Re: [M100] mvt100 and the pc terminal

[Brian K. White]

To use a tpdd at the same time as a mvt100, you'd have to connect the 
mvt100 via the BCR port and not the serial port, and that requires doing 
the hardware mod to the 100 to bring an output signal out to a pin on 
the BCR port, and that's going to be TTL not RS-232, so the receiver 
should be a hardware mvt100 or a usb-ttl adapter like for programming a 
microcontroller and not a full usb-serial adapter with a DE9 plug.


--
bkw

On 3/18/24 22:26, Will Senn wrote:
Cool, so I can put my m100 in front of my monitor and use my monitor 
running windows in a vm running vt 52 and treat it like a giant 80x25 
display - I'm in. I'd sure like to use my fancy keyboard and leave my 
M100 "over there", but this will work, too.


If I'm understanding things, though, I can't do TPDD stuff while the 
monitor's displaying unless I work out the cassette-serial half-duplex 
thing...


It seems like I can only do this in BASIC? cuz that's where I typed 
SCREEN 1. If I press F8, it prints MENU and takes me to the menu, but...


[insert short rant here]
oh, wait, I was going to test it but "Updates are underway..." in 
Windows how can y'all stand it?! The good news is, "You're 96% there..." 
still... ok, finally, windoze finished whatever it was doing..

[/done ranting 3 minutes or so later]

then, when I run TEXT, I see the < character and I can type, but I don't 
see any echo. Then, back in basic, I can load what I wrote in TEXT and 
it's there and I can see it...


Later,

Will

On 3/18/24 9:05 PM, Brian K. White wrote:
MVT100 the hardware is the serial-to-video part of an ordinary serial 
terminal, used as a display output only, no keyboard, one-way 
communication from host to screen, no keyboard to host. And just the 
electronics, ie instead of having a screen, it has a vga out.

https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=VT100

It's a subset of an ordinary serial terminal, so you could do the same 
thing with any serial terminal or terminal emulator, except what's 
special about it is it renders the M100-specific terminal codes and 
maybe uses the font from the Disk/Video Interface (I don't remember).


And in addition to regular rs-232 it also supports a special serial 
interface using a hardware mod to the barcode port on a M100 which can 
output ttl serial at higher baud rates, and doesn't occupy the regular 
serial port uart or the physical port, so the regular serial port on 
the 100 can be used at the same time as the serial display.

https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=BCR_TTL_SERIAL_HACK


The desktop application is a terminal emulator where the terminal it's 
emulating is the MVT100 that's all. But since it's display-only, you 
still have to use the keyboard on the 100 itself. Like the mvt100, 
it's 1/2 of a terminal just used as a display.



On the 100, it needs the driver software Steve provides, which works 
the same way the Disk/Video Interface does, using the CRT: hooks in 
the main rom.

https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=Integrated_VT100_driver

I can't find where the rom hooks are documented.
The hand-wavy no-actual-details explanation is the main rom has some 
special hook addresses that it will read or jump to at various times, 
and those addresses normally just contain a no-op or a return 
instruction so they do nothing. The addresses are in ram space, so you 
can write to them. So you install some code somewhere in ram, and 
write the address to your code into the hook address. Now when the 
main rom reads or jumps to that hook, it runs your code instead of 
doing nothing.


One of those is the CRT: output. The Disk/Video Interface installs 
some driver code that makes the CRT: interface actually do something 
(sends data over the system bus to the DVI), and adds some functions 
to BASIC to use it.






--
bkw

Re: [M100] mvt100 and the pc terminal

[Stephen Adolph]

It works like the DVI works.

Menu in the LCD.
Apps on the "screen" as defined by the basic command.

Option roms are probably incompatible.

So the utility is really maximized around cpm.  And Turbo Pascal but as you
know that is yet more churn.

Thx
Steve


On Monday, March 18, 2024, Will Senn  wrote:

> Cool, so I can put my m100 in front of my monitor and use my monitor
> running windows in a vm running vt 52 and treat it like a giant 80x25
> display - I'm in. I'd sure like to use my fancy keyboard and leave my M100
> "over there", but this will work, too.
>
> If I'm understanding things, though, I can't do TPDD stuff while the
> monitor's displaying unless I work out the cassette-serial half-duplex
> thing...
>
> It seems like I can only do this in BASIC? cuz that's where I typed SCREEN
> 1. If I press F8, it prints MENU and takes me to the menu, but...
>
> [insert short rant here]
> oh, wait, I was going to test it but "Updates are underway..." in Windows
> how can y'all stand it?! The good news is, "You're 96% there..." still...
> ok, finally, windoze finished whatever it was doing..
> [/done ranting 3 minutes or so later]
>
> then, when I run TEXT, I see the < character and I can type, but I don't
> see any echo. Then, back in basic, I can load what I wrote in TEXT and it's
> there and I can see it...
>
> Later,
>
> Will
>
> On 3/18/24 9:05 PM, Brian K. White wrote:
>
>> MVT100 the hardware is the serial-to-video part of an ordinary serial
>> terminal, used as a display output only, no keyboard, one-way communication
>> from host to screen, no keyboard to host. And just the electronics, ie
>> instead of having a screen, it has a vga out.
>> https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=VT100
>>
>> It's a subset of an ordinary serial terminal, so you could do the same
>> thing with any serial terminal or terminal emulator, except what's special
>> about it is it renders the M100-specific terminal codes and maybe uses the
>> font from the Disk/Video Interface (I don't remember).
>>
>> And in addition to regular rs-232 it also supports a special serial
>> interface using a hardware mod to the barcode port on a M100 which can
>> output ttl serial at higher baud rates, and doesn't occupy the regular
>> serial port uart or the physical port, so the regular serial port on the
>> 100 can be used at the same time as the serial display.
>> https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=BCR_TTL_SERIAL_HACK
>>
>>
>> The desktop application is a terminal emulator where the terminal it's
>> emulating is the MVT100 that's all. But since it's display-only, you still
>> have to use the keyboard on the 100 itself. Like the mvt100, it's 1/2 of a
>> terminal just used as a display.
>>
>>
>> On the 100, it needs the driver software Steve provides, which works the
>> same way the Disk/Video Interface does, using the CRT: hooks in the main
>> rom.
>> https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=Integrated_VT100_driver
>>
>> I can't find where the rom hooks are documented.
>> The hand-wavy no-actual-details explanation is the main rom has some
>> special hook addresses that it will read or jump to at various times, and
>> those addresses normally just contain a no-op or a return instruction so
>> they do nothing. The addresses are in ram space, so you can write to them.
>> So you install some code somewhere in ram, and write the address to your
>> code into the hook address. Now when the main rom reads or jumps to that
>> hook, it runs your code instead of doing nothing.
>>
>> One of those is the CRT: output. The Disk/Video Interface installs some
>> driver code that makes the CRT: interface actually do something (sends data
>> over the system bus to the DVI), and adds some functions to BASIC to use it.
>>
>>
>

