a mess. I don't know much about Japanese, but I know that there're JIS, EUC-JP and Shift JIS. It seems that one of them is used in Windows while another one is for Unix/X, right? Auto JIS is the automatic recognition, right? Could it do the job flawlessly? Don't you find it frustrated to have so many different encodings? The same exists for other languages like Greek and Russian in which one encoding is for Unix/X and the other is for Windows. As there're a significant number of LyX users under Windows, some of them might want to contribute to the translation too. Imagine the trouble they would encounter when some of them edit the translation file under Unix while others under Windows. A little carelessness on encoding will mess up the whole translation file which is very big file. Luckily, CVS might help them to save some of their work, but certainly not all. However, people still use Big5 as traditional Chinese encoding. Convesion from Big5 to and from Unicode isn't quite straightforward as from Latin-1 to and from Unicode. If the translation is done in Big5, there will be a lot of unnecessary conversion Big5 - Unicode. On the contrary. In order to communicate with existing applications, people continue using traditional encodings as document languages. So if we use Unicode here, then we will have to have unnecessary conversions. I was talking about menu/message strings encoding. So there shouldn't be any problem because we can't cut and paste a menu item :-) For document encoding, you're surely correct. Take Linux as example, isn't it that the conversion is done by the kernel? It seems to be so at least for consoles since kernel uses Unicode internally. That's why I ask if it's better to use Unicode as the underlying encoding. I take Chinese as an example, but the argument can be very well applied to Japanese, Korean and any language encodings other than Latin-1. [...] And how are .po files saved? Any encoding you like as far as it is a superset of 7 bit ASCII. (utf-8, EUC, Big5, Shift-JIS, KS...) By "superset of 7bit ASCII", do you mean that every byte is 7 bit? If yes, UTF-7 should be used instead. On the other hand, Big5 couldn't be used because the encoding is 8 bit based. However, FYI, XForms cannot draw 16 bit character strings. I just remembered that in CLE (Chinese Linux Externsion) package, they manage to display Chinese in LyX. Or is it KLyX? Seak
Re: Internalization
Shigeru Miyata wrote: > > Actually, newer versions of XFree86 support already natively Unicode, so > > do a lot of commercial X (if not all). > > It also introduces Big5 support. Other multibyte encodings have been > supported for quite some time. Yup, I know that. I just mentioned Unicode because I wanted to high-light its usage. :-) > > So I suppose characters (eg in menus) are displayed using Unicode. > > What gain do we have? For LyX, Latin-1 languages and maybe even 8 bit encoded languages, I'm afraid the gain is quite small. One obvious advantage is that there's no need to translate menu/message strings to Unicode from their "original" encoding. But for other language, the benefit should be greater. In traditional Chinese, Big5 isn't the unique encoding: there're EUC-TW and XCN-11643-x and some extension created to suit daily usage in HK. In one word, it's a mess. I don't know much about Japanese, but I know that there're JIS, EUC-JP and Shift JIS. It seems that one of them is used in Windows while another one is for Unix/X, right? Auto JIS is the automatic recognition, right? Could it do the job flawlessly? Don't you find it frustrated to have so many different encodings? The same exists for other languages like Greek and Russian in which one encoding is for Unix/X and the other is for Windows. As there're a significant number of LyX users under Windows, some of them might want to contribute to the translation too. Imagine the trouble they would encounter when some of them edit the translation file under Unix while others under Windows. A little carelessness on encoding will mess up the whole translation file which is very big file. Luckily, CVS might help them to save some of their work, but certainly not all. > > However, people still use Big5 as > > traditional Chinese encoding. Convesion from Big5 to and from Unicode > > isn't quite straightforward as from Latin-1 to and from Unicode. If the > > translation is done in Big5, there will be a lot of unnecessary > > conversion Big5 <-> Unicode. > > On the contrary. In order to communicate with existing applications, > people continue using traditional encodings as document languages. > So if we use Unicode here, then we will have to have unnecessary > conversions. I was talking about menu/message strings encoding. So there shouldn't be any problem because we can't cut and paste a menu item :-) For document encoding, you're surely correct. Take Linux as example, isn't it that the conversion is done by the kernel? It seems to be so at least for consoles since kernel uses Unicode internally. > > That's why I ask if it's better to use > > Unicode as the underlying encoding. I take Chinese as an example, but > > the argument can be very well applied to Japanese, Korean and any > > language encodings other than Latin-1. > [...] > > And how are .po files saved? > > Any encoding you like as far as it is a superset of 7 bit ASCII. > (utf-8, EUC, Big5, Shift-JIS, KS...) By "superset of 7bit ASCII", do you mean that every byte is 7 bit? If yes, UTF-7 should be used instead. On the other hand, Big5 couldn't be used because the encoding is 8 bit based. > However, FYI, XForms cannot draw 16 bit character strings. I just remembered that in CLE (Chinese Linux Externsion) package, they manage to display Chinese in LyX. Or is it KLyX? Seak
Re: Hebrew support for LyX
Shigeru Miyata wrote: "Seak, Teng-Fong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chinese (as well as Japanese and Korean) can also be written from right to left, even though this isn't very common nowadays. Actually, in tradition, Chinese is written from top to the bottom, then from right to left. But I don't think Latex is able to support this :-) Theoretically speaking it is of course possible. However, dimensions [deleted] TTB_RTL (for Chinese, Japanese, etc.) and TTB_LTR (for Mongolian) primitives. Actually, there's another possible solution (or even simpler): rotate all characters to the left by 90° :-) but only if it's supported by LaTeX. If this is supported, we just need to type in LTR then TTB and after rotation, the text will be TTB then RTL. But I'm not sure if LaTeX supports already double-byte encoding, so I'm not going to ask this question in the newsgroup for the moment. Seak
Re: Internationalization and cvs
Andre' Poenitz wrote: Concerning the multi-byte encoding: We should have a discussion whether it is sensible to use Unicode internally. The world is changing and last years' arguments won't fit anymore. May I know what this "last year's argument" is? I joined this list for less than one month. We could get rid of almost all of the encoding stuff at the price of double sized buffers plus quite a bit of work. But in the end thing would be much simpler It might have other advantages. Eg, lastest versions of Windows use Unicode internally and LyX is ported to windows, using Unicode inside LyX perhaps could help i18n/l10n (if this is possible with Cygnus) work also for windows port more "natively"? That is, windows doesn't have to translate a menu string from a particular encoding to Unicode before displaying it.
Re: Hebrew support for LyX
Shigeru Miyata wrote: > "Seak, Teng-Fong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Chinese (as well as Japanese and Korean) can also be written from right to > > left, even though this isn't very common nowadays. Actually, in tradition, > > Chinese is written from top to the bottom, then from right to left. But I > > don't think Latex is able to support this :-) > > Theoretically speaking it is of course possible. However, dimensions > [deleted] > TTB_RTL (for Chinese, Japanese, etc.) and TTB_LTR (for Mongolian) > primitives. Actually, there's another possible solution (or even simpler): rotate all characters to the left by 90° :-) but only if it's supported by LaTeX. If this is supported, we just need to type in LTR then TTB and after rotation, the text will be TTB then RTL. But I'm not sure if LaTeX supports already double-byte encoding, so I'm not going to ask this question in the newsgroup for the moment. Seak
Re: Internationalization and cvs
Andre' Poenitz wrote: > Concerning the multi-byte encoding: We should have a discussion > whether > it is sensible to use Unicode internally. The world is changing and > last > years' arguments won't fit anymore. May I know what this "last year's argument" is? I joined this list for less than one month. > We could get rid of almost all of the encoding stuff at the price of > double sized buffers plus quite a bit of work. But in the end thing > would be much simpler It might have other advantages. Eg, lastest versions of Windows use Unicode internally and LyX is ported to windows, using Unicode inside LyX perhaps could help i18n/l10n (if this is possible with Cygnus) work also for windows port more "natively"? That is, windows doesn't have to translate a menu string from a particular encoding to Unicode before displaying it.
Re: Hebrew support for LyX
Chinese (as well as Japanese and Korean) can also be written from right to left, even though this isn't very common nowadays. Actually, in tradition, Chinese is written from top to the bottom, then from right to left. But I don't think Latex is able to support this :-)
Re: Internalization
About i18n, I've read the "encoding.lyx" article written by Asger Alstrup Nielsen. (By the way, the file is no longer available at the URL where I got it before. Is it no longer available?) The article is talking about strings and encodings in LyX v1.2. Regarding this article and i18n/l10n, I've got a few questions (mainly concerning Unicode) in my mind: For translations in menus/messages (ie. excluding documentations) which are encoded in multi-byte encoding, eg for Asian languages, isn't it better that these translations should be encoded in Unicode? Actually, newer versions of XFree86 support already natively Unicode, so do a lot of commercial X (if not all). So I suppose characters (eg in menus) are displayed using Unicode. However, people still use Big5 as traditional Chinese encoding. Convesion from Big5 to and from Unicode isn't quite straightforward as from Latin-1 to and from Unicode. If the translation is done in Big5, there will be a lot of unnecessary conversion Big5 - Unicode. That's why I ask if it's better to use Unicode as the underlying encoding. I take Chinese as an example, but the argument can be very well applied to Japanese, Korean and any language encodings other than Latin-1. I see that for the moment there's no translation for Chinese, Japanese or Korean (and other non Latin-1 languages). Thus, maybe it's not too late to apply this. But of course, this would raise a second question: how is one supposed to edit in Unicode? With what editor? I just know yudit but I just managed to make it work partially. And how are .po files saved? In utf-7, utf-8 or UCS-2? Probably not in UCS-2, I think, but I might be wrong. Who knows?
