Re: Time Machine problem after switching cable modems

[Matt Penna]

I don’t think I can accept any credit at all, but I’m glad you have a path 
forward!

James’ web site (Pondini) continues to impress with its depth and detail, and 
it seems to cover almost every situation. He left us much too soon.

Good luck with retrieving your backups and feel free to report back.

Matt

> On Apr 9, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the help!  I really appreciate it.
> 
> Years ago, I read through a lot of the stuff from the Pondini website.  I 
> guess it's time to sort through it again.  In fact, the old link I had still 
> appears to work:
> 
> http://pondini.org/OSX/Home.html
> 
> I recently bought a new external drive, so I plan to start doing Time Machine 
> backups to a drive that is directly connected to my main mac.  Nevertheless, 
> I was still curious about what happened with my old network backups.  You 
> have answered most of those questions.  Also, I wouldn't mind retrieving the 
> old Time Machine backups and starting incrementally from there, as opposed to 
> starting from scratch.  Hopefully I will find something on the Pondini 
> website that might help with that.  It looks like the very bottom part of 
> this page might be relevant:
> 
> http://pondini.org/TM/18.html
> 
> Thanks again to both you and Matt for all the help.
> 
> Gregg
> 
>> On Apr 9, 2016, at 1:22 PM, Macs R We  wrote:
>> 
>> I forgot to answer one question:
>> 
>>> On Apr 9, 2016, at 8:28 AM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> What happens when someone wants to upgrade to a new Time Machine disk?  
>>> Isn't there a way to set up a new disk, copy the old Time Machine backups 
>>> to the new disk, and then have Time Machine do incremental backups from 
>>> there?  If so, is there some way to use that same methodology in my current 
>>> situation?
>> 
>> By and large, Time Machine doesn't handle this.  The strategy we use is to 
>> safestore the old drive in a vault against later retrievals, and start new 
>> backup for everybody.  Time Machine is a product designed with infinite 
>> no-brainer use features, but regretfully, is extremely short on no-brainer 
>> administration features.  As long as everything foes smoothly, it chugs 
>> along pretty well, but as soon as there is a complication (or you introduce 
>> one, like unexpected network operation), things can devolve pretty fast into 
>> a puddle of goo.
>> 
>> Again, let me recommend the Pondini website.  I know for a fact that he has 
>> an incantation for reanimating transplanted backup volumes; it's just 
>> tedious and overly complicated (Apple's fault, not his) and not guaranteed 
>> to work because who can tell what changes Apple has made since Pondini left 
>> us?
> 
> 
> On Apr 9, 2016, at 1:16 PM, Macs R We  wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I think I've seen what is this precise problem before.
> 
> Time Machine uses the Backups.backupdb repository for backups from the 
> computer to which the drive is directly attached.  For backups done over 
> networks, it uses the sparseimage repositories.  Don't ask me why the 
> distinction  I think it was introduced to accommodate the Time Capsule 
> product, which was entirely networked backup.
> 
> Anyway, if you set up the strategy where you backup your machine to a drive 
> attached to a networked device that isn't a Time Capsule, although it mostly 
> works, you can get into a state where the backup side of Time Machine is 
> convinced that your data is supposed to go in one of these repositories (I 
> forget one), whereas the restoral side of Time Machine is convinced that your 
> data is supposed to reside in the other one, and there isn't any.  Again, 
> don't ask me why.
> 
> (In one of my client's cases, it saw the data, but it was really old data — 
> apparently the backup side had changed its mind about which of the two 
> repositories it needed to be using about a year previously.)
> 
> If you have a crucial need to restore files from this drive, you can 
> sometimes accomplish this by moving the drive to be directly connected to the 
> machine in question.  If your data is actually in the backupsdb repository, 
> tell Time Machine to use this new backup drive directly.  If your data is 
> actually in one of the sparseimages, mount the sparseimage on your machine 
> first, then tell Time Machine to use it as a backup drive.  
> 
> The other thing to do is to look up Pondini's old website and see if there is 
> some magical Terminal incantation you can invoke to tell Time Machine "my 
> backups are HERE, dammit."
> 
> i gave up trying to do networked Time Machine backups on the cheap because 
> there were just too many things that didn't work — this was one of them, and 
> another was that the host machine would keep a counter of how many other 
> devices were attached to the backup drive and refuse you if there were more 
> than some small number 

Re: Time Machine problem after switching cable modems

[Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]]

Thanks for the help!  I really appreciate it.

