Re: Can't see my Mac Mini on my home network even though I can see all my windows machines

[Kevin Gibbs]

Tim,

I guess I’m sort of done.  I can see the Windows machine from the Mac and I can 
move files in both directions tons if I sign into the Windows machine from the 
Mac by entering the Microsoft credentials I have for the Windows machine when 
it asks me to “Connect As.”  I still can’t approach the Mac from the Windows 
machine even though I can see a whole ton of networked pEriferals on my Windows 
machine that I can’t see from the Mac, even though one of those pEriferals, my 
Sonos music system, draws content from my iTunes library stored, wait FOR it, 
on my Mac.  

NOW, MY CAPS LOCK HAS GOTTEN STUCK AND I WON’T BE ABLE TO UNDO THIS WITHOUT 
REBOOTING THE MACHINE AND I WANT TO FINISH THIS RESPONSE.  UNLESS, THERE’S 
SOMETHING OBVIOUS THAT I HAVEN’T DONE, I GUESS I’LL SETTLE FOR BEING ABLE TO 
APPROACH THIS FROM ONE SIDE BUT NOT THE OTHER, AS IT WERE.  

THANKS AGAIN. AND SORRY FOR THE ALL CAPS

BEST,
KEVIN

So, unless I’m m
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 8:05 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> You’re partway there.  After enabling File Sharing, stop interacting with the 
> table and navigate to the Options button, press it.  In here you can enable 
> sharing with smb.  That should do it, although it is recommended that you 
> actually only share specific folders instead of the entire drive as smb 
> sharing is not as secure as one might like.
> 
> Later…
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Jamf Certified Tech
> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 18:43, Kevin Gibbs > > wrote:
>> 
>> I thought I had enabled sharing.  I chose enable File Sharing.  but I guess 
>> there's more to do that I am not catching.  My Windows machine sees all this 
>> stuff and all my other networkable devices like ROKU, Sonos and others.  but 
>> the Mac only sees my wife's printer and nothing else.  Hope someone else can 
>> lend a hand.
>> 
>> 
>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 2:02:56 PM UTC-6 wb...@swbell.net 
>>  wrote:
>> I don't have a lot of experience with this, but I think you need to go into 
>> System Preferences > Sharing, and enable sharing on the Mac. 
>> 
>> - Brad - 
>> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 13:04, Kevin Gibbs > > wrote: 
>> 
>> I’m trying to network my Mac mini and my Windows 10 machine. I can see the 
>> Windows 10 machine on my Mac but not the Mac on my Windows 10 machine. As 
>> far as I know, they are both on the same wifi network. The Mac mini is the 
>> only device I can’t see on the network. How do I make it visible? 
>> 
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Re: Terminal will not shut up even when i'm in another window

[Michael Marshall]

Thanks for this.

> On 19 Nov 2021, at 11:16 am, 'ja...@jasonjgw.net' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> To redirect standard output and standard error to a file, you should be able 
> to use
> Command &> filename
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>   > on behalf of Michael Marshall 
> mailto:mightymaggie...@gmail.com>>
> Date: Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 14:59
> To: 'Maxwell Ivey' via MacVisionaries  >
> Subject: Re: Terminal will not shut up even when i'm in another window
> 
> hey,
> I should clarify a couple of things. When I'm running these commands, I 
> command tab out of the terminal and just start using the computer normally.
> I don't have a great deal of experience with the terminal actually so I don't 
> know how to output text to files or anything like that.
> 
> 
> On 19 Nov 2021, at 4:33 am, 'ja...@jasonjgw.net ' 
> via MacVisionaries  > wrote:
>  
> I suppose you could run tmux, start the long-running processes in there, and 
> detach with Ctrl-B, Ctrl-d until you decide to return to the session to 
> inspect the results.
>  
> Alternatively, redirect standard output and standard error to a file.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  > on behalf of Michael Marshall 
> mailto:mightymaggie...@gmail.com>>
> Date: Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 05:04
> To: 'Maxwell Ivey' via MacVisionaries  >
> Subject: Terminal will not shut up even when i'm in another window
> 
> hey all,
> I run a series of terminal commands to separate audio files using demucs.
> This is quite a long process and today, a strange problem has started, it 
> could be the system update but even when I'm not in the terminal window, VO 
> still tells me what is going on in terminal.
> This can be at best annoying and at worst, extremely distracting when you're 
> trying to do something.
> Has anyone else ever come across this? Any help would be greatly appreciated
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> Michael
> 
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Re: Can't see my Mac Mini on my home network even though I can see all my windows machines

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

You’ll likely need to also add the folder or location for which you wish to 
share via smb.  For example, if you wish to share your entire Home directory, 
do the following:

• In the File Sharing screen, VO-space on the Add SharePoint button.
• Press cmd-shift-c to show your entire computer.
• In the table, find the Macintosh HD, expand it, then navigate to the Users 
folder, expand it and navigate to your Home directory, which should be 
kevinlgibbs.
• Do not expand this.
• Stop interacting with the table, and navigate to the Add button.

This would share your entire home folder.  You might get an error about not 
being able to ad users.  Don’t worry about it though as only you, as Kevin L 
Gibbs can be given access to the Kevin L Gibbs home directory.

Now that there is a SharePoint to share, hopefully, you should see your Mini as 
a connectable device.

