Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

26/08/2013 18:41, John Kane:

This is very amusing indeed. Do they describe this particular obsession
in their catalog of mental illnesses? At least they dropped the
'underscore instead of emphasize' madness some time ago.


They don't have acatalog of mental illnesses. That's the American
Psychiatric Association you're thinking of.


I stand corrected. I plead a trauma after trying to format a paper for a 
cognitive psychology journal on behalf of my wife :)


JMarc

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[John Kane]

 From: Jean-Marc Lasgouttes lasgout...@lyx.org
To: John Kane jrkrid...@yahoo.ca 
Cc: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Monday, September 2, 2013 3:41:36 AM
Subject: Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)
 

26/08/2013 18:41, John Kane:
 This is very amusing indeed. Do they describe this particular obsession
 in their catalog of mental illnesses? At least they dropped the
 'underscore instead of emphasize' madness some time ago.

 They don't have acatalog of mental illnesses. That's the American
 Psychiatric Association you're thinking of.

I stand corrected. I plead a trauma after trying to format a paper for a 
cognitive psychology journal on behalf of my wife :)

JMarc

Perfectly understandable. It is possible that the diagnostic manual (DSM-5) was 
written just to deal with APA Style trauma.  

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

26/08/2013 18:41, John Kane:

This is very amusing indeed. Do they describe this particular obsession
in their catalog of mental illnesses? At least they dropped the
'underscore instead of emphasize' madness some time ago.


They don't have acatalog of mental illnesses. That's the American
Psychiatric Association you're thinking of.


I stand corrected. I plead a trauma after trying to format a paper for a 
cognitive psychology journal on behalf of my wife :)


JMarc

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[John Kane]

 From: Jean-Marc Lasgouttes lasgout...@lyx.org
To: John Kane jrkrid...@yahoo.ca 
Cc: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Monday, September 2, 2013 3:41:36 AM
Subject: Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)
 

26/08/2013 18:41, John Kane:
 This is very amusing indeed. Do they describe this particular obsession
 in their catalog of mental illnesses? At least they dropped the
 'underscore instead of emphasize' madness some time ago.

 They don't have acatalog of mental illnesses. That's the American
 Psychiatric Association you're thinking of.

I stand corrected. I plead a trauma after trying to format a paper for a 
cognitive psychology journal on behalf of my wife :)

JMarc

Perfectly understandable. It is possible that the diagnostic manual (DSM-5) was 
written just to deal with APA Style trauma.  

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

26/08/2013 18:41, John Kane:

This is very amusing indeed. Do they describe this particular obsession
in their catalog of mental illnesses? At least they dropped the
'underscore instead of emphasize' madness some time ago.


They don't have acatalog of mental illnesses. That's the American
Psychiatric Association you're thinking of.


I stand corrected. I plead a trauma after trying to format a paper for a 
cognitive psychology journal on behalf of my wife :)


JMarc

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[John Kane]

 From: Jean-Marc Lasgouttes 
To: John Kane  
Cc: "lyx-users@lists.lyx.org"  
Sent: Monday, September 2, 2013 3:41:36 AM
Subject: Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)
 

26/08/2013 18:41, John Kane:
>> This is very amusing indeed. Do they describe this particular obsession
>> in their catalog of mental illnesses? At least they dropped the
>> 'underscore instead of emphasize' madness some time ago.
>
> They don't have acatalog of mental illnesses. That's the American
> Psychiatric Association you're thinking of.

I stand corrected. I plead a trauma after trying to format a paper for a 
cognitive psychology journal on behalf of my wife :)

JMarc

Perfectly understandable. It is possible that the diagnostic manual (DSM-5) was 
written just to deal with APA Style trauma.  

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[Wilfried]

John Kane wrote:

 I was poking around the Zotero site trying to see if there was a way to get a 
 specific APA citation format [Author (date)] which is easy enough in LyX or 
 LaTeX to work in a word processor such as AOO Writer or MS Word[1]. Well 
 actually  I was finding that Zotero inserts the citation in (Author, Date) 
 format without allowing modifications as one can when inserting from a bibtex 
 file and hoped to find a way to avoid having to go back and edit later if it 
 could be done in a word processor.
[...] 
 1. The answer was no, Zotero does not do this but there is a reasonable work 
 around: Just type the Author part and insert the reference with author 
 suppressed. 

You can easily edit Zotero's style file to make it insert the required
parentheses. 
To edit Zotero's style file: 
- use a text editor which can handle UTF-8 files
- do not overwrite the original style file but save the changed file
with a different name and also change the style name in the header part.

You can contact me for further questions by PM.
-- 
Wilfried Hennings
whiskey hotel underscore november golf at golf mike xray dot delta echo

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[John Kane]

 From: Wilfried wh...@gmx.de
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 6:43:33 AM
Subject: Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)
 

John Kane wrote:

 I was poking around the Zotero site trying to see if there was a way to get a 
 specific APA citation format [Author (date)] which is easy enough in LyX or 
 LaTeX to work in a word processor such as AOO Writer or MS Word[1]. Well 
 actually  I was finding that Zotero inserts the citation in (Author, Date) 
 format without allowing modifications as one can when inserting from a bibtex 
 file and hoped to find a way to avoid having to go back and edit later if it 
 could be done in a word processor.
[...] 
 1. The answer was no, Zotero does not do this but there is a reasonable work 
 around: Just type the Author part and insert the reference with author 
 suppressed. 

