Re: Templates for the new website

[christian . ridderstrom]

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Joost Verburg wrote:


 to the URI. We do not need to restrict ourselve to one skin only.


We really should not have multiple designs for our web site. One 
official skin is enough.


I don't see why not, especially as the current site has two slightly 
different skins. You could of course argue that these are the same from a 
point of view of appearance, they just offer different functionality and 
readability.



 However, in practie we'll probably only fully support one skin. As for
 what design to use for the official web site, I can't say I've seen a
 consensus (yet) of what design to use. I'm a design illiterate, so
 I'm just waiting for consensus to arrive, and saying that what we have
 is good enough.


As I understand it, the consensus is that the current design is much 
better than before and that we will continue to improve it if we receive 
more feedback / suggestions. Is that right Rex / Andrei?


The current design is a _huge_ improvement, and I really like the work 
you (Joost) have done. However, this is all voluntary work and we may 
develop what we like, so I think it's up to Rex/Andrei to decide if they'd 
like to try to make a different design.


I don't see the need for hurrying either, I'd like to take the current 
test site and turn into the live one shortly. Once that's done, it'll be 
perfectly safe to try an alternative design on the previous test site.


-- appearance of wiki v.s. web site

Yes, they are different. But I think the design should still be somewhat 
consistent.


In terms of colours and general appearance for sure, but in terms of page 
layout I think they probably _have_ to be different. The web pages have 
the following elements:


* Logotype
* top area (with just the page name and a login link)
* sidebar
* main area

The current wiki OTOH in addition has:
* Search field
* A more complicated sidebar
* Drop down list to go to a page
* A 'wiki trail' at the top (it should go into some separate area on the
  page)
* A list of categories the page belongs to (should also go to a separate
  area)
* A footer with various links in it

Other wiki skins use things that we may want as well:
* three column layout
* a little area that indicates _where_ in the wiki you currently are
  I like this, see e.g. http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/BlueBerrySkin
* 'tab'-thingys for edit/view/print/etc, see e.g.
  http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/MonobookSkin

The list goes on, and there's plenty to look at here:
http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/Skins

However, I agree that we should not start changing the wiki before the web 
pages have gone live, _and_ have been stable for a while.  (I simply don't 
have time for it).


Best regards
/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44   http://www.md.kth.se/~chr

Re: Templates for the new website

[christian . ridderstrom]

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Joost Verburg wrote:


 to the URI. We do not need to restrict ourselve to one skin only.


We really should not have multiple designs for our web site. One 
official skin is enough.


I don't see why not, especially as the current site has two slightly 
different skins. You could of course argue that these are the same from a 
point of view of appearance, they just offer different functionality and 
readability.



 However, in practie we'll probably only fully support one skin. As for
 what design to use for the official web site, I can't say I've seen a
 consensus (yet) of what design to use. I'm a design illiterate, so
 I'm just waiting for consensus to arrive, and saying that what we have
 is good enough.


As I understand it, the consensus is that the current design is much 
better than before and that we will continue to improve it if we receive 
more feedback / suggestions. Is that right Rex / Andrei?


The current design is a _huge_ improvement, and I really like the work 
you (Joost) have done. However, this is all voluntary work and we may 
develop what we like, so I think it's up to Rex/Andrei to decide if they'd 
like to try to make a different design.


I don't see the need for hurrying either, I'd like to take the current 
test site and turn into the live one shortly. Once that's done, it'll be 
perfectly safe to try an alternative design on the previous test site.


-- appearance of wiki v.s. web site

Yes, they are different. But I think the design should still be somewhat 
consistent.


In terms of colours and general appearance for sure, but in terms of page 
layout I think they probably _have_ to be different. The web pages have 
the following elements:


* Logotype
* top area (with just the page name and a login link)
* sidebar
* main area

The current wiki OTOH in addition has:
* Search field
* A more complicated sidebar
* Drop down list to go to a page
* A 'wiki trail' at the top (it should go into some separate area on the
  page)
* A list of categories the page belongs to (should also go to a separate
  area)
* A footer with various links in it

Other wiki skins use things that we may want as well:
* three column layout
* a little area that indicates _where_ in the wiki you currently are
  I like this, see e.g. http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/BlueBerrySkin
* 'tab'-thingys for edit/view/print/etc, see e.g.
  http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/MonobookSkin

The list goes on, and there's plenty to look at here:
http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/Skins

However, I agree that we should not start changing the wiki before the web 
pages have gone live, _and_ have been stable for a while.  (I simply don't 
have time for it).


Best regards
/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44   http://www.md.kth.se/~chr

Re: Templates for the new website

[christian . ridderstrom]

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Joost Verburg wrote:


 to the URI. We do not need to restrict ourselve to one skin only.


We really should not have multiple designs for our web site. One 
official skin is enough.


I don't see why not, especially as the current site has two slightly 
different skins. You could of course argue that these are the same from a 
point of view of appearance, they just offer different functionality and 
readability.



