Re: [M100] Tpdd1 sector access example code?
On 4/21/23 18:15, Brian K. White wrote: ## unk23 is what the old dlplus called "ts-dos mystery command" ## it's unknown what it *really* means, but it's a reliable way to tell the difference between TPDD1 and TPDD2 without locking up the drive by giving an invalid command to the wrong drive. ## when you issue a certain request, the real drive gives back this response, and it's always the same response for all TPDD1 drives. ## so if you issue the request and get the expected response, the drive is a TPDD1, otherwise it's a TPDD2, and in either case it doesn't lock up the drive. another correction, right idea just backwards tpdd1 vs tpdd2 # TS-DOS mystery TPDD2 detection - some versions of TS-DOS send this # TPDD2 gives this response. TPDD1 does not respond. # request: 5A 5A 23 00 DC # return : 14 0F 41 10 01 00 50 05 00 02 00 28 00 E1 00 00 00 2A There is also a similar 0x11 command where like 0x23, TPDD2 responds with something and TPDD1 does not respond (but also does not get freaked out and lock up) Client sends 0x11 (0x5A 0x5A 0x11 0x00 0x##) ## = checksum TPDD2 responds: 3A 06 80 13 05 00 10 E1 36 TPDD1 does not respond and 0x33 is apparently a synonym for 0x11 if the client sends an 0x33 request, TPDD2 responds the same way as for 0x11 No version of TS-DOS uses 0x11 or 0x33 that I have found, I found it by just feeding all possible commands to a drive to see what it did. Not all versions of TS-DOS use 0x23 either. I don't know if all tpdd2 drives respond with the same value like they do for 0x23 dlplus emulates all of these, which tell TS-DOS it can use some TPDD2-only commands or can be told specifically *not* to, to more accurately emulate a TPDD1, which allows some TPDD1-only client software to work that would otherwise get screwed up by unexpected responses because the client software was from before TPDD2 or desklink existed. -- bkw
Re: [M100] Tpdd1 sector access example code?
On 4/21/23 18:15, Brian K. White wrote: ## The Sardine dictionary disk uses 128byte sectors correction, must be 256, given the actual transaction shown -- bkw
Re: [M100] Tpdd1 sector access example code?
Ok here is a break down of a transaction to read a single logical sector. It's pdd.sh with debug level 4, interspersed with explanations Below, to cut through everything, all the actual serial port traffic is just the tpdd_read() and tpdd_write() commands. Everything else is just the stuff to arrive at what to send or how to interpret what you received. But every byte that is sent to the drive is sent by tpdd_write(bytes) And every byte that is read from the drive is read by tpdd_read(# of bytes) tpdd_write(5A 5A 08 00 F7) means to send exactly and only those 5 bytes 0x5A 0x5A 0x08 0x00 0xF7 tpdd_read(2) means to read exactly 2 bytes --- ## launch with DEBUG=4 via environment variable so that it's already in effect even before the script gets a chance to parse the command line bkw@fw:~$ DEBUG=4 pdd ## figure out the tty and set up the serial port settings get_tpdd_port() Using port "/dev/ttyUSB0" open_com() set_stty() speed 19200 baud; rows 0; columns 0; line = 0; intr = ^C; quit = ^\; erase = ^?; kill = ^U; eof = ^D; eol = ; eol2 = ; swtch = ; start = ^Q; stop = ^S; susp = ^Z; rprnt = ^R; werase = ^W; lnext = ^V; discard = ^O; min = 1; time = 1; -parenb -parodd -cmspar cs8 hupcl -cstopb cread clocal crtscts -ignbrk -brkint -ignpar -parmrk -inpck -istrip -inlcr -igncr -icrnl -ixon -ixoff -iuclc -ixany -imaxbel -iutf8 -opost -olcuc -ocrnl onlcr -onocr -onlret -ofill -ofdel nl0 cr0 tab0 bs0 vt0 ff0 -isig -icanon iexten -echo echoe echok -echonl -noflsh -xcase -tostop -echoprt echoctl echoke -flusho -extproc ## running just "pdd" with no commandline args tells the script to present a prompt for interactive commands ## This prompt shows the state of the client, what mode the client is in and what it thinks the drive is in ## opr = TPDD1 in "operation mode" ## 6.2 = write and expect 6.2 filenames on the drive filename (Floppy/TS-DOS compatible) ## F = write and expect "F" for the attribute byte on the drive filename (Floppy/TS-DOS compatible) ## ## The command "rl 2 5" means: ## read logical - read a single logical sector ## physical sector 2 (counts from 0 to 79) ## logical sector 5 (counts from 1 to 1, up to 1 to 20, depending on the logical sector size, which is determined when the disk is formatted) ## The Sardine dictionary disk uses 128byte sectors, so for that disk, the valid values