Re: Hebrew support for LyX
Chinese (as well as Japanese and Korean) can also be written from right to left, even though this isn't very common nowadays. Actually, in tradition, Chinese is written from top to the bottom, then from right to left. But I don't think Latex is able to support this :-)
Re: Internalization
About i18n, I've read the "encoding.lyx" article written by Asger Alstrup Nielsen. (By the way, the file is no longer available at the URL where I got it before. Is it no longer available?) The article is talking about strings and encodings in LyX v1.2. Regarding this article and i18n/l10n, I've got a few questions (mainly concerning Unicode) in my mind: For translations in menus/messages (ie. excluding documentations) which are encoded in multi-byte encoding, eg for Asian languages, isn't it better that these translations should be encoded in Unicode? Actually, newer versions of XFree86 support already natively Unicode, so do a lot of commercial X (if not all). So I suppose characters (eg in menus) are displayed using Unicode. However, people still use Big5 as traditional Chinese encoding. Convesion from Big5 to and from Unicode isn't quite straightforward as from Latin-1 to and from Unicode. If the translation is done in Big5, there will be a lot of unnecessary conversion Big5 <-> Unicode. That's why I ask if it's better to use Unicode as the underlying encoding. I take Chinese as an example, but the argument can be very well applied to Japanese, Korean and any language encodings other than Latin-1. I see that for the moment there's no translation for Chinese, Japanese or Korean (and other non Latin-1 languages). Thus, maybe it's not too late to apply this. But of course, this would raise a second question: how is one supposed to edit in Unicode? With what editor? I just know yudit but I just managed to make it work partially. And how are .po files saved? In utf-7, utf-8 or UCS-2? Probably not in UCS-2, I think, but I might be wrong. Who knows?
Re: Special superscript and subscript arrangements
Jules Bean wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, Seak, Teng-Fong wrote:
I don't understand quite your question. Maybe we've got some
misunderstanding :-) Actually, I knew how to enter {}. When I ask Lyx
to support R_{i}{}^{j}{}_{kl}, I wanted in fact LyX not to display the red
{}
to make the tensor look a bit better.
There are two quite orthogonal issues here:
[snipped]
1) Availability of font characters: LyX uses a set of X-windows fonts.
These have in them some approximation to many of the commonly wanted
characters in mathematical notation, but by no means all of them. LyX will
not be able to support the others without new fonts - and possibly a more
extendable font system.
No, no, there's nothing to do with font. Have you tried that expression
that I'd written, by the way? Well, except if you're talking about invisible
font for displaying {} in the mathbox :-)
2) Previewing complex things may not be worth it. TeX is an extremely
complex system, dealing well with a variety of very complex on-page
display issues. It may not be appropriate for LyX to attempt to solve
some of these complex problems independently -- it's only intended to be a
WYSIWYG previewer.
The expression R_{i}{}^{j}{}_{kl} is nothing fancy. It's at the base of
LaTeX. No auxiliary macro is needed, neither is it an extension to the
standard. It's just because this is seldom used so people might have
forgotten it.
Tangentially to that, there's the more general question of exactly which
job LyX is trying to solve. At the moment (at least for complex
mathmematically documents) LyX is best thought of as a helpful tool for
writing LaTeX, but the author needs to know, or at least be willing to
learn as he goes along, LaTeX in order to acheive more complex effects.
LyX is essentially a LaTeX front-end.
I agree with you. I totally understand that LyX is WYSIWYM not WYSIWYG.
I don't mind sub/superscript aren't displayed with a smaller font on the
screen, eg. But at the moment when there's something red on the screen, I'd
like to know what it is, and I'd also wonder if what I see is what I really
mean ;-)
Back to the suggestion: I think if no red {} is displayed, it might also
be difficult to understand what the underlying latex expression is. Maybe a
red (or any other colour) vertical bar could be drawn instead of {} to show
that sub/superscripts aren't rearranged to group together.
Seak
Re: Special superscript and subscript arrangements
Jules Bean wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, Seak, Teng-Fong wrote:
>
> > I don't understand quite your question. Maybe we've got some
> > misunderstanding :-) Actually, I knew how to enter {}. When I ask Lyx
> > to support R_{i}{}^{j}{}_{kl}, I wanted in fact LyX not to display the red
> {}
> > to make the tensor look a bit better.
>
> There are two quite orthogonal issues here:
>
> [snipped]
> 1) Availability of font characters: LyX uses a set of X-windows fonts.
> These have in them some approximation to many of the commonly wanted
> characters in mathematical notation, but by no means all of them. LyX will
> not be able to support the others without new fonts - and possibly a more
> extendable font system.
No, no, there's nothing to do with font. Have you tried that expression
that I'd written, by the way? Well, except if you're talking about invisible
font for displaying {} in the mathbox :-)
> 2) Previewing complex things may not be worth it. TeX is an extremely
> complex system, dealing well with a variety of very complex on-page
> display issues. It may not be appropriate for LyX to attempt to solve
> some of these complex problems independently -- it's only intended to be a
> WYSIWYG previewer.
The expression R_{i}{}^{j}{}_{kl} is nothing fancy. It's at the base of
LaTeX. No auxiliary macro is needed, neither is it an extension to the
standard. It's just because this is seldom used so people might have
forgotten it.
> Tangentially to that, there's the more general question of exactly which
> job LyX is trying to solve. At the moment (at least for complex
> mathmematically documents) LyX is best thought of as a helpful tool for
> writing LaTeX, but the author needs to know, or at least be willing to
> learn as he goes along, LaTeX in order to acheive more complex effects.
> LyX is essentially a LaTeX front-end.
I agree with you. I totally understand that LyX is WYSIWYM not WYSIWYG.
I don't mind sub/superscript aren't displayed with a smaller font on the
screen, eg. But at the moment when there's something red on the screen, I'd
like to know what it is, and I'd also wonder if what I see is what I really
mean ;-)
Back to the suggestion: I think if no red {} is displayed, it might also
be difficult to understand what the underlying latex expression is. Maybe a
red (or any other colour) vertical bar could be drawn instead of {} to show
that sub/superscripts aren't rearranged to group together.
Seak
OT: Re: LaTeX to unicode translation table
Martin Norbäck wrote: However, running ttmkfdir (the one distributed with freetype-1.2) only produces a lot of iso8859-* encodings and koi8 and ascii-0. No iso10646-1 :( Is there som way to persuade ttmkfdir to generate an iso-10646 variation of a specific font? I don't want to load heaps of different encodings to get the glyph I want. What I do is to put only one line with iso10646-1 at the end of it, like this: cyberbit.ttf -bitstream-Bitstream Cyberbit-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso10646-1 With the Fontmanager under KDE 1.1.2 (in Mandrake 6.1), this seems to work, at least rescaling works perfectly. Be careful, it takes a very long time for the font server to render this monster font file for every font size. But this program just display a few english words. So it's not possible to know if non-Ascii characters will work too. I lack a software which needs or uses Unicode specifically. Netscape 4.6 supports Unicode, but it seems to ignore this font. So I tried to change iso10646-1 to unicode2-0 and unicode-2-0. However, none of them works. Seak
Re: Annoying dump to the xterm
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: These are debug messages that have been forgotten. You can either: - run LyX like lyx 2/dev/null so that messages are not shown - suppress the lines which output them in trans.C and recompile (they are easy to find) - live with it until 1.1.4 :) JMarc It seems there're several tiny bugs in 1.1.3. If there's no intenion to push out 1.1.4, is there any plan to provide an intermediate one, say 1.1.3.1, once these tiny bugs are corrected?
Re: Font and misc points [was Re: Feedback]
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: In the document popup, you have something called 'Extra Options'. You can put explicit options there, like 'fleqn'. Of course, this option should be accessible from the popup, but somehow it got forgotten. Oh I see. Thank you. But I think I would stick back to \displaystyle :-) because once this option is used, there's no more centred display mode. If you add to your lyxrc \bind "M-m M-d" "math-insert displaystyle" then the key sequence M-m M-d will do what you want. However, displaystyle will be displayed in red (but invisible after you save and reload the file %-|). Thanks. That's not a problem that they're displayed in red. To the contrary, I'd like them to stay there forever :) because it's the only way to show this particular hidden information in current version. I agree that the handling of displaystyle is a bit strange currently. I just created the file, ~/.lyx/lyxrc which contains only this line for \displaystyle. On the other hand, I've previously got a /usr/share/lyx/lyxrc file as system-wide config. As soon as I run LyX, I notice that contents of /usr/share/lyx/lyxrc are ignored because other configurations are lost. But isn't it better that first of all LyX loads from /usr/share/lyx/lyxrc system-wide config, and then from ~/.lyx/lyxrc user's particular config? Otherwise, how do we setup system-wide config? Using this mechanism, of course, every user is supposed to put only necessary config lines in his file but not the whole file copied from /usr/share/lyx/lyxrc. An ideal solution is that everything inside lyxrc is configurable through LyX's interface. In this way, LyX could determine what should be written to ~/.lyx/lyxrc.