Re: [M100] mvt100 and the pc terminal

[Will Senn]

Thanks Steve,

Got it. Still quite useful and very cool. I don't really know CP/M... 
yet. I will go looking for console over serial and CP/M... I will have 
tor restore my CP/M and REXCPM stuff cuz I reset when I got a blank 
screen and couldn't figure out how to get out of it (now I just type 
SCREEN 0 and don't worry about echo) in BASIC and it's fine. Live and learn.


Thanks,

Will


On 3/18/24 9:21 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:

One way only.
Mvt100 either as the hardware adapter or the pc app is for display 
only.  Does not solve the issue of cpm over serial.


Having said that, doesn't m100cpm support console over serial?  I 
thought it did same as any cpm.


Steve

On Monday, March 18, 2024, Will Senn  wrote:

Well, that's an exercise in wild. I'm not sure if I track with the
discussion, but here's what I did:

in Windoze:

Downloaded the MVT100 app for the desktop (doesn't work in wine
after all). Ran it from my Win 11 VM, captured the serial port,
prolific maps it to COM3, fine. Then I started up the terminal and
it was blank screen, but looked fine. I hit F6 and entered COM3,
no errors, great.

In M100:
used TEENY to bring over VT100.CO  and loaded it.
Looks just like before. Read here, read there, and then:
SCREEN 1
on the M100, this means no LCD changes... eventually figured out
to look over to my desktop, sure enough, lots of output on the
terminal. Great. So, if I type on the M100, I get output on my
giant 32 inch display, yay.

How to type on the terminal? I tried stuff with F5, but haven't
gotten the magic sauce right yet. Is it one way only?

Thanks,

Will

On 3/18/24 8:21 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:

So does rexcpm.
Connect rs232 to pc port and display 80x24 like a dvi.
Cntl V at menu to configure!


On Monday, March 18, 2024, John R. Hogerhuis 
wrote:

Rex supports it. Or I think you need the vt100 driver
software  from this page:


https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=VT100


The point of this is to give you a bigger more readable display.

A subset of the DVI's functionality.

-- John.

On Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 5:07 PM Will Senn 
wrote:

I'm a little confused about the MVT100...

on this page:


https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=MVT100_Desktop_Application



It sounds like it's a terminal emulator for connecting to
the M100 over serial. But somewhere else I saw it as some
kind of adapter to talk to VGA. I'm guessing it's both -
adapter gadget provides the VGA out thing and provides a
server for the pc terminal app? I downloaded the software
and it runs fine on linux under wine (to the degree that
it appears to start up and not crash. I couldn't figure
out how to get it to talk to my m100... so I'm guessing I
need the hardware gadget in addition to my rexcpm to get
it working?

Thanks,

Will

Re: [M100] mvt100 and the pc terminal

[Will Senn]

Cool, so I can put my m100 in front of my monitor and use my monitor 
running windows in a vm running vt 52 and treat it like a giant 80x25 
display - I'm in. I'd sure like to use my fancy keyboard and leave my 
M100 "over there", but this will work, too.


If I'm understanding things, though, I can't do TPDD stuff while the 
monitor's displaying unless I work out the cassette-serial half-duplex 
thing...


It seems like I can only do this in BASIC? cuz that's where I typed 
SCREEN 1. If I press F8, it prints MENU and takes me to the menu, but...


[insert short rant here]
oh, wait, I was going to test it but "Updates are underway..." in 
Windows how can y'all stand it?! The good news is, "You're 96% there..." 
still... ok, finally, windoze finished whatever it was doing..

[/done ranting 3 minutes or so later]

then, when I run TEXT, I see the < character and I can type, but I don't 
see any echo. Then, back in basic, I can load what I wrote in TEXT and 
it's there and I can see it...


Later,

Will

On 3/18/24 9:05 PM, Brian K. White wrote:
MVT100 the hardware is the serial-to-video part of an ordinary serial 
terminal, used as a display output only, no keyboard, one-way 
communication from host to screen, no keyboard to host. And just the 
electronics, ie instead of having a screen, it has a vga out.

https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=VT100

It's a subset of an ordinary serial terminal, so you could do the same 
thing with any serial terminal or terminal emulator, except what's 
special about it is it renders the M100-specific terminal codes and 
maybe uses the font from the Disk/Video Interface (I don't remember).


