Re: Noticing Perl stuff along the wire again
On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 1:11 AM, Mark Anderson wrote: I'm with you 100% there. Whatever we do it should be properly planned. Let me dig though and put together a draft. On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 7:08 PM, Joshua Root wrote: I don't really care what we do with perl as long as it works. I've done way more work on the perl ports than I ever wanted to, simply because they were broken and stopping other stuff from working. I also agree. (But maybe keep support for Perl 6 as a separate port(?) in mind.) What I would probably attempt to do (without claiming that it would work) would be to keep a huge file (database) with CPAN modules (name, version, location, checksums, dependencies, ...) automatically generated and updated with some cronjob. And then write a bit of logic around that in the PortGroup + allowing developers to patch and overwrite stuff when necessary / when things/modules/new versions break. While you are drafting all those things and thinking them through ... I would really love to see integration of ruby's rvm and support for multiple versions of rails in the future (for rails it is very important to support older versions because the applications usually only work with one version and not with others). It's not perl, but it's a very similar problem with bundle automatically installing exactly the right version of dependencies etc. It's not really clear to me how the integration could/should be done and I'm not asking you to write the code yet, but if you have some suggestion, you might think along while solving the problems with Perl. Mojca ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Re: Noticing Perl stuff along the wire again
On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 1:59 AM, Mojca Miklavec mo...@macports.org wrote: I also agree. (But maybe keep support for Perl 6 as a separate port(?) in mind.) Perl 6 is different enough that there's not much point in trying to fit it into this. -- brandon s allbery kf8nh sine nomine associates allber...@gmail.com ballb...@sinenomine.net unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonadhttp://sinenomine.net ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Re: Noticing Perl stuff along the wire again
On 2014-4-6 11:24 , Mark Anderson wrote: Where would be a good place to stick this on the Wiki. There doesn't seem to be a natural spot. I guess a new page like PerlTodo would be fine. Create a ToDo category if you like. - Josh ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Noticing Perl stuff along the wire again
I know we've argued about this time and time again, but Perl issues are coming back up it seems. I've started work - admittedly not getting very far on the cpan-mp idea. I'm still trying to figure out /base to be honest and brush off my Perl-XS skills. I feel like we have had this argument again and again, and I'm loathe to start this argument again, but at what point are we going to pull the trigger on keeping one perl, deciding to drop old Perls, that kind of thing. I can put together a proposal and drop it on the wiki - if that will make things easier to decide/pick apart. --Mark ___ Mark E. Anderson e...@emer.net ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Re: Noticing Perl stuff along the wire again
On Apr 4, 2014, at 1:20 PM, Mark Anderson e...@emer.net wrote: I know we've argued about this time and time again, but Perl issues are coming back up it seems. I've started work - admittedly not getting very far on the cpan-mp idea. I'm still trying to figure out /base to be honest and brush off my Perl-XS skills. do you have anything where someone can look at it? I'd be interested in helping make things better... I feel like we have had this argument again and again, and I'm loathe to start this argument again, but at what point are we going to pull the trigger on keeping one perl, deciding to drop old Perls, that kind of thing. I can put together a proposal and drop it on the wiki - if that will make things easier to decide/pick apart. A wiki page might be a good idea - it seems like there are a few people who are strongly opposed to that general plan (keeping just one good perl), and that there's been enough inertia to keep things from changing. -- Daniel J. Luke ++ | * dl...@geeklair.net * | | *-- http://www.geeklair.net -* | ++ | Opinions expressed are mine and do not necessarily | | reflect the opinions of my employer. | ++ ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Re: Noticing Perl stuff along the wire again
On 2014-4-5 07:24 , Daniel J. Luke wrote: On Apr 4, 2014, at 1:20 PM, Mark Anderson e...@emer.net wrote: I know we've argued about this time and time again, but Perl issues are coming back up it seems. I've started work - admittedly not getting very far on the cpan-mp idea. I'm still trying to figure out /base to be honest and brush off my Perl-XS skills. do you have anything where someone can look at it? I'd be interested in helping make things better... I feel like we have had this argument again and again, and I'm loathe to start this argument again, but at what point are we going to pull the trigger on keeping one perl, deciding to drop old Perls, that kind of thing. I can put together a proposal and drop it on the wiki - if that will make things easier to decide/pick apart. A wiki page might be a good idea - it seems like there are a few people who are strongly opposed to that general plan (keeping just one good perl), and that there's been enough inertia to keep things from changing. I don't really care what we do with perl as long as it works. I've done way more work on the perl ports than I ever wanted to, simply because they were broken and stopping other stuff from working. There were some changes to perl begun in late 2008 that apparently weren't completely planned out and never really got finished. A lot of the subsequent work was attempting to fix that mess. So let's not have a repeat of that. Whatever we do, let's figure out where we're going before we start making changes, think through the impact on users and how to minimise it, and make the changes all at once when they're ready (ideally in a single commit). - Josh ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Re: Noticing Perl stuff along the wire again
