Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Thanks to everybody else who got in touch to help me with this situation. I 
will explain in detail the DRM at the end of the post, so people living in 
restricted countries can tune out and avoid the thought police, but you all 
played your part in helping me understand how it worked.

My brother got his account back. For whatever reason, his pleading with Amazon 
got his account reopened. Maybe it was that he mentioned that he was blind. The 
memo went all the way up to the CEO of Amazon in the UK, which might have meant 
that the RNIB got involved after all. Whatever the reason, he can now log in to 
his account, make and return purchases and access his Audible content on any 
device once again. Cheers all round. Well, except for the disappointment that 
is DRM, of course. I'll never be grateful for that. We've all learned an 
important lesson. As soon as my brother gets the gumption together, and now 
that he has the time, I'm going to help him download all his books and strip 
out the DRM. That way this can't happen to him again.

For myself, I have already completely stripped the DRM from my Audible books 
collection, with no loss of quality whatsoever, and maintaining the original 
format and encoding. I was too late to return my Audible credits, but I would 
have, if I could have; Amazon didn't notify me, in December, when the renewal 
happened, and you only get 14 days to cancel your membership. Dirty trick, 
that. Still, with these credits on hand, I might as well stock up on books that 
I've already paid for. The removal of the DRM means, quite simply, that Audible 
has a great deal more value to me than it otherwise would have. I can buy 
timeless books I will actually value for eternity because they don't have DRM 
to make them rot, I can get access to Audible exclusives, and I can use my USB 
MP3 player to play the books in the other room, which ironically probably means 
I'll have more time for listening. Naturally, though, I don't reward bad 
behaviour when I can possibly help it, so I'm going to try and avoid them for 
new purchases, just as I promised to. These bastards can only hurt people 
because we let them, so I'm going to try the various alternatives that have 
been suggested, particularly Downpour. Oh, and no, piracy isn't an option I'm 
happy with, no matter the provocation; at best it's something to be resorted to 
if there are no other options for obtaining the content and there is a 
specific, compelling reason to have it.

Now, what follows is a discussion of the DRM itself. If you're living in an 
uncivilised nation where corporations write the rules (i.e. the US), then you 
can stop reading now and avoid a visit from the thought police.

The tool of choice is called Inaudible. It is somewhat hard to find, but 
happily, the news is spreading, if you know where to look, and as always, 
especially among Open Sourcerers who don't mind getting their hands dirty. It 
can perform lossless decryption of Audible book files. The latest format, 
Audible Enhanced (file extension .aax) is an MPEG4 container with chapter 
markings in the metadata atoms, encrypted with a per-subscriber key. On 
Windows, Inaudible is pretty much a point-and-click affair, and can be 
automated entirely. On OS X, Inaudible includes the tools required, but not the 
shell scripting knowledge to do bulk conversions, and its UI seems to be 
limited specifically to converting one book at a time, although it is still 
useful for discovering keys and testing the tools.

The basic idea of breaking the DRM is first to find your four-byte "Activation 
secret" and then to convert the audible file into a regular MPEG4 container 
using that secret. The secret is the golden key with which your files are 
encrypted for all of a subscriber's files. There are three ways to find it: 
from your existing player, from Audible's own activation server, and by 
brute-force. Inaudible seems to be using the third method, and has rainbow 
tables with precomputed keys and a custom implementation for the Audible 
algorithm for the open-source rcrack tool. It seems to work well, even without 
access to iTunes or Audible Manager, as was apparently required in the past. I 
suppose we should be glad that DRM purveyors are stupid as well as malicious; 
the key is 64 bits and is usually found in seconds. However, for a fully 
networked solution, there is the "Audible activator" from the same open-source 
inaudible-ng project--basically a tool for sending the username and password 
query to Audible's server for activation, just as your client would.

Now you have your secret, store it away in a safe place. This is your ultimate 
weapon, together with your Audible files, if you should get disconnected from 
Audible. Next comes the actual decryption process. This part I learned from the 
Mac Inaudible tool: ffmpeg is, as it is so often, your friend. Ffmpeg is a 
well-known general-purpose audio/video manipulation tool. The Audible format is 

Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil

[Caitlyn Furness]

