[Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] How to get the sender id when the list is set to annoymous mode

2005-02-17 Thread Tokio Kikuchi
Hi,
Brad Knowles wrote:
At 3:06 AM -0800 2005-02-15, vijayan p wrote:
 I would like to know if as a administrator, is there a
 way i can get the senders email id for the messages
 posted.

If you have access to the server logs, you can track them by 
message-id.
It should be easy to track the original poster of anonymous list, so I 
added a function to log anonymizing action in post log.

Cheers,
--
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/
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[Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] from field with real name

2005-02-17 Thread Tokio Kikuchi
Hi,
Mark Sapiro wrote:
Stefan Hofmeir wrote:
the sender (from field) of a newsletter list should be the address of
the list (anonymous_list = yes).
previous from field (of the test list mailman):
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
How it is possible to sent also a real name like
From: list ABC [EMAIL PROTECTED] in every newsletter?

You have to hack Mailman/Handlers/Cleanse.py to do this.
It sounded like a reasonablly small and nice hack request so I inserted 
a few steps of code in Cleanse.py. I used internal_name instead of 
real_name though. It was checked in CVS and will be in 2.1.6 soon.

Cheers,
--
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/
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Re: making Mailman CAN-SPAM compliant (was Re:[Mailman-Developers] Hashing member passwords in config.pck)

2005-02-17 Thread Tokio Kikuchi
Hi,
Sorry I'm responding late. We had presentations of master theses and I 
had to look after 3 out of 8 students for qualification. Moreover, 2 
students are Chinese and difficulty in expressing themselves in 
Japanese. (Like myself in English :-( )

Adrian Bye wrote:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq04.039.htp
Yesterday I contributed patches which enables Mailman to have this exact
functionality which we borrowed from Yahoo Groups.  Yet I've seen no response
from you yet, and only one half dismissive response from another mailman
developer.
I looked through your code and my feeling is not integrating this patch 
in 2.1.6. The Decorate.py file was considerably patched in CVS by myself 
and it will take time to adjust the submitted 2.1.5 patch. Also, there 
are some functions copied from other sources not importing nor 
inheriting. And, if you write code for immediate integration in the CVS, 
you should read http://barry.warsaw.us/software/STYLEGUIDE.txt and PEP 
8, or at least read the existing code and learn the style.

Mailman CAN be as good - and better - than Yahoo Groups.  It doesn't have to
take lots of money and resources.  Just being willing to accept our code a piece
at a time, and encouraging those who contribute will go a long way towards
getting there.
There may be some disagreement on the unsubscribe styff, but the header/footer
handling only benefits everyone.  I certainly hope that the mailman team will be
responsive, and accept these patches and integrate them into the codebase.  From
my side we'll do whatever it takes to make that happen.  Just tell us what we
have to do.
I think the patch should be available in the SF tracker and tested by 
users who want the functionality. Number of unofficial patches are 
living like this. It took two years for my first patch (subject prefix 
numbering) to be integrated in the CVS. ;-)

--
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/
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Re: making Mailman CAN-SPAM compliant (was Re:[Mailman-Developers] Hashing member passwords in config.pck)

2005-02-17 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Thu, 2005-02-17 at 09:33, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:

 I looked through your code and my feeling is not integrating this patch 
 in 2.1.6.

We need to put a freeze on new features for 2.1.6.  In fact, I think we
should freeze all checkins except show-stopping bug fixes.  I'd like to
take between now and the end of February for testing.

I'll spin a beta4 today and upload it to SF.  In the future, Tokio will
also be able to do SF file releases (although unfortunately, he won't be
able to update the web sites).  I plan on installing the current 2.1.6
on my various sites and I hope others can do the same thing to help test
2.1.6 in order to get an end-of-February release.