HTH.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 22:33, Kevin Gibbs  wrote:
> 
> Hi Tim,
> 
> Thanks for helping out as you always do.  Unfortunately, I must be an idiot.  
> I checked the share with SMB option and I was presented with two options 
> which appeared to concern which account I wanted to share with.  The options 
> were:
> Kevin L. Gibbs, my Mac Mini’s computer name is kevinlgibbs, all lower case no 
> spaces.  Apparently, the computer can be seen as something called 
> Kevin-Gibbs-Mac-mini.local according to Sharing.  
> 
> Anyway, after going to Options, I could choose either Kevin L. Gibbs or 
> SophosEndpoint or Kevin L. Gibbs.
> 
> I chose Sophos and tried to put in the PW for my Sophos antivirus account and 
> that failed.  I tried Kevin L. Gibbs and put in the PW for my Mac mini, and I 
> suspect this succeeded.  At least, it didn’t give back an incorrect password 
> notification.  
> 
> aNot withstanding that, my Mac is not visible on the Windows side and I don’t 
> even see it as an available computer on the Mac side under Shared Devices.  
> I’m thoroughly confused.  I’m sure this is one of those “Press the Reset 
> button, (Volume XII Revised Edition situations.).  but I just don’t get it.
> 
> Thanks for lending a hand.  If you have any further guidance please share.
> 
> Gratefully,
> Kevin
> 
> Kevin-
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 8:05 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> You’re partway there.  After enabling File Sharing, stop interacting with 
>> the table and navigate to the Options button, press it.  In here you can 
>> enable sharing with smb.  That should do it, although it is recommended that 
>> you actually only share specific folders instead of the entire drive as smb 
>> sharing is not as secure as one might like.
>> 
>> Later…
>> 
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Jamf Certified Tech
>> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
>> Apple Teacher
>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 18:43, Kevin Gibbs >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I thought I had enabled sharing.  I chose enable File Sharing.  but I guess 
>>> there's more to do that I am not catching.  My Windows machine sees all 
>>> this stuff and all my other networkable devices like ROKU, Sonos and 
>>> others.  but the Mac only sees my wife's printer and nothing else.  Hope 
>>> someone else can lend a hand.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 2:02:56 PM UTC-6 wb...@swbell.net 
>>>  wrote:
>>> I don't have a lot of experience with this, but I think you need to go into 
>>> System Preferences > Sharing, and enable sharing on the Mac. 
>>> 
>>> - Brad - 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 13:04, Kevin Gibbs >> > wrote: 
>>> 
>>> I’m trying to network my Mac mini and my Windows 10 machine. I can see the 
>>> Windows 10 machine on my Mac but not the Mac on my Windows 10 machine. As 
>>> far as I know, they are both on the same wifi network. The Mac mini is the 
>>> only device I can’t see on the network. How do I make it visible? 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list. 
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. 
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>>> mk...@ucla.edu  and 
>>> your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at cara...@caraquinn.com 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: 
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisi...@googlegroups.com/ 
>>>  
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group. 
>>> To unsubscribe 

Re: Can't see my Mac Mini on my home network even though I can see all my windows machines

[Kevin Gibbs]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for helping out as you always do.  Unfortunately, I must be an idiot.  I 
checked the share with SMB option and I was presented with two options which 
appeared to concern which account I wanted to share with.  The options were:
Kevin L. Gibbs, my Mac Mini’s computer name is kevinlgibbs, all lower case no 
spaces.  Apparently, the computer can be seen as something called 
Kevin-Gibbs-Mac-mini.local according to Sharing.  

Anyway, after going to Options, I could choose either Kevin L. Gibbs or 
SophosEndpoint or Kevin L. Gibbs.

I chose Sophos and tried to put in the PW for my Sophos antivirus account and 
that failed.  I tried Kevin L. Gibbs and put in the PW for my Mac mini, and I 
suspect this succeeded.  At least, it didn’t give back an incorrect password 
notification.  

aNot withstanding that, my Mac is not visible on the Windows side and I don’t 
even see it as an available computer on the Mac side under Shared Devices.  I’m 
thoroughly confused.  I’m sure this is one of those “Press the Reset button, 
(Volume XII Revised Edition situations.).  but I just don’t get it.

Thanks for lending a hand.  If you have any further guidance please share.

Gratefully,
Kevin

Kevin-
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 8:05 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> You’re partway there.  After enabling File Sharing, stop interacting with the 
> table and navigate to the Options button, press it.  In here you can enable 
> sharing with smb.  That should do it, although it is recommended that you 
> actually only share specific folders instead of the entire drive as smb 
> sharing is not as secure as one might like.
> 
> Later…
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Jamf Certified Tech
> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 18:43, Kevin Gibbs > > wrote:
>> 
>> I thought I had enabled sharing.  I chose enable File Sharing.  but I guess 
>> there's more to do that I am not catching.  My Windows machine sees all this 
>> stuff and all my other networkable devices like ROKU, Sonos and others.  but 
>> the Mac only sees my wife's printer and nothing else.  Hope someone else can 
>> lend a hand.
>> 
>> 
>> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 2:02:56 PM UTC-6 wb...@swbell.net 
>>  wrote:
>> I don't have a lot of experience with this, but I think you need to go into 
>> System Preferences > Sharing, and enable sharing on the Mac. 
>> 
>> - Brad - 
>> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 13:04, Kevin Gibbs > > wrote: 
>> 
>> I’m trying to network my Mac mini and my Windows 10 machine. I can see the 
>> Windows 10 machine on my Mac but not the Mac on my Windows 10 machine. As 
>> far as I know, they are both on the same wifi network. The Mac mini is the 
>> only device I can’t see on the network. How do I make it visible? 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list. 
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. 
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>> mk...@ucla.edu  and 
>> your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at cara...@caraquinn.com 
>>  
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisi...@googlegroups.com/ 
>>  
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>>  
>> .
>>  
>> 
>> 
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>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
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Re: Can't see my Mac Mini on my home network even though I can see all my windows machines

