Re: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?

2016-11-01 Thread eddie edwards 
Kinda sounds like a re-imagining of the booster pak. Wasn't that thing capable 
of holding huge single files that a m100 alone could not?


From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of Mike Stein 
<mhs.st...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 5:38:32 PM
To: Model 100 Discussion
Subject: Re: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?

No fundamental reason, other than the mechanical aspects of connecting  without 
risking damage (especially to the M100), and the additional hardware to decode 
and safely interface to the 'heart' of the machine.

On the other hand it's fairly trivial to share the serial port (unless of 
course your application requires true simultaneous access); what have you got 
in mind?

And of course no matter how you physically connect, anything dangling off the 
back of the ModelT probably interferes with its portability and maybe even 
battery life, its main selling points.

m

- Original Message -
From: Alex ...<mailto:abortretryf...@gmail.com>
To: Model 100 Discussion<mailto:m100@lists.bitchin100.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?


Is there any reason not to use the system bus for expansions/addons like this? 
One thing I've noticed in using my M102 is that its lone serial port, while 
simple and effective, seems very overworked.

On Nov 1, 2016 11:21, "Mike Stein" 
<mhs.st...@gmail.com<mailto:mhs.st...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Regarding the WiFi modem, there's no need to build anything; one of the 
advantages of the M100 over the C64 is that the M100 has a standard RS-232 port 
capable of speeds >38Kbps and RS232 WiFi modems are available off the shelf; as 
mentioned, you can also use an Android phone or a Pi as a 'modem';

One way or another the Model Ts have always had Internet connectivity, but the 
real issue has always been what to do with it; browsing the web or even email 
gets stale pretty quickly with the small screens. Of course you can run it in 
80x24 mode on an external display but now you've got that extra hardware and 
you're still pretty limited in what you can actually do.

m
- Original Message -
From: _ Comet<mailto:co...@yahoo.com>
To: Model 100 Discussion<mailto:m100@lists.bitchin100.com>
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?

Yes, you can build a similar device for the m100.
For relocatable code, you can use a fixed-in-memory small routine to trampoline 
relatively to the caller's program counter.
For a faster display, disable screen scrolling and there is a program for this 
in the library.  Note that the screen refresh is not all bad if you are 
starting from a blank screen, as it will go faster than you can read.   :-D


Comet



From: Jim Williams <hira...@hotmail.com<mailto:hira...@hotmail.com>>
To: "m100@lists.bitchin100.com<mailto:m100@lists.bitchin100.com>" 
<m100@lists.bitchin100.com<mailto:m100@lists.bitchin100.com>>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 12:24 PM
Subject: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?

I came across this video on Youtube of a wifi modem for the Commodore 64, that 
was able to load software directly from the internet.
C64 WiFi Modem<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeuQVKRsObk>

Watching that and related videos, I came across this site...
Retro Innovations<http://www.go4retro.com/>

The Store for that site has all kinds of hardware projects.
Is it that much more expensive to develop such projects for the M100 as the 
latter site has for the C64? Is it that the user base is so much smaller? Or is 
there something inherently inferior in the M100's design that doesn't allow for 
it? I've been busy with other things, but iirc, the M100 does have an expansion 
port, yes? Which can directly access the M100's memory?

I'm rehashing topics I've discussed before, but among them is some kind of MMU 
for the M100 so it could have relocatable code (again, iirc, the 8085 doesn't 
even have relative addressing?) .

The things that frustrate my ambitions with the M100 most are the memory 
restrictions and the slow refresh on the display. I want to be able to work 
with documents larger than 32k; I could live with the slow refresh if I could 
do that.

Anyway, I was just hoping, with those links, to inspire some hardware types 
into thinking "why not?"

Re: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?

2016-11-01 Thread Mike Stein 
No fundamental reason, other than the mechanical aspects of connecting  without 
risking damage (especially to the M100), and the additional hardware to decode 
and safely interface to the 'heart' of the machine.

On the other hand it's fairly trivial to share the serial port (unless of 
course your application requires true simultaneous access); what have you got 
in mind?

And of course no matter how you physically connect, anything dangling off the 
back of the ModelT probably interferes with its portability and maybe even 
battery life, its main selling points.

m

  - Original Message - 
  From: Alex ... 
  To: Model 100 Discussion 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 11:27 AM
  Subject: Re: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?


  Is there any reason not to use the system bus for expansions/addons like 
this? One thing I've noticed in using my M102 is that its lone serial port, 
while simple and effective, seems very overworked. 



