Re: [maemo-users] Re: New software version with VOIP built in - Soon
On 2/24/06, Michael Wiktowy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Since it would be rare that you would have control of both sides of a wifi connection, do you know if BT supports hopping to a different channel on the fly to try to increase frequency separation? Isn't this just what BT does *anyway*? It changes frequency hundreds (thousands?) of times a second in normal operation, IIRC. Cheers, Jonathan -- Don't anthropomorphize computers. They don't like it. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
[Fwd: Re: [maemo-users] Re: New software version with VOIP built in - Soon]
Title: Best Regards, All, I meant to share this response with the group as well in answer to the question from Klaus. Original Message Subject: Re: [maemo-users] Re: New software version with VOIP built in - Soon Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:08:22 -0500 From: John B. Holmblad [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Televerage International To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Klaus, The PXA 270 supports a memory address bus pinout of 26 bits and a memory data bus of 32 bits and the processor core can be clocked up to 520 mhz. This is one powerful yet space/power efficient processor and it supports Intel SpeedStep power management technology. here is some info on the Intel XScale PXA 270: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1744098,00.asp http://www.intel.com/design/embeddedpca/applicationsprocessors/302302.htm ftp://download.intel.com/design/pca/applicationsprocessors/manuals/28003.pdf ftp://download.intel.com/design/flcomp/applnots/30829001.pdf Best Regards, John Holmblad Televerage International GSEC Gold, GCWN Gold, GGSC-0100, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM (H) 703 620 0672 (M) 703 407 2278 (F) 703 620 5388 primary email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] backup email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www page for texting: www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad text email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi John, Am 21 Feb 2006 um 6:59 hat John B. Holmblad geschrieben: Klaus, I would be interested to learn why Nokia chose the TI OMAP1710 processor. I assume it was because of its integral DSP support as well as support for multiple comms interfaces Maybe, but I don't know. I would like to hear if other PDAs have a 32-bit data bus, or if having a 16 bit data bus ist standard in the PDA market. -Klaus -- Best Regards, Best Regards, John Holmblad Televerage International GSEC Gold, GCWN Gold, GGSC-0100, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM (H) 703 620 0672 (M) 703 407 2278 (F) 703 620 5388 primary email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] backup email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www page for texting: www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad text email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: New software version with VOIP built in - Soon
Hi, On Wed, 2006-02-22 at 13:02 -0500, ext John B. Holmblad wrote: Igor, I think that is one reason why the standard configuration only turns on one radio on the device at a time, although I understand there is a registry hack to surmount that limitation at the expense of higher battery drain. The antenna is shared and wlan can disrupt bt communications. In fact on Communicator phones, for example, you get a warning if you try to use a voip application over wlan with a bt headset. And think of the possibilities. If you could find a way to turn the 802.11 into Access Point mode, you could then offer impromptu WIFI access and bridge users WIFI to the mobile provider's EVDO broadband data service. Of course the mobile providers would not like that and, no doubt, have prohibitions against such muxing in their acceptable use agreements. And for this device, at least, I don't even think they support/allow bridging a single laptop via bluetooth or WIFI, but that may change. Legal reasons apart, there are also technical issues that need to be taken into account. Best Regards, John Holmblad Televerage International GSEC Gold, GCWN Gold, GGSC-0100, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM (H) 703 620 0672 (M) 703 407 2278 (F) 703 620 5388 primary email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] backup email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wwwpage for texting: www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad text email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Igor Stoppa wrote: Hi, On Tue, 2006-02-21 at 06:59 -0500, ext John B. Holmblad wrote: Klaus, I would be interested to learn why Nokia chose the TI OMAP1710 processor. I assume it was because of its integral DSP support as well as support for multiple comms interfaces [clip] Battery , Type: Removable 1350 mAh Lithium-lon What's the uptime of this device? That's a significant parameter to compare ... battery tells about potential but isn't really significant without knowing how it is used. -- Igor Stoppa, Nokia M / Tampere Finland ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: New software version with VOIP built in - Soon