 However, in practie we'll probably only fully support one skin. As for
 what design to use for the official web site, I can't say I've seen a
 consensus (yet) of what design to use. I'm a "design illiterate", so
 I'm just waiting for consensus to arrive, and saying that what we have
 is "good enough".


As I understand it, the consensus is that the current design is much 
better than before and that we will continue to improve it if we receive 
more feedback / suggestions. Is that right Rex / Andrei?


The current design is a _huge_ improvement, and I really like the work 
you (Joost) have done. However, this is all voluntary work and we may 
develop what we like, so I think it's up to Rex/Andrei to decide if they'd 
like to try to make a different design.


I don't see the need for hurrying either, I'd like to take the current 
test site and turn into the live one shortly. Once that's done, it'll be 
perfectly safe to try an alternative design on the previous test site.


-- appearance of wiki v.s. web site

Yes, they are different. But I think the design should still be somewhat 
consistent.


In terms of colours and general appearance for sure, but in terms of page 
layout I think they probably _have_ to be different. The web pages have 
the following elements:


* Logotype
* top area (with just the page name and a login link)
* sidebar
* main area

The current wiki OTOH in addition has:
* Search field
* A more complicated sidebar
* Drop down list to go to a page
* A 'wiki trail' at the top (it should go into some separate area on the
  page)
* A list of categories the page belongs to (should also go to a separate
  area)
* A footer with various links in it

Other wiki skins use things that we may want as well:
* three column layout
* a little area that indicates _where_ in the wiki you currently are
  I like this, see e.g. http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/BlueBerrySkin
* 'tab'-thingys for edit/view/print/etc, see e.g.
  http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/MonobookSkin

The list goes on, and there's plenty to look at here:
http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/Skins

However, I agree that we should not start changing the wiki before the web 
pages have gone live, _and_ have been stable for a while.  (I simply don't 
have time for it).


Best regards
/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44   http://www.md.kth.se/~chr

Templates for the new website

[Rex C. Eastbourne]

Thanks for the feedback on the site, everyone!

Here are some templates our designer Andrei picked out as possibilities 
for the new website. What do you guys like most out of these (and the 
current one on the site)?


Bright Pixel: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3021
Black Box: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3106
Flowered: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2864
Nautica: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2828

We can probably make some modifications if there's a small thing people 
don't like about a particular design.


If you see something on http://www.oswd.org/ (Open Source Web Design) 
that you like, feel free to suggest that one.


Rex

Re: Templates for the new website

[John Coppens]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:19:53 -0400
Rex C. Eastbourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Here are some templates our designer Andrei picked out as possibilities 
 for the new website. What do you guys like most out of these (and the 
 current one on the site)?

I like the third option - it's very clean, good contrast (though I'd like
a off-white background).

Now, why do web-designers insist on wanting my browser to show text
smaller than the one I configured? Most, if not all of these templates
find it necessary to define the body text as 65-80% of the defined font
size (in the stylesheet).

From

http://www.bigbaer.com/css_tutorials/css_font_size.htm

I gather this is practice is very common...

John

Re: Templates for the new website

[Rich Shepard]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rex C. Eastbourne wrote:


Bright Pixel: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3021


Rex,

  Very difficult to read because there's not sufficient contrast between the
background and the text. It may be OK for 20-something-year-old eyes, but
not for us old curmudgeons. This applies to the bright colors on the grey
header as well as the grey text on the white background.


Black Box: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3106


  Same thing. If the text is bright white rather than grey, it would be OK.
But, the header still is terrible. Actually, the black background is much
easier on my eyes than are white backgrounds.


Flowered: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2864


  Grey header band has the same contrast issue. The main portion of the page
is quite readable, but ... the flower is so bright it makes me squint and is
very uncomfortable to see.


Nautica: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2828


  Again, insufficient contrast of text and background.


We can probably make some modifications if there's a small thing people
don't like about a particular design.


  I'm not a graphic person so I have no preference of one layout. They can
all work. What I immediately notice is whether the text is easily readable.
Other than the flowered design, they aren't. But, they are easily corrected.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
http://www.appl-ecosys.com Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: Templates for the new website

[curtis osterhoudt]

I like all of the page templates. My *least* favorite is Black Box, because 
the text seems hard to read (gray on a black background?) and I keep peering at 
the page to see if there are images hidden in the background.

   http://www.lyx.org/test/index.php/Main/HomePage is really quite attractive 
(perhaps the other templates would be equally or moreso, once LyX-specific 
content is put on). 

   


 
/
  Down with categorical imperative!
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
/

- Original Message 
From: Rex C. Eastbourne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 9:19:53 AM
Subject: Templates for the new website

Thanks for the feedback on the site, everyone!

Here are some templates our designer Andrei picked out as possibilities 
for the new website. What do you guys like most out of these (and the 
current one on the site)?

Bright Pixel: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3021
Black Box: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3106
Flowered: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2864
Nautica: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2828

We can probably make some modifications if there's a small thing people 
don't like about a particular design.

