Re: ASCII considered obscure

[John Coppens]

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:55:24 +0200
Helge Hafting [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Reuben Thomas wrote:
  First, in most programs, Text is a file type listed on the save
  dialog, not under Export, which tends to be reserved for
  non-editable formats such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most
  word processors. Hence, she was confused because there was no option
  in Save as to change the file type to text.
  
 Well, I wouldn't want any document types under save as.
 Word processors that offer save as...document type tend to fully
 support working with those document types, and remember to keep
 using that type for subsequent saves. Lyx works with lyx documents, I
 don't see any other choices there.
 
 Export means to create a file in a different format for _some other_
 software to use. I.e. lyx won't necessarily support the exported
 file in any way.  Which is true for things like pdf.

I intuitively feel the 'export' option is not necessary. Why not permit
selecting the destination type, in the normal 'save as...' option, and -
if necessary - add a warning that the working document remains in .lyx?
(or add a warning in the 'save as...' dialog box itself)

John

Re: ASCII considered obscure

[John Coppens]

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:55:24 +0200
Helge Hafting [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Reuben Thomas wrote:
  First, in most programs, Text is a file type listed on the save
  dialog, not under Export, which tends to be reserved for
  non-editable formats such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most
  word processors. Hence, she was confused because there was no option
  in Save as to change the file type to text.
  
 Well, I wouldn't want any document types under save as.
 Word processors that offer save as...document type tend to fully
 support working with those document types, and remember to keep
 using that type for subsequent saves. Lyx works with lyx documents, I
 don't see any other choices there.
 
 Export means to create a file in a different format for _some other_
 software to use. I.e. lyx won't necessarily support the exported
 file in any way.  Which is true for things like pdf.

I intuitively feel the 'export' option is not necessary. Why not permit
selecting the destination type, in the normal 'save as...' option, and -
if necessary - add a warning that the working document remains in .lyx?
(or add a warning in the 'save as...' dialog box itself)

John

Re: "ASCII" considered obscure

[John Coppens]

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:55:24 +0200
Helge Hafting <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Reuben Thomas wrote:
> > First, in most programs, "Text" is a file type listed on the save
> > dialog, not under "Export", which tends to be reserved for
> > non-editable formats such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most
> > word processors. Hence, she was confused because there was no option
> > in "Save as" to change the file type to text.
> > 
> Well, I wouldn't want any document types under "save as".
> Word processors that offer "save as...document type" tend to fully
> support working with those document types, and remember to keep
> using that type for subsequent saves. Lyx works with lyx documents, I
> don't see any other choices there.
> 
> Export means to create a file in a different format for _some other_
> software to use. I.e. lyx won't necessarily support the exported
> file in any way.  Which is true for things like pdf.

I intuitively feel the 'export' option is not necessary. Why not permit
selecting the destination type, in the normal 'save as...' option, and -
if necessary - add a warning that the working document remains in .lyx?
(or add a warning in the 'save as...' dialog box itself)

John

Re: ASCII considered obscure

[Helge Hafting]

Reuben Thomas wrote:
When importing text into an OpenOffice document, I suggested to a naïve
user that she export the LyX document as text. She had two problems, both
of which merit attention to LyX's menus, I think.
First, in most programs, Text is a file type listed on the save dialog,
not under Export, which tends to be reserved for non-editable formats
such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most word processors. Hence,
she was confused because there was no option in Save as to change the
file type to text.
Well, I wouldn't want any document types under save as.
Word processors that offer save as...document type tend to fully
support working with those document types, and remember to keep
using that type for subsequent saves. Lyx works with lyx documents, I
don't see any other choices there.
Export means to create a file in a different format for _some other_
software to use. I.e. lyx won't necessarily support the exported
file in any way.  Which is true for things like pdf.
Secondly, and much easier to fix, she then said but there's no option to
export as text. She didn't know that ASCII means plain text. I suggest
the menu entry be changed to say Plain text or similar, again, in line
with most wordprocessors.
I agree to this, plain text is a better word here.

