Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Pierre-Yves Chibon  wrote:

> For the record, the current version of HyperKitty has moved from a
> notmuch backend to a mongo database allowing a much more flexible data
> storage scheme.

Good to know!  Is the source available?
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code: Integration of Search Code

[Shayan Md]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Shayan Md  wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:05 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull  >wrote:
>
> >> And (2) search and retrieval may
> >> do a *lot* of message access, for example if you want to do data
> >> mining (see Ana from Spain's thread).
>
> > Isn't it the purpose of index?
>
> Yes, of course, but possibly it's not good enough.  Yes, when you know
> what "features" (eg, author)  you want to index.  Then you can use an
> online algorithm, indexing messages as they come in.  However, many
> data mining methods are adaptive, meaning that they discover features
> of the corpus over time (eg, through "Bayesian" algorithms) and then
> wish to go back and reindex or cross-reference previously examined
> messages based on more accurate feature specifications.
>
> As I say, if that's not your purpose, then you don't have to worry
> about it.  But in some cases it will matter (eg, pretend you're
> Google, not just a GSoC student!)
>

Okay then, can you please tell me how we can put this search code in best
use of mailman3? I have a proposal to write, I am getting unsure of things
day by day. Can you also tell me who is the mentor of this project?

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC

[Pierre-Yves Chibon]

On Thu, 2012-03-29 at 10:49 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>   Hyperkitty is the demo that
> a few people have been working on, including Toshio at the sprints,
> but there are others in play (eg, recent posts to this list).  Also,
> Hyperkitty is currently based on somewhat limited technology (the
> notmuch indexer).  I'm not sure it would be up to the demands of
> data-mining.  Of course, if Toshio says it is, listen to him, not me.
> :-) 

For the record, the current version of HyperKitty has moved from a
notmuch backend to a mongo database allowing a much more flexible data
storage scheme. This is the one you can see online at:
http://mm3test.fedoraproject.org/
The demo is getting more and more complete with month view, recent
activities, thread view, basic search functions and categories.
My only problem is that we seem to have some memory leaks at the
moment :-/

Pierre
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code: Integration of Search Code

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Shayan Md  wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:05 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull 
> wrote:

>> And (2) search and retrieval may
>> do a *lot* of message access, for example if you want to do data
>> mining (see Ana from Spain's thread).

> Isn't it the purpose of index?

Yes, of course, but possibly it's not good enough.  Yes, when you know
what "features" (eg, author)  you want to index.  Then you can use an
online algorithm, indexing messages as they come in.  However, many
data mining methods are adaptive, meaning that they discover features
of the corpus over time (eg, through "Bayesian" algorithms) and then
wish to go back and reindex or cross-reference previously examined
messages based on more accurate feature specifications.

As I say, if that's not your purpose, then you don't have to worry
about it.  But in some cases it will matter (eg, pretend you're
Google, not just a GSoC student!)
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code: Integration of Search Code

[Shayan Md]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:05 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 3:55 AM, Shayan Md  wrote:
>
> > Assuming that we have something like this(object-ID-addressable, If I am
> > not wrong, mailman3 made it possible but not yet implemented as it's part
> > of archiver), is it over ambitious to plan to implement indexer/searcher
> > for mailman3 and a REST API to use this searcher, extend client to use
> this
> > api,
> > and django search form along with this client api? All this independent
> of
> > archiver. Because the only part common with archiver is message retrieval
> > part,
> > If we implement whole searcher, and rest of the client code, later when
> > archiver is implemented message retrieval code can used in searcher. When
> > archiver is completely mature may we can even merge them together. Is it
> > possible? Or this plan has any 'non-sense' parts?
>
> Hi, Shayan.  It's not nonsense, but (1) how do you propose to test if
> you have no archives to run it on?  And (2) search and retrieval may
> do a *lot* of message access, for example if you want to do data
> mining (see Ana from Spain's thread).  In that case, you may find that
> maildir imposes too many stats, which are very expensive on some
> platforms (and not cheap on any that I know of) and mbox requires too
> large memory.  So for some purposes a summary/index/search engine may
> want an optimized message store.
>
Isn't it the purpose of index? I mean, when we search for something we
don't have stat all the messages, search the index return the best matching
message IDs. If you wish to see the message then retrieve it(may be through
archiver). Probably we can index messages through cron every night.

>
> Those may not be your purposes, of course, in which case a simple mbox
> accessor and a download of a couple of mboxes from any public Mailman
> list will give you test fodder.
>
> Testing itself is not really a matter of personal preference.
> Although Mailman is not a 100% test-driven shop, Mailman 3 already has
> a *lot* of tests and Barry would like to see any new modules covered,
> I'm sure.  Also, this area is fraught with pitfalls for the developer.
>  See this thread, for example:
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel/131395/focus=131406.
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code: Integration of Search Code

[Barry Warsaw]

On Mar 30, 2012, at 02:18 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>> I suspect that there will be plenty of mailing lists that get fed messages
>> from programs, e.g. think vcs -commit diff lists.  Those programs can also
>> be buggy, but again I'd prefer that Mailman not compromise on this issue
>> for their sake.
>
>I predict you will eventually lose on this.  That's not an argument
>for changing, of course. :-)

Possibly, but let's go down fighting. :)

>> The point being that messages that flow through Mailman will have that hash
>> in the message URLs in the Archived-At header and possibly in the decorated
>> footers.  An archiver should certainly provide an interface to look up a
>> message by pure Message-ID or the hash.  The hash is just a scheme to
>> regularize the message id and is a tiny fraction more user-friendly
>> (because of its limited alphabet and manageable, known-in-advance length).
>
>I would say that's actually quite significant, because the trash that
>I've observed in message-ids is varied, to be polite.  It will be nice
>to be able to avoid URL-escaping, RFC 2047 soft line breaks, and all
>the rest.

Exactly!

-Barry
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code: Integration of Search Code

[Jeff Breidenbach]

> An archiver should certainly provide an interface to look up a message by 
> [...] the hash.

Including List-Id in the hash calculation allows the archiver to
display a cross
posted message in context. See http://www.mail-archive.com/faq.html#listserver

Also,  a gentle reminder that I put some comments in the Launchpad entry
for IMailingList.archive*

Jeff
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] any interest in a new built-in web-archive? (i.e. pipermail replacement)

[Pierre-Yves Chibon]

On Mon, 2012-03-26 at 17:11 -0700, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> Grackle is another archiver for mailman that doesn't
> have the UI bells and whistles of hyperkitty but it does make an
> effort to expose a REST UI to the world.  I think that's a beautiful
> thing.  

I started a small thing on hyperkitty there:
http://mm3test.fedoraproject.org/api/

Pierre
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code: Integration of Search Code

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 3:55 AM, Shayan Md  wrote:

> Assuming that we have something like this(object-ID-addressable, If I am
> not wrong, mailman3 made it possible but not yet implemented as it's part
> of archiver), is it over ambitious to plan to implement indexer/searcher
> for mailman3 and a REST API to use this searcher, extend client to use this
> api,
> and django search form along with this client api? All this independent of
> archiver. Because the only part common with archiver is message retrieval
> part,
> If we implement whole searcher, and rest of the client code, later when
> archiver is implemented message retrieval code can used in searcher. When
> archiver is completely mature may we can even merge them together. Is it
> possible? Or this plan has any 'non-sense' parts?

Hi, Shayan.  It's not nonsense, but (1) how do you propose to test if
you have no archives to run it on?  And (2) search and retrieval may
do a *lot* of message access, for example if you want to do data
mining (see Ana from Spain's thread).  In that case, you may find that
maildir imposes too many stats, which are very expensive on some
platforms (and not cheap on any that I know of) and mbox requires too
large memory.  So for some purposes a summary/index/search engine may
want an optimized message store.

