Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - CNET

[Oriol Gómez]

Prizmo Go is the best OCR App I've seen so far. I don't care about
Samsung because I've tried out their phones and didn't like them that
much, besides they use old galaxy talkback, etc etc. They just want a
medal for accessibility that they haven't earned.

On 6/27/17, David Chittenden  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I wonder if it might encourage Apple if it is brought to their attention
> that the latest Samsung 8 smartphone has OCR built-in. After all, the
> companies do compete with each other.
>
> Until OCR is brought native, there is KNFB Reader (for a significant cost),
> or Prizmo Go (for no cost) with much of KNFB's accessibility, equivalent
> OCR, but not as much overall flexibility. Though, with a small cost, Prizmo
> Go's capabilities expand significantly.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 27/06/2017, at 14:23, E.T.  wrote:
>>
>>   Sure but then you also need to follow up and direct this feedback to
>> Apple where it can be acted upon ne way or another. It may well come to
>> pass some day where we can carry in one hand a device that can truly do it
>> all. Maybe we need to wait for a 128bit iPhone. Next year? 5 years from
>> now?
>>
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>
>>> On 6/26/2017 8:17 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
>>> G, you can't even express disappointment with one feature without the
>>> world falling in on you. I said and maintained that I'm disappointed with
>>> the fact that apple didn't include OCR with that scanning feature.
>>> They're doing some good things for PDF on Mac this time out, finally. So
>>> I was hoping the trend will continue for OS 11. I'm sure there will be
>>> other good things, and I suppose it's possible, although I think think
>>> doubtful, that a major thing like OCR would be added during the process
>>> of The beta cycle.
>>> Mary
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
 On Jun 26, 2017, at 6:56 PM, E.T.  wrote:

 Mary,
  Why not just wait and see how iOS 11 develops into a mature OS? You are
 basing your sentiments on one article written by a sighted person. Its
 simply way too early to be disappointed.

  Maybe I am too pragmatic for my own good. And I bet the bible thumpers
 are already gearing up to proclaim the end is coming on August 21st.
 (smiles)

  Point is, the end is not coming, and iOS 11 will certainly make some
 people crazy when they lose their old 32bit apps. But I expect there
 will be some wonderful new things for us too.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

> On 6/26/2017 6:43 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
> Gary, I think your way out of line here. I think they do care about
> accessibility. I know they have an accessibility team. And they're
> still ahead of the other side of the fence in some very important ways,
> at least for me. Why do you think I still use my iPhone for most all of
> my email?
> Mary
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 26, 2017, at 5:58 PM, gary-melconian 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Mary, you are forgetting, apple does not care about you any more. They
>> will build product charge an darm and a leg . fi you want it you wwill
>> buy it if not then you wont. That’s the attitude of apple lately. So I
>> wold not bbe surprised that they will not bother to work on
>> accessibility any more. Wahthe point if they are to get a few
>> customrers  to upgrade in the long run.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:06 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the
>> iPhone - CNET
>>
>> Well, if I'm understanding this correctly, I have to say I'm
>> disappointed about the scanning in the PDF. Yet another excuse to have
>> a not editable text in a PDF file. Very sad. Apple, if you care about
>> excess ability, you'll change this.
>> Mary
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jun 26, 2017, at 4:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>>
>>> CNET News - Monday, June 26, 2017 at 1:01 PM iOS 11 public beta:
>>> What
>>> it does for the iPhone - CNET The iPhone 8 could end up being an
>>> 

Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - CNET

[David Chittenden]

Hello,

I wonder if it might encourage Apple if it is brought to their attention that 
the latest Samsung 8 smartphone has OCR built-in. After all, the companies do 
compete with each other.

Until OCR is brought native, there is KNFB Reader (for a significant cost), or 
Prizmo Go (for no cost) with much of KNFB's accessibility, equivalent OCR, but 
not as much overall flexibility. Though, with a small cost, Prizmo Go's 
capabilities expand significantly.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 27/06/2017, at 14:23, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Sure but then you also need to follow up and direct this feedback to Apple 
> where it can be acted upon ne way or another. It may well come to pass some 
> day where we can carry in one hand a device that can truly do it all. Maybe 
> we need to wait for a 128bit iPhone. Next year? 5 years from now?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 6/26/2017 8:17 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> G, you can't even express disappointment with one feature without the world 
>> falling in on you. I said and maintained that I'm disappointed with the fact 
>> that apple didn't include OCR with that scanning feature. They're doing some 
>> good things for PDF on Mac this time out, finally. So I was hoping the trend 
>> will continue for OS 11. I'm sure there will be other good things, and I 
>> suppose it's possible, although I think think doubtful, that a major thing 
>> like OCR would be added during the process of The beta cycle.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 26, 2017, at 6:56 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mary,
>>>  Why not just wait and see how iOS 11 develops into a mature OS? You are 
>>> basing your sentiments on one article written by a sighted person. Its 
>>> simply way too early to be disappointed.
>>> 
>>>  Maybe I am too pragmatic for my own good. And I bet the bible thumpers are 
>>> already gearing up to proclaim the end is coming on August 21st. (smiles)
>>> 
>>>  Point is, the end is not coming, and iOS 11 will certainly make some 
>>> people crazy when they lose their old 32bit apps. But I expect there will 
>>> be some wonderful new things for us too.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 6/26/2017 6:43 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
 Gary, I think your way out of line here. I think they do care about 
 accessibility. I know they have an accessibility team. And they're still 
 ahead of the other side of the fence in some very important ways, at least 
 for me. Why do you think I still use my iPhone for most all of my email?
 Mary
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Jun 26, 2017, at 5:58 PM, gary-melconian  
> wrote:
> 
> Mary, you are forgetting, apple does not care about you any more. They 
> will build product charge an darm and a leg . fi you want it you wwill 
> buy it if not then you wont. That’s the attitude of apple lately. So I 
> wold not bbe surprised that they will not bother to work on accessibility 
> any more. Wahthe point if they are to get a few customrers  to upgrade in 
> the long run.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:06 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the 
> iPhone - CNET
> 
> Well, if I'm understanding this correctly, I have to say I'm disappointed 
> about the scanning in the PDF. Yet another excuse to have a not editable 
> text in a PDF file. Very sad. Apple, if you care about excess ability, 
> you'll change this.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 26, 2017, at 4:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> CNET News - Monday, June 26, 2017 at 1:01 PM iOS 11 public beta: What
>> it does for the iPhone - CNET The iPhone 8 could end up being an
>> amazing, transformative 10th-anniversary iPhone. At first glance, iOS
>> 11 doesn't seem quite so ambitious. It's more of a series of targeted
>> upgrades, with some of them being downright fantastic.
>> Apple's newest version of its operating system for iPhones and iPads
>> doesn't formally arrive until later this year, but it's here in public
>> beta form now. You can install it on your 

Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - CNET

[Oriol Gómez]

They didn't include OCR? Didn't you read applevis comments on
accessibility feature where you can scan images to get a description
and read text?

Seriously guys

On 6/27/17, E.T.  wrote:
> Sure but then you also need to follow up and direct this feedback to
> Apple where it can be acted upon ne way or another. It may well come to
> pass some day where we can carry in one hand a device that can truly do
> it all. Maybe we need to wait for a 128bit iPhone. Next year? 5 years
> from now?
>
>  From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>"God for you is where you sweep away all the
>mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>
> On 6/26/2017 8:17 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> G, you can't even express disappointment with one feature without the
>> world falling in on you. I said and maintained that I'm disappointed with
>> the fact that apple didn't include OCR with that scanning feature. They're
>> doing some good things for PDF on Mac this time out, finally. So I was
>> hoping the trend will continue for OS 11. I'm sure there will be other
>> good things, and I suppose it's possible, although I think think doubtful,
>> that a major thing like OCR would be added during the process of The beta
>> cycle.
>> Mary
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jun 26, 2017, at 6:56 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>>
>>> Mary,
>>>   Why not just wait and see how iOS 11 develops into a mature OS? You are
>>> basing your sentiments on one article written by a sighted person. Its
>>> simply way too early to be disappointed.
>>>
>>>   Maybe I am too pragmatic for my own good. And I bet the bible thumpers
>>> are already gearing up to proclaim the end is coming on August 21st.
>>> (smiles)
>>>
>>>   Point is, the end is not coming, and iOS 11 will certainly make some
>>> people crazy when they lose their old 32bit apps. But I expect there will
>>> be some wonderful new things for us too.
>>>
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>>
 On 6/26/2017 6:43 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
 Gary, I think your way out of line here. I think they do care about
 accessibility. I know they have an accessibility team. And they're still
 ahead of the other side of the fence in some very important ways, at
 least for me. Why do you think I still use my iPhone for most all of my
 email?
 Mary


 Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 26, 2017, at 5:58 PM, gary-melconian 
> wrote:
>
> Mary, you are forgetting, apple does not care about you any more. They
> will build product charge an darm and a leg . fi you want it you wwill
> buy it if not then you wont. That’s the attitude of apple lately. So I
> wold not bbe surprised that they will not bother to work on
> accessibility any more. Wahthe point if they are to get a few
> customrers  to upgrade in the long run.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:06 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the
> iPhone - CNET
>
> Well, if I'm understanding this correctly, I have to say I'm
> disappointed about the scanning in the PDF. Yet another excuse to have
> a not editable text in a PDF file. Very sad. Apple, if you care about
> excess ability, you'll change this.
> Mary
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 26, 2017, at 4:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>
>> CNET News - Monday, June 26, 2017 at 1:01 PM iOS 11 public beta: What
>> it does for the iPhone - CNET The iPhone 8 could end up being an
>> amazing, transformative 10th-anniversary iPhone. At first glance, iOS
>> 11 doesn't seem quite so ambitious. It's more of a series of targeted
>> upgrades, with some of them being downright fantastic.
>> Apple's newest version of its operating system for iPhones and iPads
>> doesn't formally arrive until later this year, but it's here in
>> public
>> beta form now. You can install it on your own iPads and iPhones, if
>> you dare. Don't do so on your primary device, however, only
>> experiment
>> with it on a secondary device, and be ready for plenty of bugs. Betas
>> do weird things sometimes and App Store apps aren't optimized for it
>> yet anyway.
>> I've already been using it for a few days, testing it on an iPhone 7
>> Plus (for this story) and a new 10.5-inch iPad Pro (to see all the
>> 

Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - CNET

[E.T.]

   Sure but then you also need to follow up and direct this feedback to 
Apple where it can be acted upon ne way or another. It may well come to 
pass some day where we can carry in one hand a device that can truly do 
it all. Maybe we need to wait for a 128bit iPhone. Next year? 5 years 
from now?


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/26/2017 8:17 PM, Mary Otten wrote:

G, you can't even express disappointment with one feature without the world 
falling in on you. I said and maintained that I'm disappointed with the fact 
that apple didn't include OCR with that scanning feature. They're doing some 
good things for PDF on Mac this time out, finally. So I was hoping the trend 
will continue for OS 11. I'm sure there will be other good things, and I 
suppose it's possible, although I think think doubtful, that a major thing like 
OCR would be added during the process of The beta cycle.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 26, 2017, at 6:56 PM, E.T.  wrote:

Mary,
  Why not just wait and see how iOS 11 develops into a mature OS? You are 
basing your sentiments on one article written by a sighted person. Its simply 
way too early to be disappointed.

  Maybe I am too pragmatic for my own good. And I bet the bible thumpers are 
already gearing up to proclaim the end is coming on August 21st. (smiles)

  Point is, the end is not coming, and iOS 11 will certainly make some people 
crazy when they lose their old 32bit apps. But I expect there will be some 
wonderful new things for us too.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com


On 6/26/2017 6:43 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
Gary, I think your way out of line here. I think they do care about 
accessibility. I know they have an accessibility team. And they're still ahead 
of the other side of the fence in some very important ways, at least for me. 
Why do you think I still use my iPhone for most all of my email?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 26, 2017, at 5:58 PM, gary-melconian  wrote:

Mary, you are forgetting, apple does not care about you any more. They will 
build product charge an darm and a leg . fi you want it you wwill buy it if not 
then you wont. That’s the attitude of apple lately. So I wold not bbe surprised 
that they will not bother to work on accessibility any more. Wahthe point if 
they are to get a few customrers  to upgrade in the long run.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:06 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - 
CNET

Well, if I'm understanding this correctly, I have to say I'm disappointed about 
the scanning in the PDF. Yet another excuse to have a not editable text in a 
PDF file. Very sad. Apple, if you care about excess ability, you'll change this.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 26, 2017, at 4:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:

CNET News - Monday, June 26, 2017 at 1:01 PM iOS 11 public beta: What
it does for the iPhone - CNET The iPhone 8 could end up being an
amazing, transformative 10th-anniversary iPhone. At first glance, iOS
11 doesn't seem quite so ambitious. It's more of a series of targeted
upgrades, with some of them being downright fantastic.
Apple's newest version of its operating system for iPhones and iPads
doesn't formally arrive until later this year, but it's here in public
beta form now. You can install it on your own iPads and iPhones, if
you dare. Don't do so on your primary device, however, only experiment
with it on a secondary device, and be ready for plenty of bugs. Betas
do weird things sometimes and App Store apps aren't optimized for it yet anyway.
I've already been using it for a few days, testing it on an iPhone 7
Plus (for this story) and a new 10.5-inch iPad Pro (to see all the
extra features it adds on the iPad). With the caveat that this is a
beta -- and not a feature-complete one at that -- here are my first impressions.
The killer features:
You can pluck the best shots from Live Photos When Live Photos first
launched in 2015, they seemed clever but gimmicky. My brother-in-law
asked me back then, can Live Photo pick another shot to grab a moment
you thought you missed? It couldn't before, but it can now. Editing a
Live Photo now allows any of the shots to become the "primary photo."
Missed your kid's smile? Maybe you didn't. It's now a time machine for
snapshots and a backup plan. I'm never turning it off after the iOS 11
upgrade. Added 

Please Join Me in Requesting That The New Streamline User Interface, for the iOS Twitter App be Made VoiceOver Accessible.

