Re: Changes to LyX-Code with beamer

[Julien Rioux]

On 24/03/2010 5:19 PM, Kevin Middleton wrote:


I'm trying to alter the appearance of LyX-Code in a beamer presentation by 
following a couple of previous posts to:

http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users-uqbj+gopo4+hph1hqnu...@public.gmane.org/msg44992.html

http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users-uqbj+gopo4+hph1hqnu...@public.gmane.org/msg30149.html

I copied lyxmacros.inc from Resources/layouts in LyX.app bundle (I'm using OS X 
and LyX 1.6.5) into ~/Library/Application Support/LyX-1.6/layouts. I changed 
owner and group to my user name and user group.

As a test, I tried changing \normalfont to \rmfamily and \smaller. (I don't 
want this, but it seemed like a good way to see if it was working.)

[cut]
Preamble
\newenvironment{lyxcode}
{\par\begin{list}{}{
\setlength{\leftmargin}{\0in}
\setlength{\listparindent}{0pt}% needed for AMS 
classes
\raggedright
\setlength{\itemsep}{0pt}
\setlength{\parsep}{0pt}
\normalfont\rmfamily\smaller}%
 \item[]}
{\end{list}}
EndPreamble
[cut]

I reconfigured LyX, quit, and restarted. When compiled my beamer presentation, 
the font remains unchanged in the PDF output (still typewriter).

I also tried an article class document, and the LyX-Code output correctly set 
in Roman, so I think that my hack of lyxmacros.inc is working.

Does anyone know how I can get beamer to recognize these changes? Is there an 
appropriate \setbeamerfont option?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Kevin




You are close, but...

Look at the beamer.layout file. This is the file you want to edit. Put 
your own version in your user directory (I presume ~/Library/Application 
Support/LyX-1.6/layouts is correct but I am alien to Apple's OS).


Reason: beamer.layout redefines the LyX-Code environment.

--
Julien

Re: Changes to LyX-Code with beamer

[Julien Rioux]

On 24/03/2010 5:19 PM, Kevin Middleton wrote:


I'm trying to alter the appearance of LyX-Code in a beamer presentation by 
following a couple of previous posts to:

http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users-uqbj+gopo4+hph1hqnu...@public.gmane.org/msg44992.html

http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users-uqbj+gopo4+hph1hqnu...@public.gmane.org/msg30149.html

I copied lyxmacros.inc from Resources/layouts in LyX.app bundle (I'm using OS X 
and LyX 1.6.5) into ~/Library/Application Support/LyX-1.6/layouts. I changed 
owner and group to my user name and user group.

As a test, I tried changing \normalfont to \rmfamily and \smaller. (I don't 
want this, but it seemed like a good way to see if it was working.)

[cut]
Preamble
\newenvironment{lyxcode}
{\par\begin{list}{}{
\setlength{\leftmargin}{\0in}
\setlength{\listparindent}{0pt}% needed for AMS 
classes
\raggedright
\setlength{\itemsep}{0pt}
\setlength{\parsep}{0pt}
\normalfont\rmfamily\smaller}%
 \item[]}
{\end{list}}
EndPreamble
[cut]

I reconfigured LyX, quit, and restarted. When compiled my beamer presentation, 
the font remains unchanged in the PDF output (still typewriter).

I also tried an article class document, and the LyX-Code output correctly set 
in Roman, so I think that my hack of lyxmacros.inc is working.

Does anyone know how I can get beamer to recognize these changes? Is there an 
appropriate \setbeamerfont option?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Kevin




You are close, but...

Look at the beamer.layout file. This is the file you want to edit. Put 
your own version in your user directory (I presume ~/Library/Application 
Support/LyX-1.6/layouts is correct but I am alien to Apple's OS).


Reason: beamer.layout redefines the LyX-Code environment.

--
Julien

Re: Changes to LyX-Code with beamer

[Julien Rioux]

On 24/03/2010 5:19 PM, Kevin Middleton wrote:


I'm trying to alter the appearance of LyX-Code in a beamer presentation by 
following a couple of previous posts to:

http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users-uqbj+gopo4+hph1hqnu...@public.gmane.org/msg44992.html

http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users-uqbj+gopo4+hph1hqnu...@public.gmane.org/msg30149.html

I copied lyxmacros.inc from Resources/layouts in LyX.app bundle (I'm using OS X 
and LyX 1.6.5) into ~/Library/Application Support/LyX-1.6/layouts. I changed 
owner and group to my user name and user group.

As a test, I tried changing \normalfont to \rmfamily and \smaller. (I don't 
want this, but it seemed like a good way to see if it was working.)

[cut]
Preamble
\newenvironment{lyxcode}
{\par\begin{list}{}{
\setlength{\leftmargin}{\0in}
\setlength{\listparindent}{0pt}% needed for AMS 
classes
\raggedright
\setlength{\itemsep}{0pt}
\setlength{\parsep}{0pt}
\normalfont\rmfamily\smaller}%
 \item[]}
{\end{list}}
EndPreamble
[cut]

I reconfigured LyX, quit, and restarted. When compiled my beamer presentation, 
the font remains unchanged in the PDF output (still typewriter).

I also tried an article class document, and the LyX-Code output correctly set 
in Roman, so I think that my hack of lyxmacros.inc is working.

Does anyone know how I can get beamer to recognize these changes? Is there an 
appropriate \setbeamerfont option?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Kevin




You are close, but...

Look at the beamer.layout file. This is the file you want to edit. Put 
your own version in your user directory (I presume ~/Library/Application 
Support/LyX-1.6/layouts is correct but I am alien to Apple's OS).


Reason: beamer.layout redefines the LyX-Code environment.

--
Julien

Re: Changes in LyX

[Andre Poenitz]

On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 03:06:52AM +0100, John Levon wrote:

   ^^^

 On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 10:59:33AM +1000, Kathryn Andersen wrote:

 ^^^

  I agree -- if I install something, I want to be able to use a packaging
  system (in my case, RPM not DEB); not because I can't compile things (me
 
 this thread is getting so offtopic it's like a lyx-devel thread ;)

  ^^

Don't the Friday Rules apply to anything related to LyX?

Andre'

-- 
André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Changes in LyX

[Juergen Vigna]

On 31-Aug-2001 Andre Poenitz wrote:

 this thread is getting so offtopic it's like a lyx-devel thread ;)

 Don't the Friday Rules apply to anything related to LyX?

Nope only LyX-Devel!

Jürgen

--
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Italienallee 13/N   Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253
I-39100 Bozen   Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._

Knowledge is power.
-- Francis Bacon

Re: Changes in LyX

[Andre Poenitz]

On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 03:06:52AM +0100, John Levon wrote:

   ^^^

 On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 10:59:33AM +1000, Kathryn Andersen wrote:

 ^^^

  I agree -- if I install something, I want to be able to use a packaging
  system (in my case, RPM not DEB); not because I can't compile things (me
 
 this thread is getting so offtopic it's like a lyx-devel thread ;)

  ^^

Don't the Friday Rules apply to anything related to LyX?

Andre'

-- 
André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Changes in LyX

[Juergen Vigna]

On 31-Aug-2001 Andre Poenitz wrote:

 this thread is getting so offtopic it's like a lyx-devel thread ;)

 Don't the Friday Rules apply to anything related to LyX?

Nope only LyX-Devel!

Jürgen

--
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Italienallee 13/N   Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253
I-39100 Bozen   Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._

Knowledge is power.
-- Francis Bacon

Re: Changes in LyX

[Andre Poenitz]

On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 03:06:52AM +0100, John Levon wrote:

   ^^^

> On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 10:59:33AM +1000, Kathryn Andersen wrote:

 ^^^

> > I agree -- if I install something, I want to be able to use a packaging
> > system (in my case, RPM not DEB); not because I can't compile things (me
> 
> this thread is getting so offtopic it's like a lyx-devel thread ;)

  ^^

Don't the Friday Rules apply to anything related to LyX?

Andre'

-- 
André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Changes in LyX

[Juergen Vigna]

On 31-Aug-2001 Andre Poenitz wrote:

>> this thread is getting so offtopic it's like a lyx-devel thread ;)
>
> Don't the Friday Rules apply to anything related to LyX?

Nope only LyX-Devel!

Jürgen

--
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Italienallee 13/N   Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253
I-39100 Bozen   Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._

Knowledge is power.
-- Francis Bacon

Re: Changes in LyX

[John O'Gorman]

Please all you developers of LyX (regardless of how it is pronounced)
don't be discouraged by the complaint replied to below.

I regard LyX as the best piece of software ever!

For me it has changed writing documentation (the task I used to hate
most) into a joy.  I can produce high quality, superb looking books
at lightning speed with no thought for anything but the content.

It works the way I believe document processors should - you simply
write (marking up the logical divisions of the text appropriately)
and the software does all the rest.
No fussing over fonts, sizes, layout, hyphenation.  Production of Tables 
of contents, automatic (re)numbering of sections etc. all come with no
effort by the author.

Another bonus is its superb output of which I feel (quite unjustifiably)
proud. This, of course, is the work of LaTeX rather than LyX.

But LyX has eliminated the need for learning LaTeX, the need to have
good aesthetic judgment, and the need for any typsetting skill or
judgement.

Please! Please keep up the good work. 
Most of us know that you cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs.
So glitches in progress towards ultimate mirvana are inevitable.
As a professional software developer, I appreciate the contribution
you have made to my quality of life.

Best wishes

John O'Gorman


Andre Poenitz wrote:
 
 On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:57:08AM +0200, Juergen Vigna wrote:
   SuSE 7.2 does not have ksendfax, nor does RedHat 7.*.
  
   Why have you done the above  ??
  
   It worked perfectly !!
  
   Now, I have to loose 3 hours of my work to find sources, build,
   install , tweak etc ... I do not have those 3 hours.
 
 SuSE 7.1 rpms are on
 
 http://cgi.tu-chemnitz.de/ftp-home///pub/linux/suse/ftp.suse.c
 om/suse/i386/7.1/suse/kpa1/ksendfax.rpm
 
 It took me less than a minute to locate, download, su, and install.
 Haven't checked whether it works since I do not have a fax machine.
 
