Re: Ask for removal of some packages from Extras Fremantle repository

[Bernd Stramm]

GPL issues below

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Darren Long  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> See below ...
>
> On 22 Mar 2010, at 19:55, Till Harbaum / Lists wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > why should you have to continue to provide the sources once you removed
> the binaries?
>
> Doesn't the GPL say so?  I believe that if the source isn't provided with
> the binaries, then it has to be available for 3 years, from those who
> distributed the binaries, which in this case is maemo.org.
>
> My example of pygtkeditor isn't such a great one. As it is written in
> python, the source ships to all recipients anyway, so perhaps I should have
> stayed in my hole and kept quiet :)
>
> >
> > And why should you insist
>
> Because the GPL says we can.
>

The GPL says he has to make the source code available. It doesn't say that
is has to be in a particular place. So I don't think you can tell him where
that place is.

>
> > on uploading old versions to maemo respositories
>
> I'm just not inclined to support the removal of open source packages from
> the maemo.org repos, when we/they don't have to.  We/they could just push
> new builds through extras as and when new packages appear on any other repo,
> as with any other free package, so there's no reason why they would be (too)
> old.
>
> > which a) just ignores the authors wishes and worse b) interferes with his
> work on establishing his own repository.
>
> If those wishes aren't aligned with the GPL, then I'm not sure I'm all that
> bothered (again I'm not being specific to this case - no offence Benoit, but
> in general) by them.
>
> Issues with a repository clash are a problem, though.  Its not as if anyone
> can just switch distros from maemo so there are obviously ramifications if
> the wishes don't come true.
>
> Maybe there is a more appropriate solution that could be reached than the
> one being advocated.
>
> >
> > Let him his freedom. Let him start his own repository and just see if he
> fails and ends up on those "warning, this repository is dangerous" lists or
> if he perhaps succeeds and ends as "the famous community driven repository
> that is more reliable and causes less anger and has cooler apps than the
> maemo repositories"?
>
> Do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?  I seem to remember
> that Spock and Kirk had different views and my ears are a little bit pointy
> :)
>
> >
> > Who knows? Why not just letting him do this? Don't take all this so
> serious! Heck, it's only a cell phone we are talking about. It's not the end
> of the world if someone actually has fun messing with its possibilities.
>
> Its not this specific case I have issues with, its the principle, in
> general, of withdrawing GPL code from the maemo.org repos.  No-one has the
> right to require its removal.
>
> Darren
>
> >
> > Till
> >
> > Am Montag 22 März 2010 schrieb Darren Long:
> >> Presumably the source must continue to be available from the extras
> repositories, even after the package binaries have been removed, assuming
> its under the GPL, which e.g. Pygtkeditor is.
> >>
> >> I'd suggest not removing the binary packages from extras, on the grounds
> that they don't have to be removed, and that maemo.org is free to
> distribute them if we/they so wish.
> >>
> >> Furthermore, there is no reason why someone from maemo.org shouldn't
> push source packages from  other repositories into extras* to keep them up
> to date and readily available in the maemo context.  This is true for any
> upstream free package  in general, and equally true for any desirable
> package that just so happens to have been pulled from extras on a whim.
> >>
> >> No disrespect to Benoit intended.
> >>
> >> Darren
> >
>
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Re: SQLite

[Bernd Stramm]

On Sat, 2010-03-13 at 00:22 -0500, Demetris wrote:
> Has anyone used SQLite clients implemented in Java (j2me cdc)? If not 
> what are the popular
> choices for such clients? Python? Perl?

C++ with Qt works as far as I can tell.

