Re: VoiceOver friendly way to order a list of items into descending order of importance

2017-08-20 Thread Jonathan Cohn 

NVDA seems to work fairly well with modern versions of  Firefox in navigator 
mode. So I expect you could do the mouse down / mouse up with NVDA+NUMPAD-* 

Jonathan Cohn



> On Aug 19, 2017, at 11:40 AM, Paul Hopewell  wrote:
> 
> Hello Anne, 
> Many thanks for the tip on using the VoiceOver mouse down and mouse up 
> hotkeys on Mac OS to do drag and drop. That worked fine on the problem web 
> site. I also found that I could re-order the list on my iPhone using a 1 
> finger double tap and hold and then drag. This gave no VoiceOver feedback on 
> where I was dragging to but with a little practice it was easy enough to 
> judge how far to drag. 
> I wonder if such lists might be a problem for Windows screen reader users, 
> especially of the free NVDA and for Android screen reader users. However it 
> is up to them to complain if it is a problem!
> Many thanks and best regards….
> 
> Paul Hopewell 
> 
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VoiceOver friendly way to order a list of items into descending order of importance

2017-08-19 Thread Paul Hopewell 
Hello Anne, 
Many thanks for the tip on using the VoiceOver mouse down and mouse up hotkeys 
on Mac OS to do drag and drop. That worked fine on the problem web site. I also 
found that I could re-order the list on my iPhone using a 1 finger double tap 
and hold and then drag. This gave no VoiceOver feedback on where I was dragging 
to but with a little practice it was easy enough to judge how far to drag. 
I wonder if such lists might be a problem for Windows screen reader users, 
especially of the free NVDA and for Android screen reader users. However it is 
up to them to complain if it is a problem!
Many thanks and best regards….

Paul Hopewell 

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Re: VoiceOver friendly way to order a list of items into descending order of importance

2017-08-18 Thread Jonathan Cohn 
Yes that does work. I would also suggest that if you can create a issue report 
with Apple Accessibility. The VO drag and drop functionality is very minimal 
and needs improvement. There are also things the web developer could do on 
their side. There are ways of doing drag and drop much like cut / paste and/or 
buttons.


Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Aug 18, 2017, at 12:10 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Hello Paul,
> 
> Have you tried the alternative way of dragging and dropping with Voiceover? 
> You have to turn cursor tracking off first and then you use 
> VO-Cmd-Shift-Space to put the mouse down on the item. Navigate to where you 
> want to drop the item using the VO keys then bring the mouse with VO-Cmd-F5 
> and repeat the command you used to hold the mouse down to release it.
> This often works where VO-Comma and VO-Full Stop fail.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> 
>> On 18 Aug 2017, at 16:10, Paul Hopewell  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello, 
>> I use the latest Safari on MAC OS El Capitan. I subscribe to a web site 
>> which from time to time has a questionnaire which requires me to order a 
>> list of candidate items into descending order of importance. They ask their 
>> users to use a mouse to drag the items into the correct order. As a 
>> VoiceOver user I cannot use a mouse to do this. Alas the keyboard commands 
>> to mark an item for drag and drop and to subsequently drop the marked item 
>> before or after the VO cursor do not work with this web site. 
>> 
>> I would like to suggest an alternative screen reader friendly way for doing 
>> this job to the web site owner. A simple idea would be to ask the user to 
>> type a 1 against the most important, a 2 against the next most important and 
>> so on. However this has the problem that the user could type a 1 against 
>> more than one item and if it is a long list they could have difficulties 
>> remembering which priority numbers they have already used. 
>> 
>> So have any of you seen a web site which offers a screen reader friendly way 
>> to order a list of candidate items? If so what do they ask their users to do?
>> 
>> Many thanks for any tips.
>> 
>> Paul Hopewell 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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> 
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Re: VoiceOver friendly way to order a list of items into descending order of importance

2017-08-18 Thread Anne Robertson 
Hello Paul,

Have you tried the alternative way of dragging and dropping with Voiceover? You 
have to turn cursor tracking off first and then you use VO-Cmd-Shift-Space to 
put the mouse down on the item. Navigate to where you want to drop the item 
using the VO keys then bring the mouse with VO-Cmd-F5 and repeat the command 
you used to hold the mouse down to release it.
This often works where VO-Comma and VO-Full Stop fail.

Cheers,

Anne

 

> On 18 Aug 2017, at 16:10, Paul Hopewell  wrote:
> 
> Hello, 
> I use the latest Safari on MAC OS El Capitan. I subscribe to a web site which 
> from time to time has a questionnaire which requires me to order a list of 
> candidate items into descending order of importance. They ask their users to 
> use a mouse to drag the items into the correct order. As a VoiceOver user I 
> cannot use a mouse to do this. Alas the keyboard commands to mark an item for 
> drag and drop and to subsequently drop the marked item before or after the VO 
> cursor do not work with this web site. 
> 
> I would like to suggest an alternative screen reader friendly way for doing 
> this job to the web site owner. A simple idea would be to ask the user to 
> type a 1 against the most important, a 2 against the next most important and 
> so on. However this has the problem that the user could type a 1 against more 
> than one item and if it is a long list they could have difficulties 
> remembering which priority numbers they have already used. 
> 
> So have any of you seen a web site which offers a screen reader friendly way 
> to order a list of candidate items? If so what do they ask their users to do?
> 
> Many thanks for any tips.
> 
> Paul Hopewell 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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VoiceOver friendly way to order a list of items into descending order of importance

2017-08-18 Thread Paul Hopewell 
Hello, 
I use the latest Safari on MAC OS El Capitan. I subscribe to a web site which 
from time to time has a questionnaire which requires me to order a list of 
candidate items into descending order of importance. They ask their users to 
use a mouse to drag the items into the correct order. As a VoiceOver user I 
cannot use a mouse to do this. Alas the keyboard commands to mark an item for 
drag and drop and to subsequently drop the marked item before or after the VO 
cursor do not work with this web site. 

I would like to suggest an alternative screen reader friendly way for doing 
this job to the web site owner. A simple idea would be to ask the user to type 
a 1 against the most important, a 2 against the next most important and so on. 
However this has the problem that the user could type a 1 against more than one 
item and if it is a long list they could have difficulties remembering which 
priority numbers they have already used. 

So have any of you seen a web site which offers a screen reader friendly way to 
order a list of candidate items? If so what do they ask their users to do?

Many thanks for any tips.

Paul Hopewell 

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