   I work 12 hours per day already.
 
 And that means what?
 
 Andre'
 
 --
 André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Changes in LyX

[Thomas Schönhoff]

Hello all,

I am totally agree to John's statement (although not being a
professional software developer! :-) ). Hopefully no ones basic
motivation has been serioussly damaged by this little crappy thread
before!

All the best from an (almost) totally satified user

Thomas

John O'Gorman wrote:
 
 Please all you developers of LyX (regardless of how it is pronounced)
 don't be discouraged by the complaint replied to below.
 
 I regard LyX as the best piece of software ever!
 
 For me it has changed writing documentation (the task I used to hate
 most) into a joy.  I can produce high quality, superb looking books
 at lightning speed with no thought for anything but the content.
 
 It works the way I believe document processors should - you simply
 write (marking up the logical divisions of the text appropriately)
 and the software does all the rest.
 No fussing over fonts, sizes, layout, hyphenation.  Production of Tables
 of contents, automatic (re)numbering of sections etc. all come with no
 effort by the author.
 
 Another bonus is its superb output of which I feel (quite unjustifiably)
 proud. This, of course, is the work of LaTeX rather than LyX.
 
 But LyX has eliminated the need for learning LaTeX, the need to have
 good aesthetic judgment, and the need for any typsetting skill or
 judgement.
 
 Please! Please keep up the good work.
 Most of us know that you cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs.
 So glitches in progress towards ultimate mirvana are inevitable.
 As a professional software developer, I appreciate the contribution
 you have made to my quality of life.
 
 Best wishes
 
 John O'Gorman

Re: Changes in LyX

[Tuukka Toivonen]

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:

 But it can not become that if you expect users to build anything from
 source. We at MySQL have learned that lesson 3 - 4 years ago.

I disagree. Compiling from source _doesn't_ mean that the user
should be a programmer. It just has to be easy: it could be as
easy as installing a binary, even easier since you generally
need not to care so much about correct library versions or
even what computer architecture are you using.

The only downside is that compiling takes some time. But with
fast computers it is not a big deal, I think.

The problem presently is that the C and especially C++
APIs and system environments tend to change often and you need
to modify some bit in the source to get it to compile.
But this is a thing that just should be standardized well enough
(not completely, but enough so that configure can do the rest).
(also one problem is the unstable compilers RedHat is using,
one would need a reliable compiler)

Of course, if a binary distribution doesn't work out of the
box there's usually nothing you can do and so it is easier.

The GNU ./configure; make; make install is very good, but
for anybody even that is too difficult I guess. But a simple
graphical wraparound of the process should be easy to do.
(I have planned to do a GUI configure package installer,
although I have left it at the planning stage so far)

Re: Changes in LyX

[Juha Siltala]

Tuukka Toivonen wrote:
 On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
 
 
But it can not become that if you expect users to build anything from
source. We at MySQL have learned that lesson 3 - 4 years ago.

--snip--
 
 The GNU ./configure; make; make install is very good, but
 for anybody even that is too difficult I guess. But a simple
 graphical wraparound of the process should be easy to do.
 (I have planned to do a GUI configure package installer,
 although I have left it at the planning stage so far)
 

check out kconfigure. Just a frienly face to the above process. Also, 
checkinstall, which replaces make install with checkinstall -- the 
result is an rpm.

Find these utilities with google: no time to search now. (I'm moving so 
I'll be offline for a while now.)


-- 

|  Juha Siltala |  Mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |
|  Maahisentie 2K A8|  Tel : +358  8 554 3591|
|  90550 Oulu, Finland  |  GSM : +358 40 718 4743|

Re: Changes in LyX

[Renaud MICHEL]

Le Jeudi 30 Août 2001 12:27, vous avez écrit :
 Please all you developers of LyX (regardless of how it is pronounced)
 don't be discouraged by the complaint replied to below.

I agree, from time to time it is good that satisfied users say how they like 
a program and I really like LyX, it is great, keep going.

Just another satisfied user. (j'ajouterais bien comblé si je savait comment 
le dire en anglais ;-) ).

-- 
J'ai la memoire photographique,
mais elle n'est pas encore developee...
-- Stauf, La 11e heure

Renaud MICHEL

Re: Changes in LyX

[James Lindenschmidt]

Tuukka Toivonen Spoke Thusly:
 On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
  But it can not become that if you expect users to build anything from
  source. We at MySQL have learned that lesson 3 - 4 years ago.

 I disagree. Compiling from source _doesn't_ mean that the user
 should be a programmer. It just has to be easy: it could be as
 easy as installing a binary, even easier since you generally
 need not to care so much about correct library versions or
 even what computer architecture are you using.

Speaking as a user of Linux (I am very much not a developer), I must agree 
with Sinisa here. On my Debian system, I will almost always opt to use an 
older version of software that I can install via apt or dpkg, rather than 
compiling from source. I am not afraid to compile from source, providing it 
goes well, but I'd much rather use my packaging system. Debian's packaging 
system, with which I'm most familiar as a user, is very solid and I'd prefer 
to let it do all the sysadmin work whenever possible.

Interesting discussion...LyX rules. I'm so glad it's available to me for my 
writing. Thank you everyone!
-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Changes in LyX

[Kathryn Andersen]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 12:27:03PM -0400, James Lindenschmidt wrote:
 Tuukka Toivonen Spoke Thusly:
  On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
   But it can not become that if you expect users to build anything from
   source. We at MySQL have learned that lesson 3 - 4 years ago.
 
  I disagree. Compiling from source _doesn't_ mean that the user
  should be a programmer. It just has to be easy: it could be as
  easy as installing a binary, even easier since you generally
  need not to care so much about correct library versions or
  even what computer architecture are you using.
 
 Speaking as a user of Linux (I am very much not a developer), I must agree 
 with Sinisa here. On my Debian system, I will almost always opt to use an 
 older version of software that I can install via apt or dpkg, rather than 
 compiling from source. I am not afraid to compile from source, providing it 
 goes well, but I'd much rather use my packaging system. Debian's packaging 
 system, with which I'm most familiar as a user, is very solid and I'd prefer 
 to let it do all the sysadmin work whenever possible.

I agree -- if I install something, I want to be able to use a packaging
system (in my case, RPM not DEB); not because I can't compile things (me
computer professional, me know how to type configure;make;make install)
but because packaging systems are designed to be upgradable and easily
uninstallable (do any of these source packages have make uninstall?
I don't think so!)  With a packaging system, if an upgrade doesn't work,
I can easily roll back to the previous version I had which did work
(like I had to do recently for vlc...)

Fortunately, source RPMs are a useful solution.  If the binary RPM I get
for something doesn't work, then I look for a source RPM; that way it
will figure out what I have on my system, configure accordingly, and
most of the time it works.

And I only have to type one more line than before.

rpm -rebuild source-package.rpm
rpm -Uvh /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/package.rpm

(Lyx rocks... but I'm afraid I still haven't upgraded yet to 1.1.6fix3;
other things to do...)

Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding,
 but only in expressing his opinion.   Proverbs 18:2
-- 
 _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
/  \|   http://www.katspace.com
\_.--.*/|   
  v | #include standard/disclaimer.h
| Melbourne - Victoria - Australia - Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha!  |   - Earth - Sol - Milky Way Galaxy - Universe

Re: Changes in LyX

[John Levon]

On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 10:59:33AM +1000, Kathryn Andersen wrote:

 I agree -- if I install something, I want to be able to use a packaging
 system (in my case, RPM not DEB); not because I can't compile things (me

this thread is getting so offtopic it's like a lyx-devel thread ;)

I'm sure Kayvan would be happy to receive working SuSE 7.2 RPMs, and any
other build people do.

regards
john

-- 
It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word.
- Andrew Jackson

Re: Changes in LyX

[Sinisa Milivojevic]

Andre Poenitz writes:
 On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:57:08AM +0200, Juergen Vigna wrote:
 SuSE 7.1 rpms are on
 
 http://cgi.tu-chemnitz.de/ftp-home///pub/linux/suse/ftp.suse.c
 om/suse/i386/7.1/suse/kpa1/ksendfax.rpm
 
 It took me less than a minute to locate, download, su, and install.
 Haven't checked whether it works since I do not have a fax machine.
 

Have you tried to install it on SuSE 7.2 ??

Try it !

 Andre'
 
 -- 
 André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

I wish LyX becomes most popular document (not word) processor in the
world, as it IS the best. 

But it can not become that if you expect users to build anything from
source. We at MySQL have learned that lesson 3 - 4 years ago.

You should set your target group at non-programmers. People like
lawyers, ice-cream makers (you had one user I know off that made
ice-cream) etc ...

-- 
Regards,
   __  ___ ___   __
  /  |/  /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__   MySQL AB, FullTime Developer
/_/  /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/   Larnaca, Cyprus
   ___/   www.mysql.com

Re: Changes in LyX

[Andre Poenitz]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:45:39PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
 Have you tried to install it on SuSE 7.2 ??
 
 Try it !

No. Simply because I don't have 7.2.

Why does the 7.1 package not install?

Andre'

-- 
André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Changes in LyX

[Sinisa Milivojevic]

Andre Poenitz writes:
 On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:45:39PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
  Have you tried to install it on SuSE 7.2 ??
  
  Try it !
 
 No. Simply because I don't have 7.2.
 
 Why does the 7.1 package not install?
 
 Andre'
 
 -- 
 André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

Differences in KDE libs versions ...

-- 
Regards,
   __  ___ ___   __
  /  |/  /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__   MySQL AB, FullTime Developer
/_/  /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/   Larnaca, Cyprus
   ___/   www.mysql.com

Re: Changes in LyX

[Kayvan A. Sylvan]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 03:33:50PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
 Andre Poenitz writes:
  On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:45:39PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
   Have you tried to install it on SuSE 7.2 ??
   
   Try it !
  
