Re: High Sierra and MacPorts

[Dave Horsfall]

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017, Ryan Schmidt wrote:

The High Sierra buildbot worker is still busy building ports. If you 
want to have a higher probability that you can receive binaries from us, 
instead of having to build from source, don't upgrade yet. Same goes for 
High Sierra-specific build failures of specific ports that we haven't 
fixed or even discovered yet. If you want a higher probability that we 
find and fix those problems, wait.


Thanks; I'm happy to wait, as this thing is horribly underpowered.

--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer."

Re: High Sierra and MacPorts

[Dave Horsfall]

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017, Chris Jones wrote:


Correction... It was sent to the users and *announce* mailing lists.


Wasn't in -users, but I did find it in -announce (to which I've just 
subscribed).


--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer."

Re: High Sierra and MacPorts

[Dave Horsfall]

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017, Dave Horsfall wrote:

Yes, you did miss it. The announcement was sent out on the 8th Octo to 
both the user and devel lists. Search for the message "MacPorts 2.4.2 
has been released" which I guess is clear enough ;)


Hmmm...  I don't recall seeing it, so I must be getting forgetful in my 
old age :-(


I can't find that message in the archives; got a pointer to it?

--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer."

Re: High Sierra and MacPorts

[Dave Horsfall]

On Thu, 12 Oct 2017, Chris Jones wrote:

Yes, you did miss it. The announcement was sent out on the 8th Octo to 
both the user and devel lists. Search for the message "MacPorts 2.4.2 
has been released" which I guess is clear enough ;)


Hmmm...  I don't recall seeing it, so I must be getting forgetful in my 
old age :-(


Now to gird my loins, study the upgrade guide *very* carefully, etc; I've 
bitten myself a few times by skipping the occasional step, thinking that 
is was redundant...


Thanks.

--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer."

Re: High Sierra and MacPorts

[William H. Magill]

On Oct 12, 2017, at 11:04 AM, ges...@ftp83plus.net wrote:
> 
> The issue is the fan speed(=noise) and CPU usage (to a lesser degree), not so 
> much temperature.
> 
> 4- more specifically, would fan speed be set based on the CPU load trend, 
> rather than actual temperature? Assuming "preventive cooling" to be more 
> efficient on recent laptops that have less air flow due to thinness, while 
> having cooler, more efficient CPUs).

On my iMac11,3 Core i7 [2.93GHz - 8 GB 1067MHz] OS X 10.13 I find that the fan 
hardly ever runs. . .
except if I have run the latest TechTool Pro 9, and let it check the fans and 
sensors!
TTP winds them up to max as part of its testing, but then leaves them running!


I have a self-installed SSD in this iMac, so I use "SSD Fan Control.app” (free 
from http://exirion.net/ssdfanctrl/) to get the fans to behave again - 
switching from Auto to Smart control. I have a Samsung SSD.

I should add — the room where my iMac is located has  pretty constant ambient 
air temp of 71 degrees.


T.T.F.N.
William H. Magill
# iMac11,3 Core i7 [2.93GHz - 8 GB 1067MHz] OS X 10.13
# Macmini6,1 Intel Core i5 [2.5 Ghz - 4GB 1600MHz] OS X 10.13

mag...@icloud.com
mag...@mac.com
whmag...@gmail.com

Re: High Sierra and MacPorts

[ges...@ftp83plus.net]

I'd love to be proved wrong, but my experience with different Apple devices  
says otherwise. iPhone 3GS suddenly got painfully slow after the latest 
compatible iOS. MacBook5,2 much slower after the latest compatible MacOSX 
version. iPad 2 much slower after the latest compatible iOS version. Plus the 
continuing inability to downgrade iOS on many devices. Plus the similar 
experience of other users on different forums. Plus the ever-increasing price 
tag of recent devices compared with the older ones, often with reduced 
functionality (much smaller storage space and no upgrade ability on current 
MacBooks, for instance - I quickly calculated that getting the same RAM-storage 
combination on a new MBP would cost at least $700 more than I paid for my 
"daily driver", including hardware upgrades but excluding an expensive coffee 
spill.).