You can easily edit Zotero's style file to make it insert the required
parentheses. 
To edit Zotero's style file: 
- use a text editor which can handle UTF-8 files
- do not overwrite the original style file but save the changed file
with a different name and also change the style name in the header part.

You can contact me for further questions by PM.
-- 
Wilfried Hennings
whiskey hotel underscore november golf at golf mike xray dot delta echo

Thanks you for the suggestion but does that not still leave me with only one 
way o insertion? What I was hoping to find was the equivalent of the LyX 
insertion menu where I have the choice of several different ways of inserting 

Author (date) 

(Author, date)

(date) 

The Zotero package in Apache Open Office offers (Author date) as default and 
one can get the equivalents of pre and post text etc by editing the citation 
after insertion rather than before as one does in LyX. It was just a minor 
annoyance that I had to go back and edit the Zotero citation in LyX. I just 
find it more logical and convenient to do it the way LyX does natively.

From my reading on the Zotero forum this seems an acknowledged issue and it 
really is a Word/OpenOffice problem so I won't worry about it. At a rough guess 
80% of my citations would be (author, date) so the Zotero default makes sense. 
I was just being lazy.

Thanks very much though.

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 24/08/2013 16:13, John Kane a écrit :

I found a discussion of exactly that issue on a Zotero forum and came
across a reference to the American Psychology Association blog that, as
far as I can see, is almost exclusively devoted to advice on how to deal
with the Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association.


This is very amusing indeed. Do they describe this particular obsession 
in their catalog of mental illnesses? At least they dropped the 
'underscore instead of emphasize' madness some time ago.


JMarc

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[John Kane]

 From: Jean-Marc Lasgouttes lasgout...@lyx.org
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 11:40:52 AM
Subject: Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)
 

Le 24/08/2013 16:13, John Kane a écrit :
 I found a discussion of exactly that issue on a Zotero forum and came
 across a reference to the American Psychology Association blog that, as
 far as I can see, is almost exclusively devoted to advice on how to deal
 with the Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association.

This is very amusing indeed. Do they describe this particular obsession in 
their catalog of mental illnesses? At least they dropped the 'underscore 
instead of emphasize' madness some time ago.

JMarc


They don't have acatalog of mental illnesses. That's the American Psychiatric 
Association you're thinking of.

I was amused to note that the APA Manual is ready for any eventuality. They 
even have an approved style for referencing retracted articles. Not that 
psychology would ever need such a thing.

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[Wilfried]

John Kane wrote:

 I was poking around the Zotero site trying to see if there was a way to get a 
 specific APA citation format [Author (date)] which is easy enough in LyX or 
 LaTeX to work in a word processor such as AOO Writer or MS Word[1]. Well 
 actually  I was finding that Zotero inserts the citation in (Author, Date) 
 format without allowing modifications as one can when inserting from a bibtex 
 file and hoped to find a way to avoid having to go back and edit later if it 
 could be done in a word processor.
[...] 
 1. The answer was no, Zotero does not do this but there is a reasonable work 
 around: Just type the Author part and insert the reference with author 
 suppressed. 

You can easily edit Zotero's style file to make it insert the required
parentheses. 
To edit Zotero's style file: 
- use a text editor which can handle UTF-8 files
- do not overwrite the original style file but save the changed file
with a different name and also change the style name in the header part.

You can contact me for further questions by PM.
-- 
Wilfried Hennings
whiskey hotel underscore november golf at golf mike xray dot delta echo

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[John Kane]

 From: Wilfried wh...@gmx.de
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 6:43:33 AM
Subject: Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)
 

John Kane wrote:

 I was poking around the Zotero site trying to see if there was a way to get a 
 specific APA citation format [Author (date)] which is easy enough in LyX or 
 LaTeX to work in a word processor such as AOO Writer or MS Word[1]. Well 
 actually  I was finding that Zotero inserts the citation in (Author, Date) 
 format without allowing modifications as one can when inserting from a bibtex 
 file and hoped to find a way to avoid having to go back and edit later if it 
 could be done in a word processor.
[...] 
 1. The answer was no, Zotero does not do this but there is a reasonable work 
 around: Just type the Author part and insert the reference with author 
 suppressed. 

You can easily edit Zotero's style file to make it insert the required
parentheses. 
To edit Zotero's style file: 
- use a text editor which can handle UTF-8 files
- do not overwrite the original style file but save the changed file
with a different name and also change the style name in the header part.

You can contact me for further questions by PM.
-- 
Wilfried Hennings
whiskey hotel underscore november golf at golf mike xray dot delta echo

Thanks you for the suggestion but does that not still leave me with only one 
way o insertion? What I was hoping to find was the equivalent of the LyX 
insertion menu where I have the choice of several different ways of inserting 

Author (date) 

(Author, date)

(date) 

The Zotero package in Apache Open Office offers (Author date) as default and 
one can get the equivalents of pre and post text etc by editing the citation 
after insertion rather than before as one does in LyX. It was just a minor 
annoyance that I had to go back and edit the Zotero citation in LyX. I just 
find it more logical and convenient to do it the way LyX does natively.

From my reading on the Zotero forum this seems an acknowledged issue and it 
really is a Word/OpenOffice problem so I won't worry about it. At a rough guess 
80% of my citations would be (author, date) so the Zotero default makes sense. 
I was just being lazy.

