Re: CPAN modules not included with OS X
On Dec 29, 2005, at 8:06 PM, Joel Rees wrote: Maybe it would help to tell you it ain't that simple? To mention openssl again, it can be installed in a variety of places, and it depends in part on where other things you may have installed might have wanted to put the packages they depend on. That's another reason for using a sandbox. (Using the separate perl also helps me avoid building a sandbox for my personal server, where I don't have resources for doing things the ideal way.) Hi Joel, What's a sandbox? Joe.
Re: CPAN modules not included with OS X
On Dec 29, 2005, at 7:03 PM, James Reynolds wrote: Grumble. That is exactly what I wanted to know! Thanks! Does CPAN install C libraries to /usr/local/lib or somewhere else? I could search for all new files right after a CPAN install. Anything that gets installed during 'make install' (or 'Build install' if you're using Module::Build) will be present in the blib/ directory after a 'make' (or a 'Build'). Precisely where the things from blib/ *go* during the install is a matter of how you've configured things, your system layout, etc. -Ken
Re: CPAN modules not included with OS X
On 2005.12.31, at 02:01 AM, Joseph Alotta wrote: On Dec 29, 2005, at 8:06 PM, Joel Rees wrote: Maybe it would help to tell you it ain't that simple? To mention openssl again, it can be installed in a variety of places, and it depends in part on where other things you may have installed might have wanted to put the packages they depend on. That's another reason for using a sandbox. (Using the separate perl also helps me avoid building a sandbox for my personal server, where I don't have resources for doing things the ideal way.) Hi Joel, What's a sandbox? A place where you can play with impunity. grin / If you start with the live chicken (to recklessly mix metaphors), you replicate your server machine/cluster on the internal net, where only the dev, test, evaluation, etc., crew can access it. This is the sandbox. You fix bugs and add functionality on the sandbox, then when you've tested the sandbox sufficiently, you take a backup of the sandbox for both archival and to use as the base of the next version, and mirror the sandbox back to the live server/cluster. If you start with the egg, you set up the sandbox before you set up anything live on the external network, and the initial server/cluster is basically built by taking a backup of the sandbox and restoring the backup to the hardware that will be the live system. One of the things that having the sandbox helps with is that you can take a diff of the sandbox and the current base system and use the diff to figure out what doesn't need to be copied when mirroring back to the live system. (The diff also helps with security analysis of the new version.) Using jails, virtual servers, separate installs of perl and other components, careful partitioning and the like, you can often put the sandbox on workstations, but only if you are willing to trust the employees whose workstations you use.
Re: CPAN modules not included with OS X
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, James Reynolds wrote: Does anyone know why Apple chooses or not chooses to include modules? I really dislike installing them. And more and more I find I need to. So how would I go about pressuring Apple to include more. No vendor includes a full CPAN library with the stock Perl. Linux, Solaris, etc, they're all doing the same thing. If you install your own copy of Perl, it too will only have a partial standard core fraction of CPAN. Get used to CPAN. You aren't going to find a vendor that provides a full CPAN install -- new ones appear daily, so keeping up is impossible anyway. There has been talk of including fewer CPAN modules with future versions of Perl, to get people into the habit of installing things when previously they might not have wanted to go beyond the core modules. *shrug* -- Chris Devers DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL
Re: CPAN modules not included with OS X
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, James Reynolds wrote: Does anyone know why Apple chooses or not chooses to include modules? I really dislike installing them. And more and more I find I need to. So how would I go about pressuring Apple to include more. No vendor includes a full CPAN library with the stock Perl. Linux, Solaris, etc, they're all doing the same thing. If you install your own copy of Perl, it too will only have a partial standard core fraction of CPAN. Get used to CPAN. You aren't going to find a vendor that provides a full CPAN install -- new ones appear daily, so keeping up is impossible anyway. Hm. I really do not want to install the Dev Tools on my Mac OS X Server boxes. I have been getting around this by installing the files on a client machine and coping them to the servers, but I don't believe this is ideal. Does anyone know what problems I could be causing? James
Re: CPAN modules not included with OS X
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, James Reynolds wrote: : : Hm. I really do not want to install the Dev Tools on my Mac OS X Server : boxes. I have been getting around this by installing the files on a client : machine and coping them to the servers, but I don't believe this is ideal. : Does anyone know what problems I could be causing? How about running CPAN on a sandbox machine and rsync'ing /Library/Perl with the servers? -- Please Do Not Throw Sausage Pizza Away
RE: CPAN modules not included with OS X
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, James Reynolds wrote: On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, James Reynolds wrote: Does anyone know why Apple chooses or not chooses to include modules? I really dislike installing them. And more and more I find I need to. So how would I go about pressuring Apple to include more. No vendor includes a full CPAN library with the stock Perl. Linux, Solaris, etc, they're all doing the same thing. If you install your own copy of Perl, it too will only have a partial standard core fraction of CPAN. Get used to CPAN. You aren't going to find a vendor that provides a full CPAN install -- new ones appear daily, so keeping up is impossible anyway. Hm. I really do not want to install the Dev Tools on my Mac OS X Server boxes. I have been getting around this by installing the files on a client machine and coping them to the servers, but I don't believe this is ideal. Does anyone know what problems I could be causing? I think this should be working fine, and should also gives you the most control over the exact version you are installing. Another option to avoid building modules yourself is to use ActivePerl. It includes the Perl package manager, which allows you to install pre-compiled modules on your system without having to compile them yourself. However, the PPM repository only includes binaries for modules that compiled and ran their regression tests without problems in an automated manner, so not all modules may be available. You can check the compilation status here: http://ppm.activestate.com/BuildStatus/5.8-A.html It is pretty easy to replicate a PPM module set to a different machine: * Install and run the ppmprofile.pl script: ppm install PPM-Profile ppmprofile save * copy the generated profile.xml file to your target machine and run ppm install PPM-Profile ppmprofile restore This installs all the same modules from the PPM repository that had been installed on the original machine. However, if the module version has been updated on the repository, then you will be installing a later version of that module. Cheers, -Jan
