Re: Nokia netbook
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009, Gary wrote: The catch will be whether they release drivers for the HSPA broadband chipset ... Drivers for the HSPA chipset? Almost all GPRS/UMTS/HSPA modems appear to the CPU as a serial device and need standard AT commands for connection management. The only exception I know of are HSO modems, and even those use a serial port and AT commands for management. -- Matan. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Matan Ziv-Av wrote: Almost all GPRS/UMTS/HSPA modems appear to the CPU as a serial device and need standard AT commands for connection management. Oh yeah -- I forgot about that. There's a way to use those modems with OS X that involve some configuration of PPP. Is that the same way a connection is initiated under Linux? -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Kevin T. Neely wrote: Actually, it's a new MSFT technology called DirectConnect (or DirectAccess or something like that) that is basically a multi-path IPv6 IPSEC tunnel. I guess they can say no VPN needed because it only goes to the corp network when it needs to, but this seems to be really splitting hairs and I think of it as a VPN. There are some cases where DirectAccess could be advantageous since it will work behind any firewall (falls back to port 443 for outbound connections). The main drawbacks are that it will only work for people using Windows 7 clients and have an end point service running on a Win2008r2 server. Plus, it connects automatically (not user initiated like VPN). It's disingenuous of Nokia to suggest that this feature distinguishes the the Booklet 3G from other netbooks since it will be available on any portable device running Win7. Also, it may be trivial to use from the end user's perspective but only after a sysadmin or two has enabled and tested the service on the company's network. q.v. this white paper comparing/contrasting DirectAccess and VPN: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=147083 It supports multi-factor authentication (of course, this will kill the seamless nature) so I would bet this will replace the MS PPTP solution. IPsec is already a viable alternative to PPTP. Even so, PPTP is secure if deployed properly. The main advantage of PPTP is that Windows and OS X include easy to configure clients. On the other hand, the open source VPNC IPsec client for Linux (and even Windows) is easy to use once configured properly. But these aren't really Nokia or maemo topics per se... -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
But they _should_ offer it as a purchase option, and let those of us who would rather do without Windows get a better price. As I understand it, the per unit price for Windows to an OEM is something like $25/unit, not the $100+ that end users pay (kind of stupid marketing but that's MS for you). So the markup for bundling a Windows OS is modest -- probably easily offset by improved marketability of a Windows vs Linux netbook for the masses. For those who really want Ubuntu, you can always add a dual boot Ubuntu partition on your own. Typically, most netbooks these days have 120 or more Gs of HD space -- plenty for a second OS partition. Always, Fred C ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 11:24 AM, lakestevensdentallakestevensden...@verizon.net wrote: But they _should_ offer it as a purchase option, and let those of us who would rather do without Windows get a better price. As I understand it, the per unit price for Windows to an OEM is something like $25/unit, not the $100+ that end users pay (kind of stupid marketing but that's MS for you). So the markup for bundling a Windows OS is modest -- probably easily offset by improved marketability of a Windows vs Linux netbook for the masses. For those who really want Ubuntu, you can always add a dual boot Ubuntu partition on your own. Typically, most netbooks these days have 120 or more Gs of HD space -- plenty for a second OS partition. Always, Fred C But $25 is nothing to sneeze at. I would still rather pay $25 less and install kubuntu on the entire drive than pay $25 more and end up with dual-boot. Either way, it's still Linux I'll be using, so why should I have to pay extra for something I neither want nor need? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