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

You’re partway there.  After enabling File Sharing, stop interacting with the 
table and navigate to the Options button, press it.  In here you can enable 
sharing with smb.  That should do it, although it is recommended that you 
actually only share specific folders instead of the entire drive as smb sharing 
is not as secure as one might like.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 18:43, Kevin Gibbs  wrote:
> 
> I thought I had enabled sharing.  I chose enable File Sharing.  but I guess 
> there's more to do that I am not catching.  My Windows machine sees all this 
> stuff and all my other networkable devices like ROKU, Sonos and others.  but 
> the Mac only sees my wife's printer and nothing else.  Hope someone else can 
> lend a hand.
> 
> 
> On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 2:02:56 PM UTC-6 wb...@swbell.net wrote:
> I don't have a lot of experience with this, but I think you need to go into 
> System Preferences > Sharing, and enable sharing on the Mac. 
> 
> - Brad - 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 13:04, Kevin Gibbs  > wrote: 
> 
> I’m trying to network my Mac mini and my Windows 10 machine. I can see the 
> Windows 10 machine on my Mac but not the Mac on my Windows 10 machine. As far 
> as I know, they are both on the same wifi network. The Mac mini is the only 
> device I can’t see on the network. How do I make it visible? 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list. 
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu  and your 
> owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at cara...@caraquinn.com 
>  
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at: 
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> 
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Re: Question about Braille for the latest OS firmware which was installed a few days ago on my iMac 2020.

[Jonathan Cohn]

I was unable to reproduce with my brailliant BI 40.. Sorry it took so long to 
get back to you.
 
Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Nov 13, 2021, at 16:06, 'Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello.
> 
> I put the latest OS on my iMac a few days ago as I’ve been really busy and 
> haven’t really had too much time to read all the messages on the list so I 
> apologise if this has been answered already.
> 
> I added my Focus Braille display which has been updated to the latest 
> firmware.
> 
> Anyway, I was  going to reply to an email today and made sure that I had 
> contracted Braille enabled by pressing spacebar G.
> 
> So I pressed the Braille modifier keys on the display to get the command R 
> working using the Braille keys and had already interacted with the message so 
> I could input text.
> 
> I tried doing dot 6 to start off with my capital sign but nothing happened.  
> So does anyone have to do anything special for the Braille input to work with 
> a Braille focus please?  I only write in UEB Braille as some of you might 
> gather if you listen to what Jonathan put in one of his messages and thank 
> you so much.
> 
> Kawal.
> 
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Re: MS Word and track changes

[Jonathan Cohn]

I believe there is a way to have the list of changes / comments in a panel to 
the left of the document main window.
I don't find Microsoft Office nearly as efficient on the Mac as on the PC, and 
this is upsetting.
I'm considering ways of trying to make things better for blind Mac users.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Nov 18, 2021, at 19:31, jean parker  wrote:
> 
> Hello All:
> 
> I just started using ms word for mac and I need to be able to read and 
> interact with comments and track changes. The problem is that voiceover is 
> not reading the annotations in the text that indicate where a revision has 
> taken place. Any ideas?
> Jean
> 
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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Jonathan Cohn]

Hello,
If you have your clock set to be "analog", then you can not select date 
options. I expect this is your issue. I had not seen this control panel in 
Monterey yet, and was a bit surprised at its design.
Don't forget that you can use the item chooser.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Nov 18, 2021, at 14:59, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> I find that on my Intel Mac mini, running  Monterey, it makes no difference 
> whether I interact with the table or not.  Simple arrow-key navigation does 
> the trick.
> Thanks Tim.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 12:24, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I’ve found that after interacting with the table, you can just use arrows 
> without VO and you will not encounter the VO problem.  Just an alternative 
> method.  It’s definitely still a bug, although with workarounds.
> 
> Later…
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Jamf Certified Tech
> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 12:28, Brad Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> Exactly.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:51, Herbie Allen > > wrote:
>> 
>> Don’t forget guys we  also discussed the alternative method of  navigation 
>> without interaction. When you get to the table, do an option down aero, then 
>> up aero and you will find the clock menu that way. VO right, and you will 
>> see all the options for date and what not.
>> Herbie
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
>>> use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
>>> clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
>>> Come and See
>>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi Brad,
 
 Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty 
 cell announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather 
 row 17 which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what 
 I thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding 
 the Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
 complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
 to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
 again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
 Best,
 
 Les
 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Patrick,
> 
> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
> following, and see if it helps:
> 
> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
> DownArrow.
> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + 
> Shift + UpArrow.
> 
> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of 
> the table, which is row 15.
> 
> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
> suit your preferences.
> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences 
> window, and you are done.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford  > wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make 
> any changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it 
> says it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I 
> make the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just 
> say the time without the date mentioned.
> Thanks.
> Patrick 
> 
> 
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> 
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> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of 

MS Word and track changes

[jean parker]

Hello All:

I just started using ms word for mac and I need to be able to read and interact 
with comments and track changes. The problem is that voiceover is not reading 
the annotations in the text that indicate where a revision has taken place. Any 
ideas?
Jean

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Re: Terminal will not shut up even when i'm in another window

['ja...@jasonjgw.net' via MacVisionaries]

To redirect standard output and standard error to a file, you should be able to 
use
Command &> filename


From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  on 
behalf of Michael Marshall 
Date: Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 14:59
To: 'Maxwell Ivey' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Terminal will not shut up even when i'm in another window
hey,
I should clarify a couple of things. When I'm running these commands, I command 
tab out of the terminal and just start using the computer normally.
I don't have a great deal of experience with the terminal actually so I don't 
know how to output text to files or anything like that.


