Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Jonathan Cohn]

I could not get negative numbers to not speak the negative value either. So 
1. Either something in a specific type of sheet formatting.
2. Different versions of numbers.
or 
3. AN obscure setting in VoiceOVer that some of us are not finding.
I think the easiest thing to do is verify your numbers is up to date in the App 
Store, then perhaps you could share via dropbox a file that you are not getting 
negative numbers read. Obviously don't send personal information. If Tim and I 
can't still reproduce, then we will need to start importing / exporting 
VOiceOver settings and that does not sound fun at all.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Sep 15, 2019, at 1:15 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've messed with some VO Settings and cannot seem to get it to stop saying 
> negative when a negative number is present.  changing between word/Digits, 
> changing how cursors follows each other, verbosity level, and arrow vs VO 
> navigation all did not seem to change what was announced.  I seem to always 
> get the negative announced.  this led me to check if there's something either 
> in Accessibility or Language of System prefs that could cause differences, 
> but could not find anything.  Voice choice sounds like a possible difference, 
> but I'm using Alex which is where you're finding the problem.  Squash that 
> idea then.  My language is set to Canadian English, not US, and I know that 
> some aspects of these two versions of English are slightly different, but I 
> don't see how that would affect the announcement of the negative number.  I 
> even checked if the negative is announced differently when it's a entered 
> number vs a formal, but it all works fine for me.  You've stumped me so far.  
> Good work :).
> 
> Later...
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Jamf Certified Associate
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 15, 2019, at 09:42, Barry Hadder  > wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am using Voiceover with Excel and vo reads negative numbers.
> In the text tab of verbosity settings in vo utility, do you have numbers read 
> as words?
> Also, how are you moving between cells?  There are three ways:  arrows, tab, 
> and the vo movement commands.  How you do this may affect how vo reads the 
> content.
> With vo punctuation set to all, vo should read parentheses.
> 
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2019, at 09:45, Dave Carlson > > wrote:
>> 
>> Tim,
>> I am also wondering where is that mysterious setting that is haunting me. So 
>> far, in all my wanderings through VO and Accessibility settings, I have not 
>> found the holy grail.
>> 
>> Dave Carlson
>> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Jonathan Cohn]

In the list of activities there is a Additional  settings to include click on 
this and down 5 items is "Voices"  
Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Sep 15, 2019, at 5:59 PM, 'Robert Cole' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi, I’m having the same problem.
> Is there a way to have Samantha
>  only speak in the Numbers app?
> I found activities in the voice over settings to change punctuation
>  for numbers, but not a way to change voices.
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2019, at 1:13 PM, Dave Carlson > > wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve used the “all” settings for punctuations, and the parentheses are read 
>> only with voices other than Alex or Fred. But my preference is having the 
>> minus sign precede the $ sigh, so I don’t need to have all punctuation. 
>> Having all punctuation in other apps drives me insane. I’ll see if there’s a 
>> difference in how I navigate. But for now Tom is performing well, though I’m 
>> not enthralled with his voice.
>> 
>> Dave Carlson
>> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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RE: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Simon A Fogarty]

I don’t think anyone other than Indiana jones has found that yet!!

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Dave Carlson
Sent: Monday, 16 September 2019 2:46 AM
To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

Tim,
I am also wondering where is that mysterious setting that is haunting me. So 
far, in all my wanderings through VO and Accessibility settings, I have not 
found the holy grail.

Dave Carlson
Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician




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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

['Robert Cole' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, I’m having the same problem.
Is there a way to have Samantha
 only speak in the Numbers app?
I found activities in the voice over settings to change punctuation
 for numbers, but not a way to change voices.

> On Sep 15, 2019, at 1:13 PM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> I’ve used the “all” settings for punctuations, and the parentheses are read 
> only with voices other than Alex or Fred. But my preference is having the 
> minus sign precede the $ sigh, so I don’t need to have all punctuation. 
> Having all punctuation in other apps drives me insane. I’ll see if there’s a 
> difference in how I navigate. But for now Tom is performing well, though I’m 
> not enthralled with his voice.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Barry Hadder]

Yes, I am using Alex.

