[Mailman-Developers] Re: RFC: Config complexity [was: I have issue where it does not send ...]

[Abhilash Raj]

On Fri, May 1, 2020, at 9:20 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Moved from mailman-us...@mailman3.org.[1]
> 
> Mark Sapiro writes:
> 
>  > For what it's worth, The actual mail list management, i.e.
>  > receiving and delivering posts, only involves Mailman core and your
>  > mailman suite config file is only for Postorius and HyperKitty and
>  > doesn't affect Mailman core.
> 
> Aaargghh!  We should not be doing this to users.  If we're going to
> have a "mailman suite" project, there should be a single file for
> configuration of *all* installed components, at least for "vanilla"
> installations.  (It's bad enough that in many installations one has to
> configure the webserver three times, once in a front-end like Apache
> or nginx, once in a wsgi dispatcher like uWSGI, and once in Django.)

I wonder if an interactive setup wizard would be useful to help with such 
issues?

I have thought of being able to unify the configuration files, but except the 
email configuration, everything else seems to be separate for django and core. 
A couple of settings like API URL, user and password Postorius' own URL could 
be removed if we are add the ability of either component's to read other's 
configuration.

> 
> I understand that it may take a ton of work and backward
> incompatibility to implement this, or even make substantial progress,
> so (until I have time to do it myself) I'm not seriously suggesting
> it at this time.
> 
> It occurred to me that we could have a short comment at the top of
> every config file that lists all the config files and what they
> control, with one marked "(this file)".  Or something.  WDOT?

That is a good idea, except I don't know yet how to do that yet. Especially, 
settings.py is huge mess and is often the hardest for me to figure out a good 
story for. We should definitely add headers on top of each config file template 
with the details about them.

The fact that Django expects it's settings to be a "module" and not really a 
file system path makes things interesting. I did start working on mailman-web 
project to make things easier, especially, this[1] function & script. 

The idea is to get rid of django-admin and manage.py mess and just have a 
single mailman-web CLI which would be able to read the configs from 
`/etc/mailman3/settings.py` by just adding `/etc/mailman3` to `sys.path. 
Someday, I envision it to even provide uwsgi/gunicorn/some other WSGI (or even 
ASGI soon;) server so you could have something like `mailman-web start/stop` 
command which you could use as a systemd service like mailman core itself.

I do need to spend a bit more time on it to polish the solution. It is possibly 
something also which could read Mailman Core's configration and read the Email 
configs.

[1]: 
https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-web/-/blob/master/mailman_web/manage.py#L8

-- 
  thanks,
  Abhilash Raj (maxking)
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[Mailman-Developers] Re: RFC: Config complexity [was: I have issue where it does not send ...]

[Mark Sapiro]

On 5/2/20 4:53 AM, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
> 
> I fell foul of this myself to be honest and it took me a while to get it 
> right in my head.  One thing I was wondering is if the name of Mailman-Suite 
> is possibly misleading, especially as there used to be a Mailman-Bundler in 
> the past.  Something like Mailman Web Bootstrapper (though that possibly 
> needs refining).


I agree that the name of the mailman-suite project is wrong because all
it is is an example Django project for Postorius and Hyperkitty whereas
the mailman-suite-doc project is aptly named as it is the source for
 and does cover everything (so
far; maybe in the not too distant future we will have Affinity and
Empathy too). I was thinking along the lines of mailman-web or even
mailman-web-example. Something more in line with its README which says


> =
> Mailman Suite example project
> =
> 
> This example project is meant to give you a quick development setup for using
> both Hyperkitty and Postorius in a single Django instance, providing you a
> web interface for Mailman 3 configuration and web access to the archives.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Developers] Re: RFC: Config complexity [was: I have issue where it does not send ...]

[Andrew Hodgson]

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Mark Sapiro writes:

> > For what it's worth, The actual mail list management, i.e.
> > receiving and delivering posts, only involves Mailman core and your  > 
> > mailman suite config file is only for Postorius and HyperKitty and  > 
> > doesn't affect Mailman core.

>Aaargghh!  We should not be doing this to users.  If we're going to have a 
>"mailman suite" project, there should be a single file for configuration of 
>*all* installed components, at least for "vanilla"
>installations.  (It's bad enough that in many installations one has to 
>configure the webserver three times, once in a front-end like Apache or nginx, 
>once in a wsgi dispatcher like uWSGI, and once in Django.)

I fell foul of this myself to be honest and it took me a while to get it right 
in my head.  One thing I was wondering is if the name of Mailman-Suite is 
possibly misleading, especially as there used to be a Mailman-Bundler in the 
past.  Something like Mailman Web Bootstrapper (though that possibly needs 
refining).

Andrew. 
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