I don't believe in conspiracies, but such symptoms similarity between different 
devices / usage combination across the net is interesting and lead me to think 
this COULD be intentional. You're right the suspicion itself isn't helpful, but 
since what I describe is not uncommon, I hope we could pick each other's brain 
over the problem.

30-40 tabs on Firefox doesn't seem to much on a 8GB-RAM and indeed, memory 
pressure is most often in the green. Most of tabs are text, maybe 2-3 are 
video. For reference, on my "daily driver" (16GB-RAM, Snow Leopard) 150 tabs is 
not uncommon. Still, fan speed is lower, temperature is higher. FWIW, my gf's 
early-2014 Lenovo (8GB) barely speeds up its fan with her unreasonable 500 tabs 
(no typo: five HUNDRED, actually ranges from 200 to 700) but otherwise similar 
usage scenario. All three CPUs have the same safe design temperature  of 105C, 
and will shutdown with no warning if going over.

TL;DR

Closing FF altogether does help a small bit, but the fan never goes down to 
minimum speed under light usage (wired network for different shares, Preview 
opened with 4-5 small PDFs files, LibreOffice for text documents, Mail and 
iCal). Fan is about 3500-4000rpm @ 63C instead of 6200rpm @ 65C with FF. Or 
2000rpm@60C when closing all applications. There doesn't seem to be much of a 
correlation between load, temperature and fan speed.

Even when I ran this computer with the top case removed while waiting for a 
keyboard replacement, fan speed was still often max though temperature was 
obviously lower.

For sure I don't recall a noisy, hot or sluggish computer in years past under 
previous Mac OS X versions with a similar usage scenario. I thought about 
installing Mavericks on a different drive and using it for a while, but for 
some reason 10.11.6 doesn't recognize an external drive cloned with installer 
.dmg file to be a valid boot drive - never seen this issue before.

The issue is the fan speed(=noise) and CPU usage (to a lesser degree), not so 
much temperature.

These symptoms raise more than one hypothesis:
1- Is FF simply better written on Windows 7 than on Snow Leopard than on El 
Capitan?

2- Is Snow Leopard simply better than El Capitan at managing resources, 
especially when scarce?

3- Has Apple, voluntarily or not, introduced functions in recent Mac OS X that 
work well on same-generation hardware but tends to cripple the old?

4- more specifically, would fan speed be set based on the CPU load trend, 
rather than actual temperature? Assuming "preventive cooling" to be more 
efficient on recent laptops that have less air flow due to thinness, while 
having cooler, more efficient CPUs).

5- is the GM version of 10.11 actually different from the regular version?

6- has Apple actually set a lower safe temperature for its MacBook5,2 than it 
did for the MacBookPro8,1, increasing fan speed starting at an unrealistically 
low 59C rather than 70C (idle temp is about 55C on both)

Enviado desde mi iPhone

> El 12 oct 2017, a las 4:25, Chris Jones  escribió:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12/10/17 03:27, [ftp83plus] wrote:
>> Already did. No difference.
>> I am beginning to suspect that Apple did this on purpose to push users to 
>> buy new hardware. Just as it does crippling iPhone with bloated iOS.
> 
> Please stop make FUD like comments like this, they are no help (and also 
> wrong, but I won't go into that now).
> 
> Have you tried turning firefox off to see what happens ? You said you leave 
> it running with a lot of open tabs. My experience is FF can be a real 
> resource hog.
> 
> Anyway, this discussion is nothing to do with MacPorts so please end it here, 
> and take it to a more appropriate forum elsewhere.
> 
> Chris
> 
>>> El 11 oct 2017, a las 20:18, Clemens Lang  escribió:
>>> 
>>> On October 10, 2017 10:25:12 PM GMT+02:00, "[ftp83plus]" 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
 Still, even with a relatively low temperature (65C-so) the fan spins
 loudly, reaches max speed at 70C (read from CPU diode with Macs Fan
 Control. What is strange is the speed doesn’t seem to be 

Re: High Sierra and MacPorts

[Rainer Müller]

On 2017-10-12 12:02, Chris Jones wrote:
> See
> 
> https://lists.macports.org/pipermail/macports-announce/2017-October/date.html
> 
> 
> Maybe its not in the below because it was sent to the announce list, and
> cc'ed to users ?

