OT: what happened to my permissions?

[John Horner]

Please forgive the OT nature, but I just know you will be able to help.
I upgraded an old Mac I use as a server from 10.1 to 10.2.
After the upgrade, the webserver Documents folder had all the wrong 
permissions. I had to log in via the terminal and CHMOD various 
things. All is working well now, but not for *new* files.

Every new file I upload has the permissions "-rw-r-" although the 
enclosing folder itself is "drwxr-xr-x". I'm a bit confused about 
this, and the more I read about UMASK the more confused I get.

Short version of question: how do I set the default permissions, 
permanently, recursively, for all new files uploaded to 
/Library/WebServer/Document/ ?

Other questions:
If I do a "rebuild permissions", will it fix this? Will it over-ride 
various folders which are world-writable so I have to go back and 
CHMOD again? Can I run "rebuild permissions" in Terminal or only from 
the GUI?

And finally, if anyone's really annoyed by this being OT, where 
should I go to ask for this kind of help in future?

   "Have You Validated Your Code?"
John Horner(+612 / 02) 9333 2110
Senior Developer, ABC Online  http://www.abc.net.au/

Re: [OT] Text Editor for OSX

[wren argetlahm]

--- "Randal L. Schwartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hell, Emacs is Free.  How long do you have to work
> to write an editor
> better than emacs, making no money doing it? :-)

:-)  It's been a long time since I've tried out emacs,
the discovery of dabbrev-completion makes it sound...
tempting, but I remember back when first introduced to
*nix and was functionally told I must learn either
vi(m) or emacs, that emacs baffled me and I could
never get it to do anything I wanted, whereas
vim--though bizzare--I could at least get to do what I
wanted it to after reading the
documentation--documentation I had available for emacs
at the time was either non-existant or
non-educational.

~wren



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Re: [OT] Text Editor for OSX

[David Jantzen]

It's not just a text editor, but you might try Eclipse with the  
XMLBuddy plugin.