[M. Taylor]

Hello Everyone,

I am cross-posting this to both the V iPhone and Mac Visionaries mailing
list.

Recently, Twitter introduced a new, streamline, user interface in its iOS
mobile app.

In the latest version of Twitter Mobile for iOS, if VoiceOver is not enabled
prior to launching the app, the new streamline user interface, is displayed.


However, if VoiceOver is enabled, prior to launching the app, the display
reverts back to the classic interface.

Further, if VoiceOver is not enabled, prior to launching the app, then is
enabled after the app is open, a dialogue box appears recommending that the
user close and re-open the app with VoiceOver running, for best results.

I have tested the new interface with VoiceOver enabled and it is completely
accessible.  So, effectively, all Twitter needs to do is to allow the new
streamline UI to be the default interface when VoiceOver is running, at
launch.

Please join me in requesting that the new streamline UI be the default
interface when VoiceOver is enabled.

The following is a short request that you are free to use in your feedback
to Twitter:

[BEGIN REQUEST]
Subject:
Request to Make the New iOS Twitter App Streamline User Interface VoiceOver
Accessible

Hello,  

Please make the new iOS Twitter app streamline user interface accessible and
the default UI when VoiceOver, Apple's software screen reading solution for
the blind and low vision, is enabled.

Thank you,
[END REQUEST]

The following is my Tweet on this matter:
[BEGIN TWEET]:
Please make the new #iOS @Twitter app, streamline user interface,
#accessible to the #VisuallyImpaired, via #VoiceOver. Thank you. @Support
[END TWEET]

Post your request in the App Store, as a review, send a tweet to both
@support and @Twitter, and Submit a formal request to Twitter via the
feedback form located at:
https://support.twitter.com/forms/feature_report?feature=tweets.

As always, thank you for your support and I'll see you on Twitter at:
@MarkMarcus.

Mark

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Playing an HTML in QuickTime and/or iTunes

[Angus MacKinnon]

Jonathan
I mainly want to forward the HTML file which is a stream from a Radio Station 
from my ElCapitan iMac to a AirPlay Speaker.

Angus MacKinnon

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
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To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - CNET

[Mary Otten]

G, you can't even express disappointment with one feature without the world 
falling in on you. I said and maintained that I'm disappointed with the fact 
that apple didn't include OCR with that scanning feature. They're doing some 
good things for PDF on Mac this time out, finally. So I was hoping the trend 
will continue for OS 11. I'm sure there will be other good things, and I 
suppose it's possible, although I think think doubtful, that a major thing like 
OCR would be added during the process of The beta cycle.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 26, 2017, at 6:56 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Mary,
>   Why not just wait and see how iOS 11 develops into a mature OS? You are 
> basing your sentiments on one article written by a sighted person. Its simply 
> way too early to be disappointed.
> 
>   Maybe I am too pragmatic for my own good. And I bet the bible thumpers are 
> already gearing up to proclaim the end is coming on August 21st. (smiles)
> 
>   Point is, the end is not coming, and iOS 11 will certainly make some people 
> crazy when they lose their old 32bit apps. But I expect there will be some 
> wonderful new things for us too.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 6/26/2017 6:43 PM, Mary Otten wrote:
>> Gary, I think your way out of line here. I think they do care about 
>> accessibility. I know they have an accessibility team. And they're still 
>> ahead of the other side of the fence in some very important ways, at least 
>> for me. Why do you think I still use my iPhone for most all of my email?
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 26, 2017, at 5:58 PM, gary-melconian  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mary, you are forgetting, apple does not care about you any more. They will 
>>> build product charge an darm and a leg . fi you want it you wwill buy it if 
>>> not then you wont. That’s the attitude of apple lately. So I wold not bbe 
>>> surprised that they will not bother to work on accessibility any more. 
>>> Wahthe point if they are to get a few customrers  to upgrade in the long 
>>> run.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>>> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:06 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone 
>>> - CNET
>>> 
>>> Well, if I'm understanding this correctly, I have to say I'm disappointed 
>>> about the scanning in the PDF. Yet another excuse to have a not editable 
>>> text in a PDF file. Very sad. Apple, if you care about excess ability, 
>>> you'll change this.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jun 26, 2017, at 4:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
 
 CNET News - Monday, June 26, 2017 at 1:01 PM iOS 11 public beta: What
 it does for the iPhone - CNET The iPhone 8 could end up being an
 amazing, transformative 10th-anniversary iPhone. At first glance, iOS
 11 doesn't seem quite so ambitious. It's more of a series of targeted
 upgrades, with some of them being downright fantastic.
 Apple's newest version of its operating system for iPhones and iPads
 doesn't formally arrive until later this year, but it's here in public
 beta form now. You can install it on your own iPads and iPhones, if
 you dare. Don't do so on your primary device, however, only experiment
 with it on a secondary device, and be ready for plenty of bugs. Betas
 do weird things sometimes and App Store apps aren't optimized for it yet 
 anyway.
 I've already been using it for a few days, testing it on an iPhone 7
 Plus (for this story) and a new 10.5-inch iPad Pro (to see all the
 extra features it adds on the iPad). With the caveat that this is a
 beta -- and not a feature-complete one at that -- here are my first 
 impressions.
 The killer features:
 You can pluck the best shots from Live Photos When Live Photos first
 launched in 2015, they seemed clever but gimmicky. My brother-in-law
 asked me back then, can Live Photo pick another shot to grab a moment
 you thought you missed? It couldn't before, but it can now. Editing a
 Live Photo now allows any of the shots to become the "primary photo."
 Missed your kid's smile? Maybe you didn't. It's now a time machine for
 snapshots and a backup plan. I'm never turning it off after the iOS 11
 upgrade. Added GIF-like loop effects and a nice long exposure trick
 are great too, but nothing beats editable shots.
 
 Pick your best shot.
 Sarah Tew/CNET
 A one-page Control Center
 The iPhone's handy swipe-up panel sprawled into a weird multi-page
 monster 

Re: Playing an HTML in QuickTime and/or iTunes

[Jonathan Cohn]

Generally files that end in "html" are not sound files but are text based web 
pages. 

Are you trying to save a copy of a html document as verbal speech of the text?

If this web page has a sound track included in it, and you want to retrieve 
that, then this is probably possible it is a matter of finding the multimedia 
references and then downloading just that item to your computer.


Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Jun 26, 2017, at 10:41 PM, Angus MacKinnon  wrote:
> 
> On my El Capitan iMac, I play 
> file:///Users/madkinnon/Downloads/Listen%20Live%20to%20Original%20106.html 
>  
> in Safari. Can 
> file:///Users/madkinnon/Downloads/Listen%20Live%20to%20Original%20106.html 
>  
> be played in QuickTime and/or itunes? Thank you.
> 
> Angus MacKinnon
> 
> 
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Re: Just for kicks

[Jonathan Cohn]

Yeah the "say" command just causes the speech synthesizer to speak. The dollar 
left parenthesis is used to start another command line and have it placed on 
the same line as the current text. The end of that command is marked with a 
right parentheses. 

if you type 
say Hello Paul 
Your computer will speak 
Hello Paul


You can also use say to speak a file. This is essentially what save spoken text 
to iTunes script does.

Also of interest when playing with the say commands is that the Apple's Speech 
Synthesizer can take commands by putting them on a single line enclosed in 
brackets. There are commands for speed and pitch and there might even be a way 
to change voice mid-stream using these commands. I haven't seen any references 
to doing this in about five years, but I would be highly surprised if that 
functionality got removed.


Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Jun 26, 2017, at 9:27 PM, Sharon Hooley  wrote:
> 
> I have a little background in programming, but not this much.  I just want to 
> make sure, from the rest of this group, that it is safe.  If so, I’d like to 
> try it!
> 
> Thanks for sharing,
> 
>> On Jun 26, 2017, at 5:50 PM, -dan d.  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Try each of these terminal commands in turn.  Cut and paste when in terminal 
>> and hit enter.
>> 
>> say -v daniel $(date +"%A %m-%d")
>> 
>> say -v daniel $(date  +"%I:%M %p")
>> 
>> Change "daniel" to a voice of your choice and do it again.
>> 
>> XB
>> XB
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: Installer not talking on my iMac

[Tim Kilburn]

Perfect.  Thanks for the additional info.  I will see if I can duplicate it 
tomorrow with one of those models of iMac.  I have some at work, not with the 
SSD, but that shouldn't make any difference.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 26, 2017, at 15:53, David Griffith  wrote:

No I don’t think you are right here.
 
VO is speaking perfectly normally during the first part of the install under 
recovery console- that is the part which works with Fred and I have no 
difficulties here.
 
You only lose speech at the point when after downloading  Sierra and installing 
the Mac reboots and you enter the setup wizard for the user entering  Sierra 
for the first time.
 
So volume is fine and Voiceover works perfectly for the first part of the 
install  with Fred under Recovery Console and works perfectly  with Daniel 
after the install has completed after the reboot.
 
It is during the crucial stage that you are having to enter details like 
keyboard and Region , your Apple id and password and icloud details  and reject 
options for keychain etc under Sierra setup that I am having problems. . It is 
during this part of the install setup  only that Voiceover for some reason 
completely disappears apart from providing a silent text echo on the screen of 
what you should be hearing.
 
This has happened to me twice now and is clearly not what is supposed to happen.
 
It appears that this problem is only affecting iMacs  and the Siera OS for some 
reason.
 
The only thing I would add which may suggest a local problem  is that twice now 
my Sierra iMac has dumped me into recovery console after a normal reboot with 
no option to boot normally back into my Sierra OS. I am trapped  with only the 
option to re-install OS. As the Recovery Console only offers Yosemite this 
means I have had to overwrite Sierra with Yosemite twice now and then 
re-download Sierra and install again on top of Yosemite.
This is all very time consuming.
Incidentally the Yosemite setup remains perfectly accessible from start to 
finish. This is only an issue when I apply the Sierra upgrade. If it happens 
one more time I guess I might just give up on Sierra.
 
My iMac is a 2011 model with 256gb SSD and 16GB Ram  including an upgrade to 
what was then the highest processor speed available so it should be able to 
cope.
 
David Griffith
 
 
 
 
From: Tim Kilburn 
Sent: 26 June 2017 15:54
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: Installer not talking on my iMac
 
Hi David,
 
Your assertion that it has nothing to do with muting or volume level is not 
necessarily valid.  The base system that is part of the installers and the 
Recovery system accesses resources differently than the regular MacOS.  So, if 
VO is behaving normally after the installation has finished, then it is 
accessing the full suite of system resources.  The base system has a limited 
set of settings as you can affirm by the limited functionality of VO in general.
 
This is not to minimize your frustration, just to clarify things a little.
 
Later...
 
Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada 
 
On Jun 26, 2017, at 07:40, David Griffith > wrote:
 
I I am not sure if my message got through yesterday.
 
However I have had exactly the same issue on my iMac with  installing Sierra.
 
I have installed loads of OS versions before without issue before coming up 
against this accessibility barrier.
Voiceover only comes to life after the Sierra installer has completed. Sighted 
help was telling me that every time I pressed command F5 Voiceover on would  
appear as text on screen but no sound would emerge. This has nothing to do with 
muting or volume  levels as everything suddenly reverts to normal Voiceover 
feedback as soon as the installer finishes.
 
I contacted Appole Accessibility about this but they pretty much dismissed my 
concerns by claiming that I was the only person who had ever reported this as 
an issue.
 
So if others are experiencing the same issue on their  iMacs then I would urge 
you to report it to Appole Accessibility and perhaps they will take it 
seriously and investigate.
 
 
David Griffith
 
Sent from Mail  for Windows 10
 
From: Nickus de Vos 
Sent: 25 June 2017 12:00
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Installer not talking on my iMac
 
Hi all
I had to format and install a clean copy of Sierra for a friend over the 
weekend and thought while I have the installer on a USB flash drive I might as 
well do my iMac as well, since I’ve been wanting to do a clean install for a 
while.
 
Everything worked as expected on my friends MBP and I did the clean install for 
him, Voiceover talked me through the entire process as expected. However this 
morning when I wanted 

Playing an HTML in QuickTime and/or iTunes

[Angus MacKinnon]

On my El Capitan iMac, I play 
file:///Users/madkinnon/Downloads/Listen%20Live%20to%20Original%20106.html 
 in 
Safari. Can 
file:///Users/madkinnon/Downloads/Listen%20Live%20to%20Original%20106.html 
 be 
played in QuickTime and/or itunes? Thank you.

Angus MacKinnon

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Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - CNET

[Jonathan Cohn]

This was one sighted person describing what they found in the new beta. Just 
because accessibility wasn't mentioned doesn't mean that nothing was added to 
accessibility.

I did catch something on the keynote that I have heard nobody talk about.

Specifically indoor navigation with support for several malls and airports. I 
highly expect Tysons Cornerr, a mall that is only two miles from my house , to 
be a good candidate. Not only is the mall packed every weekend and most 
evenings, it was also the site of the first Apple Retail store. So I am hoping 
that the indoor navigation helps me verify if I have passed Nordstroms or still 
have  200 feet to go. 

Best Wishes,

Jonathan

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Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - CNET

[E.T.]

Mary,
   Why not just wait and see how iOS 11 develops into a mature OS? You 
are basing your sentiments on one article written by a sighted person. 
Its simply way too early to be disappointed.


