RE: Urgent… Possibility of needing a new power cord?

[george b]

Make sure the connector on the corde is clean and also the connector on the 
mac.  There was a person here who had a issue like that and they found a staple 
in the female connection of the mac book pro sucked in by the magnet

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Matthew Dierckens
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 06:55
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Urgent… Possibility of needing a new power cord?

Guys,
So I'm not sure exactly what to do here. This might just be a faulty power 
cord, although this just happened yesterday. I let my Mac completely die, and 
went to plug it in. I left it plugged in, and then turned it on late last night 
to send an email. The Mac would not turn on, it wouldn't even turn on when I 
press and hold the power button and then turn it on again. I've tried a few 
different plugs, and still nothing. It just seems pretty strange that one this 
is a new battery and cord, and two. That if this is in fact those issues, that 
is just what happened right as I make the Mac die.
If anybody has any suggestions for a possible fix, other then getting a new 
power cord which I can't afford at the moment, that would be excellent.
You even by the old power cords for the 2011 mac?

Matt Dierckens
Certified Assistive technology specialist Macintosh trainer Canadian phone: 
5199629140 U.S. Phone: 5734011018 Sent from my iPhone

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Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[Mary Otten]

For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the necessity 
for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme importance of keeping 
your commitment regarding the quality of excess ability. I only meant that I 
didn't think they should have to know about all the inns and outs. But they 
need to do is ensure that the final product does what it should do. And the way 
they do that is by hiring and holding accountable people who know what they're 
doing. I think the jury still is out on whether they can do that. Google 
certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, there's a laugh. The problem with the 
little screen reader vendors is that there well little. So they can't do it 
either. No model is perfect alas. The big companies should be able to do it. 
They have the resources. Do they have the will?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility.  They may 
> not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and 
> importance.  Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest 
> products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his 
> engineers.  If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, 
> then so can his underlings, past and future.
> 
> As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that 
> may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality 
> control.  We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using 
> VoiceOver.  Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver 
> the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not.  To 
> these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view 
> that we should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what 
> we deserve.  I am one of these people.  I want and expect VoiceOver to be 
> indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear 
> that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business 
> pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not 
> just for an initial release either.  I would prefer not to move to Windows, 
> but if I did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy 
> was untenable.
> 
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Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[E.T.]

   "Google does not do it. Microsoft is a laugh. And the screen reader 
vendors are little."


   This is because none of them build both the hardware and the 
software. Apple does both and quite well. Does that put them on an even 
higher level of responsibility? No. But we as the user who requires 
accessibility have the responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues 
that impacts that accessibility. It does little good to pick them apart 
if we are not reporting bugs.


   And if we are reporting the bugs then might we not be far better to 
work together to seek work arounds until such a time when the bugs are 
squashed rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests?


   I know nothing of what it takes to run a large corporation like 
Apple. But surely they have hundreds of departments, thousands of 
employees, most who do not have a clue what goes on next door. If any of 
you want to make changes, hire on as a liaison and good luck.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the necessity 
for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme importance of keeping 
your commitment regarding the quality of excess ability. I only meant that I 
didn't think they should have to know about all the inns and outs. But they 
need to do is ensure that the final product does what it should do. And the way 
they do that is by hiring and holding accountable people who know what they're 
doing. I think the jury still is out on whether they can do that. Google 
certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, there's a laugh. The problem with the 
little screen reader vendors is that there well little. So they can't do it 
either. No model is perfect alas. The big companies should be able to do it. 
They have the resources. Do they have the will?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:

I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility.  They may not 
know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and importance.  
Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest products for his 
admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his engineers.  If Steve Jobs 
could understand what made Apple products great, then so can his underlings, 
past and future.

As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that may 
be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality 
control.  We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using 
VoiceOver.  Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver the 
quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not.  To these 
people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view that we 
should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what we 
deserve.  I am one of these people.  I want and expect VoiceOver to be 
indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear 
that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business 
pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not just 
for an initial release either.  I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I 
did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy w

as untenable.


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Re: Editing text in Safari with El Capitan: I think I found the solution.

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

But that *IS* the problem!  Good grief, you’re surely not saying that this is 
an acceptable way to edit text, are you?

Well, even if you are, just compare it to Yosemite.  Do you see the difference? 
 In Yosemite the editing is fluid and problem free, with the VO cursor tracking 
your edits across lines and paragraphs.  In here, it’s just completely messed 
up.

I’m struggling to put this into words so I can report it to Apple accessibility 
at the highest possible rank.  My other two bugs didn’t make it, but I’m going 
to try and get these in before the next beta.

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clean my mac on El Capitan

[Faisal ali]

Hello everyone,
Is clean my mac completely   incompatible on el Capitan? Every time I fire it 
up, the app remains with no windows and is not at all functional.

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Re: Urgent… Possibility of needing a new power cord?

[joseph hudson]

Hello George, it actually was on another list that this was found yes, this 
truly did happen. It will be interesting to know what you find Matt under those 
connections.
> On Oct 24, 2015, at 9:27 AM, george b  wrote:
> 
> Make sure the connector on the corde is clean and also the connector on the 
> mac.  There was a person here who had a issue like that and they found a 
> staple in the female connection of the mac book pro sucked in by the magnet
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Dierckens
> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 06:55
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Urgent… Possibility of needing a new power cord?
> 
> Guys,
> So I'm not sure exactly what to do here. This might just be a faulty power 
> cord, although this just happened yesterday. I let my Mac completely die, and 
> went to plug it in. I left it plugged in, and then turned it on late last 
> night to send an email. The Mac would not turn on, it wouldn't even turn on 
> when I press and hold the power button and then turn it on again. I've tried 
> a few different plugs, and still nothing. It just seems pretty strange that 
> one this is a new battery and cord, and two. That if this is in fact those 
> issues, that is just what happened right as I make the Mac die.
> If anybody has any suggestions for a possible fix, other then getting a new 
> power cord which I can't afford at the moment, that would be excellent.
> You even by the old power cords for the 2011 mac?
> 
> Matt Dierckens
> Certified Assistive technology specialist Macintosh trainer Canadian phone: 
> 5199629140 U.S. Phone: 5734011018 Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Update to 10.11.1 fixed mail crashing

[Tom Frank]

Mail would open then “quit unexpectedly.” In frustration I checked if there 
were any updates, and yes, there was one to 10.11.1 that fixed the problems. I 
recommend that everyone updates.
Tom Frank
vermont...@gmail.com




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Re: posting to facebook

[John Panarese]

   No problem. My Skype ID is jpanarese67


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT



> On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:45 PM, Walter Harper  wrote:
> 
> I did try can you add me to skype 
> wharper1121 
>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:44 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
>> 
>> You can post from El Capitan. You have to fiddle a little bit with the tab 
>> or shift tab keys, but I’ve successfully posted several times from 
>> Notification center.
>> 
>> 
>> Take Care
>> 
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>> 
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> 
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> 
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:43 PM, Walter Harper  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ok,
>>> Is it worth going back to yosemite?
 On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:42 PM, joseph hudson  wrote:
 
 Hello, this is broken in El Capitan, the workaround is to use Safari.
> On Oct 23, 2015, at 6:43 PM, Walter Harper  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> I think for some reason when I go to post to facebook from the mac I 
> can’t see the post button with voiceover.  I am trying to post from the 
> facebook widget.
> 
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>>> 
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>> 
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Re: clean my mac on El Capitan

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi!

Have you actually grabbed the new version? :)

That used to be the issue on older versions that didn't have compatibility with 
El Capitan. You'll want to visit their website
http://macpaw.com/cleanmymac
and grab it there.

Nicolai
> On Oct 24, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Faisal ali  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> Is clean my mac completely   incompatible on el Capitan? Every time I fire it 
> up, the app remains with no windows and is not at all functional.
> 
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Urgent… Possibility of needing a new power cord?

[Matthew Dierckens]

Guys,
So I'm not sure exactly what to do here. This might just be a faulty power 
cord, although this just happened yesterday. I let my Mac completely die, and 
went to plug it in. I left it plugged in, and then turned it on late last night 
to send an email. The Mac would not turn on, it wouldn't even turn on when I 
press and hold the power button and then turn it on again. I've tried a few 
different plugs, and still nothing. It just seems pretty strange that one this 
is a new battery and cord, and two. That if this is in fact those issues, that 
is just what happened right as I make the Mac die.
If anybody has any suggestions for a possible fix, other then getting a new 
power cord which I can't afford at the moment, that would be excellent.
You even by the old power cords for the 2011 mac?

Matt Dierckens
Certified Assistive technology specialist
Macintosh trainer
Canadian phone: 5199629140
U.S. Phone: 5734011018
Sent from my iPhone

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Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[Krister Ekstrom]

Plus, you have to report the bugs in a tome that makes us worthy of making 
business with and that’s *not* the kind of tone we often hear here. Sadly i’ve 
been in beta test groups where the tone was much like that around here and as 
long as that tone persisted nothing much was achieved.
/Krister

> 24 okt. 2015 kl. 19:29 skrev E.T. :
> 
>   "Google does not do it. Microsoft is a laugh. And the screen reader vendors 
> are little."
> 
>   This is because none of them build both the hardware and the software. 
> Apple does both and quite well. Does that put them on an even higher level of 
> responsibility? No. But we as the user who requires accessibility have the 
> responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues that impacts that 
> accessibility. It does little good to pick them apart if we are not reporting 
> bugs.
> 
>   And if we are reporting the bugs then might we not be far better to work 
> together to seek work arounds until such a time when the bugs are squashed 
> rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests?
> 
>   I know nothing of what it takes to run a large corporation like Apple. But 
> surely they have hundreds of departments, thousands of employees, most who do 
> not have a clue what goes on next door. If any of you want to make changes, 
> hire on as a liaison and good luck.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the 
>> necessity for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme importance 
>> of keeping your commitment regarding the quality of excess ability. I only 
>> meant that I didn't think they should have to know about all the inns and 
>> outs. But they need to do is ensure that the final product does what it 
>> should do. And the way they do that is by hiring and holding accountable 
>> people who know what they're doing. I think the jury still is out on whether 
>> they can do that. Google certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, there's a 
>> laugh. The problem with the little screen reader vendors is that there well 
>> little. So they can't do it either. No model is perfect alas. The big 
>> companies should be able to do it. They have the resources. Do they have the 
>> will?
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility.  They may 
>>> not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and 
>>> importance.  Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest 
>>> products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his 
>>> engineers.  If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, 
>>> then so can his underlings, past and future.
>>> 
>>> As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that 
>>> may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about 
>>> quality control.  We are the customers and we expect a great experience 
>>> while using VoiceOver.  Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can 
>>> never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others 
>>> might not.  To these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are 
>>> endorsing the view that we should merely be grateful for an inferior 
>>> alternative instead of what we deserve.  I am one of these people.  I want 
>>> and expect VoiceOver to be indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid 
>>> Windows screen readers, and fear that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver 
>>> puts it under unwelcome business pressures that adversely affect us, 
>>> particularly in recent times, and not just for an initial release either.  
>>> I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I did, it would only because 
>>> I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy w
> as untenable.
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
> 
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Re: Navigating to End of Table

[Anne Robertson]

Hello George,

It’s as I said in my previous message. The two types of command have been 
switched over. Go to Beginning is now VO-Home and Go to Visible Beginning is 
now VO-Shift-Home and the same for Go to End and Go to Visible End. I’ve no 
idea why they’ve done this.