If you see something on http://www.oswd.org/ (Open Source Web Design) 
that you like, feel free to suggest that one.

Rex






  

Like movies? Here's a limited-time offer: Blockbuster Total Access for one 
month at no cost. 
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text4.com

Re: Templates for the new website

[John Coppens]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:00:15 -0300
John Coppens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Now, why do web-designers insist on wanting my browser to show text
 smaller than the one I configured? Most, if not all of these templates
 find it necessary to define the body text as 65-80% of the defined font
 size (in the stylesheet).

Note this recommendation from the W3C consortium:

http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/font-size

quote:
Size: respect the users' preferences, avoid small size for content

* As a base font size for a document, 1em (or 100%) is equivalent to
setting the font size to the user's preference. Use this as a basis for
your font sizes, and avoid setting a smaller base font size
* Avoid sizes in em smaller than 1em for text body, except maybe for
copyright statements or other kinds of fine print.

end quote...

John

Re: Templates for the new website

[Rex C. Eastbourne]

Thanks for your input, everyone. On second thought, it might be best to 
just stick with the template we have now, since Joost and Christian have 
put a lot of work into getting it to work right. I think the current 
template looks really good.


Rex

Re: Templates for the new website

[Rich Shepard]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rex C. Eastbourne wrote:


Thanks for your input, everyone. On second thought, it might be best to
just stick with the template we have now, since Joost and Christian have
put a lot of work into getting it to work right. I think the current
template looks really good.


Rex,

  Me, too. And it's readable.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
http://www.appl-ecosys.com Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: Templates for the new website

[Paul A. Rubin]

Rich Shepard wrote:

Bright Pixel: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3021

  Very difficult to read because there's not sufficient contrast between the
background and the text. It may be OK for 20-something-year-old eyes, but
not for us old curmudgeons.


It's also hard for us old non-curmudgeons; and that applies to three of 
the four designs.  (Was the Blackbox page designed by a Goth?)  The 
flowered one has adequate contrast, albeit with an unnecessarily tiny 
font (noted elsewhere).


I like the current format of the revised site better than any of these.

/Paul

Re: Templates for the new website

[christian . ridderstrom]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rich Shepard wrote:


On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rex C. Eastbourne wrote:


 Thanks for your input, everyone. On second thought, it might be best
 to just stick with the template we have now, since Joost and Christian
 have put a lot of work into getting it to work right. I think the
 current template looks really good.


Speaking for myself, I'll certainly be happy to install Andrei's 
suggestions as 'skins' on the site!


About skins, I'd love a new skin for wiki.lyx.org (hint, hint), but please 
note that it should _not_ be the same as for www.lyx.org. (See discussion 
on the devel list).


Best regards,
/Christian

PS. Seriously, I would like to try and install Andrei's work. Andrei, you 
can contact me off-list so we can work out details.


--
Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44   http://www.md.kth.se/~chr

Re: Templates for the new website

[Pavel Sanda]

 About skins, I'd love a new skin for wiki.lyx.org (hint, hint), but please 
 note that it should _not_ be the same as for www.lyx.org. (See discussion 
 on the devel list).

please at least for the wiki part use template which use full screen width.

pavel

Re: Templates for the new website

[Joost Verburg]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
PS. Seriously, I would like to try and install Andrei's work. Andrei, 
you can contact me off-list so we can work out details.


These are just a few example of open-source templates, it's not new work.

For the new official website it's we'll continue improving the current 
skin/design.


For the wiki I think it's the best option to either improve the standard 
Pmwiki skin or to use another Pmwiki skin and customize it. It should be 
a simple and flexible design because of the various types of content in 
the wiki.


However, it is probably easier to finish the official site first and 
then start working on the wiki. Then the wiki design can be adjusted to 
the final design of the official site.


Joost

Re: Templates for the new website

[Joost Verburg]

Pavel Sanda wrote:
About skins, I'd love a new skin for wiki.lyx.org (hint, hint), but please 
note that it should _not_ be the same as for www.lyx.org. (See discussion 
on the devel list).


please at least for the wiki part use template which use full screen width.


I agree. Because of the type of content on the wiki a full width screen 
is a good idea.


Joost

Re: Templates for the new website

[christian . ridderstrom]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote:


 PS. Seriously, I would like to try and install Andrei's work. Andrei,
 you can contact me off-list so we can work out details.


These are just a few example of open-source templates, it's not new 
work.


I know. I mean that if Andrei wants to create a template, I'll install it 
for testing on either the web site or the wiki site. I believe that if he 
invests time in creating a design, I think we owe him to give it a proper 
test, i.e.  in context. Then people can give their opinion, and ideally 
we'll merge the best features of the designs. (In a theoretical world with 
the needed resources etc etc).


For the new official website it's we'll continue improving the current 
skin/design.


Please note that users can choose their own skin by simply appending

?skin=...

to the URI. We do not need to restrict ourselve to one skin only.