  On Nov 1, 2016 11:21, "Mike Stein" <mhs.st...@gmail.com> wrote:

Regarding the WiFi modem, there's no need to build anything; one of the 
advantages of the M100 over the C64 is that the M100 has a standard RS-232 port 
capable of speeds >38Kbps and RS232 WiFi modems are available off the shelf; as 
mentioned, you can also use an Android phone or a Pi as a 'modem'; 

One way or another the Model Ts have always had Internet connectivity, but 
the real issue has always been what to do with it; browsing the web or even 
email gets stale pretty quickly with the small screens. Of course you can run 
it in 80x24 mode on an external display but now you've got that extra hardware 
and you're still pretty limited in what you can actually do.

m
  - Original Message - 
  From: _ Comet 
  To: Model 100 Discussion 
  Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 9:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?


  Yes, you can build a similar device for the m100.
  For relocatable code, you can use a fixed-in-memory small routine to 
trampoline relatively to the caller's program counter.
  For a faster display, disable screen scrolling and there is a program for 
this in the library.  Note that the screen refresh is not all bad if you are 
starting from a blank screen, as it will go faster than you can read.   :-D

   
  Comet




--
  From: Jim Williams <hira...@hotmail.com>
  To: "m100@lists.bitchin100.com" <m100@lists.bitchin100.com> 
  Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 12:24 PM
  Subject: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?



  I came across this video on Youtube of a wifi modem for the Commodore 64, 
that was able to load software directly from the internet.
  C64 WiFi Modem

  Watching that and related videos, I came across this site...
  Retro Innovations

  The Store for that site has all kinds of hardware projects.
  Is it that much more expensive to develop such projects for the M100 as 
the latter site has for the C64? Is it that the user base is so much smaller? 
Or is there something inherently inferior in the M100's design that doesn't 
allow for it? I've been busy with other things, but iirc, the M100 does have an 
expansion port, yes? Which can directly access the M100's memory?

  I'm rehashing topics I've discussed before, but among them is some kind 
of MMU for the M100 so it could have relocatable code (again, iirc, the 8085 
doesn't even have relative addressing?) .

  The things that frustrate my ambitions with the M100 most are the memory 
restrictions and the slow refresh on the display. I want to be able to work 
with documents larger than 32k; I could live with the slow refresh if I could 
do that.

  Anyway, I was just hoping, with those links, to inspire some hardware 
types into thinking "why not?"

Re: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?

2016-11-01 Thread Alex ... 
Is there any reason not to use the system bus for expansions/addons like
this? One thing I've noticed in using my M102 is that its lone serial port,
while simple and effective, seems very overworked.

On Nov 1, 2016 11:21, "Mike Stein" <mhs.st...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Regarding the WiFi modem, there's no need to build anything; one of the
> advantages of the M100 over the C64 is that the M100 has a standard RS-232
> port capable of speeds >38Kbps and RS232 WiFi modems are available off the
> shelf; as mentioned, you can also use an Android phone or a Pi as a
> 'modem';
>
> One way or another the Model Ts have always had Internet connectivity, but
> the real issue has always been what to do with it; browsing the web or even
> email gets stale pretty quickly with the small screens. Of course you can
> run it in 80x24 mode on an external display but now you've got that extra
> hardware and you're still pretty limited in what you can actually do.
>
> m
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* _ Comet <co...@yahoo.com>
> *To:* Model 100 Discussion <m100@lists.bitchin100.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2016 9:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?
>
> Yes, you can build a similar device for the m100.
> For relocatable code, you can use a fixed-in-memory small routine to
> trampoline relatively to the caller's program counter.
> For a faster display, disable screen scrolling and there is a program for
> this in the library.  Note that the screen refresh is not all bad if you
> are starting from a blank screen, as it will go faster than you can read.
> :-D
>
> 
> Comet
>
>
> --
> *From:* Jim Williams <hira...@hotmail.com>
> *To:* "m100@lists.bitchin100.com" <m100@lists.bitchin100.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 30, 2016 12:24 PM
> *Subject:* [M100] Doing what the C= can do?
>
> I came across this video on Youtube of a wifi modem for the Commodore 64,
> that was able to load software directly from the internet.
> C64 WiFi Modem <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeuQVKRsObk>
>
> Watching that and related videos, I came across this site...
> Retro Innovations <http://www.go4retro.com/>
>
> The Store for that site has all kinds of hardware projects.
> Is it that much more expensive to develop such projects for the M100 as
> the latter site has for the C64? Is it that the user base is so much
> smaller? Or is there something inherently inferior in the M100's design
> that doesn't allow for it? I've been busy with other things, but iirc, the
> M100 does have an expansion port, yes? Which can directly access the M100's
> memory?
>
> I'm rehashing topics I've discussed before, but among them is some kind of
> MMU for the M100 so it could have relocatable code (again, iirc, the 8085
> doesn't even have relative addressing?) .
>
> The things that frustrate my ambitions with the M100 most are the memory
> restrictions and the slow refresh on the display. I want to be able to work
> with documents larger than 32k; I could live with the slow refresh if I
> could do that.
>
> Anyway, I was just hoping, with those links, to inspire some hardware
> types into thinking "why not?"
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?

