Re: Acknowledgment vs. Acknowledgement
On Wed, Feb 01, 2023 at 03:48:39PM +0100, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > Am Dienstag, dem 31.01.2023 um 14:39 +0100 schrieb Pavel Sanda: > > And we don't even know what to say if some translator asks :) > > I'll ask on lyx-users. Thanks Juergen. I'll take care of layouttranslations later. Pavel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Acknowledgment vs. Acknowledgement
Am Dienstag, dem 31.01.2023 um 14:39 +0100 schrieb Pavel Sanda: > And we don't even know what to say if some translator asks :) I'll ask on lyx-users. -- Jürgen -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Acknowledgment vs. Acknowledgement
On Wed, Feb 01, 2023 at 02:06:44PM +0100, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > Am Dienstag, dem 31.01.2023 um 14:39 +0100 schrieb Pavel Sanda: > > In any case the current situation in lib/layouttranslations will be > > more > > confusing now, because we provide Acknowledgment from AMS with most > > languages > > explicitely using it in the sense of "credits" which is most likely > > wrong. And we don't even know what to say if some translator asks :) > > I propose to use Acknowledgments[[credits]] and > Acknowledgment[[theorem]] to disambiguate the two cases. > > I have a patch ready. OK to commit? Looks good to me. Pavel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Acknowledgment vs. Acknowledgement
Am Dienstag, dem 31.01.2023 um 14:39 +0100 schrieb Pavel Sanda: > In any case the current situation in lib/layouttranslations will be > more > confusing now, because we provide Acknowledgment from AMS with most > languages > explicitely using it in the sense of "credits" which is most likely > wrong. And we don't even know what to say if some translator asks :) I propose to use Acknowledgments[[credits]] and Acknowledgment[[theorem]] to disambiguate the two cases. I have a patch ready. OK to commit? -- Jürgen -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Acknowledgment vs. Acknowledgement
Le 31/01/2023 à 07:52, Jürgen Spitzmüller a écrit : Am Montag, dem 30.01.2023 um 15:26 -0500 schrieb Richard Kimberly Heck: Yes, it's fine with me. Done. While doing it, it occurred to me that the acknowledgment strings in their different uses might need disambiguation. The theorem type "Acknowledgment" has not the same semantics than the "Acknowledgment[s]" in some of the article classes, right? The latter is to display gratefulness to grant sponsors and colleagues (i.e., credits), but I can't imagine the theorem type has that function. It is more to acknowledge (and maybe critically challenge) an argument, right? To German, acknowledgment could be translated as (a) Danksagung (credits), (b) Würdigung (respect), (c) Eingeständnis (admission), or (d) Erwiderung (reply). Which one is it? I'd tip (b) or (d). True, I've found a translation for French. But xx.po for 2.3 should be edited as well IMHO. -- Jean-Pierre -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Acknowledgment vs. Acknowledgement
On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 07:52:41AM +0100, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > but I can't imagine the theorem type has that function. It is > more to acknowledge (and maybe critically challenge) an argument, > right? I admit I never saw it in some math paper (yet), but given that it's environment which can be numbered, the semantics might be indeed different than usual Acknowledgment section at the end of papers (in the context of math text I would intuitively understand it rather as "admission"). In any case the current situation in lib/layouttranslations will be more confusing now, because we provide Acknowledgment from AMS with most languages explicitely using it in the sense of "credits" which is most likely wrong. And we don't even know what to say if some translator asks :) Pavel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Acknowledgment vs. Acknowledgement
On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 10:05 Scott Kostyshak wrote: > On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 07:26:31AM +0100, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > > Am Montag, dem 30.01.2023 um 08:28 +1300 schrieb Andrew Parsloe: > > > Just to confuse matters, my "New Oxford English Dictionary" (in fact > > > from the 1990s) has "acknowledgement (also acknowledgment)" whereas > > > with words like "colour" and "tyre" it has "colour (US color)", "tyre > > > (US tire)". In other words, it doesn't see the > > > "acknowledgement/acknowledgment" distinction as a UK/US one. > > > > Thanks. According to my (rather superficial) research, both variants > > seem to be used in both regions to _some_ degree, though the "e" > > variant seems to be significantly more frequent outside US than within > > US and Canada, where the other variant seems more common. > > > > Some dictionaries, and particular spelling-related blogs and fora do > > make the distinction explicitly. I have become aware of it while > > revising the English Additional Features manual, as my (US) English > > spellchecker (hunspell) nagged about Acknowledgement and suggested > > Acknowledgment. > > > > Such national variety distinctions are always fuzzy when you look > > closer. The question here probably boils down to what users from that > > regions would expect. > > I wish I could give a helpful perspective from a "native" U.S. English > speaker, but this word (and its friends "judgment" and "judgement") have > haunted me for a long time. Just going off of memory, I think I usually > spell it "acknowledgement" because that makes more sense to me from a > spelling "rules" perspective, but I remember searching and realizing > that "acknowledgment" is indeed the U.S. way to spell it. So now I try > to use that for consistency. But every few months or so, whenever I > spell it the U.S. way I second-guess myself and think I've made a > spelling mistake and I spend 10 minutes googling and looking at > discussions and historical origins and then I spend another 2 minutes > lamenting that the time I spent googling was not worth the cost of a > potential spelling mistake. > > In summary, I think you are right that in U.S. English the most common > is "acknowledgment". In these circumstances and others for style and grammar, I’ve started turning to the Chicago Manual of Style. It has been a tremendous resource and “rule book” to help ensure consistency for all of the above. In this case, section 7.1 of the 17th edition would point us to Merrimam-Webster’s collegiate dictionary as the preferred source, which indicates acknowledgment. Hope this helps, Joel P.S., just recently I was writing a paper and LyX had red underlined and encouraged me to change from acknowledgement to acknowledgment. :-) -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Acknowledgment vs. Acknowledgement
On Mon, 2023-01-30 at 12:42 -0500, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote: > What I would expect from my students is consistency. > > Riki We can always dream. :-D -- José Abílio -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Acknowledgment vs. Acknowledgement
Am Montag, dem 30.01.2023 um 15:26 -0500 schrieb Richard Kimberly Heck: > Yes, it's fine with me. Done. While doing it, it occurred to me that the acknowledgment strings in their different uses might need disambiguation. The theorem type "Acknowledgment" has not the same semantics than the "Acknowledgment[s]" in some of the article classes, right? The latter is to display gratefulness to grant sponsors and colleagues (i.e., credits), but I can't imagine the theorem type has that function. It is more to acknowledge (and maybe critically challenge) an argument, right? To German, acknowledgment could be translated as (a) Danksagung (credits), (b) Würdigung (respect), (c) Eingeständnis (admission), or (d) Erwiderung (reply). Which one is it? I'd tip (b) or (d). -- Jürgen -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Acknowledgment vs. Acknowledgement
On 1/30/23 12:45, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Am Montag, dem 30.01.2023 um 12:42 -0500 schrieb Richard Kimberly Heck: On 1/30/23 01:26, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Am Montag, dem 30.01.2023 um 08:28 +1300 schrieb Andrew Parsloe: Just to confuse matters, my "New Oxford English Dictionary" (in fact from the 1990s) has "acknowledgement (also acknowledgment)" whereas with words like "colour" and "tyre" it has "colour (US color)", "tyre (US tire)". In other words, it doesn't see the "acknowledgement/acknowledgment" distinction as a UK/US one. Thanks. According to my (rather superficial) research, both variants seem to be used in both regions to _some_ degree, though the "e" variant seems to be significantly more frequent outside US than within US and Canada, where the other variant seems more common. Yes, I think that's generally true. E.g. "judgement" vs "judgment". My sense is that, nowadays, the distinction matters less than it once did---the internet and all that---and that both spellings are regarded as correct. What I would expect from my students is consistency. So good to go for a change? (Myself I care not much, as I do not use these kinds of acknowledg[e]ments). Yes, it's fine with me. Riki -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Acknowledgment vs. Acknowledgement
Am Montag, dem 30.01.2023 um 12:42 -0500 schrieb Richard Kimberly Heck: > On 1/30/23 01:26, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > > Am Montag, dem 30.01.2023 um 08:28 +1300 schrieb Andrew Parsloe: > > > Just to confuse matters, my "New Oxford English Dictionary" (in > > > fact > > > from the 1990s) has "acknowledgement (also acknowledgment)" > > > whereas > > > with words like "colour" and "tyre" it has "colour (US color)", > > > "tyre > > > (US tire)". In other words, it doesn't see the > > > "acknowledgement/acknowledgment" distinction as a UK/US one. > > Thanks. According to my (rather superficial) research, both > > variants > > seem to be used in both regions to _some_ degree, though the "e" > > variant seems to be significantly more frequent outside US than > > within > > US and Canada, where the other variant seems more common. > > Yes, I think that's generally true. E.g. "judgement" vs "judgment". > My > sense is that, nowadays, the distinction matters less than it once > did---the internet and all that---and that both spellings are > regarded > as correct. What I would expect from my students is consistency. So good to go for a change? (Myself I care not much, as I do not use these kinds of acknowledg[e]ments). -- Jürgen -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Acknowledgment vs. Acknowledgement