However, in practie we'll probably only fully support one skin. As for 
what design to use for the official web site, I can't say I've seen a 
consensus (yet) of what design to use. I'm a design illiterate, so I'm 
just waiting for consensus to arrive, and saying that what we have is 
good enough.


Naturally I think the current design is _much_ better than before! 
However, if Andrei wants to make a design I'll install it so that we can 
compare them.


For the wiki I think it's the best option to either improve the standard 
Pmwiki skin or to use another Pmwiki skin and customize it. It should be 
a simple and flexible design because of the various types of content in 
the wiki.


I liked the nautica thing as a candidate for the wiki, the standard pmwiki 
skin is _ugly_ (and what we have today). I think simulating 'tabs' might 
be a good metaphor for the aspects with which a page can appear, e.g. 
'view', 'edit', 'history'.


However, it is probably easier to finish the official site first and 
then start working on the wiki. Then the wiki design can be adjusted to 
the final design of the official site.


Perhaps... I think they are _very_ different beasts, and that they 
therefore will benefit from designs/layouts that are different.  Just as a 
simple example, a search field is very important for a wiki, but less so 
for the official web site. The wiki needs much for methods or 
functions compared to a regular web site.


As with the web site, we can of course install different skins. Having a 
'standard' skin and an 'advanced' skin could be a good idea.


/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44   http://www.md.kth.se/~chr

Re: Templates for the new website

[Joost Verburg]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Please note that users can choose their own skin by simply appending

?skin=...

to the URI. We do not need to restrict ourselve to one skin only.


We really should not have multiple designs for our web site. One 
official skin is enough.


However, in practie we'll probably only fully support one skin. As for 
what design to use for the official web site, I can't say I've seen a 
consensus (yet) of what design to use. I'm a design illiterate, so I'm 
just waiting for consensus to arrive, and saying that what we have is 
good enough.


As I understand it, the consensus is that the current design is much 
better than before and that we will continue to improve it if we receive 
more feedback / suggestions. Is that right Rex / Andrei?


I liked the nautica thing as a candidate for the wiki, the standard 
pmwiki skin is _ugly_ (and what we have today). I think simulating 
'tabs' might be a good metaphor for the aspects with which a page can 
appear, e.g. 'view', 'edit', 'history'.


I think with some nice graphics this skin can look much better. It's 
easier to start with a Pmwiki skin than to write a new skin from scratch.


Perhaps... I think they are _very_ different beasts, and that they 
therefore will benefit from designs/layouts that are different.  Just as 
a simple example, a search field is very important for a wiki, but less 
so for the official web site. The wiki needs much for methods or 
functions compared to a regular web site.


Yes, they are different. But I think the design should still be somewhat 
consistent.


Joost

Re: Templates for the new website

[Rex C. Eastbourne]

Joost Verburg wrote:
As I understand it, the consensus is that the current design is much 
better than before and that we will continue to improve it if we 
receive more feedback / suggestions. Is that right Rex / Andrei?

That would be fine with me!

Rex

Templates for the new website

[Rex C. Eastbourne]

Thanks for the feedback on the site, everyone!

Here are some templates our designer Andrei picked out as possibilities 
for the new website. What do you guys like most out of these (and the 
current one on the site)?


Bright Pixel: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3021
Black Box: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3106
Flowered: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2864
Nautica: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2828

We can probably make some modifications if there's a small thing people 
don't like about a particular design.


If you see something on http://www.oswd.org/ (Open Source Web Design) 
that you like, feel free to suggest that one.


Rex

Re: Templates for the new website

[John Coppens]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:19:53 -0400
Rex C. Eastbourne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Here are some templates our designer Andrei picked out as possibilities 
 for the new website. What do you guys like most out of these (and the 
 current one on the site)?

I like the third option - it's very clean, good contrast (though I'd like
a off-white background).

Now, why do web-designers insist on wanting my browser to show text
smaller than the one I configured? Most, if not all of these templates
find it necessary to define the body text as 65-80% of the defined font
size (in the stylesheet).

From

http://www.bigbaer.com/css_tutorials/css_font_size.htm

I gather this is practice is very common...

John

Re: Templates for the new website

[Rich Shepard]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rex C. Eastbourne wrote:


Bright Pixel: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3021


Rex,

  Very difficult to read because there's not sufficient contrast between the
background and the text. It may be OK for 20-something-year-old eyes, but
not for us old curmudgeons. This applies to the bright colors on the grey
header as well as the grey text on the white background.


Black Box: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3106


  Same thing. If the text is bright white rather than grey, it would be OK.
But, the header still is terrible. Actually, the black background is much
easier on my eyes than are white backgrounds.


Flowered: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2864


  Grey header band has the same contrast issue. The main portion of the page
is quite readable, but ... the flower is so bright it makes me squint and is
very uncomfortable to see.


Nautica: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2828


  Again, insufficient contrast of text and background.


We can probably make some modifications if there's a small thing people
don't like about a particular design.