On 19 Nov 2021, at 4:33 am, 'ja...@jasonjgw.net' via 
MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

I suppose you could run tmux, start the long-running processes in there, and 
detach with Ctrl-B, Ctrl-d until you decide to return to the session to inspect 
the results.

Alternatively, redirect standard output and standard error to a file.

From: 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.commailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
 on behalf of Michael Marshall 
mailto:mightymaggie...@gmail.com>>
Date: Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 05:04
To: 'Maxwell Ivey' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
Subject: Terminal will not shut up even when i'm in another window
hey all,
I run a series of terminal commands to separate audio files using demucs.
This is quite a long process and today, a strange problem has started, it could 
be the system update but even when I'm not in the terminal window, VO still 
tells me what is going on in terminal.
This can be at best annoying and at worst, extremely distracting when you're 
trying to do something.
Has anyone else ever come across this? Any help would be greatly appreciated

thanks


Michael

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Re: Can't see my Mac Mini on my home network even though I can see all my windows machines

[Kevin Gibbs]

I thought I had enabled sharing.  I chose enable File Sharing.  but I guess 
there's more to do that I am not catching.  My Windows machine sees all 
this stuff and all my other networkable devices like ROKU, Sonos and 
others.  but the Mac only sees my wife's printer and nothing else.  Hope 
someone else can lend a hand.


On Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 2:02:56 PM UTC-6 wb...@swbell.net wrote:

> I don't have a lot of experience with this, but I think you need to go 
> into System Preferences > Sharing, and enable sharing on the Mac.
>
> - Brad -
>
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 13:04, Kevin Gibbs  wrote:
>
> I’m trying to network my Mac mini and my Windows 10 machine. I can see 
> the Windows 10 machine on my Mac but not the Mac on my Windows 10 machine. 
> As far as I know, they are both on the same wifi network. The Mac mini is 
> the only device I can’t see on the network. How do I make it visible?
>
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> .
>
>

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Re: Can't see my Mac Mini on my home network even though I can see all my windows machines

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

On 18/11/21 14:03, Kevin Gibbs wrote:

I’m trying to network my Mac mini and my Windows 10 machine.  I can see the 
Windows 10 machine on my Mac but not the Mac on my Windows 10 machine.  As far 
as I know, they are both on the same wifi network.  The Mac mini is the only 
device I can’t see on the network.  How do I make it visible?
You enable whatever protocol you need to access via the sharing options 
under System Preferences - for example, SMB for file access, or ssh for 
terminal access.


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Re: Can't see my Mac Mini on my home network even though I can see all my windows machines

[Brad Snyder]

I don't have a lot of experience with this, but I think you need to go into 
System Preferences > Sharing, and enable sharing on the Mac.

- Brad -

On Nov 18, 2021, at 13:04, Kevin Gibbs  wrote:

I’m trying to network my Mac mini and my Windows 10 machine.  I can see the 
Windows 10 machine on my Mac but not the Mac on my Windows 10 machine.  As far 
as I know, they are both on the same wifi network.  The Mac mini is the only 
device I can’t see on the network.  How do I make it visible?

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Re: Terminal will not shut up even when i'm in another window

[Michael Marshall]

hey,
I should clarify a couple of things. When I'm running these commands, I command 
tab out of the terminal and just start using the computer normally.
I don't have a great deal of experience with the terminal actually so I don't 
know how to output text to files or anything like that.

> On 19 Nov 2021, at 4:33 am, 'ja...@jasonjgw.net' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I suppose you could run tmux, start the long-running processes in there, and 
> detach with Ctrl-B, Ctrl-d until you decide to return to the session to 
> inspect the results.
>  
> Alternatively, redirect standard output and standard error to a file.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  > on behalf of Michael Marshall 
> mailto:mightymaggie...@gmail.com>>
> Date: Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 05:04
> To: 'Maxwell Ivey' via MacVisionaries  >
> Subject: Terminal will not shut up even when i'm in another window
> 
> hey all,
> I run a series of terminal commands to separate audio files using demucs.
> This is quite a long process and today, a strange problem has started, it 
> could be the system update but even when I'm not in the terminal window, VO 
> still tells me what is going on in terminal.
> This can be at best annoying and at worst, extremely distracting when you're 
> trying to do something.
> Has anyone else ever come across this? Any help would be greatly appreciated
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> Michael
> 
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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Brad Snyder]

I find that on my Intel Mac mini, running  Monterey, it makes no difference 
whether I interact with the table or not.  Simple arrow-key navigation does the 
trick.
Thanks Tim.

- Brad -

On Nov 18, 2021, at 12:24, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi,

I’ve found that after interacting with the table, you can just use arrows 
without VO and you will not encounter the VO problem.  Just an alternative 
method.  It’s definitely still a bug, although with workarounds.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 12:28, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:51, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Don’t forget guys we  also discussed the alternative method of  navigation 
> without interaction. When you get to the table, do an option down aero, then 
> up aero and you will find the clock menu that way. VO right, and you will see 
> all the options for date and what not.
> Herbie
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
>> use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
>> clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
>> Come and See
>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Brad,
>>> 
>>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty 
>>> cell announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather 
>>> row 17 which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what 
>>> I thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding 
>>> the Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Les
>>> 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
 
 Hi Patrick,
 
 Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
 following, and see if it helps:
 
 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
 DownArrow.
 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
 Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
 + UpArrow.
 
 Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
 macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
 VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
 VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
 In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
 table, which is row 15.
 
 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
 RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
 which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
 suit your preferences.
 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences 
 window, and you are done.
 
 HTH.
 