Cheers,

Anne


> On 24 Oct 2015, at 14:50, george b  wrote:
> 
> Ann,
>  
> It would be nice if you know the new commands to let us in on the sevret 
> please.
>  
> thanks
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anne Robertson
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 23:35
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Navigating to End of Table
>  
> Hello Brandon,
>  
> They’ve switched the commands for Go to last visible Item and go to last Item 
> in El Capitán.
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Anne
>  
>  
>> On 23 Oct 2015, at 22:31, Brandon A. Olivares (The Pianist) 
>> > wrote:
>>  
>> Hello,
>>  
>> In previous versions of OS X, you could use the end-of-window command 
>> (vo-function-shift-right arrow) to navigate to the end of a table. However, 
>> now, that simply takes me to the end of the page. There seems to be no easy 
>> way of jumping to the end of a table, so that I can quickly navigate past it 
>> to the rest of the page. Is there some new command, or way of doing this?
>>  
>>  
>> --
>> Anything is possible,
>> Brandon Olivares
>>  
>> www.CoCreationCoaching.org 
>> Create a life of infinite possibilities!
>>  
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cocreationcoaching 
>> 
>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/coachcocreation 
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> 
>>  
>>  
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Re: MacKeeper class action suit garners refunds

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi!

I have had them tell me that snake32.exe was a virus and needed to be removed 
from my computer before. Obviously, this is funny, because .exe is a Windows 
file association. Of course, people who've never looked at file extensions 
before probably don't know that, so it's easy enough to believe the scare 
tactics. After all, my father almost believed it.

I actually bought MacKeeper once, and haven't used it since. I didn't even 
remember I'd bought it way back until I did some digging.

I haven't seen their silly popups ever since I prevented Safari from showing 
them and only enabling them when required, and made sure my Mac had no malware. 
I can't say I'm surprised by the class action suit.

Nicolai
> On Oct 24, 2015, at 6:25 AM, Michael Marshall  
> wrote:
> 
> are they the fools who make those stupid popups that come up on some sites 
> and say stuff like
> Your mac is infected with spyware?
> how stupid do they think we are?
>> On 24 Oct 2015, at 7:03 PM, Eric Oyen  wrote:
>> 
>> just added them to my firewall. this way, I can't get to them and they can't 
>> get to me. :)
>> 
>> btw, I use Waterroof as my firewall interface on my OS X Lion system. Its a 
>> little tricky getting used to at first, but with a little time and some 
>> reading, it becomes the app of choice for us.
>> 
>> -eric
>> 
>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:07 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote:
>> 
>>> Pity they didn’t get a proper smackdown in your courts for that day’s work.
>>> 
>>> I block Zeobit, Krontek and MacKeeper domains at the border.  I consider 
>>> that lot indistinguishable from malware purveyors.  This is truly 
>>> unfortunate as they clearly aren’t actually true malware but have simply 
>>> chosen an unethical business practice to scare people out of their money
>>> 
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Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[Robin]

That's not "True" as (I Beleive) Google does 
Manufacture its Own (the Nexus) & Microsoft does with (Surface & Lumia & XBox)


Their TTS offerings may not be ToTheStandard of 
Apple's TTS (VoiceOver), but they are steadily 
making improvements along the road




On the OtherHand, Apple "appears" to be slipping 
InThisArea EvenThough they offer 
additionalFeatures, previous features are "slipping" in my view



I don't recall many VoiceOver "Bugs" with 
the release of iOS3-iOS4-etc., but with the 
Release of iOS8 many VoiceOver "Bugs" are steadily surfacing


Apple made "sure" NonVoiceOver "Bugs were 
not "present" IN iOS9's Release because they 
couldn't handle the PR (PublicRelations) if it 
weren't, but they could handle VoiceOver's Bugs


JustSayihng
At 10:29 AM 10/24/2015, you wrote:
   "Google does not do it. Microsoft is a 
laugh. And the screen reader vendors are little."


   This is because none of them build both the 
hardware and the software. Apple does both and 
quite well. Does that put them on an even 
higher level of responsibility? No. But we as 
the user who requires accessibility have the 
responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues 
that impacts that accessibility. It does little 
good to pick them apart if we are not reporting bugs.


   And if we are reporting the bugs then might 
we not be far better to work together to seek 
work arounds until such a time when the bugs 
are squashed rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests?


   I know nothing of what it takes to run a 
large corporation like Apple. But surely they 
have hundreds of departments, thousands of 
employees, most who do not have a clue what 
goes on next door. If any of you want to make 
changes, hire on as a liaison and good luck.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely 
agree with you about the necessity for those 
with power and Apple to recognize the extreme 
importance of keeping your commitment regarding 
the quality of excess ability. I only meant 
that I didn't think they should have to know 
about all the inns and outs. But they need to 
do is ensure that the final product does what 
it should do. And the way they do that is by 
hiring and holding accountable people who know 
what they're doing. I think the jury still is 
out on whether they can do that. Google 
certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, there's a 
laugh. The problem with the little screen 
reader vendors is that there well little. So 
they can't do it either. No model is perfect 
alas. The big companies should be able to do 
it. They have the resources. Do they have the will?

Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:

I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t 
know about accessibility.  They may not know 
the details, but they ought to understand the 
urgency and importance.  Steve Jobs was once 
the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest 
products for his admiring audience; he 
didn’t palm the job off to his 
engineers.  If Steve Jobs could understand 
what made Apple products great, then so can his underlings, past and future.


As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely 
one part of accessibility, that may be 
completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to 
a discussion about quality control.  We are 
the customers and we expect a great experience 
while using VoiceOver.  Perhaps you accept 
that a mainstream company can never deliver 
the quality expected of an accessibility 
company, but others might not.  To these 
people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you 
are endorsing the view that we should merely 
be grateful for an inferior alternative 
instead of what we deserve.  I am one of these 
people.  I want and expect VoiceOver to be 
indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid 
Windows screen readers, and fear that 
Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it 
under unwelcome business pressures that 
adversely affect us, particularly in recent 
times, and not just for an initial release 
either.  I would prefer not to move to 
Windows, but if I did, it would only because I 
finally accepted that Apple’s strategy w

as untenable.


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RE: Navigating to End of Table

[george b]

Ann,

 

It would be nice if you know the new commands to let us in on the sevret please.

 

thanks

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Anne Robertson
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 23:35
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Navigating to End of Table

 

Hello Brandon,

 

They’ve switched the commands for Go to last visible Item and go to last Item 
in El Capitán.

 

Cheers,

 

Anne

 

 

On 23 Oct 2015, at 22:31, Brandon A. Olivares (The Pianist) 
 > wrote:

 

Hello,

 

In previous versions of OS X, you could use the end-of-window command 
(vo-function-shift-right arrow) to navigate to the end of a table. However, 
now, that simply takes me to the end of the page. There seems to be no easy way 
of jumping to the end of a table, so that I can quickly navigate past it to the 
rest of the page. Is there some new command, or way of doing this?

 

 

--

Anything is possible,

Brandon Olivares

 

www.CoCreationCoaching.org  

Create a life of infinite possibilities!

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cocreationcoaching

Twitter: https://twitter.com/coachcocreation

 

 

 

 

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 .
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Re: clean my mac on El Capitan

[Andrew Lamanche]

> On Oct 24, 2015, at 2:42 PM, Faisal ali  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> Is clean my mac completely   incompatible on el Capitan? Every time I fire it 
> up, the app remains with no windows and is not at all functional.
> 
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. You need to 
> upgrade to clean my Mac to the latest version which is compatible

Hundred
>  

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RE: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[M. Taylor]

Hello Chris,

I occasionally use the Zoom tool in OS X.  It's very nice and works very well.  

I've considered purchasing ZoomText for the Mac but, as yet, see no need to do 
so as the native 
Zoom tool meets all of my needs.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Chris Gilland
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 3:18 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

You mention about them having other accessibility things than just Voiceover to 
deal with.  I’m curious if anyone on this list happens to therefore use Zoom 
either on OSX, or on I O S.  If so, I don’t have quite enough sight to use it 
on either, but I’m wondering in general how well it works, and how stable it is 
in El Capitan?  Which oh, my! I just noticed something.  In the latest version 
that just came out, 10.11.1, Alex finally says Capitan correctly.  Not really a 
major thing to be excited about, but still, it is one thing fixed.

That’s awesome!

Chris.