Those may not be your purposes, of course, in which case a simple mbox
accessor and a download of a couple of mboxes from any public Mailman
list will give you test fodder.

Testing itself is not really a matter of personal preference.
Although Mailman is not a 100% test-driven shop, Mailman 3 already has
a *lot* of tests and Barry would like to see any new modules covered,
I'm sure.  Also, this area is fraught with pitfalls for the developer.
 See this thread, for example:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel/131395/focus=131406.
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman / archive-ui / licensing questions

[David Jeske]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> I would say you should try to retain copyright, and have the Mailman
> project distribute it with the S-BSD license under the "mere
> aggregation" clause of the GPL.


This agrees with my view of the situation as well. Which leads to the
question, is the above approach interesting/viable for Mailman-team?
(assuming the code does something awesome that people want)

That's not the way copyright works, though.  It certainly is possible
> to assert GPL (or any other) restrictions on given *copies* of
> permissively-licensed code.


What they mean is that it is Borg-able.  You can assimilate S-BSD
> code into a GPL project, and that copy is distributed under the GPL.
>

My response here is just academic license-logic evaluation for
entertainment purposes...

I know you can "claim" to assert GPL restrictions on copies of S-BSD
code. I just don't understand how it could ever be enforced.

Any changes made post "assimilation" would be in a state of confusion WRT
GPL-restrictability. Even FSF-copyright assignment for those changes isn't
sufficient to prove that the initial developer never gave a less-restricted
version of his changes out directly to the S-BSD pre-assimilation project
under their license. You're back to requiring afadavits from all authors
stating they never did so, or perhaps challenging projects to produce
checkin-logs to show who saw the change first.

...the thought experiment is merely academic though. I don't want my code
in the hands of folks that can even "claim" to restrict it with the GPL..
which means FSF-assignment is not something I'm willing to do for my stuff.
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code: Integration of Search Code

[Shayan Md]

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 6:59 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 4:21 AM, Terri Oda  wrote:
>
> >> Looks like archiver for mm3 is still in development stage. As far as I
> >> understand searcher depends on the srchiver, right? Not completely but
> it
> >> somewhat depends on archiver. I am not sure if searcher can be
> implemented
> >> without archiver. If possible I can implement for mm3 also.
> >
> > Searcher and archiver are interdependent *if* we want to share caches and
> > data stores, which we probably do for any installation with larger
> archives
> > where storing 2 copies vs 4 of each message would make a difference.
>  Plus,
> > many archive views may be basically searches "messages in the last month"
> > "messages which are replies to messageid $foo" etc.
>
> Actually, as far as I can see, the summary/search/index/retrieval
> functions depend only on the API for the message store.  If you
> want, you can split this into the database layer and a presentation
> layer, of course.  However, the database layer is surely going to
> have its own schema optimized for the kinds of retrieval its
> designer considers important.  If the designer emphasizes
> threads, however, she is *not* going to try to store messages in
> thread order or anything like that.  Rather, any reasonable store
> will be message-ID-addressable.
>
> The only tricky issue is that we *do* have to worry about
> message-ID collisions of truly different messages and about
> messages without message IDs, especially for converted
> historical archives.  So the API needs to be able to deal
> with these issues, probably by returning a set or sequence
> of messages.
>
> Oh, and we probably ought to have a more general notion
> of retrievable "object" rather than just messages, as some
> archive/retrieval backends may store some types of MIME
> part separately.  Hopefully these would be presented to
> us as MIME parts with external bodies and content IDs.
>
> I would guess she'll probably store messages in
> YY-MM/MSGID, or as git does in "unpacked"
> XX/... format, where XX are the first two digits
> of the hash ID, and YY... are the remaining ones).  But it
> could easily be backed by an IMAP store or something
> more specialized; we don't really care as long as it's
> object-ID-addressable.
>

Assuming that we have something like this(object-ID-addressable, If I am
not wrong, mailman3 made it possible but not yet implemented as it's part
of archiver), is it over ambitious to plan to implement indexer/searcher
for mailman3 and a REST API to use this searcher, extend client to use this
api,
and django search form along with this client api? All this independent of
archiver. Because the only part common with archiver is message retrieval
part,
If we implement whole searcher, and rest of the client code, later when
archiver is implemented message retrieval code can used in searcher. When
archiver is completely mature may we can even merge them together. Is it
possible? Or this plan has any 'non-sense' parts?


> And that's all we want to say about the archiver and the
> associated message-retrieval logic, I think.  (In fact, it occurs to
> me that maybe we should say "RFC 3501" and be done with
> it.  I don't mean that we necessarily implement IMAP protocol
> per se, but some subset of its functionality probably is what we
> need from an archiver.)
>
> Then the schema-specific stuff will use hash IDs to represent
> message objects in a portable but schema-specific way.  As
> it's schema-specific, I don't really see how data structures
> can be shared by different searchers.
>
> So I would say not to worry about the archiver side at all.  If
> large installations want to implement specialized message-
> retrieval, bully for them.  But we can go with simple backends,
> maildir, mbox, and maybe IMAP, I think.
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman 3.0 beta 1 and Postorius 1.0 alpha 1

[Terri Oda]

On 03/29/2012 02:51 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:


Okay. I have to figure out why the consensus is that I am running django
1.4 while I actually installed 1.3.1:



Just for the record, the reason we suspect Django 1.4 conflicts is that 
the link you posted with the errors 
 was tossing a lot of 
errors that came from a Django-1.4 package.  For example:



 File 
"/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/Django-1.4-py2.7.egg/django/core/handlers/base.py", 
line 179, in get_response
response = self.handle_uncaught_exception(request, resolver, 
sys.exc_info())


That rather implies that it was using some pieces that were not 1.3.1, 
which could account for the errors.


 Terri

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code: Integration of Search Code

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

 Barry writes:

> I suspect that there will be plenty of mailing lists that get fed
> messages from programs, e.g. think vcs -commit diff lists.  Those programs can
> also be buggy, but again I'd prefer that Mailman not compromise on this issue
> for their sake.

I predict you will eventually lose on this.  That's not an argument
for changing, of course. :-)

> The point being that messages that flow through Mailman will have that
> hash in the message URLs in the Archived-At header and possibly in the
> decorated footers.  An archiver should certainly provide an interface to look
> up a message by pure Message-ID or the hash.  The hash is just a scheme to
> regularize the message id and is a tiny fraction more user-friendly (because
> of its limited alphabet and manageable, known-in-advance length).

I would say that's actually quite significant, because the trash that
I've observed in message-ids is varied, to be polite.  It will be nice
to be able to avoid URL-escaping, RFC 2047 soft line breaks, and all
the rest.
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] any interest in a new built-in web-archive? (i.e. pipermail replacement)

[David Champion]

* On 29 Mar 2012, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: 
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 4:04 PM, David Jeske  wrote:
> >> - Merging of forums, archives, newsgroups, and IMAP.
> >
> > You like to bite off the big ones eh? NNTP, then IMAP.
> >
> > Does anyone even use fat-mail-clients anymore?
> 
> Yes, and yes.  But I don't think anybody has really thought carefully
> about these desiderata yet, they're just frequently suggested on
> mailman-users and sometimes mailman-developers.

+1

For what it's worth: I bridged MM archives to IMAP once using UW imapd
and some scripts for proxying Mailman membership data into something
that imapd could use for access control.  When I presented it to this
list it was generally identified as something nobody (w|sh)ould ever
want.  I don't care particularly about the details of what happened in
2002 or whenever it was, but I conclude that the much bigger problem
than building this ship is choosing a destination.  It needs to start
with clear goals, because the wrong implementation is easy.