Years ago, I read through a lot of the stuff from the Pondini website.  I guess 
it's time to sort through it again.  In fact, the old link I had still appears 
to work:

http://pondini.org/OSX/Home.html

I recently bought a new external drive, so I plan to start doing Time Machine 
backups to a drive that is directly connected to my main mac.  Nevertheless, I 
was still curious about what happened with my old network backups.  You have 
answered most of those questions.  Also, I wouldn't mind retrieving the old 
Time Machine backups and starting incrementally from there, as opposed to 
starting from scratch.  Hopefully I will find something on the Pondini website 
that might help with that.  It looks like the very bottom part of this page 
might be relevant:

http://pondini.org/TM/18.html

Thanks again to both you and Matt for all the help.

Gregg

> On Apr 9, 2016, at 1:22 PM, Macs R We  wrote:
> 
> I forgot to answer one question:
> 
>> On Apr 9, 2016, at 8:28 AM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>>  wrote:
> 
>> What happens when someone wants to upgrade to a new Time Machine disk?  
>> Isn't there a way to set up a new disk, copy the old Time Machine backups to 
>> the new disk, and then have Time Machine do incremental backups from there? 
>> If so, is there some way to use that same methodology in my current 
>> situation?
> 
> By and large, Time Machine doesn't handle this.  The strategy we use is to 
> safestore the old drive in a vault against later retrievals, and start new 
> backup for everybody.  Time Machine is a product designed with infinite 
> no-brainer use features, but regretfully, is extremely short on no-brainer 
> administration features.  As long as everything foes smoothly, it chugs along 
> pretty well, but as soon as there is a complication (or you introduce one, 
> like unexpected network operation), things can devolve pretty fast into a 
> puddle of goo.
> 
> Again, let me recommend the Pondini website.  I know for a fact that he has 
> an incantation for reanimating transplanted backup volumes; it's just tedious 
> and overly complicated (Apple's fault, not his) and not guaranteed to work 
> because who can tell what changes Apple has made since Pondini left us?

On Apr 9, 2016, at 1:16 PM, Macs R We  wrote:

Yeah, I think I've seen what is this precise problem before.

Time Machine uses the Backups.backupdb repository for backups from the computer 
to which the drive is directly attached.  For backups done over networks, it 
uses the sparseimage repositories.  Don't ask me why the distinction I think it 
was introduced to accommodate the Time Capsule product, which was entirely 
networked backup.

Anyway, if you set up the strategy where you backup your machine to a drive 
attached to a networked device that isn't a Time Capsule, although it mostly 
works, you can get into a state where the backup side of Time Machine is 
convinced that your data is supposed to go in one of these repositories (I 
forget one), whereas the restoral side of Time Machine is convinced that your 
data is supposed to reside in the other one, and there isn't any.  Again, don't 
ask me why.

(In one of my client's cases, it saw the data, but it was really old data — 
apparently the backup side had changed its mind about which of the two 
repositories it needed to be using about a year previously.)

If you have a crucial need to restore files from this drive, you can sometimes 
accomplish this by moving the drive to be directly connected to the machine in 
question.  If your data is actually in the backupsdb repository, tell Time 
Machine to use this new backup drive directly.  If your data is actually in one 
of the sparseimages, mount the sparseimage on your machine first, then tell 
Time Machine to use it as a backup drive.  

The other thing to do is to look up Pondini's old website and see if there is 
some magical Terminal incantation you can invoke to tell Time Machine "my 
backups are HERE, dammit."

i gave up trying to do networked Time Machine backups on the cheap because 
there were just too many things that didn't work — this was one of them, and 
another was that the host machine would keep a counter of how many other 
devices were attached to the backup drive and refuse you if there were more 
than some small number (which we dubbed the "buy Server, you deadbeat" 
message), but an OS bug caused the number of attached users not to be 
decremented when a user eventually detached, meaning I would have to reboot the 
host regularly to keep backups working.  I broke down and bought Server to run 
on the host machine, and it's worked so much better since.

> On Apr 9, 2016, at 8:28 AM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Matt,
> 
> Thanks for your response and for offering to help.
> 
> I am still having this problem, and I will try to provide the details 

Re: Time Machine problem after switching cable modems

[Macs R We]

Yeah, I think I've seen what is this precise problem before.