Bernd

> 
> Thanks
> 
> Demetris wrote:
> >
> > So yes - the SQLite2 binaries from the Extras repos works fine on the 
> > M810 under Diablo so far. So
> > I will need to find the compatible python / perl or java connectors to 
> > attach to the databases I am creating
> > I assume.
> >
> > Demetris wrote:
> >>
> >> Hey Florian,
> >>
> >> makes sense of course - I gave them a shot anyway because that's 
> >> where the link from the repository
> >> (if you search for SQLite under Diablo) sends you too. However, from 
> >> the info Fred sent I was able
> >> to find the right binraries and I will try them out today.
> >>
> >> Also thanks to Nick for the detailed compilation instructions on the 
> >> source and to Graham for the
> >> info on the SQLite2 that may be the solution I need to follow up on.
> >>
> >> I will send an update on the list after I set things up.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Florian Boor wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Demetris schrieb:
> >>>  
>  I was able to install and run mySQL on both the N800 and N810 
>  fairly easy. I
>  want to also test out the SQLite - I download the binaries for it 
>  from> the SQLite
>  site (http://www.sqlite.org/sqlite3-3.6.22.bin.gz), chmod on it to x,
>  and launch but
>  it fails - meaning it is not actiing as a binary for Linux. Any 
>  ideas or
>  any links to
>  SQLite software for Diablo?
>  
> >>>
> >>> these binaries can't work because they are built for x86 
> >>> architecture but not
> >>> for the ARM CPU in your tablet.
> >>> The feeds should have both SQLite 2 and SQLite 3.
> >>>
> >>> Greetings
> >>>
> >>> Florian
> >>>
> >>>   
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> >>
> >
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Re: Performance of floating point instructions

[Bernd Stramm]

On Wed, 2010-03-10 at 20:29 +0200, Alberto Mardegan wrote:
> Alberto Mardegan wrote:
> > Does one have any figure about how the performance of the FPU is, 
> > compared to integer operations?
> 
> I added some profiling to the code, and I measured the time spent by a 
> function which is operating on an array of points (whose coordinates are 
> integers) and trasforming each of them into a geographic coordinates 
> (latitude and longitude, floating point) and calculating the distance 
> from the previous point.
> 
> http://vcs.maemo.org/git?p=maemo-mapper;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/gps_control
> map_path_calculate_distances() is in path.c,
> calculate_distance() is in utils.c,
> unit2latlon() is a pointer to unit2latlon_google() in tile_source.c
> 
> 
> The output (application compiled with -O0):
> 
> 
> double:
> 
> map_path_calculate_distances: 110 ms for 8250 points
> map_path_calculate_distances: 5 ms for 430 points
> 
> map_path_calculate_distances: 109 ms for 8250 points
> map_path_calculate_distances: 5 ms for 430 points
> 
> 
> float:
> 
> map_path_calculate_distances: 60 ms for 8250 points
> map_path_calculate_distances: 3 ms for 430 points
> 
> map_path_calculate_distances: 60 ms for 8250 points
> map_path_calculate_distances: 3 ms for 430 points
> 
> 
> float with fast FPU mode:
> 
> map_path_calculate_distances: 50 ms for 8250 points
> map_path_calculate_distances: 2 ms for 430 points
> 
> map_path_calculate_distances: 50 ms for 8250 points
> map_path_calculate_distances: 2 ms for 430 points
> 
> 
> So, it seems that there's a huge improvements when switching from 
> doubles to floats; although I wonder if it's because of the FPU or just 
> because the amount of data passed around is smaller.

Right, is your experiment actually measuring floating point performance,
or is that swamped out by memory accesses, or some bus transfers or
something like that?

> On the other hand, the improvements obtained by enabling the fast FPU 
> mode is rather small -- but that might be due to the fact that the FPU 
> operations are not a major player in this piece of code.
> 
> One curious thing is that while making these changes, I forgot to change 
> the math functions to there float version, so that instead of using:
> 
> float x, y;
> x = sinf(y);
> 
> I was using:
> 
> float x, y;
> x = sin(y);
> 
> The timings obtained this way are surprisingly (at least to me) bad:
> 
> map_path_calculate_distances: 552 ms for 8250 points
> map_path_calculate_distances: 92 ms for 430 points
> 
> map_path_calculate_distances: 552 ms for 8250 points
> map_path_calculate_distances: 91 ms for 430 points
> 
> Much worse than the double version. The only reason I can think of, is 
> the conversion from float to double and vice versa, but is it really 
> that expensive?
> 
> Anyway, I'll stick to using 32bit floats. :-)
> 

It is often hard to tell how much difference optimizing a particular
operation makes. If the setup is cheaper for the slower operation, do
you gain anything by using faster ops? Hard to measure sometimes.

Like racing, it's not how fast you go, it's when you get there.

Bernd



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Re: A proper home page in maemo.org with help wiki for each app in Extras

[Bernd Stramm]

On 12/02/10 15:05, Sascha Mäkelä wrote:
While writing help files for my current project, I came to a 
conclusion that it would be easier to have the app simply point to a 
wiki page. This way a new version of the app would not be needed for 
changes/corrections in the documentation.