Sorry, that was my fault. The announce for 2.4.2 was meant to be sent to
the users list.

Somehow I managed to make a mistake in the address format putting the
macports-dev list twice into the CC header instead of also including
macports-users.

Rainer

Re: restore_ports.tcl - in infinite loop while sorting (sort_ports $portLis)

[Chris Jones]

Deleting that entry does not resolve the problem.
I’m guessing there is another entry that it is trying to retrieve with no luck, 
but which one?

myports.txt has 324 lines - after deletion of istumbler. (wc -l)

The installation is nominally Apache2, Aspell, Mailman, Mysql 56, perl5, php56, 
postfix, python27 and a bunch of xorg stuff that I don’t recall what it is from.
I can ship off the file if anyone is interested.

Should this get a ticket filed?

I can simply re-install individually, unless there is an obvious answer to the 
problem.


It's possible there's a dependency cycle in one of your ports (i.e. A depends 
on B depends on C depends on A). We don't allow dependency cycles, but every 
once in awhile they are introduced accidentally. MacPorts itself doesn't handle 
dependency cycles well, and it's possible restore_ports.tcl doesn't either. At 
this point I couldn't tell you which of your ports might be affected by that. 
If you can narrow it down, let us know. (Try restoring half your ports. If that 
works, try restoring the other half too.)


Personally I always follow a slightly different migration procedure to 
that in the guide. I follow the instructions to the point of having a 
list of all installed, and requested ports, but instead of just 
restoring them all, using the script, I manually look at the lists and 
install, by hand, the ones I know I am still interested in. Over time, 
if I found I have missed something I still use, I install it. I do this 
primarily as house keeping exercise to weed out stuff I no longer need.


I suggest the OP tries this rather than use the provided script.

Chris

Re: High Sierra and MacPorts

[Ryan Schmidt]

On Oct 12, 2017, at 07:02, db wrote:

> On 12 Oct 2017, at 12:51, Ryan Schmidt wrote:
>> https://lists.macports.org/pipermail/macports-users/2017-September/043743.html
>> The High Sierra buildbot worker is still busy building ports. If you want to 
>> have a higher probability that you can receive binaries from us, instead of 
>> having to build from source, don't upgrade yet. Same goes for High 
>> Sierra-specific build failures of specific ports that we haven't fixed or 
>> even discovered yet. If you want a higher probability that we find and fix 
>> those problems, wait.
> 
> In which order is the High Sierra buildbot building the binaries?

As changes are committed to them. When there is a lull, we manually schedule 
batches of ports. The method of choosing which ports to schedule is somewhat 
undefined. If there is a port you would like to have built, let me know and 
I'll schedule it. For the past several days, it has been busy building all 
python modules.


> How long does it take for all ports to build, in case it's set to do so?

We do not have an easy way to schedule a build of all ports right now. And if 
we attempted to do so, it would take several weeks to do.


I'm writing a longer email about this topic and some of the difficulties, which 
will be posted on the macports-dev mailing list shortly.

Re: High Sierra and MacPorts

[db]

On 12 Oct 2017, at 12:51, Ryan Schmidt  wrote:
> https://lists.macports.org/pipermail/macports-users/2017-September/043743.html
> The High Sierra buildbot worker is still busy building ports. If you want to 
> have a higher probability that you can receive binaries from us, instead of 
> having to build from source, don't upgrade yet. Same goes for High 
> Sierra-specific build failures of specific ports that we haven't fixed or 
> even discovered yet. If you want a higher probability that we find and fix 
> those problems, wait.

In which order is the High Sierra buildbot building the binaries? How long does 
it take for all ports to build, in case it's set to do so?