Re: Official RPM package and icon file [was Re: Feedback]
Allan Rae wrote: On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Seak, Teng-Fong wrote: "Kayvan A. Sylvan" wrote: Seak, Teng-Fong wrote: While we're here, allow me to suggest that LyX icon file be installed too. In rpm packages, which are destinated for Linux, icon file can be put in /usr/share/icons which is the system-wide icon directory for KDE. I seldom use Gnome but I think its icon directory is /usr/share/pixmaps These are already installed in /usr/share/lyx/images I know that it's installed there, but that's different from having them installed directly in those locations. Or maybe it should be written somewhere that the icon file can be found in /usr/share/lyx/images. Suppose you're a new LyX user (or system administrator). You have just installed LyX. Then you want to create short-cut for LyX (especially necessary for an administrator than a single user). If the icon file isn't installed in standard place .^^ The trouble is there is no standard place except perhaps embedded in the executable or stored in the applications directory tree. As you've already said KDE, CDE and Gnome all put icons in different places. The Linux Standard Base project is still argueing about where icons should be put -- and that'd only solve things for Linux where would we put icons on Solaris, Digital Unix, Windows etc.? Well, you cut my sentence at the middle.. that's why you understood it differently. By "standard", I never meant "universal". "standard" is relative to a particular WM or Environment (that I wrote later in that message). When it's CDE, I think the location is the same across platforms (that's why I asked somebody else to confirm it, but nobody did). For Solaris (Open window), the location is also fixed. For windows, I don't know, but IMO the best place to put the icon is the directory where the executable is found. If a system admin wants to install LyX from an rpm they can always use: rpm -ql lyx once they've installed to see where everything went. Or if they are compiling from source the icon is equally easy to find. Sure, an admin can _always_ do that, provided he _knows_ how to do that. "rpm -ql something" is a very simple command, but how can one know what options to use is another story. We have to admit that manpage is not easy to read, esp for new users. Since we're talking about rpm, the context is in Linux. In Linux, a system admin is also the user. So an admin can very well be an inexperienced admin. So we shouldn't expect every admin in Linux is an expert. A question is always asked in Linux community: how much is a new user (or novice admin) is supposed to know? There's no exact answer to this question, but one thing is sure, there're users who like to know every details, but there're also users who just like to start using right away without having to know too much hacking. Maybe at least we've to write somewhere in some file like Readme where one can find the icon file. Anyway, if you still think there's no need to do so, forget about it. Seak
OT: Re: LaTeX to unicode translation table
Martin Norbäck wrote: > However, running ttmkfdir (the one distributed with freetype-1.2) only > produces a lot of iso8859-* encodings and koi8 and ascii-0. No > iso10646-1 :( > > Is there som way to persuade ttmkfdir to generate an iso-10646 variation > of a specific font? I don't want to load heaps of different encodings to > get the glyph I want. What I do is to put only one line with iso10646-1 at the end of it, like this: cyberbit.ttf -bitstream-Bitstream Cyberbit-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso10646-1 With the Fontmanager under KDE 1.1.2 (in Mandrake 6.1), this seems to work, at least rescaling works perfectly. Be careful, it takes a very long time for the font server to render this monster font file for every font size. But this program just display a few english words. So it's not possible to know if non-Ascii characters will work too. I lack a software which needs or uses Unicode specifically. Netscape 4.6 supports Unicode, but it seems to ignore this font. So I tried to change iso10646-1 to unicode2-0 and unicode-2-0. However, none of them works. Seak
Re: Annoying dump to the xterm
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > These are debug messages that have been forgotten. You can either: > > - run LyX like lyx 2>/dev/null so that messages are not shown > > - suppress the lines which output them in trans.C and recompile (they > are easy to find) > > - live with it until 1.1.4 :) > > JMarc It seems there're several tiny bugs in 1.1.3. If there's no intenion to push out 1.1.4, is there any plan to provide an intermediate one, say 1.1.3.1, once these tiny bugs are corrected?
Re: Font and misc points [was Re: Feedback]
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > In the document popup, you have something called 'Extra Options'. You > can put explicit options there, like 'fleqn'. Of course, this option > should be accessible from the popup, but somehow it got forgotten. Oh I see. Thank you. But I think I would stick back to \displaystyle :-) because once this option is used, there's no more centred display mode. > If you add to your lyxrc > \bind "M-m M-d" "math-insert displaystyle" > then the key sequence M-m M-d will do what you want. However, > displaystyle will be displayed in red (but invisible after you save > and reload the file %-|). Thanks. That's not a problem that they're displayed in red. To the contrary, I'd like them to stay there forever :) because it's the only way to show this particular hidden information in current version. > I agree that the handling of displaystyle is a bit strange currently. I just created the file, ~/.lyx/lyxrc which contains only this line for \displaystyle. On the other hand, I've previously got a /usr/share/lyx/lyxrc file as system-wide config. As soon as I run LyX, I notice that contents of /usr/share/lyx/lyxrc are ignored because other configurations are lost. But isn't it better that first of all LyX loads from /usr/share/lyx/lyxrc system-wide config, and then from ~/.lyx/lyxrc user's particular config? Otherwise, how do we setup system-wide config? Using this mechanism, of course, every user is supposed to put only necessary config lines in his file but not the whole file copied from /usr/share/lyx/lyxrc. An ideal solution is that everything inside lyxrc is configurable through LyX's interface. In this way, LyX could determine what should be written to ~/.lyx/lyxrc.
Re: Official RPM package and icon file [was Re: Feedback]
Allan Rae wrote: > On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Seak, Teng-Fong wrote: > > > "Kayvan A. Sylvan" wrote: > > > Seak, Teng-Fong wrote: > > > > While we're here, allow me to suggest that LyX icon file be > > > > installed too. In rpm packages, which are destinated for Linux, icon > > > > file can be put in /usr/share/icons which is the system-wide icon > > > > directory for KDE. I seldom use Gnome but I think its icon directory is > > > > /usr/share/pixmaps > > > > > > These are already installed in /usr/share/lyx/images > > > > I know that it's installed there, but that's different from having them > > installed directly in those locations. Or maybe it should be written somewhere > > that the icon file can be found in /usr/share/lyx/images. Suppose you're a new LyX > > user (or system administrator). You have just installed LyX. Then you want to > > create short-cut for LyX (especially necessary for an administrator than a single > > user). If the icon file isn't installed in standard place > .^^ > > The trouble is there is no standard place except perhaps embedded in the > executable or stored in the applications directory tree. > > As you've already said KDE, CDE and Gnome all put icons in different > places. The Linux Standard Base project is still argueing about where > icons should be put -- and that'd only solve things for Linux where would > we put icons on Solaris, Digital Unix, Windows etc.? Well, you cut my sentence at the middle.. that's why you understood it differently. By "standard", I never meant "universal". "standard" is relative to a particular WM or Environment (that I wrote later in that message). When it's CDE, I think the location is the same across platforms (that's why I asked somebody else to confirm it, but nobody did). For Solaris (Open window), the location is also fixed. For windows, I don't know, but IMO the best place to put the icon is the directory where the executable is found. > If a system admin wants to install LyX from an rpm they can always use: > rpm -ql lyx > once they've installed to see where everything went. Or if they are > compiling from source the icon is equally easy to find. Sure, an admin can _always_ do that, provided he _knows_ how to do that. "rpm -ql something" is a very simple command, but how can one know what options to use is another story. We have to admit that manpage is not easy to read, esp for new users. Since we're talking about rpm, the context is in Linux. In Linux, a system admin is also the user. So an admin can very well be an inexperienced admin. So we shouldn't expect every admin in Linux is an expert. A question is always asked in Linux community: how much is a new user (or novice admin) is supposed to know? There's no exact answer to this question, but one thing is sure, there're users who like to know every details, but there're also users who just like to start using right away without having to know too much hacking. Maybe at least we've to write somewhere in some file like Readme where one can find the icon file. Anyway, if you still think there's no need to do so, forget about it. Seak
Font and misc points [was Re: Feedback]
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
First, note that the class option 'fleqn' (just add that to the
extra options field of Layout-Document).
I can't find this 'fleqn' option in "Document" window. Do you mean
I've to add it to .lyxrc file? Or is it available only in newer
version? I'm still using 1.0.4.
As for having equations
presented differently depending on whether they are intermediate or
not, I have never seen that done, but it is interesting... The
important thing here is that you should use displayed equations
because these are equations alone on a line. _Later_, you can worry
about how they look :) Inline math is designed to be inline, so it is
inherently smaller.
Seak o And for the books: Indeed, complicated expressions are always
[snipped]
Seak Turbulence in Fluids 2nd edition; Lesieur; Kluwer (1990), on top
Seak of page 25.
So, if it is 'in some situations', using \displaystyle is acceptable.
Ok, I understand your point that inline math should use smaller
font. That's ok. But I'm still a bit annoyed because these "situations"
are very frequent in my notes/papers. Is it possible to define a
keyboard cut-short or an icon to replace typing "\displaystyle ".
You know, it becomes very tiresome to type all these "\displaystyle "
for almost every line.
By the way, once this "\displaystyle " is typed in math mode, it
becomes a kind of "hidden information", that means we can't see what else
is defined in such math editor mode without viewing dvi or postscript to
realise it. See what I mean? It would be nice if we could see these
"hidden infos" somewhere. My first idea is to put them in the status bar
together with "Math editor mode" when we click in the "mathbox".
Seak An another example can be an expression under radical like
[snipped]
Seak could send you the exported PS (or DVI) file later if you need.
I do not see this effect... Can you send a PS file?
Sorry, forget about it. The problem is only related to screen.
Actually, I view the output on the screen (cause I don't put a printer)
and at low zoom scale, this problem appears. But at higher zoom, it
isn't there.
Seak By the way, fractions inside a matrix can't be changed to
Seak use normal size (cf attached test.lyx). Whether in display mode
Seak or not. This time I'm very sure that normal size should be used
Seak for fractions inside matrix. Or did I do something wrong? Or I
Seak miss something? Please tell me.
The problem is with LaTeX array environment (used for matrices). It
typesets its contents in inline style, which is maybe correct for a
matrix, but not for what you want to do. The package amsmath has
several clever types of arrays that would probably help a lot, but
unfortunately it is not supported yet in mathed (although preliminary
work has been made).
Not being a Latex/Lyx expert, I don't see what you mean. I've tried
those AMS related document class: nothing work. I've also tried to put
\usepackage{amsmath} in latex preamble: doesn't work either. Hope this
will be supported in newer version of lyx.
Seak
Font and misc points [was Re: Feedback]
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> First, note that the class option 'fleqn' (just add that to the
> extra options field of Layout->Document).
I can't find this 'fleqn' option in "Document" window. Do you mean
I've to add it to .lyxrc file? Or is it available only in newer
version? I'm still using 1.0.4.
> As for having equations
> presented differently depending on whether they are intermediate or
> not, I have never seen that done, but it is interesting... The
> important thing here is that you should use displayed equations
> because these are equations alone on a line. _Later_, you can worry
> about how they look :) Inline math is designed to be inline, so it is
> inherently smaller.
>
> Seak> o And for the books: Indeed, complicated expressions are always
> [snipped]
> Seak> Turbulence in Fluids 2nd edition; Lesieur; Kluwer (1990), on top
> Seak> of page 25.
>
> So, if it is 'in some situations', using \displaystyle is acceptable.