I'm with you 100% there. Whatever we do it should be properly planned. Let me dig though and put together a draft. Mark --Mark ___ Mark E. Anderson e...@emer.net On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 7:08 PM, Joshua Root j...@macports.org wrote: On 2014-4-5 07:24 , Daniel J. Luke wrote: On Apr 4, 2014, at 1:20 PM, Mark Anderson e...@emer.net wrote: I know we've argued about this time and time again, but Perl issues are coming back up it seems. I've started work - admittedly not getting very far on the cpan-mp idea. I'm still trying to figure out /base to be honest and brush off my Perl-XS skills. do you have anything where someone can look at it? I'd be interested in helping make things better... I feel like we have had this argument again and again, and I'm loathe to start this argument again, but at what point are we going to pull the trigger on keeping one perl, deciding to drop old Perls, that kind of thing. I can put together a proposal and drop it on the wiki - if that will make things easier to decide/pick apart. A wiki page might be a good idea - it seems like there are a few people who are strongly opposed to that general plan (keeping just one good perl), and that there's been enough inertia to keep things from changing. I don't really care what we do with perl as long as it works. I've done way more work on the perl ports than I ever wanted to, simply because they were broken and stopping other stuff from working. There were some changes to perl begun in late 2008 that apparently weren't completely planned out and never really got finished. A lot of the subsequent work was attempting to fix that mess. So let's not have a repeat of that. Whatever we do, let's figure out where we're going before we start making changes, think through the impact on users and how to minimise it, and make the changes all at once when they're ready (ideally in a single commit). - Josh ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Re: Noticing Perl stuff along the wire again
How about making a separate perl5-rewrite branch in subversion, working on the draft in that branch, and then merging that once it is ready? That would still technically meet jmr's ideally in a single commit criterion, as the only commit to trunk would be the merge from the other branch. On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Mark Anderson e...@emer.net wrote: I'm with you 100% there. Whatever we do it should be properly planned. Let me dig though and put together a draft. Mark --Mark ___ Mark E. Anderson e...@emer.net On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 7:08 PM, Joshua Root j...@macports.org wrote: On 2014-4-5 07:24 , Daniel J. Luke wrote: On Apr 4, 2014, at 1:20 PM, Mark Anderson e...@emer.net wrote: I know we've argued about this time and time again, but Perl issues are coming back up it seems. I've started work - admittedly not getting very far on the cpan-mp idea. I'm still trying to figure out /base to be honest and brush off my Perl-XS skills. do you have anything where someone can look at it? I'd be interested in helping make things better... I feel like we have had this argument again and again, and I'm loathe to start this argument again, but at what point are we going to pull the trigger on keeping one perl, deciding to drop old Perls, that kind of thing. I can put together a proposal and drop it on the wiki - if that will make things easier to decide/pick apart. A wiki page might be a good idea - it seems like there are a few people who are strongly opposed to that general plan (keeping just one good perl), and that there's been enough inertia to keep things from changing. I don't really care what we do with perl as long as it works. I've done way more work on the perl ports than I ever wanted to, simply because they were broken and stopping other stuff from working. There were some changes to perl begun in late 2008 that apparently weren't completely planned out and never really got finished. A lot of the subsequent work was attempting to fix that mess. So let's not have a repeat of that. Whatever we do, let's figure out where we're going before we start making changes, think through the impact on users and how to minimise it, and make the changes all at once when they're ready (ideally in a single commit). - Josh ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
Re: Noticing Perl stuff along the wire again
Yes, I meant a single commit to the live ports tree, and of course you can do work on a branch. On 2014-4-5 10:55 , Eric Gallager wrote: How about making a separate perl5-rewrite branch in subversion, working on the draft in that branch, and then merging that once it is ready? That would still technically meet jmr's ideally in a single commit criterion, as the only commit to trunk would be the merge from the other branch. On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Mark Anderson e...@emer.net mailto:e...@emer.net wrote: I'm with you 100% there. Whatever we do it should be properly planned. Let me dig though and put together a draft. Mark —Mark ___ Mark E. Anderson e...@emer.net mailto:e...@emer.net On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 7:08 PM, Joshua Root j...@macports.org mailto:j...@macports.org wrote: On 2014-4-5 07:24 , Daniel J. Luke wrote: On Apr 4, 2014, at 1:20 PM, Mark Anderson e...@emer.net mailto:e...@emer.net wrote: I know we've argued about this time and time again, but Perl issues are coming back up it seems. I've started work - admittedly not getting very far on the cpan-mp idea. I'm still trying to figure out /base to be honest and brush off my Perl-XS skills. do you have anything where someone can look at it? I'd be interested in helping make things better... I feel like we have had this argument again and again, and I'm loathe to start this argument again, but at what point are we going to pull the trigger on keeping one perl, deciding to drop old Perls, that kind of thing. I can put together a proposal and drop it on the wiki - if that will make things easier to decide/pick apart. A wiki page might be a good idea - it seems like there are a few people who are strongly opposed to that general plan (keeping just one good perl), and that there's been enough inertia to keep things from changing. I don't really care what we do with perl as long as it works. I've done way more work on the perl ports than I ever wanted to, simply because they were broken and stopping other stuff from working. There were some changes to perl begun in late 2008 that apparently weren't completely planned out and never really got finished. A lot of the subsequent work was attempting to fix that mess. So let's not have a repeat of that. Whatever we do, let's figure out where we're going before we start making changes, think through the impact on users and how to minimise it, and make the changes all at once when they're ready (ideally in a single commit). - Josh ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org mailto:macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev ___ macports-dev mailing list macports-dev@lists.macosforge.org https://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo/macports-dev