for logical sector are 1-10 ## ## The script does some stuff automatically to put the drive into the necessary mode for the requested command, so although the command above is read-logical 2,5, it will do a bunch of other stuff first now PDD(opr:6.2,F)> rl 2 5 do_cmd(rl 2 5) _init() ## fonzie_smack is what I named a sort of joggle routine similar to what TS-DOS does on start-up. ## you basically never know what state the drive is in, yet, you always need to know that, and there is no really good way to query the drive "what state are you in?" nor is there a really good way to tell the drive "Whatever state you're in right now, reset and go into state foo" ## The closest is this A>B>A cycle that TS-DOS does where it blindly tells the drive to go to OPR mode, then to FDC mode, then back to OPR mode. Assuming the drive isn't locked up or in the middle of some transaction, then this usually leaves the drive in OPR mode. fonzie_smack() tpdd_drain() tpdd_check() tpdd_write(4D 31 0D) tpdd_drain() tpdd_check() tpdd_write(5A 5A 08 00 F7) tpdd_drain() tpdd_check() tpdd_write(4D 31 0D) tpdd_drain() tpdd_check() ## unk23 is what the old dlplus called "ts-dos mystery command" ## it's unknown what it *really* means, but it's a reliable way to tell the difference between TPDD1 and TPDD2 without locking up the drive by giving an invalid command to the wrong drive. ## when you issue a certain request, the real drive gives back this response, and it's always the same response for all TPDD1 drives. ## so if you issue the request and get the expected response, the drive is a TPDD1, otherwise it's a TPDD2, and in either case it doesn't lock up the drive. ocmd_pdd2_unk23() ocmd_send_req(23) calc_cksum(23 00):DC ocmd_send_req: fmt="23" len="00" dat="" chk="DC" tpdd_write(5A 5A 23 00 DC) ocmd_read_ret() ocmd_read_ret: reading 2 bytes (fmt len) tpdd_read(2) tpdd_wait() tpdd_check() tpdd_check() Detected TPDD1 ## Now we've ensured the drive is in a known state and detected the type of drive, so we know we have a TPDD1 and it;s in OPR mode ready for a TPDD1 OPR command. ## start the read-logical command fcmd_read_logical(2 5) ## firs step, since read-logical is an FDC command, switch the drive to FDC mode ocmd_fdc() ## the command for FDC mode is 0x08 ocmd_send_req(08) ## the oxo8 command has no payload, so, payload length 0 ## calculate the checksum for two bytes: 0x08 0x00 calc_cksum(08 00):F7 ## assemble the tpdd packet from preamble to checksum and send it ## preamble is the same for all packats: 0x5A 0x5A (aka "ZZ")
Re: [M100] Tpdd1 sector access example code?
April 21, 2023 at 1:25 PM, "Stephen Adolph" wrote: > > I can't find a python source, only a python executable. Is there a link to > the python source? Thanks! > You may mean that you can only find the .deb package, which is a binary installable package for Debian. I reassembled the contents of the .deb into a tarball and put them herein my S3 bucket, back when Kurt released it: http://public.nachomountain.com/files/m100/mComm-repackaged.tar.gz That may make it easier for you to view the scripts.
Re: [M100] Tpdd1 sector access example code?
Actually I figured it out. .Deb is an archive. I have the python code now. Cheers. On Friday, April 21, 2023, Kurt McCullum wrote: > I'll send it your way when I get home tonight. It's in the Python code too > so if you need it right away you can download that one. It's just the > responses to read requests, but it will give you the general idea. > > Kurt > > On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, at 11:18 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > > Thanks for the offer Kurt. > I'm specifically after TPDD1 stuff, so that might mean mcomm sardine code? > > I could also just start writing code to see what works. > > ..steve > > On Friday, April 21, 2023, Kurt McCullum wrote: > > > Steve, > > The Sardine code in mComm has code for responding to the TPDD1 sectors. I > also have some old C# code for a TPDD client that I used to make copies of > some disks. At the time I wrote it I only had a TPDD2 (now sold) so it > probably isn't what you are looking for, but I could send it your way. > > Kurt > > On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, at 6:50 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > > Hi, > Does anyone know of an example of tpdd1 sector access code? > Thw software manual is ok but actual working code is better. > > Thanks > Steve > > > >
Re: [M100] Tpdd1 sector access example code?
