Re: Fragility

[Guillaume Munch]

Le 18/11/2016 à 12:36, F M Salter a écrit :

I would like to raise a question for everyone about what I am
describing as fragility in LyX.

I use Lyx as a method of recording my own thinking on various
subjects including mathematical analyses, a tool to annotate material
(usually academic papers which can not be annotated directly) and to
prepare papers for publication.  I feel that the fragility I am
detecting may be increasing and would then be attributibe directly to
LyX.  However, I am increasingly using more advanced techniques and
these may be the cause of the events which am noting rather than with
LyX itself.




Dear Frank,

My recommendation is to take the time to help with the detailed
recording of the bugs you experience, like you have begun to do, on the
bug tracker at http://www.lyx.org/trac/wiki/BugTrackerHome. I have the
same experience that with more advanced use, one sees more bugs. This is
surely because lyx allows many different uses, including ones not
thought about in advance by developers. Sometimes bugs also appear
with new releases. Surely, with everybody using lyx differently, it is
hard to get proper testing before a release. I started reporting bugs a
few years ago, and many have been fixed since. Patience pays off.

Guillaume

Re: Fragility

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 20:45:11 + (UTC)
Guenter Milde <mi...@users.sf.net> wrote:

> On 2016-11-18, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 11:36:08 +
> > F M Salter <fmsal...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:  
> 
> >> I would like to raise a question for everyone about what I am
> >> describing as fragility in LyX.  
> 
> >> I use Lyx as a method of recording my own thinking on various
> >> subjects including mathematical analyses, a tool to annotate
> >> material (usually academic papers which can not be annotated
> >> directly) and to prepare papers for publication.  I feel that the
> >> fragility I am detecting may be increasing and would then be
> >> attributibe directly to LyX.  However, I am increasingly using
> >> more advanced techniques and these may be the cause of the events
> >> which am noting rather than with LyX itself.  
> 
> > [snip]  
> 
> >> Finally, am I missing anything glaringly obvious to you out
> >> there?  
> 
> > Yes. You're using the wrong tool for recording all thoughts. At the
> > top level, you should be using an outline processor: I recommend
> > VimOutliner.  
> 
> ...
> 
> Is this also suited to write mathematical analysis fast and
> good-looking???
> 
> Günter

HECKNO!!!

Remember I said "At the top level?" The beauty of VimOutliner is that
with an easy hotkey it can spawn LyX editing your math analysis, or a
music editor editing your new song, or Inkscape editing your new
logo, and when you're brainstorming, you're using VimOutliner itself
to host your idea hierarchy in realtime. With VimOutliner at the top
level, you're always using the right tool, and all your knowledge is in
a single tree, easily drilled down to whatever you need at the time.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2016 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business
http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz

Re: Fragility

[Guenter Milde]

On 2016-11-18, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 11:36:08 +
> F M Salter <fmsal...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>> I would like to raise a question for everyone about what I am
>> describing as fragility in LyX.

>> I use Lyx as a method of recording my own thinking on various
>> subjects including mathematical analyses, a tool to annotate material
>> (usually academic papers which can not be annotated directly) and to
>> prepare papers for publication.  I feel that the fragility I am
>> detecting may be increasing and would then be attributibe directly to
>> LyX.  However, I am increasingly using more advanced techniques and
>> these may be the cause of the events which am noting rather than with
>> LyX itself.

> [snip]

>> Finally, am I missing anything glaringly obvious to you out there?

> Yes. You're using the wrong tool for recording all thoughts. At the top
> level, you should be using an outline processor: I recommend
> VimOutliner.

...

Is this also suited to write mathematical analysis fast and good-looking???

Günter

Re: Fragility

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016, Steve Litt wrote:


Yes. You're using the wrong tool for recording all thoughts. At the top
level, you should be using an outline processor: I recommend VimOutliner.


  Or, emacs outline mode,

  And, there are other tools that might be more attractive to you. For
example, TreeLine  (which might be a
really good tool for you), and KeepNote . There are
also several flavors of mind-mapping tools but I've never tried any of them.
I do you TreeLine and KeepNote on a regular basis.

Carpe weekend,

Rich

Re: Fragility

[Steve Litt]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2016 11:36:08 +
F M Salter <fmsal...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> I would like to raise a question for everyone about what I am
> describing as fragility in LyX.
> 
> I use Lyx as a method of recording my own thinking on various
> subjects including mathematical analyses, a tool to annotate material
> (usually academic papers which can not be annotated directly) and to
> prepare papers for publication.  I feel that the fragility I am
> detecting may be increasing and would then be attributibe directly to
> LyX.  However, I am increasingly using more advanced techniques and
> these may be the cause of the events which am noting rather than with
> LyX itself.

