Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Yuriy Skalko]

Le 09/12/2020 à 10:00, Yuriy Skalko a écrit :

But now Trac works without any server maintainer, right? As I understand 
Gitea don't require much maintenance. Upgrading it is just replacing one binary 
and restarting (I have done this several times without any issues) If there is 
interest and it is possible to get SSH access to some VM in OSUOSL (or in other 
place), I'm ready to prepare Gitea instance so we can try it on practice and 
compare with alternatives.


As for me, Gitea to Gitlab is like LyX to MS Word. Gitlab is too slow, 
bloated and has not so good usability.


But it all depend on the goals. To have better popularity and bring new developers, GitHub will be the best option. To preserve current workflow, updating Trac will be the best. To have fast development site with modern features (such as pull requests and code review), Gitea will provide this. 



One big point concerning gitlab/github/gitea is our ability to import the trac 
tickets database as faithfully as possible. Changing our workflow is not a 
problem if it is for the best, but our tickets are the history of the project, 
we should preserve as much data as possible.


JMarc



I've found an interesting Gitea hosting called Codeberg (based in Germany).
So I've cloned LyX repo there for testing purposes. You can check it here:
https://codeberg.org/magistere/lyx/ Also you can register on Codeberg, 
fork this repository and explore more Gitea features.


As I understand for Trac issues importing direct database access is 
needed, so it cannot be done on this hosting.



Yuriy

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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Richard Kimberly Heck]

On 12/10/20 11:31 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 11:13:21AM -0500, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote:

On 12/10/20 8:26 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

On Sun, Dec 06, 2020 at 11:41:53PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

You did the upgrade to CentOS 6 a while back, didn't you? Obviously, we
can't be sure an upgrade to some newer version would go smoothly, but it
worked all right last time, yes?

All I did was some upgrades of the CentOS6 system as it was from the start.
Now the current is CentOS8. I do not know whether we have to go through
CentOS7 first.

Word of warning here: AFAIK CentOS7 should be supported till 2024,
CentOS8 only till the end of 2021 (no I am not joking).

This page

https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata/#Life_Cycle_Dates

says that maintenance support for CentOS 8 runs through 2029. It could be
out of date. I saw the blog post about Stream.

Yes, Stream is a new announcement. The original CentOS founder already
announced creation of new 'Rocky' distribution which should continue
with what CentOS was originally doing. We'll need to wait few years
to see how well it goes...


Well, then, Centos 7 would take us as far as 2024. My sense from just 
reading the Rocky stuff is that we'll have something operable before 
long. There are TONS of places that use CentOS for production servers, 
and there are already offers of web space, development assistance, etc. 
Other than infrastructure for mirrors and the like, it's mostly a matter 
of dealing with the re-brandings and building RPMs.


Riki


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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Pavel Sanda]

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 11:13:21AM -0500, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote:
> On 12/10/20 8:26 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:
> > On Sun, Dec 06, 2020 at 11:41:53PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> > > > You did the upgrade to CentOS 6 a while back, didn't you? Obviously, we
> > > > can't be sure an upgrade to some newer version would go smoothly, but it
> > > > worked all right last time, yes?
> > > All I did was some upgrades of the CentOS6 system as it was from the 
> > > start.
> > > Now the current is CentOS8. I do not know whether we have to go through
> > > CentOS7 first.
> > Word of warning here: AFAIK CentOS7 should be supported till 2024,
> > CentOS8 only till the end of 2021 (no I am not joking).
> 
> This page
> 
> https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata/#Life_Cycle_Dates
> 
> says that maintenance support for CentOS 8 runs through 2029. It could be
> out of date. I saw the blog post about Stream.

Yes, Stream is a new announcement. The original CentOS founder already
announced creation of new 'Rocky' distribution which should continue
with what CentOS was originally doing. We'll need to wait few years
to see how well it goes...

Pavel
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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Richard Kimberly Heck]

On 12/10/20 10:00 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

[going back to lyx-devel]

Le 09/12/2020 à 10:00, Yuriy Skalko a écrit :
But now Trac works without any server maintainer, right? As I 
understand Gitea don't require much maintenance. Upgrading it is just 
replacing one binary and restarting (I have done this several times 
without any issues)
If there is interest and it is possible to get SSH access to some VM 
in OSUOSL (or in other place), I'm ready to prepare Gitea instance so 
we can try it on practice and compare with alternatives.


As for me, Gitea to Gitlab is like LyX to MS Word. Gitlab is too 
slow, bloated and has not so good usability.


