Re: USB Host - Class 1 Bluetooth
Why yes, that's it. If it looks OK there then you should be OK. Of course, it's a very long document. I think I managed to read the whole thing (usb_20.pdf) at one point, however I was asleep through most of it. :-) I spent most of my time in chapter 7 since I was designing and characterizing the pads. I also notice that there are a lot more files available. Back then there were about half as many. And OTG was just a proposal. -- Allen Brown http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown Hi, --- On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 5:33 AM, Allen Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Also the host (i.e. Nokia) may not allow a device to come on | if it reports needing more than the host *thinks* it is capable | of. \-- Section: 7.2.1.4: High-power Bus-powered Functions, pp. 174 ? [1] If sufficient power exists, the remainder of the function may be powered on. --- | If you can your hands on a copy of the USB spec, do so. Unfortunately | that may be difficult. They want you to pay money to play in that | game. \-- This one? [1] usb_20.pdf. http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/. SK -- Shakthi Kannan http://www.shakthimaan.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Community council is a representative body - not community leadership
Folks, there are two solutions to this problem. 1. Ignore him. He will get bored and go away if he stops getting responses. An easy way to do this is to create a rule in your mailer which shunts every message from dariusjack directly into the trash without being read. 2. Or... remove him from the mailing list. More rude. But more effective in the short term, since it doesn't require cooperation from everybody on the list. What clearly won't work is to try to reason with him. That's like trying to reason with a scorpion. -- Allen Brown http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown He is more than right in asking you to write in simple text HERE on this mailing list. Because this is also what 'I' ask you (and JUST because I am a regular USER of this mailing list). Pleasing other users is what makes you part of the community too. If you don't want to be part of it, just leave it. If you want to be part of it ( as I understand it ), then play by the rule. You self said that the community should moderate itself. That's what happened right now, and you did not cooperate. Please, do. Otherwise no one will listen to you. At least, not me. -- Aniello Del Sorbo On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Darius Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: my dear friend, how about configuring your mailer ? You have no title to tell me how should I configure my mailer as I read corporate mails with images and some html code inlined. All you can do is to ask me but never tell me anything I should or have to do, as you are not my boss. Upgrade your mailer to read mail correctly. No more problems ? And stop cutting off the body of my mail to kill the thread. Bad boy. Darius Global Alliance on Open Source Software http://groups.google.com/group/globalalliance4u?hl=en --- On Mon, 16/6/08, Frederic Crozat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Frederic Crozat [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Community council is a representative body - not community leadership To: Darius Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Date: Monday, 16 June, 2008, 4:33 PM On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Darius Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, How about configuring your yahoo webmail to stop posting in HTML, as you have been told several times. -- Frederic Crozat Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- anidel ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: USB Host - Class 1 Bluetooth
This is tangential to what you are asking about, but I think you could run into a problem with your power injector. It's been a few years since I read the USB specs, but as I recall the host knows, and makes decisions based on, what power is available. Also it switches that power on and off depending on what state the bus is in. There could be problems if the actual power doesn't match what the host thinks it is. -- Allen Brown http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown I am interested in using class 1 USB bluetooth adapters in Maemo. So far I have flashed a 770 with the latest OS2007 hacker edition and enabled USB host mode. I have also built a power injector to provide attached USB devices with 5v. I am now looking at how to get a suitable driver for the hardware and then setting up BlueZ to use the attached adapter instead of the 770's internal class 2 adapter. Does this seem like a feasible approach to you Maemo gurus? I'm getting better/faster at working in Linux/Maemo but progress is still slow. Any tips greatly appreciated as they will probably save me a lot of time. Does anyone know of any people or projects attempting anything similar? I surely can't be the first to try this, other people must have looked at class 1 bluetooth for these devices. If not is this interesting to anyone else? Thanks, Dan ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: USB Host - Class 1 Bluetooth