Eric,
Thanks much for all these great resources!
Cait

> On Feb 15, 2016, at 3:00 PM, erik burggraaf  wrote:
> 
> May I suggest:
> http://www.downpour.com 
> http://www.tantor.com 
> http://www.booksinmotion.com 
> http://www.emusic.com/book-genres/audiobook/ 
> 
> 
> Also, while I'm not a fan of physical media too much any more, many books 
> that can't be purchased drm-free can be purchased as mp3 cd's.
> http://www.audiobookstand.com 
> 
> I am eternally thankful that I never bought into a DRM of any kind.  If any 
> one knows of other places to get DRM free audiobooks, I'd love  to hear about 
> it.  My list is sorted in order of frequency used.  Emusic is at the bottom 
> for two reasons.  First, their smart phone app is only available in the US 
> and the UK.  Second, the smart phone app only supports music, not audiobooks. 
>  And finally, Emusic closed it's customer service call centre.  So, I would 
> avoid that one, but the other three are really really good.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Erik Burggraaf
> 
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2016, at 2:43 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu > > wrote:
>> 
>> Amazon have closed my brother's account because he was returning too many 
>> articles to them. He'd apparently crossed some sacred threshold or 
>> other--presumably one calculated to be the least profitable to Amazon--with 
>> the result that he can no longer log in to his account.
>> 
>> And you'll never guess what that means for his very handsome collection of 
>> Audible books.
>> 
>> Go on, take a guess. You'll probably get it first time ...
>> 
>> The DRM on Audible content requires that any device obtain a key from 
>> Amazon, after logging in to an account. Any device already possessing that 
>> key can of course continue to download and play any content, but without 
>> logging in, a new device cannot obtain the key. Amazon have made it very 
>> clear to my brother that they have no intention of allowing him further 
>> access to his account. So Amazon has put an effective end-of-life date on 
>> all of my brother's Audible "Purchases"; as soon as he resets the devices, 
>> sells and replaces them, etc, his Audible collection will be no more.
>> 
>> I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that DRM is 
>> thoroughly and fundamentally evil. It's wicked. It's corrupt. It's 
>> iniquitous. And it's not about piracy at all, it's about control. You don't 
>> own the things you "buy" if the content is locked with a key you don't have 
>> and can't get. The true owner is simply parting you from your money with the 
>> vague promise of letting you use the key, which they endeavour to keep you 
>> from discovering, lest you use it in ways not approved by the owner--for 
>> instance by unlocking your digital content permanently and thus freeing 
>> yourself from the owner's grip--but which they will make available to you 
>> while using software that they trust to protect their, and not your, 
>> interests. And of course, the owner always has the option of not letting you 
>> use your key at all, by telling the server not to give it to the software. 
>> While your decryption key is in their hands, anything might happen to your 
>> content, at any time, even if the owner promises to the contrary.
>> 
>> This racket is only possible because we give these content distributors the 
>> money to enable it--to write the software that keeps the keys safe from 
>> discovery while in your hands, to write laws that prohibit people from 
>> breaking the software to access the content without use of that software, 
>> and to criminalise perfectly legitimate uses of content that are 
>> inconvenient for the bottom line, but that are recognised by copyright and 
>> common sense as being reasonable and fair. I sincerely hope you take 
>> something from this incident, as I surely do, with something like this so 
>> close to home happening, and I hope you'll be willing to think carefully 
>> about whose business practices you'll be willing to support if you have the 
>> choice. I understand that we don't all have the choice to exercise all the 
>> time, and that it's easy to make up excuses and pray that it never happens 
>> to us. I'd say that this was particularly true for blind people and those 
>> with other reading challenges, because the selection of material is already 
>> very limited. Audible makes a fantastic, sometimes exclusive collection of 
>> audiobooks available.
>> 
>> But they, and any other DRM pedaler, simply cannot be trusted. I have made 
>> it a habit never to value any protected content too highly, and I'm 
>> gratified to see the truth in it, sad as I am for my brother's plight. For 
>> your own sake, wherever possible, you should make arrangements to avoid DRM. 
>> Try not to purchase 

Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

DRM, Digital rights Management.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jessica Moss 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 9:25 PM
  Subject: Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil


  What is drm, and what do you find wrong with it?  I've heard that mentioned, 
and think I found something with that extention when I used to transfer music 
files onto my windows mobile phone, when I used to use one, but never opened 
them.

  On Feb 15, 2016, at 3:00 PM, erik burggraaf <e...@erik-burggraaf.com> wrote:


May I suggest:
http://www.downpour.com
http://www.tantor.com
http://www.booksinmotion.com
http://www.emusic.com/book-genres/audiobook/


Also, while I'm not a fan of physical media too much any more, many books 
that can't be purchased drm-free can be purchased as mp3 cd's.
http://www.audiobookstand.com


I am eternally thankful that I never bought into a DRM of any kind.  If any 
one knows of other places to get DRM free audiobooks, I'd love  to hear about 
it.  My list is sorted in order of frequency used.  Emusic is at the bottom for 
two reasons.  First, their smart phone app is only available in the US and the 
UK.  Second, the smart phone app only supports music, not audiobooks.  And 
finally, Emusic closed it's customer service call centre.  So, I would avoid 
that one, but the other three are really really good.


Best,


Erik Burggraaf




  On Feb 15, 2016, at 2:43 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listse...@me.com> 
wrote:


  Amazon have closed my brother's account because he was returning too many 
articles to them. He'd apparently crossed some sacred threshold or 
other--presumably one calculated to be the least profitable to Amazon--with the 
result that he can no longer log in to his account.

  And you'll never guess what that means for his very handsome collection 
of Audible books.

  Go on, take a guess. You'll probably get it first time ...

  The DRM on Audible content requires that any device obtain a key from 
Amazon, after logging in to an account. Any device already possessing that key 
can of course continue to download and play any content, but without logging 
in, a new device cannot obtain the key. Amazon have made it very clear to my 
brother that they have no intention of allowing him further access to his 
account. So Amazon has put an effective end-of-life date on all of my brother's 
Audible "Purchases"; as soon as he resets the devices, sells and replaces them, 
etc, his Audible collection will be no more.