   Maybe I am too pragmatic for my own good. And I bet the bible 
thumpers are already gearing up to proclaim the end is coming on August 
21st. (smiles)


   Point is, the end is not coming, and iOS 11 will certainly make some 
people crazy when they lose their old 32bit apps. But I expect there 
will be some wonderful new things for us too.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/26/2017 6:43 PM, Mary Otten wrote:

Gary, I think your way out of line here. I think they do care about 
accessibility. I know they have an accessibility team. And they're still ahead 
of the other side of the fence in some very important ways, at least for me. 
Why do you think I still use my iPhone for most all of my email?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 26, 2017, at 5:58 PM, gary-melconian  wrote:

Mary, you are forgetting, apple does not care about you any more. They will 
build product charge an darm and a leg . fi you want it you wwill buy it if not 
then you wont. That’s the attitude of apple lately. So I wold not bbe surprised 
that they will not bother to work on accessibility any more. Wahthe point if 
they are to get a few customrers  to upgrade in the long run.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:06 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - 
CNET

Well, if I'm understanding this correctly, I have to say I'm disappointed about 
the scanning in the PDF. Yet another excuse to have a not editable text in a 
PDF file. Very sad. Apple, if you care about excess ability, you'll change this.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 26, 2017, at 4:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:

CNET News - Monday, June 26, 2017 at 1:01 PM iOS 11 public beta: What
it does for the iPhone - CNET The iPhone 8 could end up being an
amazing, transformative 10th-anniversary iPhone. At first glance, iOS
11 doesn't seem quite so ambitious. It's more of a series of targeted
upgrades, with some of them being downright fantastic.
Apple's newest version of its operating system for iPhones and iPads
doesn't formally arrive until later this year, but it's here in public
beta form now. You can install it on your own iPads and iPhones, if
you dare. Don't do so on your primary device, however, only experiment
with it on a secondary device, and be ready for plenty of bugs. Betas
do weird things sometimes and App Store apps aren't optimized for it yet anyway.
I've already been using it for a few days, testing it on an iPhone 7
Plus (for this story) and a new 10.5-inch iPad Pro (to see all the
extra features it adds on the iPad). With the caveat that this is a
beta -- and not a feature-complete one at that -- here are my first impressions.
The killer features:
You can pluck the best shots from Live Photos When Live Photos first
launched in 2015, they seemed clever but gimmicky. My brother-in-law
asked me back then, can Live Photo pick another shot to grab a moment
you thought you missed? It couldn't before, but it can now. Editing a
Live Photo now allows any of the shots to become the "primary photo."
Missed your kid's smile? Maybe you didn't. It's now a time machine for
snapshots and a backup plan. I'm never turning it off after the iOS 11
upgrade. Added GIF-like loop effects and a nice long exposure trick
are great too, but nothing beats editable shots.

Pick your best shot.
Sarah Tew/CNET
A one-page Control Center
The iPhone's handy swipe-up panel sprawled into a weird multi-page
monster with iOS 10, but it fits on one pane in iOS 11. New features
are added, too, and shortcuts to key apps can be added or removed like
widgets. Nice adds are Notes, Voice Memo and a great Apple TV remote
tool built-in. I can keep my lost Apple TV remote wedged in the sofa
permanently. Still, it could have added even more. Control Center
doesn't use 3D Touch as much as I thought it would to deep-dive further in 
settings. But, hey, it's progress.

Control Center has sub-sections, now.
Sarah Tew/CNET
Screen recording
It's not going to be for everyone, but it's so easy to start recording
what you do on your iPhone, even add voice-over commentary and share as a video.
How-to videos and self-help sites are going to benefit tremendously.
Maybe I'd use this to show my mom how to adjust her phone settings the
next time she calls -- I could just email the video.
Marking up (almost) anything
The next time you want to share what you see on your iPhone (or 

Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - CNET

[lenron brown]

ha I still use my computer for all of my email. Just because for me it
feels nicer. Hmm can't wait to check out this beta.

On 6/26/17, Mary Otten  wrote:
> Gary, I think your way out of line here. I think they do care about
> accessibility. I know they have an accessibility team. And they're still
> ahead of the other side of the fence in some very important ways, at least
> for me. Why do you think I still use my iPhone for most all of my email?
> Mary
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 26, 2017, at 5:58 PM, gary-melconian 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Mary, you are forgetting, apple does not care about you any more. They
>> will build product charge an darm and a leg . fi you want it you wwill buy
>> it if not then you wont. That’s the attitude of apple lately. So I wold
>> not bbe surprised that they will not bother to work on accessibility any
>> more. Wahthe point if they are to get a few customrers  to upgrade in the
>> long run.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:06 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone
>> - CNET
>>
>> Well, if I'm understanding this correctly, I have to say I'm disappointed
>> about the scanning in the PDF. Yet another excuse to have a not editable
>> text in a PDF file. Very sad. Apple, if you care about excess ability,
>> you'll change this.
>> Mary
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jun 26, 2017, at 4:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>>
>>> CNET News - Monday, June 26, 2017 at 1:01 PM iOS 11 public beta: What
>>> it does for the iPhone - CNET The iPhone 8 could end up being an
>>> amazing, transformative 10th-anniversary iPhone. At first glance, iOS
>>> 11 doesn't seem quite so ambitious. It's more of a series of targeted
>>> upgrades, with some of them being downright fantastic.
>>> Apple's newest version of its operating system for iPhones and iPads
>>> doesn't formally arrive until later this year, but it's here in public
>>> beta form now. You can install it on your own iPads and iPhones, if
>>> you dare. Don't do so on your primary device, however, only experiment
>>> with it on a secondary device, and be ready for plenty of bugs. Betas
>>> do weird things sometimes and App Store apps aren't optimized for it yet
>>> anyway.
>>> I've already been using it for a few days, testing it on an iPhone 7
>>> Plus (for this story) and a new 10.5-inch iPad Pro (to see all the
>>> extra features it adds on the iPad). With the caveat that this is a
>>> beta -- and not a feature-complete one at that -- here are my first
>>> impressions.
>>> The killer features:
>>> You can pluck the best shots from Live Photos When Live Photos first
>>> launched in 2015, they seemed clever but gimmicky. My brother-in-law
>>> asked me back then, can Live Photo pick another shot to grab a moment
>>> you thought you missed? It couldn't before, but it can now. Editing a
>>> Live Photo now allows any of the shots to become the "primary photo."
>>> Missed your kid's smile? Maybe you didn't. It's now a time machine for
>>> snapshots and a backup plan. I'm never turning it off after the iOS 11
>>> upgrade. Added GIF-like loop effects and a nice long exposure trick
>>> are great too, but nothing beats editable shots.
>>>
>>> Pick your best shot.
>>> Sarah Tew/CNET
>>> A one-page Control Center
>>> The iPhone's handy swipe-up panel sprawled into a weird multi-page
>>> monster with iOS 10, but it fits on one pane in iOS 11. New features
>>> are added, too, and shortcuts to key apps can be added or removed like
>>> widgets. Nice adds are Notes, Voice Memo and a great Apple TV remote
>>> tool built-in. I can keep my lost Apple TV remote wedged in the sofa
>>> permanently. Still, it could have added even more. Control Center
>>> doesn't use 3D Touch as much as I thought it would to deep-dive further
>>> in settings. But, hey, it's progress.
>>>
>>> Control Center has sub-sections, now.
>>> Sarah Tew/CNET
>>> Screen recording
>>> It's not going to be for everyone, but it's so easy to start recording
>>> what you do on your iPhone, even add voice-over commentary and share as a
>>> video.
>>> How-to videos and self-help sites are going to benefit tremendously.
>>> Maybe I'd use this to show my mom how to adjust her phone settings the
>>> next time she calls -- I could just email the video.
>>> Marking up (almost) anything
>>> The next time you want to share what you see on your iPhone (or iPad),
>>> remember that screenshots (home plus the power button together) now
>>> launch a markup tool that lets you scribble or highlight anything.
>>> Well, almost anything... movies and protected videos ended up blacked
>>> out (on iOS 10, that doesn't happen). Circle a weird comment, add a note
>>> with your finger.
>>> Safari has a "markup as PDF" feature that 

Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - CNET

[Mary Otten]

Gary, I think your way out of line here. I think they do care about 
accessibility. I know they have an accessibility team. And they're still ahead 
of the other side of the fence in some very important ways, at least for me. 
Why do you think I still use my iPhone for most all of my email?  
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 26, 2017, at 5:58 PM, gary-melconian  wrote:
> 
> Mary, you are forgetting, apple does not care about you any more. They will 
> build product charge an darm and a leg . fi you want it you wwill buy it if 
> not then you wont. That’s the attitude of apple lately. So I wold not bbe 
> surprised that they will not bother to work on accessibility any more. Wahthe 
> point if they are to get a few customrers  to upgrade in the long run.  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:06 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - 
> CNET
> 
> Well, if I'm understanding this correctly, I have to say I'm disappointed 
> about the scanning in the PDF. Yet another excuse to have a not editable text 
> in a PDF file. Very sad. Apple, if you care about excess ability, you'll 
> change this.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 26, 2017, at 4:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> CNET News - Monday, June 26, 2017 at 1:01 PM iOS 11 public beta: What 
>> it does for the iPhone - CNET The iPhone 8 could end up being an 
>> amazing, transformative 10th-anniversary iPhone. At first glance, iOS 
>> 11 doesn't seem quite so ambitious. It's more of a series of targeted 
>> upgrades, with some of them being downright fantastic.
>> Apple's newest version of its operating system for iPhones and iPads 
>> doesn't formally arrive until later this year, but it's here in public 
>> beta form now. You can install it on your own iPads and iPhones, if 
>> you dare. Don't do so on your primary device, however, only experiment 
>> with it on a secondary device, and be ready for plenty of bugs. Betas 
>> do weird things sometimes and App Store apps aren't optimized for it yet 
>> anyway.
>> I've already been using it for a few days, testing it on an iPhone 7 
>> Plus (for this story) and a new 10.5-inch iPad Pro (to see all the 
>> extra features it adds on the iPad). With the caveat that this is a 
>> beta -- and not a feature-complete one at that -- here are my first 
>> impressions.
>> The killer features:
>> You can pluck the best shots from Live Photos When Live Photos first 
>> launched in 2015, they seemed clever but gimmicky. My brother-in-law 
>> asked me back then, can Live Photo pick another shot to grab a moment 
>> you thought you missed? It couldn't before, but it can now. Editing a 
>> Live Photo now allows any of the shots to become the "primary photo."
>> Missed your kid's smile? Maybe you didn't. It's now a time machine for 
>> snapshots and a backup plan. I'm never turning it off after the iOS 11 
>> upgrade. Added GIF-like loop effects and a nice long exposure trick 
>> are great too, but nothing beats editable shots.
>> 
>> Pick your best shot.
>> Sarah Tew/CNET
>> A one-page Control Center
>> The iPhone's handy swipe-up panel sprawled into a weird multi-page 
>> monster with iOS 10, but it fits on one pane in iOS 11. New features 
>> are added, too, and shortcuts to key apps can be added or removed like 
>> widgets. Nice adds are Notes, Voice Memo and a great Apple TV remote 
>> tool built-in. I can keep my lost Apple TV remote wedged in the sofa 
>> permanently. Still, it could have added even more. Control Center 
>> doesn't use 3D Touch as much as I thought it would to deep-dive further in 
>> settings. But, hey, it's progress.
>> 
>> Control Center has sub-sections, now.
>> Sarah Tew/CNET
>> Screen recording
>> It's not going to be for everyone, but it's so easy to start recording 
>> what you do on your iPhone, even add voice-over commentary and share as a 
>> video.
>> How-to videos and self-help sites are going to benefit tremendously. 
>> Maybe I'd use this to show my mom how to adjust her phone settings the 
>> next time she calls -- I could just email the video.
>> Marking up (almost) anything
>> The next time you want to share what you see on your iPhone (or iPad), 
>> remember that screenshots (home plus the power button together) now 
>> launch a markup tool that lets you scribble or highlight anything. 
>> Well, almost anything... movies and protected videos ended up blacked 
>> out (on iOS 10, that doesn't happen). Circle a weird comment, add a note 
>> with your finger.
>> Safari has a "markup as PDF" feature that does the same thing. It'll 
>> be great for Twitter or Facebook. In a similar vein, PDFs are easy to 
>> make and even add signatures to.
>> A built-in scanner in Notes
>> Apple's Notes app keeps getting serious upgrades, 

Re: Just for kicks

[Matthew Dierckens]

Hi, those commands  announce the time and the date.

God bless.
Matthew Dierckens
Certified Assistive Technology Specialist
Macintosh, IOS  and Windows Trainer
JAWS for windows Certified - 2016
Canadian Phone: 519-962-9140
U.S. phone: 573-401-1018
Personal Email: matt.dierck...@me.com

> On Jun 26, 2017, at 21:27, Sharon Hooley  wrote:
> 
> I have a little background in programming, but not this much.  I just want to 
> make sure, from the rest of this group, that it is safe.  If so, I’d like to 
> try it!
> 
> Thanks for sharing,
> 
>> On Jun 26, 2017, at 5:50 PM, -dan d.  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Try each of these terminal commands in turn.  Cut and paste when in terminal 
>> and hit enter.
>> 
>> say -v daniel $(date +"%A %m-%d")
>> 
>> say -v daniel $(date  +"%I:%M %p")
>> 
>> Change "daniel" to a voice of your choice and do it again.
>> 
>> XB
>> XB
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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Re: Just for kicks

[Sharon Hooley]

I have a little background in programming, but not this much.  I just want to 
make sure, from the rest of this group, that it is safe.  If so, I’d like to 
try it!

Thanks for sharing,

> On Jun 26, 2017, at 5:50 PM, -dan d.  wrote:
> 
> 
> Try each of these terminal commands in turn.  Cut and paste when in terminal 
> and hit enter.
> 
>  say -v daniel $(date +"%A %m-%d")
> 
>  say -v daniel $(date  +"%I:%M %p")
> 
>  Change "daniel" to a voice of your choice and do it again.
> 
>  XB
> XB
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - CNET

[E.T.]