2016-11-01 Thread Mike Stein 
Regarding the WiFi modem, there's no need to build anything; one of the 
advantages of the M100 over the C64 is that the M100 has a standard RS-232 port 
capable of speeds >38Kbps and RS232 WiFi modems are available off the shelf; as 
mentioned, you can also use an Android phone or a Pi as a 'modem'; 

One way or another the Model Ts have always had Internet connectivity, but the 
real issue has always been what to do with it; browsing the web or even email 
gets stale pretty quickly with the small screens. Of course you can run it in 
80x24 mode on an external display but now you've got that extra hardware and 
you're still pretty limited in what you can actually do.

m
  - Original Message - 
  From: _ Comet 
  To: Model 100 Discussion 
  Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 9:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?


  Yes, you can build a similar device for the m100.
  For relocatable code, you can use a fixed-in-memory small routine to 
trampoline relatively to the caller's program counter.
  For a faster display, disable screen scrolling and there is a program for 
this in the library.  Note that the screen refresh is not all bad if you are 
starting from a blank screen, as it will go faster than you can read.   :-D

   
  Comet




--
  From: Jim Williams <hira...@hotmail.com>
  To: "m100@lists.bitchin100.com" <m100@lists.bitchin100.com> 
  Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 12:24 PM
  Subject: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?



  I came across this video on Youtube of a wifi modem for the Commodore 64, 
that was able to load software directly from the internet.
  C64 WiFi Modem

  Watching that and related videos, I came across this site...
  Retro Innovations

  The Store for that site has all kinds of hardware projects.
  Is it that much more expensive to develop such projects for the M100 as the 
latter site has for the C64? Is it that the user base is so much smaller? Or is 
there something inherently inferior in the M100's design that doesn't allow for 
it? I've been busy with other things, but iirc, the M100 does have an expansion 
port, yes? Which can directly access the M100's memory?

  I'm rehashing topics I've discussed before, but among them is some kind of 
MMU for the M100 so it could have relocatable code (again, iirc, the 8085 
doesn't even have relative addressing?) .

  The things that frustrate my ambitions with the M100 most are the memory 
restrictions and the slow refresh on the display. I want to be able to work 
with documents larger than 32k; I could live with the slow refresh if I could 
do that.

  Anyway, I was just hoping, with those links, to inspire some hardware types 
into thinking "why not?"

Re: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?

2016-10-31 Thread _ Comet 
Yes, you can build a similar device for the m100.For relocatable code, you can 
use a fixed-in-memory small routine to trampoline relatively to the caller's 
program counter.For a faster display, disable screen scrolling and there is a 
program for this in the library.  Note that the screen refresh is not all bad 
if you are starting from a blank screen, as it will go faster than you can 
read.   :-D  
Comet

  From: Jim Williams 
 To: "m100@lists.bitchin100.com"  
 Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 12:24 PM
 Subject: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?
   
 I came across this video on Youtube of a wifi modem for the Commodore 64, that 
was able to load software directly from the internet.
C64 WiFi Modem

Watching that and related videos, I came across this site...
Retro Innovations

The Store for that site has all kinds of hardware projects.
Is it that much more expensive to develop such projects for the M100 as the 
latter site has for the C64? Is it that the user base is so much smaller? Or is 
there something inherently inferior in the M100's design that doesn't allow for 
it? I've been busy with other things, but iirc, the M100 does have an expansion 
port, yes? Which can directly access the M100's memory?

I'm rehashing topics I've discussed before, but among them is some kind of MMU 
for the M100 so it could have relocatable code (again, iirc, the 8085 doesn't 
even have relative addressing?) .

The things that frustrate my ambitions with the M100 most are the memory 
restrictions and the slow refresh on the display. I want to be able to work 
with documents larger than 32k; I could live with the slow refresh if I could 
do that.

Anyway, I was just hoping, with those links, to inspire some hardware types 
into thinking "why not?"

Re: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?