-Barry



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Re: making Mailman CAN-SPAM compliant (was Re:[Mailman-Developers] Hashing member passwords in config.pck)

2005-02-17 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Thu, 2005-02-17 at 12:15, Barry Warsaw wrote:

 We need to put a freeze on new features for 2.1.6.  In fact, I think we
 should freeze all checkins except show-stopping bug fixes.  I'd like to
 take between now and the end of February for testing.

Oh yes, and for all i18n champions to finish updating their translations
for this release!

-Barry



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Re: making Mailman CAN-SPAM compliant (was Re:[Mailman-Developers] Hashing member passwords in config.pck)

2005-02-17 Thread Bryan Fullerton
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:15:44 -0500, Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
 I plan on installing the current 2.1.6
 on my various sites and I hope others can do the same thing to help test
 2.1.6 in order to get an end-of-February release.

I'm willing to install the pending beta 4 if it's feature-frozen and
there are no significant known bugs (unknown bugs are OK ;). The
feature shift between betas has been a little disconcerting.

Bryan
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RE: making Mailman CAN-SPAM compliant (was Re:[Mailman-Developers]Hashing member passwords in config.pck)

2005-02-17 Thread Adrian Bye
 We need to put a freeze on new features for 2.1.6.  In fact, 
 I think we should freeze all checkins except show-stopping 
 bug fixes.  I'd like to take between now and the end of 
 February for testing.

And, I just talked with my developer, and he got quite upset about the idea of
fixing his code to conform to your coding style.  So I guess that won't be
possible for now.  I certainly understand why you have coding guidelines, I
agree they are important.  I would have happily paid my developer to bring his
code in line with your standards.

I'm disappointed; we put quite a lot of work in to get this working right, and
the work we've done fits very smoothly into the our mailman installation (from
an administrator perspective).

I've updated the wiki page here:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq04.039.htp

Hopefully someone in the future can see what we've done and implement this
properly for everyone to use.

Adrian

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[Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6b4

2005-02-17 Thread Barry Warsaw
Okay, I've pushed the 2.1.6b4 tarball out to SourceForge (now that file
uploads are working again ;).  I will likely be off-line until Tuesday.

-Barry



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RE: making Mailman CAN-SPAM compliant (was Re:[Mailman-Developers]Hashing member passwords in config.pck)

2005-02-17 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Thu, 2005-02-17 at 13:22, Adrian Bye wrote:

 And, I just talked with my developer, and he got quite upset about the idea of
 fixing his code to conform to your coding style.  So I guess that won't be
 possible for now.  I certainly understand why you have coding guidelines, I
 agree they are important.  I would have happily paid my developer to bring his
 code in line with your standards.

Sorry, but that's non-negotiable.  I know that you understand, but for
the record, I'm not just stroking my ego.  Coding standards are critical
for long term maintenance.  Without a standard, the readability of the
code goes to hell and code is read orders of magnitude more often than
it's written.  Adhering to the guidelines (hobgoblins notwithstanding)
is our responsibility to those that come after us.

It's unfortunate that your developer can't adapt to the Mailman coding
style.  I work on tons of open source software, and of course lots of
software at my job, and each project has its own coding guidelines. 
When in Rome... is the operative phrase here.

Hopefully someone else will adapt the code to the style guide.

-Barry



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[Mailman-Developers] new on list.

2005-02-17 Thread Maat
hi all,
I'm new on this list.
hope i will be able to help (little and very humble patches).
first i'm wondering : the cvs tree @sourceforge seems to be out of 
date... have i smoked something too stong for me or am i right ?

if i'm right where is the true tree please ?
grtx
Pascal
--
Pascal Vilarem [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Alterius non sit qui suus esse potest
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] new on list.

2005-02-17 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Thu, 2005-02-17 at 13:59, Maat wrote:

 first i'm wondering : the cvs tree @sourceforge seems to be out of 
 date... have i smoked something too stong for me or am i right ?