And in addition to regular rs-232 it also supports a special serial 
interface using a hardware mod to the barcode port on a M100 which can 
output ttl serial at higher baud rates, and doesn't occupy the regular 
serial port uart or the physical port, so the regular serial port on 
the 100 can be used at the same time as the serial display.

https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=BCR_TTL_SERIAL_HACK


The desktop application is a terminal emulator where the terminal it's 
emulating is the MVT100 that's all. But since it's display-only, you 
still have to use the keyboard on the 100 itself. Like the mvt100, 
it's 1/2 of a terminal just used as a display.



On the 100, it needs the driver software Steve provides, which works 
the same way the Disk/Video Interface does, using the CRT: hooks in 
the main rom.

https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=Integrated_VT100_driver

I can't find where the rom hooks are documented.
The hand-wavy no-actual-details explanation is the main rom has some 
special hook addresses that it will read or jump to at various times, 
and those addresses normally just contain a no-op or a return 
instruction so they do nothing. The addresses are in ram space, so you 
can write to them. So you install some code somewhere in ram, and 
write the address to your code into the hook address. Now when the 
main rom reads or jumps to that hook, it runs your code instead of 
doing nothing.


One of those is the CRT: output. The Disk/Video Interface installs 
some driver code that makes the CRT: interface actually do something 
(sends data over the system bus to the DVI), and adds some functions 
to BASIC to use it.

Re: [M100] mvt100 and the pc terminal

[Stephen Adolph]

One way only.
Mvt100 either as the hardware adapter or the pc app is for display only.
Does not solve the issue of cpm over serial.

Having said that, doesn't m100cpm support console over serial?  I thought
it did same as any cpm.

Steve

On Monday, March 18, 2024, Will Senn  wrote:

> Well, that's an exercise in wild. I'm not sure if I track with the
> discussion, but here's what I did:
>
> in Windoze:
>
> Downloaded the MVT100 app for the desktop (doesn't work in wine after
> all). Ran it from my Win 11 VM, captured the serial port, prolific maps it
> to COM3, fine. Then I started up the terminal and it was blank screen, but
> looked fine. I hit F6 and entered COM3, no errors, great.
>
> In M100:
> used TEENY to bring over VT100.CO and loaded it. Looks just like before.
> Read here, read there, and then:
> SCREEN 1
> on the M100, this means no LCD changes... eventually figured out to look
> over to my desktop, sure enough, lots of output on the terminal. Great. So,
> if I type on the M100, I get output on my giant 32 inch display, yay.
>
> How to type on the terminal? I tried stuff with F5, but haven't gotten the
> magic sauce right yet. Is it one way only?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Will
>
> On 3/18/24 8:21 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>
> So does rexcpm.
> Connect rs232 to pc port and display 80x24 like a dvi.
> Cntl V at menu to configure!
>
>
> On Monday, March 18, 2024, John R. Hogerhuis  wrote:
>
>> Rex supports it. Or I think you need the vt100 driver software  from this
>> page:
>>
>>
>> https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=VT100
>>
>> The point of this is to give you a bigger more readable display.
>>
>> A subset of the DVI's functionality.
>>
>> -- John.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 5:07 PM Will Senn  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm a little confused about the MVT100...
>>>
>>> on this page:
>>>
>>> https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=MVT100_Desktop_Application
>>>
>>> It sounds like it's a terminal emulator for connecting to the M100 over
>>> serial. But somewhere else I saw it as some kind of adapter to talk to VGA.
>>> I'm guessing it's both - adapter gadget provides the VGA out thing and
>>> provides a server for the pc terminal app? I downloaded the software and it
>>> runs fine on linux under wine (to the degree that it appears to start up
>>> and not crash. I couldn't figure out how to get it to talk to my m100... so
>>> I'm guessing I need the hardware gadget in addition to my rexcpm to get it
>>> working?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Will
>>>
>>
>

Re: [M100] mvt100 and the pc terminal

[Brian K. White]

MVT100 the hardware is the serial-to-video part of an ordinary serial 
terminal, used as a display output only, no keyboard, one-way 
communication from host to screen, no keyboard to host. And just the 
electronics, ie instead of having a screen, it has a vga out.

https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=VT100

It's a subset of an ordinary serial terminal, so you could do the same 
thing with any serial terminal or terminal emulator, except what's 
special about it is it renders the M100-specific terminal codes and 
maybe uses the font from the Disk/Video Interface (I don't remember).


And in addition to regular rs-232 it also supports a special serial 
interface using a hardware mod to the barcode port on a M100 which can 
output ttl serial at higher baud rates, and doesn't occupy the regular 
serial port uart or the physical port, so the regular serial port on the 
100 can be used at the same time as the serial display.

https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=BCR_TTL_SERIAL_HACK


The desktop application is a terminal emulator where the terminal it's 
emulating is the MVT100 that's all. But since it's display-only, you 
still have to use the keyboard on the 100 itself. Like the mvt100, it's 
1/2 of a terminal just used as a display.



On the 100, it needs the driver software Steve provides, which works the 
same way the Disk/Video Interface does, using the CRT: hooks in the main 
rom.

https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=Integrated_VT100_driver

I can't find where the rom hooks are documented.
The hand-wavy no-actual-details explanation is the main rom has some 
special hook addresses that it will read or jump to at various times, 
and those addresses normally just contain a no-op or a return 
instruction so they do nothing. The addresses are in ram space, so you 
can write to them. So you install some code somewhere in ram, and write 
the address to your code into the hook address. Now when the main rom 
reads or jumps to that hook, it runs your code instead of doing nothing.


