Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Tommaso Cucinotta]

On 04/11/13 16:44, Nico Williams wrote:
 Hi, this is pretty awesome indeed!
 
 Would it be possible to do somethin OTR-like (in the sense of hiding
 extra data) for exchanging cursor movement operations / cursor
 location, and changes (typing, ...)?  That would make it possible to
 collaboratively edit LyX docs.

The idea of a collaborative editor had been proposed as one of the
GSoC projects this year

  http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc10

but unfortunately it was not selected at the end.

There's been quite some discussion on the ML about how to realize it, e.g. in:

  http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org/msg178180.html

or other threads with GSoC applicant students. Also, the patch available at:

  http://www.lyx.org/trac/attachment/ticket/7964/lyx-collaborate-v4.patch

see also the video at

  http://retis.sssup.it/~tommaso/lyx-collaborate.ogv

was actually a very rough sketch of exchanging information on cursor movements,
instantiating a Buffer with multiple remote views, and sending back and forth
all editing LFUNs, but the prototype also highlighted that LyX would require
non-negligible internal relifts, in order to support that properly.
Perhaps it might be worthwhile to follow up and re-propose the project for a
possible GSoC'14 ?

On the other hand, the LyX Chat (also proposed as GSoC project) was way simpler,
both from a conceptual and a usability viewpoint, and I think it really mixes
seamlessly with XMPP and other chat clients. In other words, I see the chat
as an easy add-on that might constitute another cool and advertisable feature
of LyX helping to spread the word and widen the users community :-)

T.

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Tommaso Cucinotta]

On 04/11/13 16:44, Nico Williams wrote:
 Hi, this is pretty awesome indeed!
 
 Would it be possible to do somethin OTR-like (in the sense of hiding
 extra data) for exchanging cursor movement operations / cursor
 location, and changes (typing, ...)?  That would make it possible to
 collaboratively edit LyX docs.

The idea of a collaborative editor had been proposed as one of the
GSoC projects this year

  http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc10

but unfortunately it was not selected at the end.

There's been quite some discussion on the ML about how to realize it, e.g. in:

  http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org/msg178180.html

or other threads with GSoC applicant students. Also, the patch available at:

  http://www.lyx.org/trac/attachment/ticket/7964/lyx-collaborate-v4.patch

see also the video at

  http://retis.sssup.it/~tommaso/lyx-collaborate.ogv

was actually a very rough sketch of exchanging information on cursor movements,
instantiating a Buffer with multiple remote views, and sending back and forth
all editing LFUNs, but the prototype also highlighted that LyX would require
non-negligible internal relifts, in order to support that properly.
Perhaps it might be worthwhile to follow up and re-propose the project for a
possible GSoC'14 ?

On the other hand, the LyX Chat (also proposed as GSoC project) was way simpler,
both from a conceptual and a usability viewpoint, and I think it really mixes
seamlessly with XMPP and other chat clients. In other words, I see the chat
as an easy add-on that might constitute another cool and advertisable feature
of LyX helping to spread the word and widen the users community :-)

T.

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Tommaso Cucinotta]

On 04/11/13 16:44, Nico Williams wrote:
> Hi, this is pretty awesome indeed!
> 
> Would it be possible to do somethin OTR-like (in the sense of hiding
> extra data) for exchanging cursor movement operations / cursor
> location, and changes (typing, ...)?  That would make it possible to
> collaboratively edit LyX docs.

The idea of a collaborative editor had been proposed as one of the
GSoC projects this year

  http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc10

but unfortunately it was not selected at the end.

There's been quite some discussion on the ML about how to realize it, e.g. in:

  http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org/msg178180.html

or other threads with GSoC applicant students. Also, the patch available at:

  http://www.lyx.org/trac/attachment/ticket/7964/lyx-collaborate-v4.patch

see also the video at

  http://retis.sssup.it/~tommaso/lyx-collaborate.ogv

was actually a very rough sketch of exchanging information on cursor movements,
instantiating a Buffer with multiple remote views, and sending back and forth
all editing LFUNs, but the prototype also highlighted that LyX would require
non-negligible internal relifts, in order to support that properly.
Perhaps it might be worthwhile to follow up and re-propose the project for a
possible GSoC'14 ?

On the other hand, the LyX Chat (also proposed as GSoC project) was way simpler,
both from a conceptual and a usability viewpoint, and I think it really mixes
seamlessly with XMPP and other chat clients. In other words, I see the chat
as an easy add-on that might constitute another cool and advertisable feature
of LyX helping to spread the word and widen the users community :-)

T.

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Nico Williams]

Hi, this is pretty awesome indeed!