Title: Best Regards, Igor, I think that is one reason why the standard configuration only turns on one radio on the device at a time, although I understand there is a registry hack to surmount that limitation at the expense of higher battery drain. And think of the possibilities. If you could find a way to turn the 802.11 into Access Point mode, you could then offer impromptu WIFI access and bridge users WIFI to the mobile provider's EVDO broadband data service. Of course the mobile providers would not like that and, no doubt, have prohibitions against such muxing in their acceptable use agreements. And for this device, at least, I don't even think they support/allow bridging a single laptop via bluetooth or WIFI, but that may change. Best Regards, John Holmblad Televerage International GSEC Gold, GCWN Gold, GGSC-0100, NSA-IAM, NSA-IEM (H) 703 620 0672 (M) 703 407 2278 (F) 703 620 5388 primary email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] backup email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www page for texting: www.vtext.com/users/jholmblad text email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Igor Stoppa wrote: Hi, On Tue, 2006-02-21 at 06:59 -0500, ext John B. Holmblad wrote: Klaus, I would be interested to learn why Nokia chose the TI OMAP1710 processor. I assume it was because of its integral DSP support as well as support for multiple comms interfaces [clip] Battery , Type: Removable 1350 mAh Lithium-lon What's the uptime of this device? That's a significant parameter to compare ... battery tells about potential but isn't really significant without knowing how it is used. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: New software version with VOIP built in - Soon
ext Clemens Eisserer wrote: I wonder wether this update will cost money and what it'll fix / enhance. If the following points are fullfilled I would even pay a small amount of money for it: * Much higher graphic performance Do you have usecases where the graphics performance is poor? Remember that UI responsiveness does not directly translate as 'graphic performance'. Our X, 'Xomap' uses the Damage extension to update only needed parts (changed window contents) for the screen and after that it's pretty much up to CPU and memory bus to handle it finally to LCD. If the CPU and membus are busy doing something else then copying is slower. * Ogg support in audioplayer * J2ME runtime lg Clemens ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users // Tapani ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: New software version with VOIP built in - Soon
Hi Tapani, Do you have usecases where the graphics performance is poor? Remember that UI responsiveness does not directly translate as 'graphic performance'. Our X, 'Xomap' uses the Damage extension to update only needed parts (changed window contents) for the screen and after that it's pretty much up to CPU and memory bus to handle it finally to LCD. If the CPU and membus are busy doing something else then copying is slower. Yes I ment UI responsivness, not raw graphic performance. The whole UI simply feels a bit sluggish compared to Palms or Pocket-PCs, I know they have faster CPUs but i also think their software simply is more efficient. The following problems a bit bother me: * Slow application menu performance - you can watch how it comes up and dissapears and how the background of apps is painted new when it dissapears. If you just move the pen up and down on the open menu you see the selection lagging 1-2 entries behind the pen. * Slow dialog-creating time, no matter where you click - any action that opens a new window creates a noticeable delay. * Scrolling operations are slow, no matter wether tables, lists or whatever are scrolled :-/ * Switching between apps takes 200-500ms, when closing dialogs you can watch the main-window redraw itself. Again, these small glitches are no real problems, but it just bothers a bit that you've to wait almost everywhere you click. Any gui-related operation happens with some delay. lg Clemens ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
UI speed Re: [maemo-users] Re: New software version with VOIP built in - Soon
Clemens Eisserer wrote: * Slow application menu performance - you can watch how it comes up and dissapears and how the background of apps is painted new when it dissapears. If you just move the pen up and down on the open menu you see the selection lagging 1-2 entries behind the pen. I wonder if all this is because of theming in general or specific (default) theme used? The menu has nice border made of few lines maybe theming code draws them one by one? Maybe some simple theme without all the fancy eye candy can be substantively faster? Or maybe not, who knows. I too find the UI responsiveness a bit slow. And application startup is a bit slow too. Even older iPAQ 3870 with OPIE was faster (and it was slow too comparing to Palm). 2 seconds for Calculator to start on N770 is not exactly fast. Is it GTK or dynamic linker or dbus or launcher? Frantisek ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: UI speed Re: [maemo-users] Re: New software version with VOIP built in - Soon