  I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that DRM is 
thoroughly and fundamentally evil. It's wicked. It's corrupt. It's iniquitous. 
And it's not about piracy at all, it's about control. You don't own the things 
you "buy" if the content is locked with a key you don't have and can't get. The 
true owner is simply parting you from your money with the vague promise of 
letting you use the key, which they endeavour to keep you from discovering, 
lest you use it in ways not approved by the owner--for instance by unlocking 
your digital content permanently and thus freeing yourself from the owner's 
grip--but which they will make available to you while using software that they 
trust to protect their, and not your, interests. And of course, the owner 
always has the option of not letting you use your key at all, by telling the 
server not to give it to the software. While your decryption key is in their 
hands, anything might happen to your content, at any time, even if the owner 
promises to the contrary.

  This racket is only possible because we give these content distributors 
the money to enable it--to write the software that keeps the keys safe from 
discovery while in your hands, to write laws that prohibit people from breaking 
the software to access the content without use of that software, and to 
criminalise perfectly legitimate uses of content that are inconvenient for the 
bottom line, but that are recognised by copyright and common sense as being 
reasonable and fair. I sincerely hope you take something from this incident, as 
I surely do, with something like this so close to home happening, and I hope 
you'll be willing to think carefully about whose business practices you'll be 
willing to support if you have the choice. I understand that we don't all have 
the choice to exercise all the time, and that it's easy to make up excuses and 
pray that it never happens to us. I'd say that this was particularly true for 
blind people and those with other reading challenges, because the selection of 
material is already very limited. Audible makes a fantastic, sometimes 
exclusive collection of audiobooks available.

  But they, and any other DRM pedaler, simply cannot be trusted. I have 
made it a habit never to value any protected content too highly, and I'm 
gratified to see the truth in it, sad

Re: O/T what is drm was Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil

['Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries]

Of course in the states we also have DCMA which says that the mere act 
of breaking encryption (the basis of many DRM schemes) is illegal. So if 
you buy a DVD and wish to make a copy so you can extract the audio 
tracks, copy it to your favorite iDevice or just have a backup in case 
the original gets scratched, making that copy breaks the law because you 
have to break the encryption to do so.


CB

On 2/15/16 9:52 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

Hi Jessica,

DRM stands for digital rights management.  In other words, digital 
licencing strategies that restrict how media is distributed online and 
policies that govern how you access your data.  DRM's usually take the 
form of security encryption that prevents you from making copies of 
digital files.  Essentially, the licencer sells you the file and the 
right to use it in certain ways but not others.  In order to enforce 
the policy you only receive access to the encryption key as long as 
you are operating within usage guidelines determined by the 
distributer.  For example, you may only have the key for a set number 
of devices, usually 3 or 5.  In this case, you may only have the key 
as long as the username and password for a major shopping conglomerant 
which you used to purchase rights remains active.  Should your 
username and password be revoked for reasons not related to your use 
of the content... Well...  too bad.


Early DRM's took the form of rootkits, major legal and personal 
security violations which essentially gave the distributers of digital 
content a level of access to end user computers that even the users 
themselves didn't have in order to control the number of copies made 
of digital material.


Later DRM's were less threatening, but only worked on specigic types 
of equipment.  IE, you could only use your purchases on windows.


DRM's are fraught with accessibility concerns.  For example, DRM's 
that prevent you from copying the text of an ebook you purchased also 
prevent the content from being exposed to a screen reader so that you 
can use it with speech and braille.


Nowadays drm's are a lot more user friendly and less restrictive, 
which makes them even easier to break than the original flavours, and 
so of course, those with a bent for such things break the drm's on a 
regular basis, while those without such pentients have to spend hours 
on the phone recovering their keys when their authorized device falls 
in the toilet and dies.


regardless of how you feel about the sharing of intelectual property 
online, it's very tough to make a case in favour of DRM's.


Erik Burggraaf


On Feb 15, 2016, at 9:25 PM, Jessica Moss > wrote:


What is drm, and what do you find wrong with it?  I've heard that 
mentioned, and think I found something with that extention when I 
used to transfer music files onto my windows mobile phone, when I 
used to use one, but never opened them.
On Feb 15, 2016, at 3:00 PM, erik burggraaf > wrote:



May I suggest:
http://www.downpour.com 
http://www.tantor.com 
http://www.booksinmotion.com 
http://www.emusic.com/book-genres/audiobook/

Also, while I'm not a fan of physical media too much any more, many 
books that can't be purchased drm-free can be purchased as mp3 cd's.

http://www.audiobookstand.com 

I am eternally thankful that I never bought into a DRM of any kind. 
 If any one knows of other places to get DRM free audiobooks, I'd 
love  to hear about it.  My list is sorted in order of frequency 
used.  Emusic is at the bottom for two reasons.  First, their smart 
phone app is only available in the US and the UK.  Second, the smart 
phone app only supports music, not audiobooks.  And finally, Emusic 
closed it's customer service call centre.  So, I would avoid that 
one, but the other three are really really good.