Thanks very much though.

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 24/08/2013 16:13, John Kane a écrit :

I found a discussion of exactly that issue on a Zotero forum and came
across a reference to the American Psychology Association blog that, as
far as I can see, is almost exclusively devoted to advice on how to deal
with the Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association.


This is very amusing indeed. Do they describe this particular obsession 
in their catalog of mental illnesses? At least they dropped the 
'underscore instead of emphasize' madness some time ago.


JMarc

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[John Kane]

 From: Jean-Marc Lasgouttes lasgout...@lyx.org
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 11:40:52 AM
Subject: Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)
 

Le 24/08/2013 16:13, John Kane a écrit :
 I found a discussion of exactly that issue on a Zotero forum and came
 across a reference to the American Psychology Association blog that, as
 far as I can see, is almost exclusively devoted to advice on how to deal
 with the Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association.

This is very amusing indeed. Do they describe this particular obsession in 
their catalog of mental illnesses? At least they dropped the 'underscore 
instead of emphasize' madness some time ago.

JMarc


They don't have acatalog of mental illnesses. That's the American Psychiatric 
Association you're thinking of.

I was amused to note that the APA Manual is ready for any eventuality. They 
even have an approved style for referencing retracted articles. Not that 
psychology would ever need such a thing.

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[Wilfried]

John Kane wrote:

> I was poking around the Zotero site trying to see if there was a way to get a 
> specific APA citation format [Author (date)] which is easy enough in LyX or 
> LaTeX to work in a word processor such as AOO Writer or MS Word[1]. Well 
> actually  I was finding that Zotero inserts the citation in (Author, Date) 
> format without allowing modifications as one can when inserting from a bibtex 
> file and hoped to find a way to avoid having to go back and edit later if it 
> could be done in a word processor.
>[...] 
> 1. The answer was no, Zotero does not do this but there is a reasonable work 
> around: Just type the Author part and insert the reference with author 
> suppressed. 

You can easily edit Zotero's style file to make it insert the required
parentheses. 
To edit Zotero's style file: 
- use a text editor which can handle UTF-8 files
- do not overwrite the original style file but save the changed file
with a different name and also change the style name in the header part.

You can contact me for further questions by PM.
-- 
Wilfried Hennings
whiskey hotel underscore november golf at golf mike xray dot delta echo

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[John Kane]

 From: Wilfried 
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 6:43:33 AM
Subject: Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)
 

John Kane wrote:

> I was poking around the Zotero site trying to see if there was a way to get a 
> specific APA citation format [Author (date)] which is easy enough in LyX or 
> LaTeX to work in a word processor such as AOO Writer or MS Word[1]. Well 
> actually  I was finding that Zotero inserts the citation in (Author, Date) 
> format without allowing modifications as one can when inserting from a bibtex 
> file and hoped to find a way to avoid having to go back and edit later if it 
> could be done in a word processor.
>[...] 
> 1. The answer was no, Zotero does not do this but there is a reasonable work 
> around: Just type the Author part and insert the reference with author 
> suppressed. 

You can easily edit Zotero's style file to make it insert the required
parentheses. 
To edit Zotero's style file: 
- use a text editor which can handle UTF-8 files
- do not overwrite the original style file but save the changed file
with a different name and also change the style name in the header part.

You can contact me for further questions by PM.
-- 
Wilfried Hennings
whiskey hotel underscore november golf at golf mike xray dot delta echo

Thanks you for the suggestion but does that not still leave me with only one 
way o insertion? What I was hoping to find was the equivalent of the LyX 
insertion menu where I have the choice of several different ways of inserting 

Author (date) 

(Author, date)

(date) 

The Zotero package in Apache Open Office offers (Author date) as default and 
one can get the equivalents of pre and post text etc by editing the citation 
after insertion rather than before as one does in LyX. It was just a minor 
annoyance that I had to go back and edit the Zotero citation in LyX. I just 
find it more logical and convenient to do it the way LyX does natively.

From my reading on the Zotero forum this seems an acknowledged issue and it 
really is a Word/OpenOffice problem so I won't worry about it. At a rough guess 
80% of my citations would be (author, date) so the Zotero default makes sense. 
I was just being lazy.

Thanks very much though.

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 24/08/2013 16:13, John Kane a écrit :

I found a discussion of exactly that issue on a Zotero forum and came
across a reference to the American Psychology Association blog that, as
far as I can see, is almost exclusively devoted to advice on how to deal
with the Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association.


This is very amusing indeed. Do they describe this particular obsession 
in their catalog of mental illnesses? At least they dropped the 
'underscore instead of emphasize' madness some time ago.


JMarc

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[John Kane]

 From: Jean-Marc Lasgouttes 
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 11:40:52 AM
Subject: Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)
 

Le 24/08/2013 16:13, John Kane a écrit :
> I found a discussion of exactly that issue on a Zotero forum and came
> across a reference to the American Psychology Association blog that, as
> far as I can see, is almost exclusively devoted to advice on how to deal
> with the Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association.

This is very amusing indeed. Do they describe this particular obsession in 
their catalog of mental illnesses? At least they dropped the 'underscore 
instead of emphasize' madness some time ago.

JMarc


They don't have acatalog of mental illnesses. That's the American Psychiatric 
Association you're thinking of.

I was amused to note that the APA Manual is ready for any eventuality. They 
even have an approved style for referencing retracted articles. Not that 
psychology would ever need such a thing.