Would it be possible to do somethin OTR-like (in the sense of hiding
extra data) for exchanging cursor movement operations / cursor
location, and changes (typing, ...)?  That would make it possible to
collaboratively edit LyX docs.

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Nico Williams]

Hi, this is pretty awesome indeed!

Would it be possible to do somethin OTR-like (in the sense of hiding
extra data) for exchanging cursor movement operations / cursor
location, and changes (typing, ...)?  That would make it possible to
collaboratively edit LyX docs.

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Nico Williams]

Hi, this is pretty awesome indeed!

Would it be possible to do somethin OTR-like (in the sense of hiding
extra data) for exchanging cursor movement operations / cursor
location, and changes (typing, ...)?  That would make it possible to
collaboratively edit LyX docs.

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Tommaso Cucinotta]

Also, I made another video

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Xfi8Ohx7Y

to show better how it works in the lyx-to-lyx and lyx-to-Pidgin cases.
I hope you like both the patch  the video, which is a bit dedicated to Ireland 
:-)!

T.

On 22/10/13 00:43, Tommaso Cucinotta wrote:
 On 21/10/13 05:54, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
 On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Tommaso Cucinotta tomm...@lyx.org wrote:

 Comments are welcome of course, as always.

 Only that this looks cool :)
 
 If people like it, as I do, we could fine-tune it to get it in for the next 
 major release ?
 
 Let me recap current behaviour:
 a) launch the buddies pane
 b) enter login id, enter, a dialog pops up asking password (all these are 
 skipped once u save your credentials -- still to be added to the patch)
 b1) your buddies show up in the buddies pane
 c) double-click one of your buddies, you get your buddy-dedicated chat file 
 opened in ~/.lyx/chats/buddy-id.lyx, plus a chat line on the bottom where u 
 type
 d) everything u type in the chat bar, as well as received from remote, is 
 appended to the buddy specific chat file and auto-saved
 e) if u want to shut down net activity, click on disconnect (u can click on 
 connect to get back on-line)
 f) you can alter your availability/status from the status drop-down box 
 (unimplemented yet)
 
 No capability whatsoever to manage buddies, for now you can do that with 
 Pidgin or other clients.
 
 Among todos, a few nice icons to highlight online/available vs 
 offline/unavailable buddies to be added in the buddies pane.
 
 Chat files are regular lyx files. You can also edit them while chatting or 
 while off-line, or delete them etc. They're supposed to keep history (I know, 
 problems should they grow unbounded, but for now...). You can copy/paste back 
 and forth across your local files and the chat files/buffers.
 
 Text is tx-ed to the other end as exported LaTeX segment corresponding to the 
 paragraph you type, then imported back using Buffer::importString(). You can 
 send maths, tables, formats, headings, but if you try to send external 
 material such as a picture, the file is NOT tx-ed. Also, it should all be ok 
 with default doc settings. If u change them (notably, the doc class), then u 
 can create inconsistencies between the local and remote views (perhaps styles 
 that make sense here but not there etc...). For now, text is auto-tx-ed when 
 you type Enter, but this can be changed if deemed useful.
 
 Any comments, given the above ?
 
   T.
 

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Tommaso Cucinotta]

Also, I made another video

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Xfi8Ohx7Y

to show better how it works in the lyx-to-lyx and lyx-to-Pidgin cases.
I hope you like both the patch  the video, which is a bit dedicated to Ireland 
:-)!

T.

On 22/10/13 00:43, Tommaso Cucinotta wrote:
 On 21/10/13 05:54, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
 On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Tommaso Cucinotta tomm...@lyx.org wrote:

 Comments are welcome of course, as always.

 Only that this looks cool :)
 
 If people like it, as I do, we could fine-tune it to get it in for the next 
 major release ?
 
 Let me recap current behaviour:
 a) launch the buddies pane
 b) enter login id, enter, a dialog pops up asking password (all these are 
 skipped once u save your credentials -- still to be added to the patch)
 b1) your buddies show up in the buddies pane
 c) double-click one of your buddies, you get your buddy-dedicated chat file 
 opened in ~/.lyx/chats/buddy-id.lyx, plus a chat line on the bottom where u 
 type
 d) everything u type in the chat bar, as well as received from remote, is 
 appended to the buddy specific chat file and auto-saved
 e) if u want to shut down net activity, click on disconnect (u can click on 
 connect to get back on-line)
 f) you can alter your availability/status from the status drop-down box 
 (unimplemented yet)
 
 No capability whatsoever to manage buddies, for now you can do that with 
 Pidgin or other clients.
 