Helge Hafting

Re: ASCII considered obscure

[Helge Hafting]

Reuben Thomas wrote:
When importing text into an OpenOffice document, I suggested to a naïve
user that she export the LyX document as text. She had two problems, both
of which merit attention to LyX's menus, I think.
First, in most programs, Text is a file type listed on the save dialog,
not under Export, which tends to be reserved for non-editable formats
such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most word processors. Hence,
she was confused because there was no option in Save as to change the
file type to text.
Well, I wouldn't want any document types under save as.
Word processors that offer save as...document type tend to fully
support working with those document types, and remember to keep
using that type for subsequent saves. Lyx works with lyx documents, I
don't see any other choices there.
Export means to create a file in a different format for _some other_
software to use. I.e. lyx won't necessarily support the exported
file in any way.  Which is true for things like pdf.
Secondly, and much easier to fix, she then said but there's no option to
export as text. She didn't know that ASCII means plain text. I suggest
the menu entry be changed to say Plain text or similar, again, in line
with most wordprocessors.
I agree to this, plain text is a better word here.

Helge Hafting

Re: "ASCII" considered obscure

[Helge Hafting]

Reuben Thomas wrote:
When importing text into an OpenOffice document, I suggested to a naïve
user that she export the LyX document as text. She had two problems, both
of which merit attention to LyX's menus, I think.
First, in most programs, "Text" is a file type listed on the save dialog,
not under "Export", which tends to be reserved for non-editable formats
such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most word processors. Hence,
she was confused because there was no option in "Save as" to change the
file type to text.
Well, I wouldn't want any document types under "save as".
Word processors that offer "save as...document type" tend to fully
support working with those document types, and remember to keep
using that type for subsequent saves. Lyx works with lyx documents, I
don't see any other choices there.
Export means to create a file in a different format for _some other_
software to use. I.e. lyx won't necessarily support the exported
file in any way.  Which is true for things like pdf.
Secondly, and much easier to fix, she then said "but there's no option to
export as text". She didn't know that ASCII means plain text. I suggest
the menu entry be changed to say "Plain text" or similar, again, in line
with most wordprocessors.
I agree to this, "plain text" is a better word here.

Helge Hafting

ASCII considered obscure

[Reuben Thomas]

When importing text into an OpenOffice document, I suggested to a naïve
user that she export the LyX document as text. She had two problems, both
of which merit attention to LyX's menus, I think.

First, in most programs, Text is a file type listed on the save dialog,
not under Export, which tends to be reserved for non-editable formats
such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most word processors. Hence,
she was confused because there was no option in Save as to change the
file type to text.

Secondly, and much easier to fix, she then said but there's no option to
export as text. She didn't know that ASCII means plain text. I suggest
the menu entry be changed to say Plain text or similar, again, in line
with most wordprocessors.

-- 
http://rrt.sc3d.org/ | sad, a.  the efforts of musical debutantes (Bierce)

Re: ASCII considered obscure

[John Levon]

On Sun, Apr 25, 2004 at 10:25:26PM +0200, Reuben Thomas wrote:

 First, in most programs, Text is a file type listed on the save dialog,
 not under Export, which tends to be reserved for non-editable formats
 such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most word processors. Hence,
 she was confused because there was no option in Save as to change the
 file type to text.

I've wanted this for a while.

 Secondly, and much easier to fix, she then said but there's no option to
 export as text. She didn't know that ASCII means plain text. I suggest
 the menu entry be changed to say Plain text or similar, again, in line
 with most wordprocessors.

Plain Text is a good idea. File a bug.

john

Re: ASCII considered obscure

[robin]

John Levon wrote:
On Sun, Apr 25, 2004 at 10:25:26PM +0200, Reuben Thomas wrote:


First, in most programs, Text is a file type listed on the save dialog,
not under Export, which tends to be reserved for non-editable formats
such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most word processors. Hence,
she was confused because there was no option in Save as to change the
file type to text.


I've wanted this for a while.


Secondly, and much easier to fix, she then said but there's no option to
export as text. She didn't know that ASCII means plain text. I suggest
the menu entry be changed to say Plain text or similar, again, in line
with most wordprocessors.


Plain Text is a good idea. File a bug.

