Re: Ubuntu 18.04.4 on older Apple hardware

[Ken Cunningham]

happy to report that the deal-breaker problem with the trackpad, 
extremely frustrating, can be solved by installing a different trackpad 
driver. Although I am aware that ubuntu on MacOS hardware is not the 
primary focus of this list, I will record the useful command for 
posterity and for those following. On this MacBook 2,1, this was the 
working command:


sudo apt install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics-hwe-18.04

other versions of this command, for example:

sudo apt install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics

were not correct for this on this machine, at least.

K

Re: Ubuntu 18.04.4 on older Apple hardware

[Ken Cunningham]

Well, there are plenty of "birthing issues" but in general, Ubuntu on 
older MacOS hardware does work.


It is a pain to get "refind" working correctly -- I still can't get it 
sorted out right. The trackpad only works reasonably well if I set all 
the acceleration to near zero, and even then, kludgy to be honest.


But access to the current browser, applications, and underlying OS 
functionality is pretty nice. This older MacBook 2,1 works very nicely.


Raimue suggested a long time ago (several years at least) to forget 
about trying to make newer software work on older MacOS hardware under 
MacOS, and to move on to Linux instead -- that might not have been a 
terrible idea. It works.


I can't escape how tightly MacOS works -- trackpad, mic input, sound, 
hardware -- I find it's much better than any other options. Linux can't 
compare. But if we're left to die in the desert, I guess this is what we 
have to choose from, and I'm happy to have it as an option.


K

Re: Ubuntu 18.04.4 on older Apple hardware

[Niels Dettenbach via macports-users]

Am Dienstag, 7. April 2020, 02:51:03 CEST schrieb James Linder:
> I’ve got a new MBP which does not play at all nicely with linux (no
> trackpad, keyboard, network I did not even try bluetooth. 
hmm,
i use Linux natively on MBPs since long time and it is a bit usual that on 
very new MBP models few things does not work "out of the box", but at least 
with some manual modifications within kernel or driver builds / config. So it 
taked me usually few days to get anything up what i need and/or want with 
such "Fresh" MBPs. Sometimes hardware "IDs" have to be added to kernel source 
by hand and some patches are around too for different purposes, efi workarounds 
for switching graphic adapters etc.. For audio, i had to test around with 
different module parameters of the driver.

Because i personally prefer (beside *BSDs) source build distributions like 
Gentoo ("bit BSDish") on my workstations it is bit easier to adapt such 
things.

But it might overwhelm lesss killed users who expect a simple installer 
process or "auto recognition" who did that all (for people familiar with 
NetBSD less the case i assume ß)..

Due to the high amount of natively (bare metal) Linux users on MPB things 
usually get "working" after a while in the main distributions. But for exotic 
features like the touchbar i have no overview if there is any solution (but 
thats no real limitation in my view)..

From what i know, the newer keyboards as trackpads are supported in newer 5er 
kernels.

If you use binary distributions with binary packages only this might not work 
well for such very new models, but few monthes later things usually change 
even there.

I have a MacBookPro11,5 here which works completely since 2016 (incl. 
thunderbolt, almost all audio stuff, cam, bluetooth, trackpad which was to 
fiddle with initially after MPB release). Except Thunderbolt networking seems 
not working hot plug.

For netbSD (natievly) older MBPs are usually much more suitable or even the 
only change to get it running "wide enough".


just my .02$
good luck,


niels.

-- 
 ---
 Niels Dettenbach
 Syndicat IT & Internet
 http://www.syndicat.com
 PGP: https://syndicat.com/pub_key.asc
 ---
 

Re: Ubuntu 18.04.4 on older Apple hardware

[James Linder]