Firefox and memory (was: Re: High Sierra and MacPorts)

[Michael]

On 2017-10-10, at 1:25 PM, [ftp83plus]  wrote:

> I won’t criticise the typos after reading my own grammar…;-)
> 
> As for the processes, I often see kernel_task taking a rather large chunk of 
> CPU. At the moment it’s hovering around 27%, but that’s an exception rather 
> than the rule. Most of the time it’s just Firefox eating about 20% CPU doing 
> nothing else than keeping 30-40 tabs open (found out by trial-and-error it 
> takes more CPU to reload them when clicked (Autounload tab add-on) than it 
> does keeping them loaded (now RAM isn’t too scarce).

For me, I can consistently free up 8 GB of memory by quitting firefox after 
watching youtube videos and getting a performance decrease. Enabling 
multi-process mode did not help -- it's not the tabs taking up the memory in my 
case.

In other words, I can close the window (not just the tab), the memory is still 
used, I close firefox, and between the drop in real memory and the drop in 
swapspace, I recover between 7 and 9 GB.

---
Entertaining minecraft videos
http://YouTube.com/keybounce

Re: restore_ports.tcl - in infinite loop while sorting (sort_ports $portLis)

[Ryan Schmidt]

On Oct 11, 2017, at 19:12, William H. Magill wrote:

> I Have upgraded my mini to High Sierra and trying to migrate to Mac Ports 
> 2.4.2. 
> (I had previously upgraded my iMac with no problems.)
> 
> The mini upgrade is failing in the restore_ports.tcl step
> ——--
> shianbrae> curl --location --remote-name \
> Continue> 
> https://github.com/macports/macports-contrib/raw/master/restore_ports/restore_ports.tcl
> % Total% Received % Xferd  Average Speed   TimeTime Time  Current
>   Dload  Upload   Total   SpentLeft  Speed
> 100   164  100   1640 0 67  0  0:00:02  0:00:02 --:--:--67
> 100  9474  100  94740 0   3411  0  0:00:02  0:00:02 --:--:--  3411
> [/Users/magill] magill 
> shianbrae> chmod +x restore_ports.tcl
> [/Users/magill] magill 
> shianbrae> sudo ./restore_ports.tcl myports.txt
> Warning: Skipping istumbler (not in the ports tree)
> Error: we appear to be stuck, exiting...
> infinite loop
>  while executing
> "sort_ports $portList"
>  invoked from within
> "set operationList [sort_ports $portList]"
>  (file "./restore_ports.tcl" line 285)
> —
> 
> istumbler @99_0+use_binary (active) platform='darwin 16' archs='i386 ppc' 
> date='2016-09-22T12:33:01-0400’
> 
> 
> Deleting that entry does not resolve the problem. 
> I’m guessing there is another entry that it is trying to retrieve with no 
> luck, but which one?
> 
> myports.txt has 324 lines - after deletion of istumbler. (wc -l)
> 
> The installation is nominally Apache2, Aspell, Mailman, Mysql 56, perl5, 
> php56, postfix, python27 and a bunch of xorg stuff that I don’t recall what 
> it is from.
> I can ship off the file if anyone is interested.
> 
> Should this get a ticket filed?
> 
> I can simply re-install individually, unless there is an obvious answer to 
> the problem.

It's possible there's a dependency cycle in one of your ports (i.e. A depends 
on B depends on C depends on A). We don't allow dependency cycles, but every 
once in awhile they are introduced accidentally. MacPorts itself doesn't handle 
dependency cycles well, and it's possible restore_ports.tcl doesn't either. At 
this point I couldn't tell you which of your ports might be affected by that. 
If you can narrow it down, let us know. (Try restoring half your ports. If that 
works, try restoring the other half too.)

Re: High Sierra and MacPorts

[Ryan Schmidt]

On Oct 8, 2017, at 20:04, Dave Horsfall wrote:

> Now that MacPorts is on 2.4.2, is High Sierra now fair game?

MacPorts 2.4.2 fixed a bug seen only on High Sierra with ports that want to 
install files with the setuid bit set. A very small set of ports, but important 
to fix nonetheless.

The rest of my message still applies:

https://lists.macports.org/pipermail/macports-users/2017-September/043743.html

The High Sierra buildbot worker is still busy building ports. If you want to 
have a higher probability that you can receive binaries from us, instead of 
having to build from source, don't upgrade yet. Same goes for High 
Sierra-specific build failures of specific ports that we haven't fixed or even 
discovered yet. If you want a higher probability that we find and fix those 
problems, wait.

