RE: A new mac accessory

[Bryan Smart]

He is right.

I have spent a lot of time in the last few months studying different software 
development technologies on the Mac, including Applescript. VoiceOver can be 
controlled from scripts, but those scripts must be manually activated. 
VoiceOver has the keyboard commander, and scripts can also be started from 
other macro packages, but they can't be started in response to something 
happening on screen.

With Windows screen readers, they can run a piece of script to read you a 
window, a status bar, etc when that area of the screen changes. With the Mac, 
though, , there isn't any way right now to trigger a script when something 
happens in the user interface. This means that it isn't possible to use scripts 
to automatically let you know when an important event happens, or to 
automatically read you important information.

Beyond that, when people say that VoiceOver supports scripting, what is meant 
is that VoiceOver can be controlled from scripts. That is not the same thing as 
the scripting support in a Windows screen reader. Your script can tell 
VoiceOver to perform any of its commands. You can say move right or read 
contents of VoiceOver cursor, and those commands will be performed just like 
you triggered them from one of the commanders. You don't get access to the user 
interface's object model. You can't make a script that jumps you directly to a 
particular control, because you can't access the user interface object model to 
search for the control, and you can't command VoiceOver to move the VoiceOver 
cursor to an arbitrary user interface object.

There are ways to work around some of this. You can use the System Events 
scripting support to manipulate the user interface, but it isn't a very 
straight forward approach, and most newbie developers won't wrap their heads 
around it easily. There are systems that simplify the manipulation of the UI. 
The PFiddlesoft frameworks provide an easy way to receive events from, and 
control the UI, through the same accessibility frameworks that are used by 
VoiceOver. However, you still can't run scripts in response to events, and 
there are licensing restrictions on the distribution of those frameworks. Macro 
packages like QuicKeys and Keyboard Maestro offer a lot more triggering options 
the the ultra-basic VoiceOver keyboard commander, but they cost between $40 and 
$60 per computer.

So, right now, scripting for VO is extremely basic, and not useful for most 
situations where you'd really need scripting.

Maybe Apple will come up with something better in a future version of VO. Maybe 
some of the makers of the macro apps will start to support UI and/or 
accessibility events as triggers. Either would help a lot.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of .dan.
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 2:03 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: A new mac accessory


This all sounds good. If you learn apple script you can get the same thing 
with out putting out any bucks.

How so?  How can script duplicate universal fine grained control and power of 
dos screen access?  Even when directly controled by keystrokes vo can not do 
this so how does having a script improve upon it?

In performing some tasks that a macro script can do with a keystroke perhaps.  
In having that same script triggered by text appearing at a particular place on 
the screen, how?


XB
 IC|XC

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Re: A new mac accessory

[louie]

This all sounds good. If you learn apple script you can get the same  
thing with out putting out any bucks.


On Jul 23, 2010, at 3:43 PM, .dan. wrote:



I have attached to my imac a dos computer.  I use it to perform  
tasks in terminal and on the internet.  Why you ask do that?


It is my experience that not since the high level times of dos  
screen access have blind people had as much fine grained control and  
power to read screens in the way they perfer.  This is just  
impossible in a gui.  Just one small measure, what in dos takes one  
keystroke in the mac gui might take 3 or more keystrokes.  Mac  
applications and vo are very finger fussy that way.  Also if I want  
to read a specific area with the touch of a key and only that area  
one must do a crude imitation on the mac.  Those who had dos  
experience can think of many more.  It is now the reality that many  
blind folk today have always only known a gui and don't reailize  
what we old dos users miss.


In part I got the imac hoping screen access had improved over those  
in windows I had experienced breifly some years ago.  It has not  
improved to anything like dos access.  I had particular interest to  
use speech in the mac terminal but while it is workable it again can  
not approach dos access. The terminal is the closest one gets to dos  
in a mac.  So I concieved the idea of hooking a dos machine to the  
mac to use it in terminal with all the power that dos access provides.


The dos machine is on a 4 inch square mother board and is a complete  
computer with multiple ports and connectivity.  This includes  
network and usb ports.  It makes no sound at all as it has no fans  
nor moving parts because it uses a flash chip as a hard drive and a  
wall wart for a power source.  While I run dos, it can run any os  
that also uses 8086 chips.  I use a memory stick as one would a  
floppy disk such as when having to boot outside the hard drive  
during trouble shooting.


I use a serial port to connect to a mac usb port with an adaptor.   
This allows me to use dos screen reading and communications  
software.  The latter has a powerful macro language and engine so  
while I'm on the mac or internet I can do very complex things with a  
keystroke, or because it can use text as a trigger it can do things  
automatically.  Logins for example are done automattically with no  
input from me.


Best of all all the power of a dos screen access program is there  
for use in the mac terminal that vo just does not have at this point.


I'm as happy as a pig in mud, I have the power of dos in terminal  
and on the internet and the mac gui for anything I might find it  
might do better.


  XB
   IC|XC

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louie
louiem...@wavecable.com



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