Reluctantly, I agree. These days knowing what ASCII means is equivalent 
to knowing what a bulletin board is, or having worn flared trousers in 
the 1970s.

Robin

--
If the lion could speak, we would not understand it.
- Wittgenstein
Robin Turner
IDMYO
Bilkent Universitesi
Ankara 06533
Turkey
www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin

Re: ASCII considered obscure

[Marc Jeffrey Driftmeyer]

We call them there flared trousers as either flared jeans or bell-bottoms.

-Marc

On Sunday 25 April 2004 16:20, robin wrote:
 John Levon wrote:
  On Sun, Apr 25, 2004 at 10:25:26PM +0200, Reuben Thomas wrote:
 First, in most programs, Text is a file type listed on the save dialog,
 not under Export, which tends to be reserved for non-editable formats
 such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most word processors. Hence,
 she was confused because there was no option in Save as to change the
 file type to text.
 
  I've wanted this for a while.
 
 Secondly, and much easier to fix, she then said but there's no option to
 export as text. She didn't know that ASCII means plain text. I suggest
 the menu entry be changed to say Plain text or similar, again, in line
 with most wordprocessors.
 
  Plain Text is a good idea. File a bug.

 Reluctantly, I agree. These days knowing what ASCII means is equivalent
 to knowing what a bulletin board is, or having worn flared trousers in
 the 1970s.

 Robin

ASCII considered obscure

[Reuben Thomas]

When importing text into an OpenOffice document, I suggested to a naïve
user that she export the LyX document as text. She had two problems, both
of which merit attention to LyX's menus, I think.

First, in most programs, Text is a file type listed on the save dialog,
not under Export, which tends to be reserved for non-editable formats
such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most word processors. Hence,
she was confused because there was no option in Save as to change the
file type to text.

Secondly, and much easier to fix, she then said but there's no option to
export as text. She didn't know that ASCII means plain text. I suggest
the menu entry be changed to say Plain text or similar, again, in line
with most wordprocessors.

-- 
http://rrt.sc3d.org/ | sad, a.  the efforts of musical debutantes (Bierce)

Re: ASCII considered obscure

[John Levon]

On Sun, Apr 25, 2004 at 10:25:26PM +0200, Reuben Thomas wrote:

 First, in most programs, Text is a file type listed on the save dialog,
 not under Export, which tends to be reserved for non-editable formats
 such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most word processors. Hence,
 she was confused because there was no option in Save as to change the
 file type to text.

I've wanted this for a while.

 Secondly, and much easier to fix, she then said but there's no option to
 export as text. She didn't know that ASCII means plain text. I suggest
 the menu entry be changed to say Plain text or similar, again, in line
 with most wordprocessors.

Plain Text is a good idea. File a bug.

john

Re: ASCII considered obscure

[robin]

John Levon wrote:
On Sun, Apr 25, 2004 at 10:25:26PM +0200, Reuben Thomas wrote:


First, in most programs, Text is a file type listed on the save dialog,
not under Export, which tends to be reserved for non-editable formats
such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most word processors. Hence,
she was confused because there was no option in Save as to change the
file type to text.


I've wanted this for a while.


Secondly, and much easier to fix, she then said but there's no option to
export as text. She didn't know that ASCII means plain text. I suggest
the menu entry be changed to say Plain text or similar, again, in line
with most wordprocessors.


Plain Text is a good idea. File a bug.

Reluctantly, I agree. These days knowing what ASCII means is equivalent 
to knowing what a bulletin board is, or having worn flared trousers in 
the 1970s.

Robin

--
If the lion could speak, we would not understand it.
- Wittgenstein
Robin Turner
IDMYO
Bilkent Universitesi
Ankara 06533
Turkey
www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin

Re: ASCII considered obscure

[Marc Jeffrey Driftmeyer]

We call them there flared trousers as either flared jeans or bell-bottoms.

-Marc

On Sunday 25 April 2004 16:20, robin wrote:
 John Levon wrote:
  On Sun, Apr 25, 2004 at 10:25:26PM +0200, Reuben Thomas wrote:
 First, in most programs, Text is a file type listed on the save dialog,
 not under Export, which tends to be reserved for non-editable formats
 such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most word processors. Hence,
 she was confused because there was no option in Save as to change the
 file type to text.
 