> On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
> 
> I agree, Mary, hence why they have their own team of accessibility engineers, 
> that *have* to work on 4 different operating systems, and work on not just 
> Voiceover. It makes me sick how many people think VoiceOver is the only 
> accessibility feature Apple has to work on at all times, so they expect 
> features to be 100% bug free upon release. Apple will get to the issues when 
> they get to them, so people just need to be patient, or report them every so 
> often to get them bumped up in the priority list, or don’t let the door hit 
> ya where the good lord split ya.
> 
>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:21 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Brian,
>> I'm not sure what you meant by higher ups. But I wouldn't expect the top 
>> management at a company like Apple to have much of a clue about details 
>> regarding accessibility. The real issue is quality control and whether or 
>> not the people implementing excess ability have a clue. If Tim Cook doesn't 
>> really understand all that much about how voiceover or assistive touch 
>> works, that really is good. He doesn't need to know that kind of thing.
>> Mary
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 6:13 PM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the heads up will be staying put on Yosemite for good now. 
>>> Captain and my experience was just awful real big step backwards as far as 
>>> accessibility. And I am not surprised as I met with someone from Apple 
>>> yesterday and was stunned to hear that none of the higher ups have a real 
>>> understanding of accessibility and with the lack of stability in Capitan 
>>> and VO I am not surprised.
 On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:40 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  
 wrote:
 
 My opinion is that unless you have a specific reason to move to El 
 Capitan, staying put will give you the better experience.  At this stage 
 I’d say the El Capitan experience is merely tolerable, but not great.  
 Responsiveness is a definite plus, and I have come to endure iBooks for 
 sheer lack of choice and find that I’m glad not to have to remove it every 
 time I update.  But other than that, it’s a bit meh, really.
 
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>>> 
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Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[Mary Otten]

Google does not make their Nexus phones and tablets. The contract that out to 
other companies.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 24, 2015, at 11:25 AM, Robin  wrote:
> 
> That's not "True" as (I Beleive) Google does Manufacture its Own (the Nexus) 
> & Microsoft does with (Surface & Lumia & XBox)
> 
> Their TTS offerings may not be ToTheStandard of Apple's TTS (VoiceOver), but 
> they are steadily making improvements along the road
> 
> 
> 
> On the OtherHand, Apple "appears" to be slipping InThisArea EvenThough they 
> offer additionalFeatures, previous features are "slipping" in my view
> 
> 
> I don't recall many VoiceOver "Bugs" with the release of 
> iOS3-iOS4-etc., but with the Release of iOS8 many VoiceOver 
> "Bugs" are steadily surfacing
> 
> Apple made "sure" NonVoiceOver "Bugs were not "present" IN iOS9's 
> Release because they couldn't handle the PR (PublicRelations) if it weren't, 
> but they could handle VoiceOver's Bugs
> 
> JustSayihng
> At 10:29 AM 10/24/2015, you wrote:
>>   "Google does not do it. Microsoft is a laugh. And the screen reader 
>> vendors are little."
>> 
>>   This is because none of them build both the hardware and the software. 
>> Apple does both and quite well. Does that put them on an even higher level 
>> of responsibility? No. But we as the user who requires accessibility have 
>> the responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues that impacts that 
>> accessibility. It does little good to pick them apart if we are not 
>> reporting bugs.
>> 
>>   And if we are reporting the bugs then might we not be far better to work 
>> together to seek work arounds until such a time when the bugs are squashed 
>> rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests?
>> 
>>   I know nothing of what it takes to run a large corporation like Apple. But 
>> surely they have hundreds of departments, thousands of employees, most who 
>> do not have a clue what goes on next door. If any of you want to make 
>> changes, hire on as a liaison and good luck.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>>> For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the 
>>> necessity for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme 
>>> importance of keeping your commitment regarding the quality of excess 
>>> ability. I only meant that I didn't think they should have to know about 
>>> all the inns and outs. But they need to do is ensure that the final product 
>>> does what it should do. And the way they do that is by hiring and holding 
>>> accountable people who know what they're doing. I think the jury still is 
>>> out on whether they can do that. Google certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, 
>>> there's a laugh. The problem with the little screen reader vendors is that 
>>> there well little. So they can't do it either. No model is perfect alas. 
>>> The big companies should be able to do it. They have the resources. Do they 
>>> have the will?
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  
 wrote:
 
 I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility.  
 They may not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency 
 and importance.  Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the 
 latest products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to 
 his engineers.  If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products 
 great, then so can his underlings, past and future.
 
 As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, 
 that may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion 
 about quality control.  We are the customers and we expect a great 
 experience while using VoiceOver.  Perhaps you accept that a mainstream 
 company can never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility 
 company, but others might not.  To these people, Apple’s offering is 
 inferior and you are endorsing the view that we should merely be grateful 
 for an inferior alternative instead of what we deserve.  I am one of these 
 people.  I want and expect VoiceOver to be indistinguishable in quality 
 from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear that Apple’s 
 internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business pressures that 
 adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not just for an 
 initial release either.  I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I 
 did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy w
>> as untenable.
 
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Re: Editing text in Safari with El Capitan: I think I found the solution.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I'm not saying it is, nor am I saying it isn't.  What I'm simply saying is, 
I wonder if Apple intended it to work this way.  I never once said it was 
ideal.  I never once said it was not confusing.  I never once said that 
Apple shouldn't try doing better with it.  Make that very clear!  Don't put 
words in my mouth, please.  Smile.  I'm only stating that I don't know 
Apple's logic of why they did things this way, nor do I know if they meant 
it to work this way.  I only know that this is how it works, and I was doing 
nothing more than trying to explain to those who might be 
wonderring/confused.


Acceptance not withstanding one way or another.

Chris.
- Original Message - 
From: "Sabahattin Gucukoglu" 

To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" 
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: Editing text in Safari with El Capitan: I think I found the 
solution.



But that *IS* the problem!  Good grief, you’re surely not saying that this 
is an acceptable way to edit text, are you?


Well, even if you are, just compare it to Yosemite.  Do you see the 
difference?  In Yosemite the editing is fluid and problem free, with the VO 
cursor tracking your edits across lines and paragraphs.  In here, it’s just 
completely messed up.


I’m struggling to put this into words so I can report it to Apple 
accessibility at the highest possible rank.  My other two bugs didn’t make 
it, but I’m going to try and get these in before the next beta.


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Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

It’s true: Google don’t even make the effort on Android.  They make a much more 
concerted effort on ChromeOS, though, where (surprise!) the platform is used 
much more heavily in the educational environments for which a mandate of 
accessibility would incentivise progress.

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Re: Editing text in Safari with El Capitan: I think I found the solution.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

It isn't a problem, Alex.  That was kind of my point.  I think it's just a 
new way of Apple doing things, and I was trying to clear up that confusion 
for anyone who might be confused thinking it's broken.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Alex Hall" 

To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" 
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: Editing text in Safari with El Capitan: I think I found the 
solution.



What's the problem? Aside from a click each time I move the cursor, and new 
lines not being spoken, I've not seen editing problems in Safari. I've 
certainly not seen problems of any kind in non-Safari text fields. Is this 
related to Quick Nav? I never use that, so that's the only thing I can think 
of.
On Oct 24, 2015, at 07:56, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


See... I wonder if Apple actually intended to make it this way.  I agree 
totally with you that it's a bit awquard, and you might even be correct to 
go as far as saying it's a broken bug.  It's kind of hard to say.


Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Sabahattin Gucukoglu" 


To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" 
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: Editing text in Safari with El Capitan: I think I found the 
solution.



Well, thanks for confirming that at least it’s not just me, anyway.  I 
still regard this as serious breakage; no other text field behaves like 
that. Indeed even in correctly-behaving text fields—say the one in 
Mail—one still has the focus tracking problem to deal with, but at least 
it’s possible to use VO and standard cursor navigation consistently and 
correctly.


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Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com

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Re: Urgent… Possibility of needing a new power cord?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

You wrote:

they found a staple in the female connection of the mac book pro sucked in 
by the magnet.


Wo!

My! Gawod!  You're freaking kidding me!

Man! Just when you think you've seen it all!  I wonder how the heck that 
happened!  What were they doing with a staple by that port, in the first 
place?  Now, you have me very intrigued!  Do I want to know?


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "george b" 

To: 
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 10:27 AM
Subject: RE: Urgent… Possibility of needing a new power cord?


Make sure the connector on the corde is clean and also the connector on the 
mac.  There was a person here who had a issue like that and they found a 
staple in the female connection of the mac book pro sucked in by the magnet


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Dierckens

Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 06:55
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Urgent… Possibility of needing a new power cord?

Guys,
So I'm not sure exactly what to do here. This might just be a faulty power 
cord, although this just happened yesterday. I let my Mac completely die, 
and went to plug it in. I left it plugged in, and then turned it on late 
last night to send an email. The Mac would not turn on, it wouldn't even 
turn on when I press and hold the power button and then turn it on again. 
I've tried a few different plugs, and still nothing. It just seems pretty 
strange that one this is a new battery and cord, and two. That if this is in 
fact those issues, that is just what happened right as I make the Mac die.
If anybody has any suggestions for a possible fix, other then getting a new 
power cord which I can't afford at the moment, that would be excellent.

You even by the old power cords for the 2011 mac?

Matt Dierckens
Certified Assistive technology specialist Macintosh trainer Canadian phone: 
5199629140 U.S. Phone: 5734011018 Sent from my iPhone


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Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[E.T.]

Krister,
   You have said this before and the concept is lost on some people. It 
is so true tho, that if one wants to catch a fly, use honey, not vinegar.


   The people at Apple that we report bugs to are themselves not the 
developers but the conduit. We show them respect, we get respect in turn.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 10/24/2015 11:22 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:

Plus, you have to report the bugs in a tome that makes us worthy of making 
business with and that’s *not* the kind of tone we often hear here. Sadly i’ve 
been in beta test groups where the tone was much like that around here and as 
long as that tone persisted nothing much was achieved.
/Krister


24 okt. 2015 kl. 19:29 skrev E.T. :

   "Google does not do it. Microsoft is a laugh. And the screen reader vendors are 
little."

   This is because none of them build both the hardware and the software. Apple 
does both and quite well. Does that put them on an even higher level of 
responsibility? No. But we as the user who requires accessibility have the 
responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues that impacts that 
accessibility. It does little good to pick them apart if we are not reporting 
bugs.

   And if we are reporting the bugs then might we not be far better to work 
together to seek work arounds until such a time when the bugs are squashed 
rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests?

