Re: [Mailman-Developers] Migrating Postorius and Hyperkitty to Python 3

[Abhilash Raj]

Update on this (sorry for the top post),

So we are going to move forward with Python 3 only and will be dropping
Python 2 support in next major release for each components.

I am (slowly) working through the test suite to improve the coverage so
that nothing breaks when we move to Python 3. There are already some
pending merge requests from Simon (thank you!) on both Django-Mailman 3
and Postorius. Once I am done with tests, I will dig in to review them
both and co-ordinate with Simon to land them.

thanks,
Abhilash

On Sun, 2017-10-01 at 14:12 -0700, Abhilash Raj wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Mailman uses Django web framework for the web based frontends,
> Postorius
> - The Official UI, and Hyperkitty - The official Archiver. They are
> both
> Django "apps" which means that they can be plugged into any other
> existing Django "project" (aka Django "installation") to work
> alongside
> other apps that people might be running.
> 
> Currently, both the Django apps we have are Python 2 only, we have
> talked about moving to Python 3 but we decided we want it to be
> bilingual (support both 2 & 3). The reason we decided that was
> because
> if people would want to embed Postorius & Hyperkitty in their
> installations, they need to be able to run it under whatever python
> versions they are using.
> 
> I want to revisit this assumption for being bilingual. Currently,
> there
> is no supported version of Django which doesn't support Python 3.
> Starting from v2.0, set to release in December 2017, Django is going
> to
> drop Python2 support. Now, that doesn't mean no one can run Django
> under
> Python2, 1.11 (LTS version) supports Python2 and will be supported
> probably till Python 2 is supported (April 2020 according to [1]).
> 
> I believe that our (limited) development efforts would be best
> utilized
> if we just drop the support for Python 2 in Postorius & Hyperkitty
> instead of trying to be bilingual. Any day one of our dependencies
> may
> decide to do the same, and we would have to then use Python 3 anyway.
> Also, dropping Python 2 support doesn't seem like a lot of pain for
> anyone, you just need another instance of Django running, which is
> not
> *that* hard using uwsgi (in Emperor mode). I believe most of our
> dependencies should support Python 3, or should have a good enough
> replacement if it doesn't.
> 
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> [1]: https://www.djangoproject.com/download/
> 

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Migrating Postorius and Hyperkitty to Python 3

[Barry Warsaw]

On Oct 9, 2017, at 03:55, Stephen J. Turnbull 
 wrote:
> 
> Do we need to worry about current distros?

Probably not, as you point out.

> We're still seeing plenty of questions about new installations of
> Mailman 2 on mailman-users.  Mailman 3 is still a double-diamond
> application.  As I wrote in a different thread, I don't think Mailman
> 3 is going to be ready for the mom & pop listowner for a while.  If
> versions of Centos (or whatever) don't support Python 3 by then, "let
> them run containers". :-)

Yep, and we have a good container story now, so I think that’s entirely viable. 
 There is work being done on Debian packaging for MM3 and I think having 
everything on Python 3 should make that story better too.  (Debian unstable 
does have Python3 Django).

-Barry



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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Migrating Postorius and Hyperkitty to Python 3

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Terri Oda writes:

 > What's the state for Centos? I think it was the last likely distro
 > we cared about with old python needs, but I'm not sure core
 > supports it at all any more.

Do we need to worry about current distros?

We're still seeing plenty of questions about new installations of
Mailman 2 on mailman-users.  Mailman 3 is still a double-diamond
application.  As I wrote in a different thread, I don't think Mailman
3 is going to be ready for the mom & pop listowner for a while.  If
versions of Centos (or whatever) don't support Python 3 by then, "let
them run containers". :-)

Steve


-- 
Associate Professor  Division of Policy and Planning Science
http://turnbull/sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/ Faculty of Systems and Information
Email: turnb...@sk.tsukuba.ac.jp   University of Tsukuba
Tel: 029-853-5175 Tennodai 1-1-1, Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Migrating Postorius and Hyperkitty to Python 3

[Terri Oda]

What's the state for Centos? I think it was the last likely distro we cared 
about with old python needs, but I'm not sure core supports it at all any more.