But it all depend on the goals. To have better popularity and bring 
new developers, GitHub will be the best option. To preserve current 
workflow, updating Trac will be the best. To have fast development 
site with modern features (such as pull requests and code review), 
Gitea will provide this.


One big point concerning gitlab/github/gitea is our ability to import 
the trac tickets database as faithfully as possible. Changing our 
workflow is not a problem if it is for the best, but our tickets are 
the history of the project, we should preserve as much data as possible.


Agreed. But we ought to be able to test the translation without much 
difficulty while keeping trac running on the server.


Riki


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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Richard Kimberly Heck]

On 12/10/20 8:26 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

On Sun, Dec 06, 2020 at 11:41:53PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

You did the upgrade to CentOS 6 a while back, didn't you? Obviously, we
can't be sure an upgrade to some newer version would go smoothly, but it
worked all right last time, yes?

All I did was some upgrades of the CentOS6 system as it was from the start.
Now the current is CentOS8. I do not know whether we have to go through
CentOS7 first.

Word of warning here: AFAIK CentOS7 should be supported till 2024,
CentOS8 only till the end of 2021 (no I am not joking).


This page

https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata/#Life_Cycle_Dates

says that maintenance support for CentOS 8 runs through 2029. It could 
be out of date. I saw the blog post about Stream.


Riki


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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

[going back to lyx-devel]

Le 09/12/2020 à 10:00, Yuriy Skalko a écrit :
But now Trac works without any server maintainer, right? As I understand 
Gitea don't require much maintenance. Upgrading it is just replacing one 
binary and restarting (I have done this several times without any issues)
If there is interest and it is possible to get SSH access to some VM in 
OSUOSL (or in other place), I'm ready to prepare Gitea instance so we 
can try it on practice and compare with alternatives.


As for me, Gitea to Gitlab is like LyX to MS Word. Gitlab is too slow, 
bloated and has not so good usability.


But it all depend on the goals. To have better popularity and bring new 
developers, GitHub will be the best option. To preserve current 
workflow, updating Trac will be the best. To have fast development site 
with modern features (such as pull requests and code review), Gitea will 
provide this.


One big point concerning gitlab/github/gitea is our ability to import 
the trac tickets database as faithfully as possible. Changing our 
workflow is not a problem if it is for the best, but our tickets are the 
history of the project, we should preserve as much data as possible.


JMarc
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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Pavel Sanda]

On Sun, Dec 06, 2020 at 11:41:53PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> > You did the upgrade to CentOS 6 a while back, didn't you? Obviously, we
> > can't be sure an upgrade to some newer version would go smoothly, but it
> > worked all right last time, yes?
> 
> All I did was some upgrades of the CentOS6 system as it was from the start.
> Now the current is CentOS8. I do not know whether we have to go through
> CentOS7 first.

Word of warning here: AFAIK CentOS7 should be supported till 2024, 
CentOS8 only till the end of 2021 (no I am not joking).
I did not dig into details, but it seems CentOS community decided
to completely change their vision and from the next year starting
with rolling releases (they call it "Steam"); this would be cool
if you like up-to-date software but it's not good for servers.

So one option would be a minimalist one - try whether CentOS7 wont
break much and stay lazy couple more years.
If more drastic changes are necessary it might be better to look
around for distros with longer LTS support (IIRC Ubuntu LTS offer
10 years).

Pavel
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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Thibaut Cuvelier]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 at 19:24, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes 
wrote:

> Le 07/12/2020 à 00:17, Yuriy Skalko a écrit :
> > What about replacing Trac with Gitea? I have very successful experience
> > with it -- simple to install, very fast and lightweight.
>
> It looks nice indeed, although I mostly saw the interface :)
>
> One other issue I see with it is that it means we still administrate our
> server wrt git and tickets. We do not have a server maintainer (unless I
> am dismissing someone? I am not one myself) currently and it kind of
> "just works". At least having a gitlab solution would allow us to choose
> where it is hosted (osuosl has one, actually).
>
> The good point about a self-hosted gitea is that it would be lightweight.
>
> Then we have to see how much of our trac data will be lost in translation.
>

Keeping the data would be a pain point… (By the way, I never suggested
moving away from trac in the first place :P.)

On GitLab.com, you can import "an exported GitLab project", or from
software forges like GitHub or Gitea. https://github.com/tracboat/tracboat
could be a solution to make that GitLab export in the first place. It looks
reasonably easy to use.
In this kind of workflow, I think it would be best to avoid Gitea, to avoid
losing even more data.

By the way, what about Jenkins/CI? GitLab proposes a free service for this,
but only 400 minutes per month (https://about.gitlab.com/pricing/). You can
have more by contacting them:
https://about.gitlab.com/solutions/open-source/join/.