Ok, I understand your point that inline math should use smaller
font. That's ok. But I'm still a bit annoyed because these "situations"
are very frequent in my notes/papers. Is it possible to define a
keyboard cut-short or an icon to replace typing "\displaystyle ".
You know, it becomes very tiresome to type all these "\displaystyle "
for almost every line.
By the way, once this "\displaystyle " is typed in math mode, it
becomes a kind of "hidden information", that means we can't see what else
is defined in such math editor mode without viewing dvi or postscript to
realise it. See what I mean? It would be nice if we could see these
"hidden infos" somewhere. My first idea is to put them in the status bar
together with "Math editor mode" when we click in the "mathbox".
> Seak> An another example can be an expression under radical like
> [snipped]
> Seak> could send you the exported PS (or DVI) file later if you need.
>
> I do not see this effect... Can you send a PS file?
Sorry, forget about it. The problem is only related to screen.
Actually, I view the output on the screen (cause I don't put a printer)
and at low zoom scale, this problem appears. But at higher zoom, it
isn't there.
> Seak> By the way, fractions inside a matrix can't be changed to
> Seak> use normal size (cf attached test.lyx). Whether in display mode
> Seak> or not. This time I'm very sure that normal size should be used
> Seak> for fractions inside matrix. Or did I do something wrong? Or I
> Seak> miss something? Please tell me.
>
> The problem is with LaTeX array environment (used for matrices). It
> typesets its contents in inline style, which is maybe correct for a
> matrix, but not for what you want to do. The package amsmath has
> several clever types of arrays that would probably help a lot, but
> unfortunately it is not supported yet in mathed (although preliminary
> work has been made).
Not being a Latex/Lyx expert, I don't see what you mean. I've tried
those AMS related document class: nothing work. I've also tried to put
\usepackage{amsmath} in latex preamble: doesn't work either. Hope this
will be supported in newer version of lyx.
Seak
Mirror site in Italy isn't up to date
I just found that the mirror site in Italy isn't up to date at all. Haven't tried the others yet. How are mirror sites setup? Manually or using a programme (robot) doing automatic mirror (once a day or once a week)?
Mirror site in Italy isn't up to date
I just found that the mirror site in Italy isn't up to date at all. Haven't tried the others yet. How are mirror sites setup? Manually or using a programme (robot) doing automatic mirror (once a day or once a week)?
Re: Additional symbols
Jules Bean wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Seak, Teng-Fong wrote:
1) Double vertical stroke set symbols for Z, N, R, Q, C
Indeed. We have no font for them. I use this in my preamble:
\newcommand{\R}{\mathbb{R}}
OK, thanks. By the way, I find that either I've to use AMS as document
type, or add "\usepackage{amsfonts}" in preamble for \mathbb to work. I'm
still using version 1.0.4, maybe in latest version I don't have to do this?
Then type \R when I want it. This comes out as a red R, which is close
enough for me :-)
Actually, the R displayed is a "hollow R" but not the R used to
represent the set of all real numbers. But it's better than nothing :)
IMO, the long-term direction for LyX needs to be to use some more capable
fonts than the X ones it currently uses. Possibly this means building
one of the truetype font libraries into LyX
This is of course an ideal solution, but I'm afraid this would demand
too much effort from developpers. They're programmers, not designers :(
(this would make the on-screen
display significantly more pleasing to the eye, and would allow
anti-aliasing as an option), and using a good unicode font (if such even
exists?).
OT: there's a TrueType Cyberstream Unicode font file, free of charge,
available. If you're using Linux with a TT font server, you could use this
font. However, this font was provided years ago, so maybe something are
missing. "Euro" is certainly missing. But personally, I prefer Microsoft's
approach in Unicode. MS provides separated fonts for every language family
and all of them constitute Unicode, instead of a single font file containing
everything. The reason is that while Times Roman or Helvetica/Arial style is
meaningful for Latin letters (or even Greek and Cyrillic), they are almost
meaningless for other language families. It's thus quite silly to provide a
"Times Roman Unicode" font file.
2) Identity symbol, usually represented as the number 1 with double
vertical stroke (just like those set symbols)
Hmm. That's not in the standard blackboard font. You'd need to try a
general latex forum for that, I'm afraid. Personally, I find a standard
'1' serves well for the identity in many contexts.
Yup, except for matrix, for example :-)
3) Symbols for "therefore" and "since", ie one dot on top and two dots
in the bottom for "therefore", two dots on top and one dot in the bottom
for "since".
.
. . for "therefore"
. .
. for "since"
Hmm. The symbosl should be \because and \since. I can't get them to
work, although I have AMS math enabled. Odd.
Are you sure it's "because" but not "therefore"? They're very
different. Please note that I'm talking about the meaning, not the exact
latex syntax because I don't know.
4) Double and triple circulation integrals. They are like the single
circulation integral, ie the integral symbol with a small circle in the
middle, but with two and three integrals symbols respectively.
You can always use the underlying LaTeX notation.
I learnt latex from written notes that my professor gave me, and
sometimes from Internet if I find any. I don't have any reference book. So
please tell me what they are.
Re: [seak.teng-fong@iname.com] Feedback from www.lyx.org
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: "Seak" == Seak, Teng-Fong [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Seak By curiosity, I've just tested my tetex distribution for Seak Linux with non-Ascii filename. Fortunately, tetex allows these Seak characters in filename. How about the other latex distribution Seak on other platforms? My tetex is 1.0.6 and Linux is Mandrake 6.1. There are also problems with active characters like $%^, I think. And spaces too. Yup, when the filename contains space, latex (from tetex distribution) couldn't find the file.
Re: Additional symbols
Jules Bean wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Seak, Teng-Fong wrote:
>
> > 1) Double vertical stroke set symbols for Z, N, R, Q, C
>
> Indeed. We have no font for them. I use this in my preamble:
>
> \newcommand{\R}{\mathbb{R}}
OK, thanks. By the way, I find that either I've to use AMS as document
type, or add "\usepackage{amsfonts}" in preamble for \mathbb to work. I'm
still using version 1.0.4, maybe in latest version I don't have to do this?
> Then type \R when I want it. This comes out as a red R, which is close
> enough for me :-)
Actually, the R displayed is a "hollow R" but not the R used to
represent the set of all real numbers. But it's better than nothing :)
> IMO, the long-term direction for LyX needs to be to use some more capable
> fonts than the X ones it currently uses. Possibly this means building
> one of the truetype font libraries into LyX
This is of course an ideal solution, but I'm afraid this would demand
too much effort from developpers. They're programmers, not designers :(
> (this would make the on-screen
> display significantly more pleasing to the eye, and would allow
> anti-aliasing as an option), and using a good unicode font (if such even
> exists?).
OT: there's a TrueType Cyberstream Unicode font file, free of charge,
available. If you're using Linux with a TT font server, you could use this
font. However, this font was provided years ago, so maybe something are
missing. "Euro" is certainly missing. But personally, I prefer Microsoft's
approach in Unicode. MS provides separated fonts for every language family
and all of them constitute Unicode, instead of a single font file containing
everything. The reason is that while Times Roman or Helvetica/Arial style is
meaningful for Latin letters (or even Greek and Cyrillic), they are almost
meaningless for other language families. It's thus quite silly to provide a
"Times Roman Unicode" font file.
> > 2) Identity symbol, usually represented as the number 1 with double
> > vertical stroke (just like those set symbols)
>
> Hmm. That's not in the standard blackboard font. You'd need to try a
> general latex forum for that, I'm afraid. Personally, I find a standard
> '1' serves well for the identity in many contexts.
Yup, except for matrix, for example :-)
> > 3) Symbols for "therefore" and "since", ie one dot on top and two dots
> > in the bottom for "therefore", two dots on top and one dot in the bottom
> > for "since".
> > .
> > . . for "therefore"
> >
> > . .
> > . for "since"
>
> Hmm. The symbosl should be \because and \since. I can't get them to
> work, although I have AMS math enabled. Odd.
Are you sure it's "because" but not "therefore"? They're very
different. Please note that I'm talking about the meaning, not the exact
latex syntax because I don't know.
> > 4) Double and triple circulation integrals. They are like the single
> > circulation integral, ie the integral symbol with a small circle in the
> > middle, but with two and three integrals symbols respectively.
>
> You can always use the underlying LaTeX notation.
I learnt latex from written notes that my professor gave me, and
sometimes from Internet if I find any. I don't have any reference book. So
please tell me what they are.
Re: [seak.teng-fong@iname.com] Feedback from www.lyx.org
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > >>>>> "Seak" == Seak, Teng-Fong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Seak> By curiosity, I've just tested my tetex distribution for > Seak> Linux with non-Ascii filename. Fortunately, tetex allows these > Seak> characters in filename. How about the other latex distribution > Seak> on other platforms? My tetex is 1.0.6 and Linux is Mandrake 6.1. > > There are also problems with active characters like $&%^, I think. And > spaces too. Yup, when the filename contains space, latex (from tetex distribution) couldn't find the file.
Re: Official RPM package and icon file [was Re: Feedback]
"Kayvan A. Sylvan" wrote: On Wed, Dec 01, 1999 at 07:54:16AM +0100, Seak, Teng-Fong wrote: When will the official RPM package for 1.1.2 be available? Or even 1.1.3 if it will be out very soon. While making this package, is it also possible to make another one optimized for i586? At present, the 1.0.4 package's name has i386 inside it, meaning that it's for general purpose. I've just received the messages concerning the release of 1.1.3. Strange that some of the messages come quite late to me. I maintain the latest RPMs for lyx. These RPMS are build for Redhat 6.X on a i586 machine. Other architectures and OS combinations are contributed by other users and get put into my ftp area. Oh I see. In this case, could you put i586 instead of i386 in the name, please? While we're here, allow me to suggest that LyX icon file be installed too. In rpm packages, which are destinated for Linux, icon file can be put in /usr/share/icons which is the system-wide icon directory for KDE. I seldom use Gnome but I think its icon directory is /usr/share/pixmaps These are already installed in /usr/share/lyx/images I know that it's installed there, but that's different from having them installed directly in those locations. Or maybe it should be written somewhere that the icon file can be found in /usr/share/lyx/images. Suppose you're a new LyX user (or system administrator). You have just installed LyX. Then you want to create short-cut for LyX (especially necessary for an administrator than a single user). If the icon file isn't installed in standard place, two possibilities could happen: 1) you use a generic icon for LyX instead of the nice official icon. Well, a generic icon could also mean a very ugly one. I'm sure a developper of a programme wouldn't want this to happen. 2) you search everywhere for the icon. This is tedious especially if the location wasn't clear at first. Anyway, this could simplify a lot users' life. Why not do so? Seak
Re: Official RPM package and icon file [was Re: Feedback]
Oh I see. In this case, could you put i586 instead of i386 in the name, please? Why should one put 'i586' into the name of a package that is supposed to work on the i386 architecture? Oh I see. Actually, when I asked that an i586 optimized rpm package be made, you answered that "These RPMS are build for Redhat 6.X on a i586 machine" (sic), so I thought you implied that it's already optimized for i586 and that's why I thought it's better to call it so.
