Re: [Mailman-Developers] RE: Listserv Maximum

2003-01-19 Thread Fil
> ts> Is there a listserv maximum number?
> 
> I don't understand the question.  Is there a maximum number of what?
> lists?  members per list?  postings per list?
> 
> There are no artificial limits on any of these.  There may be
> effective limits based on your system and network resources.

The first limit you hit when sending to a big list with many old addresses
(in my case, a list that was never properly cleaned, for lack of software
able to clean it nicely as MM does now : ~150K subscribers, ~40K bounces) is
the BounceRunner sucking up all your processing power and locking up the
database.

You can imagine that bounce processing is something that doesn't really need
to happen in *real time*, ie when the server is sollicited by sending the
mail. However, if you just collect the bounces and wait before processing
them, you end up with high disk space requirements.

So I'd suggest, that we shoud 

1) pre-process bounces without accessing the list db : for each bounce, read
   the message, extract (when possible) the email address and list name, and
   write the email address into a listname-bounces.db ; then discard the
   message

2) when the mail server seems to get colder (the latest lock on it is older
   than one or two minutes, or any other activity indicator), load the list
   (w/o locking) and calculate the bounce scores of the bouncers you have
   seen, and so on. Then only lock-load it, write the changes, and save.

I'm also thinking:

- should we/how could we do the preprocessing on another machine?
- could Mailman order its send queue by putting the non-bouncers first, thus
  shortening the delivery time for non-bouncers and enhancing the system
  response?

-- Fil


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[Mailman-Developers] [ mailman-Bugs-670475 ] Pipermail archives and attachments

2003-01-19 Thread SourceForge.net
Bugs item #670475, was opened at 2003-01-18 23:22
You can respond by visiting: 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=670475&group_id=103

Category: None
Group: None
Status: Open
Resolution: None
Priority: 5
Submitted By: Jan Siml (janjules)
Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Summary: Pipermail archives and attachments

Initial Comment:
I have a problem with the archives produced by pipermail version 
0.09. If the default language for the list is english, everything works 
fine and pipermail produces an archive with correct 
../attachments/.. urls. Like this:

Skipped content of type 
multipart/alternative-- next part --
A non-text attachment was 
scrubbed...
Name: =?iso-8859-
1?Q?Zwischenpr=FCfung.doc?=
Type: 
application/msword
Size: 720700 bytes
Desc: not 
available
Url : 
http://dadada.de/mailman/private/test/attachments/20030113/3ee49d72/iso-
8859-1QZwischenprFCfung.dot

But if i choose german as 
default language, pipermail produces an archive with no 
../attachments/.. urls. Like this:

Übersprungener Inhalt 
vom Typ multipart/alternative-- nächster Teil --

)Ãj×¢jxZž¢´§Öz|.× 
zÇ!ç]z»Cj×¢?©žŠÊ<óŸuAœ"±È^žš

Where is the cause 
for this behavoir?

--

Comment By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Date: 2003-01-19 13:59

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=184577

I believe this is a duplicate of bug #669081 ?
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=669081&group_id=103

--

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[Mailman-Developers] [ mailman-Bugs-669081 ] Major attachment handling bug!

2003-01-19 Thread SourceForge.net
Bugs item #669081, was opened at 2003-01-16 15:46
You can respond by visiting: 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=669081&group_id=103

Category: Pipermail
Group: 2.1 (stable)
Status: Open
Resolution: None
Priority: 9
Submitted By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Assigned to: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw)
Summary: Major attachment handling bug!

Initial Comment:
Attachments are not handled correctly.
Attached to this bug report is an example email in a mbox file. 
How to reproduce:
1. create a list called "clasohlson"
2. copy this mbox file to the archive mbox file
3. run bin/arch for the list
4. look at the resulting archive

I will post a followup which will contain the resulting html file I got when 
doing this.


--

>Comment By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Date: 2003-01-19 14:18

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=184577

Applied cleanly, and now there is only one problem left! :D
I believe Mailman is supplying the wrong MIME type for the .doc file when 
the archive is private. Thus, the webbrowser just displays the raw file 
instead of launching an application that can handle it correctly. I changed 
the archive to public, and the file was displayed correctly. 
Thanks for your quick fix so far, this has really helped a lot! (The users of 
the particular list were depending heavily on the archive for the list, and 
considered the list completely unuseable without attachments available in 
the archive.)

--

Comment By: Tokio Kikuchi (tkikuchi)
Date: 2003-01-19 01:57

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=67709

I have updated the patch. Please try.
(Patch ID 670167)



--

Comment By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Date: 2003-01-18 17:54

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=184577

Sorry, forget my last comment, the attachment was just fine. My mistake.
But attachment naming is still a problem.

--

Comment By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Date: 2003-01-18 17:49

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=184577

Check also the attached "attachment_error.mbox". It contains a single message, 
with a MS Word document that becomes completely scrambled after going 
through pipermail...