Such a migration would require a lot of discussion, notably about the way
of collaborating to LyX: it would allow doing push requests instead of
sending patches to the mailing list, for instance. I think Guillaume is
already for this change (https://gitlab.com/gadmm).
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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 07/12/2020 à 00:17, Yuriy Skalko a écrit :
What about replacing Trac with Gitea? I have very successful experience 
with it -- simple to install, very fast and lightweight.


It looks nice indeed, although I mostly saw the interface :)

One other issue I see with it is that it means we still administrate our 
server wrt git and tickets. We do not have a server maintainer (unless I 
am dismissing someone? I am not one myself) currently and it kind of 
"just works". At least having a gitlab solution would allow us to choose 
where it is hosted (osuosl has one, actually).


The good point about a self-hosted gitea is that it would be lightweight.

Then we have to see how much of our trac data will be lost in translation.

JMarc
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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Yuriy Skalko]

I would be very happy if we were able to replace trac with something more 
modern. If we cannot do it, it will become urgent soon to upgrade it, and thus 
to upgrade our aging CentOS 6 system (support was only until Nov 30, 2020).


JMarc


What about replacing Trac with Gitea? I have very successful experience 
with it -- simple to install, very fast and lightweight.


But I don't know if it have all now-used features of Trac. Here is 
comparison with alternatives: https://docs.gitea.io/en-us/comparison/


And here I found migration utility from Trac:
https://github.com/stevejefferson/trac2gitea

Yuriy

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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 06/12/2020 à 23:20, Richard Kimberly Heck a écrit :

I would be very happy if we were able to replace trac with something
more modern. If we cannot do it, it will become urgent soon to upgrade
it, and thus to upgrade our aging CentOS 6 system (support was only
until Nov 30, 2020).


You did the upgrade to CentOS 6 a while back, didn't you? Obviously, we
can't be sure an upgrade to some newer version would go smoothly, but it
worked all right last time, yes?


All I did was some upgrades of the CentOS6 system as it was from the 
start. Now the current is CentOS8. I do not know whether we have to go 
through CentOS7 first.


But the worst is probably Trac, which has to go through 0.12->1.0->1.2->1.4.


We could presumably ask the OSU people to take a snapshot before we
attempt the upgrade.


Indeed.

JMarc
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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Richard Kimberly Heck]

On 12/6/20 5:11 PM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> Le 05/12/2020 à 22:41, Thibaut Cuvelier a écrit :
>> On Sat, 5 Dec 2020 at 20:43, Pavel Sanda > > wrote:
>>
>>     On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 07:48:23PM +0100, Thibaut Cuvelier wrote:
>>  > What do you think of it? I already made a quick search in the
>>     mailing list,
>>  > but I did not the topic being discussed.
>>
>>     Looks fine to me as well, though if you don't have strong
>> preference,
>>     gitlab might be ideologically better option :)
>>
>>     It seems you can setup the mirror with 5min update window:
>>    
>> https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/repository/repository_mirroring.html
>>    
>> 
>>
>>
>> To have a larger user base and better performance, GitHub is the
>> better option (more tools work out-of-the-box with it). GitLab has a
>> clunkier interface, in my opinion, but possibly more features than
>> GitHub. Both are good choices, I'd say. If there is a will to replace
>> Trac in the future while keeping a self-hosted solution, then GitLab
>> may be a better choice, because it is open source.
>
> I would be very happy if we were able to replace trac with something
> more modern. If we cannot do it, it will become urgent soon to upgrade
> it, and thus to upgrade our aging CentOS 6 system (support was only
> until Nov 30, 2020).

You did the upgrade to CentOS 6 a while back, didn't you? Obviously, we
can't be sure an upgrade to some newer version would go smoothly, but it
worked all right last time, yes?

We could presumably ask the OSU people to take a snapshot before we
attempt the upgrade.

Riki


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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 05/12/2020 à 22:41, Thibaut Cuvelier a écrit :
On Sat, 5 Dec 2020 at 20:43, Pavel Sanda > wrote:


On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 07:48:23PM +0100, Thibaut Cuvelier wrote:
 > What do you think of it? I already made a quick search in the
mailing list,
 > but I did not the topic being discussed.

Looks fine to me as well, though if you don't have strong preference,
gitlab might be ideologically better option :)

It seems you can setup the mirror with 5min update window:
https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/repository/repository_mirroring.html




To have a larger user base and better performance, GitHub is the better 
option (more tools work out-of-the-box with it). GitLab has a clunkier 
interface, in my opinion, but possibly more features than GitHub. Both 
are good choices, I'd say. If there is a will to replace Trac in the 
future while keeping a self-hosted solution, then GitLab may be a better 
choice, because it is open source.