Re: Official RPM package and icon file [was Re: Feedback]
"Kayvan A. Sylvan" wrote: > On Wed, Dec 01, 1999 at 07:54:16AM +0100, Seak, Teng-Fong wrote: > > > > When will the official RPM package for 1.1.2 be available? Or even > > 1.1.3 if it will be out very soon. While making this package, is it also > > possible to make another one optimized for i586? At present, the 1.0.4 > > package's name has i386 inside it, meaning that it's for general purpose. I've just received the messages concerning the release of 1.1.3. Strange that some of the messages come quite late to me. > I maintain the latest RPMs for lyx. These RPMS are build for Redhat 6.X on a i586 > machine. Other architectures and OS combinations are contributed by other users > and get put into my ftp area. Oh I see. In this case, could you put i586 instead of i386 in the name, please? > > While we're here, allow me to suggest that LyX icon file be > > installed too. In rpm packages, which are destinated for Linux, icon > > file can be put in /usr/share/icons which is the system-wide icon > > directory for KDE. I seldom use Gnome but I think its icon directory is > > /usr/share/pixmaps > > These are already installed in /usr/share/lyx/images I know that it's installed there, but that's different from having them installed directly in those locations. Or maybe it should be written somewhere that the icon file can be found in /usr/share/lyx/images. Suppose you're a new LyX user (or system administrator). You have just installed LyX. Then you want to create short-cut for LyX (especially necessary for an administrator than a single user). If the icon file isn't installed in standard place, two possibilities could happen: 1) you use a generic icon for LyX instead of the nice official icon. Well, a generic icon could also mean a very ugly one. I'm sure a developper of a programme wouldn't want this to happen. 2) you search everywhere for the icon. This is tedious especially if the location wasn't clear at first. Anyway, this could simplify a lot users' life. Why not do so? Seak
Re: Official RPM package and icon file [was Re: Feedback]
> > Oh I see. In this case, could you put i586 instead of i386 in the name, > > please? > > Why should one put 'i586' into the name of a package that is supposed to > work on the i386 architecture? Oh I see. Actually, when I asked that an i586 optimized rpm package be made, you answered that "These RPMS are build for Redhat 6.X on a i586 machine" (sic), so I thought you implied that it's already optimized for i586 and that's why I thought it's better to call it so.
Re: Special superscript and subscript arrangements
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
Seak, I just checked that actually \tensor isn't included in
Seak, standard macros in tetex. But if LyX could support things like
Seak, R_i{}^j{}_{kl} it's alright good enough.
What about the following? I entered the {} by typing \ {
JMarc
#This file was created by lasgoutt Tue Nov 30 14:46:10 1999
[deleted]
\begin_inset Formula \( R_{i}{}^{j}{}_{kl} \)
\end_inset
I don't understand quite your question. Maybe we've got some
misunderstanding :-) Actually, I knew how to enter {}. When I ask Lyx
to support R_i{}^j{}_{kl}, I wanted in fact LyX not to display the red {}
to make the tensor look a bit better.
By the way, LyX always put and expect {} after ^ or _ even when it's
not necessary. Would this cause problem when someone wants to import
pieces of latex code containing something like R_i instead of R_{i}?
Re: Special superscript and subscript arrangements
Seak I don't understand quite your question. Maybe we've got
Seak some misunderstanding :-) Actually, I knew how to enter {}. When
Seak I ask Lyx to support R_i{}^j{}_{kl}, I wanted in fact LyX not to
Seak display the red {} to make the tensor look a bit better.
I do not know how to do that...
Of course, I mean in future version of LyX, not the present one :-)
It's for the wish-list and I'm very patient to wait for this to happen.
Re: Special superscript and subscript arrangements
The best would be of course to give a hand to Alejandro so that this actually happens :) Oh sorry, I'm more a scientist (and an end-user) than a computer scientist. I know how to programme in Fortran, Pascal and Matlab. But in C (or C++), I'm a real novice. If it was written in Fortran, I could help :-)
Official RPM package and icon file [was Re: Feedback]
Currently, the situation is that the 1.1.x versions are almost as stable as 1.0.x, the `almost' coming from the fact that many things are being rewritten and thus some problems occur. There are however few new features in 1.1.x for now. When will the official RPM package for 1.1.2 be available? Or even 1.1.3 if it will be out very soon. While making this package, is it also possible to make another one optimized for i586? At present, the 1.0.4 package's name has i386 inside it, meaning that it's for general purpose. While we're here, allow me to suggest that LyX icon file be installed too. In rpm packages, which are destinated for Linux, icon file can be put in /usr/share/icons which is the system-wide icon directory for KDE. I seldom use Gnome but I think its icon directory is /usr/share/pixmaps For tar.gz package (ie, for all Unix), during configuration, maybe users could be asked if they want to install icon file for such WM or such environment. I think for CDE, the directory is /usr/dt/icons. Could someone else confirm this? Please tell us what you know about this for the other WM and environment. Seak
Re: Special superscript and subscript arrangements
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> Seak,> I just checked that actually \tensor isn't included in
> Seak,> standard macros in tetex. But if LyX could support things like
> Seak,> R_i{}^j{}_{kl} it's alright good enough.
>
> What about the following? I entered the {} by typing \ {
>
> JMarc
>
> #This file was created by Tue Nov 30 14:46:10 1999
> [deleted]
> \begin_inset Formula \( R_{i}{}^{j}{}_{kl} \)
> \end_inset
I don't understand quite your question. Maybe we've got some
misunderstanding :-) Actually, I knew how to enter {}. When I ask Lyx
to support R_i{}^j{}_{kl}, I wanted in fact LyX not to display the red {}
to make the tensor look a bit better.
By the way, LyX always put and expect {} after ^ or _ even when it's
not necessary. Would this cause problem when someone wants to import
pieces of latex code containing something like R_i instead of R_{i}?
Re: Special superscript and subscript arrangements
> Seak> I don't understand quite your question. Maybe we've got
> Seak> some misunderstanding :-) Actually, I knew how to enter {}. When
> Seak> I ask Lyx to support R_i{}^j{}_{kl}, I wanted in fact LyX not to
> Seak> display the red {} to make the tensor look a bit better.
>
> I do not know how to do that...
Of course, I mean in future version of LyX, not the present one :-)
It's for the wish-list and I'm very patient to wait for this to happen.
Re: Special superscript and subscript arrangements
> The best would be of course to give a hand to Alejandro so that this > actually happens :) Oh sorry, I'm more a scientist (and an end-user) than a computer scientist. I know how to programme in Fortran, Pascal and Matlab. But in C (or C++), I'm a real novice. If it was written in Fortran, I could help :-)
Official RPM package and icon file [was Re: Feedback]
> Currently, the situation is that the 1.1.x versions are almost as > stable as 1.0.x, the `almost' coming from the fact that many things > are being rewritten and thus some problems occur. There are however > few new features in 1.1.x for now. When will the official RPM package for 1.1.2 be available? Or even 1.1.3 if it will be out very soon. While making this package, is it also possible to make another one optimized for i586? At present, the 1.0.4 package's name has i386 inside it, meaning that it's for general purpose. While we're here, allow me to suggest that LyX icon file be installed too. In rpm packages, which are destinated for Linux, icon file can be put in /usr/share/icons which is the system-wide icon directory for KDE. I seldom use Gnome but I think its icon directory is /usr/share/pixmaps For tar.gz package (ie, for all Unix), during configuration, maybe users could be asked if they want to install icon file for such WM or such environment. I think for CDE, the directory is /usr/dt/icons. Could someone else confirm this? Please tell us what you know about this for the other WM and environment. Seak
Re: Additional symbols
Oh, I forgot this one: 5) A square. Yes, a square and it's that simple :-) Actually, this is the space-time differentiation symbol, like the Nabla (inverted Delta) which is a space diff symbol but taken into account time derivative
Accents in Mathematics Mode
I've just checked that LaTeX supports the following "accents" for
mathematics.
\underline
\overline
\hat
\check
\tilde
\acute
\grave
\dot
\ddot
\breve
\bar
\vec
I think some are already implemented as math panel buttons, like
\acute , right? Some are _recognised_ by LyX but I still can't figure
out how to insert it directly in LyX, eg, \ddot{h}. I just know to open
the file with a text editor and add this manual and then reopen the file
in LyX.
Could you implement these accents, please?
Regards,
Seak T.F.
Re: Accents in Mathematics Mode
Horst G Kausch wrote:
I think some are already implemented as math panel buttons, like
\acute , right? Some are _recognised_ by LyX but I still can't figure
out how to insert it directly in LyX, eg, \ddot{h}. I just know to open
the file with a text editor and add this manual and then reopen the file
in LyX.
You can enter them already without leaving lyx. To enter \ddot{h} just type:
\ddotspaceh
I find this is a lot faster than going through the math panel any way.