  No. Simply because I don't have 7.2.
  
  Why does the 7.1 package not install?
  
  Andre'
 
 Differences in KDE libs versions ...

Okay, then he should make himself a custom RPM by doing an
``rpm --rebuild ksendfax_blah.src.rpm'' and then install the resulting
RPM.

-- 
Kayvan A. Sylvan  | Proud husband of   | Father to my kids:
Sylvan Associates, Inc.   | Laura Isabella Sylvan  | Katherine Yelena (8/8/89)
http://sylvan.com/~kayvan | crown of her husband | Robin Gregory (2/28/92)

RE: Changes in LyX

[Juergen Vigna]

On 30-Aug-2001 Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:

 Fair enough. Although, I never said you were BAD, nor bad ...

No you never said I understood it like that.

 Sorry, you are wrong. There is neither ksendfax nor xsendfax in SuSE
 7.2 and you can not install packages from 7.1. Check it out. I have
 all 7 CD's here with me. 

Well we cannot provide all external software which is needed for LyX and
anyway we all blame Him (he knows) to remove this part of code, but
anyway we agreed with it and so be it.

 The issue is that it is not 10 secs. I have told you about SuSE and I
 phoned my friend who has RH 7.1 and he told me the same thing. 

Well I surely have RH 7.1 installed and there surely is a package for
RH 7.1 which will install.

 No , I did not give the answer. My wife refuses to install from
 source. She wants, just as most other users to have controlled RPM
 installation of what she needs.

Then she has the wrong system administrator ;)

 No, I am not a 'Lamer'. I just ask: Why kill something that works fine
 

Well the tone makes the mail, you can always ask, but your mail was not
a question is was an accusation with the implication that you would make
it a lot better.

 And fax sending from previous LyX worked perfectly. 
 
 We should learn from competition if we are not sure. 
 
 Even that rubbish of MS Word has fax sending in the same place it was
 5 years ago 

Anyway as it seems your tone got better with this mail I will try to help
solve your problem (hopefully ;)

Get yourself:

ftp://ftp.sad.it/pub/kde/local/bin/rh7x/ksendfax-2.0.0cvs-2.i386.rpm

And try to install this.

Greets,

  Jürgen

--
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Italienallee 13/N   Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253
I-39100 Bozen   Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._

Anybody with money to burn will easily find someone to tend the fire.

RE: Changes in LyX

[Sinisa Milivojevic]

Juergen Vigna writes:
 
 On 30-Aug-2001 Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
 
  Fair enough. Although, I never said you were BAD, nor bad ...
 
 No you never said I understood it like that.
 

God forbid me !! 



 
 Then she has the wrong system administrator ;)
 

Yes, the one too busy to fix his machine, much less hers  ;o)

 
 Anyway as it seems your tone got better with this mail I will try to help
 solve your problem (hopefully ;)
 
 Get yourself:
 
 ftp://ftp.sad.it/pub/kde/local/bin/rh7x/ksendfax-2.0.0cvs-2.i386.rpm
 
 And try to install this.
 
 Greets,
 
   Jürgen
 
 --
 -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
 Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Italienallee 13/N   Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253
 I-39100 Bozen   Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug
 -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
 
 Anybody with money to burn will easily find someone to tend the fire.
 
 

I did solve the problem partially. 

After spending 1 hour, I found ksendfax that works on my wife's
machine. But it does not work properly. Some things work, some
not. But this is not mailing list for that product, so ...

I will have to spend one more hour to make it work eventually, if
ever. 

But it will never be as good as old feature that you have killed for
the reasons known only to you.

I want LyX to reigh, and it will not until lawyers and ice-cream
makers will be able to upgrade effortlessly.

That is all I wanted to say. 

-- 
Regards,
   __  ___ ___   __
  /  |/  /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__   MySQL AB, FullTime Developer
/_/  /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/   Larnaca, Cyprus
   ___/   www.mysql.com

RE: Changes in LyX

[Juergen Vigna]

Dear Sinisa!

I will Cc: this to the developers list so that all of this BAD people
know what you think!

On 29-Aug-2001 Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
 
 The internal fax-facility has been removed from LyX so you need an
 external program (Frontend) to the faxpackage you've installed to be
 able to fax your stuff with some confort. I use KSendFax for this as
 it uses the same addressbook format as the old implementation in LyX
 (which was both programmed by myself) if you don't have KDE installed
 then you can also try to compile/install xsendfax a Fax-Frontend identicall
 to the one included in LyX with the xforms library. Search it on ftp.sad.it.
 
 If you have such a Frontend the you can go into Edit-Preferences-Converters
 and input a converter for the Fax-Converter.
 
 From: Postscript
 To: Fax
 Converter: ksendfax $$i
 
 Hope this helps,
 
Jürgen
 
 
 No, it does not.
 
 SuSE 7.2 does not have ksendfax, nor does RedHat 7.*.
 
 Why have you done the above  ??
 
 It worked perfectly !!
 
 Now, I have to loose 3 hours of my work to find sources, build,
 install , tweak etc ... I do not have those 3 hours. I work 12 hours
 per day already.


Nonsense there are RPM packages for RedHat and I guess you can install
them also for SuSE and it takes you exactly 10secs to install it!


 This way you will loose all users, one by one. 


You mean all our users who used the OLD fax facility and who are not
dynamic enough to spend 10secs to install a program from a RPM package!


 I recommended LyX for invoicing and faxing to several folks. They all
 upgraded ( for their own reasons) and ask me what to do. They are
 lawyers etc, and they can't build, tweak etc. I told them : Switch to
 StarOffice. 


I recommend OpenOffice it is REALLY feature complete VERY fast, has a
wonderful print engine, just it segfaults from time to time and to input
some text you need quite some time as the screen/redraw seems a bit slow.


 So, what should we do ??


You gave yourself an answer above didn't you!


 If we in MySQL would do such nonsense as you do with LyX, we would be
 without users. 
 
 What you could do 5 years ago with MySQL, you can do today. Are there
 new and better ways today ?? Yes, but those new features do not kill
 old features. None.


Well I have a big smile now on my face, we're using MySQL and it seems
it gets slower and slower at every release, especially joins with range
values takes forever to complete on a medium/large sized database, I don't
really call this good behavior, but We probably see that from a different
perspective that you REALLY BRAVE mysql developers!


 You, LyX developers,  are all very irresponsible people, and if you
 continue that way, LyX will have not much of the future, although it
 is a best word processor around.


It's no word processor it's a document processor, but thanks for the
compliment!


 If you make a single change in some other feature, like HTML
 generation, that would require another 3 hours of my work, I will
 erase LyX.
 
 So, what should I do ??


You gave yourself an answer already for this question didn't you!

How are people called who do personal emails like this one to OpenSource
developers, ..., hmm, ..., let me think, ..., ah I got it, I think the
right term I heard on the net was Lamers isn't it? There are people
who terminated projects because of people like you, but you know, I'm
just to happy with my life to let me touch by such overbearingness!

Have a nice day,

 Jürgen

--
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Italienallee 13/N   Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253
I-39100 Bozen   Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._

Great acts are made up of small deeds.
-- Lao Tsu

Re: Changes in LyX

[Andre Poenitz]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:57:08AM +0200, Juergen Vigna wrote:
  SuSE 7.2 does not have ksendfax, nor does RedHat 7.*.
  
  Why have you done the above  ??
  
  It worked perfectly !!
  
  Now, I have to loose 3 hours of my work to find sources, build,
  install , tweak etc ... I do not have those 3 hours.

SuSE 7.1 rpms are on

http://cgi.tu-chemnitz.de/ftp-home///pub/linux/suse/ftp.suse.c
om/suse/i386/7.1/suse/kpa1/ksendfax.rpm

It took me less than a minute to locate, download, su, and install.
Haven't checked whether it works since I do not have a fax machine.

  I work 12 hours per day already.

And that means what?

Andre'

-- 
André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Changes in LyX

[Kayvan A. Sylvan]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:05:15AM +0200, Andre Poenitz wrote:
 
 It took me less than a minute to locate, download, su, and install.
 Haven't checked whether it works since I do not have a fax machine.
 
   I work 12 hours per day already.
 
 And that means what?

It means he's a slacker! I work about 14 hours a day and I spend an hour
or two on top of that doing other non-work work. ;-)

Sleep, what is that? Sleep is for WIMPS and LOSERS!

-- 
Kayvan A. Sylvan  | Proud husband of   | Father to my kids:
Sylvan Associates, Inc.   | Laura Isabella Sylvan  | Katherine Yelena (8/8/89)
http://sylvan.com/~kayvan | crown of her husband | Robin Gregory (2/28/92)

RE: Changes in LyX

[Sinisa Milivojevic]

Juergen Vigna writes:
 Dear Sinisa!
 
 I will Cc: this to the developers list so that all of this BAD people
 know what you think!
 

Fair enough. Although, I never said you were BAD, nor bad ...

 
 Nonsense there are RPM packages for RedHat and I guess you can install
 them also for SuSE and it takes you exactly 10secs to install it!
 

Sorry, you are wrong. There is neither ksendfax nor xsendfax in SuSE
7.2 and you can not install packages from 7.1. Check it out. I have
all 7 CD's here with me. 

 You mean all our users who used the OLD fax facility and who are not
 dynamic enough to spend 10secs to install a program from a RPM package!
 

The issue is that it is not 10 secs. I have told you about SuSE and I
phoned my friend who has RH 7.1 and he told me the same thing. 

There are ksendfax RPM's on ksendfax SourceForge page, but none will
install. 

 
  So, what should we do ??
 
 
 You gave yourself an answer above didn't you!
 

No , I did not give the answer. My wife refuses to install from
source. She wants, just as most other users to have controlled RPM
installation of what she needs.

 
  
  What you could do 5 years ago with MySQL, you can do today. Are there
  new and better ways today ?? Yes, but those new features do not kill
  old features. None.
 
