Re: N810 with GSM radio
John Holmblad wrote: Having said that, and, given that there is a WIMAX version of the N810 I don't see an inherent technical or cost reason why there could not also be a version with a 2g/3g radio (GSM/HSDPA, or CDMA/EVDO) as well. I suspect it would be GSM/HSDPA based, as this is what we use in Europe. I'm not even sure if any carriers in the UK support EVDO? Probably, but no one talks about it. M ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 with GSM radio
On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Matt Emson mem...@interalpha.co.uk wrote: John Holmblad wrote: Having said that, and, given that there is a WIMAX version of the N810 I don't see an inherent technical or cost reason why there could not also be a version with a 2g/3g radio (GSM/HSDPA, or CDMA/EVDO) as well. I suspect it would be GSM/HSDPA based, as this is what we use in Europe. I'm not even sure if any carriers in the UK support EVDO? Probably, but no one talks about it. I can only speak about LatAm. Down here in Argentina, all carriers switched to GSM long ago. There's no one still selling CDMA based networks. 3G afaik is HSDPA in the 1900 Mhz band. FC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 with GSM radio
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Brad Midgley bmidg...@gmail.com wrote: Nokia has several operating systems, product lines, feature sets, etc. One unfortunate explanation might simply be that the the maemo project was told they could not tread on the turf of another unit at Nokia. In my experience watching multinationals for over a decade, I can assume this is likely the case. I have watched internal politics and turf wars kill too many products at IBM, Sun, and others FC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 with GSM radio
Jonathan, in fact, given the ease with which the N800N810 can be tethered to an EVDO or HSDPA capable mobile handset, my own biggest complaint has been with my electron guzzling mobile phone which lasts all of ~20 minutes when running with the EVDO turned on and tethered to the N810. Clearly it would be better to carry only one piece of electronics vs two but, if I can solve this power consumption problem by upgrading to a new mobile handset I will be satisfied with a 2 device solution. Maybe there is a market for a fairly simple layer 1 pocket device (evdo/hsdpa/LTE/WIMAX modem + a big battery) that also supports bluetooth for tethering to whatever smart device the user has on hand. Best Regards, John Holmblad Acadia Secure Networks, LLC * * Jonathan Greene wrote: There's certainly been debate on the topic as some people prefer the option rather than being forced to have it but I would love it. An always-on pocket computer is exactly what I want ... and have wanted for a long time. On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:13 PM, fcassia fcas...@gmail.com mailto:fcas...@gmail.com wrote: I can't believe Nokia is so dumb. The software stack in the N800 / N810 is stable, proven, and time-tested. So why can't they release a N810 with embedded GSM/EDGE radio? All that is needed is a phone dialer applet. Of course, a premium version could add 3G, but for me to check GMail on the go, EDGE is just fine. Thoughts? Comments? Expletives? FC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org mailto:maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - jonathangre...@gmail.com mailto:jonathangre...@gmail.com Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 with GSM radio
On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 07:38:47AM -0200, fcassia wrote: On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Matt Emson mem...@interalpha.co.uk wrote: John Holmblad wrote: Having said that, and, given that there is a WIMAX version of the N810 I don't see an inherent technical or cost reason why there could not also be a version with a 2g/3g radio (GSM/HSDPA, or CDMA/EVDO) as well. I suspect it would be GSM/HSDPA based, as this is what we use in Europe. I'm not even sure if any carriers in the UK support EVDO? Probably, but no one talks about it. I can only speak about LatAm. Down here in Argentina, all carriers switched to GSM long ago. There's no one still selling CDMA based networks. 3G afaik is HSDPA in the 1900 Mhz band. 3G is UMTS (or WCDMA); HSDPA is sometimes called 3.5G. When I heard that 3G uses different frequencies in different countries, and that not all 3G phones support all frequencies, I was rather disappointed. Marius Gedminas -- If something has not yet gone wrong then it would ultimately have been beneficial for it to go wrong. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 with GSM radio