The CVS tree on SF is the canonical tree, but remember that you want to
work on the Release_2_1-maint branch, which is where MM2.1.x is released
from.  The trunk is what may someday be Mailman 2.2, but it is terribly
bitrotted right now.  Tokio has threatened wink to merge the branch
back into the trunk, in preparation for a possible 2.2 release, but
right now, you should consider the trunk unusable.

-Barry



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Re: making Mailman CAN-SPAM compliant (was Re:[Mailman-Developers]Hashing member passwords in config.pck)

2005-02-17 Thread Bob [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Perhaps I missed this thread, but what standards are there?  Link to doc?
Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Thu, 2005-02-17 at 13:22, Adrian Bye wrote:

And, I just talked with my developer, and he got quite upset about the idea of
fixing his code to conform to your coding style.  So I guess that won't be
possible for now.  I certainly understand why you have coding guidelines, I
agree they are important.  I would have happily paid my developer to bring his
code in line with your standards.

Sorry, but that's non-negotiable.  I know that you understand, but for
the record, I'm not just stroking my ego.  Coding standards are critical
for long term maintenance.  Without a standard, the readability of the
code goes to hell and code is read orders of magnitude more often than
it's written.  Adhering to the guidelines (hobgoblins notwithstanding)
is our responsibility to those that come after us.
It's unfortunate that your developer can't adapt to the Mailman coding
style.  I work on tons of open source software, and of course lots of
software at my job, and each project has its own coding guidelines. 
When in Rome... is the operative phrase here.

Hopefully someone else will adapt the code to the style guide.
-Barry


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Re: making Mailman CAN-SPAM compliant (was Re:[Mailman-Developers]Hashing member passwords in config.pck)

2005-02-17 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Thu, 2005-02-17 at 14:54, Bob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Perhaps I missed this thread, but what standards are there?  Link to doc?

http://barry.warsaw.us/software/STYLEGUIDE.txt

-Barry



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Re: making Mailman CAN-SPAM compliant (was Re:[Mailman-Developers] Hashing member passwords in config.pck)

2005-02-17 Thread Tobias Eigen
Dear friends,
I had *no idea* my post was going to generate this level of response. 
Thank you all. I'm simply fascinated by the dynamics in the group, 
inspired by your generosity, and eager to help out in any way I can. 
Let me make a few brief points, then forward another message I just 
sent to another list which is inspired by this discussion and by a 
number of other ongoing threads that seem to be coming together right 
now and make for what I think is a tremendous opportunity for those of 
us interested in this yahoogroups type functionality.

1) I am not a coder. I am very into open source software, though, and 
have been for a long time. I have installed many open source tools on 
the Kabissa server over the years which are used very actively by 
people in Africa working for nonprofits. This includes Mailman, phpbb, 
horde and more. I am able to hack around in existing scripts and follow 
instructions to do limited customization. I've had Mailman running on 
Kabissa for over four years now, and have many thousands of posts in 
list archives and tens of thousands of subscribers participating in 
lists hosted on Kabissa.

2) I am currently dedicated to taking all of these disparate tools that 
people are making great use of on Kabissa, and integrating them into a 
single community Web site so that they can use them better. I am 
therefore interested in Mambo CMS (http://www.mamboserver.com) and am 
eager to encourage any efforts that will enable me to take existing 
Kabissa services (like Mailman) and integrate them into Mambo 
components (existing or new).

3) This is the background to my post about making Mailman CAN-SPAM 
compliant. It helps to know that there are developers interested in 
addressing usability issues and also to have confirmed that there is a 
general understanding that Mailman can be improved.

4) As Brad mentioned, he is now volunteering at Kabissa on mailman 
administration.. which is great! With his involvement, there are some 
small contributions Kabissa can make as relates to helping others to 
make Mailman work well in a plesk/qmail setup like ours, and which I'd 
like to see incorporated in future versions of Plesk. However, I think 
Kabissa may be able to help more by drumming up interest in Mailman, by 
partnering with other likeminded organizations seeking the same 
functionality like Bellanet, and perhaps by raising funds to pay for 
the development of some key features that Kabissa needs particularly 
urgently.