   There is always that greener grass on the other side of the fence.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/26/2017 5:58 PM, gary-melconian wrote:

Mary, you are forgetting, apple does not care about you any more. They will 
build product charge an darm and a leg . fi you want it you wwill buy it if not 
then you wont. That’s the attitude of apple lately. So I wold not bbe surprised 
that they will not bother to work on accessibility any more. Wahthe point if 
they are to get a few customrers  to upgrade in the long run.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:06 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - 
CNET

Well, if I'm understanding this correctly, I have to say I'm disappointed about 
the scanning in the PDF. Yet another excuse to have a not editable text in a 
PDF file. Very sad. Apple, if you care about excess ability, you'll change this.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 26, 2017, at 4:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:

CNET News - Monday, June 26, 2017 at 1:01 PM iOS 11 public beta: What
it does for the iPhone - CNET The iPhone 8 could end up being an
amazing, transformative 10th-anniversary iPhone. At first glance, iOS
11 doesn't seem quite so ambitious. It's more of a series of targeted
upgrades, with some of them being downright fantastic.
Apple's newest version of its operating system for iPhones and iPads
doesn't formally arrive until later this year, but it's here in public
beta form now. You can install it on your own iPads and iPhones, if
you dare. Don't do so on your primary device, however, only experiment
with it on a secondary device, and be ready for plenty of bugs. Betas
do weird things sometimes and App Store apps aren't optimized for it yet anyway.
I've already been using it for a few days, testing it on an iPhone 7
Plus (for this story) and a new 10.5-inch iPad Pro (to see all the
extra features it adds on the iPad). With the caveat that this is a
beta -- and not a feature-complete one at that -- here are my first impressions.
The killer features:
You can pluck the best shots from Live Photos When Live Photos first
launched in 2015, they seemed clever but gimmicky. My brother-in-law
asked me back then, can Live Photo pick another shot to grab a moment
you thought you missed? It couldn't before, but it can now. Editing a
Live Photo now allows any of the shots to become the "primary photo."
Missed your kid's smile? Maybe you didn't. It's now a time machine for
snapshots and a backup plan. I'm never turning it off after the iOS 11
upgrade. Added GIF-like loop effects and a nice long exposure trick
are great too, but nothing beats editable shots.

Pick your best shot.
Sarah Tew/CNET
A one-page Control Center
The iPhone's handy swipe-up panel sprawled into a weird multi-page
monster with iOS 10, but it fits on one pane in iOS 11. New features
are added, too, and shortcuts to key apps can be added or removed like
widgets. Nice adds are Notes, Voice Memo and a great Apple TV remote
tool built-in. I can keep my lost Apple TV remote wedged in the sofa
permanently. Still, it could have added even more. Control Center
doesn't use 3D Touch as much as I thought it would to deep-dive further in 
settings. But, hey, it's progress.

Control Center has sub-sections, now.
Sarah Tew/CNET
Screen recording
It's not going to be for everyone, but it's so easy to start recording
what you do on your iPhone, even add voice-over commentary and share as a video.
How-to videos and self-help sites are going to benefit tremendously.
Maybe I'd use this to show my mom how to adjust her phone settings the
next time she calls -- I could just email the video.
Marking up (almost) anything
The next time you want to share what you see on your iPhone (or iPad),
remember that screenshots (home plus the power button together) now
launch a markup tool that lets you scribble or highlight anything.
Well, almost anything... movies and protected videos ended up blacked
out (on iOS 10, that doesn't happen). Circle a weird comment, add a note with 
your finger.
Safari has a "markup as PDF" feature that does the same thing. It'll
be great for Twitter or Facebook. In a similar vein, PDFs are easy to
make and even add signatures to.
A built-in scanner in Notes
Apple's Notes app keeps getting serious upgrades, pushing it further
into Evernote country. Tables can be added in iOS 11, and there's also
a scanning tool to add receipts or other documents. It does a pretty
good job stretching and evening out off-angle scans, but it doesn't
convert into editable text.

One-handed keyboard!
Sarah Tew/CNET
Some other things to try:

RE: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - CNET

[gary-melconian]

Mary, you are forgetting, apple does not care about you any more. They will 
build product charge an darm and a leg . fi you want it you wwill buy it if not 
then you wont. That’s the attitude of apple lately. So I wold not bbe surprised 
that they will not bother to work on accessibility any more. Wahthe point if 
they are to get a few customrers  to upgrade in the long run.  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 5:06 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - 
CNET

Well, if I'm understanding this correctly, I have to say I'm disappointed about 
the scanning in the PDF. Yet another excuse to have a not editable text in a 
PDF file. Very sad. Apple, if you care about excess ability, you'll change this.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 26, 2017, at 4:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> CNET News - Monday, June 26, 2017 at 1:01 PM iOS 11 public beta: What 
> it does for the iPhone - CNET The iPhone 8 could end up being an 
> amazing, transformative 10th-anniversary iPhone. At first glance, iOS 
> 11 doesn't seem quite so ambitious. It's more of a series of targeted 
> upgrades, with some of them being downright fantastic.
> Apple's newest version of its operating system for iPhones and iPads 
> doesn't formally arrive until later this year, but it's here in public 
> beta form now. You can install it on your own iPads and iPhones, if 
> you dare. Don't do so on your primary device, however, only experiment 
> with it on a secondary device, and be ready for plenty of bugs. Betas 
> do weird things sometimes and App Store apps aren't optimized for it yet 
> anyway.
> I've already been using it for a few days, testing it on an iPhone 7 
> Plus (for this story) and a new 10.5-inch iPad Pro (to see all the 
> extra features it adds on the iPad). With the caveat that this is a 
> beta -- and not a feature-complete one at that -- here are my first 
> impressions.
> The killer features:
> You can pluck the best shots from Live Photos When Live Photos first 
> launched in 2015, they seemed clever but gimmicky. My brother-in-law 
> asked me back then, can Live Photo pick another shot to grab a moment 
> you thought you missed? It couldn't before, but it can now. Editing a 
> Live Photo now allows any of the shots to become the "primary photo."
> Missed your kid's smile? Maybe you didn't. It's now a time machine for 
> snapshots and a backup plan. I'm never turning it off after the iOS 11 
> upgrade. Added GIF-like loop effects and a nice long exposure trick 
> are great too, but nothing beats editable shots.
> 
> Pick your best shot.
> Sarah Tew/CNET
> A one-page Control Center
> The iPhone's handy swipe-up panel sprawled into a weird multi-page 
> monster with iOS 10, but it fits on one pane in iOS 11. New features 
> are added, too, and shortcuts to key apps can be added or removed like 
> widgets. Nice adds are Notes, Voice Memo and a great Apple TV remote 
> tool built-in. I can keep my lost Apple TV remote wedged in the sofa 
> permanently. Still, it could have added even more. Control Center 
> doesn't use 3D Touch as much as I thought it would to deep-dive further in 
> settings. But, hey, it's progress.
> 
> Control Center has sub-sections, now.
> Sarah Tew/CNET
> Screen recording
> It's not going to be for everyone, but it's so easy to start recording 
> what you do on your iPhone, even add voice-over commentary and share as a 
> video.
> How-to videos and self-help sites are going to benefit tremendously. 
> Maybe I'd use this to show my mom how to adjust her phone settings the 
> next time she calls -- I could just email the video.
> Marking up (almost) anything
> The next time you want to share what you see on your iPhone (or iPad), 
> remember that screenshots (home plus the power button together) now 
> launch a markup tool that lets you scribble or highlight anything. 
> Well, almost anything... movies and protected videos ended up blacked 
> out (on iOS 10, that doesn't happen). Circle a weird comment, add a note with 
> your finger.
> Safari has a "markup as PDF" feature that does the same thing. It'll 
> be great for Twitter or Facebook. In a similar vein, PDFs are easy to 
> make and even add signatures to.
> A built-in scanner in Notes
> Apple's Notes app keeps getting serious upgrades, pushing it further 
> into Evernote country. Tables can be added in iOS 11, and there's also 
> a scanning tool to add receipts or other documents. It does a pretty 
> good job stretching and evening out off-angle scans, but it doesn't 
> convert into editable text.
> 
> One-handed keyboard!
> Sarah Tew/CNET
> Some other things to try:
> Siri sounds different and can translate Siri is supposed to be 
> somewhat smarter now. I didn't see a giant boost yet, but Siri 
> definitely sounds different. The "more 

Re: Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - CNET

[Mary Otten]

Well, if I'm understanding this correctly, I have to say I'm disappointed about 
the scanning in the PDF. Yet another excuse to have a not editable text in a 
PDF file. Very sad. Apple, if you care about excess ability, you'll change this.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 26, 2017, at 4:26 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> CNET News - Monday, June 26, 2017 at 1:01 PM
> iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - CNET
> The iPhone 8 could end up being an amazing, transformative 10th-anniversary
> iPhone. At first glance, iOS 11 doesn't seem quite so ambitious. It's more
> of a series of targeted upgrades, with some of them being downright
> fantastic. 
> Apple's newest version of its operating system for iPhones and iPads doesn't
> formally arrive until later this year, but it's here in public beta form
> now. You can install it on your own iPads and iPhones, if you dare. Don't do
> so on your primary device, however, only experiment with it on a secondary
> device, and be ready for plenty of bugs. Betas do weird things sometimes and
> App Store apps aren't optimized for it yet anyway.
> I've already been using it for a few days, testing it on an iPhone 7 Plus
> (for this story) and a new 10.5-inch iPad Pro (to see all the extra features
> it adds on the iPad). With the caveat that this is a beta -- and not a
> feature-complete one at that -- here are my first impressions.
> The killer features:
> You can pluck the best shots from Live Photos
> When Live Photos first launched in 2015, they seemed clever but gimmicky. My
> brother-in-law asked me back then, can Live Photo pick another shot to grab
> a moment you thought you missed? It couldn't before, but it can now. Editing
> a Live Photo now allows any of the shots to become the "primary photo."
> Missed your kid's smile? Maybe you didn't. It's now a time machine for
> snapshots and a backup plan. I'm never turning it off after the iOS 11
> upgrade. Added GIF-like loop effects and a nice long exposure trick are
> great too, but nothing beats editable shots.
> 
> Pick your best shot.
> Sarah Tew/CNET 
> A one-page Control Center
> The iPhone's handy swipe-up panel sprawled into a weird multi-page monster
> with iOS 10, but it fits on one pane in iOS 11. New features are added, too,
> and shortcuts to key apps can be added or removed like widgets. Nice adds
> are Notes, Voice Memo and a great Apple TV remote tool built-in. I can keep
> my lost Apple TV remote wedged in the sofa permanently. Still, it could have
> added even more. Control Center doesn't use 3D Touch as much as I thought it
> would to deep-dive further in settings. But, hey, it's progress.
> 
> Control Center has sub-sections, now.
> Sarah Tew/CNET 
> Screen recording
> It's not going to be for everyone, but it's so easy to start recording what
> you do on your iPhone, even add voice-over commentary and share as a video.
> How-to videos and self-help sites are going to benefit tremendously. Maybe
> I'd use this to show my mom how to adjust her phone settings the next time
> she calls -- I could just email the video.
> Marking up (almost) anything
> The next time you want to share what you see on your iPhone (or iPad),
> remember that screenshots (home plus the power button together) now launch a
> markup tool that lets you scribble or highlight anything. Well, almost
> anything... movies and protected videos ended up blacked out (on iOS 10,
> that doesn't happen). Circle a weird comment, add a note with your finger.
> Safari has a "markup as PDF" feature that does the same thing. It'll be
> great for Twitter or Facebook. In a similar vein, PDFs are easy to make and
> even add signatures to.
> A built-in scanner in Notes
> Apple's Notes app keeps getting serious upgrades, pushing it further into
> Evernote country. Tables can be added in iOS 11, and there's also a scanning
> tool to add receipts or other documents. It does a pretty good job
> stretching and evening out off-angle scans, but it doesn't convert into
> editable text.
> 
> One-handed keyboard!
> Sarah Tew/CNET 
> Some other things to try:
> Siri sounds different and can translate
> Siri is supposed to be somewhat smarter now. I didn't see a giant boost yet,
> but Siri definitely sounds different. The "more natural" style actually
> threw me off a bit. Siri's nicest new feature is instant audio translation
> into French, German, Italian, Mandarin Chinese and Spanish. It's in beta --
> so be wary of relying on it in a serious setting -- but it's nice to have at
> a quick button press. (Google Translate is still my go-to, though.)
> One-handed keyboards
> A little iOS 11 trick is to press and hold the "emoji" button in the
> keyboard to get a new left- or right-hand-squished keyboard optimized for
> one-handed typing. It's reminiscent of the old compressed keyboard on the
> iPhone SE.
> The Files app
> There's now a place to consolidate folders and apps locally or in cloud
> accounts. It's taking some getting used 

Just for kicks

[-dan d.]

Try each of these terminal commands in turn.  Cut and paste when in 
terminal and hit enter.


  say -v daniel $(date +"%A %m-%d")

  say -v daniel $(date  +"%I:%M %p")

  Change "daniel" to a voice of your choice and do it again.

  XB
XB

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
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Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Full Article: iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - CNET

[M. Taylor]

CNET News - Monday, June 26, 2017 at 1:01 PM
iOS 11 public beta: What it does for the iPhone - CNET
The iPhone 8 could end up being an amazing, transformative 10th-anniversary
iPhone. At first glance, iOS 11 doesn't seem quite so ambitious. It's more
of a series of targeted upgrades, with some of them being downright
fantastic. 
Apple's newest version of its operating system for iPhones and iPads doesn't
formally arrive until later this year, but it's here in public beta form
now. You can install it on your own iPads and iPhones, if you dare. Don't do
so on your primary device, however, only experiment with it on a secondary
device, and be ready for plenty of bugs. Betas do weird things sometimes and
App Store apps aren't optimized for it yet anyway.
I've already been using it for a few days, testing it on an iPhone 7 Plus
(for this story) and a new 10.5-inch iPad Pro (to see all the extra features
it adds on the iPad). With the caveat that this is a beta -- and not a
feature-complete one at that -- here are my first impressions.
The killer features:
You can pluck the best shots from Live Photos
When Live Photos first launched in 2015, they seemed clever but gimmicky. My
brother-in-law asked me back then, can Live Photo pick another shot to grab
a moment you thought you missed? It couldn't before, but it can now. Editing
a Live Photo now allows any of the shots to become the "primary photo."
Missed your kid's smile? Maybe you didn't. It's now a time machine for
snapshots and a backup plan. I'm never turning it off after the iOS 11
upgrade. Added GIF-like loop effects and a nice long exposure trick are
great too, but nothing beats editable shots.
 