I think you didn't understand what I was saying. I'm not saying the device will draw more power than your injector can handle. I am saying that turning the power on and off is a part of the protocol. And messing with this can break things. Also the host (i.e. Nokia) may not allow a device to come on if it reports needing more than the host *thinks* it is capable of. Not sure about this. When I was reading the USB spec I was focussed on the electronics, not the software. If you can your hands on a copy of the USB spec, do so. Unfortunately that may be difficult. They want you to pay money to play in that game. -- Allen Brown http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown I don't think the power should be an issue as Bluetooth adapters shouldn't be much more demanding that other USB devices that people have got working with the 770. I am using a circuit similar to this one, http://www.hcilab.org/projects/nokia770/nokia770.htm. I will test my circuit with other simpler USB devices with comparable power usage but I think the problems will be more related to software than hardware. I don't have much experience with drivers on Linux so that is the bit were I am worried I might have overlooked something crucial. Cheers, Dan Allen Brown wrote: This is tangential to what you are asking about, but I think you could run into a problem with your power injector. It's been a few years since I read the USB specs, but as I recall the host knows, and makes decisions based on, what power is available. Also it switches that power on and off depending on what state the bus is in. There could be problems if the actual power doesn't match what the host thinks it is. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: maemo.org community leadership - the maemo.org Community Council
I think you will find that quarterly elections are too frequent. Everyone will burn out on voting. Yearly or by halves. -- Allen Brown http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown Hey guys, So Maemo, as we all feel has enormous potential and we all feel investment in making things work out for the best. So instead of each taking a side, why not find a better solution than what people are envisioning from a position of separation. Because obviously there are pros and cons to both scenarios. Direction given by passionate members can help steer things in the right direction or stifle it (a la gimp). And sometimes mob rule is horrible because there is no room to innovate outside people's expectations. So obviously you are both right here. Please don't bicker on the list, it brings the conversation lower and turns a thread into a flame. I try to read all of these mails and I prefer when things are in the positive. That's what keeps me motivated and everyone motivated to contribute. Keeping up morale is a big deal, especially in the floss world. What about a democratically elected council that is renewed every quarter? Or using a flex/flow organizational model like holacracy as I has put forth for recommendation? I think roles are very important, and they keep people focused and in the right kind of relationship with each other. I like the idea of a dynamic social network of passionate contributors, how can we create that? It's important to think about the picture of the future because then we can all contribute to that picture. So why not paint the most incredible thing we can envision and find out how to get there? That's how scenario planners and futurists work with corporations. And I think we can all recognize great products that come out of great teams, and usually those teams are formed by a common context and vision. Can't we all just get along? ;) -Paul On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Darius Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, you are completely wrong. I always and ever speak for myself. he wants to speak for them all NO NO NO (see above) There is a serious problem at maemo, as some guys from maemo don't need any community, any open discussion, any collaboration. What they need is power. Yesterday one guy from maemo said communities need moderators . Open free source software developers don't need moderators. What I develop and test is multitouch solutions, gesture recognition, new user-computer interfaces and the like. There is no place at maemo for such work, solutions. I tried to subscribe to developers section at Maemo 3 times and 3 times server generated nothing what could let me in. So I gave up, still working at some other places. I don't need moderators from maemo to control what I should work on. Managing Multimedia Magazines at Google I don't need third party moderators as it's me who can hold a position of a moderator. Fight for leadership at Maemo is what kills Maemo and any idea of Nokia to have Maemo to work for the benefit of Nokia. Get real man, there are hundreds of hot places globe-wide, you an develop your ideas, projects, solutions in nice association, no moderators, full democracy and you an still say NO for Maemo Community Council not hurting anyone. Darius http://groups.google.com/group/metallica4you/web/magazines?hl=en --- On Fri, 13/6/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: maemo.org community leadership - the maemo.org Community Council To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Date: Friday, 13 June, 2008, 9:18 PM Any activities by communities financed, sponsored, donated by Nokia or other corporations, must follow the basic goal of the corporation. In general yes, and here the community adds value to Nokia. So there should be no problem unless this is all simply a rant against Nokia/commercial use of Linux, and in fact you had no intention of giving any useful input to the questions that were posed? This does in fact appear to be a rant from Darius Jack. I have not found any references to anything he has contributed to any open source community, yet he wants to speak for them all. The relationship between commercial entities and the open source community has been explained to him more than once, but he does not care to understand. Time to flip the bozo bit. Ed Okerson ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https
Re: Nokia N810 and FTDI