Best,

Erik Burggraaf


On Feb 15, 2016, at 2:43 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu > wrote:


Amazon have closed my brother's account because he was returning 
too many articles to them. He'd apparently crossed some sacred 
threshold or other--presumably one calculated to be the least 
profitable to Amazon--with the result that he can no longer log in 
to his account.


And you'll never guess what that means for his very handsome 
collection of Audible books.


Go on, take a guess. You'll probably get it first time ...

The DRM on Audible content requires that any device obtain a key 
from Amazon, after logging in to an account. Any device already 
possessing that key can of course continue to download and play any 
content, but without logging in, a new device cannot obtain the 
key. Amazon have made it very clear to my brother that they have no 
intention of allowing him further access to his account. So Amazon 
has put 

O/T what is drm was Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil

[erik burggraaf]

Hi Jessica,

DRM stands for digital rights management.  In other words, digital licencing 
strategies that restrict how media is distributed online and policies that 
govern how you access your data.  DRM's usually take the form of security 
encryption that prevents you from making copies of digital files.  Essentially, 
the licencer sells you the file and the right to use it in certain ways but not 
others.  In order to enforce the policy you only receive access to the 
encryption key as long as you are operating within usage guidelines determined 
by the distributer.  For example, you may only have the key for a set number of 
devices, usually 3 or 5.  In this case, you may only have the key as long as 
the username and password for a major shopping conglomerant which you used to 
purchase rights remains active.  Should your username and password be revoked 
for reasons not related to your use of the content... Well...  too bad.

Early DRM's took the form of rootkits, major legal and personal security 
violations which essentially gave the distributers of digital content a level 
of access to end user computers that even the users themselves didn't have in 
order to control the number of copies made of digital material.

Later DRM's were less threatening, but only worked on specigic types of 
equipment.  IE, you could only use your purchases on windows.

DRM's are fraught with accessibility concerns.  For example, DRM's that prevent 
you from copying the text of an ebook you purchased also prevent the content 
from being exposed to a screen reader so that you can use it with speech and 
braille.

Nowadays drm's are a lot more user friendly and less restrictive, which makes 
them even easier to break than the original flavours, and so of course, those 
with a bent for such things break the drm's on a regular basis, while those 
without such pentients have to spend hours on the phone recovering their keys 
when their authorized device falls in the toilet and dies.

regardless of how you feel about the sharing of intelectual property online, 
it's very tough to make a case in favour of DRM's.

Erik Burggraaf


> On Feb 15, 2016, at 9:25 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> What is drm, and what do you find wrong with it?  I've heard that mentioned, 
> and think I found something with that extention when I used to transfer music 
> files onto my windows mobile phone, when I used to use one, but never opened 
> them.
> On Feb 15, 2016, at 3:00 PM, erik burggraaf  > wrote:
> 
>> May I suggest:
>> http://www.downpour.com 
>> http://www.tantor.com 
>> http://www.booksinmotion.com 
>> http://www.emusic.com/book-genres/audiobook/ 
>> 
>> 
>> Also, while I'm not a fan of physical media too much any more, many books 
>> that can't be purchased drm-free can be purchased as mp3 cd's.
>> http://www.audiobookstand.com 
>> 
>> I am eternally thankful that I never bought into a DRM of any kind.  If any 
>> one knows of other places to get DRM free audiobooks, I'd love  to hear 
>> about it.  My list is sorted in order of frequency used.  Emusic is at the 
>> bottom for two reasons.  First, their smart phone app is only available in 
>> the US and the UK.  Second, the smart phone app only supports music, not 
>> audiobooks.  And finally, Emusic closed it's customer service call centre.  
>> So, I would avoid that one, but the other three are really really good.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Erik Burggraaf
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 15, 2016, at 2:43 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Amazon have closed my brother's account because he was returning too many 
>>> articles to them. He'd apparently crossed some sacred threshold or 
>>> other--presumably one calculated to be the least profitable to Amazon--with 
>>> the result that he can no longer log in to his account.
>>> 
>>> And you'll never guess what that means for his very handsome collection of 
>>> Audible books.
>>> 
>>> Go on, take a guess. You'll probably get it first time ...
>>> 
>>> The DRM on Audible content requires that any device obtain a key from 
>>> Amazon, after logging in to an account. Any device already possessing that 
>>> key can of course continue to download and play any content, but without 
>>> logging in, a new device cannot obtain the key. Amazon have made it very 
>>> clear to my brother that they have no intention of allowing him further 
>>> access to his account. So Amazon has put an effective end-of-life date on 
>>> all of my brother's Audible "Purchases"; as soon as he resets the devices, 
>>> sells and replaces them, etc, his Audible collection will be no more.
>>> 
>>> I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that DRM is 
>>> thoroughly and 

Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil

[Ryan Mann]