The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[John Kane]

I was poking around the Zotero site trying to see if there was a way to get a 
specific APA citation format [Author (date)] which is easy enough in LyX or 
LaTeX to work in a word processor such as AOO Writer or MS Word[1]. Well 
actually  I was finding that Zotero inserts the citation in (Author, Date) 
format without allowing modifications as one can when inserting from a bibtex 
file and hoped to find a way to avoid having to go back and edit later if it 
could be done in a word processor.

I found a discussion of exactly that issue on a Zotero forum and came across a 
reference to the American Psychology Association blog that, as far as I can 
see, is almost exclusively devoted to advice on how to deal with the 
Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association. As they say, “The 
APA Style Blog is the official companion to the Publication Manual of the 
American Psychological Association, Sixth Edition”.

I know, from personal experience, that everyone from undergraduates to tenured 
professors obsess over proper referencing but a blog? Does anyone know of the 
existence of something like this for any other style manual?

I don't have the slightest idea of how many APA Manual users use LyX or LaTeX 
but I think it's very nice that LyX offers it. Well that's partially just me 
being selfish but a lack of the APA6 document class would be a complete 
deal-breaker for anyone wanting to use LyX. Oh, and while poking along I ran 
over a note that the Manual was being translated into Arabic, Simple Chinese, 
Italian, Nepalese, Polish, Romanian, Portuguese, and Spanish among other 
languages.

1. The answer was no, Zotero does not do this but there is a reasonable work 
around: Just type the Author part and insert the reference with author 
suppressed. 

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[Jacob Bishop]

On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 8:13 AM, John Kane jrkrid...@yahoo.ca wrote:

 I was poking around the Zotero site trying to see if there was a way to
 get a specific APA citation format [Author (date)] which is easy enough in
 LyX or LaTeX to work in a word processor such as AOO Writer or MS Word[1].
 Well actually


I don't know if you are aware, but there is a project called Docear4word.
See http://www.docear.org/category/docear4word/ Now, I use LyX for writing
papers, along with JabRef, which uses BibTeX. If I had to use Word, though,
I would probably use Docear4word, because it also works nicely with JabRef.


 I was finding that Zotero inserts the citation in (Author, Date) format
 without allowing modifications as one can when inserting from a bibtex file
 and hoped to find a way to avoid having to go back and edit later if it
 could be done in a word processor.

 I found a discussion of exactly that issue on a Zotero forum and came
 across a reference to the American Psychology Association blog that, as far
 as I can see, is almost exclusively devoted to advice on how to deal with
 the Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association. As they
 say, “The APA Style Blog is the official companion to the Publication
 Manual of the American Psychological Association, Sixth Edition”.

 I know, from personal experience, that everyone from undergraduates to
 tenured professors obsess over proper referencing but a blog?


Why not? I think things like this help people pull together and deal with
the difficult circumstances. You know, when they feel trapped. It sounds
sort of like an alcoholics anonymous group, but for academics in the social
sciences, who, for one reason or another, just can't stop using APA.


 Does anyone know of the existence of something like this for any other
 style manual?

I don't have the slightest idea of how many APA Manual users use LyX or
 LaTeX but I think it's very nice that LyX offers it. Well that's partially
 just me being selfish but a lack of the APA6 document class would be a
 complete deal-breaker for anyone wanting to use LyX. Oh, and while poking
 along I ran over a note that the Manual was being translated into Arabic,
 Simple Chinese, Italian, Nepalese, Polish, Romanian, Portuguese, and
 Spanish among other languages.


I agree, APA use is widespread,and it probably will not slowing down any
time soon. I think it will be best if we just try to learn to cope with it.


 1. The answer was no, Zotero does not do this but there is a reasonable
 work around: Just type the Author part and insert the reference with author
 suppressed.


Jacob

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[John Kane]

 From: Jacob Bishop bishop.ja...@gmail.com
To: John Kane jrkrid...@yahoo.ca 
Cc: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 1:38:15 PM
Subject: Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)
 




On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 8:13 AM, John Kane jrkrid...@yahoo.ca wrote:

I was poking around the Zotero site trying to see if there was a way to get a 
specific APA citation format [Author (date)] which is easy enough in LyX or 
LaTeX to work in a word processor such as AOO Writer or MS Word[1]. Well 
actually  

I don't know if you are aware, but there is a project called Docear4word. See 
http://www.docear.org/category/docear4word/ Now, I use LyX for writing papers, 
along with JabRef, which uses BibTeX. If I had to use Word, though, I would 
probably use Docear4word, because it also works nicely with JabRef. 

No I had not heard of it. Seems a bit interesting though I detest Word. I was 
one of the beta tester for Excel--my university was a site and I liked it but I 
have never liked the design or philosophy of Word.

I use OpenOffice and occasionally LibreOffice but if I were to do all my 
writing in them I'd stick with Zotero. Bibtex with JabRef is okay but it really 
is just a way to hanle references. 

Zotero is a pretty complete bibliographic management system which allows the 
storage of articles, etc, within the data base--heck I've got 2 or 3 pdf books 
from various places stored there, tagging, linking, and the maintanance of 
elaborate notes. 