   I know nothing of what it takes to run a large corporation like Apple. But 
surely they have hundreds of departments, thousands of employees, most who do 
not have a clue what goes on next door. If any of you want to make changes, 
hire on as a liaison and good luck.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the necessity 
for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme importance of keeping 
your commitment regarding the quality of excess ability. I only meant that I 
didn't think they should have to know about all the inns and outs. But they 
need to do is ensure that the final product does what it should do. And the way 
they do that is by hiring and holding accountable people who know what they're 
doing. I think the jury still is out on whether they can do that. Google 
certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, there's a laugh. The problem with the 
little screen reader vendors is that there well little. So they can't do it 
either. No model is perfect alas. The big companies should be able to do it. 
They have the resources. Do they have the will?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:

I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility.  They may not 
know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and importance.  
Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest products for his 
admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his engineers.  If Steve Jobs 
could understand what made Apple products great, then so can his underlings, 
past and future.

As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that may 
be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality 
control.  We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using 
VoiceOver.  Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver the 
quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not.  To these 
people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view that we 
should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what we 
deserve.  I am one of these people.  I want and expect VoiceOver to be 
indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear 
that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business 
pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not just 
for an initial release either.  I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I 
did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy

w

as untenable.


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Re: Calibrating The iPhone Battery

[Rob Bender]

Hi Kawal and everyone. I tried this with my 5S and no VoiceOver or Siri when 
the phone restarted. I have a pass code on my phone so it looks like I will 
have to have someone enter my pass code and turn on VoiceOver for me in order 
to do anything.
 I was hoping I could do it from iTunes, but I need to respond from my phone.

> On Oct 24, 2015, at 2:55 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hello Scott.
> 
> I’ve have been following your advice on calibrating my battery as you know I 
> have the 6S Plus.
> 
> So I let the battery run down until there was no power left.  So now that the 
> phone has almost charged, I held the home and power button together.  Would 
> the phone have started as there was no feedback.  Please tell me if one is 
> meant to get Voice Over feedback.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 24 Oct 2015, at 06:19, joseph hudson  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Mark, yes that's exactly what Scott means.
>>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 2:16 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Scott,
>>> 
>>> I changed the Subject line to more accurately reflect our conversation.
>>> 
>>> Thank you ever so much for the tips on how to calibrate my iPhone battery.  
>>> 
>>> I will do exactly as you suggest.  
>>> 
>>> I have already rebooted the phone and I have forced a reset via
>>> simultaneously pressing both the Home and Power button until the device
>>> restarted by displaying the Apple Logo.
>>> 
>>> One question:
>>> 
>>> When you say "completely drain the battery", do you mean let the battery
>>> drain all the way down until the phone will no longer power on? Past all of
>>> the warnings?  
>>> 
>>> Thank you again,
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>>> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 5:27 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Mark on iOS 9.1, So Far
>>> 
>>> Mark, I think I can help you on the battery front.
>>> 
>>> I'm running the 6S+ with 9.1, a 6 with 9.1 and several iPads with 9.1.  When
>>> you first start out with a device the battery circuits need a bit of
>>> celebration.  It's not like the old days where a battery was just a battery.
>>> There's complex little circuits embedded in the batteries that actually
>>> control their discharge and manage their operation.  These need to calibrate
>>> and this is also why you should calibrate your phone once per month or so.
>>> Charge and fully discharge the phone a few times and you should see far
>>> better battery life.  Also, once you install the OS and the phone restarts,
>>> reboot it one time further.  Use the holding of the home and power buttons
>>> to accomplish this.  A restart after the phone initially boots has also
>>> helped me clear many a drain issue.  Once your new installs stabilize I
>>> think you'll find that your battery life has improved.  Let me know if this
>>> helps at all.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Scott
>>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 22, 2015, at 5:30 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
 
 Hello Everyone,
 
 Well, last night, I finally installed iOS 9.1 on my 6 Plus.
 
 For me, there are no proverbial show-stoppers.  
 
 1.
 However, given that I have been in an ongoing dialog with Apple 
 engineers, I am a little disappointed that the camera app zoom 
 VoiceOver bug still persist.  However, on a positive note, at least, 
 enabling VoiceOver, after zooming in on an image, no longer cancels the
>>> zoom.  Baby steps, eh?
 (smile).  
 
 2.
 I am surprised at how much I miss having the time announced when 
 waking the phone.
 
 3.
 Perhaps it's just me but I swear the quality of Samantha has been 
 greatly degraded in this version.  I just don't understand why, with 
 every major release since iOS 6.x, the quality of Samantha has been
>>> steadily declining.
 Of course, this is just my opinion.  What I do find interesting is 
 that Samantha's pronunciation of words that were absolutely correct in 
 iOS 8, has been changed and are now incorrect in iOS 9.1.
 
 In iOS 8.x, I found the high quality version of the Samantha voice 
 somewhat pleasant, in iOS 9.x, I find it unsettling, to say the least.  
 I cannot imagine having the current Samantha voice reading long 
 stretches of texts, whereas in the previous iOS, this would not have 
 even been at issue.  Is Apple trying to force everyone to Alex?  (Yes, a
>>> conspiracy theory).
 (Smile).   
 
 4.
 Also, the SMS Reply To dictation feedback problem is very, very annoying.
>>> 
 
 For those who disagree, let me say that I respect your opinion.  Also, 
 the feedback is not much of a problem if one dictates using either a 
 Bluetooth or wired headset.  I suppose it is not much of an issue if 
 one only dictates
 1 or 2 words.  However, if one attempts 

Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[Daniel Miller]

Mary’s correct. Just because they brand them as the Google Nexus, doesn’t mean 
Google makes them. They’re made by HTC, Asus, etc.
> On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:46 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Google does not make their Nexus phones and tablets. The contract that out to 
> other companies.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 24, 2015, at 11:25 AM, Robin  wrote:
>> 
>> That's not "True" as (I Beleive) Google does Manufacture its Own (the Nexus) 
>> & Microsoft does with (Surface & Lumia & XBox)
>> 
>> Their TTS offerings may not be ToTheStandard of Apple's TTS (VoiceOver), but 
>> they are steadily making improvements along the road
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On the OtherHand, Apple "appears" to be slipping InThisArea EvenThough they 
>> offer additionalFeatures, previous features are "slipping" in my view
>> 
>> 
>> I don't recall many VoiceOver "Bugs" with the release of 
>> iOS3-iOS4-etc., but with the Release of iOS8 many VoiceOver 
>> "Bugs" are steadily surfacing
>> 
>> Apple made "sure" NonVoiceOver "Bugs were not "present" IN iOS9's 
>> Release because they couldn't handle the PR (PublicRelations) if it weren't, 
>> but they could handle VoiceOver's Bugs
>> 
>> JustSayihng
>> At 10:29 AM 10/24/2015, you wrote:
>>>  "Google does not do it. Microsoft is a laugh. And the screen reader 
>>> vendors are little."
>>> 
>>>  This is because none of them build both the hardware and the software. 
>>> Apple does both and quite well. Does that put them on an even higher level 
>>> of responsibility? No. But we as the user who requires accessibility have 
>>> the responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues that impacts that 
>>> accessibility. It does little good to pick them apart if we are not 
>>> reporting bugs.
>>> 
>>>  And if we are reporting the bugs then might we not be far better to work 
>>> together to seek work arounds until such a time when the bugs are squashed 
>>> rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests?
>>> 
>>>  I know nothing of what it takes to run a large corporation like Apple. But 
>>> surely they have hundreds of departments, thousands of employees, most who 
>>> do not have a clue what goes on next door. If any of you want to make 
>>> changes, hire on as a liaison and good luck.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
 For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the 
 necessity for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme 
 importance of keeping your commitment regarding the quality of excess 
 ability. I only meant that I didn't think they should have to know about 
 all the inns and outs. But they need to do is ensure that the final 
 product does what it should do. And the way they do that is by hiring and 
 holding accountable people who know what they're doing. I think the jury 
 still is out on whether they can do that. Google certainly doesn't do it. 
 Microsoft, there's a laugh. The problem with the little screen reader 
 vendors is that there well little. So they can't do it either. No model is 
 perfect alas. The big companies should be able to do it. They have the 
 resources. Do they have the will?
 Mary
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  
> wrote:
> 
> I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility.  
> They may not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency 
> and importance.  Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the 
> latest products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off 
> to his engineers.  If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple 
> products great, then so can his underlings, past and future.
> 
> As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, 
> that may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion 
> about quality control.  We are the customers and we expect a great 
> experience while using VoiceOver.  Perhaps you accept that a mainstream 
> company can never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility 
> company, but others might not.  To these people, Apple’s offering is 
> inferior and you are endorsing the view that we should merely be grateful 
> for an inferior alternative instead of what we deserve.  I am one of 
> these people.  I want and expect VoiceOver to be indistinguishable in 
> quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear that Apple’s 
> internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business pressures 
> that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not just for 
> an initial release either.  I would prefer not to move to 

Re: Wifi calling

[Daniel Miller]

The service name changes for wifi calling regardless of carrier.
> On Oct 24, 2015, at 4:12 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:
> 
> For Sprint WiFi calling the service provider name changes. Also Sprint WiFi 
> is always on in my house even though I have good signals in most of it. 
> 
> 
> Jonathan Cohn 
> 
>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:27 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
>> 
>> You can leave it on at all times. It only uses wifi for devices that don’t 
>> have a cellular connection, or when your connection gets weak on the phone.
>> 
>>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:02 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Daniel. I did find the Apple support earticle to which you 
>>> referred. That had not come up when I simply googled Wi-Fi calling. But I 
>>> am still not sure whether or not I'm going to have a problem if I have 
>>> Wi-Fi calling turned on and I'm out around town in a place where I do have 
>>> a cell connection but no Wi-Fi. Is the phone going to be smart enough to 
>>> simply use my cell connection? Or do I have to turn Wi-Fi calling off? I 
>>> guess I can just go down the Street away from my house and find out the 
>>> hard way.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 23, 2015, at 7:42 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
 
 Hi Mary,
 
 If you have t-mobile or sprint, you can use what’s called enhanced wi-fi 
 calling, which allows other iPads, iPods or Macs to make and receive wifi 
 calls, the same way your phone does. However, the really awesome advantage 
 to this is you can leave your phone at home, or somewhere else entirely, 
 or even turned completely off, and your other devices you have set up will 
 ring as if you had normal continuity set up. Do a google search for making 
 a call with wi-fi calling, and a result from apple support should pop up. 
 That page will give you all the information you need.
 