   
http://www.eclipseplugincentral.com/Web_Links+index-req-viewlink-cid 
-91.html

On Oct 4, 2004, at 12:28 AM, wren argetlahm wrote:
(Replying to all the messages in one)
I guess right now I'm mainly looking for a good (to a
certain extent, read: dedicated) XML editor and
haven't yet encountered one for OSX. Aside form the
"standard" text editor features, the two biggest
things I'm looking for are automatic (via keystroke)
closing element tags* and highly extensible syntax
highlighting.
I've been told that jEdit performs excellently at the
latter, but haven't had a chance to test it out yet.
One of the big things I'm looking for is the ability
to use multiple highlighting pragmas in the same file
(i.e. CSS embedded in HTML, JS in HTML, PHP in HTML,
XSLT in XML, HTML in XML (aka XHTML), et cetera).
* And other carpal-tunnel-avoiding/time-saving
mechanisms like block indent/outdent/commenting and
"tab completion" ala emacs' dabbrev-expand
--- "Chris Devers" wrote:
Yes, that's what the world needs: Yet Another Text
Editor.
But of course :-)
I can think of two reasons why it would make any
sense to take on the
task of writing Yet Another Text Editor:
  1. You want to learn Cocoa programming. That alone
is a good reason.
  2. You have some brilliant new feature in mind
that can't really be
incorporated into existing software as a plugin
I hadn't thought of it as a Cocoa-learning exercise,
though it would definitely be that. jEdit may break
the mold, but historically speaking all the text
editors I've used suffer from the limitation that they
can only really handle one set of syntax for the whole
file, and tend to fall apart with these "mixed"
content files; sometimes they'll be able to handle it
to some extent, but by and large it comes across as
kludgeish (e.g. defining CSS/JS/PHP as part of the
HTML syntax). While not the end of the world, "it
would be nice..." And, I mean I could use vim, it has
pretty good highlighting abilities, but it'd be nice
to get something good and Mac-ish. If after trying
jEdit I do decide to go ahead with the project I think
this may be The Big Feature to make it a worthwhile
editor: a way of having the file actually be
interpreted in different languages as appropriate. Not
just for highlighting but also for validation,
spellchecking (e.g. only check the text nodes on a
webpage rather than calling the tags misspellings),
tag/quote/curly-brace/parens/... closing, doing block
commenting with the right comment-symbols.
I don't know if that'd count as "brilliant". It would
save a lot of time/energy to build on top of another
editor, and that would reduce the overall number of
editors out there, but I'd find it difficult to do the
sorts of things I'm thinking as a module since it
alters the underlying way text is handled.
--- "Doug McNutt" wrote:
I'm not so sure about the OT designation.
Since Perl is what I know, and Perl is really good
with text I've been debating possible Perl-oriented
approaches. But I'm wondering why you're not so sure
about the OT designation?
It is likely that you could find support for your
effort on the MPW
mailing list <
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/mpw-dev >
especially if you are interested in making the
editor a real shell
while you're at it.
Depending on what all this "real shell" entails, I may
very well be interested. Ideally the end product would
have good integration with commandline programs (such
as `wc` and others I can't think of off the top of my
head, ability to run scripts/programs and direct
output to a window, etc). I've never messed with MPW,
mind, so who knows if what I'm hoping for would bear
much resemblance to it.
--- "Joel Rees" wrote:
I'm a little lazy right now. Was SubEthaEdit
originally on open source
project?
(And did Wren notice BareBone's TextWrangler and
decide that didn't go
far enough?)
I don't know if SEE was ever open source. For some
reason I'm thinking not, though I don't know where
that's coming from. If it is/was F/OSS I would be
interested in borrowing the network editing stuff (if
feasible) since that is what everybody cites it for. I
find the idea nifty even though I've never used it
myself and don't know if I ever will; but the overall
lack of preferences/customizability of SEE is one of
the big things turning me off of it right now.
I looked at TextWrangler a looong time back. I don't
remember much of anything about it. Of course one of
the things keeping me away from BBEdit is the cost, is
BBTW substantially cheaper or better yet F/OSS?
One thought -- Wren, if you're going to go so far as
to write YATE,
I'd suggest your internal character encoding be a
thirty-two bit
encoding that uses the full thirty-two bits to allow
you to keep track
of input encoding on a character-by-character basis.
While Unicode
support is a must, I would not use it as an internal
encoding because
of the round-trip problems.
The idea intrigues me, 

Re: [OT] Text Editor for OSX

[Chris Devers]

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, wren argetlahm wrote:
And, I mean I could use vim, it has pretty good highlighting 
abilities, but it'd be nice to get something good and Mac-ish.
Maybe I should have clarified that Emacs and Vim came, unbidden, to 
mind, because both of them already have nice GUI Mac versions.

I happen to prefer Vim, and use that as my main editor in most cases, 
but a case could be made that Emacs is already pretty "Mac-ish", in that 
a lot of Cocoa applications support Emacs keybindings to begin with. Try 
it out in, say, a text box in Safari: ^a jumps to the start of a line, 
^e jumps to the end, ^d deletes the character to the right, ^h deletes 
the character to the left, etc. As I understand it, anything written 
using the Cocoa libraries gets this for free, and it will be immediately 
familiar to anyone that knows Emacs (or readline, bash, pine, etc).

Plus, if you come up with useful extensions to these editors, they will 
be useful to people on other operating systems, so you automatically get 
a larger pool of people who can take your ideas, run with them, and send 
any improvements they can come up with back to you.

As for whether Vim or Emacs can handle different regions of a file in 
different ways, I've never looked for that feature, but there may be 
discussion of it in the vim-users list, or [insert Emacs equivalent 
mailing list here], or other documentation for those editors. If the 
functionality doesn't exist, I'm sure it's something that would be 
useful to lots of people...

