Re: RosettaStone Software: has anyone tried this?
this is just to state clearly that this product will not work for blind users using voiceover. I have been in contact with the developers of the product and they state that due to the method in which the product is designed (graphical nature), voiceover would not work within the environment, I was looking into this very product for my studies in Irish gaelic language as well as German and after long discussions with the developers, it isn't possible without a major redesign of the interface, plus the provision of adapted materials at the expense of the supplier. sorry to break this to you but that's what it's going to be. lew On 11 Apr 2012, at 12:30, Doug Lawlor wrote: Hello list: I'm just wondering if anyone has tried the RosettaStone language learning software. Looking at there FAQ pages I see that it can work on the Mac. I'm not sure about accessibility however. I suspect they use a cross platform development solution which is always not the most accessible when it comes to working with OS10. Again, has anyone taken a look at this? Thanks, Doug -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: RosettaStone Software: has anyone tried this?
To be quite honest that's what I figured. They talk about using images to convey certain aspects of the language learning. I didn't think the cross platform solution, if that is what they are using, wouldn't help either. Doug On 2012-04-11, at 9:04 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote: this is just to state clearly that this product will not work for blind users using voiceover. I have been in contact with the developers of the product and they state that due to the method in which the product is designed (graphical nature), voiceover would not work within the environment, I was looking into this very product for my studies in Irish gaelic language as well as German and after long discussions with the developers, it isn't possible without a major redesign of the interface, plus the provision of adapted materials at the expense of the supplier. sorry to break this to you but that's what it's going to be. lew On 11 Apr 2012, at 12:30, Doug Lawlor wrote: Hello list: I'm just wondering if anyone has tried the RosettaStone language learning software. Looking at there FAQ pages I see that it can work on the Mac. I'm not sure about accessibility however. I suspect they use a cross platform development solution which is always not the most accessible when it comes to working with OS10. Again, has anyone taken a look at this? Thanks, Doug -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: RosettaStone Software: has anyone tried this?
the system is designed as a universal cross platform architecture, at the same time, the system works by displaying images which also have language by audio, however as the graphics in question would need to have object links and descriptors for each component, besides a full rework to allow voiceover intergration, it would cost the developers a fortune to recode. the other aspect is that for blind users, the use of braille (where the customer may be a braille user) would cost per box, a good fortune to be transcribed, etc as well as the option of tactile graphics to comply with certain areas of the language pack. ideally, for blind users wishing to study a new language, we should be able to use an interface where we can navigate with voiceover in a multilingual capacity, have graphics described in both the parent and sub language (example: english first, german later) and also be able to observe not only how the language is spoken but how it is written, as various languages use different alphabets and letter forms, etc. also giving braille feedback which would be through voiceover itself. something we need to look into, as language studies without the proper resources and support is a difficult area to study. I go back to my school days, as I live in wales but am english, I had to learn welsh as part of the educational curriculum. Because of the sight loss and the start of my braille studies, I didn't have the support to properly handle the language. it's all well and good having parrot fashion language tuition, but to feel or understand how the materials are written and transcribed to then handle it in it's full context was impossible. lew On 11 Apr 2012, at 13:20, Doug Lawlor wrote: To be quite honest that's what I figured. They talk about using images to convey certain aspects of the language learning. I didn't think the cross platform solution, if that is what they are using, wouldn't help either. Doug On 2012-04-11, at 9:04 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote: this is just to state clearly that this product will not work for blind users using voiceover. I have been in contact with the developers of the product and they state that due to the method in which the product is designed (graphical nature), voiceover would not work within the environment, I was looking into this very product for my studies in Irish gaelic language as well as German and after long discussions with the developers, it isn't possible without a major redesign of the interface, plus the provision of adapted materials at the expense of the supplier. sorry to break this to you but that's what it's going to be. lew On 11 Apr 2012, at 12:30, Doug Lawlor wrote: Hello list: I'm just wondering if anyone has tried the RosettaStone language learning software. Looking at there FAQ pages I see that it can work on the Mac. I'm not sure about accessibility however. I suspect they use a cross platform development solution which is always not the most accessible when it comes to working with OS10. Again, has anyone taken a look at this? Thanks, Doug -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: RosettaStone Software: has anyone tried this?