> On 6 Apr 2020, at 8:00 pm, macports-users-requ...@lists.macports.org wrote:
> 
> Initially I burned the 64bit Ubuntu 18 version, but it wouldn't boot on my 
> 32bit EFI Mac.
> 
> There was no 32bit version of Ubuntu 18.04.4 that I saw, so I booted the 
> Ubuntu 16.x 32bit version without trouble. But I didn't want to install that, 
> as that seems doomed and out of date.
> 
> And then I stumbled across a small C program that tweaks the ISO image in 
> such a way that it allows the 64bit Ubuntu to boot on a 32bit EFI Mac. 
>  I risked one more 
> DVD and to my modest surprise, it worked very well. I can't tell you exactly 
> what it does, but someone on this list likely does know exactly what it does.
> 
> Quite possibly it might work with the USB boot method as well, but I didn't 
> try that as yet.
> 
> To get the camera working on this older MacBook, there is software in Ubuntu 
> that takes a driver from your existing MacOS installation and tweaks it 
> slightly. "isight-firmware-tools".
> 
> For newer MacBooks, there is another project to make the HD camera work. I 
> did't try that.
> 
> I did boot the 64bit DVD on another newer MacBookPro I have, and it booted 
> up. I'm not sure at this second just which graphics card it is using.
> 
> It's certainly not MacOS -- the trackpad is jittery, the mouse moves a bit 
> clumsily, setting up hardware is easy if it "just works" but not so easy if 
> it doesn't -- you have to edit conf files, etc. The microphone works in some 
> applications but not other applications (what is that about)? SO yeah -- it's 
> Linux, with all it's benefits and all the warts I remember.
> 
> But it may be useful for some things, like the applications I need to use now 
> that we're all at home with everyone in the house doing videoconferencing 
> with different groups, and we all of a sudden have a need for many current 
> computers with this capability.
> 
> I'm glad I have it as an option -- I partitioned my SSD and with a bit more 
> software that I plan to tweak today, I'm supposed to be able to dual boot 
> without trouble.

I’ve got a new MBP which does not play at all nicely with linux (no trackpad, 
keyboard, network I did not even try bluetooth.
I’m a fan of VirtualBox but I bought Parallels since it’s disk io was much 
nearer NVME native speeds.
I run full screen SuSE on 1 desktop, where it behaves beautifully: Fast, no 
noticeable impact on the rest of the system. I’m using Rosegarden and the USB 
transfer seems good.
The few niggles are: Setup is good but much more obscure than VirtualBox
If I plug in a mem stick OSX wont see it until Parallels releases it.

Ubuntu seems to have adopted many mac features eg toolbar menu on the focus’d 
app, dock etc
But this seems a way of getting all the pros without the cons

James

Re: Ubuntu 18.04.4 on older Apple hardware

[Ryan Schmidt]

On Apr 5, 2020, at 10:55, db wrote:

> On 5 Apr 2020, at 14:00, Ken Cunningham wrote:
> 
>> Although many here, including me, are focused on bringing current software 
>> to older Apple hardware within the constraints of the software capabilities 
>> last available on that OS version, there is another alternative; to install 
>> a current version of linux, such as Ubuntu, on those systems. I spent some 
>> time doing that on an older MacBook 2,1 today, and I was pleasantly 
>> surprised at the success, in the end.
>> […]
> 
> Did you try a current version of macOS on top of ESXi? I'd be curious if 
> anyone has tested this setup and how is the performance.

The current version of macOS does work in ESXi on Apple hardware, even Apple 
hardware not designed to run the current version of macOS. We do this on for 
our buildbot workers which run on 2009 Xserves.

However MacBook2,1 is not qualified for use with ESXi so I don't know if it 
would work on that hardware.

And certainly that's not going to be helpful if you actually want to use the 
MacBook's screen or keyboard to control macOS. You would only be able to access 
the VM from another computer.

Re: Ubuntu 18.04.4 on older Apple hardware

[Ken Cunningham]

Initially I burned the 64bit Ubuntu 18 version, but it wouldn't boot on my 
32bit EFI Mac.

There was no 32bit version of Ubuntu 18.04.4 that I saw, so I booted the Ubuntu 
16.x 32bit version without trouble. But I didn't want to install that, as that 
seems doomed and out of date.

And then I stumbled across a small C program that tweaks the ISO image in such 
a way that it allows the 64bit Ubuntu to boot on a 32bit EFI Mac. 
 I risked one more 
DVD and to my modest surprise, it worked very well. I can't tell you exactly 
what it does, but someone on this list likely does know exactly what it does.

Quite possibly it might work with the USB boot method as well, but I didn't try 
that as yet.

To get the camera working on this older MacBook, there is software in Ubuntu 
that takes a driver from your existing MacOS installation and tweaks it 
slightly. "isight-firmware-tools".

For newer MacBooks, there is another project to make the HD camera work. I 
did't try that.

I did boot the 64bit DVD on another newer MacBookPro I have, and it booted up. 
I'm not sure at this second just which graphics card it is using.

It's certainly not MacOS -- the trackpad is jittery, the mouse moves a bit 
clumsily, setting up hardware is easy if it "just works" but not so easy if it 
doesn't -- you have to edit conf files, etc. The microphone works in some 
applications but not other applications (what is that about)? SO yeah -- it's 
Linux, with all it's benefits and all the warts I remember.