Best wishes,
Tobias
On Feb 17, 2005, at 9:33 AM, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
Hi,
Sorry I'm responding late. We had presentations of master theses and I 
had to look after 3 out of 8 students for qualification. Moreover, 2 
students are Chinese and difficulty in expressing themselves in 
Japanese. (Like myself in English :-( )

Adrian Bye wrote:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=showfile=faq04.039.htp
Yesterday I contributed patches which enables Mailman to have this 
exact
functionality which we borrowed from Yahoo Groups.  Yet I've seen no 
response
from you yet, and only one half dismissive response from another 
mailman
developer.
I looked through your code and my feeling is not integrating this 
patch in 2.1.6. The Decorate.py file was considerably patched in CVS 
by myself and it will take time to adjust the submitted 2.1.5 patch. 
Also, there are some functions copied from other sources not importing 
nor inheriting. And, if you write code for immediate integration in 
the CVS, you should read 
http://barry.warsaw.us/software/STYLEGUIDE.txt and PEP 8, or at least 
read the existing code and learn the style.

Mailman CAN be as good - and better - than Yahoo Groups.  It doesn't 
have to
take lots of money and resources.  Just being willing to accept our 
code a piece
at a time, and encouraging those who contribute will go a long way 
towards
getting there.
There may be some disagreement on the unsubscribe styff, but the 
header/footer
handling only benefits everyone.  I certainly hope that the mailman 
team will be
responsive, and accept these patches and integrate them into the 
codebase.  From
my side we'll do whatever it takes to make that happen.  Just tell us 
what we
have to do.
I think the patch should be available in the SF tracker and tested by 
users who want the functionality. Number of unofficial patches are 
living like this. It took two years for my first patch (subject prefix 
numbering) to be integrated in the CVS. ;-)

--
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

--
Tobias Eigen
Executive Director
Kabissa - Space for Change in Africa
http://www.kabissa.org
* Kabissa's vision is for a socially, economically, politically, and 
environmentally vibrant Africa, supported by a strong network of 
effective civil society organizations. *

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[Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] How to get Sender Id from the Mailing List where the annoymous option is set

2005-02-17 Thread Brad Knowles
At 3:57 AM -0800 2005-02-08, vijayan p wrote:
 Can anyone tell me how to obtain the statistics of
 which member has posted how many messages.
	I think you'd have to look at the incoming messages in the MTA 
logs, before they get handed off to Mailman.  But keep in mind that 
Mailman does not have any facility for creating or monitoring 
statistics, unless you want to create a script to do that.

 Also is there a way to know who has posted a
 particular mail.
Basically the same issue.
--
Brad Knowles, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
  SAGE member since 1995.  See http://www.sage.org/ for more info.
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[Mailman-Developers] Fwd: [NOSI discussion] Same planet, different worlds

2005-02-17 Thread Tobias Eigen
As promised - a message I posted this morning to the Nonprofit Open  
Source Initiative discussion list (see http://www.nosi.net for details  
on NOSI). Let me know, perhaps off-list if this discussion is starting  
to seem a bit off-topic, if you are interested in getting involved in  
this.

Check out http://www.penguinday.org for info about Penguin Day, which  
is taking place this year a day after the Nonprofit Technology  
Conference (http://www.nten.org/ntc). I will be at both events and look  
forward to opportunities to talk to people about Mailman usability and  
replicating Yahoogroups-like functionality using open source.