On October 1, 2017 2:12:46 PM PDT, Abhilash Raj  wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>Mailman uses Django web framework for the web based frontends,
>Postorius
>- The Official UI, and Hyperkitty - The official Archiver. They are
>both
>Django "apps" which means that they can be plugged into any other
>existing Django "project" (aka Django "installation") to work alongside
>other apps that people might be running.
>
>Currently, both the Django apps we have are Python 2 only, we have
>talked about moving to Python 3 but we decided we want it to be
>bilingual (support both 2 & 3). The reason we decided that was because
>if people would want to embed Postorius & Hyperkitty in their
>installations, they need to be able to run it under whatever python
>versions they are using.
>
>I want to revisit this assumption for being bilingual. Currently, there
>is no supported version of Django which doesn't support Python 3.
>Starting from v2.0, set to release in December 2017, Django is going to
>drop Python2 support. Now, that doesn't mean no one can run Django
>under
>Python2, 1.11 (LTS version) supports Python2 and will be supported
>probably till Python 2 is supported (April 2020 according to [1]).
>
>I believe that our (limited) development efforts would be best utilized
>if we just drop the support for Python 2 in Postorius & Hyperkitty
>instead of trying to be bilingual. Any day one of our dependencies may
>decide to do the same, and we would have to then use Python 3 anyway.
>Also, dropping Python 2 support doesn't seem like a lot of pain for
>anyone, you just need another instance of Django running, which is not
>*that* hard using uwsgi (in Emperor mode). I believe most of our
>dependencies should support Python 3, or should have a good enough
>replacement if it doesn't.
>
>
>Thoughts?
>
>[1]: https://www.djangoproject.com/download/
>
>-- 
>  Abhilash Raj
>  maxk...@asynchronous.in
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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Migrating Postorius and Hyperkitty to Python 3

[Abhilash Raj]

On Sun, Oct 8, 2017, at 02:39 PM, Terri Oda wrote:
> What's the state for Centos? I think it was the last likely distro we
> cared about with old python needs, but I'm not sure core supports it
> at all any more.
I am not sure about the state of CentOS, but Core doesn't support Python
2 anymore. So, in theory, if you need to run Mailman 3, you need Python
3 anyway as the API isn't meant to be exposed outside of a single host.
Also, I don't know about the state of containers support in distros, but
with containers, there is always an option to run Python3 even if their
distro doesn't support.

> 
> 
> On October 1, 2017 2:12:46 PM PDT, Abhilash Raj
>  wrote:>> Hi All,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mailman uses Django web framework for the web based frontends,
>> Postorius
 - The Official UI, and Hyperkitty - The official Archiver. They
>>   are both
 Django "apps" which means that they can be plugged into any other
 existing Django "project" (aka Django "installation") to work
>> alongside
 other apps that people might be running.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Currently, both the Django apps we have are Python 2 only, we have
 talked about moving to Python 3 but we decided we want it to be
>> 
>> bilingual (support both 2 & 3). The reason we decided that was
>> because
 if people would want to embed Postorius & Hyperkitty in their
>> 
>> installations, they need to be able to run it under whatever python
 versions they are using.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I want to revisit this assumption for being bilingual.
>> Currently, there
 is no supported version of Django which doesn't support Python 3.
 Starting from v2.0, set to release in December 2017, Django is
>> going to
 drop Python2 support. Now, that doesn't mean no one can run
>> Django under
 Python2, 1.11 (LTS version) supports Python2 and will be supported
 probably till Python 2 is supported (April 2020 according to [1]).
 
>> 
>> I believe that our (limited) development efforts would be best
>> utilized
 if we just drop the support for Python 2 in Postorius & Hyperkitty
 instead of trying to be bilingual. Any day one of our
>> dependencies may
 decide to do the same, and we would have to then use Python 3 anyway.
 Also, dropping Python 2 support doesn't seem like a lot of pain for
 anyone, you just need another instance of Django running,
>> which is not
 *that* hard using uwsgi (in Emperor mode). I believe most of our
 dependencies should support Python 3, or should have a good enough
 replacement if it doesn't.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thoughts?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [1]: https://www.djangoproject.com/download/
>> 

--
  Abhilash Raj
  maxk...@asynchronous.in


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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Migrating Postorius and Hyperkitty to Python 3

[Simon Hanna]

I'm in favor of dropping Python2. All distros have Python3 and afaik all 
dependencies are Python3 ready. So I don't see a reason why anybody 
would want to stick to Python2, especially since core is Python3 only...

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