It looks like it was designed by working scholars for working scholars and it 
seems to interface pretty smoothly with Word and OpenOffice with that Author 
alone problem being one exception

 
I was finding that Zotero inserts the citation in (Author, Date) format without 
allowing modifications as one can when inserting from a bibtex file and hoped 
to find a way to avoid having to go back and edit later if it could be done in 
a word processor.

I found a discussion of exactly that issue on a Zotero forum and came across a 
reference to the American Psychology Association blog that, as far as I can 
see, is almost exclusively devoted to advice on how to deal with the 
Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association. As they say, 
“The APA Style Blog is the
 official companion to the Publication Manual of the American Psychological 
Association, Sixth Edition”.

I know, from personal experience, that everyone from undergraduates to tenured 
professors obsess over proper referencing but a blog? 

Why not? I think things like this help people pull together and deal with the 
difficult circumstances. You know, when they feel trapped. It sounds sort of 
like an alcoholics anonymous group, but for academics in the social sciences, 
who, for one reason or another, just can't stop using APA.

No, no, no, This is not a self-help blog. You need to have a look at the blog. 
http://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/. It is written by what 12 full-time APA 
experts in publications 
http://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/apa-style-experts.html. This means by the 
experts  by the people who turn out all the major APA journals , books and who 
maintain or help maintain PsycINFO

It's not some kind of self-help group but a high-powered group of experts 
providing advice. As a rough analogy, think of having the R Core Development 
team plus a few major package maintainers running a blog.

It speaks to the importance of APA style overall. I think I mentioned in the 
earlier discussion of the importance of having an APA6 document class and this 
blog seems to strengthen that idea. I believe I mentioned that the APA5 manual 
states that over 1000 journals, and students ranging from nursing to nuclear 
technology (Personal communication Oct. 2012) use it.

In fact, in poking around the APA site I got the impression that publishing and 
supporting APA style is a major industry.

In spite of some of the Manual's insane pickiness, it does provide a common 
language and format for reporting a lot of things. You know where to look for 
information and exactly in what format to expect it. One does not have to worry 
if the authors are reporting measurements in Babylonian cubits or whatever--you 
know it's IS0.

Also, come to think of it, in overall form it may well speak to its importance 
from a legal perspective as well. If you are a nuclear engineering report on an 
accident, a nurse drafting a patient report for official consideration, or a 
clinical psychologist preparing for a custody hearing, you all have a stable 
template to work from: no one has to re-invent the wheel and everyone receiving 
the information knows what they are getting.In many cases it is difficult to 
overstate the importance of standardization. 

As an aside I worked on a project a few years ago where we were dealing with 
data from all across Canada. At the time, when building one of our data bases 
we discovered that 

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[Jacob Bishop]

On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 4:56 PM, John Kane jrkrid...@yahoo.ca wrote:


 It's not some kind of self-help group but a high-powered group of experts
 providing advice. As a rough analogy, think of having the R Core
 Development team plus a few major package maintainers running a blog.

 It speaks to the importance of APA style overall. I think I mentioned in
 the earlier discussion of the importance of having an APA6 document class
 and this blog seems to strengthen that idea. I believe I mentioned that the
 APA5 manual states that over 1000 journals, and students ranging from
 nursing to nuclear technology (Personal communication Oct. 2012) use it.


Okay, so I actually looked at it this time. I agree that the blog
strengthens the case for APA being important. I find it interesting that
you make that comment. Many times I find that when people refer to
something as (merely) a blog, it is to discredit the source. Here, you are
making the opposite case. Like I said, I agree with your point. It's like
it adds another dimension to it. They're not the only ones, either. As an
actual example of your analogy to the R Core Development team, the
Mathworks (who develops Matlab) have at least a half-dozen regularly
maintained blogs.

Jacob

The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[John Kane]

I was poking around the Zotero site trying to see if there was a way to get a 
specific APA citation format [Author (date)] which is easy enough in LyX or 
LaTeX to work in a word processor such as AOO Writer or MS Word[1]. Well 
actually  I was finding that Zotero inserts the citation in (Author, Date) 
format without allowing modifications as one can when inserting from a bibtex 
file and hoped to find a way to avoid having to go back and edit later if it 
could be done in a word processor.

I found a discussion of exactly that issue on a Zotero forum and came across a 
reference to the American Psychology Association blog that, as far as I can 
see, is almost exclusively devoted to advice on how to deal with the 
Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association. As they say, “The 
APA Style Blog is the official companion to the Publication Manual of the 
American Psychological Association, Sixth Edition”.

I know, from personal experience, that everyone from undergraduates to tenured 
professors obsess over proper referencing but a blog? Does anyone know of the 
existence of something like this for any other style manual?

I don't have the slightest idea of how many APA Manual users use LyX or LaTeX 
but I think it's very nice that LyX offers it. Well that's partially just me 
being selfish but a lack of the APA6 document class would be a complete 
deal-breaker for anyone wanting to use LyX. Oh, and while poking along I ran 
over a note that the Manual was being translated into Arabic, Simple Chinese, 
Italian, Nepalese, Polish, Romanian, Portuguese, and Spanish among other 
languages.

1. The answer was no, Zotero does not do this but there is a reasonable work 
around: Just type the Author part and insert the reference with author 
suppressed. 

