Re: Obsolete fonts palatino, times, pslatex

[Juergen Fenn]

> From: Andre Berger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Obsolete fonts palatino, times, pslatex
> To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
> Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 11:23:09 +0200

>> It's not that easy.
>> We have to check if mathpazo is available, if not, fall back to mathpple, if 
>> that is not available, fall back to palatino (same for mathptmx -> mathptm 
>> -> 
>> times). And maybe generate a warning if a document is processed on a system 
>> where an obsolete font package has to be used.
>> Also we have to think about what to do with the sans serif and courier 
>> families. It's certainly not a good idea to hardcode them.
>> 
>> The whole output fonts handling of LyX needs an overhaul. But that will 
>> presumerably not happen before v. 1.5.
>
> I see, thanks for the explanation.

Sorry, I think you are wrong. As we say in l2tabu/ l2tabuen, palatino
should not be used at all any more because it is obsolete. There is no
support for math fonts in palatino, and even if you do not need math
fonts in your documents at all mathpazo now is the package to use if
you want to typeset your document with Palatino. mathpazo has been a
part of PSNFSS for quite a while. So it should be available on most
systems. I think you should simply replace palatino by mathpazo. In
fact when I began using LyX on Windows I was rather surprised to find
palatino.sty still in use here...

Regards,
Juergen.

Re: Obsolete fonts palatino, times, pslatex

[Andre Berger]

* Juergen Spitzmueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 2005-07-31 17:30 +0200:
> Andre Berger wrote:
> > Maybe one could just make them
> > available in the document layout font menu, for a start :)
> 
> It's not that easy.
> We have to check if mathpazo is available, if not, fall back to mathpple, if 
> that is not available, fall back to palatino (same for mathptmx -> mathptm -> 
> times). And maybe generate a warning if a document is processed on a system 
> where an obsolete font package has to be used.
> Also we have to think about what to do with the sans serif and courier 
> families. It's certainly not a good idea to hardcode them.
> 
> The whole output fonts handling of LyX needs an overhaul. But that will 
> presumerably not happen before v. 1.5.

I see, thanks for the explanation.

-Andre

Re: Obsolete fonts palatino, times, pslatex

[Juergen Spitzmueller]

Andre Berger wrote:
> Maybe one could just make them
> available in the document layout font menu, for a start :)

It's not that easy.
We have to check if mathpazo is available, if not, fall back to mathpple, if 
that is not available, fall back to palatino (same for mathptmx -> mathptm -> 
times). And maybe generate a warning if a document is processed on a system 
where an obsolete font package has to be used.
Also we have to think about what to do with the sans serif and courier 
families. It's certainly not a good idea to hardcode them.

The whole output fonts handling of LyX needs an overhaul. But that will 
presumerably not happen before v. 1.5.

Jürgen

Re: Obsolete fonts palatino, times, pslatex

[Rich Shepard]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote:


mathpazo.sty is an enhanced replacement package for the package palatino.sty
with support for math and other things (small caps, old style figures etc.).
It still uses the Palatino (or, more precise: Palladio) font. The same counts
for times.sty vs. mathptmx.sty. Cf. the psnfss doc for more information and
this document:
ftp://dante.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/l2tabu/english/l2tabuen.pdf


Jürgen,

  Now that you write this, I recall reading something about this. Mea culpa!
I should have read more before writing.


We are well aware of the problem, but so far no one has volunteered to rewrite
the fonts code. In the meantime, you can just write
\usepackage{mathpazo} % Palladio
or
\usepackage{mathptmx} % Times
to the preamble.


  Thank you,

Rich

--
Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President |  Author of "Quantifying Environmental
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) |  Impact Assessments Using Fuzzy Logic"
   Voice: 503-667-4517   Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: Obsolete fonts palatino, times, pslatex

[Andre Berger]

* Rich Shepard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 2005-07-31 16:25 +0200:
> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, Andre Berger wrote:
> 
> >German Gurus told me the palatino, times, and pslatex fonts were obsolete,
> >and told me to use mathpazo and mathptmx instead. I wonder if LyX will
> >reflect this development?
> 
> Andre,
> 
>   I certainly hope not! I like Palatino. It's the default font in all my
> writing and what I used in my book. Why would I want to use math fonts for
> body text instead of Palatino or Times?

Hi Rich,

Palatino is my favorite font as well. -- 

PSNFSS is an effort to make the 35 'base' PostScript fonts, among
them Palatino and Times, compatible to the LaTeX NFSS2 font scheme,
to get "purer interpretations" of these fonts, so to speak. At least
that's how I understand
,
but I sure am no font expert!

I couldn't see any difference between

  \usepackage{palatino}

and the recommended

  \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
  \usepackage{textcomp}
  \usepackage[sc,osf]{mathpazo}%palatino
  \usepackage[scaled=.95]{helvet}
  \usepackage{courier}

in "normal text" printouts, can you? If not, it would be an argument
for the switch, since math is supposed to look better at he same
time, and the new font scheme is part of recent LaTeX distributions
(for example, teTeX 3.0) anyway. Maybe one could just make them
available in the document layout font menu, for a start :)

-Andre

Re: Obsolete fonts palatino, times, pslatex

[Juergen Spitzmueller]

Am Sonntag, 31. Juli 2005 16:23 schrieb Rich Shepard:
> Andre,
>
>    I certainly hope not! I like Palatino. It's the default font in all my
> writing and what I used in my book. Why would I want to use math fonts for
> body text instead of Palatino or Times?

Rich,

mathpazo.sty is an enhanced replacement package for the package palatino.sty 
with support for math and other things (small caps, old style figures etc.). 
It still uses the Palatino (or, more precise: Palladio) font. The same counts 
for times.sty vs. mathptmx.sty. Cf. the psnfss doc for more information and 
this document:
ftp://dante.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/l2tabu/english/l2tabuen.pdf

We are well aware of the problem, but so far no one has volunteered to rewrite 
the fonts code. In the meantime, you can just write
\usepackage{mathpazo} % Palladio
or
\usepackage{mathptmx} % Times
to the preamble.

Jürgen

> Rich

Re: Obsolete fonts palatino, times, pslatex

[Rich Shepard]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, Andre Berger wrote:


German Gurus told me the palatino, times, and pslatex fonts were obsolete,
and told me to use mathpazo and mathptmx instead. I wonder if LyX will
reflect this development?


Andre,

  I certainly hope not! I like Palatino. It's the default font in all my
writing and what I used in my book. Why would I want to use math fonts for
body text instead of Palatino or Times?

Rich

--
Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President |  Author of "Quantifying Environmental
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) |  Impact Assessments Using Fuzzy Logic"
   Voice: 503-667-4517   Fax: 503-667-8863

Obsolete fonts palatino, times, pslatex

[Andre Berger]

Hi there!

German Gurus told me the palatino, times, and pslatex fonts were
obsolete, and told me to use mathpazo and mathptmx instead. I wonder
if LyX will reflect this development?

-Andre