> On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:34 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> My new iPhone has the capability of doing Wi-Fi calling. It was not on by 
> default. When I turned it on, it seemed to allow me to also have my iPad 
> mini two, which is not a cell model, do this Wi-Fi calling. So I googled 
> around and wasn't really able to find out very much information. I 
> understand the purpose of Wi-Fi calling is to let you make phone calls 
> when your cell network is weak. However, if you have it enabled, and are 
> in an area with a strong cell signal, will you use your cellular network? 
> Or will you use your Wi-Fi network? This is, of course, assuming the 
> Wi-Fi network is also strong. And how would a Wi-Fi enabled iPad with no 
> cellular capability do wi-Fi calling? Or, if you do have Wi-Fi calling 
> enabled, and are out in the city and have no Wi-Fi available, will you 
> still be able to use your cell network without turning this feature off? 
> I am just not clear about whether it is a good idea to have it turned on 
> all the time, or just turn it on when you need it.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: From Yosemite to El Capitan and Back: One New User's Story

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
THen one could ask why vlc works like a charm?
Vlc also uses qt from what i know.
/A
> 23 okt. 2015 kl. 18:10 skrev Sabahattin Gucukoglu :
> 
> I believe this is because Parallels uses QT for the UI, and we all know the 
> story there.  Basically if Parallels were to become more accessible—which 
> isn’t much to ask, really, given that they’re a Mac-only product—then they’d 
> have to cross over to native widgets with Cocoa.
> 
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Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[Devin Prater]

For what its worth, I'm always respectful to the people at Apple. I simply tell 
them the problems, and they pass it on.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:22 PM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> Plus, you have to report the bugs in a tome that makes us worthy of making 
> business with and that’s *not* the kind of tone we often hear here. Sadly 
> i’ve been in beta test groups where the tone was much like that around here 
> and as long as that tone persisted nothing much was achieved.
> /Krister
> 
>> 24 okt. 2015 kl. 19:29 skrev E.T. :
>> 
>>  "Google does not do it. Microsoft is a laugh. And the screen reader vendors 
>> are little."
>> 
>>  This is because none of them build both the hardware and the software. 
>> Apple does both and quite well. Does that put them on an even higher level 
>> of responsibility? No. But we as the user who requires accessibility have 
>> the responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues that impacts that 
>> accessibility. It does little good to pick them apart if we are not 
>> reporting bugs.
>> 
>>  And if we are reporting the bugs then might we not be far better to work 
>> together to seek work arounds until such a time when the bugs are squashed 
>> rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests?
>> 
>>  I know nothing of what it takes to run a large corporation like Apple. But 
>> surely they have hundreds of departments, thousands of employees, most who 
>> do not have a clue what goes on next door. If any of you want to make 
>> changes, hire on as a liaison and good luck.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
>>> For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the 
>>> necessity for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme 
>>> importance of keeping your commitment regarding the quality of excess 
>>> ability. I only meant that I didn't think they should have to know about 
>>> all the inns and outs. But they need to do is ensure that the final product 
>>> does what it should do. And the way they do that is by hiring and holding 
>>> accountable people who know what they're doing. I think the jury still is 
>>> out on whether they can do that. Google certainly doesn't do it. Microsoft, 
>>> there's a laugh. The problem with the little screen reader vendors is that 
>>> there well little. So they can't do it either. No model is perfect alas. 
>>> The big companies should be able to do it. They have the resources. Do they 
>>> have the will?
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  
 wrote:
 
 I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility.  They 
 may not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and 
 importance.  Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest 
 products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his 
 engineers.  If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, 
 then so can his underlings, past and future.
 
 As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, 
 that may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about 
 quality control.  We are the customers and we expect a great experience 
 while using VoiceOver.  Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can 
 never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others 
 might not.  To these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are 
 endorsing the view that we should merely be grateful for an inferior 
 alternative instead of what we deserve.  I am one of these people.  I want 
 and expect VoiceOver to be indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid 
 Windows screen readers, and fear that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver 
 puts it under unwelcome business pressures that adversely affect us, 
 particularly in recent times, and not just for an initial release either.  
 I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I did, it would only because 
 I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy w
>> as untenable.
 
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 "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Not meaning to be rude, but if you think this bug compares to editting text 
with a BT  keyboard on Android, then I have some honest to god news for you. 
Editting with Android and a BT keyboard is phenominally disgusting! right 
now!


Write me off list if you want more detail, but I assure you, editting on I O 
S is way! way! better.


clgillan...@gmail.com

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Devin Prater" 

To: 
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO


I know Apple can do well. I've seen it a lot in iOS. But we just have bugs 
upon bugs to deal with, and I'm just not sure what the quality control 
people do with accessibility. For example, right now there is a bug in iOS 
where if you use a bluetooth keyboard and arrow arround, and you hit a 
space, it won't say space at all. Sure, the smallest of bugs, but it still 
makes Apple look sloppy, just like Google. Google has had this problem with 
Docs for ages, but everywhere else Apple is wonderful, but they're starting 
to fail at accessibility.


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:28 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  
wrote:


I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility.  They 
may not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and 
importance.  Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest 
products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his 
engineers.  If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, 
then so can his underlings, past and future.


As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, 
that may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about 
quality control.  We are the customers and we expect a great experience 
while using VoiceOver.  Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can 
never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others 
might not.  To these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are 
endorsing the view that we should merely be grateful for an inferior 
alternative instead of what we deserve.  I am one of these people.  I want 
and expect VoiceOver to be indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid 
Windows screen readers, and fear that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver 
puts it under unwelcome business pressures that adversely affect us, 
particularly in recent times, and not just for an initial release either. 
I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I did, it would only because 
I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy was untenable.


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Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Very true.  For example, Motorola makes the Nexus 6.

Asus made the 7 inch Nexus 7 tablet.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Mary Otten" 

To: 
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO


Google does not make their Nexus phones and tablets. The contract that out 
to other companies.

Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 24, 2015, at 11:25 AM, Robin  wrote:

That's not "True" as (I Beleive) Google does Manufacture its Own (the 
Nexus) & Microsoft does with (Surface & Lumia & XBox)


Their TTS offerings may not be ToTheStandard of Apple's TTS (VoiceOver), 
but they are steadily making improvements along the road




On the OtherHand, Apple "appears" to be slipping InThisArea EvenThough 
they offer additionalFeatures, previous features are "slipping" in my view



I don't recall many VoiceOver "Bugs" with the release of 
iOS3-iOS4-etc., but with the Release of iOS8 many VoiceOver 
"Bugs" are steadily surfacing


Apple made "sure" NonVoiceOver "Bugs were not "present" IN iOS9's 
Release because they couldn't handle the PR (PublicRelations) if it 
weren't, but they could handle VoiceOver's Bugs


JustSayihng
At 10:29 AM 10/24/2015, you wrote:
  "Google does not do it. Microsoft is a laugh. And the screen reader 
vendors are little."


  This is because none of them build both the hardware and the software. 
Apple does both and quite well. Does that put them on an even higher 
level of responsibility? No. But we as the user who requires 
accessibility have the responsibility to keep Apple apprised of issues 
that impacts that accessibility. It does little good to pick them apart 
if we are not reporting bugs.


  And if we are reporting the bugs then might we not be far better to 
work together to seek work arounds until such a time when the bugs are 
squashed rather than engage in these endless circular bitchfests?


  I know nothing of what it takes to run a large corporation like Apple. 
But surely they have hundreds of departments, thousands of employees, 
most who do not have a clue what goes on next door. If any of you want to 
make changes, hire on as a liaison and good luck.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


On 10/24/2015 10:09 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
For when ever it may be worth, I absolutely agree with you about the 
necessity for those with power and Apple to recognize the extreme 
importance of keeping your commitment regarding the quality of excess 
ability. I only meant that I didn't think they should have to know about 
all the inns and outs. But they need to do is ensure that the final 
product does what it should do. And the way they do that is by hiring 
and holding accountable people who know what they're doing. I think the 
jury still is out on whether they can do that. Google certainly doesn't 
do it. Microsoft, there's a laugh. The problem with the little screen 
reader vendors is that there well little. So they can't do it either. No 
model is perfect alas. The big companies should be able to do it. They 
have the resources. Do they have the will?

Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:28 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  
wrote:


I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility. 
They may not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency 
and importance.  Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the 
latest products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off 
to his engineers.  If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple 
products great, then so can his underlings, past and future.


As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, 
that may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion 
about quality control.  We are the customers and we expect a great 
experience while using VoiceOver.  Perhaps you accept that a mainstream 
company can never deliver the quality expected of an accessibility 
company, but others might not.  To these people, Apple’s offering is 
inferior and you are endorsing the view that we should merely be 
grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what we deserve.  I am 
one of these people.  I want and expect VoiceOver to be 
indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, 
and fear that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under 
unwelcome business pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in 
recent times, and not just for an initial release either.  I would 
prefer not to move to Windows, but if I did, it would only because I 
finally accepted that Apple’s strategy w

as untenable.


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Re: Urgent… Possibility of needing a new power cord?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I'm sorry.  I just can't help laughing my head off at that.  It's not funny, 
no, but yeah, it kind of is, in retrospect, provided the fact that they got 
it working after all.


Chris.


chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "joseph hudson" 

To: 
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: Urgent… Possibility of needing a new power cord?


Hello George, it actually was on another list that this was found yes, this 
truly did happen. It will be interesting to know what you find Matt under 
those connections.

On Oct 24, 2015, at 9:27 AM, george b  wrote:

Make sure the connector on the corde is clean and also the connector on 
the mac.  There was a person here who had a issue like that and they found 
a staple in the female connection of the mac book pro sucked in by the 
magnet


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Dierckens

Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 06:55
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Urgent… Possibility of needing a new power cord?