 
 Well I have a big smile now on my face, we're using MySQL and it seems
 it gets slower and slower at every release, especially joins with range
 values takes forever to complete on a medium/large sized database, I don't
 really call this good behavior, but We probably see that from a different
 perspective that you REALLY BRAVE mysql developers!
 

Why are you changing the issue ?? I was speaking about removing
features , not about speed. I did not say LyX is slower or faster. 

I said that what you did 5 years ago with MySQL, you can do today. Are
there better ways to do same thing today. Yes, many, but none of them
killed the old feature. 

Regarding speed, 4.0 will be soon out and you will definitely see
speed improvements. If you have any questions on improving join
speeds, please feel free to write to me directly. I use LyX for all
documentation and it is fair to give back something in return
... Anyway, it is possible your join speeds deteriorated due to larger
tables, not because of MySQL. And you probably did not run ANALYZE
TABLE periodically to help MySQL optimizer do a better job.

 You gave yourself an answer already for this question didn't you!
 

No, I did not. My wife installed LyX from SuSE 7.0 and it sent
faxes. How can  LyX be installed from SuSE 7.2 or RH 7.1, through a
normal RPM installation. 

 How are people called who do personal emails like this one to OpenSource
 developers, ..., hmm, ..., let me think, ..., ah I got it, I think the
 right term I heard on the net was Lamers isn't it? There are people
 who terminated projects because of people like you, but you know, I'm
 just to happy with my life to let me touch by such overbearingness!
 
 Have a nice day,
 
  Jürgen
 
 --
 -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
 Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Italienallee 13/N   Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253
 I-39100 Bozen   Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug
 -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
 
 Great acts are made up of small deeds.
 -- Lao Tsu
 
 


No, I am not a 'Lamer'. I just ask: Why kill something that works fine


And fax sending from previous LyX worked perfectly. 

We should learn from competition if we are not sure. 

Even that rubbish of MS Word has fax sending in the same place it was
5 years ago 

-- 
Regards,
   __  ___ ___   __
  /  |/  /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__   MySQL AB, FullTime Developer
/_/  /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/   Larnaca, Cyprus
   ___/   www.mysql.com

Re: Changes in LyX

[John O'Gorman]

Please all you developers of LyX (regardless of how it is pronounced)
don't be discouraged by the complaint replied to below.

I regard LyX as the best piece of software ever!

For me it has changed writing documentation (the task I used to hate
most) into a joy.  I can produce high quality, superb looking books
at lightning speed with no thought for anything but the content.

It works the way I believe document processors should - you simply
write (marking up the logical divisions of the text appropriately)
and the software does all the rest.
No fussing over fonts, sizes, layout, hyphenation.  Production of Tables 
of contents, automatic (re)numbering of sections etc. all come with no
effort by the author.

Another bonus is its superb output of which I feel (quite unjustifiably)
proud. This, of course, is the work of LaTeX rather than LyX.

But LyX has eliminated the need for learning LaTeX, the need to have
good aesthetic judgment, and the need for any typsetting skill or
judgement.

Please! Please keep up the good work. 
Most of us know that you cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs.
So glitches in progress towards ultimate mirvana are inevitable.
As a professional software developer, I appreciate the contribution
you have made to my quality of life.

Best wishes

John O'Gorman


Andre Poenitz wrote:
 
 On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:57:08AM +0200, Juergen Vigna wrote:
   SuSE 7.2 does not have ksendfax, nor does RedHat 7.*.
  
   Why have you done the above  ??
  
   It worked perfectly !!
  
   Now, I have to loose 3 hours of my work to find sources, build,
   install , tweak etc ... I do not have those 3 hours.
 
 SuSE 7.1 rpms are on
 
 http://cgi.tu-chemnitz.de/ftp-home///pub/linux/suse/ftp.suse.c
 om/suse/i386/7.1/suse/kpa1/ksendfax.rpm
 
 It took me less than a minute to locate, download, su, and install.
 Haven't checked whether it works since I do not have a fax machine.
 
   I work 12 hours per day already.
 
 And that means what?
 
 Andre'
 
 --
 André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Changes in LyX

[Thomas Schönhoff]

Hello all,

I am totally agree to John's statement (although not being a
professional software developer! :-) ). Hopefully no ones basic
motivation has been serioussly damaged by this little crappy thread
before!

All the best from an (almost) totally satified user

Thomas

John O'Gorman wrote:
 
 Please all you developers of LyX (regardless of how it is pronounced)
 don't be discouraged by the complaint replied to below.
 
 I regard LyX as the best piece of software ever!
 
 For me it has changed writing documentation (the task I used to hate
 most) into a joy.  I can produce high quality, superb looking books
 at lightning speed with no thought for anything but the content.
 
 It works the way I believe document processors should - you simply
 write (marking up the logical divisions of the text appropriately)
 and the software does all the rest.
 No fussing over fonts, sizes, layout, hyphenation.  Production of Tables
 of contents, automatic (re)numbering of sections etc. all come with no
 effort by the author.
 
 Another bonus is its superb output of which I feel (quite unjustifiably)
 proud. This, of course, is the work of LaTeX rather than LyX.
 
 But LyX has eliminated the need for learning LaTeX, the need to have
 good aesthetic judgment, and the need for any typsetting skill or
 judgement.
 
 Please! Please keep up the good work.
 Most of us know that you cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs.
 So glitches in progress towards ultimate mirvana are inevitable.
 As a professional software developer, I appreciate the contribution
 you have made to my quality of life.
 
 Best wishes
 
 John O'Gorman

Re: Changes in LyX

[Tuukka Toivonen]

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:

 But it can not become that if you expect users to build anything from
 source. We at MySQL have learned that lesson 3 - 4 years ago.

I disagree. Compiling from source _doesn't_ mean that the user
should be a programmer. It just has to be easy: it could be as
easy as installing a binary, even easier since you generally
need not to care so much about correct library versions or
even what computer architecture are you using.

The only downside is that compiling takes some time. But with
fast computers it is not a big deal, I think.

The problem presently is that the C and especially C++
APIs and system environments tend to change often and you need
to modify some bit in the source to get it to compile.
But this is a thing that just should be standardized well enough
(not completely, but enough so that configure can do the rest).
(also one problem is the unstable compilers RedHat is using,
one would need a reliable compiler)

Of course, if a binary distribution doesn't work out of the
box there's usually nothing you can do and so it is easier.

The GNU ./configure; make; make install is very good, but
for anybody even that is too difficult I guess. But a simple
graphical wraparound of the process should be easy to do.
(I have planned to do a GUI configure package installer,
although I have left it at the planning stage so far)

Re: Changes in LyX

[Juha Siltala]

Tuukka Toivonen wrote:
 On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
 
 
But it can not become that if you expect users to build anything from
source. We at MySQL have learned that lesson 3 - 4 years ago.

--snip--
 
 The GNU ./configure; make; make install is very good, but
 for anybody even that is too difficult I guess. But a simple
 graphical wraparound of the process should be easy to do.
 (I have planned to do a GUI configure package installer,
 although I have left it at the planning stage so far)
 

check out kconfigure. Just a frienly face to the above process. Also, 
checkinstall, which replaces make install with checkinstall -- the 
result is an rpm.

Find these utilities with google: no time to search now. (I'm moving so 
I'll be offline for a while now.)


-- 

|  Juha Siltala |  Mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |
|  Maahisentie 2K A8|  Tel : +358  8 554 3591|
|  90550 Oulu, Finland  |  GSM : +358 40 718 4743|

Re: Changes in LyX

[Renaud MICHEL]

Le Jeudi 30 Août 2001 12:27, vous avez écrit :
 Please all you developers of LyX (regardless of how it is pronounced)
 don't be discouraged by the complaint replied to below.

I agree, from time to time it is good that satisfied users say how they like 
a program and I really like LyX, it is great, keep going.

Just another satisfied user. (j'ajouterais bien comblé si je savait comment 
le dire en anglais ;-) ).

-- 
J'ai la memoire photographique,
mais elle n'est pas encore developee...
-- Stauf, La 11e heure

Renaud MICHEL

Re: Changes in LyX

[James Lindenschmidt]

Tuukka Toivonen Spoke Thusly:
 On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
  But it can not become that if you expect users to build anything from
  source. We at MySQL have learned that lesson 3 - 4 years ago.

 I disagree. Compiling from source _doesn't_ mean that the user
 should be a programmer. It just has to be easy: it could be as
 easy as installing a binary, even easier since you generally
 need not to care so much about correct library versions or
 even what computer architecture are you using.

Speaking as a user of Linux (I am very much not a developer), I must agree 
with Sinisa here. On my Debian system, I will almost always opt to use an 
older version of software that I can install via apt or dpkg, rather than 
compiling from source. I am not afraid to compile from source, providing it 
goes well, but I'd much rather use my packaging system. Debian's packaging 
system, with which I'm most familiar as a user, is very solid and I'd prefer 
to let it do all the sysadmin work whenever possible.

Interesting discussion...LyX rules. I'm so glad it's available to me for my 
writing. Thank you everyone!
-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Changes in LyX

[Kathryn Andersen]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 12:27:03PM -0400, James Lindenschmidt wrote:
 Tuukka Toivonen Spoke Thusly:
  On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
   But it can not become that if you expect users to build anything from
   source. We at MySQL have learned that lesson 3 - 4 years ago.
 
  I disagree. Compiling from source _doesn't_ mean that the user
  should be a programmer. It just has to be easy: it could be as
  easy as installing a binary, even easier since you generally
  need not to care so much about correct library versions or
  even what computer architecture are you using.
 
 Speaking as a user of Linux (I am very much not a developer), I must agree 
 with Sinisa here. On my Debian system, I will almost always opt to use an 
 older version of software that I can install via apt or dpkg, rather than 
 compiling from source. I am not afraid to compile from source, providing it 
 goes well, but I'd much rather use my packaging system. Debian's packaging 
 system, with which I'm most familiar as a user, is very solid and I'd prefer 
 to let it do all the sysadmin work whenever possible.