response below ... On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Marius Gedminas mar...@pov.lt wrote: On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 07:38:47AM -0200, fcassia wrote: On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Matt Emson mem...@interalpha.co.uk wrote: John Holmblad wrote: Having said that, and, given that there is a WIMAX version of the N810 I don't see an inherent technical or cost reason why there could not also be a version with a 2g/3g radio (GSM/HSDPA, or CDMA/EVDO) as well. I suspect it would be GSM/HSDPA based, as this is what we use in Europe. I'm not even sure if any carriers in the UK support EVDO? Probably, but no one talks about it. I can only speak about LatAm. Down here in Argentina, all carriers switched to GSM long ago. There's no one still selling CDMA based networks. 3G afaik is HSDPA in the 1900 Mhz band. 3G is UMTS (or WCDMA); HSDPA is sometimes called 3.5G. When I heard that 3G uses different frequencies in different countries, and that not all 3G phones support all frequencies, I was rather disappointed. Marius Gedminas Unfortunately the bands supported is a country thing more than a manufacturer and it's how the FCC equivalent decides to offer spectrum. I believe the reason the US does not have 2100 band open to public communications is due to some government / military issue. -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - jonathangre...@gmail.com Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 with GSM radio
Marius Gedminas wrote: 3G is UMTS (or WCDMA); HSDPA is sometimes called 3.5G. In the UK, O2 only use HSDPA for their 3G service, apparently. When you buy an iPhone with them, they mumble about their 3G actually being rated faster than normal 3G and make excuses about the naming convention being tied to the iPhone not having a different icon for HSDPA.. It's fast though. Very fast. When I heard that 3G uses different frequencies in different countries, and that not all 3G phones support all frequencies, I was rather disappointed. This has nothing to do with the phones or manufacturers. Countries assign different parts of the spectrum to different uses. You can't dictate to the world that a specific frequency is universal, because *someone* will be using it *somewhere*. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 with GSM radio
I'm definitely in the minority in looking to have multiple things rather than a single device which would do it all. there are routers you can buy (MiFi - http://jkontherun.com/2008/12/09/novatel-mifi-c/) though I want the radio in the unit. Depending on the second device for connectivity just drains two batteries On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 8:53 AM, John Holmblad jholmb...@acadiasecurenets.com wrote: Jonathan, in fact, given the ease with which the N800N810 can be tethered to an EVDO or HSDPA capable mobile handset, my own biggest complaint has been with my electron guzzling mobile phone which lasts all of ~20 minutes when running with the EVDO turned on and tethered to the N810. Clearly it would be better to carry only one piece of electronics vs two but, if I can solve this power consumption problem by upgrading to a new mobile handset I will be satisfied with a 2 device solution. Maybe there is a market for a fairly simple layer 1 pocket device (evdo/hsdpa/LTE/WIMAX modem + a big battery) that also supports bluetooth for tethering to whatever smart device the user has on hand. Best Regards, John Holmblad Acadia Secure Networks, LLC * * Jonathan Greene wrote: There's certainly been debate on the topic as some people prefer the option rather than being forced to have it but I would love it. An always-on pocket computer is exactly what I want ... and have wanted for a long time. On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:13 PM, fcassia fcas...@gmail.com mailto: fcas...@gmail.com wrote: I can't believe Nokia is so dumb. The software stack in the N800 / N810 is stable, proven, and time-tested. So why can't they release a N810 with embedded GSM/EDGE radio? All that is needed is a phone dialer applet. Of course, a premium version could add 3G, but for me to check GMail on the go, EDGE is just fine. Thoughts? Comments? Expletives? FC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org mailto:maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - jonathangre...@gmail.com mailto: jonathangre...@gmail.com Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - jonathangre...@gmail.com Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 with GSM radio
beating dead horsePutting in an 802.16e compatible chipset makes the most sense for the tablet's target market. What the original poster is arguing for is that Nokia should be using the maemo platform as a smart phone platform a la Android, the stripped down ARM port of OS X used in the iPhone, Symbian, etc. It would also be equivalent to suggesting net book manufacturers ought to start adding phone capabilities to their OS and hardware. I'm happy with tethering since it doesn't require upgrading my tablet hardware every time I want to upgrade my phone or switch providers./beating dead horse -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