--
Chris Devers

Re: [OT] Text Editor for OSX

[Randal L. Schwartz]

> "Ken" == Ken Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Ken> But if you want to write one because you think you'll save money:
Ken> suppose you earn about $40/hour.  BBEdit upgrade costs about 60 bucks.
Ken> Do you think it'll require more than one and a half hours of your time
Ken> to write something better for your needs than BBEdit?

Hell, Emacs is Free.  How long do you have to work to write an editor
better than emacs, making no money doing it? :-)

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

Re: [OT] Text Editor for OSX

[Pete Prodoehl]

Ken Williams wrote:
On Oct 3, 2004, at 9:46 AM, wren argetlahm wrote:

(SubEthaEdit since my copy of BBEdit is Classic and a
new one costs way to much for my budget). 

If you want to write one because you think it'll be fun, okay.
But if you want to write one because you think you'll save money: 
suppose you earn about $40/hour.  BBEdit upgrade costs about 60 bucks.  
Do you think it'll require more than one and a half hours of your time 
to write something better for your needs than BBEdit?

You assume he needs only one copy of BBEdit... Combining the Macs I have 
at home, and the ones I use at work is about 5 machines (not to mention 
the non-Mac computers I use.) I'm assuming I'd need licenses for each 
machine if I went with BBEdit, right? Instead I'm using an open-source 
editor on all machines and not spending $200 on licenses. Don't get me 
wrong, BBEdit is a great editor, but it doesn't fit my needs, which is a 
text editor that I can install on all of my computers, regardless of OS, 
 for a reasonable price.

Pete

Re: [OT] Text Editor for OSX

[Pete Prodoehl]

wren argetlahm wrote:
(Replying to all the messages in one)
I guess right now I'm mainly looking for a good (to a
certain extent, read: dedicated) XML editor and
haven't yet encountered one for OSX. Aside form the
"standard" text editor features, the two biggest
things I'm looking for are automatic (via keystroke)
closing element tags* and highly extensible syntax
highlighting.
I've been told that jEdit performs excellently at the
latter, but haven't had a chance to test it out yet.
One of the big things I'm looking for is the ability
to use multiple highlighting pragmas in the same file
(i.e. CSS embedded in HTML, JS in HTML, PHP in HTML,
XSLT in XML, HTML in XML (aka XHTML), et cetera).
Take the time to look at jEdit then, as it's pretty darn extensive, and 
what it might not do, there is probably a plugin or macro to do...

Pete

Re: [OT] Text Editor for OSX

[wren argetlahm]

--- John Delacour <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 7:46 am -0700 3/10/04, wren argetlahm wrote:
> 
> >  So, in my infinite (lack of) wisdom I've decided
> > that it might be good to write my own.
> 
> Have you considered Alpha? 
> 

I have not, this is the first I've heard of it.
Admittedly I find the wiki a bit difficult to
navigate; what are the strengths of it (or a URl to
such a description)?

~wren



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Re: [OT] Text Editor for OSX

[wren argetlahm]

(Replying to all the messages in one)

I guess right now I'm mainly looking for a good (to a
certain extent, read: dedicated) XML editor and
haven't yet encountered one for OSX. Aside form the
"standard" text editor features, the two biggest
things I'm looking for are automatic (via keystroke)
closing element tags* and highly extensible syntax
highlighting.

I've been told that jEdit performs excellently at the
latter, but haven't had a chance to test it out yet.
One of the big things I'm looking for is the ability
to use multiple highlighting pragmas in the same file
(i.e. CSS embedded in HTML, JS in HTML, PHP in HTML,
XSLT in XML, HTML in XML (aka XHTML), et cetera).

* And other carpal-tunnel-avoiding/time-saving
mechanisms like block indent/outdent/commenting and
"tab completion" ala emacs' dabbrev-expand

--- "Chris Devers" wrote:
> Yes, that's what the world needs: Yet Another Text
Editor. 