Re: High Sierra and MacPorts

[Dominik Reichardt]

I don't know what went wrong but I didn't see the announcement here in the user 
list, nor the announcement for the previous release.
And at least for 2.4.2 neither did the list archive 
https://lists.macports.org/pipermail/macports-users/2017-October/date.html


> Am 12.10.2017 um 10:28 schrieb Chris Jones :
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12/10/17 09:27, Chris Jones wrote:
>>> On 12/10/17 00:04, Dave Horsfall wrote:
 On Mon, 9 Oct 2017, Dave Horsfall wrote:
 
 Now that MacPorts is on 2.4.2, is High Sierra now fair game?  Is it likely 
 to be even more bloated and slower on my old 4GB MacBook than before?
>>> 
>>> Well, that generated a fascinating discussion, but it didn't answer my 
>>> questions...  If there was an announcement about MacPorts 2.4.2 then I 
>>> guess I must've missed it.
>> Yes, you did miss it. The announcement was sent out on the 8th Octo to both 
>> the user and devel lists. Search for the message "MacPorts 2.4.2 has been 
>> released" which I guess is clear enough ;)
> 
> Correction... It was sent to the users and *announce* mailing lists.

Re: High Sierra and MacPorts

[Chris Jones]

On 12/10/17 09:27, Chris Jones wrote:



On 12/10/17 00:04, Dave Horsfall wrote:

On Mon, 9 Oct 2017, Dave Horsfall wrote:

Now that MacPorts is on 2.4.2, is High Sierra now fair game?  Is it 
likely to be even more bloated and slower on my old 4GB MacBook than 
before?


Well, that generated a fascinating discussion, but it didn't answer my 
questions...  If there was an announcement about MacPorts 2.4.2 then I 
guess I must've missed it.


Yes, you did miss it. The announcement was sent out on the 8th Octo to 
both the user and devel lists. Search for the message "MacPorts 2.4.2 
has been released" which I guess is clear enough ;)


Correction... It was sent to the users and *announce* mailing lists.

Re: High Sierra and MacPorts

[Chris Jones]

On 12/10/17 00:04, Dave Horsfall wrote:

On Mon, 9 Oct 2017, Dave Horsfall wrote:

Now that MacPorts is on 2.4.2, is High Sierra now fair game?  Is it 
likely to be even more bloated and slower on my old 4GB MacBook than 
before?


Well, that generated a fascinating discussion, but it didn't answer my 
questions...  If there was an announcement about MacPorts 2.4.2 then I 
guess I must've missed it.


Yes, you did miss it. The announcement was sent out on the 8th Octo to 
both the user and devel lists. Search for the message "MacPorts 2.4.2 
has been released" which I guess is clear enough ;)

Re: High Sierra and MacPorts

[Chris Jones]

On 12/10/17 03:27, [ftp83plus] wrote:

Already did. No difference.

I am beginning to suspect that Apple did this on purpose to push users to buy 
new hardware. Just as it does crippling iPhone with bloated iOS.


Please stop make FUD like comments like this, they are no help (and also 
wrong, but I won't go into that now).


Have you tried turning firefox off to see what happens ? You said you 
leave it running with a lot of open tabs. My experience is FF can be a 
real resource hog.


Anyway, this discussion is nothing to do with MacPorts so please end it 
here, and take it to a more appropriate forum elsewhere.


Chris




El 11 oct 2017, a las 20:18, Clemens Lang  escribió:

On October 10, 2017 10:25:12 PM GMT+02:00, "[ftp83plus]"  
wrote:


Still, even with a relatively low temperature (65C-so) the fan spins
loudly, reaches max speed at 70C (read from CPU diode with Macs Fan
Control. What is strange is the speed doesn’t seem to be directly
linked to the temperature.


If you haven't tried that already, try resetting your SMC. It has solved 
similar problems with my MacBook before.
Hi,
--
Clemens Lang