-- 
David Champion • d...@uchicago.edu • IT Services • University of Chicago
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman 3.0 beta 1 and Postorius 1.0 alpha 1

[Florian Fuchs]

Hi Odhiambo,

Am 29.03.12 18:12, schrieb Odhiambo Washington:
> My issue here is that I am not running Django 1.4 - unless I am missing
> something. I am not sure where it is coming from.
> I am on FreeBSD and I installed django-1.3.1 from the ports. A check on my
> installed apps shows just that. There is a port for py-django-devel but I
> did not install that at all:
> 
> See this
> 
> [root@jaribu] /usr/ports/www/py-django-devel# make fetch
> 
> ===>  py27-django-devel-17269,1 conflicts with installed package(s):
>   py27-django-1.3.1
> 
>   They install files into the same place.
>   You may want to stop build with Ctrl + C.
> ===>  License check disabled, port has not defined LICENSE
> => Django-r17269.tar.xz doesn't seem to exist in
> /usr/ports/distfiles/python.
> => Attempting to fetch
> http://people.cs.nctu.edu.tw/~lwhsu/ports/distfiles/Django-r17269.tar.xz
> Django-r17269.tar.xz   85% of 4135 kB  135 kBps
> 00m04s
> 
> That shows I have django-1.3.1 installed.
> 
> I went as far as this:
>  `mv /usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django
> /usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/_django-1.4`
> Then reinstalled django-1.3.1, but I am pretty sure that the above action
> wasn't necessary.

Generally, *if* you have multiple versions installed and want to know
which version is actually imported, cd to postorius/dev_setup, open up a
Python shell and try the following:

 >>> import django
 >>> django.__file__  # prints the package path
 >>> django.VERSION   # prints the django version

> 
> So I wiped put everything - python, django, mailman, mailman.client,
> py-sqlite3 - and reinstalled. Mailman gave me enough grief
> with bin/test and I had to wipe and reinstall several times. Perhaps it
> wasn't getting all the files during bin/build.
> 
> Now things look promising, but I still get errors about some templates I
> need to create - 500.html, 400.html
> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> 
>   File 
> "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/core/servers/basehttp.py",
> line 283, in run
> self.result = application(self.environ, self.start_response)
> 
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/core/handlers/wsgi.py",
> line 272, in __call__
> response = self.get_response(request)
> 
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/core/handlers/base.py",
> line 169, in get_response
> response = self.handle_uncaught_exception(request, resolver, 
> sys.exc_info())
> 
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/core/handlers/base.py",
> line 218, in handle_uncaught_exception
> return callback(request, **param_dict)
> 
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/utils/decorators.py",
> line 93, in _wrapped_view
> response = view_func(request, *args, **kwargs)
> 
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/views/defaults.py",
> line 30, in server_error
> t = loader.get_template(template_name) # You need to create a
> 500.html template.
> 
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/template/loader.py",
> line 157, in get_template
> template, origin = find_template(template_name)
> 
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/template/loader.py",
> line 138, in find_template
> raise TemplateDoesNotExist(name)
> 
> TemplateDoesNotExist: 500.html

Django tries to find a 500.html file to display a standard error page.
It cannot find one and raises TemplateDoesNotExist. But the more
important question is: What's the actual cause for the 500 internal
server error?

IIRC Django only looks for a 500.html in non-DEBUG mode, so my guess is
that your DEBUG setting in dev_setup/settings.py is set to False. If
that is the case a good next step would be to set it to True and have a
look at the traceback again - it should be much more detailed than the
one you're seeing right now and (hopefully) give us a clue what's
actullay going wrong.

If you like paste the traceback to some of the various pasters out there
(like paste.ubuntu.com) and post the link to it here - it's much easier
to read then.

Florian


> 
> 
> 
> How do  I create these and where do I place them? Where is the guide??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] any interest in a new built-in web-archive? (i.e. pipermail replacement)

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 4:04 PM, David Jeske  wrote:
>> - Merging of forums, archives, newsgroups, and IMAP.
>
> You like to bite off the big ones eh? NNTP, then IMAP.
>
> Does anyone even use fat-mail-clients anymore?

Yes, and yes.  But I don't think anybody has really thought carefully
about these desiderata yet, they're just frequently suggested on
mailman-users and sometimes mailman-developers.
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] mailman / archive-ui / licensing questions

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 1:00 PM, David Jeske  wrote:

> I started to talk to one of them about installing CSLA (or MHonArc, or
> anything really), and realized I should see if you folks are interested in
> a great bundled archiver,

I'm personally interested, but that's not going to be the main focus
until the core gets a little less alpha, I would guess.

> I admit that even with a pretty good knowledge of these many licenses, I'm
> not familiar with the intracacies of FSF copyright assignment and non-GPL
> free licenses.

The bottom line is that if you assign it to the FSF, they can change
the license of future copies to something you don't like without your
permission, or even consulting you.  This has been done in the past
(eg, libreadline).  I don't know whether they would bother with a
non-GNU project, though.

However, copies of the version you originally released under a
different license remain under that license, and there's always a
grant-back clause in the assignment contract that allows you to make
derivatives of your contributions available under any license you
like.

> The ClearsilverArchiver code (written by me and two others) is released
> under the "Simplified BSD" license and "totally free".  It's important to me
> that any code I release be similarly free-and-unrestricted
> (i.e. BSD/Python/Artistic/PublicDomain), not free under certain conditions
> (i.e. GPL/LGPL). It's not possible to assert GPL restrictions on
> totally-free code, because it's already totally free.

That's not the way copyright works, though.  It certainly is possible
to assert GPL (or any other) restrictions on given *copies* of
permissively-licensed code.  If you've got a copy of the old (say,
early '90s) O'Reilly "X Window System" series kicking around, check
out the copyright notice in those books.  (Preventing that is
precisely why copyleft advocates advocate copyleft.)  Even on a
verbatim copy, lawyerly FUD means that even if there is no actual
legal issue, practically it may be infeasible for just plain folks to
redistribute.  Cf. the DMCA takedowns.

> FSF says S-BSD is GPL-Compatible, which I believe means they are saying
> they have no problem with GPL code depending on and being combined with
> (i.e. linked with) S-BSD code, because the S-BSD code is fully open-source
> and does not put restrictions on the use of the GPL code.

No.  What they mean is that it is Borg-able.  You can assimilate S-BSD
code into a GPL project, and that copy is distributed under the GPL.
Perhaps in legal theory they cannot prevent you from making copies of
the S-BSD portions and doing anything the S-BSD permits, but the S-BSD
(like other permissive licenses) does not require them to tell you
what parts are S-BSD, only that some parts are, and who wrote those
(unspecified) parts.  (The wording is generally to the effect of "This
file is part of the FOO Program, which is licensed to you under the
GPL.  It contains software by J. Random Hacker, with the following
permissions notice...".)  The burden will be on the user to determine
which parts can and cannot be copied, and if it comes to a court case,
the user will have to prove that the parts they've copied are not
actually GPL.

I would say you should try to retain copyright, and have the Mailman
project distribute it with the S-BSD license under the "mere
aggregation" clause of the GPL.  This would entail certain
restrictions on interface.  Eg, you can't put the whole thing in a
pipeline Handler, and you would need to have a separate webapp for
summarizing/indexing/searching/retrieving the archived posts.  I
advocate those restrictions anyway. :-)  Some small glue parts that
need to be tightly integrated with core Mailman might need to be done
under GPL.

> It's also my understanding that the primary reason for FSF copyright
> assignment is to provide a coherent entity to enforce the terms of the GPL
> by challenging violators who don't redistribute source something which
> is not necessary for S-BSD. (Though I suppose they could enforce that folks
> include the S-BSD copyright notices.)

The FSF's reason is so that they have control over the license, which
allows them to make it GPL if that seems like a good idea to them.
(Mostly they are way too busy to go looking for opportunities, though,
and it's a labor-intensive process for a project of any size.)  In
return, they will enforce license provisions.