One of those is the CRT: output. The Disk/Video Interface installs some 
driver code that makes the CRT: interface actually do something (sends 
data over the system bus to the DVI), and adds some functions to BASIC 
to use it.


--
bkw

On 3/18/24 20:07, Will Senn wrote:

I'm a little confused about the MVT100...

on this page:

https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=MVT100_Desktop_Application

It sounds like it's a terminal emulator for connecting to the M100 over 
serial. But somewhere else I saw it as some kind of adapter to talk to 
VGA. I'm guessing it's both - adapter gadget provides the VGA out thing 
and provides a server for the pc terminal app? I downloaded the software 
and it runs fine on linux under wine (to the degree that it appears to 
start up and not crash. I couldn't figure out how to get it to talk to 
my m100... so I'm guessing I need the hardware gadget in addition to my 
rexcpm to get it working?


Thanks,

Will


--
bkw

Re: [M100] mvt100 and the pc terminal

[Will Senn]

Well, that's an exercise in wild. I'm not sure if I track with the 
discussion, but here's what I did:


in Windoze:

Downloaded the MVT100 app for the desktop (doesn't work in wine after 
all). Ran it from my Win 11 VM, captured the serial port, prolific maps 
it to COM3, fine. Then I started up the terminal and it was blank 
screen, but looked fine. I hit F6 and entered COM3, no errors, great.


In M100:
used TEENY to bring over VT100.CO and loaded it. Looks just like before. 
Read here, read there, and then:

SCREEN 1
on the M100, this means no LCD changes... eventually figured out to look 
over to my desktop, sure enough, lots of output on the terminal. Great. 
So, if I type on the M100, I get output on my giant 32 inch display, yay.


How to type on the terminal? I tried stuff with F5, but haven't gotten 
the magic sauce right yet. Is it one way only?


Thanks,

Will

On 3/18/24 8:21 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:

So does rexcpm.
Connect rs232 to pc port and display 80x24 like a dvi.
Cntl V at menu to configure!


On Monday, March 18, 2024, John R. Hogerhuis  wrote:

Rex supports it. Or I think you need the vt100 driver software 
from this page:


https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=VT100


The point of this is to give you a bigger more readable display.

A subset of the DVI's functionality.

-- John.

On Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 5:07 PM Will Senn  wrote:

I'm a little confused about the MVT100...

on this page:

https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=MVT100_Desktop_Application


It sounds like it's a terminal emulator for connecting to the
M100 over serial. But somewhere else I saw it as some kind of
adapter to talk to VGA. I'm guessing it's both - adapter
gadget provides the VGA out thing and provides a server for
the pc terminal app? I downloaded the software and it runs
fine on linux under wine (to the degree that it appears to
start up and not crash. I couldn't figure out how to get it to
talk to my m100... so I'm guessing I need the hardware gadget
in addition to my rexcpm to get it working?

Thanks,

Will

Re: [M100] mvt100 and the pc terminal

[Stephen Adolph]

So does rexcpm.
Connect rs232 to pc port and display 80x24 like a dvi.
Cntl V at menu to configure!


On Monday, March 18, 2024, John R. Hogerhuis  wrote:

> Rex supports it. Or I think you need the vt100 driver software  from this
> page:
>
>
> https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=VT100
>
> The point of this is to give you a bigger more readable display.
>
> A subset of the DVI's functionality.
>
> -- John.
>
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 5:07 PM Will Senn  wrote:
>
>> I'm a little confused about the MVT100...
>>
>> on this page:
>>
>> https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=MVT100_Desktop_Application
>>
>> It sounds like it's a terminal emulator for connecting to the M100 over
>> serial. But somewhere else I saw it as some kind of adapter to talk to VGA.
>> I'm guessing it's both - adapter gadget provides the VGA out thing and
>> provides a server for the pc terminal app? I downloaded the software and it
>> runs fine on linux under wine (to the degree that it appears to start up
>> and not crash. I couldn't figure out how to get it to talk to my m100... so
>> I'm guessing I need the hardware gadget in addition to my rexcpm to get it
>> working?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Will
>>
>

Re: [M100] mvt100 and the pc terminal

[Ken St. Cyr]

In answer to your first question, Will - it’s actually both. There's the 
desktop app that lets you use your PC as a terminal (which is the screen shot 
you linked to), but there's also an adapter that lets you connect the M100 
directly to a VGA monitor (the 
MVT100). I did a video on 
the latter a while back, which walks through the build and explains how it 
works - https://youtu.be/CkqcmGkUxGs.

//Ken
Please pardon my brevity; sent from mobile device

From: M100  on behalf of John R. Hogerhuis 

Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 8:15:46 PM
To: m...@bitchin100.com 
Subject: Re: [M100] mvt100 and the pc terminal

Rex supports it. Or I think you need the vt100 driver software  from this page:


https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=VT100

The point of this is to give you a bigger more readable display.

A subset of the DVI's functionality.

-- John.

On Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 5:07 PM Will Senn 
mailto:will.s...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I'm a little confused about the MVT100...

on this page:

https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=MVT100_Desktop_Application

It sounds like it's a terminal emulator for connecting to the M100 over serial. 
But somewhere else I saw it as some kind of adapter to talk to VGA. I'm 
guessing it's both - adapter gadget provides the VGA out thing and provides a 
server for the pc terminal app? I downloaded the software and it runs fine on 
linux under wine (to the degree that it appears to start up and not crash. I 
couldn't figure out how to get it to talk to my m100... so I'm guessing I need 
the hardware gadget in addition to my rexcpm to get it working?