--

Comment By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Date: 2003-01-18 17:18

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=184577

Applied without problems, but gave me the following error when running 
bin/arch (not on the mbox I submitted, though):

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/arch", line 187, in ?
main()
  File "bin/arch", line 175, in main
archiver.processUnixMailbox(fp, start, end)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 544, in 
processUnixMailbox
m = mbox.next()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/mailbox.py", line 33, in next
return self.factory(_Subfile(self.fp, start, stop))
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 79, in scrubber
return mailbox.scrub(msg)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 99, in scrub
return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 145, in process
cs = csre.search(part['content-type'])
TypeError: expected string or buffer

The offending message had no "Content-Type:"  field in its header. (It was, 
of course, produced by a Microsoft product... ;)

Some issues from my earlier subimtted example that still needs to be fixed:
1. The attachment file name still becomes ".dot", not ".doc" as it should 
have been.  Also, the reported size is wrong (larger) than the actual file.
2.  "The attachment was scrubbed"  part in the archive web page is still sort 
of "attached" to the message itself, e.g. to the email signature of the user 
that posted the message.

--

Comment By: Tokio Kikuchi (tkikuchi)
Date: 2003-01-18 07:03

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=67709

Please try this patch.
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=300103&aid=670167&group_id=103
(Patch ID 670167)


--

Comment By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Date: 2003-01-16 17:29

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=184577

-changing priority and assignment-

--

Comment By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Date: 2003-01-16 16:31

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=184577

And here is the html file in english. Notice the difference. Lots of garbage (also 
called mojibake?)
;)

--

Comment By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Date: 2003-01-16 16:28

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=184577

Here is the generated html page for the email, if list language is set to 
norwegian.

-

[Mailman-Developers] [ mailman-Bugs-670475 ] Pipermail archives and attachments

2003-01-19 Thread SourceForge.net
Bugs item #670475, was opened at 2003-01-18 23:22
You can respond by visiting: 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=670475&group_id=103

>Category: Pipermail
Group: None
>Status: Closed
>Resolution: Duplicate
Priority: 5
Submitted By: Jan Siml (janjules)
Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Summary: Pipermail archives and attachments

Initial Comment:
I have a problem with the archives produced by pipermail version 
0.09. If the default language for the list is english, everything works 
fine and pipermail produces an archive with correct 
../attachments/.. urls. Like this:

Skipped content of type 
multipart/alternative-- next part --
A non-text attachment was 
scrubbed...
Name: =?iso-8859-
1?Q?Zwischenpr=FCfung.doc?=
Type: 
application/msword
Size: 720700 bytes
Desc: not 
available
Url : 
http://dadada.de/mailman/private/test/attachments/20030113/3ee49d72/iso-
8859-1QZwischenprFCfung.dot

But if i choose german as 
default language, pipermail produces an archive with no 
../attachments/.. urls. Like this:

Übersprungener Inhalt 
vom Typ multipart/alternative-- nächster Teil --

)Ãj×¢jxZž¢´§Öz|.× 
zÇ!ç]z»Cj×¢?©žŠÊ<óŸuAœ"±È^žš

Where is the cause 
for this behavoir?

--

>Comment By: Jan Siml (janjules)
Date: 2003-01-19 15:13

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=151422

Yes. it seems to be a duplicate. Thanks for the advice!

--

Comment By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Date: 2003-01-19 13:59

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=184577

I believe this is a duplicate of bug #669081 ?
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=669081&group_id=103

--

You can respond by visiting: 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=670475&group_id=103

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[Mailman-Developers] [ mailman-Bugs-670475 ] Pipermail archives and attachments

2003-01-19 Thread SourceForge.net
Bugs item #670475, was opened at 2003-01-18 23:22
You can respond by visiting: 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=670475&group_id=103

Category: Pipermail
Group: None
>Status: Deleted
Resolution: Duplicate
Priority: 5
Submitted By: Jan Siml (janjules)
Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Summary: Pipermail archives and attachments

Initial Comment:
I have a problem with the archives produced by pipermail version 
0.09. If the default language for the list is english, everything works 
fine and pipermail produces an archive with correct 
../attachments/.. urls. Like this:

Skipped content of type 
multipart/alternative-- next part --
A non-text attachment was 
scrubbed...
Name: =?iso-8859-
1?Q?Zwischenpr=FCfung.doc?=
Type: 
application/msword
Size: 720700 bytes
Desc: not 
available
Url : 
http://dadada.de/mailman/private/test/attachments/20030113/3ee49d72/iso-
8859-1QZwischenprFCfung.dot

But if i choose german as 
default language, pipermail produces an archive with no 
../attachments/.. urls. Like this:

Übersprungener Inhalt 
vom Typ multipart/alternative-- nächster Teil --

)Ãj×¢jxZž¢´§Öz|.× 
zÇ!ç]z»Cj×¢?©žŠÊ<óŸuAœ"±È^žš

Where is the cause 
for this behavoir?

--

Comment By: Jan Siml (janjules)
Date: 2003-01-19 15:13

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=151422

Yes. it seems to be a duplicate. Thanks for the advice!