  I'm not a graphic person so I have no preference of one layout. They can
all work. What I immediately notice is whether the text is easily readable.
Other than the flowered design, they aren't. But, they are easily corrected.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
http://www.appl-ecosys.com Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: Templates for the new website

[curtis osterhoudt]

I like all of the page templates. My *least* favorite is Black Box, because 
the text seems hard to read (gray on a black background?) and I keep peering at 
the page to see if there are images hidden in the background.

   http://www.lyx.org/test/index.php/Main/HomePage is really quite attractive 
(perhaps the other templates would be equally or moreso, once LyX-specific 
content is put on). 

   


 
/
  Down with categorical imperative!
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
/

- Original Message 
From: Rex C. Eastbourne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 9:19:53 AM
Subject: Templates for the new website

Thanks for the feedback on the site, everyone!

Here are some templates our designer Andrei picked out as possibilities 
for the new website. What do you guys like most out of these (and the 
current one on the site)?

Bright Pixel: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3021
Black Box: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3106
Flowered: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2864
Nautica: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2828

We can probably make some modifications if there's a small thing people 
don't like about a particular design.

If you see something on http://www.oswd.org/ (Open Source Web Design) 
that you like, feel free to suggest that one.

Rex






  

Like movies? Here's a limited-time offer: Blockbuster Total Access for one 
month at no cost. 
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text4.com

Re: Templates for the new website

[John Coppens]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:00:15 -0300
John Coppens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Now, why do web-designers insist on wanting my browser to show text
 smaller than the one I configured? Most, if not all of these templates
 find it necessary to define the body text as 65-80% of the defined font
 size (in the stylesheet).

Note this recommendation from the W3C consortium:

http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/font-size

quote:
Size: respect the users' preferences, avoid small size for content

* As a base font size for a document, 1em (or 100%) is equivalent to
setting the font size to the user's preference. Use this as a basis for
your font sizes, and avoid setting a smaller base font size
* Avoid sizes in em smaller than 1em for text body, except maybe for
copyright statements or other kinds of fine print.

end quote...

John

Re: Templates for the new website

[Rex C. Eastbourne]

Thanks for your input, everyone. On second thought, it might be best to 
just stick with the template we have now, since Joost and Christian have 
put a lot of work into getting it to work right. I think the current 
template looks really good.


Rex

Re: Templates for the new website

[Rich Shepard]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rex C. Eastbourne wrote:


Thanks for your input, everyone. On second thought, it might be best to
just stick with the template we have now, since Joost and Christian have
put a lot of work into getting it to work right. I think the current
template looks really good.


Rex,

  Me, too. And it's readable.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
http://www.appl-ecosys.com Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: Templates for the new website

[Paul A. Rubin]

Rich Shepard wrote:

Bright Pixel: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3021

  Very difficult to read because there's not sufficient contrast between the
background and the text. It may be OK for 20-something-year-old eyes, but
not for us old curmudgeons.


It's also hard for us old non-curmudgeons; and that applies to three of 
the four designs.  (Was the Blackbox page designed by a Goth?)  The 
flowered one has adequate contrast, albeit with an unnecessarily tiny 
font (noted elsewhere).


I like the current format of the revised site better than any of these.

/Paul

Re: Templates for the new website

[christian . ridderstrom]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rich Shepard wrote:


On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rex C. Eastbourne wrote:


 Thanks for your input, everyone. On second thought, it might be best
 to just stick with the template we have now, since Joost and Christian
 have put a lot of work into getting it to work right. I think the
 current template looks really good.


Speaking for myself, I'll certainly be happy to install Andrei's 
suggestions as 'skins' on the site!


About skins, I'd love a new skin for wiki.lyx.org (hint, hint), but please 
note that it should _not_ be the same as for www.lyx.org. (See discussion 
on the devel list).


Best regards,
/Christian

PS. Seriously, I would like to try and install Andrei's work. Andrei, you 
can contact me off-list so we can work out details.


--
Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44   http://www.md.kth.se/~chr

Re: Templates for the new website

[Pavel Sanda]

 About skins, I'd love a new skin for wiki.lyx.org (hint, hint), but please 
 note that it should _not_ be the same as for www.lyx.org. (See discussion 
 on the devel list).

please at least for the wiki part use template which use full screen width.

pavel

Re: Templates for the new website

[Joost Verburg]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
PS. Seriously, I would like to try and install Andrei's work. Andrei, 
you can contact me off-list so we can work out details.


These are just a few example of open-source templates, it's not new work.

For the new official website it's we'll continue improving the current 
skin/design.


For the wiki I think it's the best option to either improve the standard 
Pmwiki skin or to use another Pmwiki skin and customize it. It should be 
a simple and flexible design because of the various types of content in 
the wiki.


However, it is probably easier to finish the official site first and 
then start working on the wiki. Then the wiki design can be adjusted to 
the final design of the official site.


Joost

Re: Templates for the new website

[Joost Verburg]

Pavel Sanda wrote:
About skins, I'd love a new skin for wiki.lyx.org (hint, hint), but please 
note that it should _not_ be the same as for www.lyx.org. (See discussion 
on the devel list).


please at least for the wiki part use template which use full screen width.