Is it possible to run usbcontrol from the command line? I would like to be able to run it whenever I boot. The idea would be to turn the n800 into an appliance which is a USB host. Obviously it would make a lousy appliance if it came up in the wrong mode after a boot. -- Allen Brown http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown Hi, On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 8:00 PM, siempre.aprendiendo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, this (https://garage.maemo.org/projects/usb-otg-plugin/) is the driver about which I said that there are some problems reported in the forum (fro example https://garage.maemo.org/forum/forum.php?thread_id=2656forum_id=2256), and I'm not sure if it's working ok. I would like to be sure before buying the Nokia N810 :) I have used usbcontrol [1] and it worked fine. Cheers [1] http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/usbcontrol/ nick loeve escribió: Hi On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 6:19 PM, Jose Jose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to know if someone have connected any ftdi device (USB-serial) . I have learnt that there is a driver that changes to USB host, but the are are some comments from people who have problems using it... You will need to compile some kernel modules. Some instructions for connecting to an arduino (uses ftdi serial to usb) are here: http://blog.locationist.net/2008/03/16/arduino-interaction/ Cheers I would like to use Nokia N810 as the brain of a AX12+ (Robotis) based robot. Connecting the digital servos AX12+ to the N810 with the FTDI based usb2dynamixel. Thanks! ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers -- Nick Loeve ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: policy: maemo packaging policy -draft
Yes, that is why I have created several new menus. Once that actually make a little sense. It is then easy to select them instead of Extras. -- Allen Brown http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown Hi, Allen Brown wrote: * Interactive prompts from maintainer scripts (such as asking where do you want to stick this new thing in your menus) are annoying for the user. I'd be inclined to add a sentence or two saying that these SHOULD be avoided where possible. Speaking as a user, the *lack* of asking which menu this belongs under is annoying. Stuffing all add-ons into Extras sucks. I want my tools organized according to uses, not according to which person developed them. Personally, I would vastly prefer a system like .desktop files where the developer says what categories the application is in, and it gets placed in the relevant menu(s). I don't like having to enter a menu name for, say, a game, when it should obviously go in the (non-existent) Games menu. Cheers, Dave. -- maemo.org docsmaster Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: policy: maemo packaging policy -draft
* Interactive prompts from maintainer scripts (such as asking where do you want to stick this new thing in your menus) are annoying for the user. I'd be inclined to add a sentence or two saying that these SHOULD be avoided where possible. Speaking as a user, the *lack* of asking which menu this belongs under is annoying. Stuffing all add-ons into Extras sucks. I want my tools organized according to uses, not according to which person developed them. -- Allen Brown abrown at peak.org http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown/ I have noticed that the people who are late are often so much jollier than the people who have to wait for them. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: Hello Maemo - CFSONID 2008
On Wed, Jun 04, 2008 at 12:23:15PM +0200, Robert Schuster wrote: So the answer is no. As long as Maemo's goal is not 'providing a 100% free platform' as well I[0] will not contribute[1] to it and I expect that with more and more freedom respecting projects/products you will have a hard time finding people who do. This is what I had in mind in my LinuxTag maemo.org presentation: there are people who will not want to contribute to Maemo just because Nokia does not completely adhere to the free software principles. By that I did not mean to imply that Nokia should put free software above their bottom line. My point was that Nokia should evaluate the extra value received from free software zealots (this word is probably too strong, but I don't have the time right now to pick a better one) with value lost from opening their proprietary components. Nokia will not be able to estimate the value of contributions by outsiders. However they can estimate the value lost from opening up. They won't bet a known against an unknown. What they have done instead is to run an experiment. That experiment is the n800 and family. I say all this as an outsider. I don't speak for Nokia. Rather I am describing the general attitudes I have experienced from within a different large corporation. Unfortunately I'm no economist and I cannot evaluate either. Looking at the increasing popularity of free software in the IT sector it seems to me that free software benefits outweigh proprietary benefits, but this is not a choice I can make for Nokia; it's one Nokia has to make for themselves. Marius Gedminas Nokia is not likely to see it the same way. Not until they see proof. -- Allen Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown/ One person, one vote (Except in Ohio or Florida.) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: hildon_color_button custom colors issue