Hi guys, I'm teach Spanish, so I'll admit up front to having a bias about these things. Rosetta Stone is an inherently visual program. It works on the premise that immediately and quickly associating a visual image with a word or phrase will help you to internalize vocabulary. Physiologically, in terms of how we process information, that is very different from pairing a foreign word with its English counterpart. Going from a word in your native language to a word in a new language is just simple translation, something I *always discourage my students from doing. So for example, if I give you the Spanish word manzana, and show you a picture of a juicy red apple, you come to associate manzana with that image. If I have to insert the word apple in order for you to get to the image of the big, red, juicy apple, what you're actually associating are the words manzana and apple, not the word manzana with the picture of the fruit. I realize that for many of you this difference may seem negligible, but really it isn't. With that in mind, I don't believe it is even possible for Rosetta Stone to be made accessible, because there's no way to duplicate for us the experience of viewing an image without first inserting the native language into the mix. Now my second point. None of these programs will really teach you to speak a language, despite their claims. If you want to learn how to say where's the bathroom? or I want another beer you can probably do that, but in terms of really mastering a broad vocabulary, grammar, and syntax, it's not going to happen. So if you want to have more than rudimentary tourist skills, go take a language class. Yes, it takes more time and costs more, but like many other things in life, you get out of it what you put into it. Cheers, Donna On Apr 11, 2012, at 8:55 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote: the system is designed as a universal cross platform architecture, at the same time, the system works by displaying images which also have language by audio, however as the graphics in question would need to have object links and descriptors for each component, besides a full rework to allow voiceover intergration, it would cost the developers a fortune to recode. the other aspect is that for blind users, the use of braille (where the customer may be a braille user) would cost per box, a good fortune to be transcribed, etc as well as the option of tactile graphics to comply with certain areas of the language pack. ideally, for blind users wishing to study a new language, we should be able to use an interface where we can navigate with voiceover in a multilingual capacity, have graphics described in both the parent and sub language (example: english first, german later) and also be able to observe not only how the language is spoken but how it is written, as various languages use different alphabets and letter forms, etc. also giving braille feedback which would be through voiceover itself. something we need to look into, as language studies without the proper resources and support is a difficult area to study. I go back to my school days, as I live in wales but am english, I had to learn welsh as part of the educational curriculum. Because of the sight loss and the start of my braille studies, I didn't have the support to properly handle the language. it's all well and good having parrot fashion language tuition, but to feel or understand how the materials are written and transcribed to then handle it in it's full context was impossible. lew On 11 Apr 2012, at 13:20, Doug Lawlor wrote: To be quite honest that's what I figured. They talk about using images to convey certain aspects of the language learning. I didn't think the cross platform solution, if that is what they are using, wouldn't help either. Doug On 2012-04-11, at 9:04 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote: this is just to state clearly that this product will not work for blind users using voiceover. I have been in contact with the developers of the product and they state that due to the method in which the product is designed (graphical nature), voiceover would not work within the environment, I was looking into this very product for my studies in Irish gaelic language as well as German and after long discussions with the developers, it isn't possible without a major redesign of the interface, plus the provision of adapted materials at the expense of the supplier. sorry to break this to you but that's what it's going to be. lew On 11 Apr 2012, at 12:30, Doug Lawlor wrote: Hello list: I'm just wondering if anyone has tried the RosettaStone language learning software. Looking at there FAQ pages I see that it can work on the Mac. I'm not sure about accessibility however. I suspect they use a cross platform development solution which is always not the most accessible when it comes to working with OS10.
Re: RosettaStone Software: has anyone tried this?