2016-10-31 Thread James Zeun 
I think you already hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the user
base. The C64 was extremely popular throughout the 80s and early 90s with a
healthy number of fans continuing to use it to this day. While the M100 was
popular it was for a different reason to that of the C64 which had a huge
gaming library.

There's been a wealth of books posted up recently, why not read up on the
M100 hardware and try hacking something together? I'm already planning on a
spot of programming :-)

On 30 Oct 2016 7:24 p.m., "Jim Williams"  wrote:

I came across this video on Youtube of a wifi modem for the Commodore 64,
that was able to load software directly from the internet.
C64 WiFi Modem 

Watching that and related videos, I came across this site...
Retro Innovations 

The Store for that site has all kinds of hardware projects.
Is it that much more expensive to develop such projects for the M100 as the
latter site has for the C64? Is it that the user base is so much smaller?
Or is there something inherently inferior in the M100's design that doesn't
allow for it? I've been busy with other things, but iirc, the M100 does
have an expansion port, yes? Which can directly access the M100's memory?

I'm rehashing topics I've discussed before, but among them is some kind of
MMU for the M100 so it could have relocatable code (again, iirc, the 8085
doesn't even have relative addressing?) .

The things that frustrate my ambitions with the M100 most are the memory
restrictions and the slow refresh on the display. I want to be able to work
with documents larger than 32k; I could live with the slow refresh if I
could do that.

Anyway, I was just hoping, with those links, to inspire some hardware types
into thinking "why not?"

Re: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?

2016-10-30 Thread Mike Stein 
As a matter of fact I see Jim Brain (who's behind Retro Innovations) from time 
to time; he's quite well known in the Commodore (especially 64) world for his 
many very reasonably priced adapters and various add-ons. There are also a 
number of other folks building and selling various gizmos for Commodore 
computers, many of them overseas in Europe and Australia.

Schema, the fellow who designed and built that modem, happens to be a neighbour 
of mine and a fellow board member of the Toronto PET Users Group (TPUG); again, 
there are (and were) other similar devices around but none quite as fancy as 
his.

I think you've explained very well why there are so many more goodies available 
for Commodore computers (again, mainly for the C64). 

Obviously there are many, many more C64s, C128s, Amigas etc. and their users 
out there than there are Model T's, and also proportionately more tinkerers 
designing and building various accessories; I think you can count Model T 
developers on one hand with our own Ken and Steve at the top of the short list, 
whereas there are way more folks building stuff for the C64.

I don't think cost is a big factor with these items except for the occasional 
item that can sell enough for real economies of scale; most items are pretty 
reasonably priced, both in the Commodore world as well as for our beloved Model 
T's.

And yes, although I wouldn't call the Model T inferior, its small memory and 
lack of colour and sound seriously restrict game playing and therefore leaves 
out a lot of folks. It's really a different kind of computer; it does what it 
does extremely well but by its nature has a much smaller user/fan base. Another 
factor is the Model T's portability; you can only have so many gizmos hanging 
out the back before it becomes a desk top, and what's the point of that.

I haven't followed it too closely but I thought it IS possible to work with 
documents larger than 32K, no?

But I think the bottom line is that there just aren't that many people 
interested in, knowledgeable enough or with enough time (and sometimes money) 
to invest in building hardware add-ons or writing new software to expand the 
M100's capabilities; I think we're lucky to have as many such folks (and their 
contributions) as we do.

Besides, we doan' need no steenkin' modem to get on the 'net; we can use our 
Android phones!

m
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jim Williams 
  To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 3:24 PM
  Subject: [M100] Doing what the C= can do?


  I came across this video on Youtube of a wifi modem for the Commodore 64, 
that was able to load software directly from the internet.
  C64 WiFi Modem

  Watching that and related videos, I came across this site...
  Retro Innovations

  The Store for that site has all kinds of hardware projects.
  Is it that much more expensive to develop such projects for the M100 as the 
latter site has for the C64? Is it that the user base is so much smaller? Or is 
there something inherently inferior in the M100's design that doesn't allow for 
it? I've been busy with other things, but iirc, the M100 does have an expansion 
port, yes? Which can directly access the M100's memory?

  I'm rehashing topics I've discussed before, but among them is some kind of 
MMU for the M100 so it could have relocatable code (again, iirc, the 8085 
doesn't even have relative addressing?) .

  The things that frustrate my ambitions with the M100 most are the memory 
restrictions and the slow refresh on the display. I want to be able to work 
with documents larger than 32k; I could live with the slow refresh if I could 
do that.

  Anyway, I was just hoping, with those links, to inspire some hardware types 
into thinking "why not?"