Oh great, thanks a lot :-) I used the wrong procedure while trying to
insert this: I click on the (a+b)/c "math mode" button, then the red "TeX"
button and tried to insert this sequence of characters in all imaginable way I
could (with ou without backslash, with ou without curly braces, etc) :-(
Re: [seak.teng-fong@iname.com] Feedback from www.lyx.org
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: This is a known problem with 1.0.4. Note that latex does not accept file names with accents, so we have to change the name anyway. LyX 1.1.2 is supposed to do things `almost' correctly. Ok, thanks. Maybe a FAQ section should be setup in the homepage? I've searched through almost the whole site and the whole "known bug" on-line documentation, but I haven't found anything related to this bug. So I don't know if it's a known bug. By the way, I've compiled 1.1.2 in OSF/1 and this bug doesn't appear there. PS: please send feedback directly to the lyx-devel mailing list. It is forwarded here anyway... I've sent this few days ago, but since I've so many bugs/questions/requests to send, I finally made up my mind this morning to subscribe to this mailing-list in order to send directly my mails here. Sorry for the troubles.
Special superscript and subscript arrangements
oWhen we want to write tensors in Einstein's notation, we could
write it in latex in this way, R_i{}^j{}_{kl} so that subscripts and
superscripts won't be rearranged together. This time, I found out how
to insert the {} (by the red TeX button) :-) but LyX couldn't process it
correctly. Maybe the same problem as \dj{} mentioned in "Known Bugs"?
By the way, there is macro to do the same thing. For the same
tensor, it's written in this way: \tensor{R}{_i^j_{kl}}
Maybe LyX can be programmed to handle this too?
o Superscripts and subscripts are usual put on the right of variable.
But in atomic notations, eg, they are put to the left. There's no
problem to insert them (just type them). The following lyx example
illustrates this:
\begin_inset Formula \( ^{235}_{92}U+^{1}_{0}n\rightarrow
^{236}_{92}U\rightarrow \ldots \)
\end_inset
However, I wonder if LaTeX (or LyX) allows us to right-adjust those
numbers. For the moment, they're left-adjusted by defaults. Therefore,
I should add in predefined spaces provided by the math-panel. But as
you could imagine, the result is only _approximatively_ right adjusted.
Regards
Seak T.F.
Re: Special superscript and subscript arrangements
"Seak, Teng-Fong" wrote:
oWhen we want to write tensors in Einstein's notation, we could
write it in latex in this way, R_i{}^j{}_{kl} so that subscripts and
superscripts won't be rearranged together. This time, I found out how
to insert the {} (by the red TeX button) :-) but LyX couldn't process it
correctly. Maybe the same problem as \dj{} mentioned in "Known Bugs"?
By the way, there is macro to do the same thing. For the same
tensor, it's written in this way: \tensor{R}{_i^j_{kl}}
Maybe LyX can be programmed to handle this too?
I just checked that actually \tensor isn't included in standard macros
in tetex. But if LyX could support things like R_i{}^j{}_{kl} it's alright
good enough.
Seak
Re: [seak.teng-fong@iname.com] Feedback from www.lyx.org
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Seak I have installed the official RPM package of 1.0.4 that I Seak downloaded from one of the mirror ftp sites. My Linux Seak distribution is Mandrake 6.1 (kernel 2.2.13 and glibc 2.1). I Seak found that when the filename of a lyx file doesn\'t consiste of Seak only ASCII characters, the file is exported with a wrong name. This is a known problem with 1.0.4. Note that latex does not accept file names with accents, so we have to change the name anyway. LyX 1.1.2 is supposed to do things `almost' correctly. By curiosity, I've just tested my tetex distribution for Linux with non-Ascii filename. Fortunately, tetex allows these characters in filename. How about the other latex distribution on other platforms? My tetex is 1.0.6 and Linux is Mandrake 6.1. Hope this could help. Seak
Re: Additional symbols
Oh, I forgot this one: 5) A square. Yes, a square and it's that simple :-) Actually, this is the space-time differentiation symbol, like the Nabla (inverted Delta) which is a space diff symbol but taken into account time derivative
Accents in Mathematics Mode
I've just checked that LaTeX supports the following "accents" for
mathematics.
\underline
\overline
\hat
\check
\tilde
\acute
\grave
\dot
\ddot
\breve
\bar
\vec
I think some are already implemented as math panel buttons, like
\acute , right? Some are _recognised_ by LyX but I still can't figure
out how to insert it directly in LyX, eg, \ddot{h}. I just know to open
the file with a text editor and add this manual and then reopen the file
in LyX.
Could you implement these accents, please?
Regards,
Seak T.F.
Re: Accents in Mathematics Mode
Horst G Kausch wrote:
> > I think some are already implemented as math panel buttons, like
> > \acute , right? Some are _recognised_ by LyX but I still can't figure
> > out how to insert it directly in LyX, eg, \ddot{h}. I just know to open
> > the file with a text editor and add this manual and then reopen the file
> > in LyX.
>
> You can enter them already without leaving lyx. To enter \ddot{h} just type:
> \ddoth
>
> I find this is a lot faster than going through the math panel any way.
Oh great, thanks a lot :-) I used the wrong procedure while trying to
insert this: I click on the (a+b)/c "math mode" button, then the red "TeX"
button and tried to insert this sequence of characters in all imaginable way I
could (with ou without backslash, with ou without curly braces, etc) :-(
Re: [seak.teng-fong@iname.com] Feedback from www.lyx.org
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > This is a known problem with 1.0.4. Note that latex does not accept > file names with accents, so we have to change the name anyway. LyX > 1.1.2 is supposed to do things `almost' correctly. Ok, thanks. Maybe a FAQ section should be setup in the homepage? I've searched through almost the whole site and the whole "known bug" on-line documentation, but I haven't found anything related to this bug. So I don't know if it's a known bug. By the way, I've compiled 1.1.2 in OSF/1 and this bug doesn't appear there. > PS: please send feedback directly to the lyx-devel mailing list. It is > forwarded here anyway... I've sent this few days ago, but since I've so many bugs/questions/requests to send, I finally made up my mind this morning to subscribe to this mailing-list in order to send directly my mails here. Sorry for the troubles.
Special superscript and subscript arrangements
oWhen we want to write tensors in Einstein's notation, we could
write it in latex in this way, R_i{}^j{}_{kl} so that subscripts and
superscripts won't be rearranged together. This time, I found out how
to insert the {} (by the red TeX button) :-) but LyX couldn't process it
correctly. Maybe the same problem as \dj{} mentioned in "Known Bugs"?
By the way, there is macro to do the same thing. For the same
tensor, it's written in this way: \tensor{R}{_i^j_{kl}}
Maybe LyX can be programmed to handle this too?
o Superscripts and subscripts are usual put on the right of variable.
But in atomic notations, eg, they are put to the left. There's no
problem to insert them (just type them). The following lyx example
illustrates this:
\begin_inset Formula \( ^{235}_{92}U+^{1}_{0}n\rightarrow
^{236}_{92}U\rightarrow \ldots \)
\end_inset
However, I wonder if LaTeX (or LyX) allows us to right-adjust those
numbers. For the moment, they're left-adjusted by defaults. Therefore,
I should add in predefined spaces provided by the math-panel. But as
you could imagine, the result is only _approximatively_ right adjusted.
Regards
Seak T.F.
Re: Special superscript and subscript arrangements
"Seak, Teng-Fong" wrote:
> oWhen we want to write tensors in Einstein's notation, we could
> write it in latex in this way, R_i{}^j{}_{kl} so that subscripts and
> superscripts won't be rearranged together. This time, I found out how
> to insert the {} (by the red TeX button) :-) but LyX couldn't process it
> correctly. Maybe the same problem as \dj{} mentioned in "Known Bugs"?
>
> By the way, there is macro to do the same thing. For the same
> tensor, it's written in this way: \tensor{R}{_i^j_{kl}}
>
> Maybe LyX can be programmed to handle this too?
I just checked that actually \tensor isn't included in standard macros
in tetex. But if LyX could support things like R_i{}^j{}_{kl} it's alright
good enough.
Seak
Re: [seak.teng-fong@iname.com] Feedback from www.lyx.org
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > Seak> I have installed the official RPM package of 1.0.4 that I > Seak> downloaded from one of the mirror ftp sites. My Linux > Seak> distribution is Mandrake 6.1 (kernel 2.2.13 and glibc 2.1). I > Seak> found that when the filename of a lyx file doesn\'t consiste of > Seak> only ASCII characters, the file is exported with a wrong name. > > This is a known problem with 1.0.4. Note that latex does not accept > file names with accents, so we have to change the name anyway. LyX > 1.1.2 is supposed to do things `almost' correctly. By curiosity, I've just tested my tetex distribution for Linux with non-Ascii filename. Fortunately, tetex allows these characters in filename. How about the other latex distribution on other platforms? My tetex is 1.0.6 and Linux is Mandrake 6.1. Hope this could help. Seak
Re: [seak.teng-fong@iname.com] Feedback from www.lyx.org
Seak Finally, few weeks ago I asked in the website's "feedback"
Seak section how to "draw" tensor (ie like a vector but with double
Seak arrow on top). Have you received this? If it's not available in
Seak current version, will it be in the future?
I did not answer because I do not know the answer. Presumably amsmath
provides such a macro, and if it does, you should be able to use it
with LyX. However I do not know the specifics.
Someone sent this to me to tell me how to write a tensor. As I'm
not a real latex user, I can't say I understand what to do. Could you,
the developpers of LyX, take a look at this to see if this can be
implemented in LyX? Thanks in advance.
Seak
I'm sure someone has done this and put it in a package somewhere.
but you can define a macro in a personal style file (ie save this as
overRightarrow.sty, and load it with usepackage.)
\newcommand\reldoublebar{\mathrel{\smash=}}
\newcommand{\Rightarrowfill@}[1]{%
\m@th \setboxz@h {$#1\reldoublebar$}\ht \z@ \z@
$#1\copy\z@
\mkern -6mu
\cleaders\hbox{$#1\mkern -2mu\box \z@ \mkern -2mu$}\hfill
\mkern -6mu
\mathord \Rightarrow $}
\newcommand{\overRightarrow}{\mathpalette{\overarrow@\Rightarrowfill@}}
You use the command \overRightarrow{T(p,q,r)}
James
Re: [seak.teng-fong@iname.com] Feedback from www.lyx.org
> Seak> Finally, few weeks ago I asked in the website's "feedback"
> Seak> section how to "draw" tensor (ie like a vector but with double
> Seak> arrow on top). Have you received this? If it's not available in
> Seak> current version, will it be in the future?