N810 with GSM radio
I can't believe Nokia is so dumb. The software stack in the N800 / N810 is stable, proven, and time-tested. So why can't they release a N810 with embedded GSM/EDGE radio? All that is needed is a phone dialer applet. Of course, a premium version could add 3G, but for me to check GMail on the go, EDGE is just fine. Thoughts? Comments? Expletives? FC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 with GSM radio
There's certainly been debate on the topic as some people prefer the option rather than being forced to have it but I would love it. An always-on pocket computer is exactly what I want ... and have wanted for a long time. On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:13 PM, fcassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: I can't believe Nokia is so dumb. The software stack in the N800 / N810 is stable, proven, and time-tested. So why can't they release a N810 with embedded GSM/EDGE radio? All that is needed is a phone dialer applet. Of course, a premium version could add 3G, but for me to check GMail on the go, EDGE is just fine. Thoughts? Comments? Expletives? FC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - jonathangre...@gmail.com Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 with GSM radio
It would make the device far too expensive for its market. The cogs on the radio device would add to the base cost. There would be different European and American model -- each market uses different frequencies for GSM/EDGE. That homologation for manufacturing would add additional costs. The repair depot logistics would change as well. There would be real FCC (and the equivalents) regulatory requirements to be met. Worse, you would need to purchase service from a mobile phone provider. At that point the cost increases would push customers to an iPhone or similar smart phone. IMO, the best advantage that the tablets have is being free of the entanglement mobile phone service providers. -- =W On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:13 PM, fcassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: I can't believe Nokia is so dumb. The software stack in the N800 / N810 is stable, proven, and time-tested. So why can't they release a N810 with embedded GSM/EDGE radio? All that is needed is a phone dialer applet. Of course, a premium version could add 3G, but for me to check GMail on the go, EDGE is just fine. Thoughts? Comments? Expletives? FC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 with GSM radio
well - Nokia is definitely starting to roll out tri-band hsdpa devices which makes this much easier to deal with. I'm still excited by the idea of a 3G capable tablet. On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Wayne Fiori dev9n...@gmail.com wrote: It would make the device far too expensive for its market. The cogs on the radio device would add to the base cost. There would be different European and American model -- each market uses different frequencies for GSM/EDGE. That homologation for manufacturing would add additional costs. The repair depot logistics would change as well. There would be real FCC (and the equivalents) regulatory requirements to be met. Worse, you would need to purchase service from a mobile phone provider. At that point the cost increases would push customers to an iPhone or similar smart phone. IMO, the best advantage that the tablets have is being free of the entanglement mobile phone service providers. -- =W On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:13 PM, fcassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: I can't believe Nokia is so dumb. The software stack in the N800 / N810 is stable, proven, and time-tested. So why can't they release a N810 with embedded GSM/EDGE radio? All that is needed is a phone dialer applet. Of course, a premium version could add 3G, but for me to check GMail on the go, EDGE is just fine. Thoughts? Comments? Expletives? FC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Jonathan Greene +1.914.750.8740 AIM / iChat - atmasphere gtalk / jabber - jonathangre...@gmail.com Skype / Gizmo - JonathanGreene blogs - http://www.atmasphere.net/wp / http://www.maemoapps.com ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 with GSM radio
Thoughts? Comments? Expletives? W/ bluetooth tethering and the WiMax addition, it is obvious to me that Nokia is attempting to get there. And by there - an always connected web tablet. The next device will likely have the space for 3G. The thing to recognize is that at least in the US, it is a lot harder then just being 3G enabled. The strangle hold that the carriers have on the network adds to the problem. Look at the WiMax rollout, only two cities really have service. So the N810 WiMax edition is pretty much exactly the same as the N810. E -- Erik Hovland e...@hovland.org http://hovland.org/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 with GSM radio
