Brainstorm (was Re: SkypeOut costs in fremantle)
What do you think, is this enhancement worth to be added to maemo bugzilla? You mean http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/ :) -- Sent with Maemo 5 by Quim Gil open source advocate Maemo Devices @ Nokia ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: Microb Versus Mozilla Fennec
Hi, This is actually where the Mozilla version has a very distinct advantage: they plan to support plug-ins, and there will be much more functionality. The current MicroB has some serious shortcomings in that area. There are some rather basic and important settings and functionality that are missing from MicroB. Note that you are comparing Fennec's future (their plans) with MicroB's past (the version you are using today). Today Fennec has more shortcomings than our Mozilla based browser from a end user point of view and this is why makes total sense to continue releasing it. In my earlier post I said that our browser development is being done nowadays on the Gecko trunk (practically same as Fennec) and we are also willing to embrace the Firefox add-on developer community. Fennec will improve thanks to Nokia's work and the other way round, such are the wonders of open source. If you're going to call it an Internet Tablet, and claim that is its only purpose, then you'd better make sure that it can deliver fully on that promise. Sure. Deliver fully is not that simple but in relative terms, can you point someone shipping today a mobile device with a browser offering you a fuller Internet experience? From my experience with Fennec, as well as the screen shots I've seen, the UI is a non-issue: Fennec already appears hildonized out of the box, and anyway one of the main areas that Mozilla is working on is to make their browsers appear more native regardless of what OS they are installed in. Of course, but the UI layer is deeper than that. I'm not sure the developers optimizing XUL for Fennec would agree on the UI is a non-issue. Funtionality and performance in the UI layer is a serious issue for any browser development nowadays and the UI layer sitting on top of MicroB today still does a better job. May this change in the future? Sure it can, and we are following that as well, but here and now we need to keep shipping a browser for real mobile users and we don't have the luxury to wait until others have done it. But Mark, the important detail I will insist on is: we are not fighting, we are collaborating. It is our priority to be as aligned with Mozilla upstream as possible, as it is also our interest to follow and support Mozilla's success in the mobile context. -- Quim Gil marketing manager, open source maemo software @ Nokia ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: Newbie cannot install osso-xterm
Go to http://downloads.maemo.org/product/osso-xterm-advanced with your tablet and click the green arrow. Press OK and some seconds later you will be done. - Tip to users: no matter what are you looking for, try first in http://downloads.maemo.org. Once you have tried the app take one minute to rate it and leave a comment. You will be *very* helpful to the next users after you. Tip to developers: no matter what applications you develop, make sure they have a nice and descriptive page in http://downloads.maemo.org with a tested install file. You will make users happy in a single click. Quim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: N800 Case - Still not here
I have just checked Nokia and Nseries websites and the case is there: http://europe.nokia.com/n800case http://www.nseries.com/index.html#l=products,n800,accessories On the other hand, are you comparing the N800 case people has been asking for with http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-advanced-00-develkit.html ? I have carried Openmoko's 'mysterious black box' and it's pretty cool. Hackers love it, well done. But it's nothing you drop in your pocket. It's simply not a case. Quim All, well this is not good.! Openmoko already has their carrying case available for order: http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdkit.html Does this mean that the Taiwanese companies are hitting on some marketing cylinders where Nokia is not? Speaking of Taiwan and China, now let's see who is the first to put a WIMAX chipset into an opensource mobile device. Given that Sprint has just announced that ZTE^1,2 (a Chinese manufacturer) is going to be Sprint's supplier for Cardbus/USB WIMAX adapters, I anticipate that the Openmoko team will push to get a WIMAX version of their platform tout suite and get it into the hands of the just announced Sprint/Clearwire WIMAX JV^3 . 1. http://telephonyonline.com/wimax/technology/sprint_zte_cpe_071707/ 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZTE 3. http://www2.sprint.com/mr/news_dtl.do?id=17520 -- Best Regards, John Holmblad Acadia Secure Networks mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!