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Frantisek Dufka wrote: Clemens Eisserer wrote: * Slow application menu performance - you can watch how it comes up and dissapears and how the background of apps is painted new when it dissapears. If you just move the pen up and down on the open menu you see the selection lagging 1-2 entries behind the pen. I wonder if all this is because of theming in general or specific (default) theme used? The menu has nice border made of few lines maybe theming code draws them one by one? Maybe some simple theme without all the fancy eye candy can be substantively faster? Or maybe not, who knows. I too find the UI responsiveness a bit slow. And application startup is a bit slow too. Even older iPAQ 3870 with OPIE was faster (and it was slow too comparing to Palm). 2 seconds for Calculator to start on N770 is not exactly fast. Is it GTK or dynamic linker or dbus or launcher? GPE (dynamically linked GTK+) on the 770 is loads faster than maemo, so my guess is that something higher up the stack (hildon stuff) is to blame. regards, Koen -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFD+bHQMkyGM64RGpERAlCOAJ0ZY6Lq/o/HlxfMWvwLaKeen9m4oACeKkd6 Jh6ONt+WJfuEN2SdzesWw18= =9bIQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: New software version with VOIP built in - Soon
ext [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am 20 Feb 2006 um 11:08 hat Clemens Eisserer geschrieben: Yes I ment UI responsivness, not raw graphic performance. The whole UI simply feels a bit sluggish compared to Palms or Pocket-PCs, I know they have faster CPUs but i also think their software simply is more efficient. I don't think that there will be a huge speed improvement. Why? 1) The N770 has just a 16-bit data bus but it has to draw the whole GUI to a 800x480 16 bit pixel memory buffer. This is much more than the 320x320 pixels on a palm! This is a good point. 2) As far as I understand the OMAP doc, the LCD redraw had also be done using the 16-bit memory data path. If its done at 60 Hz (I don't know), there is a constant memory dma at 800x480x60 = 21,97 MWords/sec blocking the bus. In fact the OMAP has a shared memory design! Fortunately memorybus is not utilized for graphics all the time. We have a separate LCD controller chip which takes care of refreshing the LCD screen. Memorybus is used when we transfer data from framebuffer in system memory to framebuffer in LCD controller chip (when something needs to be updated). 4) The memory design: The N770 is more or less just a Linux device and uses a lot of libraries. Most of the libs are designed for a linux desktop machine, where memory is (because of swap) not a problem. This is maybe the biggest problem for Linux based PDAs! Actually, memory *is* a problem in the 'desktop world' aswell, especially with laptops ... swap should not be considered as 'solution' because disk IO is slow. Application developers should just wake up and fix the issues there. I hope that some of Maemo efforts in memory saving will make their way there. It would be interessting, how a 128 MB RAM N770 would perform. I think 128 MB-DDR-RAM is the limit for the build in OMAP processor. Don't get me wrong: I like the N770 (especially the bright display!), and I even don't think that it is too slow. I compare it with my Sharp Zaurus and most times the N770 wins. The 800 pixel display is a huge plus working with gnumeric. Please correct my if there are some facts wrong, I *really* would like to hear that! I got most of this reading the OMAP5912 Design Overview, which should be similar to the OMAP1710 used in the N770 device. CU, -Klaus // Tapani ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
[maemo-users] Re: New software version with VOIP built in - Soon
I wonder wether this update will cost money and what it'll fix / enhance. If the following points are fullfilled I would even pay a small amount of money for it: * Much higher graphic performance * Ogg support in audioplayer * J2ME runtime lg Clemens ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: [maemo-users] Re: New software version with VOIP built in - Soon
On 2/19/06, Clemens Eisserer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder wether this update will cost money and what it'll fix / enhance. Me2. I hope it does address some of the problems that stop me recommending this potentially /brilliant/ devce to non-techies. If the following points are fullfilled I would even pay a small amount of money for it: I *seriously* disagree with that sentiment. Great though the device is, we're all effectively beta-testing the software at present. The regular (but not too /frequent/) reboots attest to that. * Much higher graphic performance Should come as standard. * Ogg support in audioplayer Should come as standard. * J2ME runtime Hmm. Don't know about this. Could be implemented as an additional download for the more advanced consumer, perhaps. Cheers, Jonathan -- Don't anthropomorphize computers. They don't like it. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