Pick your best shot.
Sarah Tew/CNET 
A one-page Control Center
The iPhone's handy swipe-up panel sprawled into a weird multi-page monster
with iOS 10, but it fits on one pane in iOS 11. New features are added, too,
and shortcuts to key apps can be added or removed like widgets. Nice adds
are Notes, Voice Memo and a great Apple TV remote tool built-in. I can keep
my lost Apple TV remote wedged in the sofa permanently. Still, it could have
added even more. Control Center doesn't use 3D Touch as much as I thought it
would to deep-dive further in settings. But, hey, it's progress.
 
Control Center has sub-sections, now.
Sarah Tew/CNET 
Screen recording
It's not going to be for everyone, but it's so easy to start recording what
you do on your iPhone, even add voice-over commentary and share as a video.
How-to videos and self-help sites are going to benefit tremendously. Maybe
I'd use this to show my mom how to adjust her phone settings the next time
she calls -- I could just email the video.
Marking up (almost) anything
The next time you want to share what you see on your iPhone (or iPad),
remember that screenshots (home plus the power button together) now launch a
markup tool that lets you scribble or highlight anything. Well, almost
anything... movies and protected videos ended up blacked out (on iOS 10,
that doesn't happen). Circle a weird comment, add a note with your finger.
Safari has a "markup as PDF" feature that does the same thing. It'll be
great for Twitter or Facebook. In a similar vein, PDFs are easy to make and
even add signatures to.
A built-in scanner in Notes
Apple's Notes app keeps getting serious upgrades, pushing it further into
Evernote country. Tables can be added in iOS 11, and there's also a scanning
tool to add receipts or other documents. It does a pretty good job
stretching and evening out off-angle scans, but it doesn't convert into
editable text.
 
One-handed keyboard!
Sarah Tew/CNET 
Some other things to try:
Siri sounds different and can translate
Siri is supposed to be somewhat smarter now. I didn't see a giant boost yet,
but Siri definitely sounds different. The "more natural" style actually
threw me off a bit. Siri's nicest new feature is instant audio translation
into French, German, Italian, Mandarin Chinese and Spanish. It's in beta --
so be wary of relying on it in a serious setting -- but it's nice to have at
a quick button press. (Google Translate is still my go-to, though.)
One-handed keyboards
A little iOS 11 trick is to press and hold the "emoji" button in the
keyboard to get a new left- or right-hand-squished keyboard optimized for
one-handed typing. It's reminiscent of the old compressed keyboard on the
iPhone SE.
The Files app
There's now a place to consolidate folders and apps locally or in cloud
accounts. It's taking some getting used to in the beta, but it's finally a
central place to dump your stuff. But, so far, I found I couldn't just
instantly make folders on my iPhone without putting them into pre-existing
folders... which is disappointing.
Portrait mode for 7 Plus gets flash/HDR/effects
Extra camera modes mean Portrait mode's bokeh-type effects can be used in
more situations.
'Do Not Disturb While Driving'
At long last, iPhones have a new filter to remove messages while driving.
It's a more targeted variation of 

Apple's iOS 11 public beta is now available - CNET

[M. Taylor]

CNET News - Monday, June 26, 2017 at 1:18 PM
Apple's iOS 11 public beta is now available - CNET
 
Sarah Tew/CNET 
It's the tenth anniversary week of the iPhone, and it's also the release of
the iOS 11 public beta, which is now available.
Much like last year, the public version of the beta software is a chance for
everyone to download and experiment with what is very much a pre-release
version of the software that's coming in the fall.
A warning, however: we recommend you don't install the iOS 11 public beta on
your main device. Use a secondary device if you have one, or at at least
fully back up your iPhone or iPad before experimenting. 
We tested the public beta out on an iPhone 7 Plus and a 10.5-inch iPad Pro,
but your experience may vary greatly depending on your hardware. Read the
below impressions for all the details on what to try out, should you
download.
iOS 11 on the iPad Pro: its best features
iOS 11 on the iPhone: things to try
https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-ios-11-public-beta-is-now-available-iphone-i
pad/#ftag=CAD590a51e


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RE: Installer not talking on my iMac

[David Griffith]

No I don’t think you are right here.

VO is speaking perfectly normally during the first part of the install under 
recovery console- that is the part which works with Fred and I have no 
difficulties here.

You only lose speech at the point when after downloading  Sierra and installing 
the Mac reboots and you enter the setup wizard for the user entering  Sierra 
for the first time.

So volume is fine and Voiceover works perfectly for the first part of the 
install  with Fred under Recovery Console and works perfectly  with Daniel 
after the install has completed after the reboot.

It is during the crucial stage that you are having to enter details like 
keyboard and Region , your Apple id and password and icloud details  and reject 
options for keychain etc under Sierra setup that I am having problems. . It is 
during this part of the install setup  only that Voiceover for some reason 
completely disappears apart from providing a silent text echo on the screen of 
what you should be hearing.

This has happened to me twice now and is clearly not what is supposed to happen.

It appears that this problem is only affecting iMacs  and the Siera OS for some 
reason.

The only thing I would add which may suggest a local problem  is that twice now 
my Sierra iMac has dumped me into recovery console after a normal reboot with 
no option to boot normally back into my Sierra OS. I am trapped  with only the 
option to re-install OS. As the Recovery Console only offers Yosemite this 
means I have had to overwrite Sierra with Yosemite twice now and then 
re-download Sierra and install again on top of Yosemite.
This is all very time consuming.
Incidentally the Yosemite setup remains perfectly accessible from start to 
finish. This is only an issue when I apply the Sierra upgrade. If it happens 
one more time I guess I might just give up on Sierra.

My iMac is a 2011 model with 256gb SSD and 16GB Ram  including an upgrade to 
what was then the highest processor speed available so it should be able to 
cope.

David Griffith




From: Tim Kilburn
Sent: 26 June 2017 15:54
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Installer not talking on my iMac

Hi David,

Your assertion that it has nothing to do with muting or volume level is not 
necessarily valid.  The base system that is part of the installers and the 
Recovery system accesses resources differently than the regular MacOS.  So, if 
VO is behaving normally after the installation has finished, then it is 
accessing the full suite of system resources.  The base system has a limited 
set of settings as you can affirm by the limited functionality of VO in general.

This is not to minimize your frustration, just to clarify things a little.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada 

On Jun 26, 2017, at 07:40, David Griffith  wrote:

    I I am not sure if my message got through yesterday.
 
However I have had exactly the same issue on my iMac with  installing Sierra.
 
I have installed loads of OS versions before without issue before coming up 
against this accessibility barrier.
Voiceover only comes to life after the Sierra installer has completed. Sighted 
help was telling me that every time I pressed command F5 Voiceover on would  
appear as text on screen but no sound would emerge. This has nothing to do with 
muting or volume  levels as everything suddenly reverts to normal Voiceover 
feedback as soon as the installer finishes.
 
I contacted Appole Accessibility about this but they pretty much dismissed my 
concerns by claiming that I was the only person who had ever reported this as 
an issue.
 
So if others are experiencing the same issue on their  iMacs then I would urge 
you to report it to Appole Accessibility and perhaps they will take it 
seriously and investigate.
 
 
David Griffith
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: 25 June 2017 12:00
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Installer not talking on my iMac
 
Hi all
I had to format and install a clean copy of Sierra for a friend over the 
weekend and thought while I have the installer on a USB flash drive I might as 
well do my iMac as well, since I’ve been wanting to do a clean install for a 
while.
 
Everything worked as expected on my friends MBP and I did the clean install for 
him, Voiceover talked me through the entire process as expected. However this 
morning when I wanted to do my iMac, Voiceover simply didn’t want to start 
during the installation process no matter what I tried.
For reference I then inserted the USB drive with the installer in to my Macbook 
Pro and booted in to it and Voiceover started just fine, but nothing happens on 
my iMac.
 
Anyone had this happen to them before, any ideas or solutions?
My iMac is a late 2013 model running Sierra, my friends MBP which Voiceover 
worked on during installation is a mid 2012 and my MBP is a mid 2015 Retina.
 
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Re: Safari Busy

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Sorry for the late answer.
I use voiceover.
I don’t know anything about how to install chromevox and have never needed to 
do that but i think i will try it out.
/A
> 22 juni 2017 kl. 23:34 skrev Mike Arrigo :
> 
> When using chrome, do you use voiceover or chromevox? I find the access with 
> voiceover similar in both browsers, but there are times when chromevox will 
> allow access to a site that voiceover has a problem with.
>> On Jun 22, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> That’s pretty much my use case as well.  If Safari chokes on a site chrome 
>> usually gets it done and vise versa.  Also, there are times when things on 
>> safari aren’t accessible but more controls and features are available on 
>> chrome.
>> 
>> 
>> On the windows side I used to use Firefox as well as a third option but on 
>> the Mac have been pretty much a safari and chrome user.
>> 
>>> On Jun 21, 2017, at 4:35 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Actually, Chrome works very well on a Mac.  It handles Google Apps services 
>>> slightly better than Safari does.  It works well with VO, as in things like 
>>> the Item Chooser and other web-router items work fairly well in it.  I swap 
>>> back and forth between the two quite often when certain sites are not 
>>> behaving themselves in either browser.  Many sighted users in our schools 
>>> also switch back and forth when something is not cooperating.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Jun 21, 2017, at 14:25, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It's an android browser, and not relevant if you're using a Mac.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jun 21, 2017, at 1:19 PM, Ray Foret jr  wrote:
>>> 
 I will not touch Google Crome:  but, what is this here thing called 
 Lightning Browser?  I reckon it’s accessible?
 
 
 Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
 built-in
 
 Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
 
 Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
 iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!
 
> On Jun 21, 2017, at 2:15 PM, Anders Holmberg  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Have you tried with lightning webbrowser or google chrome?
> /A
>> 21 juni 2017 kl. 16:48 skrev Ray Foret jr :
>> 
>> Well, one thing’s for sure.  You can forget 
>> www.walmart.com
>> 
>> With the Mac, the site is totally impossible to log in to.  You get 
>> stuck and cannot go anywhere.
>> 
>> You actually have to force quit Safari to be able to do anything with it 
>> at all afterward.
>> 
>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the 
>> blind built-in
>> 
>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>> 
>> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
>> iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!
>> 
>>> On Jun 21, 2017, at 5:27 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I use Safari. On rare occasions I'll get busy messages that make a page 
>>> hard to use, but it's uncommon enough that I don't really worry about 
>>> it. That said, I've heard plenty of people say they experience what you 
>>> do. I have no idea why this happens to some and not others. All I can 
>>> suggest is to contact Apple about it, maybe with some system diagnostic 
>>> files. When Safari is busy, hit cmd-option-control-shift-period. After 
>>> a few minutes, you'll be placed in a Finder window where you'll find 
>>> the file you want to send along.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Alex Hall
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 20, 2017, at 22:29, Nimer Jaber  wrote:
 
 Hello,
 
 I am wondering which browser all of you use? I often experience Safari 
 saying busy, busy, busy… and it is very frustrating… I have to say 
 that my browsing experience is far from delightful. Does anyone else 
 face these experiences? If so, which browser do you use?
 
 thanks.
 
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 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
 or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
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 The archives for this list can be searched 

Re: I Mac Pro.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
You wil have a gadget that can power you for a quite long time.
/A
> 22 juni 2017 kl. 22:58 skrev Kawal Gucukoglu :
> 
> And Scott, I am going to max it out,  Maximum memory, maximum ram and may be 
> I won't need to change that machine for a number of years!  I just want a new 
> gadget although I will probably want quite a few new apple gadgets.
>> On 22 Jun 2017, at 21:34, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I need to come work for you if you’re running around with iMac pro money.;)
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 22, 2017, at 4:31 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am thinking of buying the new I Mac Pro when it is released in December.  
>>> It's been almost 5 years since I've had my I Mac.  I am rather excited that 
>>> a new I Mac is on the way.  I will be looking for anyone in the UK on this 
>>> list who may want an I Mac as I am going to sell this one as cheaply as 
>>> possible around the three or £400 mark.  I am just letting those of you 
>>> know who live in the UK to find out if anyone will want an I Mac come 
>>> Christmas time.
>>> 
>>> I hope the new I Mac Pro will have the same screen width as this one just 
>>> about fits on the back of my desk as I have the 27 inch model.
>>> Kawal.
>>> 
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>>> 
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Re: Installer not talking on my iMac

[E.T.]

   (smiling) Fred is not democratic. And if he is singing on the job...

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/26/2017 8:08 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hey,

What's your problem with Fred :)?  Just because he lilts, or almost
sings, what he's saying doesn't deserve such malice.  Maybe he's happy
with actually being chosen to talk, since he's like the kid that's
always picked last.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 26, 2017, at 08:59, E.T. > wrote:

  I too experience this at every installation and have always been able
to use the standard VO commands to change speech settings. The only
problem I have is with Fred.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com 

On 6/26/2017 7:54 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi David,

Your assertion that it has nothing to do with muting or volume level is
not necessarily valid.  The base system that is part of the installers
and the Recovery system accesses resources differently than the regular
MacOS.  So, if VO is behaving normally after the installation has
finished, then it is accessing the full suite of system resources.  The
base system has a limited set of settings as you can affirm by the
limited functionality of VO in general.

This is not to minimize your frustration, just to clarify things a little.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 26, 2017, at 07:40, David Griffith 
> wrote:

   I I am not sure if my message got through yesterday.

However I have had exactly the same issue on my iMac with  installing
Sierra.