> On Sep 15, 2019, at 14:22, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Barry,
> And do I presume that you are also using Alex and that he is able to 
> pronounce the negative values?
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Dave Carlson]

Dan,
Just caught your pun. Yes, I need to find a grumpy, cantankerous voice.

Dave Carlson
Engineer, Pioneer, Farfar, Woodworker, Musician, and Oregonian




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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Dave Carlson]

Barry,
And do I presume that you are also using Alex and that he is able to pronounce 
the negative values?

Dave Carlson
Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician




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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Dave Carlson]

Good suggestion. I haven’t spent any time looking at activities yet. Hope 
they’re not complicated.

Dave Carlson
Musician, Engineer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, and Pioneer





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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Barry Hadder]

Slite correction,
In this case, read numbers as words or digits makes no difference.
So, I am also stumped.  I have no idea why you are having any isues.


> On Sep 15, 2019, at 14:06, Barry Hadder  wrote:
> 
> Well, I’m Not Tim, but I’l answer anyway.
> In the currency category of number tab of format cells, I have -$ format 
> selected.
> With read numbers as words, vo reads the negative sign when I use the vo 
> movement commands.
> 
> It’s also worth pointing out that if you prefer the parentheses format, and 
> you don’t want all punctuation on all of the time, you could just set an 
> activity for Excel.
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2019, at 13:09, Dave Carlson > > wrote:
>> 
>> Tim,
>> Did I ever mention to you that I use the minus$ method of negative number 
>> marking, since the parentheses do not work unless I set punctuation to 
>> “all”? What is your negative indicator set to?
>> 
>> Dave Carlson
>> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Barry Hadder]

Well, I’m Not Tim, but I’l answer anyway.
In the currency category of number tab of format cells, I have -$ format 
selected.
With read numbers as words, vo reads the negative sign when I use the vo 
movement commands.

It’s also worth pointing out that if you prefer the parentheses format, and you 
don’t want all punctuation on all of the time, you could just set an activity 
for Excel.

> On Sep 15, 2019, at 13:09, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Tim,
> Did I ever mention to you that I use the minus$ method of negative number 
> marking, since the parentheses do not work unless I set punctuation to “all”? 
> What is your negative indicator set to?
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Dave Carlson]

Tim,
Did I ever mention to you that I use the minus$ method of negative number 
marking, since the parentheses do not work unless I set punctuation to “all”? 
What is your negative indicator set to?

Dave Carlson
Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician




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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Barry Hadder]

The only instance where I can stop vo from announcing a negative sign is to set 
read numbers as digits and use the vo movement commands.  


> On Sep 15, 2019, at 12:15, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've messed with some VO Settings and cannot seem to get it to stop saying 
> negative when a negative number is present.  changing between word/Digits, 
> changing how cursors follows each other, verbosity level, and arrow vs VO 
> navigation all did not seem to change what was announced.  I seem to always 
> get the negative announced.  this led me to check if there's something either 
> in Accessibility or Language of System prefs that could cause differences, 
> but could not find anything.  Voice choice sounds like a possible difference, 
> but I'm using Alex which is where you're finding the problem.  Squash that 
> idea then.  My language is set to Canadian English, not US, and I know that 
> some aspects of these two versions of English are slightly different, but I 
> don't see how that would affect the announcement of the negative number.  I 
> even checked if the negative is announced differently when it's a entered 
> number vs a formal, but it all works fine for me.  You've stumped me so far.  
> Good work :).
> 
> Later...
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Jamf Certified Associate
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 15, 2019, at 09:42, Barry Hadder  > wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am using Voiceover with Excel and vo reads negative numbers.
> In the text tab of verbosity settings in vo utility, do you have numbers read 
> as words?
> Also, how are you moving between cells?  There are three ways:  arrows, tab, 
> and the vo movement commands.  How you do this may affect how vo reads the 
> content.
> With vo punctuation set to all, vo should read parentheses.
> 
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2019, at 09:45, Dave Carlson > > wrote:
>> 
>> Tim,
>> I am also wondering where is that mysterious setting that is haunting me. So 
>> far, in all my wanderings through VO and Accessibility settings, I have not 
>> found the holy grail.
>> 
>> Dave Carlson
>> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[dan d.]