Best wishes,
Tobias
--
Tobias Eigen
Executive Director
Kabissa - Space for Change in Africa
http://www.kabissa.org
* Kabissa's vision is for a socially, economically, politically, and  
environmentally vibrant Africa, supported by a strong network of  
effective civil society organizations. *

Begin forwarded message:
From: Tobias Eigen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: February 17, 2005 11:51:45 AM EST
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [NOSI discussion]  Same planet, different worlds
On a related note, how many of you will be at NTC next month and the  
associated Penguin Day Chicago on the following Saturday?
Ah! So that's when it's going to be! I've been waiting for news via  
penguinday.org... now I can book my flight!

Anyone got something really profound or eye-poppingly cool that you  
want to demo, discuss, or proclaim at PD?
For Kabissa, I've been tracking and actively participating in lots of  
discussions about yahoogroups and replicating the best aspects of it  
using open source. I would be really interested in taking advantage of  
Penguin Day to raise awareness of the need for this and to generate  
momentum to raise funds, find partners and recruit developers to work  
on it.

While alot of great work is being done on open source list managers  
and on discussion forums/web collaboration tools, there is not much  
progress being made on bringing the two together in an open source  
project that can be replicated and made broadly useful by many  
organizations. It's happening, but piecemeal and in the meantime it's  
a shame to subject ordinary people to Mailman's web interfaces (try  
accessing the private archives for the NOSI discussion list and you'll  
see what I'm talking about) and to not properly take advantage of the  
dynamic and empowering effect of connecting people through their  
mailboxes as well as through a beautiful community Web site. For  
Kabissa it's incredibly important because the people in Africa we  
serve pay dearly for their Internet connection and we want to empower  
them to make the most of their limited time oline.

Now there seems to be a particularly grand opportunity because a bunch  
of things are coming together at the same time:

1) Mambo was awarded a Product Excellence Award at LinuxWorld this  
week (http://www.mamboserver.com) - one of the things that makes Mambo  
excellent is that it can be easily extended using optional components,  
and it's easy to create and share components
2) Opendgroups is being developed to share the functionality of the  
already successful dgroups.org service using open source (see  
http://www.opendgroups.net). One of the models being considered is a  
Mailman/Drupal integration.
3) Mailman developers are recognizing the need for making its web  
interfaces more usable (see  
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ 
msg08628.html and subsequent onslaught of messages).
4) Mail2forum, a phpbb add-on that provides bidirectional email/list  
support, is now at v1.0 RC2. (http://www.mail2forum.com) - m2f  
developers claim it can be easily ported to other forums and welcome a  
project team to port it to another forum that integrates better with  
Mambo (see http://www.mail2forum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=796).
5) Alot of reputable, open source friendly web developers are using  
Mambo - i.e. Sangonet in South Africa (http://www.sn.apc.org) and  
Picnet (http://www.picnet.net - also will be at NTC). Picnet is  
interested in developing a CAN-SPAM act compliant Mambo newsletter  
component (http://www.picnet.net). This could complement an integrated  
forum component nicely and share code with it to interact with a list  
manager like Mailman.
6) Kabissa's interest in all of this is that we want to deepen the  
impact of our programs by integrating and improving our existing  
online offerings through the development of a new integrated Web site.  
We have 850 member organizations throughout Africa that are seeking to  
make better use of ICT for the benefit of their communities, and many  
of them are hosting their Web sites and domain names on Kabissa,  
participating in our Time To Get Online training program, and finding  
each other online through our member contact directory, bulletin board  
and mailing lists. Having bidirectional functionality for newsletters  
and discussion 

[Mailman-Developers] SMTPDeliver.py still can't do MTA VERP?

2005-02-17 Thread Dan Mick
a long long *long* time ago now, I made a small hack to SMTPDeliver.py 
to add options to the sendmail connection EHLO, to enable VERP 
generation in the MTA (so that the sending system didn't have to send N 
messages to the MTA to accomplish VERP, but rather let the MTA deal with 
it).  For Postfix, this is as simple as adding the XVERP option.

I still don't see any facility for doing this in a generic way; has 
anyone addressed the problem, and if so can someone point me at the 
solution?..

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