I agree. Because of the type of content on the wiki a full width screen 
is a good idea.


Joost

Re: Templates for the new website

[christian . ridderstrom]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote:


 PS. Seriously, I would like to try and install Andrei's work. Andrei,
 you can contact me off-list so we can work out details.


These are just a few example of open-source templates, it's not new 
work.


I know. I mean that if Andrei wants to create a template, I'll install it 
for testing on either the web site or the wiki site. I believe that if he 
invests time in creating a design, I think we owe him to give it a proper 
test, i.e.  in context. Then people can give their opinion, and ideally 
we'll merge the best features of the designs. (In a theoretical world with 
the needed resources etc etc).


For the new official website it's we'll continue improving the current 
skin/design.


Please note that users can choose their own skin by simply appending

?skin=...

to the URI. We do not need to restrict ourselve to one skin only.

However, in practie we'll probably only fully support one skin. As for 
what design to use for the official web site, I can't say I've seen a 
consensus (yet) of what design to use. I'm a design illiterate, so I'm 
just waiting for consensus to arrive, and saying that what we have is 
good enough.


Naturally I think the current design is _much_ better than before! 
However, if Andrei wants to make a design I'll install it so that we can 
compare them.


For the wiki I think it's the best option to either improve the standard 
Pmwiki skin or to use another Pmwiki skin and customize it. It should be 
a simple and flexible design because of the various types of content in 
the wiki.


I liked the nautica thing as a candidate for the wiki, the standard pmwiki 
skin is _ugly_ (and what we have today). I think simulating 'tabs' might 
be a good metaphor for the aspects with which a page can appear, e.g. 
'view', 'edit', 'history'.


However, it is probably easier to finish the official site first and 
then start working on the wiki. Then the wiki design can be adjusted to 
the final design of the official site.


Perhaps... I think they are _very_ different beasts, and that they 
therefore will benefit from designs/layouts that are different.  Just as a 
simple example, a search field is very important for a wiki, but less so 
for the official web site. The wiki needs much for methods or 
functions compared to a regular web site.


As with the web site, we can of course install different skins. Having a 
'standard' skin and an 'advanced' skin could be a good idea.


/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44   http://www.md.kth.se/~chr

Re: Templates for the new website

[Joost Verburg]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Please note that users can choose their own skin by simply appending

?skin=...

to the URI. We do not need to restrict ourselve to one skin only.


We really should not have multiple designs for our web site. One 
official skin is enough.


However, in practie we'll probably only fully support one skin. As for 
what design to use for the official web site, I can't say I've seen a 
consensus (yet) of what design to use. I'm a design illiterate, so I'm 
just waiting for consensus to arrive, and saying that what we have is 
good enough.


As I understand it, the consensus is that the current design is much 
better than before and that we will continue to improve it if we receive 
more feedback / suggestions. Is that right Rex / Andrei?


I liked the nautica thing as a candidate for the wiki, the standard 
pmwiki skin is _ugly_ (and what we have today). I think simulating 
'tabs' might be a good metaphor for the aspects with which a page can 
appear, e.g. 'view', 'edit', 'history'.


I think with some nice graphics this skin can look much better. It's 
easier to start with a Pmwiki skin than to write a new skin from scratch.


Perhaps... I think they are _very_ different beasts, and that they 
therefore will benefit from designs/layouts that are different.  Just as 
a simple example, a search field is very important for a wiki, but less 
so for the official web site. The wiki needs much for methods or 
functions compared to a regular web site.


Yes, they are different. But I think the design should still be somewhat 
consistent.


Joost

Re: Templates for the new website

[Rex C. Eastbourne]

Joost Verburg wrote:
As I understand it, the consensus is that the current design is much 
better than before and that we will continue to improve it if we 
receive more feedback / suggestions. Is that right Rex / Andrei?

That would be fine with me!

Rex

Templates for the new website

[Rex C. Eastbourne]

Thanks for the feedback on the site, everyone!

Here are some templates our designer Andrei picked out as possibilities 
for the new website. What do you guys like most out of these (and the 
current one on the site)?


Bright Pixel: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3021
Black Box: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3106
Flowered: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2864
Nautica: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2828

We can probably make some modifications if there's a small thing people 
don't like about a particular design.


If you see something on http://www.oswd.org/ (Open Source Web Design) 
that you like, feel free to suggest that one.


Rex

Re: Templates for the new website

[John Coppens]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:19:53 -0400
"Rex C. Eastbourne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Here are some templates our designer Andrei picked out as possibilities 
> for the new website. What do you guys like most out of these (and the 
> current one on the site)?

I like the third option - it's very clean, good contrast (though I'd like
a off-white background).

Now, why do web-designers insist on wanting my browser to show text
smaller than the one I configured? Most, if not all of these templates
find it necessary to define the body text as 65-80% of the defined font
size (in the stylesheet).