Just a quickie while I'm writing a longer response: - maemo unstable repository. Let's talk about this, but it is a discussion that needs to be done with the developers and at a development level. The value of the distro relies on the use upstream and other third party developers would make of it. Users alone can try and test fresh software via partial releases, like we have done this week. The effort that implies to launch and maintain a distro is in a different magnitude, and I'm afraid this effort is not sustainable with power users alone. Let's move this discussion to an own thread in maemo-developers. - Improving extras repository. Maybe I'm wrong, but the process to get your packages in this repository is far less complex that the process you need to go through in order to get a similar access to the Debian or Ubuntu repos. Basically you need to get your .deb packages and .install files ready and you need to sound trustful when requesting upload permissions. The problem is probably elsewhere (you have made already some very good points) and we are happy investing time and resources fixing the problems i.e. providing more automation and integration between garage.m.o, extras repository and downloads.m.o. This is another discussion that needs to be held at a developer level, better at maemo-developers with own thread. Quim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: RTCom - SIP Service
I don't see it on the tableteer site. Tableteer is a site for end users and this software is under development, intended to developers and power users knowing what are they doing. Therefore http://maemo.org/ is the place. Please read the announcement before installing this software. Thank you. Quim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: my two big fustrations with the N800 - please help me find aworkaround!
Hi Andrei, How does one take something as beautiful as apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade and reduce it to such a total disaster?! We can't compare Nokia with the Debian project just because both use .deb packages. The software development process is different, the end users are different, the guarantees are different, the deadlines are different and etc. crashes, bugs, and other problems with new version of the OS! One problem with the backups caused trouble to some users in the last release, yes. The dist-upgrade is not exempt of risks and trouble either. Since the times of Woody I have suffered some troublesome upgrades, both with Debian and Ubuntu. Haven't you? So it's not that simple, specially if you are Nokia and you have to provide perfect dist-upgrade's to your customers under guarantee. Nokia followed a rather strange repo policy. We have to sort out our repositories in the maemo space (the packages for developers) but the rest (that is what concerns you) is more or less ok, although needs some improvement as well. You mention several repositories that don't belong to us. We don't respond of them. We can't and won't stop developers from creating their own repositories. We offer a single repository extras to the maemo community. Perhaps we can do better, so some of them prefer to come to extras instead of creating their own repos: http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1558 Why did Nokia not follow Ubuntu's policy of having a Main, Restricted, Universe and Multi- universe Because the Internet Tablet OS and the maemo SDK are not formed by a full distribution. In fact it's not that different (don't take this as literal): Main: more or less the Internet Tablet OS released as image, no packages. Restricted (+ Canonical Commercial?): http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/ Universe: http://repository.maemo.org/extras Multiverse: probably something in the extras repositories could fall here Then we have the maemo repositories, for developers, that need a better organization. We put them separate from tableteer or extras not to confuse end users. And there are multiple 3rd party repositories, which might be confusing. But well, Ubuntu users can also get lots of them i.e. http://www.debianadmin.com/ubuntu-edgy-eft-complete-sourceslist-reposito ry-list-file.html It depends on how far you want to go from what is stable and officially supported. Your choice. the iPhone offers you 10 applications (or whatever, I made this number up), the N800 offers 127 (or whatever number). Playing evil's advocate we could say that Symbian or Windows CE have a lot more without needing repositories. ;) Good tools for developers and a stable and attractive platform are heavier factors to get a wide collection of 3rd party applications. Imagine that we decide to put the 2 persons improving this instead of administrating a distro. But yes, got your point and we share your view on the benefits a distribution based on packages would bring. We probably have a more accurate idea of the effort and risks it takes, though. the folks who designed the N800 either were not truly used to the GNU/Linux way of doing things I must say that in our team there are several pharisees in the Debian APT doctrines, not to go in details about other corners of the GNU/Linux spectrum. or were overruled/micromanaged by a bunch of suits. Sorry, no suits involved. Last but not least, is there any hope at all to see an apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade -capable N800 in the future? Yes: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2007-July/010860.html Quim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: maemo.org b0rken links
Hum. worksforme. Anyone else notice that links like 'Documentation' http://maemo.org/development/documentation/ result in Parse error: syntax error, unexpected '' in /var/cache/midgard/midgard/7-49-31-0.php on line 138 (since ~ 2007-07-13T11:00:00Z) Please may this be fixed And apologies if there a more appropriate way to report such things. Quim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: WTF!?! Camera did not support taking movies?