The one in the members file area is a Debian Linux install. I can send the individual files later today if that would be easier. Kurt On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, at 1:25 PM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > I can't find a python source, only a python executable. Is there a link to > the python source? Thanks! > > On Friday, April 21, 2023, Kurt McCullum wrote: >> __ >> I'll send it your way when I get home tonight. It's in the Python code too >> so if you need it right away you can download that one. It's just the >> responses to read requests, but it will give you the general idea. >> >> Kurt >> >> On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, at 11:18 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote: >>> Thanks for the offer Kurt. >>> I'm specifically after TPDD1 stuff, so that might mean mcomm sardine code? >>> >>> I could also just start writing code to see what works. >>> >>> ..steve >>> >>> On Friday, April 21, 2023, Kurt McCullum wrote: __ Steve, The Sardine code in mComm has code for responding to the TPDD1 sectors. I also have some old C# code for a TPDD client that I used to make copies of some disks. At the time I wrote it I only had a TPDD2 (now sold) so it probably isn't what you are looking for, but I could send it your way. Kurt On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, at 6:50 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > Hi, > Does anyone know of an example of tpdd1 sector access code? > Thw software manual is ok but actual working code is better. > > Thanks > Steve >>
Re: [M100] Tpdd1 sector access example code?
Python is a script language... Programs only exist as source code. -- John.
Re: [M100] Tpdd1 sector access example code?
I can't find a python source, only a python executable. Is there a link to the python source? Thanks! On Friday, April 21, 2023, Kurt McCullum wrote: > I'll send it your way when I get home tonight. It's in the Python code too > so if you need it right away you can download that one. It's just the > responses to read requests, but it will give you the general idea. > > Kurt > > On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, at 11:18 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > > Thanks for the offer Kurt. > I'm specifically after TPDD1 stuff, so that might mean mcomm sardine code? > > I could also just start writing code to see what works. > > ..steve > > On Friday, April 21, 2023, Kurt McCullum wrote: > > > Steve, > > The Sardine code in mComm has code for responding to the TPDD1 sectors. I > also have some old C# code for a TPDD client that I used to make copies of > some disks. At the time I wrote it I only had a TPDD2 (now sold) so it > probably isn't what you are looking for, but I could send it your way. > > Kurt > > On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, at 6:50 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > > Hi, > Does anyone know of an example of tpdd1 sector access code? > Thw software manual is ok but actual working code is better. > > Thanks > Steve > > > >
Re: [M100] Tpdd1 sector access example code?
Thanks for the reminder and info Brian, I had forgotten that you had done this. I can take a look, thanks. Steve On Friday, April 21, 2023, Brian K. White wrote: > On 4/21/23 09:50, Stephen Adolph wrote: > >> Hi, >> Does anyone know of an example of tpdd1 sector access code? >> Thw software manual is ok but actual working code is better. >> >> Thanks >> Steve >> > > The software manual actually lays it all out. > > pdd.sh does client-side sector access for both tpdd1 and 2 > https://github.com/bkw777/pdd.sh > > dlplus does server-side sector access for both tpdd1 and 2 > https://github.com/bkw777/dlplus > > The bash code in pdd.sh is probably hard to read, so I am willing to > explain it in some other posts or off-list. > > Or better yet, write up stuff in the discussions or wiki feature on github. > like > https://github.com/bkw777/dlplus/wiki > or > https://github.com/bkw777/dlplus/discussions > That way the documentation that gets written up is still there for others > later. > > enabling debug to higher levels essentially prints the bytes that go over > the wire so you could then figure out your own way to do the same thing. > But some of it is timing dependant and some of it involves rules where just > looking a the traffic doesn't necessarily show what makes some things valid > vs invalid. > > The real drive is a strict and crude state machine with practically no > give or self-recovery. Once you do almost anything unexpected or illegal, > it generally just locks up and the only fix is to power-cycle the drive, so > it means that writing a reliable client involves being super careful to > never go outside the lines in the first place, since there's no sort of > reset or retrain command you can send from the client in a lot of cases. > > I'll send a separate post with an example and explaination of the sequence > of a transaction. > > -- > bkw > >
Re: [M100] Tpdd1 sector access example code?