 Among todos, a few nice icons to highlight online/available vs 
 offline/unavailable buddies to be added in the buddies pane.
 
 Chat files are regular lyx files. You can also edit them while chatting or 
 while off-line, or delete them etc. They're supposed to keep history (I know, 
 problems should they grow unbounded, but for now...). You can copy/paste back 
 and forth across your local files and the chat files/buffers.
 
 Text is tx-ed to the other end as exported LaTeX segment corresponding to the 
 paragraph you type, then imported back using Buffer::importString(). You can 
 send maths, tables, formats, headings, but if you try to send external 
 material such as a picture, the file is NOT tx-ed. Also, it should all be ok 
 with default doc settings. If u change them (notably, the doc class), then u 
 can create inconsistencies between the local and remote views (perhaps styles 
 that make sense here but not there etc...). For now, text is auto-tx-ed when 
 you type Enter, but this can be changed if deemed useful.
 
 Any comments, given the above ?
 
   T.
 

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Tommaso Cucinotta]

Also, I made another video

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Xfi8Ohx7Y

to show better how it works in the lyx-to-lyx and lyx-to-Pidgin cases.
I hope you like both the patch & the video, which is a bit dedicated to Ireland 
:-)!

T.

On 22/10/13 00:43, Tommaso Cucinotta wrote:
> On 21/10/13 05:54, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
>> On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Tommaso Cucinotta  wrote:
>>
>>> Comments are welcome of course, as always.
>>
>> Only that this looks cool :)
> 
> If people like it, as I do, we could fine-tune it to get it in for the next 
> major release ?
> 
> Let me recap current behaviour:
> a) launch the buddies pane
> b) enter login id, enter, a dialog pops up asking password (all these are 
> skipped once u save your credentials -- still to be added to the patch)
> b1) your buddies show up in the buddies pane
> c) double-click one of your buddies, you get your buddy-dedicated chat file 
> opened in ~/.lyx/chats/.lyx, plus a chat line on the bottom where u 
> type
> d) everything u type in the chat bar, as well as received from remote, is 
> appended to the buddy specific chat file and auto-saved
> e) if u want to shut down net activity, click on disconnect (u can click on 
> connect to get back on-line)
> f) you can alter your availability/status from the status drop-down box 
> (unimplemented yet)
> 
> No capability whatsoever to manage buddies, for now you can do that with 
> Pidgin or other clients.
> 
> Among todos, a few nice icons to highlight online/available vs 
> offline/unavailable buddies to be added in the buddies pane.
> 
> Chat files are regular lyx files. You can also edit them while chatting or 
> while off-line, or delete them etc. They're supposed to keep history (I know, 
> problems should they grow unbounded, but for now...). You can copy/paste back 
> and forth across your local files and the chat files/buffers.
> 
> Text is tx-ed to the other end as exported LaTeX segment corresponding to the 
> paragraph you type, then imported back using Buffer::importString(). You can 
> send maths, tables, formats, headings, but if you try to send external 
> material such as a picture, the file is NOT tx-ed. Also, it should all be ok 
> with default doc settings. If u change them (notably, the doc class), then u 
> can create inconsistencies between the local and remote views (perhaps styles 
> that make sense here but not there etc...). For now, text is auto-tx-ed when 
> you type Enter, but this can be changed if deemed useful.
> 
> Any comments, given the above ?
> 
>   T.
> 

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Tommaso Cucinotta]

On 21/10/13 05:54, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
 On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Tommaso Cucinotta tomm...@lyx.org wrote:
 
 Comments are welcome of course, as always.
 
 Only that this looks cool :)

If people like it, as I do, we could fine-tune it to get it in for the next 
major release ?

Let me recap current behaviour:
a) launch the buddies pane
b) enter login id, enter, a dialog pops up asking password (all these are 
skipped once u save your credentials -- still to be added to the patch)
b1) your buddies show up in the buddies pane
c) double-click one of your buddies, you get your buddy-dedicated chat file 
opened in ~/.lyx/chats/buddy-id.lyx, plus a chat line on the bottom where u 
type
d) everything u type in the chat bar, as well as received from remote, is 
appended to the buddy specific chat file and auto-saved
e) if u want to shut down net activity, click on disconnect (u can click on 
connect to get back on-line)
f) you can alter your availability/status from the status drop-down box 
(unimplemented yet)

No capability whatsoever to manage buddies, for now you can do that with Pidgin 
or other clients.

Among todos, a few nice icons to highlight online/available vs 
offline/unavailable buddies to be added in the buddies pane.