 - Brad -
 
 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford  wrote:
 
 Hi,
 In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
 changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
 it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
 the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
 time without the date mentioned.
 Thanks.
 Patrick 
 
 
 Come and See
 scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io
 
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 Visionaries list.
 
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Can't see my Mac Mini on my home network even though I can see all my windows machines

[Kevin Gibbs]

I’m trying to network my Mac mini and my Windows 10 machine.  I can see the 
Windows 10 machine on my Mac but not the Mac on my Windows 10 machine.  As far 
as I know, they are both on the same wifi network.  The Mac mini is the only 
device I can’t see on the network.  How do I make it visible?

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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

I’ve found that after interacting with the table, you can just use arrows 
without VO and you will not encounter the VO problem.  Just an alternative 
method.  It’s definitely still a bug, although with workarounds.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 12:28, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:51, Herbie Allen  > wrote:
> 
> Don’t forget guys we  also discussed the alternative method of  navigation 
> without interaction. When you get to the table, do an option down aero, then 
> up aero and you will find the clock menu that way. VO right, and you will see 
> all the options for date and what not.
> Herbie
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
>> use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
>> clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
>> Come and See
>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Brad,
>>> 
>>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty 
>>> cell announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather 
>>> row 17 which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what 
>>> I thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding 
>>> the Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Les
>>> 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi Patrick,
 
 Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
 following, and see if it helps:
 
 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
 DownArrow.
 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
 Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
 + UpArrow.
 
 Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
 macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
 VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
 VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
 In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
 table, which is row 15.
 
 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
 RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
 which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
 suit your preferences.
 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences 
 window, and you are done.
 
 HTH.
 
 - Brad -
 
 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi,
 In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
 changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
 it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
 the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
 time without the date mentioned.
 Thanks.
 Patrick 
 
 
 Come and See
 scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
 
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
 you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
 
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
 
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Re: Terminal will not shut up even when i'm in another window

['ja...@jasonjgw.net' via MacVisionaries]

I suppose you could run tmux, start the long-running processes in there, and 
detach with Ctrl-B, Ctrl-d until you decide to return to the session to inspect 
the results.

Alternatively, redirect standard output and standard error to a file.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  on 
behalf of Michael Marshall 
Date: Thursday, November 18, 2021 at 05:04
To: 'Maxwell Ivey' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Terminal will not shut up even when i'm in another window
hey all,
I run a series of terminal commands to separate audio files using demucs.
This is quite a long process and today, a strange problem has started, it could 
be the system update but even when I'm not in the terminal window, VO still 
tells me what is going on in terminal.
This can be at best annoying and at worst, extremely distracting when you're 
trying to do something.
Has anyone else ever come across this? Any help would be greatly appreciated

thanks


Michael

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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Brad Snyder]

Exactly.

- Brad -


On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:51, Herbie Allen  wrote:

Don’t forget guys we  also discussed the alternative method of  navigation 
without interaction. When you get to the table, do an option down aero, then up 
aero and you will find the clock menu that way. VO right, and you will see all 
the options for date and what not.
Herbie

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford  > wrote:
> 
> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
> use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
> clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Brad,
>> 
>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
>> announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
>> which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I 
>> thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the 
>> Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>> Best,
>> 
>> Les
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Patrick,
>>> 
>>> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
>>> following, and see if it helps:
>>> 
>>> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
>>> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
>>> DownArrow.
>>> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
>>> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
>>> + UpArrow.
>>> 
>>> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
>>> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
>>> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
>>> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
>>> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
>>> table, which is row 15.
>>> 
>>> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
>>> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
>>> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
>>> suit your preferences.
>>> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
>>> and you are done.
>>> 
>>> HTH.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>>> time without the date mentioned.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Patrick 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Come and See
>>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83C84EBA-16A6-479D-B20C-819697F3C7A9%40gmail.com
>>>  
>>> .
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>  
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Herbie Allen]

The only uninteracting you should have to do is the search bar, once you find 
the menu, VO right, don’t do anything with interacting.

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:58, Patrick Ford  wrote:
> 
> once at the clock menu - stop interacting and then vo right  and find your 
> choices that you need  in the clock  and/or date and time -
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 11:51 AM, Les Kriegler > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Brad,
>> Your suggestion is well-taken. I will contact Apple. I am able to get to the 
>> clock, I hear Clock Menu Bar but cannot do anything from there. I checked 
>> this out, as I felt I had inadvertently misled Patrick. Well, as they say, 
>> no good deed goes unpunished. Since I got this far, can you explain how I 
>> proceed once reaching the clock Menu bar? By the way, on my system, it is 
>> row 17 according to Voiceover. Thanks for the assist and the procedure.
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Les
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 11:47 AM, Brad Snyder >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Les,
>>> 
>>> Sorry to hear you are having difficulty following my instructions.
>>> The Clock Menu item is the 4th item from the bottom of the table.  There is 
>>> no interacting with this item.  You simply stop interacting with the table, 
>>> and navigate to the right using VO + RightArrow.
>>> Other than VoiceOver not reading items in the table, I find this procedure 
>>> works very well.
>>> If you have an issue with this process, I suggest you contact Apple, and 
>>> share your thoughts with them.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:53, Les Kriegler >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Brad,
>>> 
>>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty 
>>> cell announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather 
>>> row 17 which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what 
>>> I thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding 
>>> the Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Les
>>> 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi Patrick,
 
 Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
 following, and see if it helps:
 
 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
 DownArrow.
 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
 Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
 + UpArrow.
 
 Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
 macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
 VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
 VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
 In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
 table, which is row 15.
 
 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
 RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
 which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
 suit your preferences.
 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences 
 window, and you are done.
 
 HTH.
 