I have installed loads of OS versions before without issue before coming
up against this accessibility barrier.
Voiceover only comes to life after the Sierra installer has completed.
Sighted help was telling me that every time I pressed command F5
Voiceover on would  appear as text on screen but no sound would emerge.
This has nothing to do with muting or volume  levels as everything
suddenly reverts to normal Voiceover feedback as soon as the installer
finishes.

I contacted Appole Accessibility about this but they pretty much
dismissed my concerns by claiming that I was the only person who had
ever reported this as an issue.

So if others are experiencing the same issue on their  iMacs then I
would urge you to report it to Appole Accessibility and perhaps they
will take it seriously and investigate.


David Griffith

Sent from Mail  for
Windows 10

*From: *Nickus de Vos 
*Sent: *25 June 2017 12:00
*To: *macvisionaries@googlegroups.com


*Subject: *Installer not talking on my iMac

Hi all
I had to format and install a clean copy of Sierra for a friend over the
weekend and thought while I have the installer on a USB flash drive I
might as well do my iMac as well, since I’ve been wanting to do a clean
install for a while.

Everything worked as expected on my friends MBP and I did the clean
install for him, Voiceover talked me through the entire process as
expected. However this morning when I wanted to do my iMac, Voiceover
simply didn’t want to start during the installation process no matter
what I tried.
For reference I then inserted the USB drive with the installer in to my
Macbook Pro and booted in to it and Voiceover started just fine, but
nothing happens on my iMac.

Anyone had this happen to them before, any ideas or solutions?
My iMac is a late 2013 model running Sierra, my friends MBP which
Voiceover worked on during installation is a mid 2012 and my MBP is a
mid 2015 Retina.

--
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Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
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 and your owner is
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You received this message because 

Re: Installer not talking on my iMac

[Tim Kilburn]

Hey,

What's your problem with Fred :)?  Just because he lilts, or almost sings, what 
he's saying doesn't deserve such malice.  Maybe he's happy with actually being 
chosen to talk, since he's like the kid that's always picked last.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 26, 2017, at 08:59, E.T.  wrote:

  I too experience this at every installation and have always been able to use 
the standard VO commands to change speech settings. The only problem I have is 
with Fred.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com 

On 6/26/2017 7:54 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> Your assertion that it has nothing to do with muting or volume level is
> not necessarily valid.  The base system that is part of the installers
> and the Recovery system accesses resources differently than the regular
> MacOS.  So, if VO is behaving normally after the installation has
> finished, then it is accessing the full suite of system resources.  The
> base system has a limited set of settings as you can affirm by the
> limited functionality of VO in general.
> 
> This is not to minimize your frustration, just to clarify things a little.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Jun 26, 2017, at 07:40, David Griffith  >> wrote:
> 
>I I am not sure if my message got through yesterday.
> 
> However I have had exactly the same issue on my iMac with  installing
> Sierra.
> 
> I have installed loads of OS versions before without issue before coming
> up against this accessibility barrier.
> Voiceover only comes to life after the Sierra installer has completed.
> Sighted help was telling me that every time I pressed command F5
> Voiceover on would  appear as text on screen but no sound would emerge.
> This has nothing to do with muting or volume  levels as everything
> suddenly reverts to normal Voiceover feedback as soon as the installer
> finishes.
> 
> I contacted Appole Accessibility about this but they pretty much
> dismissed my concerns by claiming that I was the only person who had
> ever reported this as an issue.
> 
> So if others are experiencing the same issue on their  iMacs then I
> would urge you to report it to Appole Accessibility and perhaps they
> will take it seriously and investigate.
> 
> 
> David Griffith
> 
> Sent from Mail  > for
> Windows 10
> 
> *From: *Nickus de Vos  >
> *Sent: *25 June 2017 12:00
> *To: *macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  >
> *Subject: *Installer not talking on my iMac
> 
> Hi all
> I had to format and install a clean copy of Sierra for a friend over the
> weekend and thought while I have the installer on a USB flash drive I
> might as well do my iMac as well, since I’ve been wanting to do a clean
> install for a while.
> 
> Everything worked as expected on my friends MBP and I did the clean
> install for him, Voiceover talked me through the entire process as
> expected. However this morning when I wanted to do my iMac, Voiceover
> simply didn’t want to start during the installation process no matter
> what I tried.
> For reference I then inserted the USB drive with the installer in to my
> Macbook Pro and booted in to it and Voiceover started just fine, but
> nothing happens on my iMac.
> 
> Anyone had this happen to them before, any ideas or solutions?
> My iMac is a late 2013 model running Sierra, my friends MBP which
> Voiceover worked on during installation is a mid 2012 and my MBP is a
> mid 2015 Retina.
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
> 
>  > and your owner is
> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
> >
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 

Undocumented Commands

[E.T.]

   I am looking for any undocumented commands, both keyboard and 
braille, for iOS.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

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list.

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can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Installer not talking on my iMac

[Jonathan Cohn]

It sounded like you were active in the session I found it quite useful for
what I am working on.

Thanks!
.

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 9:40 AM David Griffith 
wrote:

> I I am not sure if my message got through yesterday.
>
>
>
> However I have had exactly the same issue on my iMac with  installing
> Sierra.
>
>
>
> I have installed loads of OS versions before without issue before coming
> up against this accessibility barrier.
>
> Voiceover only comes to life after the Sierra installer has completed.
> Sighted help was telling me that every time I pressed command F5 Voiceover
> on would  appear as text on screen but no sound would emerge. This has
> nothing to do with muting or volume  levels as everything suddenly reverts
> to normal Voiceover feedback as soon as the installer finishes.
>
>
>
> I contacted Appole Accessibility about this but they pretty much dismissed
> my concerns by claiming that I was the only person who had ever reported
> this as an issue.
>
>
>
> So if others are experiencing the same issue on their  iMacs then I would
> urge you to report it to Appole Accessibility and perhaps they will take it
> seriously and investigate.
>
>
>
>
>
> David Griffith
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Nickus de Vos 
> *Sent: *25 June 2017 12:00
> *To: *macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> *Subject: *Installer not talking on my iMac
>
>
>
> Hi all
>
> I had to format and install a clean copy of Sierra for a friend over the
> weekend and thought while I have the installer on a USB flash drive I might
> as well do my iMac as well, since I’ve been wanting to do a clean install
> for a while.
>
>
>
> Everything worked as expected on my friends MBP and I did the clean
> install for him, Voiceover talked me through the entire process as
> expected. However this morning when I wanted to do my iMac, Voiceover
> simply didn’t want to start during the installation process no matter what
> I tried.
>
> For reference I then inserted the USB drive with the installer in to my
> Macbook Pro and booted in to it and Voiceover started just fine, but
> nothing happens on my iMac.
>
>
>
> Anyone had this happen to them before, any ideas or solutions?
>
> My iMac is a late 2013 model running Sierra, my friends MBP which
> Voiceover worked on during installation is a mid 2012 and my MBP is a mid
> 2015 Retina.
>
>
>
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Re: AT launches fake 5G offering to play catch up with the rest of the carriers

[Scott Granados]

Oh God, AT is by no means the head of anything.  They are a former piece of 
the Bell System which was broken up in 1980 if memory serves.  They are a 
dinosaur though of a network.  Verizon which is another piece of the former 
Bell System has a better more advanced network as does T-Mobile which is part 
of the German Telephone company but will probably be spun off fairly soon to 
take over Sprint which is our other carrier and part of the former rail road 
industry.

> On Jun 23, 2017, at 6:08 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> That’s not 5g, isn’t that a more 4.5g network?
>  
> I thought at were meant to be your biggest provider which I would have 
> thought put them out front in the world of network technology,
>  
> Vodafone nz is far ahead of at
> And they aren’t even haflf at size.
>  
>  
> And besides what phones handle this level  of technology?
>  
> The galaxy s8 I thought.
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Friday, 23 June 2017 5:59 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: AT launches fake 5G offering to play catch up with the rest of the 
> carriers
>  
> True to form, AT is lying again about their service offerings.  AT is 
> launching 256QAM and 4/4 MIMO on it’s network, something T-Mobile and Verizon 
> have had in place since last September and they are calling it 5G evolution.  
> As the article says quite literally, this is total BS.  These technologies 
> only update AT to where the other 2 major providers were last year.  Read 
> more here.
>  
> https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/25/15425414/att-5g-evolution-network-lte-advanced-misleading-marketing
>  
> 
>  
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Re: I Mac Pro.

[lenron brown]

It's awesome to have such a big display to feel i get it. They even
look nice even if you have a tiny bit of vision.

On 6/26/17, Scott Granados  wrote:
> It’s funny you mention that.  My assistant is for ever wiping off my finger
> prints from the screens for the same reason.  The new televisions I bought
> are like a work of art and with the stands it’s like this big 75 inch piece
> of glass hanging in the air.  It feels sort of like an iPhone bug 75 inches
> diagonal with a curve.  So I get what you mean you like the feel of the
> design.  I completely get that.
>
>
>> On Jun 24, 2017, at 1:24 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>
>> My first computer when I came to the Mac world was a Mac book, 2010.  Not
>> sure if it was early or late addition as at that time I was in the US on
>> holiday and got one from there and bought it back to the UK.  I think
>> after a few years, I wanted a change as I didn't want a computer which had
>> a battery in it.  I prefer the I Mac line because the machine can sit on
>> the back of my desk and I have a lot of room in the front.  I might have
>> no vision but I like the feel of the beautiful screen.
>>
>> Kawal.
>>> On 24 Jun 2017, at 12:20, Ronald van Rhijn  wrote:
>>>
>>> Well in fact, my first Mac was a Mac Pro. The main reason to get one was
>>> I refused to pay for a massive screen on the iMac which I didn’t need as
>>> a blind person. Secondly I wanted to turn off the screen permanently. The
>>> price was roughly the same as the top of the bill iMac at that time,
>>> although the Pro is of course more expensive if you consider it comes
>>> without a screen. I had an older lcd monitor which suited fine.
>>> Thats why I will wait for the new Mac Pro to see if its interesting for
>>> me.
>>> But when I go for the iMac Pro I never gonna get it maxed out to 18000.
>>> When I really need the power I definitely go for the new Mac Pro, which
>>> will be of a modular design, and therefor easily expandible.
>>>
>>> Ronald
>>>
 Op 24 jun. 2017, om 02:32 heeft Karen Lewellen
  het volgende geschreven:

 I must agree,
 after all how do you know what this individual can appreciate?
 I say if the Mercedes fits, drive it!
 Kare


 On Fri, 23 Jun 2017, Tim Kilburn wrote:

> Hi,
>
> It's a matter of choice.  Whether a blind person is the person
> purchasing it shouldn't be the crutch mentioned here.  Just because you
> can't see the screen, doesn't mean that you shouldn't desire a higher
> end computer.  Now, what really needs to be considered in my opinion,
> is the tasks and such that will be accomplished on the computer.  In
> many cases, a high-end iMac itself would likely perform tasks very
> well, but it's entirely up to the person who's making the purchase.
>
> Later...
>
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
> On Jun 23, 2017, at 16:51, Daniel Miller  wrote:
>
> If you want to spend what will probably amount to nearly $18000 on a
> computer that has so much power that the average blind person doesn’t
> need, go right ahead.
>> On Jun 23, 2017, at 6:35 PM, Simon Fogarty 
>> wrote:
>>
>> And scott,
>>
>>
>> A screen that a blind person can't appreciate!
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Saturday, 24 June 2017 2:01 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: I Mac Pro.
>>
>> I really do need to work for you, you’re talking tens of thousands to
>> do that most likely.  A maxed unit has 128 GB of ram, 16 GB of video
>> memory, 18 cores, 4 TB of storage and so forth.  That will be one hell
>> of a machine.
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 22, 2017, at 4:58 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> And Scott, I am going to max it out,  Maximum memory, maximum ram and
>>> may be I won't need to change that machine for a number of years!  I
>>> just want a new gadget although I will probably want quite a few new
>>> apple gadgets.
 On 22 Jun 2017, at 21:34, Scott Granados 
 wrote:

 I need to come work for you if you’re running around with iMac pro
 money.;)


> On Jun 22, 2017, at 4:31 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu 
> wrote:
>
> I am thinking of buying the new I Mac Pro when it is released in
> December.  It's been almost 5 years since I've had my I Mac.  I am
> rather excited that a new I Mac is on the way.  I will be looking
> for anyone in the UK on this list who may want an I Mac as I am
> going to sell this one as cheaply as possible 

Re: accessible VPN

[Scott Granados]

A great way to go is to set up a server for like $5 per month and install open 
VPN.  There are totally accessible clients for Mac, Windows, IOS and Android 
and you can have as many clients as you want when you run your own server with 
out a per seat price.  Open VPN software is also totally open source.

> On Jun 24, 2017, at 2:17 AM, masood B  wrote:
> 
> hello. I would like to know if there is any accessible VPN for Windows and 
> mac? thanks.
> 
> -- 
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Re: I Mac Pro.

[Scott Granados]

It’s funny you mention that.  My assistant is for ever wiping off my finger 
prints from the screens for the same reason.  The new televisions I bought are 
like a work of art and with the stands it’s like this big 75 inch piece of 
glass hanging in the air.  It feels sort of like an iPhone bug 75 inches  
diagonal with a curve.  So I get what you mean you like the feel of the design. 
 I completely get that.