I think that is still incorrect. You should divide by 256. That is exactly equivalent to shifting the bits to the right by 8. That moves the bits you want into the byte you need. -- Allen Brown http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Aniello Del Sorbo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyway.. the first issue below happened because I was running Xournal from root in an SSH remote shell. Thus, probably, colormaps were wrong. Running it the usual way (from the Menu) fixed a bit things. The GdkColor returned by the hildon color chooser was, when drawn on the canvas, slightly different from the one showed in the button itself. I think it looked darker. After digging a bit I figured out that the GdkColor RGB values where RGB16 (guint16) while I needed the RGB8 format (for the fill-color-rgba property). Thus, I had to first divide red, green and blue by 255 before putting them into a single guint value (RGBA) in the form of 0xRRGGBBAA. guint rgba = GNOME_CANVAS_COLOR_A (color-red / 255.0, color-green / 255.0, color-blue / 255.0, alpha) Further corrected, the divisor should not be 255 but 257 (0x101) instead. Otherwise the reduction from RGB16 to RGB8 does not work. RGB16 is in the form: 0x i.e. values range from 0 to 65535 RGB8 is in the form 0xRRGGBB i.e. values range from 0 to 255. Sorry if this is stuff people already know, but I am new to it and couldn't find much about it. -- anidel ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [RFC] Maemo package guidelines: mandatory categories
Yes! Yes! A thousand times, yes! -- Allen Brown http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown Hi all, Here is my first suggestion to clean up the complete mess we have at the moment when it comes to package categories in the maemo extras repository. There is no official list of categories, which has brought us to state we are in now. We have these nice categories for example: 'Boingo', 'Canola'. Those should never be a category by themselves. We also have a lot of duplicates like 'cli' ,'Commandline' and 'Web','www' and 'Utilities','utils'. This really has to stop as this is confusing for end users. We, the maemo community, need to find a solution and fix this. If we look at Debian, we can see that they have the following list of categories[1]: admin, base, comm, contrib, devel, doc, editors, electronics, embedded, games, gnome, graphics, hamradio, interpreters, kde, libs, libdevel, mail, math, misc, net, news, non-free, oldlibs, otherosfs, perl, python, science, shells, sound, tex, text, utils, web, x11 My suggestion would be to base our list off the Debian list and remove the categories that are not suitable for Maemo. We might also want to add some categories if we find some missing. admin, comm, devel, doc, editors, games, graphics, interpreters, mail, net, news, utils and add: desktop, database, education, internet, multimedia, office, scientific, security, system, travel Please feel free to suggest other categories. Try to keep them as broad as possible. I would really like to get a list of categories where every application can be in at least one category. It would be nice not to need the 'misc' or 'other' category. Perhaps it would also be a good idea to have the Application Manager display the pretty name for each category. e.g. comm - Communication. That might be step 2 though. I also would like your feedback on this idea: For diablo we only accept packages in the extras/extras-devel repositories when they have a valid category. I'm really not sure if we can do this in time for diablo, but at least we can try to get the community to agree on this. I don't think we can do anything for existing repositories, but at least we could try for the new ones. Please respond with your ideas, but keep it to the category subject only. - Niels [1]Debian Sections: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: swap not a substitute for virtual memory
The subject line is incorrect. Swap is the portion of virtual memory which is not physical. What you should have said is swap not a substitute for *physical* memory. -- Allen Brown http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown At Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:18:29 -0400, Ian Lawrence wrote: Hi, The issue is more that the whole Web 2.0 hasn't been planned to be run in 64MB of RAM. There are sites out there where a single Flash object or JavaScript script consumes more memory. Even 128MB is tight. But, I mean it is possible to increase the amount of memory available for a 770 using an MMC card, right?. I am not sure what the upper limit is but 128MB + 64MB of system memory seems feasible. You are confused about what swap is. Swap allows the memory manager to page (save) anonymous memory to backing store (which in this case is your disk). If union of the working set of the active applications (the memory they need to run with only a trivial amount of faults, i.e., page-ins) exceeds the amount of *RAM*, then your system thrashes. As disk is several orders of magnitude slower than RAM, in such a case, your system makes no useful progress and will appear to you to have frozen. The advantage of swap then, is that if you are running e.g. Mozilla and its working set is large, then the memory manager can page the anonymous memory of background applications (as well as the anonymous memory that Mozilla uses, which is hopefully inactive). Without swap, the only data that the memory manager can page is that associated with files. So, program and library text, data files, etc. The problem is that most programs don't use the disk format for the data they use: on bringing it into memory, they convert it to a form useful for in-memory operations. Thus, a lot of the memory on your system will be occupied by such computed data, which, without swap, is locked in memory until it is explicitly freed. For what it is worth, after I removed /usr/bin/metalayer-crawler, my system went from being completely unusable for anything but being a broken alarm clock to being relatively useful. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Q: Where submit patches?
Is this an appropriate venue to propose patches? I have a small change to /etc/udhcpc/udhcpc.script which allows it to connect to more sites. -- Allen Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://brown.armoredpenguin.com/~abrown/ Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