Time Machine uses the Backups.backupdb repository for backups from the computer 
to which the drive is directly attached.  For backups done over networks, it 
uses the sparseimage repositories.  Don't ask me why the distinction  I think 
it was introduced to accommodate the Time Capsule product, which was entirely 
networked backup.

Anyway, if you set up the strategy where you backup your machine to a drive 
attached to a networked device that isn't a Time Capsule, although it mostly 
works, you can get into a state where the backup side of Time Machine is 
convinced that your data is supposed to go in one of these repositories (I 
forget one), whereas the restoral side of Time Machine is convinced that your 
data is supposed to reside in the other one, and there isn't any.  Again, don't 
ask me why.

(In one of my client's cases, it saw the data, but it was really old data — 
apparently the backup side had changed its mind about which of the two 
repositories it needed to be using about a year previously.)

If you have a crucial need to restore files from this drive, you can sometimes 
accomplish this by moving the drive to be directly connected to the machine in 
question.  If your data is actually in the backupsdb repository, tell Time 
Machine to use this new backup drive directly.  If your data is actually in one 
of the sparseimages, mount the sparseimage on your machine first, then tell 
Time Machine to use it as a backup drive.  

The other thing to do is to look up Pondini's old website and see if there is 
some magical Terminal incantation you can invoke to tell Time Machine "my 
backups are HERE, dammit."

i gave up trying to do networked Time Machine backups on the cheap because 
there were just too many things that didn't work — this was one of them, and 
another was that the host machine would keep a counter of how many other 
devices were attached to the backup drive and refuse you if there were more 
than some small number (which we dubbed the "buy Server, you deadbeat" 
message), but an OS bug caused the number of attached users not to be 
decremented when a user eventually detached, meaning I would have to reboot the 
host regularly to keep backups working.  I broke down and bought Server to run 
on the host machine, and it's worked so much better since.

> On Apr 9, 2016, at 8:28 AM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Matt,
> 
> Thanks for your response and for offering to help.
> 
> I am still having this problem, and I will try to provide the details you 
> requested.
> 
> Both systems are wired (connected directly to my router).
> 
> You asked how I am sharing things for Time Machine.  I am not running OSX 
> Server.  I have both computers set up to share files (i.e., the File Sharing 
> option in the Sharing module of the Preferences app).  The remote Time 
> Machine computer shows up in the Shared section in the left column of the 
> Finder on the main computer.  I click on that entry, which connects to the 
> backup computer.  I click on the Time Machine disk, which I guess mounts that 
> remote disk on my main computer.  Then I go into the Time Machine module of 
> the Preferences app on my main computer and click on the Select Disk button.  
> The Time Machine disk on the remote computer shows up in the list and I 
> select it.  That remote disk is identified as being on the backup computer.  
> It shows the correct amount of total space and remaining space, but it also 
> says "None" for both the Oldest backup and the Latest backup.
> 
> If I go to the backup computer and click on the Time Machine disk in the 
> Finder, I see 2 entries.  I assume these are for the 2 computers.  One is a 
> folder called Backups.backupdb, which I assume is for the local backups on 
> the Time Machine computer.  Within that folder is a single folder with the 
> name of the backup computer, and that folder contains a bunch of folders with 
> names that look like dates plus other ID numbers.  The second of the 2 
> entries on the Time Machine disk is a Sparse Disk Image Bundle with the name 
> of the main computer (i.e., the one I want to backup).  If I right click on 
> that bundle and Show Package Contents, there are 8 entries.  There is a 
> folder called bands and 7 files with the following names: 
> 
> com.apple.TimeMachine.MachineID.bckup
> com.apple.TimeMachine.MachineID.plist
> com.apple.TimeMachine.Results.plist
> com.apple.TimeMachine.SnapshotHistory.plist
> Info.bckup
> Info.plist
> token
> 
> The bands folder has 270,565 files in it, with names that are a mix of 
> letters and numbers (but they do not look like dates, as in the other backup 
> folder).
> 
> I have not tried removing the cable modem while doing this.
> 
> What happens when someone wants to upgrade to a new Time Machine disk?  Isn't 
> there a way to set up a new disk, copy the old Time Machine backups to the 
> new disk, and 

Re: Time Machine problem after switching cable modems

[Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C]]

Hi Matt,

Thanks for your response and for offering to help.