DRM stands for digital rights management.  If music or audio files are 
protected by DRM can only be played on computers that are authorized to play 
them.  This means that you can't just copy these files to a flash drive and 
copy them to another computer. Does this make sense?
PS, did you go to the Florida School for the blind?
Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2016, at 9:25 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> What is drm, and what do you find wrong with it?  I've heard that mentioned, 
> and think I found something with that extention when I used to transfer music 
> files onto my windows mobile phone, when I used to use one, but never opened 
> them.
>> On Feb 15, 2016, at 3:00 PM, erik burggraaf  wrote:
>> 
>> May I suggest:
>> http://www.downpour.com
>> http://www.tantor.com
>> http://www.booksinmotion.com
>> http://www.emusic.com/book-genres/audiobook/
>> 
>> Also, while I'm not a fan of physical media too much any more, many books 
>> that can't be purchased drm-free can be purchased as mp3 cd's.
>> http://www.audiobookstand.com
>> 
>> I am eternally thankful that I never bought into a DRM of any kind.  If any 
>> one knows of other places to get DRM free audiobooks, I'd love  to hear 
>> about it.  My list is sorted in order of frequency used.  Emusic is at the 
>> bottom for two reasons.  First, their smart phone app is only available in 
>> the US and the UK.  Second, the smart phone app only supports music, not 
>> audiobooks.  And finally, Emusic closed it's customer service call centre.  
>> So, I would avoid that one, but the other three are really really good.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Erik Burggraaf
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 15, 2016, at 2:43 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Amazon have closed my brother's account because he was returning too many 
>>> articles to them. He'd apparently crossed some sacred threshold or 
>>> other--presumably one calculated to be the least profitable to Amazon--with 
>>> the result that he can no longer log in to his account.
>>> 
>>> And you'll never guess what that means for his very handsome collection of 
>>> Audible books.
>>> 
>>> Go on, take a guess. You'll probably get it first time ...
>>> 
>>> The DRM on Audible content requires that any device obtain a key from 
>>> Amazon, after logging in to an account. Any device already possessing that 
>>> key can of course continue to download and play any content, but without 
>>> logging in, a new device cannot obtain the key. Amazon have made it very 
>>> clear to my brother that they have no intention of allowing him further 
>>> access to his account. So Amazon has put an effective end-of-life date on 
>>> all of my brother's Audible "Purchases"; as soon as he resets the devices, 
>>> sells and replaces them, etc, his Audible collection will be no more.
>>> 
>>> I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that DRM is 
>>> thoroughly and fundamentally evil. It's wicked. It's corrupt. It's 
>>> iniquitous. And it's not about piracy at all, it's about control. You don't 
>>> own the things you "buy" if the content is locked with a key you don't have 
>>> and can't get. The true owner is simply parting you from your money with 
>>> the vague promise of letting you use the key, which they endeavour to keep 
>>> you from discovering, lest you use it in ways not approved by the 
>>> owner--for instance by unlocking your digital content permanently and thus 
>>> freeing yourself from the owner's grip--but which they will make available 
>>> to you while using software that they trust to protect their, and not your, 
>>> interests. And of course, the owner always has the option of not letting 
>>> you use your key at all, by telling the server not to give it to the 
>>> software. While your decryption key is in their hands, anything might 
>>> happen to your content, at any time, even if the owner promises to the 
>>> contrary.
>>> 
>>> This racket is only possible because we give these content distributors the 
>>> money to enable it--to write the software that keeps the keys safe from 
>>> discovery while in your hands, to write laws that prohibit people from 
>>> breaking the software to access the content without use of that software, 
>>> and to criminalise perfectly legitimate uses of content that are 
>>> inconvenient for the bottom line, but that are recognised by copyright and 
>>> common sense as being reasonable and fair. I sincerely hope you take 
>>> something from this incident, as I surely do, with something like this so 
>>> close to home happening, and I hope you'll be willing to think carefully 
>>> about whose business practices you'll be willing to support if you have the 
>>> choice. I understand that we don't all have the choice to exercise all the 
>>> time, and that it's easy to make up excuses and pray that it never happens 
>>> to us. I'd say that this was particularly true for blind people and those 
>>> with 

Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil

[Jessica Moss]

What is drm, and what do you find wrong with it?  I've heard that mentioned, 
and think I found something with that extention when I used to transfer music 
files onto my windows mobile phone, when I used to use one, but never opened 
them.
On Feb 15, 2016, at 3:00 PM, erik burggraaf  wrote:

> May I suggest:
> http://www.downpour.com
> http://www.tantor.com
> http://www.booksinmotion.com
> http://www.emusic.com/book-genres/audiobook/
> 
> Also, while I'm not a fan of physical media too much any more, many books 
> that can't be purchased drm-free can be purchased as mp3 cd's.
> http://www.audiobookstand.com
> 
> I am eternally thankful that I never bought into a DRM of any kind.  If any 
> one knows of other places to get DRM free audiobooks, I'd love  to hear about 
> it.  My list is sorted in order of frequency used.  Emusic is at the bottom 
> for two reasons.  First, their smart phone app is only available in the US 
> and the UK.  Second, the smart phone app only supports music, not audiobooks. 
>  And finally, Emusic closed it's customer service call centre.  So, I would 
> avoid that one, but the other three are really really good.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Erik Burggraaf
> 
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2016, at 2:43 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Amazon have closed my brother's account because he was returning too many 
>> articles to them. He'd apparently crossed some sacred threshold or 
>> other--presumably one calculated to be the least profitable to Amazon--with 
>> the result that he can no longer log in to his account.
>> 
>> And you'll never guess what that means for his very handsome collection of 
>> Audible books.
>> 
>> Go on, take a guess. You'll probably get it first time ...
>> 
>> The DRM on Audible content requires that any device obtain a key from 
>> Amazon, after logging in to an account. Any device already possessing that 
>> key can of course continue to download and play any content, but without 
>> logging in, a new device cannot obtain the key. Amazon have made it very 
>> clear to my brother that they have no intention of allowing him further 
>> access to his account. So Amazon has put an effective end-of-life date on 
>> all of my brother's Audible "Purchases"; as soon as he resets the devices, 
>> sells and replaces them, etc, his Audible collection will be no more.
>> 
>> I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that DRM is 
>> thoroughly and fundamentally evil. It's wicked. It's corrupt. It's 
>> iniquitous. And it's not about piracy at all, it's about control. You don't 
>> own the things you "buy" if the content is locked with a key you don't have 
>> and can't get. The true owner is simply parting you from your money with the 
>> vague promise of letting you use the key, which they endeavour to keep you 
>> from discovering, lest you use it in ways not approved by the owner--for 
>> instance by unlocking your digital content permanently and thus freeing 
>> yourself from the owner's grip--but which they will make available to you 
>> while using software that they trust to protect their, and not your, 
>> interests. And of course, the owner always has the option of not letting you 
>> use your key at all, by telling the server not to give it to the software. 
>> While your decryption key is in their hands, anything might happen to your 
>> content, at any time, even if the owner promises to the contrary.
>> 
>> This racket is only possible because we give these content distributors the 
>> money to enable it--to write the software that keeps the keys safe from 
>> discovery while in your hands, to write laws that prohibit people from 
>> breaking the software to access the content without use of that software, 
>> and to criminalise perfectly legitimate uses of content that are 
>> inconvenient for the bottom line, but that are recognised by copyright and 
>> common sense as being reasonable and fair. I sincerely hope you take 
>> something from this incident, as I surely do, with something like this so 
>> close to home happening, and I hope you'll be willing to think carefully 
>> about whose business practices you'll be willing to support if you have the 
>> choice. I understand that we don't all have the choice to exercise all the 
>> time, and that it's easy to make up excuses and pray that it never happens 
>> to us. I'd say that this was particularly true for blind people and those 
>> with other reading challenges, because the selection of material is already 
>> very limited. Audible makes a fantastic, sometimes exclusive collection of 
>> audiobooks available.
>> 
>> But they, and any other DRM pedaler, simply cannot be trusted. I have made 
>> it a habit never to value any protected content too highly, and I'm 
>> gratified to see the truth in it, sad as I am for my brother's plight. For 
>> your own sake, wherever possible, you should make arrangements to avoid DRM. 
>> Try not to purchase anything you 

Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Thanks for the list Erik.  Actually, I’m familiar with some of these, 
particularly Downpour, but because Audible often turned up stuff not available 
there, I’d be come a bit complacent in checking.  Will be far more vigilant 
going forward, of course.  I still buy CDs, if it means avoiding DRM, and 
that’s still an option, although of course I’d much rather DRM just died a 
horrible, fiery death.  Audible’s “Enhanced” format files are merely encrypted 
m4b files.

Yes Sharon, I too have a Victor Reader Stream and a copy of my decryption key, 
so as long as I maintain that device all the Audible books I own (which I have 
downloaded) will still have a life until at least that Stream dies.  My 
brother, unfortunately, was completely reliant on the smartphone app, and is 
thus relying on his existing session.  Unless he jailbroke his device, there’d 
be no way to benefit from that, as far as I can see.  Yay sandboxing.

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Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil

[Sharon Hooley]

I value how-to material and generally prefer  to keep them on my Victor Reader. 
 All other kinds of books I read I am less likely to care about retrieving 
again.  That might be one way to protect yourself from losing as much valuable 
content, unless of course storing them this way would be  illegal.


Sharon H.