Hi donna, thanks for that. I agree with you there. the only main area where a blind student, studying languages through a course would come to problems, is the written area. from a speech based medium which we come to rely on as our first medium, studying a foreign language through braille means studying from scratch, as an example. the welsh braille language has complexities of it's own, a primary example being accented letters and morphed letters as double letters, etc. so studying the braille version of the language means understanding a new series of characters, forms and short forms. it's doable but a headache. if you're in the UK as an example, language studies for blind users is a mine field, especially when it comes to adapted support and finding a tutor who is fluent in foreign braille standards as wel as being able to support and describe the various elements of the language. exciting challenges ahead. are residents barking? lew On 11 Apr 2012, at 14:37, Donna Goodin wrote: Hi guys, I'm teach Spanish, so I'll admit up front to having a bias about these things. Rosetta Stone is an inherently visual program. It works on the premise that immediately and quickly associating a visual image with a word or phrase will help you to internalize vocabulary. Physiologically, in terms of how we process information, that is very different from pairing a foreign word with its English counterpart. Going from a word in your native language to a word in a new language is just simple translation, something I *always discourage my students from doing. So for example, if I give you the Spanish word manzana, and show you a picture of a juicy red apple, you come to associate manzana with that image. If I have to insert the word apple in order for you to get to the image of the big, red, juicy apple, what you're actually associating are the words manzana and apple, not the word manzana with the picture of the fruit. I realize that for many of you this difference may seem negligible, but really it isn't. With that in mind, I don't believe it is even possible for Rosetta Stone to be made accessible, because there's no way to duplicate for us the experience of viewing an image without first inserting the native language into the mix. Now my second point. None of these programs will really teach you to speak a language, despite their claims. If you want to learn how to say where's the bathroom? or I want another beer you can probably do that, but in terms of really mastering a broad vocabulary, grammar, and syntax, it's not going to happen. So if you want to have more than rudimentary tourist skills, go take a language class. Yes, it takes more time and costs more, but like many other things in life, you get out of it what you put into it. Cheers, Donna On Apr 11, 2012, at 8:55 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote: the system is designed as a universal cross platform architecture, at the same time, the system works by displaying images which also have language by audio, however as the graphics in question would need to have object links and descriptors for each component, besides a full rework to allow voiceover intergration, it would cost the developers a fortune to recode. the other aspect is that for blind users, the use of braille (where the customer may be a braille user) would cost per box, a good fortune to be transcribed, etc as well as the option of tactile graphics to comply with certain areas of the language pack. ideally, for blind users wishing to study a new language, we should be able to use an interface where we can navigate with voiceover in a multilingual capacity, have graphics described in both the parent and sub language (example: english first, german later) and also be able to observe not only how the language is spoken but how it is written, as various languages use different alphabets and letter forms, etc. also giving braille feedback which would be through voiceover itself. something we need to look into, as language studies without the proper resources and support is a difficult area to study. I go back to my school days, as I live in wales but am english, I had to learn welsh as part of the educational curriculum. Because of the sight loss and the start of my braille studies, I didn't have the support to properly handle the language. it's all well and good having parrot fashion language tuition, but to feel or understand how the materials are written and transcribed to then handle it in it's full context was impossible. lew On 11 Apr 2012, at 13:20, Doug Lawlor wrote: To be quite honest that's what I figured. They talk about using images to convey certain aspects of the language learning. I didn't think the cross platform solution, if that is what they are using, wouldn't help either. Doug On 2012-04-11, at 9:04 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote: this is
Re: RosettaStone Software: has anyone tried this?
Yes, I tried a sample of it and it is based on visual learning. They show you a picture of a ball, for example, and then say the word for ball in spanish. If you don't know if the picture is a ball however, you are up a creek. Jenny On Apr 11, 2012, at 6:30 AM, Doug Lawlor wrote: Hello list: I'm just wondering if anyone has tried the RosettaStone language learning software. Looking at there FAQ pages I see that it can work on the Mac. I'm not sure about accessibility however. I suspect they use a cross platform development solution which is always not the most accessible when it comes to working with OS10. Again, has anyone taken a look at this? Thanks, Doug -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