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[Jacob Bishop]

On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 8:13 AM, John Kane jrkrid...@yahoo.ca wrote:

 I was poking around the Zotero site trying to see if there was a way to
 get a specific APA citation format [Author (date)] which is easy enough in
 LyX or LaTeX to work in a word processor such as AOO Writer or MS Word[1].
 Well actually


I don't know if you are aware, but there is a project called Docear4word.
See http://www.docear.org/category/docear4word/ Now, I use LyX for writing
papers, along with JabRef, which uses BibTeX. If I had to use Word, though,
I would probably use Docear4word, because it also works nicely with JabRef.


 I was finding that Zotero inserts the citation in (Author, Date) format
 without allowing modifications as one can when inserting from a bibtex file
 and hoped to find a way to avoid having to go back and edit later if it
 could be done in a word processor.

 I found a discussion of exactly that issue on a Zotero forum and came
 across a reference to the American Psychology Association blog that, as far
 as I can see, is almost exclusively devoted to advice on how to deal with
 the Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association. As they
 say, “The APA Style Blog is the official companion to the Publication
 Manual of the American Psychological Association, Sixth Edition”.

 I know, from personal experience, that everyone from undergraduates to
 tenured professors obsess over proper referencing but a blog?


Why not? I think things like this help people pull together and deal with
the difficult circumstances. You know, when they feel trapped. It sounds
sort of like an alcoholics anonymous group, but for academics in the social
sciences, who, for one reason or another, just can't stop using APA.


 Does anyone know of the existence of something like this for any other
 style manual?

I don't have the slightest idea of how many APA Manual users use LyX or
 LaTeX but I think it's very nice that LyX offers it. Well that's partially
 just me being selfish but a lack of the APA6 document class would be a
 complete deal-breaker for anyone wanting to use LyX. Oh, and while poking
 along I ran over a note that the Manual was being translated into Arabic,
 Simple Chinese, Italian, Nepalese, Polish, Romanian, Portuguese, and
 Spanish among other languages.


I agree, APA use is widespread,and it probably will not slowing down any
time soon. I think it will be best if we just try to learn to cope with it.


 1. The answer was no, Zotero does not do this but there is a reasonable
 work around: Just type the Author part and insert the reference with author
 suppressed.


Jacob

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[John Kane]

 From: Jacob Bishop bishop.ja...@gmail.com
To: John Kane jrkrid...@yahoo.ca 
Cc: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 1:38:15 PM
Subject: Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)
 




On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 8:13 AM, John Kane jrkrid...@yahoo.ca wrote:

I was poking around the Zotero site trying to see if there was a way to get a 
specific APA citation format [Author (date)] which is easy enough in LyX or 
LaTeX to work in a word processor such as AOO Writer or MS Word[1]. Well 
actually  

I don't know if you are aware, but there is a project called Docear4word. See 
http://www.docear.org/category/docear4word/ Now, I use LyX for writing papers, 
along with JabRef, which uses BibTeX. If I had to use Word, though, I would 
probably use Docear4word, because it also works nicely with JabRef. 

No I had not heard of it. Seems a bit interesting though I detest Word. I was 
one of the beta tester for Excel--my university was a site and I liked it but I 
have never liked the design or philosophy of Word.

I use OpenOffice and occasionally LibreOffice but if I were to do all my 
writing in them I'd stick with Zotero. Bibtex with JabRef is okay but it really 
is just a way to hanle references. 

Zotero is a pretty complete bibliographic management system which allows the 
storage of articles, etc, within the data base--heck I've got 2 or 3 pdf books 
from various places stored there, tagging, linking, and the maintanance of 
elaborate notes. 

It looks like it was designed by working scholars for working scholars and it 
seems to interface pretty smoothly with Word and OpenOffice with that Author 
alone problem being one exception

 
I was finding that Zotero inserts the citation in (Author, Date) format without 
allowing modifications as one can when inserting from a bibtex file and hoped 
to find a way to avoid having to go back and edit later if it could be done in 
a word processor.

I found a discussion of exactly that issue on a Zotero forum and came across a 
reference to the American Psychology Association blog that, as far as I can 
see, is almost exclusively devoted to advice on how to deal with the 
Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association. As they say, 
“The APA Style Blog is the
 official companion to the Publication Manual of the American Psychological 
Association, Sixth Edition”.

I know, from personal experience, that everyone from undergraduates to tenured 
professors obsess over proper referencing but a blog? 

Why not? I think things like this help people pull together and deal with the 
difficult circumstances. You know, when they feel trapped. It sounds sort of 
like an alcoholics anonymous group, but for academics in the social sciences, 
who, for one reason or another, just can't stop using APA.

No, no, no, This is not a self-help blog. You need to have a look at the blog. 
http://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/. It is written by what 12 full-time APA 
experts in publications 
http://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/apa-style-experts.html. This means by the 
experts  by the people who turn out all the major APA journals , books and who 
maintain or help maintain PsycINFO

It's not some kind of self-help group but a high-powered group of experts 
providing advice. As a rough analogy, think of having the R Core Development 
team plus a few major package maintainers running a blog.

It speaks to the importance of APA style overall. I think I mentioned in the 
earlier discussion of the importance of having an APA6 document class and this 
blog seems to strengthen that idea. I believe I mentioned that the APA5 manual 
states that over 1000 journals, and students ranging from nursing to nuclear 
technology (Personal communication Oct. 2012) use it.

In fact, in poking around the APA site I got the impression that publishing and 
supporting APA style is a major industry.

