Re: [M100] Wiring Question

[Mike Stein]

Glad you got it sorted.

BTW, not that it matters much in your application but I'd be surprised if
that cord were not polarized. Most cords like that are, and yours looks
like it has a ridge on one side that denotes the neutral (some cords use a
white stripe). Are you sure that one blade of the plug isn't wider than the
other so it can only plug in one way?

It's not a matter of plus or minus but of safety; on a lamp for instance
where you can touch the threaded part while changing a bulb you want to be
sure that it's connected to ground and not the 115+ volt hot 'line' side
and that the switch turns off the 115V and not the grounded 'neutral'.

m



On Fri, Dec 9, 2022 at 3:04 PM Spencer  wrote:

> Hello Brian.
>
> It's a SPST 3 position switch.  Link ==>  10x SPST Red Neon Light On/Off
> Round Rocker Switch 6A/250V 10A/125V AC | eBay
> 
>
> Been busy - darn gum surgery. Not fun ;-(
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 07:16:09 PM EST, Brian K. White <
> b.kenyo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> If the plug is not polarized then there is no hot or neutral.
>
> One wire IS hot (swings from -120v to +120v relative to GND).
> And one wire IS neutral (stays at 0v relative to GND).
>
> Relative to each other, it's the same 120vac either direction, or
> rather, there is no such thing as a direction.
>
> But if the plug is not polarized then you have to treat both wires as
> equally hot, since every time it's plugged in either side could be the
> hot side that time, at random.
>
> Switches come in all kinds of arrangements, so the only way to know how
> to wire this particular switch is to test it with a continuity tester
> and observe what connections it makes in each position, or consult it's
> datasheet. Sometimes there is a diagram of the connections drawn right
> on the body, otherwise google it's model number or find the datasheet
> from the website where you got it or perhaps it's packaging.
>
> A rocker with 3 pins and 2 positions (you didn't say how many positions
> btw so I'm assuming) is fairly likely to be a center-common SPDT on-on,
> hopefully non-shorting (break-before-make). Meaning the center pin is
> connected to either one side or the other at any given time. When you're
> turning one pin off, you're also turning the other pin on at the same
> time. In this case since yoiu only care about turning something on/off,
> you would just use the common pin and either one of the others. You just
> run your hot wire from the wall to the center pin and connect the load
> to either of the other pins, either one, doesn't matter, but only one,
> and leave the other pin unconnected. (might want to cover it with
> heat-shrink)
>
> Except that is just one common configuration and might not be right for
> your switch.
>
> Really the switch could be totally different. It might have 3 positions
> and be on-off-on, or the common pin might not be the center pin, or it
> could be a lighted switch where only 2 pins are for switching and the
> 3rd pin is to power the light, and that light may also possibly not take
> the same voltage as what's passing through the main pins.
>
> Even a lighted switch where at least one of the pins is definitely
> special and different, still doesn't necessarily have a right way to
> wire it, since it's still up to you to decide when you want the light to
> be on. Usually you want the light to reflect the power state, on when
> the device is turned on. Or maybe you want the light to be a pilot light
> that is on at all times so that you can find it in the dark, or so that
> it indicates when power is available to the device rather than
> indicating when the device is turned on.
>
> There is unlikely to be a particular pin for GND. It's possible if the
> switch has a metal body, or for example light switches in walls, or if
> it has a light it might have a specific gnd pin, but generally there is
> no such thing as a gnd pin on a switch, they are just contacts which you
> connect to whatever your application requires. The closest thing to a
> right or wrong is a general rule that for a mains power switch would be
> to switch the hot side rather than the neutral side, simply so that when
> it's in the off position, the least amount of things are hot.
>
> But since you have a non-polarized plug, both wires are equally likely
> to be hot at any given time, and so you just pick either one for the
> switch, and treat the entire inside of the box as hot, and make sure the
> whole box is well sealed and insulated, and users are well protected
> from the internals. Or better, get rid of the non-polarized plug and use
> a polarized one, and then you have an actual hot side to treat as the
> hot side.
>
> --
> bkw
>
> On 12/5/22 21:52, Spencer wrote:
> > Hello
> >
> > Got a wiring question.
> >
> > I built a simple 18VDC PS from JameCo and I put it in a project box.
> > I've added two pots for adjusting power, banana plugs for external
> > power, two mini 