But of course :-)

> I can think of two reasons why it would make any
sense to take on the 
> task of writing Yet Another Text Editor:
> 
>   1. You want to learn Cocoa programming. That alone
is a good reason.
> 
>   2. You have some brilliant new feature in mind
that can't really be 
> incorporated into existing software as a plugin 

I hadn't thought of it as a Cocoa-learning exercise,
though it would definitely be that. jEdit may break
the mold, but historically speaking all the text
editors I've used suffer from the limitation that they
can only really handle one set of syntax for the whole
file, and tend to fall apart with these "mixed"
content files; sometimes they'll be able to handle it
to some extent, but by and large it comes across as
kludgeish (e.g. defining CSS/JS/PHP as part of the
HTML syntax). While not the end of the world, "it
would be nice..." And, I mean I could use vim, it has
pretty good highlighting abilities, but it'd be nice
to get something good and Mac-ish. If after trying
jEdit I do decide to go ahead with the project I think
this may be The Big Feature to make it a worthwhile
editor: a way of having the file actually be
interpreted in different languages as appropriate. Not
just for highlighting but also for validation,
spellchecking (e.g. only check the text nodes on a
webpage rather than calling the tags misspellings),
tag/quote/curly-brace/parens/... closing, doing block
commenting with the right comment-symbols.

I don't know if that'd count as "brilliant". It would
save a lot of time/energy to build on top of another
editor, and that would reduce the overall number of
editors out there, but I'd find it difficult to do the
sorts of things I'm thinking as a module since it
alters the underlying way text is handled.

--- "Doug McNutt" wrote:
> I'm not so sure about the OT designation. 

Since Perl is what I know, and Perl is really good
with text I've been debating possible Perl-oriented
approaches. But I'm wondering why you're not so sure
about the OT designation?

> It is likely that you could find support for your
effort on the MPW 
> mailing list <
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/mpw-dev > 
> especially if you are interested in making the
editor a real shell 
> while you're at it. 

Depending on what all this "real shell" entails, I may
very well be interested. Ideally the end product would
have good integration with commandline programs (such
as `wc` and others I can't think of off the top of my
head, ability to run scripts/programs and direct
output to a window, etc). I've never messed with MPW,
mind, so who knows if what I'm hoping for would bear
much resemblance to it.

--- "Joel Rees" wrote:
> I'm a little lazy right now. Was SubEthaEdit
originally on open source
> project?
> 
> (And did Wren notice BareBone's TextWrangler and
decide that didn't go 
> far enough?) 

I don't know if SEE was ever open source. For some
reason I'm thinking not, though I don't know where
that's coming from. If it is/was F/OSS I would be
interested in borrowing the network editing stuff (if
feasible) since that is what everybody cites it for. I
find the idea nifty even though I've never used it
myself and don't know if I ever will; but the overall
lack of preferences/customizability of SEE is one of
the big things turning me off of it right now.

I looked at TextWrangler a looong time back. I don't
remember much of anything about it. Of course one of
the things keeping me away from BBEdit is the cost, is
BBTW substantially cheaper or better yet F/OSS?

> One thought -- Wren, if you're going to go so far as
to write YATE, 
> I'd suggest your internal character encoding be a
thirty-two bit 
> encoding that uses the full thirty-two bits to allow
you to keep track 
> of input encoding on a character-by-character basis.
While Unicode 
> support is a must, I would not use it as an internal
encoding because 
> of the round-trip problems. 

The idea intrigues me, but I think I may be a bit too
naive about character encoding to get precisely what
you mean. What aspect of "input encoding" are you

Re: [OT] Text Editor for OSX

[John Delacour]

At 7:46 am -0700 3/10/04, wren argetlahm wrote:
 So, in my infinite (lack of) wisdom I've decided that it might be 
good to write my own.

Have you considered Alpha?