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:23:04PM -0800, Wayne Fiori wrote: It would make the device far too expensive for its market. The cogs on the radio device would add to the base cost. There would be different European and American model -- each market uses different frequencies for GSM/EDGE. I suppose you could probably find a chipset that doesn't do all four GSM frequency bands, but that would be silly. For some reason, five-band WCDMA doesn't seem to be as common as it should be, but 850/1900/2100 is common enough. Leaves T-Mobile US out in the cold, but their fault for picking a weird place to put their UMTS. -- Brad Ackerman b...@facefault.org ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 with GSM radio
Wayne, thanks for reminding me of a word, homologation, that I have not used for a long time. Having said that, and, given that there is a WIMAX version of the N810 I don't see an inherent technical or cost reason why there could not also be a version with a 2g/3g radio (GSM/HSDPA, or CDMA/EVDO) as well. I am disappointed that Clear (the Sprint/Clearwire/Others WIMAX venture) appears to be slowing down its US rollout strategy for its WIMAX based service offering. I was hoping that the Nokia N810 WIMAX edition could find a place in this market as a multiuse (voice + data device) before the arrival of LTE based 4g solutions from Verizon Wireless and others. Intel's write-down of its 1b+ investment in Clear. announced this week, driven by macroeconomic market conditions (everything is down), as opposed to diminished expectations of the Intel management team for future returns from Clear, does not help market perceptions of WIMAX and associated products and services. 1. http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp?doc_id=170164f_src=unstrung_section_86 Best Regards, John Holmblad Acadia Secure Networks, LLC * * Wayne Fiori wrote: It would make the device far too expensive for its market. The cogs on the radio device would add to the base cost. There would be different European and American model -- each market uses different frequencies for GSM/EDGE. That homologation for manufacturing would add additional costs. The repair depot logistics would change as well. There would be real FCC (and the equivalents) regulatory requirements to be met. Worse, you would need to purchase service from a mobile phone provider. At that point the cost increases would push customers to an iPhone or similar smart phone. IMO, the best advantage that the tablets have is being free of the entanglement mobile phone service providers. -- =W On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:13 PM, fcassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: I can't believe Nokia is so dumb. The software stack in the N800 / N810 is stable, proven, and time-tested. So why can't they release a N810 with embedded GSM/EDGE radio? All that is needed is a phone dialer applet. Of course, a premium version could add 3G, but for me to check GMail on the go, EDGE is just fine. Thoughts? Comments? Expletives? FC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 with GSM radio
FC So why can't they release a N810 with embedded GSM/EDGE radio? All that is needed is a phone dialer applet. Thoughts? Comments? Expletives? It's often suggested it would be too costly or logistically difficult, but there are smaller companies that are at least trying something similar. There were a few atom-based machines being shown off at CES that will ship with 3g. One looked just like a fat n810 only with some terrible in-house OS. Nokia should be equipped to deal with logistics better than little fly-by-night operations like that. Nokia has several operating systems, product lines, feature sets, etc. One unfortunate explanation might simply be that the the maemo project was told they could not tread on the turf of another unit at Nokia. One real complication is some of the 3g networks in the US ostensibly don't allow VOIP on their network. For Nokia to remain on good terms with providers it probably isn't in their interest to make it easy to break the terms of service of your network provider. There was a booth for the Clear venture at CES. They had an impressive map showing near-complete coverage of the US. Closer inspection shows they were demonstrating coverage areas of the partners in Clear, including any network type. An actual WiMAX coverage map would have looked pretty dismal. -- Brad Midgley ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N810 with GSM radio
One more aside... as far as I could tell, Nokia was only showing off symbian devices at their CES booth. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