Projects may also wish to do this so that they have the legal right to
offer other licenses (the FSF is not a good assignee for this
purpose!), or change the primary license.  If no single entity owns
the whole copyright, then you have to get agreement of all owners,
some of whom may be in retreat in a Tibetan monastery or the heirs to
someone who lost an argument with a bus, etc.  (MIT specifically
allows sublicensing, as does Larry Rosen's AFT; but S-BSD does not.)

> Is Mailman-team is interested in having a better built-in archiver that is
> included in the distribution

Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman 3.0 beta 1 and Postorius 1.0 alpha 1

[Odhiambo Washington]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 13:53, Florian Fuchs  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> there seems to be a general problem running postorius with Django 1.4.
>
> Postorius alpha1 was released the same day Django 1.4 was, so we haven't
> had anyone on the team so far who was running 1.4 while working on
> postorius.
>
>
@Florian,

My issue here is that I am not running Django 1.4 - unless I am missing
something. I am not sure where it is coming from.
I am on FreeBSD and I installed django-1.3.1 from the ports. A check on my
installed apps shows just that. There is a port for py-django-devel but I
did not install that at all:

See this

[root@jaribu] /usr/ports/www/py-django-devel# make fetch

===>  py27-django-devel-17269,1 conflicts with installed package(s):
  py27-django-1.3.1

  They install files into the same place.
  You may want to stop build with Ctrl + C.
===>  License check disabled, port has not defined LICENSE
=> Django-r17269.tar.xz doesn't seem to exist in
/usr/ports/distfiles/python.
=> Attempting to fetch
http://people.cs.nctu.edu.tw/~lwhsu/ports/distfiles/Django-r17269.tar.xz
Django-r17269.tar.xz   85% of 4135 kB  135 kBps
00m04s

That shows I have django-1.3.1 installed.

I went as far as this:
 `mv /usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django
/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/_django-1.4`
Then reinstalled django-1.3.1, but I am pretty sure that the above action
wasn't necessary.

So I wiped put everything - python, django, mailman, mailman.client,
py-sqlite3 - and reinstalled. Mailman gave me enough grief
with bin/test and I had to wipe and reinstall several times. Perhaps it
wasn't getting all the files during bin/build.

Now things look promising, but I still get errors about some templates I
need to create - 500.html, 400.html


Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/core/servers/basehttp.py",
line 283, in run
self.result = application(self.environ, self.start_response)

  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/core/handlers/wsgi.py",
line 272, in __call__
response = self.get_response(request)

  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/core/handlers/base.py",
line 169, in get_response
response = self.handle_uncaught_exception(request, resolver, sys.exc_info())

  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/core/handlers/base.py",
line 218, in handle_uncaught_exception
return callback(request, **param_dict)

  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/utils/decorators.py",
line 93, in _wrapped_view
response = view_func(request, *args, **kwargs)

  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/views/defaults.py",
line 30, in server_error
t = loader.get_template(template_name) # You need to create a
500.html template.

  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/template/loader.py",
line 157, in get_template
template, origin = find_template(template_name)

  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/template/loader.py",
line 138, in find_template
raise TemplateDoesNotExist(name)

TemplateDoesNotExist: 500.html



How do  I create these and where do I place them? Where is the guide??



-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code: Integration of Search Code

[Richard Wackerbarth]

On Mar 29, 2012, at 10:17 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:

> (Aside: Is there some reason why you To: me and CC: the list rather than
> having the list address in the To: field?  I ask because I'm wondering if it's
> a gmail thing, or something about your MUA, and because I suppress the list
> copy if I'm CC'd directly, I don't get a List-Post: header, so my MUA's
> reply-to-list won't work on your messages.

> On Mar 29, 2012, at 11:46 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:



Barry,

I would guess that it is a MUA thing.

I received, (from the list):
From:   Barry Warsaw 
To: Stephen J. Turnbull 
Cc: Mailman Developer List 


If I select "Reply All:, my MUA (OSX Mail 4.5) generates:
From:   Richard Wackerbarth
To: Barry Warsaw 
Cc: Stephen J. Turnbull , Mailman 
Developer List 


I them (manually) altered the headers to sent this only to the list.

Richard
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code: Integration of Search Code

[Barry Warsaw]

(Aside: Is there some reason why you To: me and CC: the list rather than
having the list address in the To: field?  I ask because I'm wondering if it's
a gmail thing, or something about your MUA, and because I suppress the list
copy if I'm CC'd directly, I don't get a List-Post: header, so my MUA's
reply-to-list won't work on your messages.  I'm mostly curious because I can
work around it as you see here, but just wanted to point it out in case you
weren't aware of it and/or could easily fix it -- if you even agree it's
broken. ;)

On Mar 29, 2012, at 11:46 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Barry Warsaw  wrote:
>
>> Mailman 3 itself requires unique Message-IDs.
>
>So?  FWIW, I don't think I agree with that requirement (even RFC 5322
>doesn't make it a "MUST"), but I'm not going to argue with you about
>Mailman 3 design, that's your pidgin.

We had a fairly lengthy discussion about this a year or so ago, and I'm pretty
sure we came to the consensus (even if not unanimous) that it was reasonable
for Mailman to impose this restriction.  It's 2012 so if your MUA/MTA can't
generate unique message id's there's no reason for us to think you're not a
spammer .

>But there's nothing particularly Mailman-3-dependent about archiver web UIs,
>though.  I don't see any reason why the front end shouldn't be used on my
>several gigs of personal archives going back to about 1980, eg, or as a poor
>man's webmail.

True, the archiver as an independent component can be more lenient.  I'm just
pointing out that as fed from Mailman, it will only get unique message ids.
And if it doesn't, that's a bug in Mailman.

>> IIRC, the Mail Archive guys found a very very low collision rate over
>> millions of messages, and I think all such cases were basically spam.
>
>Sure, but XEmacs archives go back to at least 1994.  mailarchive.com
>is a more recent phenomenon.  In the early days of Linux/*BSD
>diffusion, there were lots of buggy MUAs/very simple MTAs out there.

Sure.  And I suspect that there will be plenty of mailing lists that get fed
messages from programs, e.g. think vcs -commit diff lists.  Those programs can
also be buggy, but again I'd prefer that Mailman not compromise on this issue
for their sake.

>It doesn't do that for subobject content IDs, and more important,
>users don't necessarily have the X-Message-ID-Hash (they may have
>not-metoo set, they may have gotten the message as a direct Cc).
>True, it's easy enough to compute -- if you're a Mailman 3 developer
>and know it's present.  And, of course, why have a Mailman 3
>dependency that is absolutely unnecessary?

Right.  The point being that messages that flow through Mailman will have that
hash in the message URLs in the Archived-At header and possibly in the
decorated footers.  An archiver should certainly provide an interface to look
up a message by pure Message-ID or the hash.  The hash is just a scheme to
regularize the message id and is a tiny fraction more user-friendly (because
of its limited alphabet and manageable, known-in-advance length).

-Barry


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Additional Mailman GSoC mentors

[Barry Warsaw]

On Mar 29, 2012, at 07:53 AM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:

>I can answer questions about using bzr and some launchpad questions
>(although I also have lots of launchpad questions of my own :-).  I'm now
>fully versed in Warsaw import style rules although I should probably
>recertify at the next pycon :-)

Anybody else want to take the 300 page quiz on that?

:)

>It does seem like there's a lot of interest in archivers this year (at
>least, people have been pinging me about that.  Since archivers for mailman3
>are somewhat in their infancy, it would be good to think of a "what do we
>want the state of archivers to be after the summer and a year from now" so
>that we can make sure that GSoC work fits into that.