> On Feb 15, 2016, at 1:00 PM, erik burggraaf  wrote:
> 
> May I suggest:
> http://www.downpour.com
> http://www.tantor.com
> http://www.booksinmotion.com
> http://www.emusic.com/book-genres/audiobook/
> 
> Also, while I'm not a fan of physical media too much any more, many books 
> that can't be purchased drm-free can be purchased as mp3 cd's.
> http://www.audiobookstand.com
> 
> I am eternally thankful that I never bought into a DRM of any kind.  If any 
> one knows of other places to get DRM free audiobooks, I'd love  to hear about 
> it.  My list is sorted in order of frequency used.  Emusic is at the bottom 
> for two reasons.  First, their smart phone app is only available in the US 
> and the UK.  Second, the smart phone app only supports music, not audiobooks. 
>  And finally, Emusic closed it's customer service call centre.  So, I would 
> avoid that one, but the other three are really really good.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Erik Burggraaf
> 
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2016, at 2:43 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Amazon have closed my brother's account because he was returning too many 
>> articles to them. He'd apparently crossed some sacred threshold or 
>> other--presumably one calculated to be the least profitable to Amazon--with 
>> the result that he can no longer log in to his account.
>> 
>> And you'll never guess what that means for his very handsome collection of 
>> Audible books.
>> 
>> Go on, take a guess. You'll probably get it first time ...
>> 
>> The DRM on Audible content requires that any device obtain a key from 
>> Amazon, after logging in to an account. Any device already possessing that 
>> key can of course continue to download and play any content, but without 
>> logging in, a new device cannot obtain the key. Amazon have made it very 
>> clear to my brother that they have no intention of allowing him further 
>> access to his account. So Amazon has put an effective end-of-life date on 
>> all of my brother's Audible "Purchases"; as soon as he resets the devices, 
>> sells and replaces them, etc, his Audible collection will be no more.
>> 
>> I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that DRM is 
>> thoroughly and fundamentally evil. It's wicked. It's corrupt. It's 
>> iniquitous. And it's not about piracy at all, it's about control. You don't 
>> own the things you "buy" if the content is locked with a key you don't have 
>> and can't get. The true owner is simply parting you from your money with the 
>> vague promise of letting you use the key, which they endeavour to keep you 
>> from discovering, lest you use it in ways not approved by the owner--for 
>> instance by unlocking your digital content permanently and thus freeing 
>> yourself from the owner's grip--but which they will make available to you 
>> while using software that they trust to protect their, and not your, 
>> interests. And of course, the owner always has the option of not letting you 
>> use your key at all, by telling the server not to give it to the software. 
>> While your decryption key is in their hands, anything might happen to your 
>> content, at any time, even if the owner promises to the contrary.
>> 
>> This racket is only possible because we give these content distributors the 
>> money to enable it--to write the software that keeps the keys safe from 
>> discovery while in your hands, to write laws that prohibit people from 
>> breaking the software to access the content without use of that software, 
>> and to criminalise perfectly legitimate uses of content that are 
>> inconvenient for the bottom line, but that are recognised by copyright and 
>> common sense as being reasonable and fair. I sincerely hope you take 
>> something from this incident, as I surely do, with something like this so 
>> close to home happening, and I hope you'll be willing to think carefully 
>> about whose business practices you'll be willing to support if you have the 
>> choice. I understand that we don't all have the choice to exercise all the 
>> time, and that it's easy to make up excuses and pray that it never happens 
>> to us. I'd say that this was particularly true for blind people and those 
>> with other reading challenges, because the selection of material is already 
>> very limited. Audible makes a fantastic, sometimes exclusive collection of 
>> audiobooks available.
>> 
>> But they, and any other DRM pedaler, simply cannot be trusted. I have made 
>> it a habit never to value any protected content too highly, and I'm 
>> gratified to see the truth in it, sad as I am for my brother's plight. For 
>> your own sake, wherever possible, 

Re: FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil

[erik burggraaf]

May I suggest:
http://www.downpour.com
http://www.tantor.com
http://www.booksinmotion.com
http://www.emusic.com/book-genres/audiobook/

Also, while I'm not a fan of physical media too much any more, many books that 
can't be purchased drm-free can be purchased as mp3 cd's.
http://www.audiobookstand.com

I am eternally thankful that I never bought into a DRM of any kind.  If any one 
knows of other places to get DRM free audiobooks, I'd love  to hear about it.  
My list is sorted in order of frequency used.  Emusic is at the bottom for two 
reasons.  First, their smart phone app is only available in the US and the UK.  
Second, the smart phone app only supports music, not audiobooks.  And finally, 
Emusic closed it's customer service call centre.  So, I would avoid that one, 
but the other three are really really good.