 - Brad -
 
 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi,
 In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
 changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
 it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
 the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
 time without the date mentioned.
 Thanks.
 Patrick 
 
 
 Come and See
 scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
 
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
 you can reach Cara at 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Herbie,
Okay, that procedure worked. I like not having to interact in this case. I hope 
it works for Patrick. Brad, sorry I was snarky, I’m ill and should not have 
bothered with this today.
Best,

Les

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 11:51 AM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Don’t forget guys we  also discussed the alternative method of  navigation 
> without interaction. When you get to the table, do an option down aero, then 
> up aero and you will find the clock menu that way. VO right, and you will see 
> all the options for date and what not.
> Herbie
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
>> use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
>> clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
>> Come and See
>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Brad,
>>> 
>>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty 
>>> cell announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather 
>>> row 17 which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what 
>>> I thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding 
>>> the Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Les
>>> 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi Patrick,
 
 Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
 following, and see if it helps:
 
 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
 DownArrow.
 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
 Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
 + UpArrow.
 
 Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
 macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
 VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
 VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
 In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
 table, which is row 15.
 
 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
 RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
 which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
 suit your preferences.
 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences 
 window, and you are done.
 
 HTH.
 
 - Brad -
 
 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi,
 In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
 changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
 it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
 the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
 time without the date mentioned.
 Thanks.
 Patrick 
 
 
 Come and See
 scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
 
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
 you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
 
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
 
 --- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
 .
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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Patrick Ford]

once at the clock menu - stop interacting and then vo right  and find your 
choices that you need  in the clock  and/or date and time -
Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 11:51 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> Hi Brad,
> Your suggestion is well-taken. I will contact Apple. I am able to get to the 
> clock, I hear Clock Menu Bar but cannot do anything from there. I checked 
> this out, as I felt I had inadvertently misled Patrick. Well, as they say, no 
> good deed goes unpunished. Since I got this far, can you explain how I 
> proceed once reaching the clock Menu bar? By the way, on my system, it is row 
> 17 according to Voiceover. Thanks for the assist and the procedure.
> Best Regards,
> 
> Les
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 11:47 AM, Brad Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Les,
>> 
>> Sorry to hear you are having difficulty following my instructions.
>> The Clock Menu item is the 4th item from the bottom of the table.  There is 
>> no interacting with this item.  You simply stop interacting with the table, 
>> and navigate to the right using VO + RightArrow.
>> Other than VoiceOver not reading items in the table, I find this procedure 
>> works very well.
>> If you have an issue with this process, I suggest you contact Apple, and 
>> share your thoughts with them.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:53, Les Kriegler > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Brad,
>> 
>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
>> announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
>> which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I 
>> thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the 
>> Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>> Best,
>> 
>> Les
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Patrick,
>>> 
>>> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
>>> following, and see if it helps:
>>> 
>>> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
>>> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
>>> DownArrow.
>>> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
>>> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
>>> + UpArrow.
>>> 
>>> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
>>> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
>>> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
>>> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
>>> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
>>> table, which is row 15.
>>> 
>>> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
>>> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
>>> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
>>> suit your preferences.
>>> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
>>> and you are done.
>>> 
>>> HTH.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>>> time without the date mentioned.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Patrick 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Come and See
>>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Patrick Ford]

Hi, yeah I learned this from Wednesday night  on mac buzz - finding the clock 
menu was no issue - my issue is that the choices  are dimmed - 
Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 11:51 AM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Don’t forget guys we  also discussed the alternative method of  navigation 
> without interaction. When you get to the table, do an option down aero, then 
> up aero and you will find the clock menu that way. VO right, and you will see 
> all the options for date and what not.
> Herbie
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
>> use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
>> clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
>> Come and See
>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Brad,
>>> 
>>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty 
>>> cell announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather 
>>> row 17 which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what 
>>> I thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding 
>>> the Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Les
>>> 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi Patrick,
 
 Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
 following, and see if it helps:
 
 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
 DownArrow.
 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
 Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
 + UpArrow.
 
 Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
 macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
 VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
 VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
 In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
 table, which is row 15.
 
 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
 RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
 which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
 suit your preferences.
 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences 
 window, and you are done.
 
 HTH.
 
 - Brad -
 
 
 On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi,
 In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
 changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
 it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
 the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
 time without the date mentioned.
 Thanks.
 Patrick 
 
 
 Come and See
 scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
 
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
 you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
 
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Herbie Allen]

Don’t forget guys we  also discussed the alternative method of  navigation 
without interaction. When you get to the table, do an option down aero, then up 
aero and you will find the clock menu that way. VO right, and you will see all 
the options for date and what not.
Herbie

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford  wrote:
> 
> Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can 
> use command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the 
> clock menu - it's strange but it works  -
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Brad,
>> 
>> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
>> announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
>> which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I 
>> thought was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the 
>> Clock option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one 
>> complaint about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs 
>> to do. I did try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but 
>> again I could not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
>> Best,
>> 
>> Les
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Patrick,
>>> 
>>> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
>>> following, and see if it helps:
>>> 
>>> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
>>> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
>>> DownArrow.
>>> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
>>> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift 
>>> + UpArrow.
>>> 
>>> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
>>> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
>>> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
>>> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
>>> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
>>> table, which is row 15.
>>> 
>>> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
>>> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
>>> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
>>> suit your preferences.
>>> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
>>> and you are done.
>>> 
>>> HTH.
>>> 
>>> - Brad -
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>>> time without the date mentioned.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Patrick 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Come and See
>>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83C84EBA-16A6-479D-B20C-819697F3C7A9%40gmail.com
>>>  
>>> .
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>  
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Brad,
Your suggestion is well-taken. I will contact Apple. I am able to get to the 
clock, I hear Clock Menu Bar but cannot do anything from there. I checked this 
out, as I felt I had inadvertently misled Patrick. Well, as they say, no good 
deed goes unpunished. Since I got this far, can you explain how I proceed once 
reaching the clock Menu bar? By the way, on my system, it is row 17 according 
to Voiceover. Thanks for the assist and the procedure.
Best Regards,