Chat files are regular lyx files. You can also edit them while chatting or 
while off-line, or delete them etc. They're supposed to keep history (I know, 
problems should they grow unbounded, but for now...). You can copy/paste back 
and forth across your local files and the chat files/buffers.

Text is tx-ed to the other end as exported LaTeX segment corresponding to the 
paragraph you type, then imported back using Buffer::importString(). You can 
send maths, tables, formats, headings, but if you try to send external material 
such as a picture, the file is NOT tx-ed. Also, it should all be ok with 
default doc settings. If u change them (notably, the doc class), then u can 
create inconsistencies between the local and remote views (perhaps styles that 
make sense here but not there etc...). For now, text is auto-tx-ed when you 
type Enter, but this can be changed if deemed useful.

Any comments, given the above ?

T.

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Tommaso Cucinotta]

On 21/10/13 05:54, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
 On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Tommaso Cucinotta tomm...@lyx.org wrote:
 
 Comments are welcome of course, as always.
 
 Only that this looks cool :)

If people like it, as I do, we could fine-tune it to get it in for the next 
major release ?

Let me recap current behaviour:
a) launch the buddies pane
b) enter login id, enter, a dialog pops up asking password (all these are 
skipped once u save your credentials -- still to be added to the patch)
b1) your buddies show up in the buddies pane
c) double-click one of your buddies, you get your buddy-dedicated chat file 
opened in ~/.lyx/chats/buddy-id.lyx, plus a chat line on the bottom where u 
type
d) everything u type in the chat bar, as well as received from remote, is 
appended to the buddy specific chat file and auto-saved
e) if u want to shut down net activity, click on disconnect (u can click on 
connect to get back on-line)
f) you can alter your availability/status from the status drop-down box 
(unimplemented yet)

No capability whatsoever to manage buddies, for now you can do that with Pidgin 
or other clients.

Among todos, a few nice icons to highlight online/available vs 
offline/unavailable buddies to be added in the buddies pane.

Chat files are regular lyx files. You can also edit them while chatting or 
while off-line, or delete them etc. They're supposed to keep history (I know, 
problems should they grow unbounded, but for now...). You can copy/paste back 
and forth across your local files and the chat files/buffers.

Text is tx-ed to the other end as exported LaTeX segment corresponding to the 
paragraph you type, then imported back using Buffer::importString(). You can 
send maths, tables, formats, headings, but if you try to send external material 
such as a picture, the file is NOT tx-ed. Also, it should all be ok with 
default doc settings. If u change them (notably, the doc class), then u can 
create inconsistencies between the local and remote views (perhaps styles that 
make sense here but not there etc...). For now, text is auto-tx-ed when you 
type Enter, but this can be changed if deemed useful.

Any comments, given the above ?

T.

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Tommaso Cucinotta]

On 21/10/13 05:54, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Tommaso Cucinotta  wrote:
> 
>> Comments are welcome of course, as always.
> 
> Only that this looks cool :)

If people like it, as I do, we could fine-tune it to get it in for the next 
major release ?

Let me recap current behaviour:
a) launch the buddies pane
b) enter login id, enter, a dialog pops up asking password (all these are 
skipped once u save your credentials -- still to be added to the patch)
b1) your buddies show up in the buddies pane
c) double-click one of your buddies, you get your buddy-dedicated chat file 
opened in ~/.lyx/chats/.lyx, plus a chat line on the bottom where u 
type
d) everything u type in the chat bar, as well as received from remote, is 
appended to the buddy specific chat file and auto-saved
e) if u want to shut down net activity, click on disconnect (u can click on 
connect to get back on-line)
f) you can alter your availability/status from the status drop-down box 
(unimplemented yet)

No capability whatsoever to manage buddies, for now you can do that with Pidgin 
or other clients.

Among todos, a few nice icons to highlight online/available vs 
offline/unavailable buddies to be added in the buddies pane.

Chat files are regular lyx files. You can also edit them while chatting or 
while off-line, or delete them etc. They're supposed to keep history (I know, 
problems should they grow unbounded, but for now...). You can copy/paste back 
and forth across your local files and the chat files/buffers.

Text is tx-ed to the other end as exported LaTeX segment corresponding to the 
paragraph you type, then imported back using Buffer::importString(). You can 
send maths, tables, formats, headings, but if you try to send external material 
such as a picture, the file is NOT tx-ed. Also, it should all be ok with 
default doc settings. If u change them (notably, the doc class), then u can 
create inconsistencies between the local and remote views (perhaps styles that 
make sense here but not there etc...). For now, text is auto-tx-ed when you 
type Enter, but this can be changed if deemed useful.