  I've wanted this for a while.
 
 Secondly, and much easier to fix, she then said but there's no option to
 export as text. She didn't know that ASCII means plain text. I suggest
 the menu entry be changed to say Plain text or similar, again, in line
 with most wordprocessors.
 
  Plain Text is a good idea. File a bug.

 Reluctantly, I agree. These days knowing what ASCII means is equivalent
 to knowing what a bulletin board is, or having worn flared trousers in
 the 1970s.

 Robin

"ASCII" considered obscure

[Reuben Thomas]

When importing text into an OpenOffice document, I suggested to a naïve
user that she export the LyX document as text. She had two problems, both
of which merit attention to LyX's menus, I think.

First, in most programs, "Text" is a file type listed on the save dialog,
not under "Export", which tends to be reserved for non-editable formats
such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most word processors. Hence,
she was confused because there was no option in "Save as" to change the
file type to text.

Secondly, and much easier to fix, she then said "but there's no option to
export as text". She didn't know that ASCII means plain text. I suggest
the menu entry be changed to say "Plain text" or similar, again, in line
with most wordprocessors.

-- 
http://rrt.sc3d.org/ | sad, a.  the efforts of musical debutantes (Bierce)

Re: "ASCII" considered obscure

[John Levon]

On Sun, Apr 25, 2004 at 10:25:26PM +0200, Reuben Thomas wrote:

> First, in most programs, "Text" is a file type listed on the save dialog,
> not under "Export", which tends to be reserved for non-editable formats
> such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most word processors. Hence,
> she was confused because there was no option in "Save as" to change the
> file type to text.

I've wanted this for a while.

> Secondly, and much easier to fix, she then said "but there's no option to
> export as text". She didn't know that ASCII means plain text. I suggest
> the menu entry be changed to say "Plain text" or similar, again, in line
> with most wordprocessors.

"Plain Text" is a good idea. File a bug.

john

Re: "ASCII" considered obscure

[robin]

John Levon wrote:
On Sun, Apr 25, 2004 at 10:25:26PM +0200, Reuben Thomas wrote:


First, in most programs, "Text" is a file type listed on the save dialog,
not under "Export", which tends to be reserved for non-editable formats
such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most word processors. Hence,
she was confused because there was no option in "Save as" to change the
file type to text.


I've wanted this for a while.


Secondly, and much easier to fix, she then said "but there's no option to
export as text". She didn't know that ASCII means plain text. I suggest
the menu entry be changed to say "Plain text" or similar, again, in line
with most wordprocessors.


"Plain Text" is a good idea. File a bug.

Reluctantly, I agree. These days knowing what ASCII means is equivalent 
to knowing what a bulletin board is, or having worn flared trousers in 
the 1970s.

Robin

--
"If the lion could speak, we would not understand it."
- Wittgenstein
Robin Turner
IDMYO
Bilkent Universitesi
Ankara 06533
Turkey
www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin

Re: "ASCII" considered obscure

[Marc Jeffrey Driftmeyer]

We call them there flared trousers as either flared jeans or "bell-bottoms."

-Marc

On Sunday 25 April 2004 16:20, robin wrote:
> John Levon wrote:
> > On Sun, Apr 25, 2004 at 10:25:26PM +0200, Reuben Thomas wrote:
> >>First, in most programs, "Text" is a file type listed on the save dialog,
> >>not under "Export", which tends to be reserved for non-editable formats
> >>such as PDF. This is certainly the case in most word processors. Hence,
> >>she was confused because there was no option in "Save as" to change the
> >>file type to text.
> >
> > I've wanted this for a while.
> >
> >>Secondly, and much easier to fix, she then said "but there's no option to
> >>export as text". She didn't know that ASCII means plain text. I suggest
> >>the menu entry be changed to say "Plain text" or similar, again, in line
> >>with most wordprocessors.
> >
> > "Plain Text" is a good idea. File a bug.
>
> Reluctantly, I agree. These days knowing what ASCII means is equivalent
> to knowing what a bulletin board is, or having worn flared trousers in
> the 1970s.
>
> Robin