I agree -- if I install something, I want to be able to use a packaging
system (in my case, RPM not DEB); not because I can't compile things (me
computer professional, me know how to type configure;make;make install)
but because packaging systems are designed to be upgradable and easily
uninstallable (do any of these source packages have make uninstall?
I don't think so!)  With a packaging system, if an upgrade doesn't work,
I can easily roll back to the previous version I had which did work
(like I had to do recently for vlc...)

Fortunately, source RPMs are a useful solution.  If the binary RPM I get
for something doesn't work, then I look for a source RPM; that way it
will figure out what I have on my system, configure accordingly, and
most of the time it works.

And I only have to type one more line than before.

rpm -rebuild source-package.rpm
rpm -Uvh /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/package.rpm

(Lyx rocks... but I'm afraid I still haven't upgraded yet to 1.1.6fix3;
other things to do...)

Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding,
 but only in expressing his opinion.   Proverbs 18:2
-- 
 _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
/  \|   http://www.katspace.com
\_.--.*/|   
  v | #include standard/disclaimer.h
| Melbourne - Victoria - Australia - Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha!  |   - Earth - Sol - Milky Way Galaxy - Universe

Re: Changes in LyX

[John Levon]

On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 10:59:33AM +1000, Kathryn Andersen wrote:

 I agree -- if I install something, I want to be able to use a packaging
 system (in my case, RPM not DEB); not because I can't compile things (me

this thread is getting so offtopic it's like a lyx-devel thread ;)

I'm sure Kayvan would be happy to receive working SuSE 7.2 RPMs, and any
other build people do.

regards
john

-- 
It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word.
- Andrew Jackson

Re: Changes in LyX

[Sinisa Milivojevic]

Andre Poenitz writes:
 On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:57:08AM +0200, Juergen Vigna wrote:
 SuSE 7.1 rpms are on
 
 http://cgi.tu-chemnitz.de/ftp-home///pub/linux/suse/ftp.suse.c
 om/suse/i386/7.1/suse/kpa1/ksendfax.rpm
 
 It took me less than a minute to locate, download, su, and install.
 Haven't checked whether it works since I do not have a fax machine.
 

Have you tried to install it on SuSE 7.2 ??

Try it !

 Andre'
 
 -- 
 André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

I wish LyX becomes most popular document (not word) processor in the
world, as it IS the best. 

But it can not become that if you expect users to build anything from
source. We at MySQL have learned that lesson 3 - 4 years ago.

You should set your target group at non-programmers. People like
lawyers, ice-cream makers (you had one user I know off that made
ice-cream) etc ...

-- 
Regards,
   __  ___ ___   __
  /  |/  /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__   MySQL AB, FullTime Developer
/_/  /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/   Larnaca, Cyprus
   ___/   www.mysql.com

Re: Changes in LyX

[Andre Poenitz]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:45:39PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
 Have you tried to install it on SuSE 7.2 ??
 
 Try it !

No. Simply because I don't have 7.2.

Why does the 7.1 package not install?

Andre'

-- 
André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Changes in LyX

[Sinisa Milivojevic]

Andre Poenitz writes:
 On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:45:39PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
  Have you tried to install it on SuSE 7.2 ??
  
  Try it !
 
 No. Simply because I don't have 7.2.
 
 Why does the 7.1 package not install?
 
 Andre'
 
 -- 
 André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

Differences in KDE libs versions ...

-- 
Regards,
   __  ___ ___   __
  /  |/  /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__   MySQL AB, FullTime Developer
/_/  /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/   Larnaca, Cyprus
   ___/   www.mysql.com

Re: Changes in LyX

[Kayvan A. Sylvan]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 03:33:50PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
 Andre Poenitz writes:
  On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:45:39PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
   Have you tried to install it on SuSE 7.2 ??
   
   Try it !
  
  No. Simply because I don't have 7.2.
  
  Why does the 7.1 package not install?
  
  Andre'
 
 Differences in KDE libs versions ...

Okay, then he should make himself a custom RPM by doing an
``rpm --rebuild ksendfax_blah.src.rpm'' and then install the resulting
RPM.

-- 
Kayvan A. Sylvan  | Proud husband of   | Father to my kids:
Sylvan Associates, Inc.   | Laura Isabella Sylvan  | Katherine Yelena (8/8/89)
http://sylvan.com/~kayvan | crown of her husband | Robin Gregory (2/28/92)

RE: Changes in LyX

[Juergen Vigna]

On 30-Aug-2001 Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:

 Fair enough. Although, I never said you were BAD, nor bad ...

No you never said I understood it like that.

 Sorry, you are wrong. There is neither ksendfax nor xsendfax in SuSE
 7.2 and you can not install packages from 7.1. Check it out. I have
 all 7 CD's here with me. 

Well we cannot provide all external software which is needed for LyX and
anyway we all blame Him (he knows) to remove this part of code, but
anyway we agreed with it and so be it.

 The issue is that it is not 10 secs. I have told you about SuSE and I
 phoned my friend who has RH 7.1 and he told me the same thing. 

Well I surely have RH 7.1 installed and there surely is a package for
RH 7.1 which will install.

 No , I did not give the answer. My wife refuses to install from
 source. She wants, just as most other users to have controlled RPM
 installation of what she needs.

Then she has the wrong system administrator ;)

 No, I am not a 'Lamer'. I just ask: Why kill something that works fine
 

Well the tone makes the mail, you can always ask, but your mail was not
a question is was an accusation with the implication that you would make
it a lot better.

 And fax sending from previous LyX worked perfectly. 
 
 We should learn from competition if we are not sure. 
 
 Even that rubbish of MS Word has fax sending in the same place it was
 5 years ago 

Anyway as it seems your tone got better with this mail I will try to help
solve your problem (hopefully ;)

Get yourself:

ftp://ftp.sad.it/pub/kde/local/bin/rh7x/ksendfax-2.0.0cvs-2.i386.rpm

And try to install this.

Greets,

  Jürgen

--
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Italienallee 13/N   Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253
I-39100 Bozen   Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._

Anybody with money to burn will easily find someone to tend the fire.

RE: Changes in LyX

[Sinisa Milivojevic]

Juergen Vigna writes:
 
 On 30-Aug-2001 Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
 
  Fair enough. Although, I never said you were BAD, nor bad ...
 
 No you never said I understood it like that.
 

God forbid me !! 



 
 Then she has the wrong system administrator ;)
 

Yes, the one too busy to fix his machine, much less hers  ;o)

 
 Anyway as it seems your tone got better with this mail I will try to help
 solve your problem (hopefully ;)
 
 Get yourself:
 
 ftp://ftp.sad.it/pub/kde/local/bin/rh7x/ksendfax-2.0.0cvs-2.i386.rpm
 
 And try to install this.
 
 Greets,
 
   Jürgen
 
 --
 -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
 Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Italienallee 13/N   Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253
 I-39100 Bozen   Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug
 -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
 
 Anybody with money to burn will easily find someone to tend the fire.
 
 

I did solve the problem partially. 

After spending 1 hour, I found ksendfax that works on my wife's
machine. But it does not work properly. Some things work, some
not. But this is not mailing list for that product, so ...

I will have to spend one more hour to make it work eventually, if
ever. 

But it will never be as good as old feature that you have killed for
the reasons known only to you.

I want LyX to reigh, and it will not until lawyers and ice-cream
makers will be able to upgrade effortlessly.

That is all I wanted to say. 

-- 
Regards,
   __  ___ ___   __
  /  |/  /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__   MySQL AB, FullTime Developer
/_/  /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/   Larnaca, Cyprus
   ___/   www.mysql.com

RE: Changes in LyX

[Juergen Vigna]

Dear Sinisa!

I will Cc: this to the developers list so that all of this BAD people
know what you think!

On 29-Aug-2001 Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
 
 The internal fax-facility has been removed from LyX so you need an
 external program (Frontend) to the faxpackage you've installed to be
 able to fax your stuff with some confort. I use KSendFax for this as
 it uses the same addressbook format as the old implementation in LyX
 (which was both programmed by myself) if you don't have KDE installed
 then you can also try to compile/install xsendfax a Fax-Frontend identicall
 to the one included in LyX with the xforms library. Search it on ftp.sad.it.
 
 If you have such a Frontend the you can go into Edit-Preferences-Converters
 and input a converter for the Fax-Converter.
 
 From: Postscript
 To: Fax
 Converter: ksendfax $$i
 
 Hope this helps,
 
Jürgen
 
 
 No, it does not.
 
 SuSE 7.2 does not have ksendfax, nor does RedHat 7.*.
 
 Why have you done the above  ??
 
 It worked perfectly !!
 
 Now, I have to loose 3 hours of my work to find sources, build,
 install , tweak etc ... I do not have those 3 hours. I work 12 hours
 per day already.


Nonsense there are RPM packages for RedHat and I guess you can install
them also for SuSE and it takes you exactly 10secs to install it!


 This way you will loose all users, one by one. 


You mean all our users who used the OLD fax facility and who are not
dynamic enough to spend 10secs to install a program from a RPM package!


 I recommended LyX for invoicing and faxing to several folks. They all
 upgraded ( for their own reasons) and ask me what to do. They are
 lawyers etc, and they can't build, tweak etc. I told them : Switch to
 StarOffice. 


I recommend OpenOffice it is REALLY feature complete VERY fast, has a
wonderful print engine, just it segfaults from time to time and to input
some text you need quite some time as the screen/redraw seems a bit slow.


 So, what should we do ??


You gave yourself an answer above didn't you!


 If we in MySQL would do such nonsense as you do with LyX, we would be
 without users. 
 
 What you could do 5 years ago with MySQL, you can do today. Are there
 new and better ways today ?? Yes, but those new features do not kill
 old features. None.


Well I have a big smile now on my face, we're using MySQL and it seems
it gets slower and slower at every release, especially joins with range
values takes forever to complete on a medium/large sized database, I don't
really call this good behavior, but We probably see that from a different
perspective that you REALLY BRAVE mysql developers!


 You, LyX developers,  are all very irresponsible people, and if you
 continue that way, LyX will have not much of the future, although it
 is a best word processor around.