Re: CPAN modules not included with OS X
Get used to CPAN. You aren't going to find a vendor that provides a full CPAN install -- new ones appear daily, so keeping up is impossible anyway. Hm. I really do not want to install the Dev Tools on my Mac OS X Server boxes. Why not? I'm not suggesting you install the dev tools, but if your goal is to reduce the profile available to cracking, you should not be wanting a full CPAN install anyway. A full CPAN install would be in many ways like having Dev Tools installed, and in fact would not be very meaningful without the Dev Tools. I have been getting around this by installing the files on a client machine and coping them to the servers, but I don't believe this is ideal. That actually is the ideal, after a manner of speaking. Or it could be. You need a backup and you need a sandbox to test things you want to change before you change them. The installed server should be a mirror of the sandbox, except for the databases. The sandbox can be kept on a hard disk that is kept off-line during normal operations, freeing the machine that actually runs the sandbox to be used as a normal administrator's dev box. Does anyone know what problems I could be causing? Only your hairdresser knows for sure. ;-)
Re: CPAN modules not included with OS X
Many modules link to C libraries that must be installed as well. Simply copying the Perl directory over won't get everything that is needed. On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 13:05, James Reynolds wrote: Does anyone know why Apple chooses or not chooses to include modules? I really dislike installing them. And more and more I find I need to. So how would I go about pressuring Apple to include more. -- Thanks, James Reynolds University of Utah Student Computing Labs [EMAIL PROTECTED] 801-585-9811
Re: CPAN modules not included with OS X
Grumble. That is exactly what I wanted to know! Thanks! Does CPAN install C libraries to /usr/local/lib or somewhere else? I could search for all new files right after a CPAN install. James At 4:58 PM -0800 12/29/05, Danny Hembree wrote: Many modules link to C libraries that must be installed as well. Simply copying the Perl directory over won't get everything that is needed. On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 13:05, James Reynolds wrote: Does anyone know why Apple chooses or not chooses to include modules? I really dislike installing them. And more and more I find I need to. So how would I go about pressuring Apple to include more. -- Thanks, James Reynolds University of Utah Student Computing Labs [EMAIL PROTECTED] 801-585-9811
Re: CPAN modules not included with OS X
Grumble. That is exactly what I wanted to know! Thanks! Does CPAN install C libraries to /usr/local/lib or somewhere else? I could search for all new files right after a CPAN install. James Another point to remember is that some CPAN modules that depend upon C libraries already being install may complain if the compiler flags used to build that C library are different from that used to build the C code associated w/the Perl module you are installing (For example, I'm thinking of the module Net::SSLeay which requires openssl ) Ed At 4:58 PM -0800 12/29/05, Danny Hembree wrote: Many modules link to C libraries that must be installed as well. Simply copying the Perl directory over won't get everything that is needed. On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 13:05, James Reynolds wrote: Does anyone know why Apple chooses or not chooses to include modules? I really dislike installing them. And more and more I find I need to. So how would I go about pressuring Apple to include more. -- Thanks, James Reynolds University of Utah Student Computing Labs [EMAIL PROTECTED] 801-585-9811 -- E. J. Mansky II Eikonal Research Institute Bend, Oregon
Re: CPAN modules not included with OS X
On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 17:03, James Reynolds wrote: Grumble. That is exactly what I wanted to know! Thanks! Does CPAN install C libraries to /usr/local/lib or somewhere else? I could search for all new files right after a CPAN install. James This gets hairy. Due OSX's unique directory layout, it's hard to know where things are. The /sw directory tree is a stab at trying to sort this out. I also use the Darwin ports, yet another directory tree. Then some things, like MySQL, are put in the usual places. You can also have different versions in different trees. I've really found no way around having the developement system on the server. At 4:58 PM -0800 12/29/05, Danny Hembree wrote: Many modules link to C libraries that must be installed as well. Simply copying the Perl directory over won't get everything that is needed. On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 13:05, James Reynolds wrote: Does anyone know why Apple chooses or not chooses to include modules? I really dislike installing them. And more and more I find I need to. So how would I go about pressuring Apple to include more. -- Thanks, James Reynolds University of Utah Student Computing Labs [EMAIL PROTECTED] 801-585-9811
Re: CPAN modules not included with OS X
On 2005.12.30, at 10:03 AM, James Reynolds wrote: Grumble. That is exactly what I wanted to know! Thanks! Does CPAN install C libraries to /usr/local/lib or somewhere else? Maybe it would help to tell you it ain't that simple? To mention openssl again, it can be installed in a variety of places, and it depends in part on where other things you may have installed might have wanted to put the packages they depend on. That's another reason for using a sandbox. It reduces the number of places you have to look for things to copy, and, more importantly, reduces the necessity of trying to determine what not to copy. For what it's worth, I don't use the perl interpreter installed by Apple to do my server stuff with. I probably could if I wanted to learn an awful lot about how it's set up, but I find it easier to leave the system alone and install a separate perl for the server, use the #! line to point to the one to use, and set the environment variables appropriately in the users I do my dev work under so the shell I'm using finds the right perldoc for my login user. (Using the separate perl also helps me avoid building a sandbox for my personal server, where I don't have resources for doing things the ideal way.)