Sometimes such things are voice dependent quirks.  Use the voice roter to pick 
a temp voice or two.

Otherwise, try a more positive attitude.
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019, Dave Carlson wrote:

> Yes, Mine has been set to ???some??? and Also to ???All???. Still no joy.
>
> Dave Carlson
> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

I've messed with some VO Settings and cannot seem to get it to stop saying 
negative when a negative number is present.  changing between word/Digits, 
changing how cursors follows each other, verbosity level, and arrow vs VO 
navigation all did not seem to change what was announced.  I seem to always get 
the negative announced.  this led me to check if there's something either in 
Accessibility or Language of System prefs that could cause differences, but 
could not find anything.  Voice choice sounds like a possible difference, but 
I'm using Alex which is where you're finding the problem.  Squash that idea 
then.  My language is set to Canadian English, not US, and I know that some 
aspects of these two versions of English are slightly different, but I don't 
see how that would affect the announcement of the negative number.  I even 
checked if the negative is announced differently when it's a entered number vs 
a formal, but it all works fine for me.  You've stumped me so far.  Good work 
:).

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Jamf Certified Associate
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 15, 2019, at 09:42, Barry Hadder  wrote:

Hi,

I am using Voiceover with Excel and vo reads negative numbers.
In the text tab of verbosity settings in vo utility, do you have numbers read 
as words?
Also, how are you moving between cells?  There are three ways:  arrows, tab, 
and the vo movement commands.  How you do this may affect how vo reads the 
content.
With vo punctuation set to all, vo should read parentheses.


> On Sep 15, 2019, at 09:45, Dave Carlson  > wrote:
> 
> Tim,
> I am also wondering where is that mysterious setting that is haunting me. So 
> far, in all my wanderings through VO and Accessibility settings, I have not 
> found the holy grail.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Dave Carlson]

I’ve used the “all” settings for punctuations, and the parentheses are read 
only with voices other than Alex or Fred. But my preference is having the minus 
sign precede the $ sigh, so I don’t need to have all punctuation. Having all 
punctuation in other apps drives me insane. I’ll see if there’s a difference in 
how I navigate. But for now Tom is performing well, though I’m not enthralled 
with his voice.

Dave Carlson
Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician




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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Dave Carlson]

Absolutely okay. Any time is always better than “never."

Dave Carlson
Musician, Engineer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, and Pioneer





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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Barry Hadder]

Hi,

I am using Voiceover with Excel and vo reads negative numbers.
In the text tab of verbosity settings in vo utility, do you have numbers read 
as words?
Also, how are you moving between cells?  There are three ways:  arrows, tab, 
and the vo movement commands.  How you do this may affect how vo reads the 
content.
With vo punctuation set to all, vo should read parentheses.


> On Sep 15, 2019, at 09:45, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Tim,
> I am also wondering where is that mysterious setting that is haunting me. So 
> far, in all my wanderings through VO and Accessibility settings, I have not 
> found the holy grail.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

I'm just in the middle of helping my daughter review some parts of her 
dictation, so I will take a look at some VO settings later this morning or this 
afternoon, if that's alright.

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Jamf Certified Associate
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 15, 2019, at 08:45, Dave Carlson  wrote:

Tim,
I am also wondering where is that mysterious setting that is haunting me. So 
far, in all my wanderings through VO and Accessibility settings, I have not 
found the holy grail.

Dave Carlson
Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician





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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Dave Carlson]

Tim,
I am also wondering where is that mysterious setting that is haunting me. So 
far, in all my wanderings through VO and Accessibility settings, I have not 
found the holy grail.