But it may be useful for some things, like the applications I need to use now 
that we're all at home with everyone in the house doing videoconferencing with 
different groups, and we all of a sudden have a need for many current computers 
with this capability.

I'm glad I have it as an option -- I partitioned my SSD and with a bit more 
software that I plan to tweak today, I'm supposed to be able to dual boot 
without trouble.

Ken





On 2020-04-05, at 8:48 AM, Uli Wienands wrote:

> Ken,
> 
> I have been toying with that idea for a 2009 17-inch MBP (I think it may be 
> MacBook3,1). I really like the 'book; it is my main machine for playing 
> around, web surfing etc. (using mostly Riccardo & your build of 104fx on Snow 
> Leo). Apart from that, it is the machine I use mostly MacPorts-installed 
> software on, which exists on Linux as well.
> 
> Do you have somewhere a list of the "shenanigans" to get things running? I 
> know the graphics is a potential issue, I'd rather use the dedicated card.
> 
> Thanks,
> Uli
> 
> On 4/5/20 3:21 AM, Ken Cunningham wrote:
>> Although many here, including me, are focused on bringing current software 
>> to older Apple hardware within the constraints of the software capabilities 
>> last available on that OS version, there is another alternative; to install 
>> a current version of linux, such as Ubuntu, on those systems. I spent some 
>> time doing that on an older MacBook 2,1 today, and I was pleasantly 
>> surprised at the success, in the end.
>> 
>> A fairly current Ubuntu 18.04.4 will install, in a 64 bit version even on 
>> Macs with 32 bit EFI (with minor shenanigans) so long as the processor is 64 
>> bit. Most of the the familiar MacPorts ports are there, without the issues 
>> with old libc versions or lack of thread_local or lack of other modern 
>> features. Most of the hardware has drivers with a bit of looking, like the 
>> integrated camera. Seeing a Macbook 2,1 run the current versions of Spotify, 
>> Google Chrome, and Zoom was kind of surprising, to be honest.
>> 
>> I float this for information only, in case people get too frustrated with 
>> their hardware not running some current software offerring they really 
>> desire...
>> 
>> K
> 

Re: Ubuntu 18.04.4 on older Apple hardware

[db]

On 5 Apr 2020, at 14:00, macports-users-requ...@lists.macports.org wrote:
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 01:21:40 -0700
> From: Ken Cunningham 
> To: macports-users@lists.macports.org
> Subject: Ubuntu 18.04.4 on older Apple hardware
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Although many here, including me, are focused on bringing current software to 
> older Apple hardware within the constraints of the software capabilities last 
> available on that OS version, there is another alternative; to install a 
> current version of linux, such as Ubuntu, on those systems. I spent some time 
> doing that on an older MacBook 2,1 today, and I was pleasantly surprised at 
> the success, in the end.
> […]

Did you try a current version of macOS on top of ESXi? I'd be curious if anyone 
has tested this setup and how is the performance.

Re: Ubuntu 18.04.4 on older Apple hardware

[Uli Wienands]

Ken,

I have been toying with that idea for a 2009 17-inch MBP (I think it may 
be MacBook3,1). I really like the 'book; it is my main machine for 
playing around, web surfing etc. (using mostly Riccardo & your build of 
104fx on Snow Leo). Apart from that, it is the machine I use mostly 
MacPorts-installed software on, which exists on Linux as well.


Do you have somewhere a list of the "shenanigans" to get things running? 
I know the graphics is a potential issue, I'd rather use the dedicated card.


Thanks,
Uli

On 4/5/20 3:21 AM, Ken Cunningham wrote:

Although many here, including me, are focused on bringing current software to 
older Apple hardware within the constraints of the software capabilities last 
available on that OS version, there is another alternative; to install a 
current version of linux, such as Ubuntu, on those systems. I spent some time 
doing that on an older MacBook 2,1 today, and I was pleasantly surprised at the 
success, in the end.

A fairly current Ubuntu 18.04.4 will install, in a 64 bit version even on Macs 
with 32 bit EFI (with minor shenanigans) so long as the processor is 64 bit. 
Most of the the familiar MacPorts ports are there, without the issues with old 
libc versions or lack of thread_local or lack of other modern features. Most of 
the hardware has drivers with a bit of looking, like the integrated camera. 
Seeing a Macbook 2,1 run the current versions of Spotify, Google Chrome, and 
Zoom was kind of surprising, to be honest.

I float this for information only, in case people get too frustrated with their 
hardware not running some current software offerring they really desire...

K