+1

-Barry


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Additional Mailman GSoC mentors

[Toshio Kuratomi]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 01:57:03AM -0600, Terri Oda wrote:
> It's looking like we're going to have more student applicants than in
> previous years, so I think it'd be great if we could get a few more
> mentors to match.
> 
> If you're a semi-active mailman developer (i.e. I'm going to
> recognize your name from your mailman-developers postings) and you
> think you might interested in mentoring for GSoC this summer or just
> want to know what's involved, please get in touch with me!
> 
I'm willing to help mentor some work.  I'd really like to mentor with
some other people -- especially at the application review stages -- I do
have more time for day-to-day mentoring if that's done on IRC (Interrupt
Driven Design, anyone ;-)  But so far, my knowledge of the mailman codebase
is limited mainly to archiver stuff.

I can answer questions about using bzr and some launchpad questions
(although I also have lots of launchpad questions of my own :-).  I'm now
fully versed in Warsaw import style rules although I should probably
recertify at the next pycon :-)

It does seem like there's a lot of interest in archivers this year (at
least, people have been pinging me about that.  Since archivers for mailman3
are somewhat in their infancy, it would be good to think of a "what do we
want the state of archivers to be after the summer and a year from now" so
that we can make sure that GSoC work fits into that.

-Toshio


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code: Integration of Search Code

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Barry Warsaw  wrote:

> Mailman 3 itself requires unique Message-IDs.

So?  FWIW, I don't think I agree with that requirement (even RFC 5322
doesn't make it a "MUST"), but I'm not going to argue with you about
Mailman 3 design, that's your pidgin.  But there's nothing
particularly Mailman-3-dependent about archiver web UIs, though.  I
don't see any reason why the front end shouldn't be used on my several
gigs of personal archives going back to about 1980, eg, or as a poor
man's webmail.

> IIRC, the Mail Archive guys
> found a very very low collision rate over millions of messages, and I think
> all such cases were basically spam.

Sure, but XEmacs archives go back to at least 1994.  mailarchive.com
is a more recent phenomenon.  In the early days of Linux/*BSD
diffusion, there were lots of buggy MUAs/very simple MTAs out there.

>>hash ID, and YY... are the remaining ones).  But it could easily be backed by
>>an IMAP store or something more specialized; we don't really care as long as
>>it's object-ID-addressable.
>
> Don't forget too that the LMTP runner automatically adds the X-Message-ID-Hash
> header, which is a Base32 encoding of the SHA1 hash of the Message-ID contents
> (without the angle brackets).  This hash could be used as well.

It doesn't do that for subobject content IDs, and more important,
users don't necessarily have the X-Message-ID-Hash (they may have
not-metoo set, they may have gotten the message as a direct Cc).
True, it's easy enough to compute -- if you're a Mailman 3 developer
and know it's present.  And, of course, why have a Mailman 3
dependency that is absolutely unnecessary?
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC

[Florian Fuchs]

Am 29.03.12 03:49, schrieb Stephen J. Turnbull:
> To be honest, I don't see how it would be related to Postorius, except
> perhaps as some sort of plug-in (but we don't have a plug-in
> architecture for Postorius, yet).  Adding such features to Postorius
> would be bloat, IMO.  I also worry about the performance hit; I think
> it should probably maintain its own database, etc for the data-mining
> end, and sparingly access the REST client API to update profiles.

It could go into a separate application, but preferably one that could
be hooked into by Postorius. Django already has some kind of
plugin-architecture. It's generally pretty easy to "plug" different apps
together if they follow some simple guidelines for re-usability
(postorius is already using django.contrib.auth and django-social-auth
for instance).

Also, Django allows using multiple databases (even different db-types)
within the same project, so there would be no need to use one database
for everything. (Of course if your db needs are more exotic or beyond
the SQL realm, you're not obliged to use Django's ORM at all.)

Without strongly suggesting any architecture here: I think the relation
to Postorius would be that it currently takes care of authentication and
already holds some user information. So displaying this kind of extended
information within postorius only seemed natural. No matter where this
data is generated from.

I'm not advocating to bloat Postorius, but to use Django. :-)

> 
>> Yes, those would all be very interesting pieces of data.
> 
> To stalkers and Tom Clancy's favorite folks, as well as to nicer
> people.  Make sure there are opt-outs for users.

We talked about that at the PyCon sprint a little. If Postorius displays
more detailed user information the privacy defaults should be pretty
strict. Rather an opt-in than an opt-out. And possibly even more
fine-grained, something like: "Show this piece of information only to:
me - other list members - everyone"... or similar.

Florian



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Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman 3.0 beta 1 and Postorius 1.0 alpha 1

[Florian Fuchs]

Hi,

there seems to be a general problem running postorius with Django 1.4.

Postorius alpha1 was released the same day Django 1.4 was, so we haven't
had anyone on the team so far who was running 1.4 while working on
postorius.

@Shayan, could you file a bug on https://launchpad.net/postorius and
paste your traceback into the description field? I will try to get into
it as soon as possible.

Thanks!
Florian




Am 29.03.12 10:51, schrieb Odhiambo Washington:
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 11:12, Shayan Md  wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Odhiambo Washington 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:33, Shayan Md  wrote:
>>>


 On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Odhiambo Washington <
 odhia...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 22:31, Florian Fuchs 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Odhiambo,
>>
>> Am 28.03.12 18:47, schrieb Odhiambo Washington:
>>> One more thing:
>>>
>>> In settings.py, I have this:
>>>
>>> REST_SERVER = 'http://192.168.40.252:8001'
>>>
>>> However, this doesn't seem to be respected when I do runserver:
>>>
>>> [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/postorius/dev_setup#
>>> python manage.py runserver
>>> Validating models...
>>>
>>> 0 errors found
>>> Django version 1.4, using settings 'dev_setup.settings'
>>> Development server is running at http://127.0.0.1:8000/
>>> Quit the server with CONTROL-C.
>>>
>>>
>>> [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash# sockstat -l | grep 800
>>> root python 77906 3  tcp4   127.0.0.1:8000
>>> *:*
>>> root python 14108 43 tcp4   127.0.0.1:8001
>>> *:*
>>>
>>> Since I am not using the server as a Desktop, I need a way to
> access it
>>> remotely, not via 127.0.0.1
>>
>> The REST_SERVER setting defines the location of Mailman's rest API
>> (which is frequently accessed by postorius), *not* the address of
>> postorius itself. The API can only be accessed from localhost, so the
>> setting has to be 'http://localhost:8001'.
>>
>> If you'd like to access postorius from a different machine as the one
>> you're running it on, that's no problem:
>>
>> Just run the development server like this and you're good to go:
>>
>> python manage.py runserver 192.168.x.xxx:8000
>>
>> (Don't do that on a machine that is exposed to the web though, since
>> Django's dev server is not meant to be run in a production
> environment.)
>>
>> Hope that helps!
>>
>> Florian
>>
>>
>
> My current quest is to see what MM3 web UI looks like, but it appears I
> am
> still way behind.
> I get these errors in the backend when I run posturious and try to
> access
> it:
>
> http://bit.ly/H2rDuW
>
 Looks like you didn't start mailman server. Go through this[1] page to
 setup mailman3.