Thanks,

Will

Re: [M100] mvt100 and the pc terminal

[John R. Hogerhuis]

Rex supports it. Or I think you need the vt100 driver software  from this
page:


https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=VT100

The point of this is to give you a bigger more readable display.

A subset of the DVI's functionality.

-- John.

On Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 5:07 PM Will Senn  wrote:

> I'm a little confused about the MVT100...
>
> on this page:
>
> https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=MVT100_Desktop_Application
>
> It sounds like it's a terminal emulator for connecting to the M100 over
> serial. But somewhere else I saw it as some kind of adapter to talk to VGA.
> I'm guessing it's both - adapter gadget provides the VGA out thing and
> provides a server for the pc terminal app? I downloaded the software and it
> runs fine on linux under wine (to the degree that it appears to start up
> and not crash. I couldn't figure out how to get it to talk to my m100... so
> I'm guessing I need the hardware gadget in addition to my rexcpm to get it
> working?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Will
>

[M100] mvt100 and the pc terminal

[Will Senn]

I'm a little confused about the MVT100...

on this page:

https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=MVT100_Desktop_Application

It sounds like it's a terminal emulator for connecting to the M100 over 
serial. But somewhere else I saw it as some kind of adapter to talk to 
VGA. I'm guessing it's both - adapter gadget provides the VGA out thing 
and provides a server for the pc terminal app? I downloaded the software 
and it runs fine on linux under wine (to the degree that it appears to 
start up and not crash. I couldn't figure out how to get it to talk to 
my m100... so I'm guessing I need the hardware gadget in addition to my 
rexcpm to get it working?


Thanks,

Will

Re: [M100] retroprinter and the m100

[Gregory McGill]

Glad to hear it

On Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 11:19 AM Will Senn  wrote:

> Hi Gregory,
>
> It's all good. Everything's working now. My exacto knife fix for the
> solder apparently took care of things. I rebuilt the pi's image and got it
> working great.
>
> 1. Configure cups to your printer (mine's a Brother DCP-L2550DW, using
> cups-filter driver) and set the defaults to your liking (mine are):
>
> US Letter
> 2-Sided On (Portrait)
>
> 2. Print a test page (better to know than to wonder, spoken from recent
> experience).
>
> 3. Change two of the settings (ssh into the pi, cd /root/config):
>
> echo -n "CR" > auto_linefeed
> echo -n "ANSI-4" > page_size
>
> 4. reboot the pi (some setting changes don't require them, others seem to,
> better safe than sorry)...
>
> 5. Test by llisting a simple listing in BASIC:
>
> LLIST
>
>
> 6. press F8 to get back to the menu and press enter to test screen print
> (not sure if any graphics will print, but the text works fine).
>
> See the attached image (or look at the scrubbed attachment in the mailing
> list archive).
>
> Absolutely uh-mazing :).
>
> Will
>
>
> On 3/17/24 10:48 PM, Gregory McGill wrote:
>
> Adapter was made because there was a board error on the original board. So
> this adapter fixes whatever was wrong. I'll see if I can get the details
> for you.. If it turns out to be the adapter I could probably get it
> replaced for you if need be or repaired.
>
> On Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 6:47 PM Will Senn  wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> Looks like it was a problem with the adapter. My theory that bits 2 and 3
>> were shorted (oh, that's right, not my theory, but Steve's) was confirmed
>> with a few more character test. So, I posted in the retro printer board,
>> sent several 'contact us' posts to the retro folks (their site sucks), and
>> then...
>>
>> Full disclaimer, I am NOT a hardware guy!! But, I madly took that adapter
>> apart and then after doing both sides, saw where some solder was bleeding
>> over from one pin to another on the female side... and a bit of exacto
>> knife  wizardry later and a bit of worry that I'd destroy it, and voila:
>>
>> 10 RMM ABCLMNOLMNOLMNOPQRS\]^_\]^
>> 20 RMM abclmnolmnolmnopqrs|}~|}~
>> 30 RMM 0123<=>?<=0 -_=/_]?>/",<.>
>> <0 RMM /?!@#,-^..,-
>>
>> 10 REM ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
>> 20 REM abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
>> 30 REM 01234567890 -_=+[];:'",<.>
>> 40 REM /?!@#$%^&*()
>>
>>
>> Yay!
>>
>> Now, I can go about setting this goofy retroprinter up properly.
>>
>> Thanks for the forbearance, assistance and sympathy.
>>
>> Will
>>
>>
>> On 3/17/24 5:46 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:
>>
>> Bit 2 shorted to bit 3?
>>
>> On Sunday, March 17, 2024, Will Senn  wrote:
>>
>>> I tried every config setting... twice or more :).
>>>
>>> It's super consistent in that bits 2, and 3, counting from zero, from
>>> the least significant bits, are having some kind of issue (they aren't
>>> always, zero, or one, but they are always the bits that are wrong and they
>>> are consistently wrong (of the 40 chars or so I tested):
>>>
>>> <0x7f> vs w
>>> 0111
>>> 01110111
>>> 1000 (b3 1->0)
>>>
>>> \ vs T
>>> 01011100
>>> 01010100
>>> 1000 (b3 1->0)
>>>
>>> 4 vs <
>>> 00110100
>>> 0000
>>> 1000 (b3 0->1)
>>>
>>> 5 vs =
>>> 00110101
>>> 0001
>>> 1000 (b3 0->1)
>>> 6 vs >
>>> 00110110
>>> 0010
>>> 1000 (b3 0->1)
>>>
>>> 7 vs ?
>>> 00110111
>>> 0011
>>> 1000 (b3 0->1)
>>>
>>> 8 vs <
>>> 00111000
>>> 0000
>>> 0100 (b3 0->1)
>>>
>>> 9 vs =
>>> 00111001 (b3 0->1)
>>> 0001
>>> 0100
>>>
>>> Weird, huh? Anybody seen anything like it? Can I troubleshoot it with a
>>> multimeter?
>>>
>>> Will
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/17/24 2:13 PM, Will Senn wrote:
>>>
>>> Yep, it's consistent. It took me a while to make some progress on this.
>>> I tried redoing the Centronics side of the cable, and here's my source vs
>>> what the pi sees:
>>>
>>> 10 PRINT "Hello, world!"
>>> 20 GOTO 10
>>>
>>> 10 PRMN\ "Lmllo, orll!"
>>> 20 OO\O 10
>>>
>>> I'm not sure how to troubleshoot...
>>>
>>> I found this in the retroprinter handbook:
>>>
>>> Missing Characters or Repeated Characters:
>>> This is generally because the equipment sending the printout is using
>>> a specific timing mechanism and not necessarily adopting the correct
>>> Centronics signal methods for acknowledgement of data.
>>> We have added the following configuration options to help address
>>> this:
>>> /root/config/handshaking
>>> This allows you to specify how the handshaking is handled between
>>> the computer and the Retro-Printer. This can help overcome issues
>>> with lost characters or repeated characters when the equipment
>>> misses the busy / acknowledge signals.
>>> The parameter takes a value between 0 and 4.
>>> 0 = Busy On (for 5ms), Busy Off, Ack On (for signal time), Ack Off
>>> 1 = Ack On (for signal time), Busy On, Ack Off, Busy Off
>>> 2 = Busy On (for 5ms), Ack On (for signal time), Busy Off, Ack Off
>>> 3 = Ack On (for signal time), Ack Off, Busy On (for 5ms), 