It's no word processor it's a document processor, but thanks for the
compliment!


 If you make a single change in some other feature, like HTML
 generation, that would require another 3 hours of my work, I will
 erase LyX.
 
 So, what should I do ??


You gave yourself an answer already for this question didn't you!

How are people called who do personal emails like this one to OpenSource
developers, ..., hmm, ..., let me think, ..., ah I got it, I think the
right term I heard on the net was Lamers isn't it? There are people
who terminated projects because of people like you, but you know, I'm
just to happy with my life to let me touch by such overbearingness!

Have a nice day,

 Jürgen

--
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Italienallee 13/N   Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253
I-39100 Bozen   Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._

Great acts are made up of small deeds.
-- Lao Tsu

Re: Changes in LyX

[Andre Poenitz]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:57:08AM +0200, Juergen Vigna wrote:
  SuSE 7.2 does not have ksendfax, nor does RedHat 7.*.
  
  Why have you done the above  ??
  
  It worked perfectly !!
  
  Now, I have to loose 3 hours of my work to find sources, build,
  install , tweak etc ... I do not have those 3 hours.

SuSE 7.1 rpms are on

http://cgi.tu-chemnitz.de/ftp-home///pub/linux/suse/ftp.suse.c
om/suse/i386/7.1/suse/kpa1/ksendfax.rpm

It took me less than a minute to locate, download, su, and install.
Haven't checked whether it works since I do not have a fax machine.

  I work 12 hours per day already.

And that means what?

Andre'

-- 
André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Changes in LyX

[Kayvan A. Sylvan]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:05:15AM +0200, Andre Poenitz wrote:
 
 It took me less than a minute to locate, download, su, and install.
 Haven't checked whether it works since I do not have a fax machine.
 
   I work 12 hours per day already.
 
 And that means what?

It means he's a slacker! I work about 14 hours a day and I spend an hour
or two on top of that doing other non-work work. ;-)

Sleep, what is that? Sleep is for WIMPS and LOSERS!

-- 
Kayvan A. Sylvan  | Proud husband of   | Father to my kids:
Sylvan Associates, Inc.   | Laura Isabella Sylvan  | Katherine Yelena (8/8/89)
http://sylvan.com/~kayvan | crown of her husband | Robin Gregory (2/28/92)

RE: Changes in LyX

[Sinisa Milivojevic]

Juergen Vigna writes:
 Dear Sinisa!
 
 I will Cc: this to the developers list so that all of this BAD people
 know what you think!
 

Fair enough. Although, I never said you were BAD, nor bad ...

 
 Nonsense there are RPM packages for RedHat and I guess you can install
 them also for SuSE and it takes you exactly 10secs to install it!
 

Sorry, you are wrong. There is neither ksendfax nor xsendfax in SuSE
7.2 and you can not install packages from 7.1. Check it out. I have
all 7 CD's here with me. 

 You mean all our users who used the OLD fax facility and who are not
 dynamic enough to spend 10secs to install a program from a RPM package!
 

The issue is that it is not 10 secs. I have told you about SuSE and I
phoned my friend who has RH 7.1 and he told me the same thing. 

There are ksendfax RPM's on ksendfax SourceForge page, but none will
install. 

 
  So, what should we do ??
 
 
 You gave yourself an answer above didn't you!
 

No , I did not give the answer. My wife refuses to install from
source. She wants, just as most other users to have controlled RPM
installation of what she needs.

 
  
  What you could do 5 years ago with MySQL, you can do today. Are there
  new and better ways today ?? Yes, but those new features do not kill
  old features. None.
 
 
 Well I have a big smile now on my face, we're using MySQL and it seems
 it gets slower and slower at every release, especially joins with range
 values takes forever to complete on a medium/large sized database, I don't
 really call this good behavior, but We probably see that from a different
 perspective that you REALLY BRAVE mysql developers!
 

Why are you changing the issue ?? I was speaking about removing
features , not about speed. I did not say LyX is slower or faster. 

I said that what you did 5 years ago with MySQL, you can do today. Are
there better ways to do same thing today. Yes, many, but none of them
killed the old feature. 

Regarding speed, 4.0 will be soon out and you will definitely see
speed improvements. If you have any questions on improving join
speeds, please feel free to write to me directly. I use LyX for all
documentation and it is fair to give back something in return
... Anyway, it is possible your join speeds deteriorated due to larger
tables, not because of MySQL. And you probably did not run ANALYZE
TABLE periodically to help MySQL optimizer do a better job.

 You gave yourself an answer already for this question didn't you!
 

No, I did not. My wife installed LyX from SuSE 7.0 and it sent
faxes. How can  LyX be installed from SuSE 7.2 or RH 7.1, through a
normal RPM installation. 

 How are people called who do personal emails like this one to OpenSource
 developers, ..., hmm, ..., let me think, ..., ah I got it, I think the
 right term I heard on the net was Lamers isn't it? There are people
 who terminated projects because of people like you, but you know, I'm
 just to happy with my life to let me touch by such overbearingness!
 
 Have a nice day,
 
  Jürgen
 
 --
 -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
 Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Italienallee 13/N   Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253
 I-39100 Bozen   Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug
 -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
 
 Great acts are made up of small deeds.
 -- Lao Tsu
 
 


No, I am not a 'Lamer'. I just ask: Why kill something that works fine


And fax sending from previous LyX worked perfectly. 

We should learn from competition if we are not sure. 

Even that rubbish of MS Word has fax sending in the same place it was
5 years ago 

-- 
Regards,
   __  ___ ___   __
  /  |/  /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__   MySQL AB, FullTime Developer
/_/  /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/   Larnaca, Cyprus
   ___/   www.mysql.com

Re: Changes in LyX

[John O'Gorman]

Please all you developers of LyX (regardless of how it is pronounced)
don't be discouraged by the complaint replied to below.

I regard LyX as the best piece of software ever!

For me it has changed writing documentation (the task I used to hate
most) into a joy.  I can produce high quality, superb looking books
at lightning speed with no thought for anything but the content.

It works the way I believe document processors should - you simply
write (marking up the logical divisions of the text appropriately)
and the software does all the rest.
No fussing over fonts, sizes, layout, hyphenation.  Production of Tables 
of contents, automatic (re)numbering of sections etc. all come with no
effort by the author.

Another bonus is its superb output of which I feel (quite unjustifiably)
proud. This, of course, is the work of LaTeX rather than LyX.

But LyX has eliminated the need for learning LaTeX, the need to have
good aesthetic judgment, and the need for any typsetting skill or
judgement.

Please! Please keep up the good work. 
Most of us know that you cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs.
So glitches in progress towards ultimate mirvana are inevitable.
As a professional software developer, I appreciate the contribution
you have made to my quality of life.

Best wishes

John O'Gorman


Andre Poenitz wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:57:08AM +0200, Juergen Vigna wrote:
> > > SuSE 7.2 does not have ksendfax, nor does RedHat 7.*.
> > >
> > > Why have you done the above  ??
> > >
> > > It worked perfectly !!
> > >
> > > Now, I have to loose 3 hours of my work to find sources, build,
> > > install , tweak etc ... I do not have those 3 hours.
> 
> SuSE 7.1 rpms are on
> 
> http://cgi.tu-chemnitz.de/ftp-home///pub/linux/suse/ftp.suse.c
> om/suse/i386/7.1/suse/kpa1/ksendfax.rpm
> 
> It took me less than a minute to locate, download, su, and install.
> Haven't checked whether it works since I do not have a fax machine.
> 
> > > I work 12 hours per day already.
> 
> And that means what?
> 
> Andre'
> 
> --
> André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Changes in LyX

[Thomas Schönhoff]

Hello all,

I am totally agree to John's statement (although not being a
professional software developer! :-) ). Hopefully no ones basic
motivation has been serioussly damaged by this little crappy thread
before!

All the best from an (almost) totally satified user

Thomas

John O'Gorman wrote:
> 
> Please all you developers of LyX (regardless of how it is pronounced)
> don't be discouraged by the complaint replied to below.
> 
> I regard LyX as the best piece of software ever!
> 
> For me it has changed writing documentation (the task I used to hate
> most) into a joy.  I can produce high quality, superb looking books
> at lightning speed with no thought for anything but the content.
> 
> It works the way I believe document processors should - you simply
> write (marking up the logical divisions of the text appropriately)
> and the software does all the rest.
> No fussing over fonts, sizes, layout, hyphenation.  Production of Tables
> of contents, automatic (re)numbering of sections etc. all come with no
> effort by the author.
> 
> Another bonus is its superb output of which I feel (quite unjustifiably)
> proud. This, of course, is the work of LaTeX rather than LyX.
> 
> But LyX has eliminated the need for learning LaTeX, the need to have
> good aesthetic judgment, and the need for any typsetting skill or
> judgement.
> 
> Please! Please keep up the good work.
> Most of us know that you cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs.
> So glitches in progress towards ultimate mirvana are inevitable.
> As a professional software developer, I appreciate the contribution
> you have made to my quality of life.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> John O'Gorman

Re: Changes in LyX

[Tuukka Toivonen]

On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:

> But it can not become that if you expect users to build anything from
> source. We at MySQL have learned that lesson 3 - 4 years ago.

I disagree. Compiling from source _doesn't_ mean that the user
should be a programmer. It just has to be easy: it could be as
easy as installing a binary, even easier since you generally
need not to care so much about correct library versions or
even what computer architecture are you using.

The only downside is that compiling takes some time. But with
fast computers it is not a big deal, I think.

The problem presently is that the C and especially C++
APIs and system environments tend to change often and you need
to modify some bit in the source to get it to compile.
But this is a thing that just should be standardized well enough
(not completely, but enough so that configure can do the rest).
(also one problem is the unstable compilers RedHat is using,
one would need a reliable compiler)

Of course, if a binary distribution doesn't work out of the
box there's usually nothing you can do and so it is "easier".