Any comments, given the above ?

T.

LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Tommaso Cucinotta]

Hi all,

I couldn't resist the temptation in the end, and I refined a bit
that patch for a LyX Chat, going forward along the QXMPP path.

I just attached the new patch to the original ticket:

  http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7964

and being XMPP-based, it also interoperates nicely with Pidgin for example, as 
shown in the VIDEO AT:

  www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnVxbX8A3w

Plus, it doesn't need any chat server from the LyX side, as the many existing 
XMPP ones
can easily be used (as in the shown example, where I'm using jabber.org).

Comments are welcome of course, as always.

T.

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Mark Livingstone]

Wow, I could see how that could be quite useful in collaborative efforts!

Well done, and I hope it gets picked up!

Cheers,

MArkL



On 21 October 2013 10:54, Tommaso Cucinotta tomm...@lyx.org wrote:

 Hi all,

 I couldn't resist the temptation in the end, and I refined a bit
 that patch for a LyX Chat, going forward along the QXMPP path.

 I just attached the new patch to the original ticket:

   http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7964

 and being XMPP-based, it also interoperates nicely with Pidgin for
 example, as shown in the VIDEO AT:

   www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnVxbX8A3w

 Plus, it doesn't need any chat server from the LyX side, as the many
 existing XMPP ones
 can easily be used (as in the shown example, where I'm using jabber.org).

 Comments are welcome of course, as always.

 T.

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Tommaso Cucinotta tomm...@lyx.org wrote:

 Comments are welcome of course, as always.

Only that this looks cool :)

Scott

LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Tommaso Cucinotta]

Hi all,

I couldn't resist the temptation in the end, and I refined a bit
that patch for a LyX Chat, going forward along the QXMPP path.

I just attached the new patch to the original ticket:

  http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7964

and being XMPP-based, it also interoperates nicely with Pidgin for example, as 
shown in the VIDEO AT:

  www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnVxbX8A3w

Plus, it doesn't need any chat server from the LyX side, as the many existing 
XMPP ones
can easily be used (as in the shown example, where I'm using jabber.org).

Comments are welcome of course, as always.

T.

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Mark Livingstone]

Wow, I could see how that could be quite useful in collaborative efforts!

Well done, and I hope it gets picked up!

Cheers,

MArkL



On 21 October 2013 10:54, Tommaso Cucinotta tomm...@lyx.org wrote:

 Hi all,

 I couldn't resist the temptation in the end, and I refined a bit
 that patch for a LyX Chat, going forward along the QXMPP path.

 I just attached the new patch to the original ticket:

   http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7964

 and being XMPP-based, it also interoperates nicely with Pidgin for
 example, as shown in the VIDEO AT:

   www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnVxbX8A3w

 Plus, it doesn't need any chat server from the LyX side, as the many
 existing XMPP ones
 can easily be used (as in the shown example, where I'm using jabber.org).

 Comments are welcome of course, as always.

 T.

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Tommaso Cucinotta tomm...@lyx.org wrote:

 Comments are welcome of course, as always.

Only that this looks cool :)

Scott

LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Tommaso Cucinotta]

Hi all,

I couldn't resist the temptation in the end, and I refined a bit
that patch for a LyX Chat, going forward along the QXMPP path.

I just attached the new patch to the original ticket:

  http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7964

and being XMPP-based, it also interoperates nicely with Pidgin for example, as 
shown in the VIDEO AT:

  www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnVxbX8A3w

Plus, it doesn't need any chat server from the LyX side, as the many existing 
XMPP ones
can easily be used (as in the shown example, where I'm using jabber.org).

Comments are welcome of course, as always.

T.

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Mark Livingstone]

Wow, I could see how that could be quite useful in collaborative efforts!

Well done, and I hope it gets picked up!

Cheers,

MArkL



On 21 October 2013 10:54, Tommaso Cucinotta  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I couldn't resist the temptation in the end, and I refined a bit
> that patch for a LyX Chat, going forward along the QXMPP path.
>
> I just attached the new patch to the original ticket:
>
>   http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7964
>
> and being XMPP-based, it also interoperates nicely with Pidgin for
> example, as shown in the VIDEO AT:
>
>   www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnVxbX8A3w
>
> Plus, it doesn't need any chat server from the LyX side, as the many
> existing XMPP ones
> can easily be used (as in the shown example, where I'm using jabber.org).
>
> Comments are welcome of course, as always.
>
> T.
>
>

Re: LyX XMPP-Enhanced Chat

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Tommaso Cucinotta  wrote:

> Comments are welcome of course, as always.

Only that this looks cool :)

Scott