On 1/30/23 01:26, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Am Montag, dem 30.01.2023 um 08:28 +1300 schrieb Andrew Parsloe: Just to confuse matters, my "New Oxford English Dictionary" (in fact from the 1990s) has "acknowledgement (also acknowledgment)" whereas with words like "colour" and "tyre" it has "colour (US color)", "tyre (US tire)". In other words, it doesn't see the "acknowledgement/acknowledgment" distinction as a UK/US one. Thanks. According to my (rather superficial) research, both variants seem to be used in both regions to _some_ degree, though the "e" variant seems to be significantly more frequent outside US than within US and Canada, where the other variant seems more common. Yes, I think that's generally true. E.g. "judgement" vs "judgment". My sense is that, nowadays, the distinction matters less than it once did---the internet and all that---and that both spellings are regarded as correct. What I would expect from my students is consistency. Riki -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Acknowledgment vs. Acknowledgement
On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 07:26:31AM +0100, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > Am Montag, dem 30.01.2023 um 08:28 +1300 schrieb Andrew Parsloe: > > Just to confuse matters, my "New Oxford English Dictionary" (in fact > > from the 1990s) has "acknowledgement (also acknowledgment)" whereas > > with words like "colour" and "tyre" it has "colour (US color)", "tyre > > (US tire)". In other words, it doesn't see the > > "acknowledgement/acknowledgment" distinction as a UK/US one. > > Thanks. According to my (rather superficial) research, both variants > seem to be used in both regions to _some_ degree, though the "e" > variant seems to be significantly more frequent outside US than within > US and Canada, where the other variant seems more common. > > Some dictionaries, and particular spelling-related blogs and fora do > make the distinction explicitly. I have become aware of it while > revising the English Additional Features manual, as my (US) English > spellchecker (hunspell) nagged about Acknowledgement and suggested > Acknowledgment. > > Such national variety distinctions are always fuzzy when you look > closer. The question here probably boils down to what users from that > regions would expect. I wish I could give a helpful perspective from a "native" U.S. English speaker, but this word (and its friends "judgment" and "judgement") have haunted me for a long time. Just going off of memory, I think I usually spell it "acknowledgement" because that makes more sense to me from a spelling "rules" perspective, but I remember searching and realizing that "acknowledgment" is indeed the U.S. way to spell it. So now I try to use that for consistency. But every few months or so, whenever I spell it the U.S. way I second-guess myself and think I've made a spelling mistake and I spend 10 minutes googling and looking at discussions and historical origins and then I spend another 2 minutes lamenting that the time I spent googling was not worth the cost of a potential spelling mistake. In summary, I think you are right that in U.S. English the most common is "acknowledgment". Scott signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Acknowledgment vs. Acknowledgement
Am Montag, dem 30.01.2023 um 08:28 +1300 schrieb Andrew Parsloe: > Just to confuse matters, my "New Oxford English Dictionary" (in fact > from the 1990s) has "acknowledgement (also acknowledgment)" whereas > with words like "colour" and "tyre" it has "colour (US color)", "tyre > (US tire)". In other words, it doesn't see the > "acknowledgement/acknowledgment" distinction as a UK/US one. Thanks. According to my (rather superficial) research, both variants seem to be used in both regions to _some_ degree, though the "e" variant seems to be significantly more frequent outside US than within US and Canada, where the other variant seems more common. Some dictionaries, and particular spelling-related blogs and fora do make the distinction explicitly. I have become aware of it while revising the English Additional Features manual, as my (US) English spellchecker (hunspell) nagged about Acknowledgement and suggested Acknowledgment. Such national variety distinctions are always fuzzy when you look closer. The question here probably boils down to what users from that regions would expect. -- Jürgen -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Acknowledgment vs. Acknowledgement
On 29/01/2023 11:37 pm, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: In the AMS extended theorem modules, we define a theorem type "Acknowledgement". However, to my best knowledge, the US English spelling is acknowledgment (vs. British acknowledgement). I wonder whether this should be changed (and the Britisch spelling added via l7n). The LaTeX command name can stay as is to avoid compatibility issues. Just to confuse matters, my "New Oxford English Dictionary" (in fact from the 1990s) has "acknowledgement (also acknowledgment)" whereas with words like "colour" and "tyre" it has "colour (US color)", "tyre (US tire)". In other words, it doesn't see the "acknowledgement/acknowledgment" distinction as a UK/US one. Andrew -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Acknowledgment vs. Acknowledgement
In the AMS extended theorem modules, we define a theorem type "Acknowledgement". However, to my best knowledge, the US English spelling is acknowledgment (vs. British acknowledgement). I wonder whether this should be changed (and the Britisch spelling added via l7n). The LaTeX command name can stay as is to avoid compatibility issues. -- Jürgen -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