The GNU ./configure; make; make install is very good, but
for anybody even that is too difficult I guess. But a simple
graphical wraparound of the process should be easy to do.
(I have planned to do a GUI configure package installer,
although I have left it at the planning stage so far)

Re: Changes in LyX

[Juha Siltala]

Tuukka Toivonen wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
> 
> 
>>But it can not become that if you expect users to build anything from
>>source. We at MySQL have learned that lesson 3 - 4 years ago.
>>
--snip--
> 
> The GNU ./configure; make; make install is very good, but
> for anybody even that is too difficult I guess. But a simple
> graphical wraparound of the process should be easy to do.
> (I have planned to do a GUI configure package installer,
> although I have left it at the planning stage so far)
> 

check out kconfigure. Just a frienly face to the above process. Also, 
checkinstall, which replaces "make install" with "checkinstall" -- the 
result is an rpm.

Find these utilities with google: no time to search now. (I'm moving so 
I'll be offline for a while now.)


-- 

|  Juha Siltala |  Mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |
|  Maahisentie 2K A8|  Tel : +358  8 554 3591|
|  90550 Oulu, Finland  |  GSM : +358 40 718 4743|

Re: Changes in LyX

[Renaud MICHEL]

Le Jeudi 30 Août 2001 12:27, vous avez écrit :
> Please all you developers of LyX (regardless of how it is pronounced)
> don't be discouraged by the complaint replied to below.

I agree, from time to time it is good that satisfied users say how they like 
a program and I really like LyX, it is great, keep going.

Just another satisfied user. (j'ajouterais bien comblé si je savait comment 
le dire en anglais ;-) ).

-- 
J'ai la memoire photographique,
mais elle n'est pas encore developee...
-- Stauf, "La 11e heure"

Renaud MICHEL

Re: Changes in LyX

[James Lindenschmidt]

Tuukka Toivonen Spoke Thusly:
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
> > But it can not become that if you expect users to build anything from
> > source. We at MySQL have learned that lesson 3 - 4 years ago.
>
> I disagree. Compiling from source _doesn't_ mean that the user
> should be a programmer. It just has to be easy: it could be as
> easy as installing a binary, even easier since you generally
> need not to care so much about correct library versions or
> even what computer architecture are you using.

Speaking as a user of Linux (I am very much not a developer), I must agree 
with Sinisa here. On my Debian system, I will almost always opt to use an 
older version of software that I can install via apt or dpkg, rather than 
compiling from source. I am not afraid to compile from source, providing it 
goes well, but I'd much rather use my packaging system. Debian's packaging 
system, with which I'm most familiar as a user, is very solid and I'd prefer 
to let it do all the sysadmin work whenever possible.

Interesting discussion...LyX rules. I'm so glad it's available to me for my 
writing. Thank you everyone!
-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Changes in LyX

[Kathryn Andersen]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 12:27:03PM -0400, James Lindenschmidt wrote:
> Tuukka Toivonen Spoke Thusly:
> > On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
> > > But it can not become that if you expect users to build anything from
> > > source. We at MySQL have learned that lesson 3 - 4 years ago.
> >
> > I disagree. Compiling from source _doesn't_ mean that the user
> > should be a programmer. It just has to be easy: it could be as
> > easy as installing a binary, even easier since you generally
> > need not to care so much about correct library versions or
> > even what computer architecture are you using.
> 
> Speaking as a user of Linux (I am very much not a developer), I must agree 
> with Sinisa here. On my Debian system, I will almost always opt to use an 
> older version of software that I can install via apt or dpkg, rather than 
> compiling from source. I am not afraid to compile from source, providing it 
> goes well, but I'd much rather use my packaging system. Debian's packaging 
> system, with which I'm most familiar as a user, is very solid and I'd prefer 
> to let it do all the sysadmin work whenever possible.

I agree -- if I install something, I want to be able to use a packaging
system (in my case, RPM not DEB); not because I can't compile things (me
computer professional, me know how to type "configure;make;make install")
but because packaging systems are designed to be upgradable and easily
uninstallable (do any of these source packages have "make uninstall"?
I don't think so!)  With a packaging system, if an upgrade doesn't work,
I can easily roll back to the previous version I had which did work
(like I had to do recently for vlc...)

Fortunately, source RPMs are a useful solution.  If the binary RPM I get
for something doesn't work, then I look for a source RPM; that way it
will figure out what I have on my system, configure accordingly, and
most of the time it works.

And I only have to type one more line than before.

rpm -rebuild .rpm
rpm -Uvh /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/.rpm

(Lyx rocks... but I'm afraid I still haven't upgraded yet to 1.1.6fix3;
other things to do...)

Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"A fool takes no pleasure in understanding,
 but only in expressing his opinion."   Proverbs 18:2
-- 
 _--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
/  \|   
\_.--.*/|   
  v | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha!  |   -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe

Re: Changes in LyX

[John Levon]

On Fri, Aug 31, 2001 at 10:59:33AM +1000, Kathryn Andersen wrote:

> I agree -- if I install something, I want to be able to use a packaging
> system (in my case, RPM not DEB); not because I can't compile things (me

this thread is getting so offtopic it's like a lyx-devel thread ;)

I'm sure Kayvan would be happy to receive working SuSE 7.2 RPMs, and any
other build people do.

regards
john

-- 
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word."
- Andrew Jackson

Re: Changes in LyX

[Sinisa Milivojevic]

Andre Poenitz writes:
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:57:08AM +0200, Juergen Vigna wrote:
> SuSE 7.1 rpms are on
> 
> http://cgi.tu-chemnitz.de/ftp-home///pub/linux/suse/ftp.suse.c
> om/suse/i386/7.1/suse/kpa1/ksendfax.rpm
> 
> It took me less than a minute to locate, download, su, and install.
> Haven't checked whether it works since I do not have a fax machine.
> 

Have you tried to install it on SuSE 7.2 ??

Try it !

> Andre'
> 
> -- 
> André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

I wish LyX becomes most popular document (not word) processor in the
world, as it IS the best. 

But it can not become that if you expect users to build anything from
source. We at MySQL have learned that lesson 3 - 4 years ago.

You should set your target group at non-programmers. People like
lawyers, ice-cream makers (you had one user I know off that made
ice-cream) etc ...

-- 
Regards,
   __  ___ ___   __
  /  |/  /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__   MySQL AB, FullTime Developer
/_/  /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/   Larnaca, Cyprus
   <___/   www.mysql.com

Re: Changes in LyX

[Andre Poenitz]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:45:39PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
> Have you tried to install it on SuSE 7.2 ??
> 
> Try it !

No. Simply because I don't have 7.2.

Why does the 7.1 package not install?

Andre'

-- 
André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Changes in LyX

[Sinisa Milivojevic]

Andre Poenitz writes:
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:45:39PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
> > Have you tried to install it on SuSE 7.2 ??
> > 
> > Try it !
> 
> No. Simply because I don't have 7.2.
> 
> Why does the 7.1 package not install?
> 
> Andre'
> 
> -- 
> André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

Differences in KDE libs versions ...

-- 
Regards,
   __  ___ ___   __
  /  |/  /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__   MySQL AB, FullTime Developer
/_/  /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/   Larnaca, Cyprus
   <___/   www.mysql.com

Re: Changes in LyX

[Kayvan A. Sylvan]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 03:33:50PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
> Andre Poenitz writes:
> > On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 02:45:39PM +0300, Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
> > > Have you tried to install it on SuSE 7.2 ??
> > > 
> > > Try it !
> > 
> > No. Simply because I don't have 7.2.
> > 
> > Why does the 7.1 package not install?
> > 
> > Andre'
> 
> Differences in KDE libs versions ...

Okay, then he should make himself a custom RPM by doing an
``rpm --rebuild ksendfax_blah.src.rpm'' and then install the resulting
RPM.

-- 
Kayvan A. Sylvan  | Proud husband of   | Father to my kids:
Sylvan Associates, Inc.   | Laura Isabella Sylvan  | Katherine Yelena (8/8/89)
http://sylvan.com/~kayvan | "crown of her husband" | Robin Gregory (2/28/92)

RE: Changes in LyX

[Juergen Vigna]

On 30-Aug-2001 Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:

> Fair enough. Although, I never said you were BAD, nor bad ...

No you never said I understood it like that.

> Sorry, you are wrong. There is neither ksendfax nor xsendfax in SuSE
> 7.2 and you can not install packages from 7.1. Check it out. I have
> all 7 CD's here with me. 

Well we cannot provide all external software which is needed for LyX and
anyway "we" all blame "Him" (he knows) to remove this part of code, but
anyway we agreed with it and so be it.

> The issue is that it is not 10 secs. I have told you about SuSE and I
> phoned my friend who has RH 7.1 and he told me the same thing. 

Well I surely have RH 7.1 installed and there surely is a package for
RH 7.1 which will install.

> No , I did not give the answer. My wife refuses to install from
> source. She wants, just as most other users to have controlled RPM
> installation of what she needs.

Then she has the wrong system administrator ;)

> No, I am not a 'Lamer'. I just ask: Why kill something that works fine
> 

Well the tone makes the mail, you can always "ask", but your mail was not
a question is was an accusation with the implication that you would make
it a lot better.

> And fax sending from previous LyX worked perfectly. 
> 
> We should learn from competition if we are not sure. 
> 
> Even that rubbish of MS Word has fax sending in the same place it was
> 5 years ago 

Anyway as it seems your "tone" got better with this mail I will try to help
solve your problem (hopefully ;)

Get yourself:

ftp://ftp.sad.it/pub/kde/local/bin/rh7x/ksendfax-2.0.0cvs-2.i386.rpm

And try to install this.

Greets,

  Jürgen

--
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Italienallee 13/N   Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253
I-39100 Bozen   Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._

Anybody with money to burn will easily find someone to tend the fire.

RE: Changes in LyX

[Sinisa Milivojevic]

Juergen Vigna writes:
> 
> On 30-Aug-2001 Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
> 
> > Fair enough. Although, I never said you were BAD, nor bad ...
> 
> No you never said I understood it like that.
> 

God forbid me !! 