Les

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 11:47 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Hi Les,
> 
> Sorry to hear you are having difficulty following my instructions.
> The Clock Menu item is the 4th item from the bottom of the table.  There is 
> no interacting with this item.  You simply stop interacting with the table, 
> and navigate to the right using VO + RightArrow.
> Other than VoiceOver not reading items in the table, I find this procedure 
> works very well.
> If you have an issue with this process, I suggest you contact Apple, and 
> share your thoughts with them.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:53, Les Kriegler  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Brad,
> 
> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
> announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
> which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I thought 
> was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the Clock 
> option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one complaint 
> about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs to do. I did 
> try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but again I could 
> not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
> Best,
> 
> Les
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Patrick,
>> 
>> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
>> following, and see if it helps:
>> 
>> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
>> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
>> DownArrow.
>> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
>> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift + 
>> UpArrow.
>> 
>> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
>> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
>> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
>> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
>> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
>> table, which is row 15.
>> 
>> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
>> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
>> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
>> suit your preferences.
>> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
>> and you are done.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>> time without the date mentioned.
>> Thanks.
>> Patrick 
>> 
>> 
>> Come and See
>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83C84EBA-16A6-479D-B20C-819697F3C7A9%40gmail.com
>>  
>> 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Brad Snyder]

Yes, this also works.
This is exactly what we discussed in the Mac Buzz last night.

- Brad -


On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:56, Patrick Ford  wrote:

Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can use 
command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the clock menu 
- it's strange but it works  -
Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 


> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Brad,
> 
> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
> announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
> which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I thought 
> was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the Clock 
> option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one complaint 
> about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs to do. I did 
> try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but again I could 
> not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
> Best,
> 
> Les
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Patrick,
>> 
>> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
>> following, and see if it helps:
>> 
>> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
>> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
>> DownArrow.
>> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
>> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift + 
>> UpArrow.
>> 
>> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
>> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
>> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
>> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
>> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
>> table, which is row 15.
>> 
>> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
>> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
>> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
>> suit your preferences.
>> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
>> and you are done.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>> time without the date mentioned.
>> Thanks.
>> Patrick 
>> 
>> 
>> Come and See
>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83C84EBA-16A6-479D-B20C-819697F3C7A9%40gmail.com
>>  
>> .
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>  
>> The archives for 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Brad Snyder]

Hi Les,

Sorry to hear you are having difficulty following my instructions.
The Clock Menu item is the 4th item from the bottom of the table.  There is no 
interacting with this item.  You simply stop interacting with the table, and 
navigate to the right using VO + RightArrow.
Other than VoiceOver not reading items in the table, I find this procedure 
works very well.
If you have an issue with this process, I suggest you contact Apple, and share 
your thoughts with them.

- Brad -


On Nov 18, 2021, at 09:53, Les Kriegler  wrote:

Hi Brad,

Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I thought 
was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the Clock 
option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one complaint about 
Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs to do. I did try 
activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but again I could not 
activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
Best,

Les

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Patrick,
> 
> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the following, 
> and see if it helps:
> 
> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
> DownArrow.
> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift + 
> UpArrow.
> 
> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
> table, which is row 15.
> 
> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
> suit your preferences.
> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
> and you are done.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford  > wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says it 
> is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make the 
> change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the time 
> without the date mentioned.
> Thanks.
> Patrick 
> 
> 
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83C84EBA-16A6-479D-B20C-819697F3C7A9%40gmail.com.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Patrick Ford]

Hi, when you get to the point  in the table after interacting then you can use 
command plus down arrow and then only use the up arrow to get to the clock menu 
- it's strange but it works  -
Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> Hi Brad,
> 
> Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
> announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
> which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I thought 
> was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the Clock 
> option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one complaint 
> about Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs to do. I did 
> try activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but again I could 
> not activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
> Best,
> 
> Les
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Patrick,
>> 
>> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the 
>> following, and see if it helps:
>> 
>> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
>> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
>> DownArrow.
>> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
>> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift + 
>> UpArrow.
>> 
>> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
>> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
>> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
>> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
>> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
>> table, which is row 15.
>> 
>> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
>> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
>> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
>> suit your preferences.
>> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
>> and you are done.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>> time without the date mentioned.
>> Thanks.
>> Patrick 
>> 
>> 
>> Come and See
>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/83C84EBA-16A6-479D-B20C-819697F3C7A9%40gmail.com.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>  
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>> 
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to 

Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Patrick Ford]

Thanks Brad - I learned this from the Mac  Buzz on Wednesday evening  on club 
house - so I am at the point where I Vo right arrow to date options - my 
problem is that all the choices  are dimmed out - voice over is telling me the 
choices are dimmed and some are checked and not checked -0 but all are dimmed 
out - it's strange - I have restarted my mac, which does run monterey -and in 
this doc and menu section there is no locking or unlucking  for changes - so it 
is strange -
Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Hi Patrick,
> 
> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the following, 
> and see if it helps:
> 
> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
> DownArrow.
> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift + 
> UpArrow.
> 
> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
> table, which is row 15.
> 
> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
> suit your preferences.
> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
> and you are done.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford  > wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says it 
> is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make the 
> change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the time 
> without the date mentioned.
> Thanks.
> Patrick 
> 
> 
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> 
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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Brad,