From

http://www.bigbaer.com/css_tutorials/css_font_size.htm

I gather this is practice is very common...

John

Re: Templates for the new website

[Rich Shepard]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rex C. Eastbourne wrote:


Bright Pixel: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3021


Rex,

  Very difficult to read because there's not sufficient contrast between the
background and the text. It may be OK for 20-something-year-old eyes, but
not for us old curmudgeons. This applies to the bright colors on the grey
header as well as the grey text on the white background.


Black Box: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3106


  Same thing. If the text is bright white rather than grey, it would be OK.
But, the header still is terrible. Actually, the black background is much
easier on my eyes than are white backgrounds.


Flowered: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2864


  Grey header band has the same contrast issue. The main portion of the page
is quite readable, but ... the flower is so bright it makes me squint and is
very uncomfortable to see.


Nautica: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2828


  Again, insufficient contrast of text and background.


We can probably make some modifications if there's a small thing people
don't like about a particular design.


  I'm not a graphic person so I have no preference of one layout. They can
all work. What I immediately notice is whether the text is easily readable.
Other than the flowered design, they aren't. But, they are easily corrected.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
 Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: Templates for the new website

[curtis osterhoudt]

I like all of the page templates. My *least* favorite is "Black Box", because 
the text seems hard to read (gray on a black background?) and I keep peering at 
the page to see if there are images hidden in the background.

   http://www.lyx.org/test/index.php/Main/HomePage is really quite attractive 
(perhaps the other templates would be equally or moreso, once LyX-specific 
content is put on). 

   


 
/
  Down with categorical imperative!
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
/

- Original Message 
From: Rex C. Eastbourne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 9:19:53 AM
Subject: Templates for the new website

Thanks for the feedback on the site, everyone!

Here are some templates our designer Andrei picked out as possibilities 
for the new website. What do you guys like most out of these (and the 
current one on the site)?

Bright Pixel: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3021
Black Box: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3106
Flowered: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2864
Nautica: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/2828

We can probably make some modifications if there's a small thing people 
don't like about a particular design.

If you see something on http://www.oswd.org/ (Open Source Web Design) 
that you like, feel free to suggest that one.

Rex






  

Like movies? Here's a limited-time offer: Blockbuster Total Access for one 
month at no cost. 
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text4.com

Re: Templates for the new website

[John Coppens]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:00:15 -0300
John Coppens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Now, why do web-designers insist on wanting my browser to show text
> smaller than the one I configured? Most, if not all of these templates
> find it necessary to define the body text as 65-80% of the defined font
> size (in the stylesheet).

Note this recommendation from the W3C consortium:

http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/font-size

quote:
Size: respect the users' preferences, avoid small size for content

* As a base font size for a document, 1em (or 100%) is equivalent to
setting the font size to the user's preference. Use this as a basis for
your font sizes, and avoid setting a smaller base font size
* Avoid sizes in em smaller than 1em for text body, except maybe for
copyright statements or other kinds of "fine print."

end quote...

John

Re: Templates for the new website

[Rex C. Eastbourne]

Thanks for your input, everyone. On second thought, it might be best to 
just stick with the template we have now, since Joost and Christian have 
put a lot of work into getting it to work right. I think the current 
template looks really good.


Rex

Re: Templates for the new website

[Rich Shepard]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rex C. Eastbourne wrote:


Thanks for your input, everyone. On second thought, it might be best to
just stick with the template we have now, since Joost and Christian have
put a lot of work into getting it to work right. I think the current
template looks really good.


Rex,

  Me, too. And it's readable.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
 Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: Templates for the new website

[Paul A. Rubin]

Rich Shepard wrote:

Bright Pixel: http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3021

  Very difficult to read because there's not sufficient contrast between the
background and the text. It may be OK for 20-something-year-old eyes, but
not for us old curmudgeons.


It's also hard for us old non-curmudgeons; and that applies to three of 
the four designs.  (Was the Blackbox page designed by a Goth?)  The 
flowered one has adequate contrast, albeit with an unnecessarily tiny 
font (noted elsewhere).


I like the current format of the revised site better than any of these.

/Paul

Re: Templates for the new website

[christian . ridderstrom]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rich Shepard wrote:


On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rex C. Eastbourne wrote:


 Thanks for your input, everyone. On second thought, it might be best
 to just stick with the template we have now, since Joost and Christian
 have put a lot of work into getting it to work right. I think the
 current template looks really good.


Speaking for myself, I'll certainly be happy to install Andrei's 
suggestions as 'skins' on the site!


About skins, I'd love a new skin for wiki.lyx.org (hint, hint), but please 
note that it should _not_ be the same as for www.lyx.org. (See discussion 
on the devel list).


Best regards,
/Christian

PS. Seriously, I would like to try and install Andrei's work. Andrei, you 
can contact me off-list so we can work out details.