> 
> Then she has the wrong system administrator ;)
> 

Yes, the one too busy to fix his machine, much less hers  ;o)

> 
> Anyway as it seems your "tone" got better with this mail I will try to help
> solve your problem (hopefully ;)
> 
> Get yourself:
> 
> ftp://ftp.sad.it/pub/kde/local/bin/rh7x/ksendfax-2.0.0cvs-2.i386.rpm
> 
> And try to install this.
> 
> Greets,
> 
>   Jürgen
> 
> --
> -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
> Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Italienallee 13/N   Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253
> I-39100 Bozen   Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug
> -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
> 
> Anybody with money to burn will easily find someone to tend the fire.
> 
> 

I did solve the problem partially. 

After spending 1 hour, I found ksendfax that works on my wife's
machine. But it does not work properly. Some things work, some
not. But this is not mailing list for that product, so ...

I will have to spend one more hour to make it work eventually, if
ever. 

But it will never be as good as old feature that you have killed for
the reasons known only to you.

I want LyX to reigh, and it will not until lawyers and ice-cream
makers will be able to upgrade effortlessly.

That is all I wanted to say. 

-- 
Regards,
   __  ___ ___   __
  /  |/  /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__   MySQL AB, FullTime Developer
/_/  /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/   Larnaca, Cyprus
   <___/   www.mysql.com

RE: Changes in LyX

[Juergen Vigna]

Dear Sinisa!

I will Cc: this to the developers list so that all of this "BAD" people
know what you think!

On 29-Aug-2001 Sinisa Milivojevic wrote:
> 
>> The internal fax-facility has been removed from LyX so you need an
>> external program (Frontend) to the faxpackage you've installed to be
>> able to fax your stuff with some confort. I use KSendFax for this as
>> it uses the same addressbook format as the old implementation in LyX
>> (which was both programmed by myself) if you don't have KDE installed
>> then you can also try to compile/install xsendfax a Fax-Frontend identicall
>> to the one included in LyX with the xforms library. Search it on ftp.sad.it.
>> 
>> If you have such a "Frontend" the you can go into Edit->Preferences->Converters
>> and input a converter for the "Fax-Converter".
>> 
>> From: Postscript
>> To: Fax
>> Converter: ksendfax $$i
>> 
>> Hope this helps,
>> 
>>Jürgen
> 
> 
> No, it does not.
> 
> SuSE 7.2 does not have ksendfax, nor does RedHat 7.*.
> 
> Why have you done the above  ??
> 
> It worked perfectly !!
> 
> Now, I have to loose 3 hours of my work to find sources, build,
> install , tweak etc ... I do not have those 3 hours. I work 12 hours
> per day already.


Nonsense there are RPM packages for RedHat and I guess you can install
them also for SuSE and it takes you exactly 10secs to install it!


> This way you will loose all users, one by one. 


You mean all our users who used the OLD fax facility and who are not
dynamic enough to spend 10secs to install a program from a RPM package!


> I recommended LyX for invoicing and faxing to several folks. They all
> upgraded ( for their own reasons) and ask me what to do. They are
> lawyers etc, and they can't build, tweak etc. I told them : Switch to
> StarOffice. 


I recommend OpenOffice it is REALLY feature complete VERY fast, has a
wonderful print engine, just it segfaults from time to time and to input
some text you need quite some time as the screen/redraw seems a bit slow.


> So, what should we do ??


You gave yourself an answer above didn't you!


> If we in MySQL would do such nonsense as you do with LyX, we would be
> without users. 
> 
> What you could do 5 years ago with MySQL, you can do today. Are there
> new and better ways today ?? Yes, but those new features do not kill
> old features. None.


Well I have a big smile now on my face, we're using MySQL and it seems
it gets slower and slower at every release, especially joins with range
values takes forever to complete on a medium/large sized database, I don't
really call this "good behavior", but We probably see that from a different
perspective that you "REALLY BRAVE" mysql developers!


> You, LyX developers,  are all very irresponsible people, and if you
> continue that way, LyX will have not much of the future, although it
> is a best word processor around.


It's no word processor it's a "document" processor, but thanks for the
compliment!


> If you make a single change in some other feature, like HTML
> generation, that would require another 3 hours of my work, I will
> erase LyX.
> 
> So, what should I do ??


You gave yourself an answer already for this question didn't you!

How are people called who do personal emails like this one to OpenSource
developers, ..., hmm, ..., let me think, ..., ah I got it, I think the
right term I heard on the net was "Lamers" isn't it? There are people
who terminated projects because of people like you, but you know, I'm
just to happy with my life to let me touch by such "overbearingness"!

Have a nice day,

 Jürgen

--
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Italienallee 13/N   Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253
I-39100 Bozen   Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug
-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._

Great acts are made up of small deeds.
-- Lao Tsu

Re: Changes in LyX

[Andre Poenitz]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 09:57:08AM +0200, Juergen Vigna wrote:
> > SuSE 7.2 does not have ksendfax, nor does RedHat 7.*.
> > 
> > Why have you done the above  ??
> > 
> > It worked perfectly !!
> > 
> > Now, I have to loose 3 hours of my work to find sources, build,
> > install , tweak etc ... I do not have those 3 hours.

SuSE 7.1 rpms are on

http://cgi.tu-chemnitz.de/ftp-home///pub/linux/suse/ftp.suse.c
om/suse/i386/7.1/suse/kpa1/ksendfax.rpm

It took me less than a minute to locate, download, su, and install.
Haven't checked whether it works since I do not have a fax machine.

> > I work 12 hours per day already.

And that means what?

Andre'

-- 
André Pönitz . [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Changes in LyX

[Kayvan A. Sylvan]

On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 10:05:15AM +0200, Andre Poenitz wrote:
> 
> It took me less than a minute to locate, download, su, and install.
> Haven't checked whether it works since I do not have a fax machine.
> 
> > > I work 12 hours per day already.
> 
> And that means what?

It means he's a slacker! I work about 14 hours a day and I spend an hour
or two on top of that doing other non-work work. ;-)

Sleep, what is that? Sleep is for WIMPS and LOSERS!

-- 
Kayvan A. Sylvan  | Proud husband of   | Father to my kids:
Sylvan Associates, Inc.   | Laura Isabella Sylvan  | Katherine Yelena (8/8/89)
http://sylvan.com/~kayvan | "crown of her husband" | Robin Gregory (2/28/92)

RE: Changes in LyX

[Sinisa Milivojevic]

Juergen Vigna writes:
> Dear Sinisa!
> 
> I will Cc: this to the developers list so that all of this "BAD" people
> know what you think!
> 

Fair enough. Although, I never said you were BAD, nor bad ...

> 
> Nonsense there are RPM packages for RedHat and I guess you can install
> them also for SuSE and it takes you exactly 10secs to install it!
> 

Sorry, you are wrong. There is neither ksendfax nor xsendfax in SuSE
7.2 and you can not install packages from 7.1. Check it out. I have
all 7 CD's here with me. 

> You mean all our users who used the OLD fax facility and who are not
> dynamic enough to spend 10secs to install a program from a RPM package!
> 

The issue is that it is not 10 secs. I have told you about SuSE and I
phoned my friend who has RH 7.1 and he told me the same thing. 

There are ksendfax RPM's on ksendfax SourceForge page, but none will
install. 

> 
> > So, what should we do ??
> 
> 
> You gave yourself an answer above didn't you!
> 

No , I did not give the answer. My wife refuses to install from
source. She wants, just as most other users to have controlled RPM
installation of what she needs.

> 
> > 
> > What you could do 5 years ago with MySQL, you can do today. Are there
> > new and better ways today ?? Yes, but those new features do not kill
> > old features. None.
> 
> 
> Well I have a big smile now on my face, we're using MySQL and it seems
> it gets slower and slower at every release, especially joins with range
> values takes forever to complete on a medium/large sized database, I don't
> really call this "good behavior", but We probably see that from a different
> perspective that you "REALLY BRAVE" mysql developers!
> 

Why are you changing the issue ?? I was speaking about removing
features , not about speed. I did not say LyX is slower or faster. 

I said that what you did 5 years ago with MySQL, you can do today. Are
there better ways to do same thing today. Yes, many, but none of them
killed the old feature. 

Regarding speed, 4.0 will be soon out and you will definitely see
speed improvements. If you have any questions on improving join
speeds, please feel free to write to me directly. I use LyX for all
documentation and it is fair to give back something in return
... Anyway, it is possible your join speeds deteriorated due to larger
tables, not because of MySQL. And you probably did not run ANALYZE
TABLE periodically to help MySQL optimizer do a better job.

> You gave yourself an answer already for this question didn't you!
> 

No, I did not. My wife installed LyX from SuSE 7.0 and it sent
faxes. How can  LyX be installed from SuSE 7.2 or RH 7.1, through a
normal RPM installation. 

> How are people called who do personal emails like this one to OpenSource
> developers, ..., hmm, ..., let me think, ..., ah I got it, I think the
> right term I heard on the net was "Lamers" isn't it? There are people
> who terminated projects because of people like you, but you know, I'm
> just to happy with my life to let me touch by such "overbearingness"!
> 
> Have a nice day,
> 
>  Jürgen
> 
> --
> -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
> Dr. Jürgen VignaE-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Italienallee 13/N   Tel/Fax: +39-0471-450260 / +39-0471-450253
> I-39100 Bozen   Web: http://www.sad.it/~jug
> -._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._-._
> 
> Great acts are made up of small deeds.
> -- Lao Tsu
> 
> 


No, I am not a 'Lamer'. I just ask: Why kill something that works fine


And fax sending from previous LyX worked perfectly. 

We should learn from competition if we are not sure. 

Even that rubbish of MS Word has fax sending in the same place it was
5 years ago 

-- 
Regards,
   __  ___ ___   __
  /  |/  /_ __/ __/ __ \/ /Mr. Sinisa Milivojevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__   MySQL AB, FullTime Developer
/_/  /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/   Larnaca, Cyprus
   <___/   www.mysql.com