--

Comment By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Date: 2003-01-19 13:59

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=184577

I believe this is a duplicate of bug #669081 ?
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=669081&group_id=103

--

You can respond by visiting: 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=670475&group_id=103

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[Mailman-Developers] [ mailman-Bugs-669081 ] Major attachment handling bug!

2003-01-19 Thread SourceForge.net
Bugs item #669081, was opened at 2003-01-16 15:46
You can respond by visiting: 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=669081&group_id=103

Category: Pipermail
Group: 2.1 (stable)
Status: Open
Resolution: None
Priority: 9
Submitted By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Assigned to: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw)
Summary: Major attachment handling bug!

Initial Comment:
Attachments are not handled correctly.
Attached to this bug report is an example email in a mbox file. 
How to reproduce:
1. create a list called "clasohlson"
2. copy this mbox file to the archive mbox file
3. run bin/arch for the list
4. look at the resulting archive

I will post a followup which will contain the resulting html file I got when 
doing this.


--

Comment By: Jan Siml (janjules)
Date: 2003-01-19 15:45

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=151422

After applying the patch it still doesn't work. I deleted the directory of the 
archive and rebuild the archive by using bin/arch. But even now, i got the 
same: no attachment, only 
")Ãj×¢jxZž¢´§Öz|.× zÇ!ç]z»Cj×¢?©žŠÊ<óŸuAœ"±È^žš". Did i 
forget anything to do?

--

Comment By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Date: 2003-01-19 14:18

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=184577

Applied cleanly, and now there is only one problem left! :D
I believe Mailman is supplying the wrong MIME type for the .doc file when 
the archive is private. Thus, the webbrowser just displays the raw file 
instead of launching an application that can handle it correctly. I changed 
the archive to public, and the file was displayed correctly. 
Thanks for your quick fix so far, this has really helped a lot! (The users of 
the particular list were depending heavily on the archive for the list, and 
considered the list completely unuseable without attachments available in 
the archive.)

--

Comment By: Tokio Kikuchi (tkikuchi)
Date: 2003-01-19 01:57

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=67709

I have updated the patch. Please try.
(Patch ID 670167)



--

Comment By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Date: 2003-01-18 17:54

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=184577

Sorry, forget my last comment, the attachment was just fine. My mistake.
But attachment naming is still a problem.

--

Comment By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Date: 2003-01-18 17:49

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=184577

Check also the attached "attachment_error.mbox". It contains a single message, 
with a MS Word document that becomes completely scrambled after going 
through pipermail...

--

Comment By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Date: 2003-01-18 17:18

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=184577

Applied without problems, but gave me the following error when running 
bin/arch (not on the mbox I submitted, though):

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/arch", line 187, in ?
main()
  File "bin/arch", line 175, in main
archiver.processUnixMailbox(fp, start, end)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 544, in 
processUnixMailbox
m = mbox.next()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/mailbox.py", line 33, in next
return self.factory(_Subfile(self.fp, start, stop))
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 79, in scrubber
return mailbox.scrub(msg)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 99, in scrub
return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 145, in process
cs = csre.search(part['content-type'])
TypeError: expected string or buffer

The offending message had no "Content-Type:"  field in its header. (It was, 
of course, produced by a Microsoft product... ;)

Some issues from my earlier subimtted example that still needs to be fixed:
1. The attachment file name still becomes ".dot", not ".doc" as it should 
have been.  Also, the reported size is wrong (larger) than the actual file.
2.  "The attachment was scrubbed"  part in the archive web page is still sort 
of "attached" to the message itself, e.g. to the email signature of the user 
that posted the message.

--

Comment By: Tokio Kikuchi (tkikuchi)
Date: 2003-01-18 07:03

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=67709

Please try this patch.
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=300103&aid=670167&group_id=103
(Patch ID 670167)


--

Comment By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)
Date: 2003-01-16 17:29

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=184577

-changing priority and assignment-

--

Comment By: Daniel Buchmann (avalon)

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Sourceforge notifications consideredharmful

2003-01-19 Thread Barry A. Warsaw

Ok folks, thanks for the votes (one day we'll use Marilyn's eVote :).

I've just created mailman-coders and pointed the trackers at that
list.  Feel free to subscribe .

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-coders

As for summaries, I'm all for them, if someone else can implement it.
I don't have the time.

-Barry

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] "Invite" vs. autoresponders

2003-01-19 Thread Barry A. Warsaw

> "JWB" == John W Baxter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

SB> I've recently discovered that vacation autoresponders will
SB> subscribe recipients to Mailman lists when they get
SB> "invited".

JWB> Well, there are different needs for different Mailman sites.
JWB> If you have to convince your provider that every address in
JWB> your list truly wanted to be there, it's "unhandy" for there
JWB> to be such a simple example of involuntary subscription,
JWB> which the provider can demonstrate at will.

Exactly what constitutes "proof" from a legal context would be an
interesting discussion to have.  At the spam conference, Jon Praed
gave a great talk about the spammers he's successfully sued, and the
fact that they might be going after bulk email software venders.

Now, clearly Mailman has legitimate uses, but I still think it would
be interesting to know what Mailman can do better to create logs that
would meet some legal standard of opt-in.

-Barry

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