Guys,
So I'm not sure exactly what to do here. This might just be a faulty power 
cord, although this just happened yesterday. I let my Mac completely die, 
and went to plug it in. I left it plugged in, and then turned it on late 
last night to send an email. The Mac would not turn on, it wouldn't even 
turn on when I press and hold the power button and then turn it on again. 
I've tried a few different plugs, and still nothing. It just seems pretty 
strange that one this is a new battery and cord, and two. That if this is 
in fact those issues, that is just what happened right as I make the Mac 
die.
If anybody has any suggestions for a possible fix, other then getting a 
new power cord which I can't afford at the moment, that would be 
excellent.

You even by the old power cords for the 2011 mac?

Matt Dierckens
Certified Assistive technology specialist Macintosh trainer Canadian 
phone: 5199629140 U.S. Phone: 5734011018 Sent from my iPhone


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MODERATOR NOTE: Do not Post Sale Offers to the List Without Permission

[M. Taylor]

Hello Everyone,

Please do not post sale offers to the group without first having received
permission to do so from either Cara or me.

Should you receive said permission, please state in your post that you have
received permission from the list owner/moderator.

Thank you,

Mark

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Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[Pete Nalda]

I've used Zoom in El Capitan all the time with no problem I could tell. 

Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
Louie P (Pete) Nalda
MySpace.com/musikonalda
Facebook.com/lpnalda
Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
Twitter: @lpnalda

> On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:31 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Chris,
> 
> I occasionally use the Zoom tool in OS X.  It's very nice and works very 
> well.  
> 
> I've considered purchasing ZoomText for the Mac but, as yet, see no need to 
> do so as the native 
> Zoom tool meets all of my needs.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Gilland
> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 3:18 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO
> 
> You mention about them having other accessibility things than just Voiceover 
> to deal with.  I’m curious if anyone on this list happens to therefore use 
> Zoom either on OSX, or on I O S.  If so, I don’t have quite enough sight to 
> use it on either, but I’m wondering in general how well it works, and how 
> stable it is in El Capitan?  Which oh, my! I just noticed something.  In the 
> latest version that just came out, 10.11.1, Alex finally says Capitan 
> correctly.  Not really a major thing to be excited about, but still, it is 
> one thing fixed.
> 
> That’s awesome!
> 
> Chris.
> 
>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
>> 
>> I agree, Mary, hence why they have their own team of accessibility 
>> engineers, that *have* to work on 4 different operating systems, and work on 
>> not just Voiceover. It makes me sick how many people think VoiceOver is the 
>> only accessibility feature Apple has to work on at all times, so they expect 
>> features to be 100% bug free upon release. Apple will get to the issues when 
>> they get to them, so people just need to be patient, or report them every so 
>> often to get them bumped up in the priority list, or don’t let the door hit 
>> ya where the good lord split ya.
>> 
>>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:21 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Brian,
>>> I'm not sure what you meant by higher ups. But I wouldn't expect the top 
>>> management at a company like Apple to have much of a clue about details 
>>> regarding accessibility. The real issue is quality control and whether or 
>>> not the people implementing excess ability have a clue. If Tim Cook doesn't 
>>> really understand all that much about how voiceover or assistive touch 
>>> works, that really is good. He doesn't need to know that kind of thing.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 23, 2015, at 6:13 PM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
 
 Thanks for the heads up will be staying put on Yosemite for good now. 
 Captain and my experience was just awful real big step backwards as far as 
 accessibility. And I am not surprised as I met with someone from Apple 
 yesterday and was stunned to hear that none of the higher ups have a real 
 understanding of accessibility and with the lack of stability in Capitan 
 and VO I am not surprised.
> On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:40 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  
> wrote:
> 
> My opinion is that unless you have a specific reason to move to El 
> Capitan, staying put will give you the better experience.  At this stage 
> I’d say the El Capitan experience is merely tolerable, but not great.  
> Responsiveness is a definite plus, and I have come to endure iBooks for 
> sheer lack of choice and find that I’m glad not to have to remove it 
> every time I update.  But other than that, it’s a bit meh, really.
> 
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>>> 
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>>> email to 

Re: Calibrating The iPhone Battery

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Hello Scott.

I’ve have been following your advice on calibrating my battery as you know I 
have the 6S Plus.

So I let the battery run down until there was no power left.  So now that the 
phone has almost charged, I held the home and power button together.  Would the 
phone have started as there was no feedback.  Please tell me if one is meant to 
get Voice Over feedback.

Thanks.

Kawal.
> On 24 Oct 2015, at 06:19, joseph hudson  wrote:
> 
> Hello Mark, yes that's exactly what Scott means.
>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 2:16 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Scott,
>> 
>> I changed the Subject line to more accurately reflect our conversation.
>> 
>> Thank you ever so much for the tips on how to calibrate my iPhone battery.  
>> 
>> I will do exactly as you suggest.  
>> 
>> I have already rebooted the phone and I have forced a reset via
>> simultaneously pressing both the Home and Power button until the device
>> restarted by displaying the Apple Logo.
>> 
>> One question:
>> 
>> When you say "completely drain the battery", do you mean let the battery
>> drain all the way down until the phone will no longer power on? Past all of
>> the warnings?  
>> 
>> Thank you again,
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 5:27 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Mark on iOS 9.1, So Far
>> 
>> Mark, I think I can help you on the battery front.
>> 
>> I'm running the 6S+ with 9.1, a 6 with 9.1 and several iPads with 9.1.  When
>> you first start out with a device the battery circuits need a bit of
>> celebration.  It's not like the old days where a battery was just a battery.
>> There's complex little circuits embedded in the batteries that actually
>> control their discharge and manage their operation.  These need to calibrate
>> and this is also why you should calibrate your phone once per month or so.
>> Charge and fully discharge the phone a few times and you should see far
>> better battery life.  Also, once you install the OS and the phone restarts,
>> reboot it one time further.  Use the holding of the home and power buttons
>> to accomplish this.  A restart after the phone initially boots has also
>> helped me clear many a drain issue.  Once your new installs stabilize I
>> think you'll find that your battery life has improved.  Let me know if this
>> helps at all.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Scott
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 22, 2015, at 5:30 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> 
>>> Well, last night, I finally installed iOS 9.1 on my 6 Plus.
>>> 
>>> For me, there are no proverbial show-stoppers.  
>>> 
>>> 1.
>>> However, given that I have been in an ongoing dialog with Apple 
>>> engineers, I am a little disappointed that the camera app zoom 
>>> VoiceOver bug still persist.  However, on a positive note, at least, 
>>> enabling VoiceOver, after zooming in on an image, no longer cancels the
>> zoom.  Baby steps, eh?
>>> (smile).  
>>> 
>>> 2.
>>> I am surprised at how much I miss having the time announced when 
>>> waking the phone.
>>> 
>>> 3.
>>> Perhaps it's just me but I swear the quality of Samantha has been 
>>> greatly degraded in this version.  I just don't understand why, with 
>>> every major release since iOS 6.x, the quality of Samantha has been
>> steadily declining.
>>> Of course, this is just my opinion.  What I do find interesting is 
>>> that Samantha's pronunciation of words that were absolutely correct in 
>>> iOS 8, has been changed and are now incorrect in iOS 9.1.
>>> 
>>> In iOS 8.x, I found the high quality version of the Samantha voice 
>>> somewhat pleasant, in iOS 9.x, I find it unsettling, to say the least.  
>>> I cannot imagine having the current Samantha voice reading long 
>>> stretches of texts, whereas in the previous iOS, this would not have 
>>> even been at issue.  Is Apple trying to force everyone to Alex?  (Yes, a
>> conspiracy theory).
>>> (Smile).   
>>> 
>>> 4.
>>> Also, the SMS Reply To dictation feedback problem is very, very annoying.
>> 
>>> 
>>> For those who disagree, let me say that I respect your opinion.  Also, 
>>> the feedback is not much of a problem if one dictates using either a 
>>> Bluetooth or wired headset.  I suppose it is not much of an issue if 
>>> one only dictates
>>> 1 or 2 words.  However, if one attempts to dictate a full sentence, 
>>> then the feedback becomes problematic as a kind of feedback loop 
>>> ensues causing a great deal of random text to be inserted as Siri, 
>>> hearing VoiceOver, begins to dictate to itself.
>>> 
>>> 5.
>>> I know this comes up every time a new OS is released but it seems to 
>>> me as though my battery drains faster since updating from 8.x to 9.1.  
>>> I just turned off a lot of items that were active in the background 
>>> app refresh area so I'll see how it goes.  However, I can tell you 
>>> 

Re: From Yosemite to El Capitan and Back: One New User's Story

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Good question.  IIRC most of the accessibility was coming from tooltips rather 
than the button labels, but I’ll give VLC another shot and see how it goes.

On the other hand, VirtualBox still doesn’t work.  I’ve since moved to Fusion, 
but VBox is definitely QT.

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I phone 5S for sale

[nicholasacosta775]

Sent from my iPhone hello, I have an iPhone 5s running iOS 8.4.1. I just got 
myself an iPhone six not too long ago and I want to know if anyone wants an 
iPhone 5s. For those of you that don't have an iPod touch, this will be 
something that you might want to get your hands on. Also, if you want an iPhone 
for testing purposes such as jailbreaking, this might be the perfect time for 
you to get this phone. I am filling the phone for $99 and it is a 32 GB model. 
Please excuse my dictation issues. I am using my iPhone to send this message as 
a dictated message. If you want the phone, please email me off line. My email 
will be below. Thank you.

nicholasacosta...@gmail.com

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Re: Wifi calling

[Jonathan C. Cohn]

For Sprint WiFi calling the service provider name changes. Also Sprint WiFi is 
always on in my house even though I have good signals in most of it. 