Thank you. The python is probably good. I'll take a look! On Friday, April 21, 2023, Kurt McCullum wrote: > I'll send it your way when I get home tonight. It's in the Python code too > so if you need it right away you can download that one. It's just the > responses to read requests, but it will give you the general idea. > > Kurt > > On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, at 11:18 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > > Thanks for the offer Kurt. > I'm specifically after TPDD1 stuff, so that might mean mcomm sardine code? > > I could also just start writing code to see what works. > > ..steve > > On Friday, April 21, 2023, Kurt McCullum wrote: > > > Steve, > > The Sardine code in mComm has code for responding to the TPDD1 sectors. I > also have some old C# code for a TPDD client that I used to make copies of > some disks. At the time I wrote it I only had a TPDD2 (now sold) so it > probably isn't what you are looking for, but I could send it your way. > > Kurt > > On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, at 6:50 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > > Hi, > Does anyone know of an example of tpdd1 sector access code? > Thw software manual is ok but actual working code is better. > > Thanks > Steve > > > >
Re: [M100] Tpdd1 sector access example code?
On 4/21/23 09:50, Stephen Adolph wrote: Hi, Does anyone know of an example of tpdd1 sector access code? Thw software manual is ok but actual working code is better. Thanks Steve The software manual actually lays it all out. pdd.sh does client-side sector access for both tpdd1 and 2 https://github.com/bkw777/pdd.sh dlplus does server-side sector access for both tpdd1 and 2 https://github.com/bkw777/dlplus The bash code in pdd.sh is probably hard to read, so I am willing to explain it in some other posts or off-list. Or better yet, write up stuff in the discussions or wiki feature on github. like https://github.com/bkw777/dlplus/wiki or https://github.com/bkw777/dlplus/discussions That way the documentation that gets written up is still there for others later. enabling debug to higher levels essentially prints the bytes that go over the wire so you could then figure out your own way to do the same thing. But some of it is timing dependant and some of it involves rules where just looking a the traffic doesn't necessarily show what makes some things valid vs invalid. The real drive is a strict and crude state machine with practically no give or self-recovery. Once you do almost anything unexpected or illegal, it generally just locks up and the only fix is to power-cycle the drive, so it means that writing a reliable client involves being super careful to never go outside the lines in the first place, since there's no sort of reset or retrain command you can send from the client in a lot of cases. I'll send a separate post with an example and explaination of the sequence of a transaction. -- bkw
Re: [M100] Tpdd1 sector access example code?
I'll send it your way when I get home tonight. It's in the Python code too so if you need it right away you can download that one. It's just the responses to read requests, but it will give you the general idea. Kurt On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, at 11:18 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > Thanks for the offer Kurt. > I'm specifically after TPDD1 stuff, so that might mean mcomm sardine code? > > I could also just start writing code to see what works. > > ..steve > > On Friday, April 21, 2023, Kurt McCullum wrote: >> __ >> Steve, >> >> The Sardine code in mComm has code for responding to the TPDD1 sectors. I >> also have some old C# code for a TPDD client that I used to make copies of >> some disks. At the time I wrote it I only had a TPDD2 (now sold) so it >> probably isn't what you are looking for, but I could send it your way. >> >> Kurt >> >> On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, at 6:50 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote: >>> Hi, >>> Does anyone know of an example of tpdd1 sector access code? >>> Thw software manual is ok but actual working code is better. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Steve >>
Re: [M100] Tpdd1 sector access example code?
Thanks for the offer Kurt. I'm specifically after TPDD1 stuff, so that might mean mcomm sardine code? I could also just start writing code to see what works. ..steve On Friday, April 21, 2023, Kurt McCullum wrote: > Steve, > > The Sardine code in mComm has code for responding to the TPDD1 sectors. I > also have some old C# code for a TPDD client that I used to make copies of > some disks. At the time I wrote it I only had a TPDD2 (now sold) so it > probably isn't what you are looking for, but I could send it your way. > > Kurt > > On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, at 6:50 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > > Hi, > Does anyone know of an example of tpdd1 sector access code? > Thw software manual is ok but actual working code is better. > > Thanks > Steve > > >
Re: [M100] Tpdd1 sector access example code?
Steve, The Sardine code in mComm has code for responding to the TPDD1 sectors. I also have some old C# code for a TPDD client that I used to make copies of some disks. At the time I wrote it I only had a TPDD2 (now sold) so it probably isn't what you are looking for, but I could send it your way. Kurt On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, at 6:50 AM, Stephen Adolph wrote: > Hi, > Does anyone know of an example of tpdd1 sector access code? > Thw software manual is ok but actual working code is better. > > Thanks > Steve
[M100] Tpdd1 sector access example code?
Hi, Does anyone know of an example of tpdd1 sector access code? Thw software manual is ok but actual working code is better. Thanks Steve