I am still having this problem, and I will try to provide the details you 
requested.

Both systems are wired (connected directly to my router).

You asked how I am sharing things for Time Machine.  I am not running OSX 
Server.  I have both computers set up to share files (i.e., the File Sharing 
option in the Sharing module of the Preferences app).  The remote Time Machine 
computer shows up in the Shared section in the left column of the Finder on the 
main computer.  I click on that entry, which connects to the backup computer.  
I click on the Time Machine disk, which I guess mounts that remote disk on my 
main computer.  Then I go into the Time Machine module of the Preferences app 
on my main computer and click on the Select Disk button.  The Time Machine disk 
on the remote computer shows up in the list and I select it.  That remote disk 
is identified as being on the backup computer.  It shows the correct amount of 
total space and remaining space, but it also says "None" for both the Oldest 
backup and the Latest backup.

If I go to the backup computer and click on the Time Machine disk in the 
Finder, I see 2 entries.  I assume these are for the 2 computers.  One is a 
folder called Backups.backupdb, which I assume is for the local backups on the 
Time Machine computer.  Within that folder is a single folder with the name of 
the backup computer, and that folder contains a bunch of folders with names 
that look like dates plus other ID numbers.  The second of the 2 entries on the 
Time Machine disk is a Sparse Disk Image Bundle with the name of the main 
computer (i.e., the one I want to backup).  If I right click on that bundle and 
Show Package Contents, there are 8 entries.  There is a folder called bands and 
7 files with the following names: 

com.apple.TimeMachine.MachineID.bckup
com.apple.TimeMachine.MachineID.plist
com.apple.TimeMachine.Results.plist
com.apple.TimeMachine.SnapshotHistory.plist
Info.bckup
Info.plist
token

The bands folder has 270,565 files in it, with names that are a mix of letters 
and numbers (but they do not look like dates, as in the other backup folder).

I have not tried removing the cable modem while doing this.

What happens when someone wants to upgrade to a new Time Machine disk?  Isn't 
there a way to set up a new disk, copy the old Time Machine backups to the new 
disk, and then have Time Machine do incremental backups from there?  If so, is 
there some way to use that same methodology in my current situation?

Thanks again for the help,

Gregg

> On Apr 7, 2016, at 8:03 PM, Matt Penna  wrote:
> 
> Hi Gregg,
> 
> If you’re still having this problem, can you provide more details? Are both 
> systems wired or wireless? How is the drive on the remote computer being 
> shared such that Time Machine can see it—OS X Server, or some other method?
> 
> Have you tried removing the cable modem from the mix just for 
> troubleshooting? E.g., connecting the systems via a wired Ethernet switch?
> 
>   Matt
> 
>> On Apr 2, 2016, at 2:23 PM, Dinse, Gregg (NIH/NIEHS) [C] 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I backup my main computer to a disk located inside a second (locally 
>> networked) computer.
>> 
>> Today I upgraded to a new cable modem.  Right after the upgrade, Time 
>> Machine does not recognize the old backups for my main computer.
>> 
>> Within the System Preference app on my main computer, the Time Machine 
>> preference panel shows the correct name for the remote Time Machine disk and 
>> it shows the correct amount of space available on that disk, but it says 
>> "None" for both the Oldest Backup and the Latest Backup.
>> 
>> I turned off Time Machine right away because I was afraid it would start 
>> from scratch and try to backup my entire machine rather than only what 
>> changed from an hour ago.
>> 
>> I also use Time Machine to backup files on the second computer.  That is, 
>> the second computer does Time Machine backups of its own (internal) system 
>> disk as well as the (remote) system disk on my main computer.  Time Machine 
>> seems to work normally when backing up its own internal system disk, so the 
>> problem seems to be related to remote backups.
>> 
>> Are remote backups somehow labeled in a way that would change with a new 
>> cable modem?  It seems like that is what is happening, in the sense that the 
>> old backups are still there, but Time Machine seems to want to start from 
>> scratch, as if I am trying to backup a third (new and different) computer.
>> 
>> Can someone tell me how to re-associate my main computer with its remote 
>> Time Machine backups so that it only does an incremental backup when I turn 
>> Time Machine on?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Gregg

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