> On Jun 24, 2017, at 1:24 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> My first computer when I came to the Mac world was a Mac book, 2010.  Not 
> sure if it was early or late addition as at that time I was in the US on 
> holiday and got one from there and bought it back to the UK.  I think after a 
> few years, I wanted a change as I didn't want a computer which had a battery 
> in it.  I prefer the I Mac line because the machine can sit on the back of my 
> desk and I have a lot of room in the front.  I might have no vision but I 
> like the feel of the beautiful screen.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 24 Jun 2017, at 12:20, Ronald van Rhijn  wrote:
>> 
>> Well in fact, my first Mac was a Mac Pro. The main reason to get one was I 
>> refused to pay for a massive screen on the iMac which I didn’t need as a 
>> blind person. Secondly I wanted to turn off the screen permanently. The 
>> price was roughly the same as the top of the bill iMac at that time, 
>> although the Pro is of course more expensive if you consider it comes 
>> without a screen. I had an older lcd monitor which suited fine.
>> Thats why I will wait for the new Mac Pro to see if its interesting for me.
>> But when I go for the iMac Pro I never gonna get it maxed out to 18000. When 
>> I really need the power I definitely go for the new Mac Pro, which will be 
>> of a modular design, and therefor easily expandible. 
>> 
>> Ronald
>> 
>>> Op 24 jun. 2017, om 02:32 heeft Karen Lewellen  
>>> het volgende geschreven:
>>> 
>>> I must agree,
>>> after all how do you know what this individual can appreciate?
>>> I say if the Mercedes fits, drive it!
>>> Kare
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, 23 Jun 2017, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>>> 
 Hi,
 
 It's a matter of choice.  Whether a blind person is the person purchasing 
 it shouldn't be the crutch mentioned here.  Just because you can't see the 
 screen, doesn't mean that you shouldn't desire a higher end computer.  
 Now, what really needs to be considered in my opinion, is the tasks and 
 such that will be accomplished on the computer.  In many cases, a high-end 
 iMac itself would likely perform tasks very well, but it's entirely up to 
 the person who's making the purchase.
 
 Later...
 
 Tim Kilburn
 Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
 On Jun 23, 2017, at 16:51, Daniel Miller  wrote:
 
 If you want to spend what will probably amount to nearly $18000 on a 
 computer that has so much power that the average blind person doesn’t 
 need, go right ahead.
> On Jun 23, 2017, at 6:35 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> And scott,
> 
> 
> A screen that a blind person can't appreciate!
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Saturday, 24 June 2017 2:01 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: I Mac Pro.
> 
> I really do need to work for you, you’re talking tens of thousands to do 
> that most likely.  A maxed unit has 128 GB of ram, 16 GB of video memory, 
> 18 cores, 4 TB of storage and so forth.  That will be one hell of a 
> machine.
> 
> 
>> On Jun 22, 2017, at 4:58 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> And Scott, I am going to max it out,  Maximum memory, maximum ram and 
>> may be I won't need to change that machine for a number of years!  I 
>> just want a new gadget although I will probably want quite a few new 
>> apple gadgets.
>>> On 22 Jun 2017, at 21:34, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I need to come work for you if you’re running around with iMac pro 
>>> money.;)
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 22, 2017, at 4:31 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  
 wrote:
 
 I am thinking of buying the new I Mac Pro when it is released in 
 December.  It's been almost 5 years since I've had my I Mac.  I am 
 rather excited that a new I Mac is on the way.  I will be looking for 
 anyone in the UK on this list who may want an I Mac as I am going to 
 sell this one as cheaply as possible around the three or £400 mark.  I 
 am just letting those of you know who live in the UK to find out if 
 anyone will want an I Mac come Christmas time.
 
 I hope the new I Mac Pro will have the same screen 

Re: Installer not talking on my iMac

[E.T.]

   I too experience this at every installation and have always been 
able to use the standard VO commands to change speech settings. The only 
problem I have is with Fred.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 6/26/2017 7:54 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi David,

Your assertion that it has nothing to do with muting or volume level is
not necessarily valid.  The base system that is part of the installers
and the Recovery system accesses resources differently than the regular
MacOS.  So, if VO is behaving normally after the installation has
finished, then it is accessing the full suite of system resources.  The
base system has a limited set of settings as you can affirm by the
limited functionality of VO in general.

This is not to minimize your frustration, just to clarify things a little.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 26, 2017, at 07:40, David Griffith > wrote:

I I am not sure if my message got through yesterday.

However I have had exactly the same issue on my iMac with  installing
Sierra.

I have installed loads of OS versions before without issue before coming
up against this accessibility barrier.
Voiceover only comes to life after the Sierra installer has completed.
Sighted help was telling me that every time I pressed command F5
Voiceover on would  appear as text on screen but no sound would emerge.
This has nothing to do with muting or volume  levels as everything
suddenly reverts to normal Voiceover feedback as soon as the installer
finishes.

I contacted Appole Accessibility about this but they pretty much
dismissed my concerns by claiming that I was the only person who had
ever reported this as an issue.

So if others are experiencing the same issue on their  iMacs then I
would urge you to report it to Appole Accessibility and perhaps they
will take it seriously and investigate.


David Griffith

Sent from Mail  for
Windows 10

*From: *Nickus de Vos 
*Sent: *25 June 2017 12:00
*To: *macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

*Subject: *Installer not talking on my iMac

Hi all
I had to format and install a clean copy of Sierra for a friend over the
weekend and thought while I have the installer on a USB flash drive I
might as well do my iMac as well, since I’ve been wanting to do a clean
install for a while.

Everything worked as expected on my friends MBP and I did the clean
install for him, Voiceover talked me through the entire process as
expected. However this morning when I wanted to do my iMac, Voiceover
simply didn’t want to start during the installation process no matter
what I tried.
For reference I then inserted the USB drive with the installer in to my
Macbook Pro and booted in to it and Voiceover started just fine, but
nothing happens on my iMac.

Anyone had this happen to them before, any ideas or solutions?
My iMac is a late 2013 model running Sierra, my friends MBP which
Voiceover worked on during installation is a mid 2012 and my MBP is a
mid 2015 Retina.

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Re: I Mac Pro.

[Scott Granados]

You tell em Kare.

As a former Mercedes, Ferrari and Roller owner, they fit just fine thank 
you.:). Actually, I don’t fit just fine in the Ferrari, I’m 6-6 and my head 
stuck out the top.


> On Jun 23, 2017, at 8:32 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> I must agree,
> after all how do you know what this individual can appreciate?
> I say if the Mercedes fits, drive it!
> Kare
> 
> 
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2017, Tim Kilburn wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> It's a matter of choice.  Whether a blind person is the person purchasing it 
>> shouldn't be the crutch mentioned here.  Just because you can't see the 
>> screen, doesn't mean that you shouldn't desire a higher end computer.  Now, 
>> what really needs to be considered in my opinion, is the tasks and such that 
>> will be accomplished on the computer.  In many cases, a high-end iMac itself 
>> would likely perform tasks very well, but it's entirely up to the person 
>> who's making the purchase.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Jun 23, 2017, at 16:51, Daniel Miller  wrote:
>> 
>> If you want to spend what will probably amount to nearly $18000 on a 
>> computer that has so much power that the average blind person doesn’t need, 
>> go right ahead.
>>> On Jun 23, 2017, at 6:35 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> And scott,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> A screen that a blind person can't appreciate!
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>>> Sent: Saturday, 24 June 2017 2:01 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: I Mac Pro.
>>> 
>>> I really do need to work for you, you’re talking tens of thousands to do 
>>> that most likely.  A maxed unit has 128 GB of ram, 16 GB of video memory, 
>>> 18 cores, 4 TB of storage and so forth.  That will be one hell of a machine.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 22, 2017, at 4:58 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 And Scott, I am going to max it out,  Maximum memory, maximum ram and may 
 be I won't need to change that machine for a number of years!  I just want 
 a new gadget although I will probably want quite a few new apple gadgets.
> On 22 Jun 2017, at 21:34, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> I need to come work for you if you’re running around with iMac pro 
> money.;)
> 
> 
>> On Jun 22, 2017, at 4:31 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> I am thinking of buying the new I Mac Pro when it is released in 
>> December.  It's been almost 5 years since I've had my I Mac.  I am 
>> rather excited that a new I Mac is on the way.  I will be looking for 
>> anyone in the UK on this list who may want an I Mac as I am going to 
>> sell this one as cheaply as possible around the three or £400 mark.  I 
>> am just letting those of you know who live in the UK to find out if 
>> anyone will want an I Mac come Christmas time.
>> 
>> I hope the new I Mac Pro will have the same screen width as this one 
>> just about fits on the back of my desk as I have the 27 inch model.
>> Kawal.
>> 
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Re: I Mac Pro.

[Scott Granados]

First off, in the UK it’s probably even higher because of the exchange rates 
and importation taxes.

Secondly, this sounds like a whole glass of hater aid to me.  Some of us really 
could justify such a machine and we’re blind so I take offense to that 
statement.  We who do things like network modeling and building virtual lab 
environments could definitely use the horse power.
Regardless of that though, what does blindness have to do with it?  If 
she or anyone else has the money and the desire who are we to criticize?

> On Jun 23, 2017, at 6:51 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
> 
> If you want to spend what will probably amount to nearly $18000 on a computer 
> that has so much power that the average blind person doesn’t need, go right 
> ahead.
>> On Jun 23, 2017, at 6:35 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> And scott,
>> 
>> 
>> A screen that a blind person can't appreciate!
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Saturday, 24 June 2017 2:01 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: I Mac Pro.
>> 
>> I really do need to work for you, you’re talking tens of thousands to do 
>> that most likely.  A maxed unit has 128 GB of ram, 16 GB of video memory, 18 
>> cores, 4 TB of storage and so forth.  That will be one hell of a machine.  
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 22, 2017, at 4:58 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> And Scott, I am going to max it out,  Maximum memory, maximum ram and may 
>>> be I won't need to change that machine for a number of years!  I just want 
>>> a new gadget although I will probably want quite a few new apple gadgets.
 On 22 Jun 2017, at 21:34, Scott Granados  wrote:
 
 I need to come work for you if you’re running around with iMac pro money.;)
 
 
> On Jun 22, 2017, at 4:31 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> I am thinking of buying the new I Mac Pro when it is released in 
> December.  It's been almost 5 years since I've had my I Mac.  I am rather 
> excited that a new I Mac is on the way.  I will be looking for anyone in 
> the UK on this list who may want an I Mac as I am going to sell this one 
> as cheaply as possible around the three or £400 mark.  I am just letting 
> those of you know who live in the UK to find out if anyone will want an I 
> Mac come Christmas time.
> 
> I hope the new I Mac Pro will have the same screen width as this one just 
> about fits on the back of my desk as I have the 27 inch model.
> Kawal.
> 
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 For more options, 

Re: Installer not talking on my iMac

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi David,

Your assertion that it has nothing to do with muting or volume level is not 
necessarily valid.  The base system that is part of the installers and the 
Recovery system accesses resources differently than the regular MacOS.  So, if 
VO is behaving normally after the installation has finished, then it is 
accessing the full suite of system resources.  The base system has a limited 
set of settings as you can affirm by the limited functionality of VO in general.

This is not to minimize your frustration, just to clarify things a little.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 26, 2017, at 07:40, David Griffith  wrote:

I I am not sure if my message got through yesterday.
 
However I have had exactly the same issue on my iMac with  installing Sierra.
 
I have installed loads of OS versions before without issue before coming up 
against this accessibility barrier.
Voiceover only comes to life after the Sierra installer has completed. Sighted 
help was telling me that every time I pressed command F5 Voiceover on would  
appear as text on screen but no sound would emerge. This has nothing to do with 
muting or volume  levels as everything suddenly reverts to normal Voiceover 
feedback as soon as the installer finishes.
 
I contacted Appole Accessibility about this but they pretty much dismissed my 
concerns by claiming that I was the only person who had ever reported this as 
an issue.
 
So if others are experiencing the same issue on their  iMacs then I would urge 
you to report it to Appole Accessibility and perhaps they will take it 
seriously and investigate.
 
 
David Griffith
 
Sent from Mail  for Windows 10
 
From: Nickus de Vos 
Sent: 25 June 2017 12:00
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Installer not talking on my iMac
 
Hi all
I had to format and install a clean copy of Sierra for a friend over the 
weekend and thought while I have the installer on a USB flash drive I might as 
well do my iMac as well, since I’ve been wanting to do a clean install for a 
while.
 
Everything worked as expected on my friends MBP and I did the clean install for 
him, Voiceover talked me through the entire process as expected. However this 
morning when I wanted to do my iMac, Voiceover simply didn’t want to start 
during the installation process no matter what I tried.
For reference I then inserted the USB drive with the installer in to my Macbook 
Pro and booted in to it and Voiceover started just fine, but nothing happens on 
my iMac.
 
Anyone had this happen to them before, any ideas or solutions?
My iMac is a late 2013 model running Sierra, my friends MBP which Voiceover 
worked on during installation is a mid 2012 and my MBP is a mid 2015 Retina.
 
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Re: I Mac Pro.

[Scott Granados]

You know it’s not all about the blind user, that blind user probably has sited 
colleagues who would benefit.  I just bought a pile of 4K televisions because 
they were accessible and because the sited folks around the house use the 4K 
side of things.

> On Jun 23, 2017, at 6:35 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> And scott,
> 
> 
> A screen that a blind person can't appreciate!
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Saturday, 24 June 2017 2:01 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: I Mac Pro.
> 
> I really do need to work for you, you’re talking tens of thousands to do that 
> most likely.  A maxed unit has 128 GB of ram, 16 GB of video memory, 18 
> cores, 4 TB of storage and so forth.  That will be one hell of a machine.  
> 
> 
>> On Jun 22, 2017, at 4:58 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> And Scott, I am going to max it out,  Maximum memory, maximum ram and may be 
>> I won't need to change that machine for a number of years!  I just want a 
>> new gadget although I will probably want quite a few new apple gadgets.
>>> On 22 Jun 2017, at 21:34, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I need to come work for you if you’re running around with iMac pro money.;)
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 22, 2017, at 4:31 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 I am thinking of buying the new I Mac Pro when it is released in December. 
  It's been almost 5 years since I've had my I Mac.  I am rather excited 
 that a new I Mac is on the way.  I will be looking for anyone in the UK on 
 this list who may want an I Mac as I am going to sell this one as cheaply 
 as possible around the three or £400 mark.  I am just letting those of you 
 know who live in the UK to find out if anyone will want an I Mac come 
 Christmas time.
 