>
> I did not answer because I do not know the answer. Presumably amsmath
> provides such a macro, and if it does, you should be able to use it
> with LyX. However I do not know the specifics.
Someone sent this to me to tell me how to write a tensor. As I'm
not a real latex user, I can't say I understand what to do. Could you,
the developpers of LyX, take a look at this to see if this can be
implemented in LyX? Thanks in advance.
Seak
I'm sure someone has done this and put it in a package somewhere.
but you can define a macro in a personal style file (ie save this as
overRightarrow.sty, and load it with usepackage.)
\newcommand\reldoublebar{\mathrel{\smash=}}
\newcommand{\Rightarrowfill@}[1]{%
\m@th \setboxz@h {$#1\reldoublebar$}\ht \z@ \z@
$#1\copy\z@
\mkern -6mu
\cleaders\hbox{$#1\mkern -2mu\box \z@ \mkern -2mu$}\hfill
\mkern -6mu
\mathord \Rightarrow $}
\newcommand{\overRightarrow}{\mathpalette{\overarrow@\Rightarrowfill@}}
You use the command \overRightarrow{T(p,q,r)}
James
Re: [seak.teng-fong@iname.com] Feedback from www.lyx.org
Seak Finally, few weeks ago I asked in the website's "feedback"
Seak section how to "draw" tensor (ie like a vector but with double
Seak arrow on top). Have you received this? If it's not available in
Seak current version, will it be in the future?
I did not answer because I do not know the answer. Presumably amsmath
provides such a macro, and if it does, you should be able to use it
with LyX. However I do not know the specifics.
My friend told me that in LaTeX, it's like this:
\stackrel{\Rightarrow}{T}
to put the double arrow on top of T. But if the symbol is longer, like
T_0, the length of the arrow isn't increased, as shown by the example
file attached in this mail. I don't know any "orthodox" way to write a
tensor, unfortunately.
For the rest of the mail, I'll look at them later and answer you
soon.
Regards,
Seak
tensor.tex
Re: [seak.teng-fong@iname.com] Feedback from www.lyx.org
> Seak> Finally, few weeks ago I asked in the website's "feedback"
> Seak> section how to "draw" tensor (ie like a vector but with double
> Seak> arrow on top). Have you received this? If it's not available in
> Seak> current version, will it be in the future?
>
> I did not answer because I do not know the answer. Presumably amsmath
> provides such a macro, and if it does, you should be able to use it
> with LyX. However I do not know the specifics.
My friend told me that in LaTeX, it's like this:
\stackrel{\Rightarrow}{T}
to put the double arrow on top of T. But if the symbol is longer, like
T_0, the length of the arrow isn't increased, as shown by the example
file attached in this mail. I don't know any "orthodox" way to write a
tensor, unfortunately.
For the rest of the mail, I'll look at them later and answer you
soon.
Regards,
Seak
tensor.tex
Re: [seak.teng-fong@iname.com] Feedback from www.lyx.org
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: LyX put all these in the same size in a displayed equation (i.e. an equation which is alone on its line). For a text equation (inside a line of text), using fractions like you propose leads to an uneven spacing of lines and makes text difficult to read (the same holds for sum sub/superscripts). Seak [snipped] I do not have those reference in out library, but do you mean that they use the same size of fractions _inside_ of text? And they manage to get a correct spacing? Ok, I finally see what you mean :-) o For the documents and notes that I'm writing, actually, there're a lot of equations / formulae, but very few text :) and they are all alone in their line, but it's just that I didn't use the "math display" because I didn't see the necessity to put them in the center of the page. In fact, I wrote a lot of intermediate steps while solving equations, calculating expressions, etc. "Math display" is good for showing _final results_, but not for intermediate steps. For these, I'd prefer them to be left-adjusted. Well, from what I've read from the "Tutorial", maybe this isn't what you would expect from a user, right? o And for the books: Indeed, complicated expressions are always avoided as much as possible in the text line. When a fraction is needed, if it as simple as 1/2 (not "slashed fraction", but an upright fraction), smaller font is used. When the fraction is quite complicated, a "slashed fraction" like (a + b)/(c + d) or dx/dt is used instead. However, in some situations, the interline space is increased to improve readability. Eg, Turbulence in Fluids 2nd edition; Lesieur; Kluwer (1990), on top of page 25. An another example can be an expression under radical like the radical.lyx file that I attached. But please note that the PS file made from this file shows that the interline space above the radical is _decreased_ instead of being increased or remaining the same! Strange, is this normal? If you don't see the same thing as mine, maybe your latex system is different. I could send you the exported PS (or DVI) file later if you need. On the other hand, it's sure that lines won't be equally spaced, but personally I don't mind this. Have a look at the example appended to see what I mean. In this case, the second paragraph is clearly not typeset correctly. [example here] #This file was created by lasgoutt Tue Nov 23 14:26:58 1999 #LyX 1.0 (C) 1995-1999 Matthias Ettrich and the LyX Team [snipped] \the_end Oh yes, I see. On my screen, I also see that in the first paragraph, the interline space above the fraction is slighted increased to adjust the superscript. But either case, it's not a problem. For the second case, we could expect users to use slashed fraction. By the way, fractions inside a matrix can't be changed to use normal size (cf attached test.lyx). Whether in display mode or not. This time I'm very sure that normal size should be used for fractions inside matrix. Or did I do something wrong? Or I miss something? Please tell me. Finally, few weeks ago I asked in the website's "feedback" section how to "draw" tensor (ie like a vector but with double arrow on top). Have you received this? If it's not available in current version, will it be in the future? Regards Seak
examples for Re: [seak.teng-fong@iname.com] Feedback from www.lyx.org
Here are the examples.
#This file was created by seak Wed Nov 24 12:47:35 1999
#LyX 1.0 (C) 1995-1999 Matthias Ettrich and the LyX Team
\lyxformat 2.15
\textclass article
\language default
\inputencoding default
\fontscheme default
\graphics default
\paperfontsize default
\spacing single
\papersize Default
\paperpackage a4
\use_geometry 0
\use_amsmath 0
\paperorientation portrait
\secnumdepth 3
\tocdepth 3
\paragraph_separation indent
\defskip medskip
\quotes_language english
\quotes_times 2
\papercolumns 1
\papersides 1
\paperpagestyle default
\layout Standard
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
\begin_inset Formula \( \sqrt{x^{2}+y^{2}} \)
\end_inset
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
\the_end
#This file was created by seak Tue Nov 23 17:01:37 1999
#LyX 1.0 (C) 1995-1999 Matthias Ettrich and the LyX Team
\lyxformat 2.15
\textclass article
\language default
\inputencoding default
\fontscheme default
\graphics default
\paperfontsize default
\spacing single
\papersize Default
\paperpackage a4
\use_geometry 0
\use_amsmath 0
\paperorientation portrait
\secnumdepth 3
\tocdepth 3
\paragraph_separation indent
\defskip medskip
\quotes_language english
\quotes_times 2
\papercolumns 1
\papersides 1
\paperpagestyle default
\layout Standard
\begin_inset Formula \( \begin{array}{c}
\overrightarrow{t}=a_{11}\hat{x}+a_{12}\hat{y}\\
\overrightarrow{n}=a_{21}\hat{x}+a_{22}\hat{y}
\end{array} \)
\end_inset
\begin_inset Formula \( \Leftrightarrow \)
\end_inset
\begin_inset Formula \( \begin{array}{ll}
\displaystyle a_{11}=1, a_{12}=\frac{x_{0}}{a_{0}}\\
a_{21}=-\frac{x_{0}}{a_{0}}, a_{22}=1
\end{array} \)
\end_inset
\the_end
Re: [seak.teng-fong@iname.com] Feedback from www.lyx.org
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > LyX put all these in the same size in a displayed equation (i.e. an > equation which is alone on its line). For a text equation (inside a > line of text), using fractions like you propose leads to an uneven > spacing of lines and makes text difficult to read (the same holds for > sum sub/superscripts). > > Seak> [snipped] > > I do not have those reference in out library, but do you mean that > they use the same size of fractions _inside_ of text? And they manage > to get a correct spacing? Ok, I finally see what you mean :-) o For the documents and notes that I'm writing, actually, there're a lot of equations / formulae, but very few text :) and they are all alone in their line, but it's just that I didn't use the "math display" because I didn't see the necessity to put them in the center of the page. In fact, I wrote a lot of intermediate steps while solving equations, calculating expressions, etc. "Math display" is good for showing _final results_, but not for intermediate steps. For these, I'd prefer them to be left-adjusted. Well, from what I've read from the "Tutorial", maybe this isn't what you would expect from a user, right? o And for the books: Indeed, complicated expressions are always avoided as much as possible in the text line. When a fraction is needed, if it as simple as 1/2 (not "slashed fraction", but an upright fraction), smaller font is used. When the fraction is quite complicated, a "slashed fraction" like (a + b)/(c + d) or dx/dt is used instead. However, in some situations, the interline space is increased to improve readability. Eg, Turbulence in Fluids 2nd edition; Lesieur; Kluwer (1990), on top of page 25. An another example can be an expression under radical like the radical.lyx file that I attached. But please note that the PS file made from this file shows that the interline space above the radical is _decreased_ instead of being increased or remaining the same! Strange, is this normal? If you don't see the same thing as mine, maybe your latex system is different. I could send you the exported PS (or DVI) file later if you need. On the other hand, it's sure that lines won't be equally spaced, but personally I don't mind this. > Have a look at the example appended to see what I mean. In this case, > the second paragraph is clearly not typeset correctly. > [example here] > #This file was created by Tue Nov 23 14:26:58 1999 > #LyX 1.0 (C) 1995-1999 Matthias Ettrich and the LyX Team > [snipped] > \the_end Oh yes, I see. On my screen, I also see that in the first paragraph, the interline space above the fraction is slighted increased to adjust the superscript. But either case, it's not a problem. For the second case, we could expect users to use slashed fraction. By the way, fractions inside a matrix can't be changed to use normal size (cf attached test.lyx). Whether in display mode or not. This time I'm very sure that normal size should be used for fractions inside matrix. Or did I do something wrong? Or I miss something? Please tell me. Finally, few weeks ago I asked in the website's "feedback" section how to "draw" tensor (ie like a vector but with double arrow on top). Have you received this? If it's not available in current version, will it be in the future? Regards Seak
examples for Re: [seak.teng-fong@iname.com] Feedback from www.lyx.org
Here are the examples.