Jonathan Cohn 

> On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:27 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
> 
> You can leave it on at all times. It only uses wifi for devices that don’t 
> have a cellular connection, or when your connection gets weak on the phone.
> 
>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:02 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, Daniel. I did find the Apple support earticle to which you referred. 
>> That had not come up when I simply googled Wi-Fi calling. But I am still not 
>> sure whether or not I'm going to have a problem if I have Wi-Fi calling 
>> turned on and I'm out around town in a place where I do have a cell 
>> connection but no Wi-Fi. Is the phone going to be smart enough to simply use 
>> my cell connection? Or do I have to turn Wi-Fi calling off? I guess I can 
>> just go down the Street away from my house and find out the hard way.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 7:42 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Mary,
>>> 
>>> If you have t-mobile or sprint, you can use what’s called enhanced wi-fi 
>>> calling, which allows other iPads, iPods or Macs to make and receive wifi 
>>> calls, the same way your phone does. However, the really awesome advantage 
>>> to this is you can leave your phone at home, or somewhere else entirely, or 
>>> even turned completely off, and your other devices you have set up will 
>>> ring as if you had normal continuity set up. Do a google search for making 
>>> a call with wi-fi calling, and a result from apple support should pop up. 
>>> That page will give you all the information you need.
>>> 
 On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:34 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
 
 My new iPhone has the capability of doing Wi-Fi calling. It was not on by 
 default. When I turned it on, it seemed to allow me to also have my iPad 
 mini two, which is not a cell model, do this Wi-Fi calling. So I googled 
 around and wasn't really able to find out very much information. I 
 understand the purpose of Wi-Fi calling is to let you make phone calls 
 when your cell network is weak. However, if you have it enabled, and are 
 in an area with a strong cell signal, will you use your cellular network? 
 Or will you use your Wi-Fi network? This is, of course, assuming the Wi-Fi 
 network is also strong. And how would a Wi-Fi enabled iPad with no 
 cellular capability do wi-Fi calling? Or, if you do have Wi-Fi calling 
 enabled, and are out in the city and have no Wi-Fi available, will you 
 still be able to use your cell network without turning this feature off? I 
 am just not clear about whether it is a good idea to have it turned on all 
 the time, or just turn it on when you need it.
 Mary
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
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Re: captures for the mac

[Eric Oyen]

I use Romola (I think thats the spelling). btw, it can be found in the chrome 
app extensions on OS X and there are also extensions for safari and firefox. 
with only a few exceptions, it has largely solved a lot of my headaches with 
capchas.

-eric

On Oct 24, 2015, at 9:09 PM, Walter Harper wrote:

> Hello all,
> Does anyone know of a way to solve a capture on the mac?  I know there is web 
> Vism for windows.
> Walter 
> 
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captures for the mac

[Walter Harper]

Hello all,
Does anyone know of a way to solve a capture on the mac?  I know there is web 
Vism for windows.
Walter 

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Moving the mouse pointer to click on different places.

[Singing Sparrow]

I am using an ap that i need to move the mouse pointer to click on some 
options i need to change doing the standard control option space is not 
working how can i accomplish this task?


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Re: Calibrating The iPhone Battery

[joseph hudson]

Hello, yes you should give voiceover feedback. If not you can simply asked Siri 
to turn voiceover. On for you.
> On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:55 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hello Scott.
> 
> I’ve have been following your advice on calibrating my battery as you know I 
> have the 6S Plus.
> 
> So I let the battery run down until there was no power left.  So now that the 
> phone has almost charged, I held the home and power button together.  Would 
> the phone have started as there was no feedback.  Please tell me if one is 
> meant to get Voice Over feedback.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 24 Oct 2015, at 06:19, joseph hudson  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Mark, yes that's exactly what Scott means.
>>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 2:16 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Scott,
>>> 
>>> I changed the Subject line to more accurately reflect our conversation.
>>> 
>>> Thank you ever so much for the tips on how to calibrate my iPhone battery.  
>>> 
>>> I will do exactly as you suggest.  
>>> 
>>> I have already rebooted the phone and I have forced a reset via
>>> simultaneously pressing both the Home and Power button until the device
>>> restarted by displaying the Apple Logo.
>>> 
>>> One question:
>>> 
>>> When you say "completely drain the battery", do you mean let the battery
>>> drain all the way down until the phone will no longer power on? Past all of
>>> the warnings?  
>>> 
>>> Thank you again,
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>>> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 5:27 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Mark on iOS 9.1, So Far
>>> 
>>> Mark, I think I can help you on the battery front.
>>> 
>>> I'm running the 6S+ with 9.1, a 6 with 9.1 and several iPads with 9.1.  When
>>> you first start out with a device the battery circuits need a bit of
>>> celebration.  It's not like the old days where a battery was just a battery.
>>> There's complex little circuits embedded in the batteries that actually
>>> control their discharge and manage their operation.  These need to calibrate
>>> and this is also why you should calibrate your phone once per month or so.
>>> Charge and fully discharge the phone a few times and you should see far
>>> better battery life.  Also, once you install the OS and the phone restarts,
>>> reboot it one time further.  Use the holding of the home and power buttons
>>> to accomplish this.  A restart after the phone initially boots has also
>>> helped me clear many a drain issue.  Once your new installs stabilize I
>>> think you'll find that your battery life has improved.  Let me know if this
>>> helps at all.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Scott
>>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 22, 2015, at 5:30 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
 
 Hello Everyone,
 
 Well, last night, I finally installed iOS 9.1 on my 6 Plus.
 
 For me, there are no proverbial show-stoppers.  
 
 1.
 However, given that I have been in an ongoing dialog with Apple 
 engineers, I am a little disappointed that the camera app zoom 
 VoiceOver bug still persist.  However, on a positive note, at least, 
 enabling VoiceOver, after zooming in on an image, no longer cancels the
>>> zoom.  Baby steps, eh?
 (smile).  
 
 2.
 I am surprised at how much I miss having the time announced when 
 waking the phone.
 
 3.
 Perhaps it's just me but I swear the quality of Samantha has been 
 greatly degraded in this version.  I just don't understand why, with 
 every major release since iOS 6.x, the quality of Samantha has been
>>> steadily declining.
 Of course, this is just my opinion.  What I do find interesting is 
 that Samantha's pronunciation of words that were absolutely correct in 
 iOS 8, has been changed and are now incorrect in iOS 9.1.
 
 In iOS 8.x, I found the high quality version of the Samantha voice 
 somewhat pleasant, in iOS 9.x, I find it unsettling, to say the least.  
 I cannot imagine having the current Samantha voice reading long 
 stretches of texts, whereas in the previous iOS, this would not have 
 even been at issue.  Is Apple trying to force everyone to Alex?  (Yes, a
>>> conspiracy theory).
 (Smile).   
 
 4.
 Also, the SMS Reply To dictation feedback problem is very, very annoying.
>>> 
 
 For those who disagree, let me say that I respect your opinion.  Also, 
 the feedback is not much of a problem if one dictates using either a 
 Bluetooth or wired headset.  I suppose it is not much of an issue if 
 one only dictates
 1 or 2 words.  However, if one attempts to dictate a full sentence, 
 then the feedback becomes problematic as a kind of feedback loop 
 ensues causing a great deal of random text to be inserted as Siri, 
 hearing VoiceOver, begins to dictate to 

Re: Navigating to End of Table

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Brandon,

They’ve switched the commands for Go to last visible Item and go to last Item 
in El Capitán.

Cheers,

Anne


> On 23 Oct 2015, at 22:31, Brandon A. Olivares (The Pianist) 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> In previous versions of OS X, you could use the end-of-window command 
> (vo-function-shift-right arrow) to navigate to the end of a table. However, 
> now, that simply takes me to the end of the page. There seems to be no easy 
> way of jumping to the end of a table, so that I can quickly navigate past it 
> to the rest of the page. Is there some new command, or way of doing this?
> 
> 
> --
> Anything is possible,
> Brandon Olivares
> 
> www.CoCreationCoaching.org 
> Create a life of infinite possibilities!
> 
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cocreationcoaching 
> 
> Twitter: https://twitter.com/coachcocreation 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[Chris Gilland]

You mention about them having other accessibility things than just Voiceover to 
deal with.  I’m curious if anyone on this list happens to therefore use Zoom 
either on OSX, or on I O S.  If so, I don’t have quite enough sight to use it 
on either, but I’m wondering in general how well it works, and how stable it is 
in El Capitan?  Which oh, my! I just noticed something.  In the latest version 
that just came out, 10.11.1, Alex finally says Capitan correctly.  Not really a 
major thing to be excited about, but still, it is one thing fixed.

That’s awesome!

Chris.

> On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
> 
> I agree, Mary, hence why they have their own team of accessibility engineers, 
> that *have* to work on 4 different operating systems, and work on not just 
> Voiceover. It makes me sick how many people think VoiceOver is the only 
> accessibility feature Apple has to work on at all times, so they expect 
> features to be 100% bug free upon release. Apple will get to the issues when 
> they get to them, so people just need to be patient, or report them every so 
> often to get them bumped up in the priority list, or don’t let the door hit 
> ya where the good lord split ya.
> 
>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:21 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Brian,
>> I'm not sure what you meant by higher ups. But I wouldn't expect the top 
>> management at a company like Apple to have much of a clue about details 
>> regarding accessibility. The real issue is quality control and whether or 
>> not the people implementing excess ability have a clue. If Tim Cook doesn't 
>> really understand all that much about how voiceover or assistive touch 
>> works, that really is good. He doesn't need to know that kind of thing.
>> Mary
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 6:13 PM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the heads up will be staying put on Yosemite for good now. 
>>> Captain and my experience was just awful real big step backwards as far as 
>>> accessibility. And I am not surprised as I met with someone from Apple 
>>> yesterday and was stunned to hear that none of the higher ups have a real 
>>> understanding of accessibility and with the lack of stability in Capitan 
>>> and VO I am not surprised.
 On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:40 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  
 wrote:
 
 My opinion is that unless you have a specific reason to move to El 
 Capitan, staying put will give you the better experience.  At this stage 
 I’d say the El Capitan experience is merely tolerable, but not great.  
 Responsiveness is a definite plus, and I have come to endure iBooks for 
 sheer lack of choice and find that I’m glad not to have to remove it every 
 time I update.  But other than that, it’s a bit meh, really.
 
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Re: MacKeeper class action suit garners refunds

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Pity they didn’t get a proper smackdown in your courts for that day’s work.

I block Zeobit, Krontek and MacKeeper domains at the border.  I consider that 
lot indistinguishable from malware purveyors.  This is truly unfortunate as 
they clearly aren’t actually true malware but have simply chosen an unethical 
business practice to scare people out of their money

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Re: MacKeeper class action suit garners refunds

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

That’s them.  Or one of their many unreliable partners who get serious 
commission for flogging that crap.