 I hope the new I Mac Pro will have the same screen width as this one just 
 about fits on the back of my desk as I have the 27 inch model.
 Kawal.
 
 -- 
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 Visionaries list.
 
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>>> 
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>>> 
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>> 
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>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can 

Re: I Mac Pro.

[Scott Granados]

I bet you’re tough as nails in the work place.:)

I like the iMac pro idea myself.  We will see what the rest of the year brings. 
 I’m mostly using laptops these days but the idea of a nice powerful desktop is 
attractive.

> On Jun 23, 2017, at 4:48 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> I want to see what the UK price will be in December before I decide to get 
> the I Mac Pro.  I maxed this I Mac out when I got it it has 32 GB in it and 
> it's fully SSD.  I am not worried about anything until I have the facts in 
> front of me.  I also know of another person who said he would get the I Mac 
> Pro too, Scott, you admire his knowledge as you have said before.  We had a 
> long chat the other day and we talked about the I Mac Pro.  I am the kind of 
> woman who does not do things by halves.  When I do something, I do it 
> properly and go the whole hog!  If someone dared me to do something, I would 
> not hesitate and would do it come what may.  So if the price is right, and 
> it's in my budget, then the I Mac Pro will be mine maxed out, SSD too!
> 
> Scott, you would not want to work for me as I'm a serious person, and I'm a 
> slave driver and not to mention a big saver!  I might not buy something for 
> at least six to 9 months, live a simple life and when I make my mind up, I 
> don't hesitate, just get it and enjoy and laugh about it to my friends who 
> tell me that I'm crazy.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 23 Jun 2017, at 15:01, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I really do need to work for you, you’re talking tens of thousands to do 
>> that most likely.  A maxed unit has 128 GB of ram, 16 GB of video memory, 18 
>> cores, 4 TB of storage and so forth.  That will be one hell of a machine.  
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 22, 2017, at 4:58 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> And Scott, I am going to max it out,  Maximum memory, maximum ram and may 
>>> be I won't need to change that machine for a number of years!  I just want 
>>> a new gadget although I will probably want quite a few new apple gadgets.
 On 22 Jun 2017, at 21:34, Scott Granados  wrote:
 
 I need to come work for you if you’re running around with iMac pro money.;)
 
 
> On Jun 22, 2017, at 4:31 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> I am thinking of buying the new I Mac Pro when it is released in 
> December.  It's been almost 5 years since I've had my I Mac.  I am rather 
> excited that a new I Mac is on the way.  I will be looking for anyone in 
> the UK on this list who may want an I Mac as I am going to sell this one 
> as cheaply as possible around the three or £400 mark.  I am just letting 
> those of you know who live in the UK to find out if anyone will want an I 
> Mac come Christmas time.
> 
> I hope the new I Mac Pro will have the same screen width as this one just 
> about fits on the back of my desk as I have the 27 inch model.
> Kawal.
> 
> -- 
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Re: Installer not talking on my iMac

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the confirmation.  Yes, you are right, the PRAM reset should bring 
back sound as it is putting things back to defaults, which includes the sound 
level.  I've used that method on occasion as well.  My method of modifying the 
system volume with the VO-cmd-left three times then VO-cmd-up usually works as 
well.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 26, 2017, at 02:08, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

No things haven’t changed in this situation
 
Volume doesn’t change in this situation.
 
However carry out the P R A M reset and I’d garunty that you’ll get vo back 
during installations.
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: Monday, 26 June 2017 3:34 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Installer not talking on my iMac
 
Hi,
 
The standard volume controls have never worked for me in either the Recovery 
Partition nor the USB installers.  I don't believe that the base system that's 
part of these initial installers has that capability.  Things may have changed 
though and I could be mistaken.
 
Later...
 
Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada 
 
On Jun 25, 2017, at 09:31, Jonathan Cohn > wrote:
 
Could you use the standard F12 / fn+F12 to increase the volume?
 
Also, I expect that USB sound devices would not work with the installer, so 
make sure you are using system sound or head phone jack.
 
Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn


 
On Jun 25, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Tim Kilburn > wrote:
 
Hi,

It sounds like one of two things.  Either the installer is not actually bitting 
properly, thus VO is not actually loaded to start, or, your volume is way down 
on the iMac and thus VO is on but just can't be heard.  To check if it has 
anything to do with the volume, wait an appropriate amount of time for the 
installer to start on the iMac, press cmd-f5, wait a few seconds, then press 
VO-cmd-left three times which should normally take you to the volume quick 
change.  Now, press VO-cmd-up a few times and see if you hear VO announcing the 
volume level.  You may need to try this a few times if you don't wait long 
enough, or if one of the cmd-f5 presses actually turns VO off instead of on.  
Sometimes, I press VO-cmd-left once, then VO-cmd-up a few times and keep 
repeating incase I've got VO on the wrong starting point when I try these 
commands.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 25, 2017, at 05:00, Nickus de Vos > wrote:

Hi all
I had to format and install a clean copy of Sierra for a friend over the 
weekend and thought while I have the installer on a USB flash drive I might as 
well do my iMac as well, since I’ve been wanting to do a clean install for a 
while.

Everything worked as expected on my friends MBP and I did the clean install for 
him, Voiceover talked me through the entire process as expected. However this 
morning when I wanted to do my iMac, Voiceover simply didn’t want to start 
during the installation process no matter what I tried.
For reference I then inserted the USB drive with the installer in to my Macbook 
Pro and booted in to it and Voiceover started just fine, but nothing happens on 
my iMac.

Anyone had this happen to them before, any ideas or solutions?
My iMac is a late 2013 model running Sierra, my friends MBP which Voiceover 
worked on during installation is a mid 2012 and my MBP is a mid 2015 Retina.
 

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list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
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 and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 

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RE: Installer not talking on my iMac

[David Griffith]

I I am not sure if my message got through yesterday.

However I have had exactly the same issue on my iMac with  installing Sierra.

I have installed loads of OS versions before without issue before coming up 
against this accessibility barrier.
Voiceover only comes to life after the Sierra installer has completed. Sighted 
help was telling me that every time I pressed command F5 Voiceover on would  
appear as text on screen but no sound would emerge. This has nothing to do with 
muting or volume  levels as everything suddenly reverts to normal Voiceover 
feedback as soon as the installer finishes.

I contacted Appole Accessibility about this but they pretty much dismissed my 
concerns by claiming that I was the only person who had ever reported this as 
an issue.

So if others are experiencing the same issue on their  iMacs then I would urge 
you to report it to Appole Accessibility and perhaps they will take it 
seriously and investigate.


David Griffith

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Nickus de Vos
Sent: 25 June 2017 12:00
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Installer not talking on my iMac

Hi all
I had to format and install a clean copy of Sierra for a friend over the 
weekend and thought while I have the installer on a USB flash drive I might as 
well do my iMac as well, since I’ve been wanting to do a clean install for a 
while.

Everything worked as expected on my friends MBP and I did the clean install for 
him, Voiceover talked me through the entire process as expected. However this 
morning when I wanted to do my iMac, Voiceover simply didn’t want to start 
during the installation process no matter what I tried.
For reference I then inserted the USB drive with the installer in to my Macbook 
Pro and booted in to it and Voiceover started just fine, but nothing happens on 
my iMac.

Anyone had this happen to them before, any ideas or solutions?
My iMac is a late 2013 model running Sierra, my friends MBP which Voiceover 
worked on during installation is a mid 2012 and my MBP is a mid 2015 Retina.


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RE: When Ejecting is Dimmed

[Simon Fogarty]

When you go to eject the USB  highlight the USB device and then hold down the 
command key and hit E then wait a couple of sends and then when you can't see 
the USB device or volume  you can pull it out.

 If there is more than one volume  then you might get a prompt which will 
contain the option to eject one volume or all volumes 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Sharon Hooley
Sent: Monday, 26 June 2017 9:39 AM
To: Mac Visionaries 
Subject: When Ejecting is Dimmed

Hi,

I try to eject flash drives from my Mac Book Air, and I believe I running 
Sierra, but a lot of times it’s dimmed.  Then I get the message that it wasn’t 
ejected properly.  How do I make it work?

Thanks,

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RE: Installer not talking on my iMac

[Simon Fogarty]

No things haven’t changed in this situation

Volume doesn’t change in this situation.

However carry out the P R A M reset and I’d garunty that you’ll get vo back 
during installations.
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: Monday, 26 June 2017 3:34 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Installer not talking on my iMac

Hi,

The standard volume controls have never worked for me in either the Recovery 
Partition nor the USB installers.  I don't believe that the base system that's 
part of these initial installers has that capability.  Things may have changed 
though and I could be mistaken.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 25, 2017, at 09:31, Jonathan Cohn 
> wrote:

Could you use the standard F12 / fn+F12 to increase the volume?

Also, I expect that USB sound devices would not work with the installer, so 
make sure you are using system sound or head phone jack.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn


On Jun 25, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Tim Kilburn 
> wrote:

Hi,

It sounds like one of two things.  Either the installer is not actually bitting 
properly, thus VO is not actually loaded to start, or, your volume is way down 
on the iMac and thus VO is on but just can't be heard.  To check if it has 
anything to do with the volume, wait an appropriate amount of time for the 
installer to start on the iMac, press cmd-f5, wait a few seconds, then press 
VO-cmd-left three times which should normally take you to the volume quick 
change.  Now, press VO-cmd-up a few times and see if you hear VO announcing the 
volume level.  You may need to try this a few times if you don't wait long 
enough, or if one of the cmd-f5 presses actually turns VO off instead of on.  
Sometimes, I press VO-cmd-left once, then VO-cmd-up a few times and keep 
repeating incase I've got VO on the wrong starting point when I try these 
commands.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 25, 2017, at 05:00, Nickus de Vos 
> wrote:

Hi all
I had to format and install a clean copy of Sierra for a friend over the 
weekend and thought while I have the installer on a USB flash drive I might as 
well do my iMac as well, since I’ve been wanting to do a clean install for a 
while.

Everything worked as expected on my friends MBP and I did the clean install for 
him, Voiceover talked me through the entire process as expected. However this 
morning when I wanted to do my iMac, Voiceover simply didn’t want to start 
during the installation process no matter what I tried.
For reference I then inserted the USB drive with the installer in to my Macbook 
Pro and booted in to it and Voiceover started just fine, but nothing happens on 
my iMac.

Anyone had this happen to them before, any ideas or solutions?
My iMac is a late 2013 model running Sierra, my friends MBP which Voiceover 
worked on during installation is a mid 2012 and my MBP is a mid 2015 Retina.

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RE: Installer not talking on my iMac

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Tim,

 I didn't think the volume worked when using voiceover in the installation 
I've never been able to get it to increase in volume.

Also the alert tones seems to play a part in this.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: Monday, 26 June 2017 2:50 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Installer not talking on my iMac

Hi,

It sounds like one of two things.  Either the installer is not actually bitting 
properly, thus VO is not actually loaded to start, or, your volume is way down 
on the iMac and thus VO is on but just can't be heard.  To check if it has 
anything to do with the volume, wait an appropriate amount of time for the 
installer to start on the iMac, press cmd-f5, wait a few seconds, then press 
VO-cmd-left three times which should normally take you to the volume quick 
change.  Now, press VO-cmd-up a few times and see if you hear VO announcing the 
volume level.  You may need to try this a few times if you don't wait long 
enough, or if one of the cmd-f5 presses actually turns VO off instead of on.  
Sometimes, I press VO-cmd-left once, then VO-cmd-up a few times and keep 
repeating incase I've got VO on the wrong starting point when I try these 
commands.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 25, 2017, at 05:00, Nickus de Vos  wrote:

Hi all
I had to format and install a clean copy of Sierra for a friend over the 
weekend and thought while I have the installer on a USB flash drive I might as 
well do my iMac as well, since I’ve been wanting to do a clean install for a 
while.

Everything worked as expected on my friends MBP and I did the clean install for 
him, Voiceover talked me through the entire process as expected. However this 
morning when I wanted to do my iMac, Voiceover simply didn’t want to start 
during the installation process no matter what I tried.
For reference I then inserted the USB drive with the installer in to my Macbook 
Pro and booted in to it and Voiceover started just fine, but nothing happens on 
my iMac.

Anyone had this happen to them before, any ideas or solutions?
My iMac is a late 2013 model running Sierra, my friends MBP which Voiceover 
worked on during installation is a mid 2012 and my MBP is a mid 2015 Retina.


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RE: Installer not talking on my iMac

[Simon Fogarty]

Question,

 Does your iMac give the start up tones when you turn it on?

 Answr if no start up tones you wont get voiceover talking to you during the 
installation,

So turn the machine off completely then do a PRAM reset,
 That's hold down the keys command, option letter R and the letter p then while 
holding those keys down power on the machine 

Once you hear the start up tones twice you can let the keys go and then shut 
down your machine and start the installation from scratch,

I've had this happen a number of times to me at work.
Voice over should now work for you.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Nickus de Vos
Sent: Sunday, 25 June 2017 11:00 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Installer not talking on my iMac

Hi all
I had to format and install a clean copy of Sierra for a friend over the 
weekend and thought while I have the installer on a USB flash drive I might as 
well do my iMac as well, since I’ve been wanting to do a clean install for a 
while.

Everything worked as expected on my friends MBP and I did the clean install for 
him, Voiceover talked me through the entire process as expected. However this 
morning when I wanted to do my iMac, Voiceover simply didn’t want to start 
during the installation process no matter what I tried.
For reference I then inserted the USB drive with the installer in to my Macbook 
Pro and booted in to it and Voiceover started just fine, but nothing happens on 
my iMac.

Anyone had this happen to them before, any ideas or solutions?
My iMac is a late 2013 model running Sierra, my friends MBP which Voiceover 
worked on during installation is a mid 2012 and my MBP is a mid 2015 Retina.


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