It looks like you had installed before http://garage.maemo.org/projects/camera (unofficial version, with video support) and now you have installed the Camera application available in the Tableteer repository (official, without video support). If this is what is happened, then our answer in bugzilla is correct. In any case I agree it's confusing to have two different apps with a same name. Sending emails to the developers requesting that they make clear the difference. What the FSCK? The camera application MOST CERTAINLY DID support taking movies (albeit at a very low resolution) in the 2006 release. You mean the previous 2007 release. :) Also, sorry Tim for not locating/answering your email before. Quim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: Better planet layout through Greasemonkey/Stylish
So we met at #maemo and we discussed. Some pre-conclusions about planet.maemo.org improvement: - Keep the fixed width. - Keep the right column navigation, improved. No text wrap. Possibility to add more feeds underneath, tbc. - Keep the hackergotchis but embedded in the text. - Text flows from top left until right column limit, a widely used practice that provides 10-14 words. - maemo screenshot at 75% and YouTube window must fit. This is what we are going to try. Have a bit of patience, please. Embedding the hackergotchi in a bubble might not be easy from a design point. Perhaps we make a quick fix getting rid of it while the designer comes up with something great. Dunno if someone will work this weekend, otherwise at the end of Monday there should be progress visible. Quim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Garage project news (was RE: Plugins available for Maemo Claws-mail 2.9.2-1)
Hi, As you have seen now the http://maemo.org homepage features the news coming from http://garage.maemo.org, that are written directly by the project maintainers. Users can subscribe to feeds and be the first ones to know. Garage project maintainers, please make sure all your relevant updates are reflected there with as much detail as possible. The GForge interface is not the best in the world to publish news and receive feedback but it does both. As usual, please submit feature requests if you miss something. Sending emails to the mailing lists for new releases can't be considered off topic but with 200 projects in Garage (and growing) it is clear that it's not a sustainable practice in the mid term. Thanks for your understanding (and yes, specifically Claws mail project tends to publish news - I just needed an example to raise this topic). :) Quim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: Instant on Loading
Although only Simple if you know about it! User manual included in the sales box (paper) and the device (PDF). Page 15. Lock touch screen and keys. The s3kr3t combination of keys is unveiled there. Also, Disable wireless connections is described in page 24. Have a look to the manual, it even has some cool industrial icons (like page 5, some people like these things). Are they are any other combinations of key presses that result in a very handy time saving function? Make sure not to miss page 31. ;) Quim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Reading the manual (was RE: Instant on Loading)
so if you do not carry your manual with you ;) You do, unless you have deleted it from the Documents folder. oh come on ... surely you aren't expecting me to read the actual manual Only reading once the index would help any new tablet user a lot. Really. 1 extra minut for someone like you would save 1000 subscribers from having to deal with basic questions answered in plain English (+ a dozen of other languages) in your own tablet. Think about it. :) Quim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: Nokia N800 or N770 and very bad eyesight.
Hi, The keybouard would then be on a table, Yes, same as with a regular computer. and presumably the N800 would too, Well, not necessarely. Regular computers have screens on tables because it makes sense but also because they are heavy and tied to cables. This is not the case of the tablets. You might find alternatives to keep the screen at your desired distance, like the wind instrument musicians having the partiture in front of their eyes always. It would require some DIY nowadays, but perhaps you have hit a use cases where tablets are more competitive than regular screens? In fact music stands are already used to support computer monitors: http://therawfeed.com/pix/electronic_music_stand.jpg. A smaller stand for a smaller device would be an option, you might still search in the music field i.e. http://www.zzounds.com/item--QLKMS303 although perhaps you would find more and cheaper alternatives customizig camera tripods. The N800 would accept easier simple solutions since it has already a stand usable i any horizontal surface. Please share your progress if you follow these or another paths. It is good to know about use cases where tablets are more suitable than regulat computers. And more importantly for the context of this list, share any specific problems you find at a maemo/software level for users with eyesight problems. Thanks! Quim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Reporting bugs to bugzilla (was RE: URL for flasher?)