I would be very happy if we were able to replace trac with something 
more modern. If we cannot do it, it will become urgent soon to upgrade 
it, and thus to upgrade our aging CentOS 6 system (support was only 
until Nov 30, 2020).


JMarc
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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Yu Jin]

Am So., 6. Dez. 2020 um 00:58 Uhr schrieb Joel Kulesza :

> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 12:51 PM Scott Kostyshak  wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 08:43:03PM +0100, Pavel Sanda wrote:
>> > On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 07:48:23PM +0100, Thibaut Cuvelier wrote:
>> > > What do you think of it? I already made a quick search in the mailing
>> list,
>> > > but I did not the topic being discussed.
>> >
>> > Looks fine to me as well, though if you don't have strong preference,
>> > gitlab might be ideologically better option :)
>>
>> +1 I would also prefer GitLab.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>
> I've had this site [https://gitlab.com/jkulesza/lyx] acting as a mirror
> for my own needs for a while, in case someone would like to see how it
> looks/feels.
>

I browse in https://git.lyx.org/ when I need to.
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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Joel Kulesza]

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 12:51 PM Scott Kostyshak  wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 08:43:03PM +0100, Pavel Sanda wrote:
> > On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 07:48:23PM +0100, Thibaut Cuvelier wrote:
> > > What do you think of it? I already made a quick search in the mailing
> list,
> > > but I did not the topic being discussed.
> >
> > Looks fine to me as well, though if you don't have strong preference,
> > gitlab might be ideologically better option :)
>
> +1 I would also prefer GitLab.
>
> Scott
>

I've had this site [https://gitlab.com/jkulesza/lyx] acting as a mirror for
my own needs for a while, in case someone would like to see how it
looks/feels.

- Joel
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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Pavel Sanda]

On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 10:41:26PM +0100, Thibaut Cuvelier wrote:
> To have a larger user base and better performance, GitHub is the better
> option (more tools work out-of-the-box with it). GitLab has a clunkier
> interface, in my opinion, but possibly more features than GitHub. Both are
> good choices, I'd say. If there is a will to replace Trac in the future
> while keeping a self-hosted solution, then GitLab may be a better choice,
> because it is open source.
> 
> From an ideological point of view, I'd rather go with something else than
> Git to start with :p (Darcs/Pijul and their carefully designed patch
> theory).

Feel free to mirror it in whatever system you prefer :) I honestly do not
understand why the desire to call it 'official', it gives you nothing 
more compared to the situation you publicly mirrored lyx on github/gitlab
on your own except of some burden of responsibilty to keep it maintained...

Pavel
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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Thibaut Cuvelier]

On Sat, 5 Dec 2020 at 20:43, Pavel Sanda  wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 07:48:23PM +0100, Thibaut Cuvelier wrote:
> > What do you think of it? I already made a quick search in the mailing
> list,
> > but I did not the topic being discussed.
>
> Looks fine to me as well, though if you don't have strong preference,
> gitlab might be ideologically better option :)
>
> It seems you can setup the mirror with 5min update window:
>
> https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/repository/repository_mirroring.html
>

To have a larger user base and better performance, GitHub is the better
option (more tools work out-of-the-box with it). GitLab has a clunkier
interface, in my opinion, but possibly more features than GitHub. Both are
good choices, I'd say. If there is a will to replace Trac in the future
while keeping a self-hosted solution, then GitLab may be a better choice,
because it is open source.

>From an ideological point of view, I'd rather go with something else than
Git to start with :p (Darcs/Pijul and their carefully designed patch
theory).
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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Yuriy Skalko]

Who runs that site? Does it only do this for github or other sites, too?

Riki


Some Silicon Valley startup :) Gitlab is supported too, so it will be 
usable for the forthcoming official mirror there.


Yuriy
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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Richard Kimberly Heck]

On 12/5/20 2:43 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 07:48:23PM +0100, Thibaut Cuvelier wrote:
>> What do you think of it? I already made a quick search in the mailing list,
>> but I did not the topic being discussed.
> Looks fine to me as well, though if you don't have strong preference,
> gitlab might be ideologically better option :)

Yes, that's true. I tend to forget which is which.

Riki


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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Richard Kimberly Heck]

On 12/5/20 3:11 PM, Yuriy Skalko wrote:
> This is significantly better than browsing code on GitHub directly:
> https://sourcegraph.com/github.com/cburschka/lyx

Who runs that site? Does it only do this for github or other sites, too?