--
Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44   http://www.md.kth.se/~chr

Re: Templates for the new website

[Pavel Sanda]

> About skins, I'd love a new skin for wiki.lyx.org (hint, hint), but please 
> note that it should _not_ be the same as for www.lyx.org. (See discussion 
> on the devel list).

please at least for the wiki part use template which use full screen width.

pavel

Re: Templates for the new website

[Joost Verburg]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
PS. Seriously, I would like to try and install Andrei's work. Andrei, 
you can contact me off-list so we can work out details.


These are just a few example of open-source templates, it's not new work.

For the new official website it's we'll continue improving the current 
skin/design.


For the wiki I think it's the best option to either improve the standard 
Pmwiki skin or to use another Pmwiki skin and customize it. It should be 
a simple and flexible design because of the various types of content in 
the wiki.


However, it is probably easier to finish the official site first and 
then start working on the wiki. Then the wiki design can be adjusted to 
the final design of the official site.


Joost

Re: Templates for the new website

[Joost Verburg]

Pavel Sanda wrote:
About skins, I'd love a new skin for wiki.lyx.org (hint, hint), but please 
note that it should _not_ be the same as for www.lyx.org. (See discussion 
on the devel list).


please at least for the wiki part use template which use full screen width.


I agree. Because of the type of content on the wiki a full width screen 
is a good idea.


Joost

Re: Templates for the new website

[christian . ridderstrom]

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Joost Verburg wrote:


 PS. Seriously, I would like to try and install Andrei's work. Andrei,
 you can contact me off-list so we can work out details.


These are just a few example of open-source templates, it's not new 
work.


I know. I mean that if Andrei wants to create a template, I'll install it 
for testing on either the web site or the wiki site. I believe that if he 
invests time in creating a design, I think we owe him to give it a proper 
test, i.e.  in context. Then people can give their opinion, and ideally 
we'll merge the best features of the designs. (In a theoretical world with 
the needed resources etc etc).


For the new official website it's we'll continue improving the current 
skin/design.


Please note that users can choose their own skin by simply appending

?skin=...

to the URI. We do not need to restrict ourselve to one skin only.

However, in practie we'll probably only fully support one skin. As for 
what design to use for the official web site, I can't say I've seen a 
consensus (yet) of what design to use. I'm a "design illiterate", so I'm 
just waiting for consensus to arrive, and saying that what we have is 
"good enough".


Naturally I think the current design is _much_ better than before! 
However, if Andrei wants to make a design I'll install it so that we can 
compare them.


For the wiki I think it's the best option to either improve the standard 
Pmwiki skin or to use another Pmwiki skin and customize it. It should be 
a simple and flexible design because of the various types of content in 
the wiki.


I liked the nautica thing as a candidate for the wiki, the standard pmwiki 
skin is _ugly_ (and what we have today). I think simulating 'tabs' might 
be a good metaphor for the aspects with which a page can appear, e.g. 
'view', 'edit', 'history'.


However, it is probably easier to finish the official site first and 
then start working on the wiki. Then the wiki design can be adjusted to 
the final design of the official site.


Perhaps... I think they are _very_ different beasts, and that they 
therefore will benefit from designs/layouts that are different.  Just as a 
simple example, a search field is very important for a wiki, but less so 
for the official web site. The wiki needs much for "methods" or 
"functions" compared to a regular web site.


As with the web site, we can of course install different skins. Having a 
'standard' skin and an 'advanced' skin could be a good idea.


/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44   http://www.md.kth.se/~chr

Re: Templates for the new website

[Joost Verburg]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Please note that users can choose their own skin by simply appending

?skin=...

to the URI. We do not need to restrict ourselve to one skin only.


We really should not have multiple designs for our web site. One 
official skin is enough.


However, in practie we'll probably only fully support one skin. As for 
what design to use for the official web site, I can't say I've seen a 
consensus (yet) of what design to use. I'm a "design illiterate", so I'm 
just waiting for consensus to arrive, and saying that what we have is 
"good enough".


As I understand it, the consensus is that the current design is much 
better than before and that we will continue to improve it if we receive 
more feedback / suggestions. Is that right Rex / Andrei?


I liked the nautica thing as a candidate for the wiki, the standard 
pmwiki skin is _ugly_ (and what we have today). I think simulating 
'tabs' might be a good metaphor for the aspects with which a page can 
appear, e.g. 'view', 'edit', 'history'.


I think with some nice graphics this skin can look much better. It's 
easier to start with a Pmwiki skin than to write a new skin from scratch.


Perhaps... I think they are _very_ different beasts, and that they 
therefore will benefit from designs/layouts that are different.  Just as 
a simple example, a search field is very important for a wiki, but less 
so for the official web site. The wiki needs much for "methods" or 
"functions" compared to a regular web site.


Yes, they are different. But I think the design should still be somewhat 
consistent.


Joost

Re: Templates for the new website

[Rex C. Eastbourne]

Joost Verburg wrote:
As I understand it, the consensus is that the current design is much 
better than before and that we will continue to improve it if we 
receive more feedback / suggestions. Is that right Rex / Andrei?

That would be fine with me!

Rex