Re: [M100] retroprinter and the m100

[Will Senn]

Hi Gregory,

It's all good. Everything's working now. My exacto knife fix for the 
solder apparently took care of things. I rebuilt the pi's image and got 
it working great.


1. Configure cups to your printer (mine's a Brother DCP-L2550DW, using 
cups-filter driver) and set the defaults to your liking (mine are):


   US Letter
   2-Sided On (Portrait)

2. Print a test page (better to know than to wonder, spoken from recent 
experience).


3. Change two of the settings (ssh into the pi, cd /root/config):

   echo -n "CR" > auto_linefeed
   echo -n "ANSI-4" > page_size

4. reboot the pi (some setting changes don't require them, others seem 
to, better safe than sorry)...


5. Test by llisting a simple listing in BASIC:

   LLIST


6. press F8 to get back to the menu and press enter to test screen print 
(not sure if any graphics will print, but the text works fine).


See the attached image (or look at the scrubbed attachment in the 
mailing list archive).


Absolutely uh-mazing :).

Will


On 3/17/24 10:48 PM, Gregory McGill wrote:
Adapter was made because there was a board error on the original 
board. So this adapter fixes whatever was wrong. I'll see if I can get 
the details for you.. If it turns out to be the adapter I could 
probably get it replaced for you if need be or repaired.


On Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 6:47 PM Will Senn  wrote:

All,

Looks like it was a problem with the adapter. My theory that bits
2 and 3 were shorted (oh, that's right, not my theory, but
Steve's) was confirmed with a few more character test. So, I
posted in the retro printer board, sent several 'contact us' posts
to the retro folks (their site sucks), and then...

Full disclaimer, I am NOT a hardware guy!! But, I madly took that
adapter apart and then after doing both sides, saw where some
solder was bleeding over from one pin to another on the female
side... and a bit of exacto knife wizardry later and a bit of
worry that I'd destroy it, and voila:

10 RMM ABCLMNOLMNOLMNOPQRS\]^_\]^
20 RMM abclmnolmnolmnopqrs|}~|}~
30 RMM 0123<=>?<=0 -_=/_]?>/",<.>
<0 RMM /?!@#,-^..,-

10 REM ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
20 REM abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
30 REM 01234567890 -_=+[];:'",<.>
40 REM /?!@#$%^&*()


Yay!

Now, I can go about setting this goofy retroprinter up properly.

Thanks for the forbearance, assistance and sympathy.

Will


On 3/17/24 5:46 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote:

Bit 2 shorted to bit 3?

On Sunday, March 17, 2024, Will Senn  wrote:

I tried every config setting... twice or more :).

It's super consistent in that bits 2, and 3, counting from
zero, from the least significant bits, are having some kind
of issue (they aren't always, zero, or one, but they are
always the bits that are wrong and they are consistently
wrong (of the 40 chars or so I tested):

<0x7f> vs w
0111
01110111
1000 (b3 1->0)

\ vs T
01011100
01010100
1000 (b3 1->0)

4 vs <
00110100
0000
1000 (b3 0->1)

5 vs =
00110101
0001
1000 (b3 0->1)
6 vs >
00110110
0010
1000 (b3 0->1)

7 vs ?
00110111
0011
1000 (b3 0->1)

8 vs <
00111000
0000
0100 (b3 0->1)

9 vs =
00111001 (b3 0->1)
0001
0100

Weird, huh? Anybody seen anything like it? Can I troubleshoot
it with a multimeter?