#This file was created by Wed Nov 24 12:47:35 1999
#LyX 1.0 (C) 1995-1999 Matthias Ettrich and the LyX Team
\lyxformat 2.15
\textclass article
\language default
\inputencoding default
\fontscheme default
\graphics default
\paperfontsize default
\spacing single
\papersize Default
\paperpackage a4
\use_geometry 0
\use_amsmath 0
\paperorientation portrait
\secnumdepth 3
\tocdepth 3
\paragraph_separation indent
\defskip medskip
\quotes_language english
\quotes_times 2
\papercolumns 1
\papersides 1
\paperpagestyle default
\layout Standard
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
\begin_inset Formula \( \sqrt{x^{2}+y^{2}} \)
\end_inset
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
Something here.
\the_end
#This file was created by Tue Nov 23 17:01:37 1999
#LyX 1.0 (C) 1995-1999 Matthias Ettrich and the LyX Team
\lyxformat 2.15
\textclass article
\language default
\inputencoding default
\fontscheme default
\graphics default
\paperfontsize default
\spacing single
\papersize Default
\paperpackage a4
\use_geometry 0
\use_amsmath 0
\paperorientation portrait
\secnumdepth 3
\tocdepth 3
\paragraph_separation indent
\defskip medskip
\quotes_language english
\quotes_times 2
\papercolumns 1
\papersides 1
\paperpagestyle default
\layout Standard
\begin_inset Formula \( \begin{array}{c}
\overrightarrow{t}=a_{11}\hat{x}+a_{12}\hat{y}\\
\overrightarrow{n}=a_{21}\hat{x}+a_{22}\hat{y}
\end{array} \)
\end_inset
\begin_inset Formula \( \Leftrightarrow \)
\end_inset
\begin_inset Formula \( \begin{array}{ll}
\displaystyle a_{11}=1, & a_{12}=\frac{x_{0}}{a_{0}}\\
a_{21}=-\frac{x_{0}}{a_{0}}, & a_{22}=1
\end{array} \)
\end_inset
\the_end
Re: [seak.teng-fong@iname.com] Feedback from www.lyx.org
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
Seak Nowadays, fractions in mathematical expressions are becoming so
Seak common that it\'s conventional to use the same font size for
Seak fractions. As a result, I\'ve to set \"math-size displaystyle\"
Seak for every fraction, and it\'s becoming very tedious. Please
Seak consider of implementing a global setting (for the whole
Seak document) for this options, or even better, this is the default
Seak for fractions unless users want to use smaller fonts.
Hmm, I do not see where this is conventionnal... This often leads to
horrible typesetting. There is absolutely zero chance for this to
become the default, as far as I am concerned.
Yes, I could assure you that it's conventional (ie. it is a
convention / habit) to use same font size in fraction as well as in non
fraction. In this fraction
y²
x = --
z
the default behaviour of LyX (and LaTeX?) is to use smaller font for 'y'
and 'z', and an even smaller one for '2', but usually, 'x', 'y' and 'z'
should have the same size.
You could check this by looking at any scientific books, reviews,
letter or articles. If you like, here are some English references at my
disposition to persuade you:
* Chemistry in Context 2nd edition; Hill Holman; ELBS; 1983, ISBN 0 17
438359 2 (For ex, page 347)
* Further Pure Mathematics; Bostock et al.; ELBS; 1987; ISBN 0 85950 519
7
(any page)
* Introduction to Quantum Mechanics; Bransden et al.; Longman Scientific
Technical; 1992; ISBN 0-582-44498-5 (any page)
* A numerical library in C for Scientists and Engineers; Lau; CRC Press;
1995; ISBN 0-8493-7376-X (eg page 286)
And even in this old article dated in 1962:
Weinberg S., Eikonal Method in Magnetohydrodynamics, The Physical Review,
Vol 126, No 6 (1962), page 1899
And of course, it's the same in French books/articles.
If you want that in a document add the following to your preamble (not
tested):
\usepackage{amsmath}
\let\frac=\dfrac
I suppose you mean in my .lyx file, right? Well, I put these two
lines at the beginning of the file and before "\layout Standard" using a
text editor. I then open it using LyX but I get this message:
LyX: Unknown token `\usepackage{amsmath}'. Inserting as text. [around
line 25 of file ~/doc/Parabole.lyx]
LyX: Unknown token `\let'. Inserting as text. [around line 25 of file
~/doc/Parabole.lyx]
LyX: Unknown token `\frac='. Inserting as text. [around line 25 of file
~/doc/Parabole.lyx]
LyX: Unknown token `\dfrac'. Inserting as text. [around line 26 of file
~/doc/Parabole.lyx]
Regards,
Seak
PS: I'm not a member of your mailing-list.
Re: [seak.teng-fong@iname.com] Feedback from www.lyx.org
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> Seak> Nowadays, fractions in mathematical expressions are becoming so
> Seak> common that it\'s conventional to use the same font size for
> Seak> fractions. As a result, I\'ve to set \"math-size displaystyle\"
> Seak> for every fraction, and it\'s becoming very tedious. Please
> Seak> consider of implementing a global setting (for the whole
> Seak> document) for this options, or even better, this is the default
> Seak> for fractions unless users want to use smaller fonts.
>
> Hmm, I do not see where this is conventionnal... This often leads to
> horrible typesetting. There is absolutely zero chance for this to
> become the default, as far as I am concerned.
Yes, I could assure you that it's conventional (ie. it is a
convention / habit) to use same font size in fraction as well as in non
fraction. In this fraction
y²
x = --
z
the default behaviour of LyX (and LaTeX?) is to use smaller font for 'y'
and 'z', and an even smaller one for '2', but usually, 'x', 'y' and 'z'
should have the same size.
You could check this by looking at any scientific books, reviews,
letter or articles. If you like, here are some English references at my
disposition to persuade you:
* Chemistry in Context 2nd edition; Hill & Holman; ELBS; 1983, ISBN 0 17
438359 2 (For ex, page 347)
* Further Pure Mathematics; Bostock et al.; ELBS; 1987; ISBN 0 85950 519
7
(any page)
* Introduction to Quantum Mechanics; Bransden et al.; Longman Scientific
& Technical; 1992; ISBN 0-582-44498-5 (any page)
* A numerical library in C for Scientists and Engineers; Lau; CRC Press;
1995; ISBN 0-8493-7376-X (eg page 286)
And even in this old article dated in 1962:
Weinberg S., Eikonal Method in Magnetohydrodynamics, The Physical Review,
Vol 126, No 6 (1962), page 1899
And of course, it's the same in French books/articles.
> If you want that in a document add the following to your preamble (not
> tested):
>
> \usepackage{amsmath}
> \let\frac=\dfrac
I suppose you mean in my .lyx file, right? Well, I put these two
lines at the beginning of the file and before "\layout Standard" using a
text editor. I then open it using LyX but I get this message:
LyX: Unknown token `\usepackage{amsmath}'. Inserting as text. [around
line 25 of file ~/doc/Parabole.lyx]
LyX: Unknown token `\let'. Inserting as text. [around line 25 of file
~/doc/Parabole.lyx]
LyX: Unknown token `\frac='. Inserting as text. [around line 25 of file
~/doc/Parabole.lyx]
LyX: Unknown token `\dfrac'. Inserting as text. [around line 26 of file
~/doc/Parabole.lyx]
Regards,
Seak
PS: I'm not a member of your mailing-list.
Re: LyX Feedback (ISO 8859-1 in LaTeX?)
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
Seak For the Linux version, after Options - Reconfigure, it
Seak still gives \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
This is fine. My problem was rather with the other case (with an empty
value).
I'm sorry but I've no idea why there's an empty value. Actually, the
OSF version of LyX was compiled by me. Maybe the LaTeX system isn't
complete.
Seak
Re: LyX Feedback (ISO 8859-1 in LaTeX?)
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> Seak> For the Linux version, after Options -> Reconfigure, it
> Seak> still gives \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
>
> This is fine. My problem was rather with the other case (with an empty
> value).
I'm sorry but I've no idea why there's an empty value. Actually, the
OSF version of LyX was compiled by me. Maybe the LaTeX system isn't
complete.
Seak
Re: LyX Feedback (ISO 8859-1 in LaTeX?)
"Lars Gullik Bjønnes" wrote:
"Seak, Teng-Fong" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
| \usepackage[]{fontenc}
^^^
Is this the real line in the file? If so it is buggy.
Oh sorry, I should have double checked before answering your
mail.
In fact, this line comes from exported file made by LyX under
Alpha/OSF1/CDE. The same line made by LyX under Linux is
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
Both are LyX 1.0.1. Since there's no LyX 1.0.1 binary for OSF1,
I
compiled it myself. But I don't know why the results are different.
Sorry for that.
Seak
Re: LyX Feedback (ISO 8859-1 in LaTeX?)
"Lars Gullik Bjønnes" wrote:
> "Seak, Teng-Fong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> | > \usepackage[]{fontenc}
> ^^^
>
> Is this the real line in the file? If so it is buggy.
Oh sorry, I should have double checked before answering your
mail.
In fact, this line comes from exported file made by LyX under
Alpha/OSF1/CDE. The same line made by LyX under Linux is
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
Both are LyX 1.0.1. Since there's no LyX 1.0.1 binary for OSF1,
I
compiled it myself. But I don't know why the results are different.
Sorry for that.
Seak