 [1]
 http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running


>>> Maybe and maybe not, as I was following this very guide!
>>>
>>> [wash@jaribu ~/public_html]$ ps ax | grep mailman
>>> 70295  ??  Is  0:00.40 /usr/local/bin/python
>>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/master
>>> 70298  ??  S   0:01.52 /usr/local/bin/python
>>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>>> --runner=news:0:1
>>> 70299  ??  S   0:01.57 /usr/local/bin/python
>>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner --runner=in:0:1
>>> 70300  ??  S   0:01.46 /usr/local/bin/python
>>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>>> --runner=digest:0:1
>>> 70301  ??  S   0:01.49 /usr/local/bin/python
>>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>>> --runner=pipeline:0:1
>>> 70302  ??  S   0:01.45 /usr/local/bin/python
>>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>>> --runner=archive:0:1
>>> 70303  ??  S   0:01.46 /usr/local/bin/python
>>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner --runner=out:0:1
>>> 70304  ??  I   0:00.41 /usr/local/bin/python
>>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>>> --runner=retry:0:1
>>> 70305  ??  S   0:01.17 /usr/local/bin/python
>>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>>> --runner=rest:0:1
>>> 70306  ??  S   0:01.46 /usr/local/bin/python
>>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>>> --runner=bounces:0:1
>>> 70307  ??  S   0:00.43 /usr/local/bin/python
>>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>>> --runner=lmtp:0:1
>>> 70308  ??  S   0:01.45 /usr/local/bin/python
>>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>>> --runner=command:0:1
>>> 70309  ??  S   0:01.50 /usr/local/bin/python
>>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mail

Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman 3.0 beta 1 and Postorius 1.0 alpha 1

[Odhiambo Washington]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 11:12, Shayan Md  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Odhiambo Washington 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:33, Shayan Md  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Odhiambo Washington <
>>> odhia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 22:31, Florian Fuchs 
 wrote:

 > Hi Odhiambo,
 >
 > Am 28.03.12 18:47, schrieb Odhiambo Washington:
 > > One more thing:
 > >
 > > In settings.py, I have this:
 > >
 > > REST_SERVER = 'http://192.168.40.252:8001'
 > >
 > > However, this doesn't seem to be respected when I do runserver:
 > >
 > > [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/postorius/dev_setup#
 > > python manage.py runserver
 > > Validating models...
 > >
 > > 0 errors found
 > > Django version 1.4, using settings 'dev_setup.settings'
 > > Development server is running at http://127.0.0.1:8000/
 > > Quit the server with CONTROL-C.
 > >
 > >
 > > [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash# sockstat -l | grep 800
 > > root python 77906 3  tcp4   127.0.0.1:8000
 > > *:*
 > > root python 14108 43 tcp4   127.0.0.1:8001
 > > *:*
 > >
 > > Since I am not using the server as a Desktop, I need a way to
 access it
 > > remotely, not via 127.0.0.1
 >
 > The REST_SERVER setting defines the location of Mailman's rest API
 > (which is frequently accessed by postorius), *not* the address of
 > postorius itself. The API can only be accessed from localhost, so the
 > setting has to be 'http://localhost:8001'.
 >
 > If you'd like to access postorius from a different machine as the one
 > you're running it on, that's no problem:
 >
 > Just run the development server like this and you're good to go:
 >
 > python manage.py runserver 192.168.x.xxx:8000
 >
 > (Don't do that on a machine that is exposed to the web though, since
 > Django's dev server is not meant to be run in a production
 environment.)
 >
 > Hope that helps!
 >
 > Florian
 >
 >

 My current quest is to see what MM3 web UI looks like, but it appears I
 am
 still way behind.
 I get these errors in the backend when I run posturious and try to
 access
 it:

 http://bit.ly/H2rDuW

>>> Looks like you didn't start mailman server. Go through this[1] page to
>>> setup mailman3.
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running
>>>
>>>
>> Maybe and maybe not, as I was following this very guide!
>>
>> [wash@jaribu ~/public_html]$ ps ax | grep mailman
>> 70295  ??  Is  0:00.40 /usr/local/bin/python
>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/master
>> 70298  ??  S   0:01.52 /usr/local/bin/python
>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>> --runner=news:0:1
>> 70299  ??  S   0:01.57 /usr/local/bin/python
>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner --runner=in:0:1
>> 70300  ??  S   0:01.46 /usr/local/bin/python
>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>> --runner=digest:0:1
>> 70301  ??  S   0:01.49 /usr/local/bin/python
>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>> --runner=pipeline:0:1
>> 70302  ??  S   0:01.45 /usr/local/bin/python
>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>> --runner=archive:0:1
>> 70303  ??  S   0:01.46 /usr/local/bin/python
>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner --runner=out:0:1
>> 70304  ??  I   0:00.41 /usr/local/bin/python
>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>> --runner=retry:0:1
>> 70305  ??  S   0:01.17 /usr/local/bin/python
>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>> --runner=rest:0:1
>> 70306  ??  S   0:01.46 /usr/local/bin/python
>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>> --runner=bounces:0:1
>> 70307  ??  S   0:00.43 /usr/local/bin/python
>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>> --runner=lmtp:0:1
>> 70308  ??  S   0:01.45 /usr/local/bin/python
>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>> --runner=command:0:1
>> 70309  ??  S   0:01.50 /usr/local/bin/python
>> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
>> --runner=virgin:0:1
>> 78850   1  S+  0:00.01 grep mailman
>>
>> Is there something amiss?
>>
>>
>> [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash# sockstat -l | grep 800
>> root python 70442 3  tcp4   192.168.40.252:8000   *:*
>> root python 70305 43 tcp4   127.0.0.1:8001*:*
>>
>>
>> I suppose the 8001 is mailman and 8000 is posturious.
>
> Downgrading to django 1.3 might do the trick. Same error here
> https://answers.launchpad.net/graphite/+question/191549
>
>>
>>
>>
Okay

Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman 3.0 beta 1 and Postorius 1.0 alpha 1

[Shayan Md]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:33, Shayan Md  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Odhiambo Washington > > wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 22:31, Florian Fuchs  wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi Odhiambo,
>>> >
>>> > Am 28.03.12 18:47, schrieb Odhiambo Washington:
>>> > > One more thing:
>>> > >
>>> > > In settings.py, I have this:
>>> > >
>>> > > REST_SERVER = 'http://192.168.40.252:8001'
>>> > >
>>> > > However, this doesn't seem to be respected when I do runserver:
>>> > >
>>> > > [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/postorius/dev_setup#
>>> > > python manage.py runserver
>>> > > Validating models...
>>> > >
>>> > > 0 errors found
>>> > > Django version 1.4, using settings 'dev_setup.settings'
>>> > > Development server is running at http://127.0.0.1:8000/
>>> > > Quit the server with CONTROL-C.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash# sockstat -l | grep 800
>>> > > root python 77906 3  tcp4   127.0.0.1:8000
>>> > > *:*
>>> > > root python 14108 43 tcp4   127.0.0.1:8001
>>> > > *:*
>>> > >
>>> > > Since I am not using the server as a Desktop, I need a way to access
>>> it
>>> > > remotely, not via 127.0.0.1
>>> >
>>> > The REST_SERVER setting defines the location of Mailman's rest API
>>> > (which is frequently accessed by postorius), *not* the address of
>>> > postorius itself. The API can only be accessed from localhost, so the
>>> > setting has to be 'http://localhost:8001'.
>>> >
>>> > If you'd like to access postorius from a different machine as the one
>>> > you're running it on, that's no problem:
>>> >
>>> > Just run the development server like this and you're good to go:
>>> >
>>> > python manage.py runserver 192.168.x.xxx:8000
>>> >
>>> > (Don't do that on a machine that is exposed to the web though, since
>>> > Django's dev server is not meant to be run in a production
>>> environment.)
>>> >
>>> > Hope that helps!
>>> >
>>> > Florian
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> My current quest is to see what MM3 web UI looks like, but it appears I
>>> am
>>> still way behind.
>>> I get these errors in the backend when I run posturious and try to access
>>> it:
>>>
>>> http://bit.ly/H2rDuW
>>>
>> Looks like you didn't start mailman server. Go through this[1] page to
>> setup mailman3.
>>
>> [1]
>> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running
>>
>>
> Maybe and maybe not, as I was following this very guide!
>
> [wash@jaribu ~/public_html]$ ps ax | grep mailman
> 70295  ??  Is  0:00.40 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/master
> 70298  ??  S   0:01.52 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=news:0:1
> 70299  ??  S   0:01.57 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner --runner=in:0:1
> 70300  ??  S   0:01.46 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=digest:0:1
> 70301  ??  S   0:01.49 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=pipeline:0:1
> 70302  ??  S   0:01.45 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=archive:0:1
> 70303  ??  S   0:01.46 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner --runner=out:0:1
> 70304  ??  I   0:00.41 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=retry:0:1
> 70305  ??  S   0:01.17 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=rest:0:1
> 70306  ??  S   0:01.46 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=bounces:0:1
> 70307  ??  S   0:00.43 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=lmtp:0:1
> 70308  ??  S   0:01.45 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=command:0:1
> 70309  ??  S   0:01.50 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=virgin:0:1
> 78850   1  S+  0:00.01 grep mailman
>
> Is there something amiss?
>
>
> [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash# sockstat -l | grep 800
> root python 70442 3  tcp4   192.168.40.252:8000   *:*
> root python 70305 43 tcp4   127.0.0.1:8001*:*
>
>
> I suppose the 8001 is mailman and 8000 is posturious.