Riki


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An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Yuriy Skalko]

This is significantly better than browsing code on GitHub directly:
https://sourcegraph.com/github.com/cburschka/lyx

Also here is fast site with Doxygen documentation (only for stable branch):
https://fossies.org/dox/lyx-2.3.6/


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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 08:43:03PM +0100, Pavel Sanda wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 07:48:23PM +0100, Thibaut Cuvelier wrote:
> > What do you think of it? I already made a quick search in the mailing list,
> > but I did not the topic being discussed.
> 
> Looks fine to me as well, though if you don't have strong preference,
> gitlab might be ideologically better option :)

+1 I would also prefer GitLab.

Scott


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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Pavel Sanda]

On Sat, Dec 05, 2020 at 07:48:23PM +0100, Thibaut Cuvelier wrote:
> What do you think of it? I already made a quick search in the mailing list,
> but I did not the topic being discussed.

Looks fine to me as well, though if you don't have strong preference,
gitlab might be ideologically better option :)

It seems you can setup the mirror with 5min update window:
https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/repository/repository_mirroring.html

Pavel
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Re: An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Richard Kimberly Heck]

On 12/5/20 1:48 PM, Thibaut Cuvelier wrote:
> Dear list,
>
> I often find myself wandering through the source code of LyX. I can do
> that with my IDE, but it often breaks my flow of thoughts (e.g., I'm
> just checking how one specific component works, while I'm already
> working on a few files that use that module). That's why I usually try
> to use either LyX's Trac (which is very slow) or an unofficial GitHub
> repo (like https://github.com/cburschka/lyx
> <https://github.com/cburschka/lyx>).
>
> Would it be possible to have an official GitHub /mirror/ for LyX? I'm
> not proposing at all to switch all development to GitHub (you could
> not forbid force-push on the repo anymore, for instance), only to have
> a read-only copy of the Git repo.
>
> Read-only would mean that issues and pull requests would be completely
> disabled and/or ignored (you can add a message when someone starts to
> write an issue or a pull request to warn that this is not a way of
> collaborating to the project, suggesting other ways of reaching the
> developers). This is how Qt works: https://github.com/qt
> <https://github.com/qt>
>
> There is already https://github.com/cburschka/lyx
> <https://github.com/cburschka/lyx>, but the problem is that it is not
> official, and you don't really know how often it is updated. For an
> official mirror, I suppose it would be easy to have an update of the
> mirror after every push (although I'm not really knowledgeable about
> this kind of use of Git).
>
> (On a more practical side, the "lyx" username is already taken, but
> not yet "lyx-project": https://github.com/lyx-project
> <https://github.com/lyx-project>.)
>
> The benefits of such a mirror would be two-fold:
> - help people wander through the source code (mostly developers)
> - make the project easier to find, as GitHub is the /de facto/
> software hub right now (mostly users)
>
> What do you think of it? I already made a quick search in the mailing
> list, but I did not the topic being discussed.

I think this would be fine. It is indeed painful to search the source on
trac.

Riki



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An official GitHub mirror for LyX?

[Thibaut Cuvelier]

Dear list,

I often find myself wandering through the source code of LyX. I can do that
with my IDE, but it often breaks my flow of thoughts (e.g., I'm just
checking how one specific component works, while I'm already working on a
few files that use that module). That's why I usually try to use either
LyX's Trac (which is very slow) or an unofficial GitHub repo (like
https://github.com/cburschka/lyx).

Would it be possible to have an official GitHub *mirror* for LyX? I'm not
proposing at all to switch all development to GitHub (you could not forbid
force-push on the repo anymore, for instance), only to have a read-only
copy of the Git repo.

Read-only would mean that issues and pull requests would be completely
disabled and/or ignored (you can add a message when someone starts to write
an issue or a pull request to warn that this is not a way of collaborating
to the project, suggesting other ways of reaching the developers). This is
how Qt works: https://github.com/qt

There is already https://github.com/cburschka/lyx, but the problem is that
it is not official, and you don't really know how often it is updated. For
an official mirror, I suppose it would be easy to have an update of the
mirror after every push (although I'm not really knowledgeable about this
kind of use of Git).

(On a more practical side, the "lyx" username is already taken, but not yet
"lyx-project": https://github.com/lyx-project.)

The benefits of such a mirror would be two-fold:
- help people wander through the source code (mostly developers)
- make the project easier to find, as GitHub is the *de facto* software hub
right now (mostly users)

What do you think of it? I already made a quick search in the mailing list,
but I did not the topic being discussed.
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