Mark wrote: On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 11:24 AM, lakestevensdentallakestevensden...@verizon.net wrote: But they _should_ offer it as a purchase option, and let those of us who would rather do without Windows get a better price. As I understand it, the per unit price for Windows to an OEM is something like $25/unit, not the $100+ that end users pay (kind of stupid marketing but that's MS for you). So the markup for bundling a Windows OS is modest -- probably easily offset by improved marketability of a Windows vs Linux netbook for the masses. For those who really want Ubuntu, you can always add a dual boot Ubuntu partition on your own. Typically, most netbooks these days have 120 or more Gs of HD space -- plenty for a second OS partition. Always, Fred C But $25 is nothing to sneeze at. I would still rather pay $25 less and install kubuntu on the entire drive than pay $25 more and end up with dual-boot. Either way, it's still Linux I'll be using, so why should I have to pay extra for something I neither want nor need? You appear to be ignoring the power of numbers. Nokia's netbook, bundled with Windows will sell far more units with than without. The larger quantity sold with Windows will allow Nokia to produce sell their netbook for less than otherwise, perhaps more than $25 less. Besides, having to manage a smallish inventory for a Windowless version would be a hassle (expense) for Nokia and sellers. So get over the $25 cost of Windows. If you want an Ubuntu netbook, just install it when you get it. FYI, I've been there done that with an eeeUbuntu netbook. I installed Ubuntu over Xandros. Then I installed nlited XP SP3 so my daughter could use it at college (which requires a Windows or Mac OS to work with the college's net security). Of the three OSs I installed, XP appears to run the best, it even boots in less than 20 seconds. I guess this is another way of saying that if one trims all of the crap off of Windows XP, it actually runs pretty nice, without the occasional Ubuntu hassle of not being able to install some non-existant Ubuntu flash to get web video to work properly. Which isn't to say the XP that comes with netbooks is nLited... Always, Fred C ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
On 08/26/2009 04:37 PM, lakestevensdental wrote: Mark wrote: On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 11:24 AM, lakestevensdentallakestevensden...@verizon.net wrote: But they _should_ offer it as a purchase option, and let those of us who would rather do without Windows get a better price. As I understand it, the per unit price for Windows to an OEM is something like $25/unit, not the $100+ that end users pay (kind of stupid marketing but that's MS for you). So the markup for bundling a Windows OS is modest -- probably easily offset by improved marketability of a Windows vs Linux netbook for the masses. For those who really want Ubuntu, you can always add a dual boot Ubuntu partition on your own. Typically, most netbooks these days have 120 or more Gs of HD space -- plenty for a second OS partition. Always, Fred C But $25 is nothing to sneeze at. I would still rather pay $25 less and install kubuntu on the entire drive than pay $25 more and end up with dual-boot. Either way, it's still Linux I'll be using, so why should I have to pay extra for something I neither want nor need? You appear to be ignoring the power of numbers. Nokia's netbook, bundled with Windows will sell far more units with than without. The larger quantity sold with Windows will allow Nokia to produce sell their netbook for less than otherwise, perhaps more than $25 less. Besides, having to manage a smallish inventory for a Windowless version would be a hassle (expense) for Nokia and sellers. So get over the $25 cost of Windows. If you want an Ubuntu netbook, just install it when you get it. FYI, I've been there done that with an eeeUbuntu netbook. I installed Ubuntu over Xandros. Then I installed nlited XP SP3 so my daughter could use it at college (which requires a Windows or Mac OS to work with the college's net security). Of the three OSs I installed, XP appears to run the best, it even boots in less than 20 seconds. I guess this is another way of saying that if one trims all of the crap off of Windows XP, it actually runs pretty nice, without the occasional Ubuntu hassle of not being able to install some non-existant Ubuntu flash to get web video to work properly. Which isn't to say the XP that comes with netbooks is nLited... I have a Lenovo S10 netbook dual booting Windows XP and Fedora Core 11 (with rpmfusion software repository enabled for non-free stuff). I much prefer Fedora over XP. Fedora works well: wireless, suspend, hibernate, flash videos, videos (via VLC) all work great. I use Sunbird calendar, and Thunderbird for email. And I get my Unix development tools that I am used to (emacs, gcc, etc..) without hassle. And when I need to run the occasional Windows app I have XP --shiv-- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