Dave Carlson
Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician




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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

I use full strength Alex.  I'm thinking that there may be some other setting 
that is factoring in.


Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Jamf Certified Associate
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 15, 2019, at 07:45, Dave Carlson  wrote:

Alex, or Alex Compact? I didn’t try the compact version.

Dave Carlson
Musician, Engineer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, and Pioneer






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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Dave Carlson]

Jonathan,
Yes I reported first when I had the problem, and then followed up with the news 
that Alex was the culprit. Now I need to verify whether it’s limited to Alex, 
vs. Alex compact.

Dave Carlson
Engineer, Pioneer, Farfar, Woodworker, Musician, and Oregonian




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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Dave Carlson]

Alex, or Alex Compact? I didn’t try the compact version.

Dave Carlson
Musician, Engineer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, and Pioneer





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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Jonathan Cohn]

Report it to Microsoft too. I have had good response from Microsoft on 
Macintosh Office accessibility issues.
Jonathan
 
Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Sep 14, 2019, at 11:13 PM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Hot D**n! That did it! I hate Tom, so I’m looking for a voice I can stand for 
> long periods. But you did hit the nail on the head. Thanks so much for your 
> suggestion. Now I’m going to send a follow-up to Apple Accessibility with 
> this, to add to one more reason Alex is not a reliable kind of guy.
> 
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Engineer, Pioneer, Farfar, Woodworker, Musician, and Oregonian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

Hmmm. Alex works well for me. Negatives are announced properly. 


 Later... 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 14, 2019, at 9:13 PM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Hot D**n! That did it! I hate Tom, so I’m looking for a voice I can stand for 
> long periods. But you did hit the nail on the head. Thanks so much for your 
> suggestion. Now I’m going to send a follow-up to Apple Accessibility with 
> this, to add to one more reason Alex is not a reliable kind of guy.
> 
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Engineer, Pioneer, Farfar, Woodworker, Musician, and Oregonian
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Dave Carlson]

Hot D**n! That did it! I hate Tom, so I’m looking for a voice I can stand for 
long periods. But you did hit the nail on the head. Thanks so much for your 
suggestion. Now I’m going to send a follow-up to Apple Accessibility with this, 
to add to one more reason Alex is not a reliable kind of guy.


Dave Carlson
Engineer, Pioneer, Farfar, Woodworker, Musician, and Oregonian




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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Dave Carlson]

Petrus,
You know, you have a way of hitting nails on the head. I didn’t even think of 
that, even knowing what Alex does with the Roman numerals. Off to give that a 
try.

Dave Carlson
Musician, Engineer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, and Pioneer





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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Petrus Tuerlings]

Sorry if this has been suggested already or if it isn’t any help, I haven’t 
really followed this thread. Does it make any difference if you change the 
voiceover voice?

> On 15/09/2019, at 2:19 PM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Yes, Mine has been set to “some” and Also to “All”. Still no joy.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> .

Sent from Petrus' MacBook 

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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Dave Carlson]

Yes, Mine has been set to “some” and Also to “All”. Still no joy.

Dave Carlson
Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician




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Re: Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Dave,

Mine does announce negative numbers in the Numbers app.  What is your 
punctuation level set to?  Mine is to some.

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Jamf Certified Associate
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 14, 2019, at 10:30, Dave Carlson  wrote:

Any takers out there? I still haven’t figured out a way to have VO specifically 
verbalize parenthesis or minus signs in Excel. And this also appears to be a 
problem using theNumbers app.

Dave Carlson
Musician, Engineer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, and Pioneer





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Still Need Help with Negative Numbers

[Dave Carlson]

Any takers out there? I still haven’t figured out a way to have VO specifically 
verbalize parenthesis or minus signs in Excel. And this also appears to be a 
problem using theNumbers app.

Dave Carlson
Musician, Engineer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, and Pioneer





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