In spite of some of the Manual's insane pickiness, it does provide a common 
language and format for reporting a lot of things. You know where to look for 
information and exactly in what format to expect it. One does not have to worry 
if the authors are reporting measurements in Babylonian cubits or whatever--you 
know it's IS0.

Also, come to think of it, in overall form it may well speak to its importance 
from a legal perspective as well. If you are a nuclear engineering report on an 
accident, a nurse drafting a patient report for official consideration, or a 
clinical psychologist preparing for a custody hearing, you all have a stable 
template to work from: no one has to re-invent the wheel and everyone receiving 
the information knows what they are getting.In many cases it is difficult to 
overstate the importance of standardization. 

As an aside I worked on a project a few years ago where we were dealing with 
data from all across Canada. At the time, when building one of our data bases 
we discovered that 

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[Jacob Bishop]

On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 4:56 PM, John Kane jrkrid...@yahoo.ca wrote:


 It's not some kind of self-help group but a high-powered group of experts
 providing advice. As a rough analogy, think of having the R Core
 Development team plus a few major package maintainers running a blog.

 It speaks to the importance of APA style overall. I think I mentioned in
 the earlier discussion of the importance of having an APA6 document class
 and this blog seems to strengthen that idea. I believe I mentioned that the
 APA5 manual states that over 1000 journals, and students ranging from
 nursing to nuclear technology (Personal communication Oct. 2012) use it.


Okay, so I actually looked at it this time. I agree that the blog
strengthens the case for APA being important. I find it interesting that
you make that comment. Many times I find that when people refer to
something as (merely) a blog, it is to discredit the source. Here, you are
making the opposite case. Like I said, I agree with your point. It's like
it adds another dimension to it. They're not the only ones, either. As an
actual example of your analogy to the R Core Development team, the
Mathworks (who develops Matlab) have at least a half-dozen regularly
maintained blogs.

Jacob

The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[John Kane]

I was poking around the Zotero site trying to see if there was a way to get a 
specific APA citation format [Author (date)] which is easy enough in LyX or 
LaTeX to work in a word processor such as AOO Writer or MS Word[1]. Well 
actually  I was finding that Zotero inserts the citation in (Author, Date) 
format without allowing modifications as one can when inserting from a bibtex 
file and hoped to find a way to avoid having to go back and edit later if it 
could be done in a word processor.

I found a discussion of exactly that issue on a Zotero forum and came across a 
reference to the American Psychology Association blog that, as far as I can 
see, is almost exclusively devoted to advice on how to deal with the 
Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association. As they say, “The 
APA Style Blog is the official companion to the Publication Manual of the 
American Psychological Association, Sixth Edition”.

I know, from personal experience, that everyone from undergraduates to tenured 
professors obsess over proper referencing but a blog? Does anyone know of the 
existence of something like this for any other style manual?

I don't have the slightest idea of how many APA Manual users use LyX or LaTeX 
but I think it's very nice that LyX offers it. Well that's partially just me 
being selfish but a lack of the APA6 document class would be a complete 
deal-breaker for anyone wanting to use LyX. Oh, and while poking along I ran 
over a note that the Manual was being translated into Arabic, Simple Chinese, 
Italian, Nepalese, Polish, Romanian, Portuguese, and Spanish among other 
languages.

1. The answer was no, Zotero does not do this but there is a reasonable work 
around: Just type the Author part and insert the reference with author 
suppressed. 

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[Jacob Bishop]

On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 8:13 AM, John Kane  wrote:

> I was poking around the Zotero site trying to see if there was a way to
> get a specific APA citation format [Author (date)] which is easy enough in
> LyX or LaTeX to work in a word processor such as AOO Writer or MS Word[1].
> Well actually
>

I don't know if you are aware, but there is a project called Docear4word.
See http://www.docear.org/category/docear4word/ Now, I use LyX for writing
papers, along with JabRef, which uses BibTeX. If I had to use Word, though,
I would probably use Docear4word, because it also works nicely with JabRef.


> I was finding that Zotero inserts the citation in (Author, Date) format
> without allowing modifications as one can when inserting from a bibtex file
> and hoped to find a way to avoid having to go back and edit later if it
> could be done in a word processor.
>
> I found a discussion of exactly that issue on a Zotero forum and came
> across a reference to the American Psychology Association blog that, as far
> as I can see, is almost exclusively devoted to advice on how to deal with
> the Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association. As they
> say, “The APA Style Blog is the official companion to the Publication
> Manual of the American Psychological Association, Sixth Edition”.
>
> I know, from personal experience, that everyone from undergraduates to
> tenured professors obsess over proper referencing but a blog?
>

Why not? I think things like this help people pull together and deal with
the difficult circumstances. You know, when they feel trapped. It sounds
sort of like an alcoholics anonymous group, but for academics in the social
sciences, who, for one reason or another, just can't stop using APA.


> Does anyone know of the existence of something like this for any other
> style manual?
>
I don't have the slightest idea of how many APA Manual users use LyX or
> LaTeX but I think it's very nice that LyX offers it. Well that's partially
> just me being selfish but a lack of the APA6 document class would be a
> complete deal-breaker for anyone wanting to use LyX. Oh, and while poking
> along I ran over a note that the Manual was being translated into Arabic,
> Simple Chinese, Italian, Nepalese, Polish, Romanian, Portuguese, and
> Spanish among other languages.
>

I agree, APA use is widespread,and it probably will not slowing down any
time soon. I think it will be best if we just try to learn to cope with it.