Downgrading to django 1.3 might do the trick. Same error here
https://answers.launchpad.net/graphite/+question/191549

>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
> Nairobi,KE
> +254733744121/+254722743223
> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
> Please consider the environment before printing

[Mailman-Developers] Additional Mailman GSoC mentors

[Terri Oda]

It's looking like we're going to have more student applicants than in 
previous years, so I think it'd be great if we could get a few more 
mentors to match.


If you're a semi-active mailman developer (i.e. I'm going to recognize 
your name from your mailman-developers postings) and you think you might 
interested in mentoring for GSoC this summer or just want to know what's 
involved, please get in touch with me!


 Terri

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman 3.0 beta 1 and Postorius 1.0 alpha 1

[Shayan Md]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:33, Shayan Md  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Odhiambo Washington > > wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 22:31, Florian Fuchs  wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi Odhiambo,
>>> >
>>> > Am 28.03.12 18:47, schrieb Odhiambo Washington:
>>> > > One more thing:
>>> > >
>>> > > In settings.py, I have this:
>>> > >
>>> > > REST_SERVER = 'http://192.168.40.252:8001'
>>> > >
>>> > > However, this doesn't seem to be respected when I do runserver:
>>> > >
>>> > > [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/postorius/dev_setup#
>>> > > python manage.py runserver
>>> > > Validating models...
>>> > >
>>> > > 0 errors found
>>> > > Django version 1.4, using settings 'dev_setup.settings'
>>> > > Development server is running at http://127.0.0.1:8000/
>>> > > Quit the server with CONTROL-C.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash# sockstat -l | grep 800
>>> > > root python 77906 3  tcp4   127.0.0.1:8000
>>> > > *:*
>>> > > root python 14108 43 tcp4   127.0.0.1:8001
>>> > > *:*
>>> > >
>>> > > Since I am not using the server as a Desktop, I need a way to access
>>> it
>>> > > remotely, not via 127.0.0.1
>>> >
>>> > The REST_SERVER setting defines the location of Mailman's rest API
>>> > (which is frequently accessed by postorius), *not* the address of
>>> > postorius itself. The API can only be accessed from localhost, so the
>>> > setting has to be 'http://localhost:8001'.
>>> >
>>> > If you'd like to access postorius from a different machine as the one
>>> > you're running it on, that's no problem:
>>> >
>>> > Just run the development server like this and you're good to go:
>>> >
>>> > python manage.py runserver 192.168.x.xxx:8000
>>> >
>>> > (Don't do that on a machine that is exposed to the web though, since
>>> > Django's dev server is not meant to be run in a production
>>> environment.)
>>> >
>>> > Hope that helps!
>>> >
>>> > Florian
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> My current quest is to see what MM3 web UI looks like, but it appears I
>>> am
>>> still way behind.
>>> I get these errors in the backend when I run posturious and try to access
>>> it:
>>>
>>> http://bit.ly/H2rDuW
>>>
>> Looks like you didn't start mailman server. Go through this[1] page to
>> setup mailman3.
>>
>> [1]
>> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running
>>
>>
> Maybe and maybe not, as I was following this very guide!
>
> [wash@jaribu ~/public_html]$ ps ax | grep mailman
> 70295  ??  Is  0:00.40 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/master
> 70298  ??  S   0:01.52 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=news:0:1
> 70299  ??  S   0:01.57 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner --runner=in:0:1
> 70300  ??  S   0:01.46 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=digest:0:1
> 70301  ??  S   0:01.49 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=pipeline:0:1
> 70302  ??  S   0:01.45 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=archive:0:1
> 70303  ??  S   0:01.46 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner --runner=out:0:1
> 70304  ??  I   0:00.41 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=retry:0:1
> 70305  ??  S   0:01.17 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=rest:0:1
> 70306  ??  S   0:01.46 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=bounces:0:1
> 70307  ??  S   0:00.43 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=lmtp:0:1
> 70308  ??  S   0:01.45 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=command:0:1
> 70309  ??  S   0:01.50 /usr/local/bin/python
> /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
> --runner=virgin:0:1
> 78850   1  S+  0:00.01 grep mailman
>
> Is there something amiss?
>
>
> [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash# sockstat -l | grep 800
> root python 70442 3  tcp4   192.168.40.252:8000   *:*
> root python 70305 43 tcp4   127.0.0.1:8001*:*
>
>
> I suppose the 8001 is mailman and 8000 is posturious.
>
> Err.. I was wrong. It must be something else, which I don't know.

>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
> Nairobi,KE
> +254733744121/+254722743223
> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
<>

Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman 3.0 beta 1 and Postorius 1.0 alpha 1

[Odhiambo Washington]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:33, Shayan Md  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Odhiambo Washington 
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 22:31, Florian Fuchs  wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Odhiambo,
>> >
>> > Am 28.03.12 18:47, schrieb Odhiambo Washington:
>> > > One more thing:
>> > >
>> > > In settings.py, I have this:
>> > >
>> > > REST_SERVER = 'http://192.168.40.252:8001'
>> > >
>> > > However, this doesn't seem to be respected when I do runserver:
>> > >
>> > > [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/postorius/dev_setup#
>> > > python manage.py runserver
>> > > Validating models...
>> > >
>> > > 0 errors found
>> > > Django version 1.4, using settings 'dev_setup.settings'
>> > > Development server is running at http://127.0.0.1:8000/
>> > > Quit the server with CONTROL-C.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash# sockstat -l | grep 800
>> > > root python 77906 3  tcp4   127.0.0.1:8000
>> > > *:*
>> > > root python 14108 43 tcp4   127.0.0.1:8001
>> > > *:*
>> > >
>> > > Since I am not using the server as a Desktop, I need a way to access
>> it
>> > > remotely, not via 127.0.0.1
>> >
>> > The REST_SERVER setting defines the location of Mailman's rest API
>> > (which is frequently accessed by postorius), *not* the address of
>> > postorius itself. The API can only be accessed from localhost, so the
>> > setting has to be 'http://localhost:8001'.
>> >
>> > If you'd like to access postorius from a different machine as the one
>> > you're running it on, that's no problem:
>> >
>> > Just run the development server like this and you're good to go:
>> >
>> > python manage.py runserver 192.168.x.xxx:8000
>> >
>> > (Don't do that on a machine that is exposed to the web though, since
>> > Django's dev server is not meant to be run in a production environment.)
>> >
>> > Hope that helps!
>> >
>> > Florian
>> >
>> >
>>
>> My current quest is to see what MM3 web UI looks like, but it appears I am
>> still way behind.
>> I get these errors in the backend when I run posturious and try to access
>> it:
>>
>> http://bit.ly/H2rDuW
>>
> Looks like you didn't start mailman server. Go through this[1] page to
> setup mailman3.
>
> [1]
> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running
>
>
Maybe and maybe not, as I was following this very guide!