Will




On 3/17/24 2:13 PM, Will Senn wrote:

Yep, it's consistent. It took me a while to make some
progress on this. I tried redoing the Centronics side of the
cable, and here's my source vs what the pi sees:

10 PRINT "Hello, world!"
20 GOTO 10

10 PRMN\ "Lmllo, orll!"
20 OO\O 10

I'm not sure how to troubleshoot...

I found this in the retroprinter handbook:

Missing Characters or Repeated Characters:
This is generally because the equipment sending the printout
is using
a specific timing mechanism and not necessarily adopting the
correct
Centronics signal methods for acknowledgement of data.
We have added the following configuration options to help
address
this:
/root/config/handshaking
This allows you to specify how the handshaking is handled
between
the computer and the Retro-Printer. This can help overcome
issues
with lost characters or repeated characters when the equipment
misses the busy / acknowledge signals.
The parameter takes a value between 0 and 4.
0 = Busy On (for 5ms), Busy Off, Ack On (for signal time),
Ack Off
1 = Ack On (for signal time), Busy On, Ack Off, 

Re: [M100] looking for assembler/debugger

[jonathan.y...@telia.com]

I learned a lot from a (paper) copy of 'Mastering CPM' by Alan R. Miller.  
Found a pdf at
https://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/
Jonathan
Original Message
>From : dpl...@alum.mit.edu
Date : 2024-03-18 - 13:57 (CEST)
To : m...@bitchin100.com
Subject : Re: [M100] looking for assembler/debugger
 I also like "8080/8085 assembly language subroutines" by Lance Leventhal 
 https://archive.org/details/80808085assemblyleve/mode/1up
 
  On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 6:32 AM Anthony Coghlan <
  coghl...@gmail.com> wrote:
  
 
 
  
   
What a great thread!  :)  Very late to the party but will add a couple of 
books.  Not M100-specific, but if you’re interested in a couple of very good 
general 8085 books, I would recommend these.  The first is a self-contained 
course (probably a quite popular textbook originally), while the second is a 
more compact reference.  I believe I found both in PDF on 
archive.org (Internet Archive).
   
   

   
   
*  Judi Fernandez and Ruth Ashley, _Introduction to 8080/8085 Assembly 
Language Programming_.
   
   
*  Noel Morris, _Pocket Guide Assembly Language for the 8085_.
   
   

   
   
I’ll have to check out John’s _Inside the Model 100_ reference.
   
   
 
   
   
Best wishes,
   
   
Anthony
   
  
  
   

   
   

   
   


 
  On Thu, Mar 14, 2024 at 10:01 AM David Plass <
  dpl...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
  
 
 
  
   I've forked a fork of a fork of a python-based 8085 assembler: 
   https://github.com/dplassgit/8085-Assembler-trs80-100 which generates a 
BASIC program that you can use to poke your assembly language program into 
memory.
  
  
  
   
On Wed, Mar 13, 2024 at 6:18 PM <
bir...@soigeneris.com> wrote:

   
   
There are a few assemblers that can be hosted on the M100. For my use I 
created an extension for VS Code that supports Telemark Assembler (TASM). TASM 
has been around since the 1980s, still maintained by the original author as of 
a few years ago. 


 You can download the extension from within VS Code or from Github. The Github 
repo also has a shareware copy of TASM and some instructions.


https://github.com/Jeff-Birt/TASM_vsCode_Extension


 Jeff Birt


 -Original Message-

 From: M100 <
m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> On Behalf Of Will Senn

 Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2024 3:05 PM

 To: 
m100@lists.bitchin100.com

 Subject: [M100] looking for assembler/debugger


 Hi All,


 I'm studying the 8085 microprocessor and its assembly language right now 
(Engineering Funda on Youtube with Jubin Mitra's 8085 Sim). It's going fine, 
but I realize that I have an m100 laying around with an actual OKI

 80C85 in it to play with. What I can't remember is, whether or not there's an 
assembler and debugger available for it laying around somewhere? Also, is there 
a book out there on m100 assembly language programming? When I last messed 
around with the system, I was doing BASIC and didn't get into the processor 
much. Now, I'm interested and looking for an assembler - help appreciated.


 Thanks,


 Will




   
  
 

   
  
 

Re: [M100] Failed "," key

[Brian White]

102 has carbon impregnated silicone rubber domes like calculator or remote
buttons.

With care it's possible to lift the top of the key switch body off and lift
out the rubber dome, and see if the contacts or button are dirty. Maybe use
some deoxit with a q-tip to clean the contacts, maybe clean the carbon pad.

I had a stuck T key where everything looked fine but the carbon pad maybe
just looked worn. I swapped the rubber dome with the right-shift key (a key
that I don't use as much, and has a duplicate on the left anyway, and was
much less worn because all the previous owners probably used it less than T
also) and afterwards not only did the T work, the right shift still worked!