Re: [M100] Wiring Question

[Spencer]

 Hello Brian.
It's a SPST 3 position switch.  Link ==>  10x SPST Red Neon Light On/Off Round 
Rocker Switch 6A/250V 10A/125V AC | eBay
Been busy - darn gum surgery. Not fun ;-(

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 07:16:09 PM EST, Brian K. White 
 wrote:  
 
 If the plug is not polarized then there is no hot or neutral.

One wire IS hot (swings from -120v to +120v relative to GND).
And one wire IS neutral (stays at 0v relative to GND).

Relative to each other, it's the same 120vac either direction, or 
rather, there is no such thing as a direction.

But if the plug is not polarized then you have to treat both wires as 
equally hot, since every time it's plugged in either side could be the 
hot side that time, at random.

Switches come in all kinds of arrangements, so the only way to know how 
to wire this particular switch is to test it with a continuity tester 
and observe what connections it makes in each position, or consult it's 
datasheet. Sometimes there is a diagram of the connections drawn right 
on the body, otherwise google it's model number or find the datasheet 
from the website where you got it or perhaps it's packaging.

A rocker with 3 pins and 2 positions (you didn't say how many positions 
btw so I'm assuming) is fairly likely to be a center-common SPDT on-on, 
hopefully non-shorting (break-before-make). Meaning the center pin is 
connected to either one side or the other at any given time. When you're 
turning one pin off, you're also turning the other pin on at the same 
time. In this case since yoiu only care about turning something on/off, 
you would just use the common pin and either one of the others. You just 
run your hot wire from the wall to the center pin and connect the load 
to either of the other pins, either one, doesn't matter, but only one, 
and leave the other pin unconnected. (might want to cover it with 
heat-shrink)

Except that is just one common configuration and might not be right for 
your switch.

Really the switch could be totally different. It might have 3 positions 
and be on-off-on, or the common pin might not be the center pin, or it 
could be a lighted switch where only 2 pins are for switching and the 
3rd pin is to power the light, and that light may also possibly not take 
the same voltage as what's passing through the main pins.

Even a lighted switch where at least one of the pins is definitely 
special and different, still doesn't necessarily have a right way to 
wire it, since it's still up to you to decide when you want the light to 
be on. Usually you want the light to reflect the power state, on when 
the device is turned on. Or maybe you want the light to be a pilot light 
that is on at all times so that you can find it in the dark, or so that 
it indicates when power is available to the device rather than 
indicating when the device is turned on.

There is unlikely to be a particular pin for GND. It's possible if the 
switch has a metal body, or for example light switches in walls, or if 
it has a light it might have a specific gnd pin, but generally there is 
no such thing as a gnd pin on a switch, they are just contacts which you 
connect to whatever your application requires. The closest thing to a 
right or wrong is a general rule that for a mains power switch would be 
to switch the hot side rather than the neutral side, simply so that when 
it's in the off position, the least amount of things are hot.

But since you have a non-polarized plug, both wires are equally likely 
to be hot at any given time, and so you just pick either one for the 
switch, and treat the entire inside of the box as hot, and make sure the 
whole box is well sealed and insulated, and users are well protected 
from the internals. Or better, get rid of the non-polarized plug and use 
a polarized one, and then you have an actual hot side to treat as the 
hot side.

-- 
bkw

On 12/5/22 21:52, Spencer wrote:
> Hello
> 
> Got a wiring question.
> 
> I built a simple 18VDC PS from JameCo and I put it in a project box. 
> I've added two pots for adjusting power, banana plugs for external 
> power, two mini voltmeters and will add a USB port for 5VDC. All this 
> works but now I want to add a AC rocker.  The above was simple except 
> for the meticulous care that's needed to drill into a metal box. Now the 
> next item I want to add is an AC rocker switch but I'm a bit unsure how. 
> It's a 3 terminal AC rocker, and my understanding is the bronze terminal 
> is ground, the center is the power source, and the 3rd one is 
> accessory/load. What confuses me is the proper way to wire it. If the 
> plug was polarized I wouldn't be confused. I've attached a photo of the 
> back of the PS which shows the two power supply wires (one with writing 
> and the other none). The videos I've seen doesn't explain which is 
> power/live and which is ground using this type of wire. The plug isn't 
> polarized so it's not easy for me to determine + from -.  I put a meter 
> to the wires inside 

Re: [M100] REX availability

[Chris Kmiec]

Great! Would like REXCPM for 102 and REX for 100.