Okay, I tried your steps. I’m running Monterey. When I get to the empty cell 
announcements, I did a VO right arrow. I never heard row 15, rather row 17 
which was the first numbered row spoken. So I went back two to what I thought 
was Row 15 and heard Fast User Switching. Aside from not finding the Clock 
option, this entire procedure seems rather complicated. My one complaint about 
Mac software is the need to interact as often as one needs to do. I did try 
activating items that were referenced as empty cells, but again I could not 
activate the clock. More trouble than it’s worth.
Best,

Les

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Hi Patrick,
> 
> Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the following, 
> and see if it helps:
> 
> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
> 2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
> DownArrow.
> 3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled 
> Clock Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift + 
> UpArrow.
> 
> Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with 
> macOS Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by 
> VoiceOver.  Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, 
> VoiceOver may say Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
> In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
> table, which is row 15.
> 
> 4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
> RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, 
> which is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to 
> suit your preferences.
> 5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, 
> and you are done.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford  > wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says it 
> is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make the 
> change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the time 
> without the date mentioned.
> Thanks.
> Patrick 
> 
> 
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io 
> 
> 
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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Brad Snyder]

Hi Patrick,

Assuming you are running either macOS Big Sur or Monterey, try the following, 
and see if it helps:

1.  Go to System Preferences > Dock & Menu Bar.
2.  Navigate to the table, and interact with the table using VO + Shift + 
DownArrow.
3.  Once you have interacted with the table, navigate to the item labeled Clock 
Menu Bar, and stop interacting with the table by pressing VO + Shift + UpArrow.

Note: There seems to be a VoiceOver issue when navigating this table with macOS 
Monterey, in that labels for some table items are not spoken by VoiceOver.  
Instead of speaking the correct label name for some items, VoiceOver may say 
Empty Cell, or VoiceOver may speak a row number.
In any case, the Clock Menu Bar item is the 4th row from the bottom of the 
table, which is row 15.

4.  Once you have stoped interacting with the table, navigate using VO + 
RightArrow, until you hear VoiceOver speak Clock, and then Date Options, which 
is followed by several items, that can be selected or unselected to suit your 
preferences.
5.  Once you have made your selection, close the System Preferences window, and 
you are done.

HTH.

- Brad -


On Nov 18, 2021, at 05:52, Patrick Ford  wrote:

Hi,
In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says it 
is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make the 
change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the time 
without the date mentioned.
Thanks.
Patrick 


Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io

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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Les Kriegler]

Well, I understand what you are talking about now. When I unlocked, the only 
option I saw was to set time automatically and that was checked. I could not 
locate an option to change the hour and date manually.
Best,

Les

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Patrick Ford  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for your reply. The clock menu is under the doc and menu tab in system 
> preferences. When I open this, there is a date option section, and the 
> preferences under this are dimmed. Where you sent me, and I did go there and 
> unlock, the clock menu is not available there. 
> Patrick 
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 8:00 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Patrick,
>> Okay, go into System Preferences and choose Date and Time. Use your tab key 
>> until you find the option for Click the Lock to make changes. Make your 
>> changes and then choose the same option to lock that setting to prevent 
>> further changes. Hope this helps.
>> Best,
>> 
>> Les
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 6:52 AM, Patrick Ford  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>>> time without the date mentioned.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Patrick 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Come and See
>>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> Visionaries list.
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>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>> 
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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Patrick Ford]

Thanks for your reply. The clock menu is under the doc and menu tab in system 
preferences. When I open this, there is a date option section, and the 
preferences under this are dimmed. Where you sent me, and I did go there and 
unlock, the clock menu is not available there. 
Patrick 
Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 8:00 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> Hi Patrick,
> Okay, go into System Preferences and choose Date and Time. Use your tab key 
> until you find the option for Click the Lock to make changes. Make your 
> changes and then choose the same option to lock that setting to prevent 
> further changes. Hope this helps.
> Best,
> 
> Les
> 
>> On Nov 18, 2021, at 6:52 AM, Patrick Ford  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
>> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says 
>> it is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make 
>> the change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the 
>> time without the date mentioned.
>> Thanks.
>> Patrick 
>> 
>> 
>> Come and See
>> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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Re: clock menu in system preferences - help

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Patrick,
Okay, go into System Preferences and choose Date and Time. Use your tab key 
until you find the option for Click the Lock to make changes. Make your changes 
and then choose the same option to lock that setting to prevent further 
changes. Hope this helps.
Best,

Les

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 6:52 AM, Patrick Ford  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
> changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says it 
> is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make the 
> change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the time 
> without the date mentioned.
> Thanks.
> Patrick 
> 
> 
> Come and See
> scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io
> 
> -- 
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> list.
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> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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clock menu in system preferences - help

[Patrick Ford]

Hi,
In the clock menu of doc and menus in system preferences I cannot make any 
changes. As I VO right arrow to make a change to the date and time it says it 
is dimmed and checked and some say dimmed and unchecked. How do I make the 
change I wish to make? I know there is a way to have Seri just say the time 
without the date mentioned.
Thanks.
Patrick 


Come and See
scripturepassage-subscr...@groups.io

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Terminal will not shut up even when i'm in another window

[Michael Marshall]

hey all,
I run a series of terminal commands to separate audio files using demucs.
This is quite a long process and today, a strange problem has started, it could 
be the system update but even when I'm not in the terminal window, VO still 
tells me what is going on in terminal.
This can be at best annoying and at worst, extremely distracting when you're 
trying to do something.
Has anyone else ever come across this? Any help would be greatly appreciated

thanks


Michael

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mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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