[wash@jaribu ~/public_html]$ ps ax | grep mailman
70295  ??  Is  0:00.40 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/master
70298  ??  S   0:01.52 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
--runner=news:0:1
70299  ??  S   0:01.57 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner --runner=in:0:1
70300  ??  S   0:01.46 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
--runner=digest:0:1
70301  ??  S   0:01.49 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
--runner=pipeline:0:1
70302  ??  S   0:01.45 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
--runner=archive:0:1
70303  ??  S   0:01.46 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner --runner=out:0:1
70304  ??  I   0:00.41 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
--runner=retry:0:1
70305  ??  S   0:01.17 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
--runner=rest:0:1
70306  ??  S   0:01.46 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
--runner=bounces:0:1
70307  ??  S   0:00.43 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
--runner=lmtp:0:1
70308  ??  S   0:01.45 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
--runner=command:0:1
70309  ??  S   0:01.50 /usr/local/bin/python
/usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/mailman-3.0.0b1/bin/runner
--runner=virgin:0:1
78850   1  S+  0:00.01 grep mailman

Is there something amiss?

[root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash# sockstat -l | grep 800
root python 70442 3  tcp4   192.168.40.252:8000   *:*
root python 70305 43 tcp4   127.0.0.1:8001*:*


I suppose the 8001 is mailman and 8000 is posturious.


-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman 3.0 beta 1 and Postorius 1.0 alpha 1

[Shayan Md]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 22:31, Florian Fuchs  wrote:
>
> > Hi Odhiambo,
> >
> > Am 28.03.12 18:47, schrieb Odhiambo Washington:
> > > One more thing:
> > >
> > > In settings.py, I have this:
> > >
> > > REST_SERVER = 'http://192.168.40.252:8001'
> > >
> > > However, this doesn't seem to be respected when I do runserver:
> > >
> > > [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/postorius/dev_setup#
> > > python manage.py runserver
> > > Validating models...
> > >
> > > 0 errors found
> > > Django version 1.4, using settings 'dev_setup.settings'
> > > Development server is running at http://127.0.0.1:8000/
> > > Quit the server with CONTROL-C.
> > >
> > >
> > > [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash# sockstat -l | grep 800
> > > root python 77906 3  tcp4   127.0.0.1:8000
> > > *:*
> > > root python 14108 43 tcp4   127.0.0.1:8001
> > > *:*
> > >
> > > Since I am not using the server as a Desktop, I need a way to access it
> > > remotely, not via 127.0.0.1
> >
> > The REST_SERVER setting defines the location of Mailman's rest API
> > (which is frequently accessed by postorius), *not* the address of
> > postorius itself. The API can only be accessed from localhost, so the
> > setting has to be 'http://localhost:8001'.
> >
> > If you'd like to access postorius from a different machine as the one
> > you're running it on, that's no problem:
> >
> > Just run the development server like this and you're good to go:
> >
> > python manage.py runserver 192.168.x.xxx:8000
> >
> > (Don't do that on a machine that is exposed to the web though, since
> > Django's dev server is not meant to be run in a production environment.)
> >
> > Hope that helps!
> >
> > Florian
> >
> >
>
> My current quest is to see what MM3 web UI looks like, but it appears I am
> still way behind.
> I get these errors in the backend when I run posturious and try to access
> it:
>
> http://bit.ly/H2rDuW
>
Looks like you didn't start mailman server. Go through this[1] page to
setup mailman3.

[1]
http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running

>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
> Nairobi,KE
> +254733744121/+254722743223
> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
> I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
> ___
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
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>
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>
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] any interest in a new built-in web-archive? (i.e. pipermail replacement)

[David Jeske]

> - Stable URLs, RFC 5064 + X-Message-ID-Hash.
> See the above links.  If you can implement the
> `IArchiver.permalink()` method and ensure that even if
>  completely wiped and regenerated from the
> underlying raw messages, your URLs
>  will remain stable, I think you will have won. :)

This is really trivial to implement.

HOWEVER, it also has two notable problems.

First, if the sender-selected-messageID is trusted to make a unique-id and
permalink, then you are trusting senders, which IMO is a bad idea. What
happens when senders intentionally duplicate a message-id? It's pretty hard
to do anything smart when the listprocessor doesn't track messageids.

Second, when message-id uniqueness breaks, it's often not an isolated
instance, but a pattern of software doing bad things.

I prefer generating a trustably unique message IDs, even if those are only
used internally. I've used partial-content hashes in the past, but they
have their tradeoffs. They are hard to abuse, since matching a content hash
tends to mean supplying the same content, which kinda prevents abuse.
However, if the content is being changed at all (intentionally or not),
they breakdown.

---

I like your ideas about plug-in text-match-formatters. We have something
like that in the willowmail system, and it's pretty useful. (auto-linking
fedex tracking numbers in email is one example)

> - Merging of forums, archives, newsgroups, and IMAP.

You like to bite off the big ones eh? NNTP, then IMAP.

Does anyone even use fat-mail-clients anymore? Even the IMAP clients I've
used in recent years have been web-based. which is kinda already
unified with web-based archives since they are both in the browser. :)

Seriously though, what is the goal here?

I suppose I've had one thought over the years, which is that sometimes it
seems weird that I have all these mailing lists delivering into my mail
client. In theory my mail client could be 'faking' the whole thing with
NNTP to a known archive location.

However, that only works when online. If you have to do delivery to my
client, who cares if it's SMTP/NNTP/IMAP? I say pick the simplest one
(SMTP), which works with all mail clients, no changes, and allows you to
keep your messages when the archive goes down.

As for mail-client integration features... I like mail-client push-button
unsubscribe. I like the idea of making it trivial for mail clients to
recognize mailing lists posts and auto-configure filter-to-folder for them.
Neither of these require NNTP/IMAP in the archive though.
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: GNU Mailman 3.0 beta 1 and Postorius 1.0 alpha 1

[Odhiambo Washington]

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 22:31, Florian Fuchs  wrote:

> Hi Odhiambo,
>
> Am 28.03.12 18:47, schrieb Odhiambo Washington:
> > One more thing:
> >
> > In settings.py, I have this:
> >
> > REST_SERVER = 'http://192.168.40.252:8001'
> >
> > However, this doesn't seem to be respected when I do runserver:
> >
> > [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash/Tools/Mailman/MM3/postorius/dev_setup#
> > python manage.py runserver
> > Validating models...
> >
> > 0 errors found
> > Django version 1.4, using settings 'dev_setup.settings'
> > Development server is running at http://127.0.0.1:8000/
> > Quit the server with CONTROL-C.
> >
> >
> > [root@jaribu] /usr/home/wash# sockstat -l | grep 800
> > root python 77906 3  tcp4   127.0.0.1:8000
> > *:*
> > root python 14108 43 tcp4   127.0.0.1:8001
> > *:*
> >
> > Since I am not using the server as a Desktop, I need a way to access it
> > remotely, not via 127.0.0.1
>
> The REST_SERVER setting defines the location of Mailman's rest API
> (which is frequently accessed by postorius), *not* the address of
> postorius itself. The API can only be accessed from localhost, so the
> setting has to be 'http://localhost:8001'.
>
> If you'd like to access postorius from a different machine as the one
> you're running it on, that's no problem:
>
> Just run the development server like this and you're good to go:
>
> python manage.py runserver 192.168.x.xxx:8000
>
> (Don't do that on a machine that is exposed to the web though, since
> Django's dev server is not meant to be run in a production environment.)
>
> Hope that helps!
>
> Florian
>
>

My current quest is to see what MM3 web UI looks like, but it appears I am
still way behind.
I get these errors in the backend when I run posturious and try to access
it:

http://bit.ly/H2rDuW


-- 
Best regards,
Odhiambo WASHINGTON,
Nairobi,KE
+254733744121/+254722743223
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
<>___
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