Chris

On Thu, Dec 8, 2022, 11:20 PM Stephen Adolph  wrote:

> Yes they are!  For rexcpm you need s machine specific adapter.  M100 or
> t102?
>
>
>
> On Thursday, December 8, 2022, Chris Kmiec  wrote:
>
>> I have one in my 102, and just got another 100 and 102. Would like to get
>> both REX and REXCPM. Are they still available?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>

Re: [M100] Better TELCOM program / ROM

[Cedric Amand]

Thanks, I'm glad to see I'm not alone with those M200 freezes when using serial 
comm, I also believe it's due to flow control, specifically xon/xoff , I may be 
able to exit out of the freeze with an escape code, i'll try that. It's likely 
CTS/RTS has been implemented as a hardware interrupt, whereas the xon/xoff 
support is obviously software and can leave "dead links" if they implemented 
that without any timeout. (It's just a hunch I did not investigate that so 
don't quote me on this.) The device seems less likely to "hang" with hardware 
flow control. The M102 also crashes less than my M200 for whatever reason. I'm 
probably a nerd but I like to use serial communication to make demos, or simply 
revive those programs and learn those techniques again. I have a serial link 
between M200 and M102 and you quickly hit the limitations of stock "telcom"; 
Also some features exist int he M200 telcom but not on the m100/102 ( like line 
feed CR/LF conversions ) which explains why the STAT strings are different. So 
communication between those two is limited. I'll have a look at HTERM Le 
2022-12-08 21:05, B 9  a écrit : > > > The frozen thing is 
common for me with TELCOM as well when I remove the serial cable. I don't know 
if that's a Tandy 200 thing or if it affects the Model 100 as well. > > > > I 
presume it has something to do with Carrier Detect, or the like. The solution 
is to hit Shift-Break then F8. Every time you hit Shift-Break, TELCOM seems to 
process one character before it gets stuck waiting again for CD, so you might 
have to hit it repeatedly. > > > > I have heard that John Hogerhuis's HTERM is 
the consensus best terminal, but I have not used it yet. > > > > For file 
transfers, I use dlplus (https://github.com/bkw777/dlplus) (also originally 
written by John Hogerhuis, but I believe it is now maintained by Brian White). 
Dlplus is nicer than xmodem because it acts like a drive. It also has a nifty 
bootstrap mode (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0xx9cOe97s) that gets a binary 
transfer program onto your T200. Just run this on your host side and follow the 
prompts: > > > > ```bash > > dlplus -b DSKMGR.200 > > ``` > > > > If you are 
connecting to a UNIX box via TELCOM, I humbly suggest giving my Tandy Terminfo 
(https://github.com/hackerb9/Tandy-Terminfo/) a try. > > > > --b9 > > > > > 
P.S. There are other options than DSKMGR.200 if you find it takes too much 
space. Use `dlplus -l` to see them. > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 
at 4:54 AM Cedric Amand mailto:ced...@cedric.net)> wrote: > 
> > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > > > > > Very simple question ; is there a 
more sophisticated program than TELCOM for modem or direct serial 
communications ? > > > > Maybe part of a ROM ? > > > > > > > > Specifically, 
something that would support xmodem or make file exchanges easier ? Also maybe 
easier settings than "stat" :) > > > > > > > > I also often find myself with 
the M200 "frozen" when doing serial communication (cannot F8 anymore, need to 
RESET), like if I hangup on one side, the receiving M200 is frozen. > > > > Am 
I doing something wrong ? > > > > > > > > Thanks ! > > > > > > > > >