To get the keyswitch apart, I don't know how to verbally describe
everything clearly. I made a video

https://youtu.be/n_oyDYRDYzs


bkw

On Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 10:47 PM Ronald Hudson  wrote:

> Hi Everyone--
>
>
> My 102 has a failed "," key - all the other keys seem to work so I am
> guessing it is a bad key or broken trace.
>
> What say ye?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ron.
>
>

Re: [M100] looking for assembler/debugger

[David Plass]

I also like "8080/8085 assembly language subroutines" by Lance Leventhal
https://archive.org/details/80808085assemblyleve/mode/1up

On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 6:32 AM Anthony Coghlan  wrote:

> What a great thread!  :)  Very late to the party but will add a couple of
> books.  Not M100-specific, but if you’re interested in a couple of very
> good general 8085 books, I would recommend these.  The first is a
> self-contained course (probably a quite popular textbook originally), while
> the second is a more compact reference.  I believe I found both in PDF on
> archive.org (Internet Archive).
>
> *  Judi Fernandez and Ruth Ashley, _Introduction to 8080/8085 Assembly
> Language Programming_.
> *  Noel Morris, _Pocket Guide Assembly Language for the 8085_.
>
> I’ll have to check out John’s _Inside the Model 100_ reference.
>
> Best wishes,
> Anthony
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 14, 2024 at 10:01 AM David Plass  wrote:
>
>> I've forked a fork of a fork of a python-based 8085 assembler:
>> https://github.com/dplassgit/8085-Assembler-trs80-100 which generates a
>> BASIC program that you can use to poke your assembly language program into
>> memory.
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2024 at 6:18 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> There are a few assemblers that can be hosted on the M100. For my use I
>>> created an extension for VS Code that supports Telemark Assembler (TASM).
>>> TASM has been around since the 1980s, still maintained by the original
>>> author as of a few years ago.
>>>
>>> You can download the extension from within VS Code or from Github. The
>>> Github repo also has a shareware copy of TASM and some instructions.
>>>
>>> https://github.com/Jeff-Birt/TASM_vsCode_Extension
>>>
>>> Jeff Birt
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: M100  On Behalf Of Will Senn
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2024 3:05 PM
>>> To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
>>> Subject: [M100] looking for assembler/debugger
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I'm studying the 8085 microprocessor and its assembly language right now
>>> (Engineering Funda on Youtube with Jubin Mitra's 8085 Sim). It's going
>>> fine, but I realize that I have an m100 laying around with an actual OKI
>>> 80C85 in it to play with. What I can't remember is, whether or not
>>> there's an assembler and debugger available for it laying around somewhere?
>>> Also, is there a book out there on m100 assembly language programming? When
>>> I last messed around with the system, I was doing BASIC and didn't get into
>>> the processor much. Now, I'm interested and looking for an assembler - help
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Will
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: [M100] Failed "," key

[David Plass]

Using a continuity tester you can test it in-circuit to see if it's the
switch or not. If it's the switch, desolder and replace. If it's not the
switch, it's a trace.

On Sun, Mar 17, 2024 at 10:48 PM Ronald Hudson  wrote:

> Hi Everyone--
>
>
> My 102 has a failed "," key - all the other keys seem to work so I am
> guessing it is a bad key or broken trace.
>
> What say ye?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ron.
>
>

Re: [M100] CP/M and stuff like the LCD screen

[Philip Avery]

Will

As writer of M100 CP/M I can say there currently isn't any user-friendly 
way of calling M100 ROM routines from CP/M. However Steve may have 
discovered a sneaky access in the BIOS with his extensive experience of 
hacking about with the M100.


It's on my to-do list, along with other improvements, so I vow to get on 
to this when our winter arrives, which in New Zealand is June.


Glad you're finding M100 CP/M useful

Philip Avery

On 18/03/2024 6:50 pm, Stephen Adolph wrote:

Will,
The M100 main rom supports CP/M, i suppose that is obvious.
Cpm memory space is totally separate from the M100 memory. Both the 
upper and lower 33k banks are RAM for cpm.  In m100 mode, you have the 
standard main rom in the lower 32k, and different ram in the upper 32k.


To get full control of the m100 in cpm you need to access the main rom 
routines.  Well, you could rewrite all the routines but why when the 
main rom is there.  ;)



As John mentioned since the main rom isn't directly available in cpm 
you need trampoline code to switch it into view so you can call routines.


I'm not near all my info so I can't recall the exact details but 
certainly there is a trampoline included in m100 cpm.



So the trick is to call the trampoline with a pointer to your target 
routine, along with register data to feed the routine.


If I can figure out the trampoline I will send a note.

Steve

On Sunday, March 17, 2024, Will Senn  wrote:

Hi All,

I've been digging into assembly language programming on the M100
and the documentation is fragmented, to say the least and so
progress is stilted a bit. I've made significant progress on the
programming toolchain - CP/M is great for this. It gives a
rational file system, ed, asm, load, ddt, a way to run the app, a
way to display the source, listings, etc. VEDIT is available as a
visual editor, but editing on a host and running on CP/M is
workable and fast. I've also gotten MAC, RMAC, and LINK working
which is nice.

CP/M provides functions that are callable in assembly code and
I've made good progress on how to make CP/M work for simple I/O
and File I/O. But, the M100 has features, like the LCD, the serial
and parallel ports, etc. that make it unique. Is the assembly
language CP/M programmer left on their own to interface with these
devices or are they given access to something akin to BIOS (maybe
the ROM functions) to make it easier?

Say that I want to place a pixel, or draw a line, or whatnot. Does
CP/M have any machine level routines to call, or what? Can I call
the ROM routines from CP/M? I saw some trampoline code on the
wiki, some language saying that it was tricky to do, a pointer to
some old docs, etc. Is that the way forward - call the main rom
from CP/M as described in

https://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=Calling_the_Main_ROM_from_Option_ROM

,
or, is it a matter of programming the ports?

On the one hand, my questions are simple - how do I put a pixel on
the screen at a give location and erase it when I want to? With
minimal fuss. On the other hand, I'm curious about how CP/M and
the M100 coexist and what overlap exists between the two when CP/M
is active.

Thanks,

Will