[snip]
> 
> Finally, am I missing anything glaringly obvious to you out there?

Yes. You're using the wrong tool for recording all thoughts. At the top
level, you should be using an outline processor: I recommend
VimOutliner.

Outline processors are remarkably freeform: you can include
bibliography entries, links to other outlines and to web addresses, and
even LyX documents within the outline processor.

Because outlines can link to other outlines, you can have a single
outline be the "root of all my knowledge", and link to specific
outlines for specific knowledge areas or chunks.

Here are some essays I've written about outlining:

* http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/199911/199911.htm

* http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/presentations/leap_vo/leap_vo.otl

* http://www.troubleshooters.com/lpm/200310/200310.htm

HTH,
 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2016 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business
http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz

Re: Fragility

[Richard Heck]

On 11/18/2016 06:36 AM, F M Salter wrote:
> Examples:
>
> I was annotating a file using the PDF comments module.  The
> pdfmarkup annotations were working correctly, visible in the pdf
> output.  I edited some text.  In subsequent version of this document
> no markups are visible in the  pdf output.  I have more than forty
> similar files all producing the expected annotated results.
>

Without a concrete example, it is difficult to know what would cause
this. Similar problems, though, have sometimes been caused by the
cut-and-paste of illegal characters, which LaTeX then chokes on. But, as
I say, it's hard to know. The way to proceed (and to help us find and
fix the bug, if such there is) is to start eliminating various parts of
the file and see if the problem remains. I.e., if you delete the entire
second half, do you still see this problem? What about the first half?
Continuing to do this is known as "bisecting". It helps localize the
problem, at which point it can be addressed.

> Tables:  With formal tables the order of editing can produce
> different outcomes.  I have worked round  this problem by starting a
> completely new table as the subsequent editing of erroneous tables has
> produced  variable,  unexpected and inappropriate results.
>

Here again, related problems have sometimes been reported, but this is
too abstract to do anything with. The table code is complex, possibly
too complex. It's not clear to me that it is really a good idea to try
to do really complicated table stuff in LyX itself.

> hyperref:unticking hyperref, after its having been set,
> produces a number of error messages and output with "hyperrefImplicit
> mode ON; LaTeX internals redefined" on the first page numbered 1. The
> rest of the document starts on the page numbered 2!
>

In general, I do not see this. If it's happening in a particular
document, then I'd want to know more about the details of that document.
Again, bisecting may help.

> biblatex with biber: Possibly it is to be expected to be more
> delicate.  However, with a new pdf requiring more than 20 seconds to
> be produced, human error is likely and can lead to an inability to
> produce any further pdf output.  Solution is close down LyX and restart.
>

LyX doesn't support this natively. It's definitely an "advanced"
technique, meaning that one should indeed expect it to be more delicate.

Richard

Fragility

[F M Salter]

I would like to raise a question for everyone about what I am
describing as fragility in LyX.

I use Lyx as a method of recording my own thinking on various
subjects including mathematical analyses, a tool to annotate material
(usually academic papers which can not be annotated directly) and to
prepare papers for publication.  I feel that the fragility I am
detecting may be increasing and would then be attributibe directly to
LyX.  However, I am increasingly using more advanced techniques and
these may be the cause of the events which am noting rather than with
LyX itself.

The number of "strange occurrences" has made me ask if any of you
have had any similar experiences, which appear inexplicable but hardly
worthy of raising as a particular concern on this forum.  Most of these
I am attempting to describe have arisen whilst simply editing text. 
With a single backup file attempts to return to an earlier unaffected
version are thwarted.

Examples:

I was annotating a file using the PDF comments module.  The
pdfmarkup annotations were working correctly, visible in the pdf
output.  I edited some text.  In subsequent version of this document no
markups are visible in the  pdf output.  I have more than forty similar
files all producing the expected annotated results.

Tables:  With formal tables the order of editing can produce
different outcomes.  I have worked round  this problem by starting a
completely new table as the subsequent editing of erroneous tables has
produced  variable,  unexpected and inappropriate results.

hyperref:unticking hyperref, after its having been set, produces
a number of error messages and output with "hyperrefImplicit mode ON;
LaTeX internals redefined" on the first page numbered 1. The rest of the
document starts on the page numbered 2!

biblatex with biber: Possibly it is to be expected to be more
delicate.  However, with a new pdf requiring more than 20 seconds to be
produced, human error is likely and can lead to an inability to produce
any further pdf output.  Solution is close down LyX and restart.

Questions:

Am I alone in these experiences?Does anyone have the same or
similar to recorrd?

Is there enough information to help the developers determine the
nature of the problems and their solutions?

Finally, am I missing anything glaringly obvious to you out there?

Regards

Frank Salter