>
> 1. The answer was no, Zotero does not do this but there is a reasonable
> work around: Just type the Author part and insert the reference with author
> suppressed.
>

Jacob

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[John Kane]

 From: Jacob Bishop 
To: John Kane  
Cc: "lyx-users@lists.lyx.org"  
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 1:38:15 PM
Subject: Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)
 




On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 8:13 AM, John Kane  wrote:

I was poking around the Zotero site trying to see if there was a way to get a 
specific APA citation format [Author (date)] which is easy enough in LyX or 
LaTeX to work in a word processor such as AOO Writer or MS Word[1]. Well 
actually  

I don't know if you are aware, but there is a project called Docear4word. See 
http://www.docear.org/category/docear4word/ Now, I use LyX for writing papers, 
along with JabRef, which uses BibTeX. If I had to use Word, though, I would 
probably use Docear4word, because it also works nicely with JabRef. 

No I had not heard of it. Seems a bit interesting though I detest Word. I was 
one of the beta tester for Excel--my university was a site and I liked it but I 
have never liked the design or philosophy of Word.

I use OpenOffice and occasionally LibreOffice but if I were to do all my 
writing in them I'd stick with Zotero. Bibtex with JabRef is okay but it really 
is just a way to hanle references. 

Zotero is a pretty complete bibliographic management system which allows the 
storage of articles, etc, within the data base--heck I've got 2 or 3 pdf books 
from various places stored there, tagging, linking, and the maintanance of 
elaborate notes. 

It looks like it was designed by working scholars for working scholars and it 
seems to interface pretty smoothly with Word and OpenOffice with that Author 
alone problem being one exception

 
I was finding that Zotero inserts the citation in (Author, Date) format without 
allowing modifications as one can when inserting from a bibtex file and hoped 
to find a way to avoid having to go back and edit later if it could be done in 
a word processor.
>
>I found a discussion of exactly that issue on a Zotero forum and came across a 
>reference to the American Psychology Association blog that, as far as I can 
>see, is almost exclusively devoted to advice on how to deal with the 
>Publication Manual of the American Psychological Association. As they say, 
>“The APA Style Blog is the
 official companion to the Publication Manual of the American Psychological 
Association, Sixth Edition”.
>
>I know, from personal experience, that everyone from undergraduates to tenured 
>professors obsess over proper referencing but a blog? 

Why not? I think things like this help people pull together and deal with the 
difficult circumstances. You know, when they feel trapped. It sounds sort of 
like an alcoholics anonymous group, but for academics in the social sciences, 
who, for one reason or another, just can't stop using APA.

No, no, no, This is not a self-help blog. You need to have a look at the blog. 
http://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/. It is written by what 12 full-time APA 
experts in publications 
http://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/apa-style-experts.html. This means by the 
experts  by the people who turn out all the major APA journals , books and who 
maintain or help maintain PsycINFO

It's not some kind of self-help group but a high-powered group of experts 
providing advice. As a rough analogy, think of having the R Core Development 
team plus a few major package maintainers running a blog.

It speaks to the importance of APA style overall. I think I mentioned in the 
earlier discussion of the importance of having an APA6 document class and this 
blog seems to strengthen that idea. I believe I mentioned that the APA5 manual 
states that over 1000 journals, and students ranging from nursing to nuclear 
technology (Personal communication Oct. 2012) use it.

In fact, in poking around the APA site I got the impression that publishing and 
supporting APA style is a major industry.

In spite of some of the Manual's insane pickiness, it does provide a common 
language and format for reporting a lot of things. You know where to look for 
information and exactly in what format to expect it. One does not have to worry 
if the authors are reporting measurements in Babylonian cubits or whatever--you 
know it's IS0.

Also, come to think of it, in overall form it may well speak to its importance 
from a legal perspective as well. If you are a nuclear engineering report on an 
accident, a nurse drafting a patient report for official consideration, or a 
clinical psychologist preparing for a custody hearing, you all have a stable 
template to work from: no one has to re-invent the wheel and everyone receiving 
the information knows what they are getting.In many cases it is difficult to 
overstate the importance of standardization. 

As an aside I worked on a project a few years ago where we were dealing with 
data from all across Canada. At the time, when building one of our data bases 
we 

Re: The tyranny of the APA Manual (more or less on topic)

[Jacob Bishop]

On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 4:56 PM, John Kane  wrote:

>
> It's not some kind of self-help group but a high-powered group of experts
> providing advice. As a rough analogy, think of having the R Core
> Development team plus a few major package maintainers running a blog.
>
> It speaks to the importance of APA style overall. I think I mentioned in
> the earlier discussion of the importance of having an APA6 document class
> and this blog seems to strengthen that idea. I believe I mentioned that the
> APA5 manual states that over 1000 journals, and students ranging from
> nursing to nuclear technology (Personal communication Oct. 2012) use it.
>

Okay, so I actually looked at it this time. I agree that the blog
strengthens the case for APA being important. I find it interesting that
you make that comment. Many times I find that when people refer to
something as (merely) a blog, it is to discredit the source. Here, you are
making the opposite case. Like I said, I agree with your point. It's like
it adds another dimension to it. They're not the only ones, either. As an
actual example of your analogy to the R Core Development team, the
Mathworks (who develops Matlab) have at least a half-dozen regularly
maintained blogs.

Jacob