lakestevensdental wrote: You appear to be ignoring the power of numbers. Nokia's netbook, bundled with Windows will sell far more units with than without. The larger quantity sold with Windows will allow Nokia to produce sell their netbook for less than otherwise, perhaps more than $25 less. Besides, having to manage a smallish inventory for a Windowless version would be a hassle (expense) for Nokia and sellers. So get over the $25 cost of Windows. If you want an Ubuntu netbook, just install it when you get it. The hassle you speak of comes from dealing with an 800 pound gorilla that has historically only been reigned in by the Commission of the European Communities. The US Dept of Justice lawsuit only taught Microsoft to continue to buy whatever mind share they want so long as they don't get caught doing it. It ultimately comes down to end users having a productive dialogue with their vendors. DELL has a website (ideastorm.com) for just such a thing. Also, there are plenty of resources out there for promoting Linux and open source software in general. In summary, the most successful tactics I've used and heard about over the years are quite simple; don't be a jerk. DELL welcomes customer feedback about their experimentation with Linux devices. Some of it's distilled in the quotes below but there is plenty more information in the source article and elsewhere. -Gary Speaking at OpenSource World, ... Todd Finch, Dell senior product marketing manager, said the number of Linux returns are approximately the same as those for Windows netbooks. ... Dell sells three machines running the Ubuntu Linux distro: the Atom-based Mini 10v, which can be classed as a netbook, plus the Inspiron 15n and XPS M1330n that run Core 2 Duo chips. ... Where consumers have returned machines, Finch said, it wasn't because of technical problems but because they'd bought a low-priced machine expecting Windows and opened it to find a different interface. Consumers had responded to the low price, he said - the Mini 10v retails for $299 online. 'Now we are trying to be a little more explicit in our advertising,' Finch said. 'We are not seeing any technical reasons for why they are returning Linux machines so...we don't see a significant difference between the return rate for Windows versus the rate for Linux. We've been quite pleased with the stability and technical soundness of the Linux machines.' ... Microsoft is famous for having locked down the retail channel by providing retailers with cash and marketing resources to enable everything from endorsements of Windows on PCs to stocking and positioning of product in the stores and on shelves. http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/08/12/dell_reality_linux_windows_netbooks ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
s...@ece.ucsb.edu wrote ---I have a Lenovo S10 netbook dual booting Windows XP and Fedora Core 11 (with rpmfusion software repository enabled for non-free stuff). I much prefer Fedora over XP. Fedora works well: wireless, suspend, hibernate, flash videos, videos (via VLC) all work great. I use Sunbird calendar, and Thunderbird for email. And I get my Unix development tools that I am used to (emacs, gcc, etc..) without hassle. And when I need to run the occasional Windows app I have XP A dual boot is a good way to go. There are a number of good Linux distros... I'm a tennis buff and with Windows, I can watch a variety of live matches on ESPN.com because I use one of ESPN's broadband affiliates (Verizon). This requires a special flash/activeX that, last I checked, wasn't available on Ubuntu. If I had an Ubuntu only netbook, I'd be out of luck at least until the plugin comes available.. Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if someday soon MS starts messing with not providing its XP world with support to maintain Vista capable plugins and flashes -- hopefully Ubuntu (or some other distro) will have caught up by then... I sort of given up hope that Maemo will every catch up with new flashes for the n810 world, but one never knows. As a aside, I'm a UCSB grad -- molecular bio. UCSB is the best University experience available -- hard to beat being surrounded by beach on two sides. Study hard, party harder... :) Always, Fred C ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: Nokia netbook
lakestevensdental wrote: Mark wrote: But $25 is nothing to sneeze at. I would still rather pay $25 less and install kubuntu on the entire drive than pay $25 more and end up with dual-boot. Either way, it's still Linux I'll be using, so why should I have to pay extra for something I neither want nor need? You appear to be ignoring the power of numbers. Nokia's netbook, bundled with Windows will sell far more units with than without. The larger quantity sold with Windows will allow Nokia to produce sell their netbook for less than otherwise, perhaps more than $25 less. Besides, having to manage a smallish inventory for a Windowless version would be a hassle (expense) for Nokia and sellers. So get over the $25 cost of Windows. If you want an Ubuntu netbook, just install it when you get it. You're not making any sense whatsoever. It doesn't cost anything for them to maintain a small inventory of OS-less machines - all they have to do is skip a few steps in manufacturing - and the number of Windows machines they sell just makes it that much easier for them to give a discount for OS-less machines. After all, you don't actually think they're making Windows available at cost, do you? Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