Hi, If you are missing something or just come across with a broken link please mail me (ie. no need to file bugs). Well, as you prefer. Email is simpler to start with but it is indeed useful that you submit bugs. Oherwise the risk of several people reporting same problems via email (and having to answer to each at a time) is higher. We want to improve bugzilla to make it as simple to use as possible. BUGZILLA ENHANCEMENT REQUESTS ARE WELCOME (submit them in bugzilla itself, see below). In the meantime using it is not that difficult, if you know where to go and you don't bother about the non-relevant fields. https://maemo.org/bugzilla/ - registration is needed to avoid spam and to receive updates about your bugs feature requests by email. If you want to submit bugs or feature requests these are the pointers: website (maemo.org, garage, planet, wiki...) https://maemo.org/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=website bugzilla itself is kept in a product apart: https://maemo.org/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=bugzilla Make sure your bug has not been submitted already by someone else. Broad keyword search is easy and generally effective. Don't worry if you end up submitting a dupe, it is always better to be sure. We will deal with that. When you submit a bug you have to consider a few important fields, the rest are just additional: - Product: there is no way to file a bug without a product assigned. The links above have already the product defined. - Component: each product is divided in components, try to file your bug in the most appropriate. - Severity: Blocker and Critical imply bugs that break things badly. Generally Normal or even Minor are ok. Enhancement refers to requests for improvements and new features. - Summary: the most important field, try to be specific and explanatory. - Description: well, no, in fact this is the most important field where you really need to be specific and explanatory, providing the solution whenever possible. Press Commit and you are done. If you compare, the effort once you are used is almost the same as an email but considerably more useful. For you and for the responsible of fixing your bug. Quim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: maemo.org homepage mockup
As you see any elements of the page are not tied to development. Really? Fatal typo. Read many instead of any. :) The proposed maemo.org homepage will have those promos to redirect normal users to Tableteer and ITT, and the Garage block is a sweet kiss for power users. The News block will feature in fact Garage news (we can add more sources here, to be discussed), which are mostly about stuff you can download and try as a (power) user. And the Planet entry is also generally of general interest, not only for developers. Pure developers in this home are called via the central banner (linking to the intro section), the tools/shortcuts bar and the announcements block, featuring new official releases stuff. Quim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
maemo.org homepage mockup
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/447139716/ Feedback appreciated. This homepage needs to be useful first of all to you. Quim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: maemo.org homepage mockup
Hi Ferenc :) This is the maemo.org homepage. Forget about the Developers tab being selected. As you see any elements of the page are not tied to development. Nice. But is this the Developers page only? What will happen to the frontpage of maemo.org? Or we/you/somebody will redesign the whole site again even before it was launched? Quim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: A bit more help?
This is a general question for Nokia. Is the product catalog going to be fixed? Specifically, when I select IT OS 2007, I get everything which makes selecting an OS pretty much mute. Yes, product catalog bugs will be fixed. The one you mention has already been submitted, you can follow the progress there: https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=696group_id= 106atid=457 In fact this catalog will get still a lot of improvement. Part of this improvement is kind of planned (we are getting now into details) and there is room for your feedback. Please file your bugs and feature requests in the Tracker of this Garage project. Thanks! Quim ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: [maemo-users] Feature Suggestion
Agreed. UI guidelines are desirable and practical. We have a clear gap in this area. We can work improving, though. There is a start at http://www.maemo.org/community/hildon_ui.html http://www.maemo.org/community/UI_Style_Guide_Summary_2.0.pdf If you have suggestions on needed content please let us know (if you already did in the past please provide links, thank you). PS: this is a developer topic, please keep it in the developers list - thanks again. -- Quim Gil Maemo team ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