Now since we already have a Downloads page in maemo.org 
 for all the apps in Extras, why not add a proper 
wiki for them too. This could be optional, of course. But I would see 
this as a good way of having consistent documentation for apps in Extras.


While we are on the subject of a home page for each app, let me bring 
up the donate button again. This would be an easy and consistent place 
to put it. Again, this would be optional.


What do you think? Could this work or am I completely misguided here?


Cheers,

Sascha


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It is good to assume the least when users go to the help facility of an app.
For example, it is good to not assume that you have network connectivity
when the user needs help. I would include at least a minimal help page
that resides on the device. Perhaps even in the app code.

Happy sailing,

Bernd


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Re: Packaging questions

[Bernd Stramm]

On 09/02/10 08:29, Dave Neary wrote:

Hi,

Ajai Khattri wrote:
   

That depends, but for the current situation, I would say no. Firstly,
creating multiple binary packages is harder than a single binary, though
not by much. I recommend you start out with just a single binary if you
can.
   

OK, but Im curious: what would be an example of a package with multiple
binaries?
 

binutils, for example?
gcc has a few (c89&  c99 versions, for example)
textutils
openssh (scp, sftp, ssh, ...)
   


git, imagemagick, mysql, ...


   

2) I got an error saying it could not find package.orig.tar.gz - what does
that mean?
 

This means you do not have an original tarball of your package that has the 
suffix orig.tar.gz.

Take a look at the debian documentation here which should help: 
http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-first.en.html#s-dh_make
   

So, to clarify, I need to have a tarball of the original source inside the
untarred tarball build directory? :-)
 

Have a look at this page:
http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging#A_concrete_example_-_rot13

dh_make takes a -f argument that points to the original .tar.gz, and
generates rot13_0.1.orig.tar.gz, rot13_0.1-1.diff.gz, rot13_0.1-1.dsc
and rot13_0.1-1_i386.changes afterwards.


   

I was following the Maemo docs which dont mention anything about licenses.

Maybe there ought to be a link to the dh_make man page from there?
 

Which docs were you following, and how did you get there? we're trying
to make http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging the standard "quick start" page,
and
http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing
and http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ the definitive "more than you
ever needed or wanted to know about Debian packaging, but were too
afraid to ignore" pages.

Cheers,
Dave.

   


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Re: how to make a splash screen with Qt

[Bernd Stramm]

On 08/02/10 14:15, Timo Härkönen wrote:

Hi


You need to set a window property that tells HD to skip the
transitions:

static void set_no_transitions (Display *dpy, Window w)
{
 Atom no_trans;
 int one = 1;
 no_trans = XInternAtom (dpy, "_HILDON_WM_ACTION_NO_TRANSITIONS",
False);
 XChangeProperty (dpy, w, no_trans,
  XA_CARDINAL, 32, PropModeReplace,
  (unsigned char *)&one, 1);
}


Thanks for the hint. I updated the wiki page with this information.

-Timo

Isn't this fixed in Qt 4.6? It seems to work on the FREMANTLE_X86. Also 
says that a few centimers down on the wiki.




--Kimmo

>
> thank you in advance;
>
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Re: Maintenance of ported apps

[Bernd Stramm]

On 01/02/10 05:49 AM, Jeremiah Foster wrote:

On Feb 1, 2010, at 7:13 AM, Ville M. Vainio wrote:

   

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:57 AM,  wrote:

 

Im very interested in porting apps to Maemo but I have concerns about the
long-term maintenance of the apps.
   

Unfortunately the process is not codified, many assumptions are made. For 
example, the expectation is that if you have found an application or library 
you like in debian and have ported it to maemo, you will continue to take care 
of it as the OS and app changes.

Now, there are no loss of privileges if you fail to keep the package up to date or if you 
go MIA, like there is in debian. It is a bit of a grey area as to what happens if someone 
else wants to take over your package if it is out of date. This process is somewhat 
informal in debian with some unwritten rules. One of the unwritten rules is that it is 
considered inappropriate to "hijack" someone else's package. I think this is a 
good rule and something we should consider.

   
This area is sort of problematic in many respects. Hijacking someone's 
package can suppress good work and good people. And it is quite 
disrespectful.


On the other hand, there is that expectation that if person X provides a 
package (through porting or through a fresh new package), then person X 
has to provide free updates for the next 100 years. Not very respectful 
either.



Bernd

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