Best,

Erik Burggraaf


> On Feb 15, 2016, at 2:43 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Amazon have closed my brother's account because he was returning too many 
> articles to them. He'd apparently crossed some sacred threshold or 
> other--presumably one calculated to be the least profitable to Amazon--with 
> the result that he can no longer log in to his account.
> 
> And you'll never guess what that means for his very handsome collection of 
> Audible books.
> 
> Go on, take a guess. You'll probably get it first time ...
> 
> The DRM on Audible content requires that any device obtain a key from Amazon, 
> after logging in to an account. Any device already possessing that key can of 
> course continue to download and play any content, but without logging in, a 
> new device cannot obtain the key. Amazon have made it very clear to my 
> brother that they have no intention of allowing him further access to his 
> account. So Amazon has put an effective end-of-life date on all of my 
> brother's Audible "Purchases"; as soon as he resets the devices, sells and 
> replaces them, etc, his Audible collection will be no more.
> 
> I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that DRM is 
> thoroughly and fundamentally evil. It's wicked. It's corrupt. It's 
> iniquitous. And it's not about piracy at all, it's about control. You don't 
> own the things you "buy" if the content is locked with a key you don't have 
> and can't get. The true owner is simply parting you from your money with the 
> vague promise of letting you use the key, which they endeavour to keep you 
> from discovering, lest you use it in ways not approved by the owner--for 
> instance by unlocking your digital content permanently and thus freeing 
> yourself from the owner's grip--but which they will make available to you 
> while using software that they trust to protect their, and not your, 
> interests. And of course, the owner always has the option of not letting you 
> use your key at all, by telling the server not to give it to the software. 
> While your decryption key is in their hands, anything might happen to your 
> content, at any time, even if the owner promises to the contrary.
> 
> This racket is only possible because we give these content distributors the 
> money to enable it--to write the software that keeps the keys safe from 
> discovery while in your hands, to write laws that prohibit people from 
> breaking the software to access the content without use of that software, and 
> to criminalise perfectly legitimate uses of content that are inconvenient for 
> the bottom line, but that are recognised by copyright and common sense as 
> being reasonable and fair. I sincerely hope you take something from this 
> incident, as I surely do, with something like this so close to home 
> happening, and I hope you'll be willing to think carefully about whose 
> business practices you'll be willing to support if you have the choice. I 
> understand that we don't all have the choice to exercise all the time, and 
> that it's easy to make up excuses and pray that it never happens to us. I'd 
> say that this was particularly true for blind people and those with other 
> reading challenges, because the selection of material is already very 
> limited. Audible makes a fantastic, sometimes exclusive collection of 
> audiobooks available.
> 
> But they, and any other DRM pedaler, simply cannot be trusted. I have made it 
> a habit never to value any protected content too highly, and I'm gratified to 
> see the truth in it, sad as I am for my brother's plight. For your own sake, 
> wherever possible, you should make arrangements to avoid DRM. Try not to 
> purchase anything you wouldn't keep from a DRM merchant. You never know, it 
> could be you this happens to, and you might be the next person to own a 
> handsome collection of strongly encrypted, utterly useless files that you 
> have no hope of playing, and who will be out of pocket for the amount you 
> "Bought" them for.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any 

FYI: DRM is Evil. Very, Very, Very Evil

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Amazon have closed my brother's account because he was returning too many 
articles to them. He'd apparently crossed some sacred threshold or 
other--presumably one calculated to be the least profitable to Amazon--with the 
result that he can no longer log in to his account.

And you'll never guess what that means for his very handsome collection of 
Audible books.

Go on, take a guess. You'll probably get it first time ...

The DRM on Audible content requires that any device obtain a key from Amazon, 
after logging in to an account. Any device already possessing that key can of 
course continue to download and play any content, but without logging in, a new 
device cannot obtain the key. Amazon have made it very clear to my brother that 
they have no intention of allowing him further access to his account. So Amazon 
has put an effective end-of-life date on all of my brother's Audible 
"Purchases"; as soon as he resets the devices, sells and replaces them, etc, 
his Audible collection will be no more.

I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that DRM is 
thoroughly and fundamentally evil. It's wicked. It's corrupt. It's iniquitous. 
And it's not about piracy at all, it's about control. You don't own the things 
you "buy" if the content is locked with a key you don't have and can't get. The 
true owner is simply parting you from your money with the vague promise of 
letting you use the key, which they endeavour to keep you from discovering, 
lest you use it in ways not approved by the owner--for instance by unlocking 
your digital content permanently and thus freeing yourself from the owner's 
grip--but which they will make available to you while using software that they 
trust to protect their, and not your, interests. And of course, the owner 
always has the option of not letting you use your key at all, by telling the 
server not to give it to the software. While your decryption key is in their 
hands, anything might happen to your content, at any time, even if the owner 
promises to the contrary.

This racket is only possible because we give these content distributors the 
money to enable it--to write the software that keeps the keys safe from 
discovery while in your hands, to write laws that prohibit people from breaking 
the software to access the content without use of that software, and to 
criminalise perfectly legitimate uses of content that are inconvenient for the 
bottom line, but that are recognised by copyright and common sense as being 
reasonable and fair. I sincerely hope you take something from this incident, as 
I surely do, with something like this so close to home happening, and I hope 
you'll be willing to think carefully about whose business practices you'll be 
willing to support if you have the choice. I understand that we don't all have 
the choice to exercise all the time, and that it's easy to make up excuses and 
pray that it never happens to us. I'd say that this was particularly true for 
blind people and those with other reading challenges, because the selection of 
material is already very limited. Audible makes a fantastic, sometimes 
exclusive collection of audiobooks available.

But they, and any other DRM pedaler, simply cannot be trusted. I have made it a 
habit never to value any protected content too highly, and I'm gratified to see 
the truth in it, sad as I am for my brother's plight. For your own sake, 
wherever possible, you should make arrangements to avoid DRM. Try not to 
purchase anything you wouldn't keep from a DRM merchant. You never know, it 
could be you this happens to, and you might be the next person to own a 
handsome collection of strongly encrypted, utterly useless files that you have 
no hope of playing, and who will be out of pocket for the amount you "Bought" 
them for.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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