Here’s a rundown from The Safe Mac (who sadly have just been picked up by 
MalwareBytes):
http://www.thesafemac.com/ongoing-mackeeper-fraud/

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Re: Editing text in Safari with El Capitan: I think I found the solution.

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Well, thanks for confirming that at least it’s not just me, anyway.  I still 
regard this as serious breakage; no other text field behaves like that.  Indeed 
even in correctly-behaving text fields—say the one in Mail—one still has the 
focus tracking problem to deal with, but at least it’s possible to use VO and 
standard cursor navigation consistently and correctly.

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Re: MacKeeper class action suit garners refunds

[Michael Marshall]

i hated those popups, will they stop now do you think?
> On 24 Oct 2015, at 10:12 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> That’s them.  Or one of their many unreliable partners who get serious 
> commission for flogging that crap.
> 
> Here’s a rundown from The Safe Mac (who sadly have just been picked up by 
> MalwareBytes):
> http://www.thesafemac.com/ongoing-mackeeper-fraud/
> 
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Re: MacKeeper class action suit garners refunds

[Eric Oyen]

just added them to my firewall. this way, I can't get to them and they can't 
get to me. :)

btw, I use Waterroof as my firewall interface on my OS X Lion system. Its a 
little tricky getting used to at first, but with a little time and some 
reading, it becomes the app of choice for us.

-eric

On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:07 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote:

> Pity they didn’t get a proper smackdown in your courts for that day’s work.
> 
> I block Zeobit, Krontek and MacKeeper domains at the border.  I consider that 
> lot indistinguishable from malware purveyors.  This is truly unfortunate as 
> they clearly aren’t actually true malware but have simply chosen an unethical 
> business practice to scare people out of their money
> 
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Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Notice though that El Capitan is not pronounced correctly on iOS 9.1, just 
released. :)

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Re: Editing text in Safari with El Capitan: I think I found the solution.

[Alex Hall]

What's the problem? Aside from a click each time I move the cursor, and new 
lines not being spoken, I've not seen editing problems in Safari. I've 
certainly not seen problems of any kind in non-Safari text fields. Is this 
related to Quick Nav? I never use that, so that's the only thing I can think of.
> On Oct 24, 2015, at 07:56, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> See... I wonder if Apple actually intended to make it this way.  I agree 
> totally with you that it's a bit awquard, and you might even be correct to go 
> as far as saying it's a broken bug.  It's kind of hard to say.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Sabahattin Gucukoglu" 
> To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" 
> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 7:29 AM
> Subject: Re: Editing text in Safari with El Capitan: I think I found the 
> solution.
> 
> 
> Well, thanks for confirming that at least it’s not just me, anyway.  I still 
> regard this as serious breakage; no other text field behaves like that. 
> Indeed even in correctly-behaving text fields—say the one in Mail—one still 
> has the focus tracking problem to deal with, but at least it’s possible to 
> use VO and standard cursor navigation consistently and correctly.
> 
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Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com

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Re: Editing text in Safari with El Capitan: I think I found the solution.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

See... I wonder if Apple actually intended to make it this way.  I agree 
totally with you that it's a bit awquard, and you might even be correct to 
go as far as saying it's a broken bug.  It's kind of hard to say.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Sabahattin Gucukoglu" 

To: "'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries" 
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: Editing text in Safari with El Capitan: I think I found the 
solution.



Well, thanks for confirming that at least it’s not just me, anyway.  I still 
regard this as serious breakage; no other text field behaves like that. 
Indeed even in correctly-behaving text fields—say the one in Mail—one still 
has the focus tracking problem to deal with, but at least it’s possible to 
use VO and standard cursor navigation consistently and correctly.


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Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility.  They may not 
know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and importance.  
Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest products for his 
admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his engineers.  If Steve Jobs 
could understand what made Apple products great, then so can his underlings, 
past and future.

As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that may 
be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality 
control.  We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using 
VoiceOver.  Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver the 
quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not.  To these 
people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view that we 
should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what we 
deserve.  I am one of these people.  I want and expect VoiceOver to be 
indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear 
that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business 
pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not just 
for an initial release either.  I would prefer not to move to Windows, but if I 
did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy was 
untenable.

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Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[Brian Fischler]

Very well put Sabahattin. Agreed with everything you said. Just because we use 
VO we should not be afraid to call Apple out on bugs especially when they keep 
getting worse and worse. Why should I feel I should have to settle for 
mediocrity with just because I am a VO user.I still feel Apple is doing it 
better than anyone, but there is definitely room for a lot of improvement.
> On Oct 24, 2015, at 2:28 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility.  They may 
> not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and 
> importance.  Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest 
> products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his 
> engineers.  If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, 
> then so can his underlings, past and future.
> 
> As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that 
> may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality 
> control.  We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using 
> VoiceOver.  Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver 
> the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not.  To 
> these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view 
> that we should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what 
> we deserve.  I am one of these people.  I want and expect VoiceOver to be 
> indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear 
> that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business 
> pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not 
> just for an initial release either.  I would prefer not to move to Windows, 
> but if I did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy 
> was untenable.
> 
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Re: MacKeeper class action suit garners refunds

[Michael Marshall]

are they the fools who make those stupid popups that come up on some sites and 
say stuff like
Your mac is infected with spyware?
how stupid do they think we are?
> On 24 Oct 2015, at 7:03 PM, Eric Oyen  wrote:
> 
> just added them to my firewall. this way, I can't get to them and they can't 
> get to me. :)
> 
> btw, I use Waterroof as my firewall interface on my OS X Lion system. Its a 
> little tricky getting used to at first, but with a little time and some 
> reading, it becomes the app of choice for us.
> 
> -eric
> 
> On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:07 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote:
> 
>> Pity they didn’t get a proper smackdown in your courts for that day’s work.
>> 
>> I block Zeobit, Krontek and MacKeeper domains at the border.  I consider 
>> that lot indistinguishable from malware purveyors.  This is truly 
>> unfortunate as they clearly aren’t actually true malware but have simply 
>> chosen an unethical business practice to scare people out of their money
>> 
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Editing text in Safari with El Capitan: I think I found the solution.

[Chris Gilland]

OK guys, before I start writing this, let me throw in two disclamers.  NO, I 
take that back.  Let me throw in three! disclaimers.

1.  I am running the most up to date build of OSX 10.11.1, not just 10.11.  
Further, I’m not on any type of beta.  This is the official build.

2.  I have updated Safari to the newest version which came out just the other 
day along with 10.11.1.

And finally, 3.  This works for me, but realize that there is a possibility 
based on user configuration that this won’t work for everyone, so don’t jump 
down my throat if my description doesn’t work for you.

OK, business out of the way, here is what I just posted on my Facebook wall, 
word per word.  This is an exact paste which I typed up regarding this 
situation.

OK guys, so I'm trying to edit things in this text field with El Capitan on my 
mac in combination with Voiceover.  A lot of people have been complaining that 
it's impossible to do with Safari.  I'm finding that it actually is working for 
me.  OK, it's a little bit weird how it's doing it, and I think Apple needs to 
look into that, as it's a bit nonintuitive, but hey! at least it's now doable.  
Basically, as soon as you start moving your insertion point, it seems to then 
automatically interact you with the text area.  Actually, this is kind of neet, 
as I can then not only move word by word with option+left and right arrows, but 
I also can move word by word with VO+left and right arrow, given that I indeed 
*am* interacting with the text area.  I'll bet that if I used vo+up and down 
arrows, which I practically hardly ever do in the first place, why, I don't 
know, but that's neither here nor there, but anyway, I bet if I did so, I even 
could move line by line through the text.  Now, as for how that would work with 
Voiceover reading what the cursor passes over?  I have no idea.  I can't stand 
Voiceover working that way.  I've gone into the VO Utility and have changed 
that out under the Navigation category to where Voiceover reads what is under 
the cursor rather than what it passes.  I'd suspect that doing it the other way 
would probably be reliable, but right now, I don't have a very good way of 
testing this out.  It's definitely a very different way of working online with 
text fields, but it seems to me that this is what's going on, for those who may 
be a little bit confused.  I think it will take some time to get used to, yes, 
no doubt, as anything new will, but I think if you can learn to get used to it, 
then I could see this potentially as actually being kind of cool.  Thoughts?

Chris.

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Re: What's the word with the update for El Capitan and VO

[Devin Prater]

I know Apple can do well. I've seen it a lot in iOS. But we just have bugs upon 
bugs to deal with, and I'm just not sure what the quality control people do 
with accessibility. For example, right now there is a bug in iOS where if you 
use a bluetooth keyboard and arrow arround, and you hit a space, it won't say 
space at all. Sure, the smallest of bugs, but it still makes Apple look sloppy, 
just like Google. Google has had this problem with Docs for ages, but 
everywhere else Apple is wonderful, but they're starting to fail at 
accessibility.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:28 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> I don’t agree that executives shouldn’t know about accessibility.  They may 
> not know the details, but they ought to understand the urgency and 
> importance.  Steve Jobs was once the CEO of Apple and he demoed the latest 
> products for his admiring audience; he didn’t palm the job off to his 
> engineers.  If Steve Jobs could understand what made Apple products great, 
> then so can his underlings, past and future.
> 
> As for the comment that VoiceOver is merely one part of accessibility, that 
> may be completely accurate, but it’s irrelevant to a discussion about quality 
> control.  We are the customers and we expect a great experience while using 
> VoiceOver.  Perhaps you accept that a mainstream company can never deliver 
> the quality expected of an accessibility company, but others might not.  To 
> these people, Apple’s offering is inferior and you are endorsing the view 
> that we should merely be grateful for an inferior alternative instead of what 
> we deserve.  I am one of these people.  I want and expect VoiceOver to be 
> indistinguishable in quality from fully-paid Windows screen readers, and fear 
> that Apple’s internalising of VoiceOver puts it under unwelcome business 
> pressures that adversely affect us, particularly in recent times, and not 
> just for an initial release either.  I would prefer not to move to Windows, 
> but if I did, it would only because I finally accepted that Apple’s strategy 
> was untenable.
> 
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